Cam Newton

[cgbm]

Alright. we all have been arguing about cam newton on a ton of threads. how bout we have a thread totally dedicated to Cam. lets hear it all.

i think we absolutely need a qb and nobody can argue that.

that being said. i also think that Cam Newton is the best in this class and we need him at 3 or any number for that matter.

[ddaryl]

Re: Cam Newton

unless that QB is ready to start before 2011 is over with we shouldn't reach for one at #3 regardless of who we are talking about.

We need to strengthen both lines and LB's in this draft...

Also Cam doesn't pass the rule, and it's way to risky to not pay attention to the 26-27-60 rule as the majority of QB's who come into the league and do not come at least very close to passing this rule has failed many many more times then not.

If an NFL prospect scores at least a 26 on the Wonderlic test, starts at least 27 games in his college career and completes at least 60 percent of his passes, there's a good chance he will succeed at the NFL level.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1CXOPNw3f

Since 1998, these are some of the NFL quarterbacks who aced all three parts of the Rule of 26-27-60: Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Tony Romo, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb, Matt Ryan, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Stafford.

Name Wonderlic Starts Completion Percentage Peyton Manning 28 45 63 Philip Rivers 30 49 64 Drew Brees 28 36 61 Tony Romo 37 35 62 Matt Schaub 31 36 67 Eli Manning 39 38 61 Kyle Orton 26 37 60 Kevin Kolb 28 47 62 Matt Ryan 32 28 60 Ryan Fitzpatrick 48 28 60

Meanwhile, among the once highly-touted prospects who failed at least one part of the formula: Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Michael Vick, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Daunte Culpepper, David Carr, Vince Young and JaMarcus Russell.

Player Wonderlic Starts Completion Percentage Ryan Leaf 27 24 53 Joey Harrington 32 26 55 Michael Vick 20 21 56 Akili Smith 26 11 58 Tim Couch 22 27 67 Daunte Culpepper 18 43 64 David Carr 24 26 62 Vince Young 16 32 61 JaMarcus Russell 24 29 61

There are a few notable exceptions to the rule but only by slight margins.Two-time Super Bowl champ Ben Roethlisberger scored a 25 on the Wonderlic, just one point short of the standard of 26. Jay Cutler -- a mixed-bag thus far in the NFL -- scored exactly a 26 on his Wonderlic and had the starts, but completed 57 percent of his passes at Vanderbilt. Joe Flacco, who's been to the playoffs in each of his first two seasons, fell short in the starts category.

Player Wonderlic Starts Completion Percentage Jay Cutler 26 43 57 Ben Roethlisberger 25 38 65 Joe Flacco 27 22 64

How about the quarterback class of 2010? Top pick Sam Bradford aces the rule easily, but the other three high-profile rookie QBs -- the Browns' Colt McCoy, the Broncos' Tim Tebow and the Panthers' Jimmy Clausen -- all fall short on the Wonderlic, although not by much.

Player Wonderlic Starts Completion Percentage Sam Bradford 36 31 67 Colt McCoy 25 53 70 Tim Tebow 22 42 67 Jimmy Clausen 23 35 63

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/john_lopez/07/08/qb.rule/index.html#ixzz1CXNxLW4U

[X-Era]

Re: Cam Newton

Alright. we all have been arguing about cam newton on a ton of threads. how bout we have a thread totally dedicated to Cam. lets hear it all.

i think we absolutely need a qb and nobody can argue that.

that being said. i also think that Cam Newton is the best in this class and we need him at 3 or any number for that matter.

I'll play.

1) This years boom or bust prospect. Ryan Mallett is a boom or bust prospect as well, but not to the level of Newton. Newton has phenomenal athleticism which makes his ceiling higher IMO. Newton has the size and arm. He needs to be developed and polished technically. He heeds footwork coaching and to further develop his ability to read defenses. I think Gailey can do it and Fitz could help him with the mental aspects. We wouldn't need him right away and that could make this scenario more doable for us.

2) For the Bills, a spread QB may actually be a bit more attractive. We run the spread so much that it may be an easier transition.

