Questions about Toronto?

[Extremebillsfan247]

Ok!, so maybe I'm a little :coocoo:here. But follow me for a moment.

After recent reports surfaced about NFL teams possibly ready to relocate, another surfaced north of the border saying that Toronto's Mayor wants an NFL team in Toronto. http://www.wgr550.com/Report--Teams-Are--Ready-to-Move--To-LA--Toronto-M/9037464

I don't think they would get the Bills, but here are some questions I think can be subject to debate.

If another team for example ( The Vikings) jumped at the opportunity, how would that impact the Bills being that Toronto is so close? How many fans in Toronto are actually Bills fans? How many of them would leave because they now have their own team to route for? How many Bills fans who live in and around the City of Buffalo would defect to the new Toronto team if this Bills team continued on its path of mediocrity? What is the potential overall impact of having a team north of the border?

You could see this in several ways. Cleveland is relatively close, and the Bills still sustain a formidable fanbase. If a team moved north, it may force Ralph Wilson, or whom ever the Owner is at the time to field a better product in order to keep the team viable.

However, the larger picture here is a bit more frightening. Having 3 NFL teams so close geographically, one is almost doomed to fail. Being that Buffalo is already considered a small market team, putting a team in Toronto has the potential to shrink that market even further. Having a team move north could have disastrous consequences for this franchise, and has real potential to then force the Bills to either relocate, or close its doors permanently.

Am I worrying too much, or is there genuine reason for concern here? your thoughts..

[PromoTheRobot]

Before Toronto can even be considered for the NFL they need a new stadium. Rogers Centre will not cut it as a full-time facility. Considering the cost of real estate in the GTA I can't see a new stadium in the city. Also they can forget tax money building any facility.

However the Hamilton Tiger Cats are trying to build a new 30K seat stadium. How hard would it be to upsize that facility to 70K? That is what I would be watching out for.

PTR

[Bmax]

not really likely to happen .. Just another politican talking...The NFL is focused on LA first...Toronto will be an after thought...Best chnce for a team would be Buffalo..but i still think the Bills aren't going there full time..2 games maybe whole season not likely...


Bmax

[djjimkelly]

u asked what % are bills fans

id truly say 40% of ontario nfl fans are bills fans

any true nfl fan here loves the bills

the casual ontario nfl fan likes whoever is popular

and one thing i have noticed amongst my friends is they are all big nfl fans now

when we were in our 20's or earlier most of my friends liked hockey and thats about it

[mikemac2001]

u asked what % are bills fans

id truly say 40% of ontario nfl fans are bills fans

any true nfl fan here loves the bills

the casual ontario nfl fan likes whoever is popular

and one thing i have noticed amongst my friends is they are all big nfl fans now

when we were in our 20's or earlier most of my friends liked hockey and thats about it

at first look i thought you said 40% of bills fans are from Ontario and i was like WTF

cool insight though i wouldnt mind an Ontario team as long as we don't lose the bills i think it would be a great addition to the east.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

To answer PTR: There is no way-- ZERO-- that the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, who consider the Bills their archenemies, would ever allow an NFL team to play in their stadium.

Now, back to the original question:

...the maximum amount of Canadian Bills fans is about 20% of the regional fan base, based on the estimated 15,000 or so that came down to the Ralph during the MNF game (vs. Dallas?) on Columbus Day a few years back. However, that had more to do with it being the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday, plus the "America's Team" factor, so that number is probably significantly lower in general. Since then, also, the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative has also taken effect, which makes it harder to cross the border.

I think it's theoretically possible for the Bills and another NFL Toronto team to co-exist. However, you do have some valid concerns. Even a small dent in the Bills' attendance figures could threaten the team's viability, especially given the lack of an on-field draw in recent years. In short, it would hurt, but it wouldn't necessarily kill the Bills. This isn't like putting an NHL team in Hamilton, which would probably cause irreparable harm to the Sabres. The Bills could survive with another team in T-O.

[BillsFever21]

There is no doubt that if another NFL team moved to Toronto it would hurt the Bills. A large majority of them would become fans of that team and there are only so many games to go around. Especially when all the teams play on Sunday. They can't attend two games at one time.

The Bills have a hard enough time selling tickets with some of the cheapest tickets in the NFL. Any team that moved into their current market would most definitely put a dent into their revenue and ticket sales.

[PromoTheRobot]

To answer PTR: There is no way-- ZERO-- that the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, who consider the Bills their archenemies, would ever allow an NFL team to play in their stadium.

Now, back to the original question:

...the maximum amount of Canadian Bills fans is about 20% of the regional fan base, based on the estimated 15,000 or so that came down to the Ralph during the MNF game (vs. Dallas?) on Columbus Day a few years back. However, that had more to do with it being the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday, plus the "America's Team" factor, so that number is probably significantly lower in general. Since then, also, the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative has also taken effect, which makes it harder to cross the border.

