Run stuffer vs. QB

[T-Long]

After reading a bunch of posts, I see the board is very divided in terms of whether or not to go with a run stuffer or try to land that franchise QB. Since the Bills are picking third, let's take a look at what is available.

Granted, if Luck comes out, he has got to be the #1 pick no matter if it's Carolina or a team to trade up. I honestly don't see Nix trading up to the top pick, so let's scratch that from the equation.

Here is how I see the top 3 panning out.

1. Car: Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2. Den: Patrick Petersen CB LSU
3. Buf:

The Bills have a chance to get either Bowers, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn or one of the other 2 QB's.

If we want to help the run defense, then the pick is Fairley or Dareus. If we want a better pass rush, we should take Bowers or Quinn. If you don't believe Fitz is a franchise quarterback, then they need to take a gamble and take their highest rated QB of the 2 (Mallet or Newton).

I for one am not a fan of Mallet as a Bill. But I am intrigued by Newton's athleticisim.

Although my brain is telling me to go DL, I really want them to roll the dice and try to get that QB. You never draft this high very often and this is the place you get a QB.

So, I am going to take Cam Newton with this pick.....for now. I know this will piss off a lot of people, but excite a lot of people as well.

Ok, let me have it.

[EDS]

If Luck is available the Bills HAVE to take him. If not, they need to concentrate on run defense, where the pick will depend on the defense they are running.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

From what I can see, the run stuffing problem is not on our D-tackles. It's on the linebackers.

I saw time and again today the linebackers unable to get to the ball carrier or not fast enough to stretch-out, forcing our DBs to be the first ones doing the contact with ball carrier.

For what it is worth we have a near Pro-bowl season from our nose tackle.

Poz is not contacted by the Bills yet about an extension. and yet he's out best linebacker. that tells you something.

[cbatl32]

I am with you on Newton. If Nix has a franchise grade on him, then that has to be the pick.

[justasportsfan]

If Luck is there (or Newton is perceived as a franchise qb by the FO) you take him. we an find stuffers via FA.

[casdhf]

DTs take a few years to be effective. Lets keep this in mind people. And before it's said, there isn't a Suh in this draft.

[psubills62]

I think Denver will be choosing between Peterson and Dareus. I could easily see us taking whichever one is left. If Luck comes out, Buffalo should do whatever they can (within reason) to move up. If not, stay at 3, choose from one of Dareus, Peterson, and Green (at this point, I'd say in that order).

[tomz]

From what I can see, the run stuffing problem is not on our D-tackles. It's on the linebackers.

I saw time and again today the linebackers unable to get to the ball carrier or not fast enough to stretch-out, forcing our DBs to be the first ones doing the contact with ball carrier.

For what it is worth we have a near Pro-bowl season from our nose tackle.

Poz is not contacted by the Bills yet about an extension. and yet he's out best linebacker. that tells you something.


I do not let the LBs and d-line players off the hook---we rarely seem to clog the middle and our LBs always seemed sealed off inside or otherwise pushed out of the play--but this is a complex problem.

For all of the comments about our LBs and d-line, nobody seems to mention that our corners are horrible in run support. I think back to the days of Antoine Winfield and recall him making stops as runners tried to turn the corner at least once or twice per game.

Also, there was a thread a couple days ago about Kyle Williams as not the right type of NT for the 3-4. I think that is a big part of the issue as well. We need control of the middle of the line to keep the trash off the LBs.

[Mahdi]

After reading a bunch of posts, I see the board is very divided in terms of whether or not to go with a run stuffer or try to land that franchise QB. Since the Bills are picking third, let's take a look at what is available.

Granted, if Luck comes out, he has got to be the #1 pick no matter if it's Carolina or a team to trade up. I honestly don't see Nix trading up to the top pick, so let's scratch that from the equation.

Here is how I see the top 3 panning out.

1. Car: Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2. Den: Patrick Petersen CB LSU
3. Buf:

The Bills have a chance to get either Bowers, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn or one of the other 2 QB's.

If we want to help the run defense, then the pick is Fairley or Dareus. If we want a better pass rush, we should take Bowers or Quinn. If you don't believe Fitz is a franchise quarterback, then they need to take a gamble and take their highest rated QB of the 2 (Mallet or Newton).

I for one am not a fan of Mallet as a Bill. But I am intrigued by Newton's athleticisim.

Although my brain is telling me to go DL, I really want them to roll the dice and try to get that QB. You never draft this high very often and this is the place you get a QB.

So, I am going to take Cam Newton with this pick.....for now. I know this will piss off a lot of people, but excite a lot of people as well.

Ok, let me have it.
Run stuffer is never an option in the top 10. A player in the top 10 is skill position, pass rusher, OT, CB, phenomenal S.