3) I think Gailey can get the best out of the guy. I think he proved to us that he can get production out of his players and especially the QB. I think Gailey can mold him into a solid passer who reads defenses before taking off on the run. But I also think Gailey will utilize his run ability to add yet another weapon to the offense. Gailey can work with a mobile QB. His history with Kordell Stewart may make him more prone to grab a guy that can add the running threat. And I think Gailey would use him right away in certain situations like Wildcat formations or possibly even lined up inside in a 4 wide set.

4) Newton is a big name. The PR factor is there with him. But, he needs to come out squeaky clean when teams investigate his past. If even more than one team says he has questionable character, it will make this a very controversial pick and the PR may go negative rather than positive. Let's face it, outlets like ESPN are no fans of the Bills. They would eat up the chance to further slam us.

5) Newton can absolutely end up in the top 10 or even top 5 in this draft. Sorry, but the thought that his stock can't rise just isn't accurate. I mean some here state that if a guy isn't ranked top 15 during the season, they shouldn't be after its done. Yet the same guys who made those ranks (McShay, Kiper, Mayock, etc... ) are the same guys changing their ranks. So mid-season their opinion was valid but now it's not? Teams have professionals doing this and they readily admit that their rankings can and will change after the season ends, but posters here know better? It would be more genuine if those that feel that way would just admit that they don't want a QB at 3 period, or that they simply don't like a player.

[X-Era]

Re: Cam Newton

unless that QB is ready to start before 2011 is over with we shouldn't reach for one at #3 regardless of who we are talking about.

We need to strengthen both lines and LB's in this draft...

Also Cam doesn't pass the rule, and it's way to risky to not pay attention to the 27-26-60 rule as the majority of QB's who come into the league and do not come at least very close to passing this rule has failed many many more times then not.

1) There is no rule.

2) Prove he's a reach. Where's the data?

[cgbm]

Re: Cam Newton

unless that QB is ready to start before 2011 is over with we shouldn't reach for one at #3 regardless of who we are talking about.

We need to strengthen both lines and LB's in this draft...

Also Cam doesn't pass the rule, and it's way to risky to not pay attention to the 26-27-60 rule as the majority of QB's who come into the league and do not come at least very close to passing this rule has failed many many more times then not.

I agree thatthose spots need to be addressed. But you cant argue the fact that we have to have a qb to win. Ryan fitzpatric is not a great qb and is not going to win us a superbowl. Btw. Ryan did pass the rule. How did that work out. And wile i agree with the rule. I dont agree with sitting here and passing on a potebtial superstar and being in this exact same spot next year. Cam is an amazing player, proven winner, and has legs combined with a nfl arm. Wht else could u want

[YardRat]

Re: Cam Newton

No to Newton at #3. Start with the lines, and build out. We're not in position to take that kind of risk on a QB this early in the development of the team. Solidify the trenches and the LBers, then we will be in a better position to take a chance.

If Newton busts, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. If he booms, who cares, we'll be able to get somebody else in a season or two and their chances of success will greatly increase with a better offensive line and an above-average defense.

If you're in this for ticket sales and the Wow! factor, go for it. If you're looking for long-term success, stay very far away from Cam.

[cgbm]

Re: Cam Newton

I'll play.

1) This years boom or bust prospect. Ryan Mallett is a boom or bust prospect as well, but not to the level of Newton. Newton has phenomenal athleticism which makes his ceiling higher IMO. Newton has the size and arm. He needs to be developed and polished technically. He heeds footwork coaching and to further develop his ability to read defenses. I think Gailey can do it and Fitz could help him with the mental aspects. We wouldn't need him right away and that could make this scenario more doable for us.

2) For the Bills, a spread QB may actually be a bit more attractive. We run the spread so much that it may be an easier transition.

3) I think Gailey can get the best out of the guy. I think he proved to us that he can get production out of his players and especially the QB. I think Gailey can mold him into a solid passer who reads defenses before taking off on the run. But I also think Gailey will utilize his run ability to add yet another weapon to the offense. Gailey can work with a mobile QB. His history with Kordell Stewart may make him more prone to grab a guy that can add the running threat. And I think Gailey would use him right away in certain situations like Wildcat formations or possibly even lined up inside in a 4 wide set.

