My dream Draft

[DesertFox24]

All,

Please review. I am trying to do this BPA meets impact. Also let me know if the round is way to high or low for a guy.

1 - Marcel Dareus - this guy is a stud nothing more to add
2 - Martez Webster - look we need a lot of help in the front 7 and this guy is going to be a stud
3 - KJ Wright - nice looking OLB prospect can compete for starting job this year. Also would give us some nice LB depth.
4 - Tyler Sash & Ricky Stanzi (I would like to get Sash a lot, not sure on Stanzi would rather have Dalton but he will be long gone).
5 - Karl Klug DE Iowa (this guy is another Kyle Williams that will play DE for us) Pernell McPhee is another possibility
6 - Mario Harvey ILB Marshall
7 - Joe Barksdale played LT at LSU will compete for our RT spot

Our DL would consist of the following
1 Troup
2 Williams
3 Carrington
4 Dareus
5 Klug
6 Johnson

Our LB (Gailey said he wants a lot LBs for flexibility and special teams, could remove Torbor and Davis to make 10)
7 Kelsay
8 Poz (sounds like he will be back and bills want him back)
9 Webster
10 Merriman
11 Harvey
12 Wright
13 Harvey
14 Torbor
15 Moats
16 Batten
17 Davis
18 Coleman

Our QB
19 Fitz
20 Stanzi
21 Brown

Our OL
22 Bell
23 Levitre
24 Wood
25 Urbik
26 Howard
27 Hang
28 Rinehart
29 Barksdale

CB
30 McGee
31 McKelvin
32 Florence (needs to come back)
33 Corner

DB
34 Wilson (needs to come back)
35 Bryd
36 Sash
37 Scott

WR/TE
38 Evans
39 Johnson
40 Parrish
41 Nelson
42 Easley
43 Jones
44 Stupar
45 Chandler
46 Nelson

RB
47 Spiller
48 Jackson
49 McInyter
50 UDFA

This leaves us with 50 players so looking at this roster I could definitely see another OL, CB, and a DB.

[Mahdi]

I don't like the Dareus pick because IMO, if you are taking a DL in the top 5 he MUST be a pass rusher.

Suh was chosen #2 because of his ability to pass rush same with McCoy. If those guys didn't get as many sacks as they did and be as disruptive they would not have been selected in the top 5.

Bowers and Fairley are better value.

[Bangarang]

I don't like the Dareus pick because IMO, if you are taking a DL in the top 5 he MUST be a pass rusher.

Suh was chosen #2 because of his ability to pass rush same with McCoy. If those guys didn't get as many sacks as they did and be as disruptive they would not have been selected in the top 5.

Bowers and Fairley are better value.

Bowers isn't explosive enough for my liking. I think he'll bust in the NFL.

[Mahdi]

Bowers isn't explosive enough for my liking. I think he'll bust in the NFL.
Not explosive enough? This guy made a living in the backfield. He is not Robert Mathis quick but he is definitely explosive and also brings size and strength.

[Bangarang]

Not explosive enough? This guy made a living in the backfield. He is not Robert Mathis quick but he is definitely explosive and also brings size and strength.

Just not a fan of his first step. He may end up a very good pro in the NFL. Who knows?

[tomz]

In the third, Luke Stocker would be interesting if still available. He's a tight end who can do both functions decently.

For now, I agree with Bangarang at this point on Bowers: the little bit of video on the web suggests he is a one-move, speed guy. In no highlight that I have seen (admittedly, somewhat limited) did he bull bullrush, use leverage or us an inside move. Having a little variety in this regard is why, for example, Orakpo, had rapid impact.

[justasportsfan]

I don't like the Dareus pick because IMO, if you are taking a DL in the top 5 he MUST be a pass rusher.

Suh was chosen #2 because of his ability to pass rush same with McCoy. If those guys didn't get as many sacks as they did and be as disruptive they would not have been selected in the top 5.

Bowers and Fairley are better value.

in a 3-4 base the pass rush comes from the lbers. We need run stuffers at DL on both 3-4 and 4-3 and I believe Dareus can on both defensive schemes.