I think it's theoretically possible for the Bills and another NFL Toronto team to co-exist. However, you do have some valid concerns. Even a small dent in the Bills' attendance figures could threaten the team's viability, especially given the lack of an on-field draw in recent years. In short, it would hurt, but it wouldn't necessarily kill the Bills. This isn't like putting an NHL team in Hamilton, which would probably cause irreparable harm to the Sabres. The Bills could survive with another team in T-O.

Here's a scenario to consider...

Ti-Cats get stadium approval. Bills are sold to a Canadian buyer. Same buyer buys the Ti-Cats then upgrades stadium plan to 70K. Not saying this will happen but it's not impossible.

PTR

[Spiderweb]

Here's a scenario to consider...

Ti-Cats get stadium approval. Bills are sold to a Canadian buyer. Same buyer buys the Ti-Cats then upgrades stadium plan to 70K. Not saying this will happen but it's not impossible.

PTR

PTR, that is a heck of a reach....

[darthokeefe]

Look TORONTO WILL NEVER get an NFL franchise....The Fans suck and dont even really want a team ...Hockey is king and unless someone builds a Jerry Jones type stadium its not gonna happen....Toronto is a Bills market...like it or not 15 thousand drunk canadian invade the ralph every week.....

[DrGraves]

the bills wouldn't lose any fans to other franchises.... people don't just swap teams. a fan is a fan.

[DrGraves]

the vikings aren't going anywhere either. don't be stupid. minnesota already lost the north stars... they would never let go of their football team.

[Northern Stampede]

I can only speak for myself, but I live about an hour west of Toronto, and I have been a Bills fan since I started loving/playing/coaching football, ( a loooong time ago hahaha ) and would never root for another team, even if it was the so called "home team"... THere is a decent Bills fan base here, and I think some are hardcore like myself, but we would probablly lose a few to the T.O. Team... I'll never stop cheering for the Bills, I've passed on my love for the team to my son who is now 14 and he absolutely loves the Bills, and has since he's been old enough to understand what football is lol... Go Bills!!! Now and forever.... No place other than Buffalo.... We love your town guys, and that will never change in the heart of this guy and his family!!!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

the vikings aren't going anywhere either. don't be stupid. minnesota already lost the north stars... they would never let go of their football team.
Their stadium roof collapsed. What was expected to be a quick repair that would take less than a week is instead taking several months. Kind of hard to play football without a stadium, and TCF Bank Stadium's less fit for NFL ball than the Rogers Centre.

[PromoTheRobot]

Look TORONTO WILL NEVER get an NFL franchise....The Fans suck and dont even really want a team ...Hockey is king and unless someone builds a Jerry Jones type stadium its not gonna happen....Toronto is a Bills market...like it or not 15 thousand drunk canadian invade the ralph every week.....

I have to believe becoming a winning team would bring even more fans from Canada. To be fair, who would pay $300 to watch a crap team?

PTR

[better days]

the vikings aren't going anywhere either. don't be stupid. minnesota already lost the north stars... they would never let go of their football team.

You forgot about the Lakers.

[Extremebillsfan247]

the bills wouldn't lose any fans to other franchises.... people don't just swap teams. a fan is a fan.
Actually, that kind of thing is very common. That's why a name was invented for it "called the bandwagon fan". People are attracted to a team for 1 of 3 reasons, regional, winning, or the underdog factor. When one of those 3 are threatened by change, some fans change with it (the bandwagon fan).

[sven233]

Actually, that kind of thing is very common. That's why a name was invented for it "called the bandwagon fan". People are attracted to a team for 1 of 3 reasons, regional, winning, or the underdog factor. When one of those 3 are threatened by change, some fans change with it (the bandwagon fan).

I don't know. Personally, if I have a favorite team, i am not switching.

For example, I am a huge Chicago Bulls fan. I have been for decades.....If Buffalo ever got an NBA team again, as much as I love local sports, I would not switch my team allegiance from the Bulls to the Buffalo team just because they showed up and our in our city. Sure, I might follow them and adopt them as a second favorite team, but my primary allegiance would still be to the Bulls.

I know it is not quite the same thing because of location......I can't just go to Bulls games anytime I want to because they are so far away and Toronto is so close, but I still believe that if you are a Bills fan, most would stay Bills fans because that's the way it technically should be. No bandwagon fans please. Buffalo would still be close enough to make the trip for games and really nothing would change other than another team being around........at least it shouldn't.

Just my thought, though. I could see others switching, but if they do, that just shows they weren't true fans to begin with.