4) Newton is a big name. The PR factor is there with him. But, he needs to come out squeaky clean when teams investigate his past. If even more than one team says he has questionable character, it will make this a very controversial pick and the PR may go negative rather than positive. Let's face it, outlets like ESPN are no fans of the Bills. They would eat up the chance to further slam us.

5) Newton can absolutely end up in the top 10 or even top 5 in this draft. Sorry, but the thought that his stock can't rise just isn't accurate. I mean some here state that if a guy isn't ranked top 15 during the season, they shouldn't be after its done. Yet the same guys who made those ranks (McShay, Kiper, Mayock, etc... ) are the same guys changing their ranks. So mid-season their opinion was valid but now it's not? Teams have professionals doing this and they readily admit that their rankings can and will change after the season ends, but posters here know better? It would be more genuine if those that feel that way would just admit that they don't want a QB at 3 period, or that they simply don't like a player.

Seriously man. Way to in depth. You could make the same development argue with any qb. The fact is cam is the best in this draft by far and we need a qb #1. Can someone argue that a lb or ol,dl is more needed because that is rediculous. Those are positions but qb is THE position and right now were ranked 27 or lower

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: Cam Newton

Really? Do we need yet another thread to beat the dead horse?

[X-Era]

Re: Cam Newton

No to Newton at #3. Start with the lines, and build out. We're not in position to take that kind of risk on a QB this early in the development of the team. Solidify the trenches and the LBers, then we will be in a better position to take a chance.

If Newton busts, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. If he booms, who cares, we'll be able to get somebody else in a season or two and their chances of success will greatly increase with a better offensive line and an above-average defense.

If you're in this for ticket sales and the Wow! factor, go for it. If you're looking for long-term success, stay very far away from Cam.

I like this post from you. It skipped the whole worthiness at 3 issue and went straight to your preference.

I agree with much of what you said. The only reasons I would be willing to take the risk is because I think it's so critical for our long term success to get a serious upgrade. And, I think Nix may make some quality moves in FA to lessen our need for a huge defensive player at 3. Plus I'd like to play to the strengths of the draft and I think the strongest place to pick a LB'er is in rounds 2-5. And the DL depth is so good, we could wait on that too. For example.

What if we ended up with these guys?

2) Martez Wilson
3) Jeremy Beal
4) Phil Taylor

[cgbm]

Re: Cam Newton

No to Newton at #3. Start with the lines, and build out. We're not in position to take that kind of risk on a QB this early in the development of the team. Solidify the trenches and the LBers, then we will be in a better position to take a chance.

If Newton busts, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. If he booms, who cares, we'll be able to get somebody else in a season or two and their chances of success will greatly increase with a better offensive line and an above-average defense.

If you're in this for ticket sales and the Wow! factor, go for it. If you're looking for long-term success, stay very far away from Cam.

Early in the development? This team was established in 1959. To me that means this isnt early development.

Long term success stay away from cam? Thats right. If we want to have long term success lets keep a bad qb and get a good lb and lineman. Ill refer you to my signature. Nuff said

Your right about one thing though. If we skip on a qb and he does well. W will be able to pick one in a season or two cuz we will be in the top five on draft day until we get a good qb

And your

[YardRat]

Re: Cam Newton

5) Newton can absolutely end up in the top 10 or even top 5 in this draft. Sorry, but the thought that his stock can't rise just isn't accurate. I mean some here state that if a guy isn't ranked top 15 during the season, they shouldn't be after its done. Yet the same guys who made those ranks (McShay, Kiper, Mayock, etc... ) are the same guys changing their ranks. So mid-season their opinion was valid but now it's not? Teams have professionals doing this and they readily admit that their rankings can and will change after the season ends, but posters here know better? It would be more genuine if those that feel that way would just admit that they don't want a QB at 3 period, or that they simply don't like a player.

Considering I'm one of 'those guys' on this board, I'll address this...

I've maintained for quite awhile that somebody is going to fall in love with Newton and take him high...That doesn't mean he necessarily is a better pick than the players he leap-frogged.

His stock can rise, and will...What does that prove, really?

Player rankings should be pretty solidified after the games are done...anybody that puts too much stock into results from a controlled environment (the combine) or a contrived work-out (the pro days) are setting themselves up for a higher likelihood of failure.