[Mahdi]

in a 3-4 base the pass rush comes from the lbers. We need run stuffers at DL on both 3-4 and 4-3 and I believe Dareus can on both defensive schemes.
I agree. The pass rush does come from the LBs. But you don't waste a top 3 pick on a run stuffer.

Look around the league at the top 3-4 defenses and tell me how many DEs are top 3 or even top 15 draftees. The only DL players I would select to play DE are players that can provide an interior pass rush as Seymour did. They would be Fairley and Bowers.

All that being said I like our DL... Carrington, Troup, KW, Stroud, Johnson and don't forget Dewan Edwards was having a great season.

At #3 we must take a player who is either a QB, pass rusher, LT or shut down CB or some incredible ILB prospect which doesn't exist, same for LT.

That leaves QB, pass rusher, shutdown CB.

[Ed]

Well you still need a kicker, punter and long snapper so that would take up your last 3 spots. I don't think there's anyway we carry 12 LB's and only 8 DB's.

I also don't think that we're going to cut Wang after only one season and they probably won't and shouldn't cut Dwan Edwards.

Plus this roster assumes that we don't sign any free agents. That's highly unlikely.

[DesertFox24]

Dude Dareus can rush the passer and that would allow us to use some 8 man drops. He got 11.5 sacks in 2 years as a 34 end, what more could you want.

[DesertFox24]

Well you still need a kicker, punter and long snapper so that would take up your last 3 spots. I don't think there's anyway we carry 12 LB's and only 8 DB's.

I also don't think that we're going to cut Wang after only one season and they probably won't and shouldn't cut Dwan Edwards.

Plus this roster assumes that we don't sign any free agents. That's highly unlikely.

True I did forget edwards, Wang, Lindell, Moorman, Sanbor. Def cut Torbor Davis.

[Mahdi]

Dude Dareus can rush the passer and that would allow us to use some 8 man drops. He got 11.5 sacks in 2 years as a 34 end, what more could you want.
I could want a lot more.

Dareus had 5 sacks, 33 tackles, 11 TFL.

Bowers had 16 sacks, 67 tackles, 25 TFL

Fairley had 12 sacks, 56 tackles, 24 TFL.

Those are big differences. For me, Bowers and Fairley are more disruptive and better pure pass rushers. If I want a run defender I can get one later in the draft and not pay him 50 mil.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I could want a lot more.

Dareus had 5 sacks, 33 tackles, 11 TFL.

Bowers had 16 sacks, 67 tackles, 25 TFL

Fairley had 12 sacks, 56 tackles, 24 TFL.

Those are big differences. For me, Bowers and Fairley are more disruptive and better pure pass rushers. If I want a run defender I can get one later in the draft and not pay him 50 mil.

But only one played a 5 tech in a 3-4, that's a monster difference. Also, the best team of this decade felt it was worthy to draft 5 tech's early an often. Both Seymore and Ty Warren were drafted in the top 14 and both helped New England win a superbowl

[Mahdi]

But only one played a 5 tech in a 3-4, that's a monster difference. Also, the best team of this decade felt it was worthy to draft 5 tech's early an often. Both Seymore and Ty Warren were drafted in the top 14 and both helped New England win a superbowl
Good point. New England did draft Seymour high. But he was a very disruptive player.

Warren was picked 14th so there is more flexibility with that pick.

I don't agree that Dareus playing 3-4 DE makes him more valuable or more likely to be chosen. You pick the best player not the guy who plays your scheme, especially at 3.


Dareus may be a better pass rusher than I am giving him credit for but I think Bowers and Fairley are much better pass rushers and that is where the value is when you are picking in the top 3.

Don't forget we invested heavily at the DE/DT position. Edwards, Troup, Carrington.

[DraftBoy]

I could want a lot more.

Dareus had 5 sacks, 33 tackles, 11 TFL.

Bowers had 16 sacks, 67 tackles, 25 TFL

Fairley had 12 sacks, 56 tackles, 24 TFL.