If we take any of the DL players it will be related to their pass rush abilities not run stuff.

If Fairley, Dareus and Bowers weren't good pass rushers they would not even be in consideration for top 10 status.

We have to keep in mind that we have Dewan Edwards who was have a great year and Carrington who was coming on. As well as S. Johnson and Stroud.

I really think the pick will be Newton or Peterson.


Also, IMO, it is the LBs who are the problem on our run defense. They never shoot the gaps even when you see KW in the backfield and doing his job you never see the LBs shooting through to make plays at or behind the LoS. They also are horrible at keeping contain.

I thought Poz was improving but looks like he is just not a good run stuffer. I think our second and third round picks will include ILBs.

[ServoBillieves]

With Carrington, Troup, Williams, and Edwards, I wouldn't be surprised if run stuffer is taken in FA and other needs are addressed early in the draft.

We haven't cut anyone yet, we haven't signed anybody, and we won't know til April what we need...

But it's fun ain't it?

[Spiderweb]

From what I can see, the run stuffing problem is not on our D-tackles. It's on the linebackers.

I saw time and again today the linebackers unable to get to the ball carrier or not fast enough to stretch-out, forcing our DBs to be the first ones doing the contact with ball carrier.

For what it is worth we have a near Pro-bowl season from our nose tackle.

Poz is not contacted by the Bills yet about an extension. and yet he's out best linebacker. that tells you something.

Disagree a bit there Ghz... Our DT have to be hugely successful penetraters (they're not), or they have to gobble up blockers and space (they don't). While I agree our LB's are very poor overall, it would look much better if they didn't have a Center, Guard or Tackle clinging to them every play.

Poz will be contacted.

[YardRat]

If Luck and Peterson are gone, Dareus is the pick.

[Michael82]

I'd take Dareus. He's great at stopping the run and a solid pass rusher too.

[TacklingDummy]

425 points allowed
32nd rushing yards allowed

[Oaf]

I hope to nab LBs in rounds 2 and 3, allowing for a skill position/QB at #3. Another 5-tech DE would do well for us too.

[jimbohastle51]

we just spent a high second round pick on a DT in troup and spend a 3rd rounder on carrington as well as gave dwan edwards a sizeable contract just a year ago. and kyle williams isnt going anywhere so i do not being a DL is going to be the pick. if cam newton is there i believe gailey and nix will take him based on the fact that he fits gaileys MO for qb play. if not newton i believe we trade back and take a BPA... probably a T or a DB. remember no way florence comes back and mcgee stays. it is one or the other with the size of the contract that florence will get. he will arguabley be the best corner on the market and wont be coming back for 3 million a year.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

we just spent a high second round pick on a DT in troup and spend a 3rd rounder on carrington as well as gave dwan edwards a sizeable contract just a year ago. and kyle williams isnt going anywhere so i do not being a DL is going to be the pick. if cam newton is there i believe gailey and nix will take him based on the fact that he fits gaileys MO for qb play. if not newton i believe we trade back and take a BPA... probably a T or a DB. remember no way florence comes back and mcgee stays. it is one or the other with the size of the contract that florence will get. he will arguabley be the best corner on the market and wont be coming back for 3 million a year.

dude relax, florence can be replaced too.

[djjimkelly]

all i know this pick needs to be a qb or a front seven guy

i dont care who it is luck newton or one of the dline guys

as long as its not a skill position guy or db

[Night Train]

It's an interesting decision with plenty of time to grade out the candidates.

Quinn didn't play this last season, so I'd be very skeptical of him. I see a DL like Dareus or Bowers as the favorite with Newton being the one QB that the Bills would consider. When Newton put the entire team on his shoulders at Alabama and won that game, he erased all doubt about his abilty in crunch time. That was sensational beyond words. Mallet came apart in a close game with Alabama, forcing throws and losing his poise.

Mallet reminds me far too much of Bledsoe. Smallball in crunch time.

It may come down to Dareus or Newton with Dareus being the early favorite.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

dareus has a first step similar to bruce with incredible size and power... he would be a no brainer although trading up for luck or taking newton is tempting. i think nix makes a decision that he wants to build a great d with a solid qb. i think if dareus is the pick nix wants to go after the 2000 ravens/85 bears model....

[NOT THE DUDE...]

keep in mind about dareus he missed the first two games because of suspension, and then hurt his ankle. he wasnt 100 percent at all until the bowl game and he dominated...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

teams that won or went to a superbowl with a decent qb and great d plus running game... bascially the kick your ass style...