As for the bolded part...Aye, there's the rub. Who really gives a **** about Kiper, McShay and the rest of the talking heads? If they want more face time and more opportunity to express their 'expertise', let them play around with the rankings...I couldn't care less. Anybody that actually holds a position in an NFL front office though? Yeah, if they are affected too much by the combine/pro days, or if they even give a rat's ass how the media GM-wannabes rank players enough to change their big board, that would concern me a lot. Football teams need football players, not workout warriors.

Finally...I don't want a QB at #3, period, because there isn't one in this draft worth taking that risk on, that high. If I'm rolling the dice, I'll take my chances with a big man in the first round, and consider gambling on a long shot in a later round.

[Figster]

Re: Cam Newton

Statistically, Newton among best ever

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/cam-newton

[X-Era]

Re: Cam Newton

Considering I'm one of 'those guys' on this board, I'll address this...

I've maintained for quite awhile that somebody is going to fall in love with Newton and take him high...That doesn't mean he necessarily is a better pick than the players he leap-frogged.

His stock can rise, and will...What does that prove, really?

Player rankings should be pretty solidified after the games are done...anybody that puts too much stock into results from a controlled environment (the combine) or a contrived work-out (the pro days) are setting themselves up for a higher likelihood of failure.

As for the bolded part...Aye, there's the rub. Who really gives a **** about Kiper, McShay and the rest of the talking heads? If they want more face time and more opportunity to express their 'expertise', let them play around with the rankings...I couldn't care less. Anybody that actually holds a position in an NFL front office though? Yeah, if they are affected too much by the combine/pro days, or if they even give a rat's ass how the media GM-wannabes rank players enough to change their big board, that would concern me a lot. Football teams need football players, not workout warriors.

Finally...I don't want a QB at #3, period, because there isn't one in this draft worth taking that risk on, that high. If I'm rolling the dice, I'll take my chances with a big man in the first round, and consider gambling on a long shot in a later round.

Where did you get your rankings? Was it in part or in whole from what you read? I mean I try to form my opinion on players based on what I watch. But I absolutely look to see what others are thinking as well.

What does stock rising prove? That teams don't look at it like you do. It happens every year and the teams that are spending the millions and making the picks are the ones doing it. I mean in many situations I agree that they are wrong in their rank on a player, but I can't pretend that it isn't a reality. Really the question is who sets the worth of the player. And it's the teams, not us.

Let me admit to being wrong as an example. I thought Clausen would go in round 1 last year. Yet the NFL teams saw it different. Some here thought LeFevour would go in the 2nd or 3rd round, again wrongly. What we see is not always what teams see, and as you showed not always what the Bills see.

It's the old axiom: Something is worth whatever someone will pay for it.

[tampabay25690]

Re: Cam Newton

Im fine with Cam 3rd.
Would put asses in the seats and Bills fans would luv him and his big personality......Cam would fit very well in Chan's style of offense.
I actually would be the best situation for Cam and the Bills.....

[YardRat]

Re: Cam Newton

Early in the development? This team was established in 1959. To me that means this isnt early development.

Long term success stay away from cam? Thats right. If we want to have long term success lets keep a bad qb and get a good lb and lineman. Ill refer you to my signature. Nuff said

Your right about one thing though. If we skip on a qb and he does well. W will be able to pick one in a season or two cuz we will be in the top five on draft day until we get a good qb

And your

We've sucked for more than a decade, and we're rebuilding. Year #1 of Nix/Gailey just wrapped up. Yes, we are in an early developmental stage.

Long term success is built on the o-line and defense. That's why certain teams continue to make the playoffs on a regular basis, or experience shorter up and down cycles. From the Steel Curtain to the current crew, it isn't just a coincidence that Pittsburgh has been the most successful AFC team in the Super Bowl era.

Your sig is wrong, sorry. Many teams over the years have had 'franchise' QB's. Many never won a championship, a plethora struggled in the playoffs or even had trouble making them. Behind every 'franchise' QB (save the rare exception, like Peyton Manning, but let's be honest he'd still be ringless if the Indy D hadn't stepped up for the post-season) is more often than not a solid defense and offensive line.