Those are big differences. For me, Bowers and Fairley are more disruptive and better pure pass rushers. If I want a run defender I can get one later in the draft and not pay him 50 mil.

You're ignoring their scheme and what each player was asked to do, to try and make your point work. How is that fair or make your point at all relevant?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I don't like the Dareus pick because IMO, if you are taking a DL in the top 5 he MUST be a pass rusher.

Suh was chosen #2 because of his ability to pass rush same with McCoy. If those guys didn't get as many sacks as they did and be as disruptive they would not have been selected in the top 5.

Bowers and Fairley are better value.

actually dareus is a very good pass rusher... he was suspended the first 2 games and then in his first game back against duke i think, he sprained his ankle. he wasnt healthy until the bowl game where he had numerous hurries hits and 2 sacks.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

and mich st. has a above avg oline....

[Mahdi]

You're ignoring their scheme and what each player was asked to do, to try and make your point work. How is that fair or make your point at all relevant?
My point is that Fairley and Bowers are better pass rushers. Like I said I might be underestimating Dareus' pass rush ability, but either way, in terms of candidates who can provide an interior pass rush there are better options.

I personally think Dareus is going to be a very good player but I like Fairley and Bowers' upside more.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Our DL would consist of the following
1 Troup
2 Williams
3 Carrington
4 Dareus
5 Klug
6 JohnsonDwan Edwards??? He was by far our best DE.

[DraftBoy]

My point is that Fairley and Bowers are better pass rushers. Like I said I might be underestimating Dareus' pass rush ability, but either way, in terms of candidates who can provide an interior pass rush there are better options.

I personally think Dareus is going to be a very good player but I like Fairley and Bowers' upside more.

I disagree and that statement is based on nothing considering both Fairley and Bowers have not shown the ability to provide any pass rush when asked to play the 5 tech on the outside. Aside from that I dont really care a ton about pass rush from my 3-4 DE, I care about them anchoring, stopping the run, and keeping my LB's clean.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If Fairley is off the board, I agree with the Dareus pick..... if this team is
re-committed to the 4-3. We have too many 3-4 DE on this team who could play DT in a 4-3 and no true NT to play the 3-4.

[Night Train]

Some are once again assuming the Bills are still running a 3-4 when the 2nd half of the year showed a 4-3 almost exclusively.

If you still believe in the 3-4 , then trade away Kyle Williams on draft day because he can't play NT. Or switch him to a DE.

Otherwise, expect to continue seeing a 4-3 look.

[Mahdi]

I disagree and that statement is based on nothing considering both Fairley and Bowers have not shown the ability to provide any pass rush when asked to play the 5 tech on the outside. Aside from that I dont really care a ton about pass rush from my 3-4 DE, I care about them anchoring, stopping the run, and keeping my LB's clean.
1. Are you saying that the top 3-4 DEs in the NFL were 3-4 DEs in college?


2. If you don't care about a pass rush from your 5 technique DE that you are drafting in the top 3 then there are a ton of other players that can be drafted much later that can anchor and keep LBs clean.

Pretty sure 90% of the 5-techniques in the NFL are not even first rounders.

[Mahdi]

Some are once again assuming the Bills are still running a 3-4 when the 2nd half of the year showed a 4-3 almost exclusively.

If you still believe in the 3-4 , then trade away Kyle Williams on draft day because he can't play NT. Or switch him to a DE.

Otherwise, expect to continue seeing a 4-3 look.
Well you are simply wrong about the 4-3 statement because Moats was playing 3-4 OLB throughout the last half of the season.

The reason you insist that the Bills were playing 4-3 was because you saw Kelsay with his hand on the ground a lot which has nothing to do with what formation the D was playing.

[YardRat]

I don't think Bowers would be as good of a fit as Dareus or Fairley.

[IMissKelly]

My dream offseason/draft...