86 giants, early 90s cowboys, 94 chargers, 00 ravens, 06 bears, 91-87-82 redskins, 02 bucs, 07 giants, 90 giants, 95 steelers, 99 titans, 85 bears, 83 raiders, 81 eagles, 78 rams, 72 dolphins...

its possible but you have to draft d and draft really well plus add a few studs in fa...

[jimbohastle51]

dude relax, florence can be replaced too.

i am relaxed, just stating opinion. there isnt a corner on this team that isnt replacable.

[psubills62]

dude relax, florence can be replaced too.

Little Johnny telling people to relax? Huh...

[X-Era]

After reading a bunch of posts, I see the board is very divided in terms of whether or not to go with a run stuffer or try to land that franchise QB. Since the Bills are picking third, let's take a look at what is available.

Granted, if Luck comes out, he has got to be the #1 pick no matter if it's Carolina or a team to trade up. I honestly don't see Nix trading up to the top pick, so let's scratch that from the equation.

Here is how I see the top 3 panning out.

1. Car: Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2. Den: Patrick Petersen CB LSU
3. Buf:

The Bills have a chance to get either Bowers, Fairley, Dareus, Quinn or one of the other 2 QB's.

If we want to help the run defense, then the pick is Fairley or Dareus. If we want a better pass rush, we should take Bowers or Quinn. If you don't believe Fitz is a franchise quarterback, then they need to take a gamble and take their highest rated QB of the 2 (Mallet or Newton).

I for one am not a fan of Mallet as a Bill. But I am intrigued by Newton's athleticisim.

Although my brain is telling me to go DL, I really want them to roll the dice and try to get that QB. You never draft this high very often and this is the place you get a QB.

So, I am going to take Cam Newton with this pick.....for now. I know this will piss off a lot of people, but excite a lot of people as well.

Ok, let me have it.As with any position at any point in the draft, I think it will all hinge on how you rank whom for a fit for the Bills.

My personal opinion is that I would spend the 3rd pick on Dareus or Bowers, but I'd also think about a QB at that spot depending on if any of them become worth that rank and fit the Bills be the time the draft rolls around.

I guess thats a backward way of saying it's too early to determine yet.

[Ickybaluky]

86 giants, early 90s cowboys, 94 chargers, 00 ravens, 06 bears, 91-87-82 redskins, 02 bucs, 07 giants, 90 giants, 95 steelers, 99 titans, 85 bears, 83 raiders, 81 eagles, 78 rams, 72 dolphins...

I'll give you Stan Humpries, a 6th round pick that led one of the worst Super Bowl teams ever, Ron Jaworski (although he made a Pro Bowl), Pat Haden (who also made a Pro Bowl), and Jeff Hostetler, but...

These don't fit your profile:

- 86 Giants: Phil Simms was a 1st round pick (7th overall)
- 90's Cowboys: Troy Aikman was the first overall pick and is in the HOF
- 00 Ravens: People forget that Trent Dilfer was a 1st round pick (6th overall)
- 06 Bears: Rex Grossman was a 1st round pick (22nd overall)
- 91 Redskins: Mark Rypien was a much better player than you realize. He made 2 Pro Bowls
- 87 Redskins: Doug Williams was a 1st round pick (17th overall)
- 82 Redskins: Again, Theisman was much better than you realize, he also made 2 Pro Bowls
- 02 Bucs: Again, a pretty good player who made 2 Pro Bowls.
- 07 Giants: Eli Manning was a the first overall pick
- 99 Titans: Steve McNair was a 1st round pick (3rd overall), made 3 Pro Bowls and was an NFL MVP
- 85 Bears: Jim McMahon was a 1st round pick (5th overall) and made a Pro Bowl
- 83 Raiders: Jim Plunkett was the first overall pick
- 72 Dolphins: 1st round pick (4th overall), HOF'er and 6-time pro bowler

Most of those teams had QBs with first round pedigree. They were good QBs, you just don't know how good they were. If anything, you show that in most cases you need a talented QB to make the Super Bowl.

The inclusion of Troy Aikman and Bob Greise, both in the HOF, on that list is laughable.

[YardRat]

I'll give you Stan Humpries, a 6th round pick that led one of the worst Super Bowl teams ever, Ron Jaworski (although he made a Pro Bowl), Pat Haden (who also made a Pro Bowl), and Jeff Hostetler, but...

These don't fit your profile:

- 86 Giants: Phil Simms was a 1st round pick (7th overall)
- 90's Cowboys: Troy Aikman was the first overall pick and is in the HOF
- 00 Ravens: People forget that Trent Dilfer was a 1st round pick (6th overall)
- 06 Bears: Rex Grossman was a 1st round pick (22nd overall)
- 91 Redskins: Mark Rypien was a much better player than you realize. He made 2 Pro Bowls
- 87 Redskins: Doug Williams was a 1st round pick (17th overall)
- 82 Redskins: Again, Theisman was much better than you realize, he also made 2 Pro Bowls
- 02 Bucs: Again, a pretty good player who made 2 Pro Bowls.
- 07 Giants: Eli Manning was a the first overall pick
- 99 Titans: Steve McNair was a 1st round pick (3rd overall), made 3 Pro Bowls and was an NFL MVP
- 85 Bears: Jim McMahon was a 1st round pick (5th overall) and made a Pro Bowl
- 83 Raiders: Jim Plunkett was the first overall pick
- 72 Dolphins: 1st round pick (4th overall), HOF'er and 6-time pro bowler

Most of those teams had QBs with first round pedigree. They were good QBs, you just don't know how good they were. If anything, you show that in most cases you need a talented QB to make the Super Bowl.

The inclusion of Troy Aikman and Bob Greise, both in the HOF, on that list is laughable.

Every one of those teams got there or won with a dominant defense, dominant o-line, or both.

Pick one that didn't.

[madness]

Bills fans won't like this but...

A.J. Green will be a Buffalo Bill next year.

[tampabay25690]

Bills fans won't like this but...

A.J. Green will be a Buffalo Bill next year.

If we draft Green we drafted the Best WR in the draft.
I don't think we will do that though.........
Look how good our Front office did with Donald Jones, David Nelson, and Roosevelt......

I think they are going to really look at QB if they don't like what they see they will draft either Peterson our DL......

I don't like drafting DL that early because they usually need a year or 2 to grasp the NFL.....

[psubills62]

Bills fans won't like this but...

A.J. Green will be a Buffalo Bill next year.

I wouldn't be surprised. Then again, I also wouldn't be surprised to see them avoid WR this entire draft. If they don't take one in rounds 1 or 2, I doubt they take one at all.

I'd say Peterson, Dareus, and Green are all distinct possibilities. All depends on how the Bills rank those three, imo.

[madness]

If we draft Green we drafted the Best WR in the draft.
I don't think we will do that though.........
Look how good our Front office did with Donald Jones, David Nelson, and Roosevelt......

I think they are going to really look at QB if they don't like what they see they will draft either Peterson our DL......

I don't like drafting DL that early because they usually need a year or 2 to grasp the NFL.....

Yes, roster fringe WR's did step up but a lot of that had to do with Fitz who will be here next here and does a tremendous job at spreading the ball around. Gailey could strike fear into DC's with Evans, Johnson & Green. Parrish comes back in the slot and you pick the cream of the crop in Jones, Nelson, Roosevelt with a raw Easley in the mix and the Bills could legitimately have one of the best WR core going forth.

Green is as blue-chip as they get and has done nothing but produced since he stepped on the field no matter who his QB is. I believe Nix is going to have a very tough time passing up on Green especially when Cincy will jump all over him in heartbeat.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I'll give you Stan Humpries, a 6th round pick that led one of the worst Super Bowl teams ever, Ron Jaworski (although he made a Pro Bowl), Pat Haden (who also made a Pro Bowl), and Jeff Hostetler, but...

These don't fit your profile:

- 86 Giants: Phil Simms was a 1st round pick (7th overall)
- 90's Cowboys: Troy Aikman was the first overall pick and is in the HOF
- 00 Ravens: People forget that Trent Dilfer was a 1st round pick (6th overall)
- 06 Bears: Rex Grossman was a 1st round pick (22nd overall)
- 91 Redskins: Mark Rypien was a much better player than you realize. He made 2 Pro Bowls
- 87 Redskins: Doug Williams was a 1st round pick (17th overall)
- 82 Redskins: Again, Theisman was much better than you realize, he also made 2 Pro Bowls
- 02 Bucs: Again, a pretty good player who made 2 Pro Bowls.
- 07 Giants: Eli Manning was a the first overall pick
- 99 Titans: Steve McNair was a 1st round pick (3rd overall), made 3 Pro Bowls and was an NFL MVP
- 85 Bears: Jim McMahon was a 1st round pick (5th overall) and made a Pro Bowl
- 83 Raiders: Jim Plunkett was the first overall pick
- 72 Dolphins: 1st round pick (4th overall), HOF'er and 6-time pro bowler

Most of those teams had QBs with first round pedigree. They were good QBs, you just don't know how good they were. If anything, you show that in most cases you need a talented QB to make the Super Bowl.

The inclusion of Troy Aikman and Bob Greise, both in the HOF, on that list is laughable.


obviously you didnt watch the early cowboys who ran iso every ****ing play and then threw a out to irvin.... td... griese in the superbowl threw the ball 7 times....

aikman was a glorified edwards. look at his stats, he checked down lots too...

aikman had the greatest oline ever.