Sign Vince Young-Dual Threat QB
Sign CB Nnamdi Asomugha-shutdown corner
Trade the #3pick to the redskins for future 1st rounder, RD1(#10),RD2(#9),RD5(#13)
Draft:
RD1(10)-Draft OT-Nate Solder-Top Tackle in the draft..solidifies our left side
RD2(2)-Draft OT-Gabe Carimi-Solidifies our right side and completes young talented line.
RD2(9)-Draft TE-Kyle Rudolph-Finally an elite tight end.
RD3(4)-Draft S-Robert Sands-6'5" 235lb beastly hard hitting safety..think Ronnie Lott
RD4(4)-Draft DT-Jared Crick-...stout against the run and gets after the QB
RD4(25)-Draft OLB-Kenneth Wright..a tackling machine with great speed.
RD5(2)-Draft DE-Sam Acho...High character. Relentless pass rusher.
RD6(4)-Draft ILB-Casey Matthews...great pedigree..hard worker.brother of Clay Matthews.
RD7(3)-Draft QB-Tyrod Taylor...Michael Vick thinks he can make it at the Next Level. Worth a shot if Vince Young doesn't pan out.

[mightysimi]

Well you are simply wrong about the 4-3 statement because Moats was playing 3-4 OLB throughout the last half of the season.

The reason you insist that the Bills were playing 4-3 was because you saw Kelsay with his hand on the ground a lot which has nothing to do with what formation the D was playing.

Yeah but that is really only because they called Kelsay's position LB. It was pretty much a 4 man front the whole time. Technically Moats played OLB but not that true.

[Lone Stranger]

The initial draft looks very good. I think you should have paid a little more attention to the OT position. Otherwise, you have addressed key areas.

[DraftBoy]

1. Are you saying that the top 3-4 DEs in the NFL were 3-4 DEs in college?


2. If you don't care about a pass rush from your 5 technique DE that you are drafting in the top 3 then there are a ton of other players that can be drafted much later that can anchor and keep LBs clean.

Pretty sure 90% of the 5-techniques in the NFL are not even first rounders.


1. No, but Im saying that when I see a guy who has 3-4 exp, knows how to anchor and excels as a run defender, I tend to project him as a better 3-4 end than two guys who are known for rushing the passer and penetrating which is not the job or the intent of the 3-4 end.

2. This statement makes no sense, considering you know and have acknowledged that the majority of the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLB not the DE.

[psubills62]

I have a feeling that Dareus will be more attractive to Nix and co. than Fairley and Bowers. From looking at the defensive prospects they took last year, almost everything I read describing each one of them (Carrington, Troup, Batten, Moats) said something to the effect of: "defends the run well, has upside as a pass rusher." I think that's what you'd get with Dareus. And I don't see how it's a wasted pick, when our run D was obviously one of the worst parts of our team. If it's a big upgrade, how is it a wasted pick?

And yeah, I'd say 11.5 sacks in 5 years is pretty darn good for a 3-4 DE at Alabama.

To be honest, I'm not sure I see Klug being drafted as a DE if we have Dareus, Carrington, and Edwards already. That's a solid 3-man rotation. I know we need depth, but I think if the draft went like that, a CB or OL would be a better pick there.

[The Slave]

It'll include trading down and picking up one of the most promising DE's in the draft in Robert Quinn (Although I heard rumors that he might not declare) and an extra 2nd rounder.

Marvin Austin DT North Carolina in the 2nd and with the extra 2nd grabbing the best LB on the board.

You have your DE, DT and an LB in the 1st 2 rounds in a very deep draft.


1st Rounder : Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
2nd Rounder: Marvin Austin DT North Carolina
Ex. 2nd rounder: Bruce Carter LB North Carolina

The North Carolina connection. I know Marv Austin will be one of the steals of the draft if he falls to us in the 2nd.

[Mahdi]

1. No, but Im saying that when I see a guy who has 3-4 exp, knows how to anchor and excels as a run defender, I tend to project him as a better 3-4 end than two guys who are known for rushing the passer and penetrating which is not the job or the intent of the 3-4 end.

2. This statement makes no sense, considering you know and have acknowledged that the majority of the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLB not the DE.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Because if you ARE drafting a player to play 3-4 DE at #3 overall he better be a player who ALSO provides a pass rush, not just an anchor against the run.

Otherwise you just look for a player in the later rounds who can give you that which should not be hard.

What you don't do is spend 50 mil or more on an anchor.

[Mahdi]

I have a feeling that Dareus will be more attractive to Nix and co. than Fairley and Bowers. From looking at the defensive prospects they took last year, almost everything I read describing each one of them (Carrington, Troup, Batten, Moats) said something to the effect of: "defends the run well, has upside as a pass rusher." I think that's what you'd get with Dareus. And I don't see how it's a wasted pick, when our run D was obviously one of the worst parts of our team. If it's a big upgrade, how is it a wasted pick?

And yeah, I'd say 11.5 sacks in 5 years is pretty darn good for a 3-4 DE at Alabama.

To be honest, I'm not sure I see Klug being drafted as a DE if we have Dareus, Carrington, and Edwards already. That's a solid 3-man rotation. I know we need depth, but I think if the draft went like that, a CB or OL would be a better pick there.
It's a wasted pick because you can get run defenders anywhere in the draft. Again, the league is filled with solid 5-techniques who are mainly just solid run defenders who keep their LBs clean and the majority of them are late round draftees.

When you are picking top 3 he has to be a playmaker. He has to have a game changing effect. Not just a solid football player who can occasionally provide a pass rush.

QB, WR, Shutdown CB, LT, special RB, DE, 3-4 OLB, special ILB talent (Even Willis didn't go till 11).

Ask the Chiefs how they feel about Tyson Jackson at 5 now.

[DraftBoy]

Actually it makes perfect sense. Because if you ARE drafting a player to play 3-4 DE at #3 overall he better be a player who ALSO provides a pass rush, not just an anchor against the run.

Otherwise you just look for a player in the later rounds who can give you that which should not be hard.

What you don't do is spend 50 mil or more on an anchor.

No it doesnt and if you are trying to insinuate that Dareus offers little or no pass rush ability, I have to question how much of him you've seen.

What I dont get here is your concentration that only the pass rush skill matters when you know how important run defense is to a 3-4 end. If you dont like Dareus, that's fine but your bending the role of a 3-4 end to fit the guys you like better.

[psubills62]

It's a wasted pick because you can get run defenders anywhere in the draft. Again, the league is filled with solid 5-techniques who are mainly just solid run defenders who keep their LBs clean and the majority of them are late round draftees.

When you are picking top 3 he has to be a playmaker. He has to have a game changing effect. Not just a solid football player who can occasionally provide a pass rush.

QB, WR, Shutdown CB, LT, special RB, DE, 3-4 OLB, special ILB talent (Even Willis didn't go till 11).

Ask the Chiefs how they feel about Tyson Jackson at 5 now.
Jackson is nowhere near the same prospect as Dareus.

I agree, you can get run defenders anywhere in the draft, which is one reason I can understand wanting to focus on getting top-level skill player in the first round of the draft. But I can also understand wanting to set up a dominating DL in Buffalo.

The problem with your argument is that Dareus actually provides a decent amount of pass rush for a 3-4 DE. 11.5 sacks in 2 years is nothing to sneeze at for a 2-gap 5-tech.

And yes, Dareus would provide a game-changing effect. He would help in a huge way to stop the run. How many plays do pass rushing DE's have an effect? Maybe 20 at most? Dareus should be able to provide about 10 or so a year as a pass rusher and more as a run stopper.

I wouldn't be ecstatic about selecting a 5 technique at #3, since you're right that they can typically be found later in the draft. However, I wouldn't be horribly upset at it, as I think it would have a significant effect on our defense.

[X-Era]

No it doesnt and if you are trying to insinuate that Dareus offers little or no pass rush ability, I have to question how much of him you've seen.

What I dont get here is your concentration that only the pass rush skill matters when you know how important run defense is to a 3-4 end. If you dont like Dareus, that's fine but your bending the role of a 3-4 end to fit the guys you like better.Personally I'd like to see us get a guy who's solid at both. Dareus is one of those prospects IMO.