Is it Parially Fans Fault?

[Mike]

And Clay Matthews is in the SB & Orakpo is Prow Bowler. Oher is a good LT.

Yup, that Maybin kid's gonna be something special.

****ing Jauron

Its also Partially Fans Fault for Supporting OBD and Jauron the first 3yrs. I remember the pick and how STRONGLY most Bills Fans Defended it!!! Even after year one, when it was obvious which way things are going, Fans defended the pick always alluding to the idea that OBD must know something about these players and the draft that we don't -obviously false. So, in retrospect, if you were in DJ's shoes and for 3years or so, and you had the blind support of Bills fans everywhere wouldn't you think you were right too?

Now, are many of us doing this Same thing all over again? I know many defended Spiller when he was drafted and are defending him again after showing very little... If you are one of those fans, and Spiller and the Current Administration Fail, its part your fault as well for supporting bad football decisions.

[Prov401]

No, it's not.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

no, the fans have no choice.... its like trying to hate your mom or dad. you are born with a fav team.

[YardRat]

I'll take the hits as soon as I'm the one making the picks.

[Don't Panic]

Spiller does not equal Maybin in the slightest. Maybin isn't on the field because he doesn't have the ability to play at this level. The door was wide open for him this year and he was miles away from walking through it. Spiller started the year #3 on the depth chart and has yet to be used properly by the guy who took him. No excuse for Spiller, but definitely a different situation than Maybin's.

And if you look back at this board just before that draft, you'll find some people who liked Maybin but I will bet the majority were in favor of someone else.

[elltrain22]

Way I see it a REAL fan has 2 options. Option 1 is to be optimistic, which, at times, can be a bit unrealistic. Option 2 is to be criticize everything we do, always think, no matter what, that bad things are gonna happen, and never enjoy anything at all about this team. I think for most on this board, that we chose Option 1, b/c its more fun, and b/c we are fans, and REAL fans would never, ever, ever think about not supporting their team. Period.

[bf1]

I blame fans for sending the message this past season that they are happy with the "improvement" from 6-10 to 4-12.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

The fans can talk with their money.

Until 2010, the fans have spoken-- and said "thank you sir may I have another."

Now they're finally waking up. There were three blackouts last year. Some rich sadist prevented a fourth. Think about it: that's a majority of the team's games not selling out. The fans are waking up.

No playoffs, no money.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the way it should be.

[JCBills]

I blame fans for sending the message this past season that they are happy with the "improvement" from 6-10 to 4-12.

So every time a new staff has taken over they've fixed the team in one season? Interesting.

[bf1]

So every time a new staff has taken over they've fixed the team in one season? Interesting.

No. But going backwards is no reason to rejoice.

[G Wolly]

No. But going backwards is no reason to rejoice.

Backwards in record.

Forward in competitiveness.

[bf1]

Backwards in record.

Forward in competitiveness.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[PTI]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

You do realize the Bills scored an average of 11.6 points in their last 6 games, right? 12.6 in the last 5 that Fitz started before the mercy sitting in the finale against the Jets so the last memory of the season everyone had was how bad Brohm was instead of how bad Fitz actually is.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Why don't you just go ahead and throw change onto the ice while you are at it!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

So every time a new staff has taken over they've fixed the team in one season? Interesting.
Vick did it.

[bf1]

You do realize the Bills scored an average of 11.6 points in their last 6 games, right? 12.6 in the last 5 that Fitz started before the mercy sitting in the finale against the Jets so the last memory of the season everyone had was how bad Brohm was instead of how bad Fitz actually is.

Preaching to the choir buddy.

[bf1]

Why don't you just go ahead and throw change onto the ice while you are at it!

I'm not a native Long Islander, so I would never do such a thing. :shakeno:

[PTI]

Preaching to the choir buddy.

Meant to quote the guy above you saying how competitive the Bills were.

[trapezeus]

teams that do the one year turnaround have a core of expertise and get a few players to play better.

the bills had some players play better. the line, the QB, the WR played up.

The d is barely an NFL caliber D. as a result, there is nothing to build on until you give it some strength. 200 yard rushing should happen once every couple years. it happened 8 times to the billls. the bills gave up 30+ points 8 times this year. i'd think if they had even a mid range to below average d, the could have easily passed the 6-10 mark.

the worst thing about deeming if it's truly an improvement is that the bills weren't even in the same stadium when they played playoff teams. steelers game aside, the rest of the games vs the jets and pats, vikings (playoff talent), greenbay, etc, it was unacceptable.

[Mike]

Way I see it a REAL fan has 2 options. Option 1 is to be optimistic, which, at times, can be a bit unrealistic. Option 2 is to be criticize everything we do, always think, no matter what, that bad things are gonna happen, and never enjoy anything at all about this team. I think for most on this board, that we chose Option 1, b/c its more fun, and b/c we are fans, and REAL fans would never, ever, ever think about not supporting their team. Period.


There is a 3rd Option, Being a Realist! When Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, Reed, etc played on this team it was correct in thinking that we had a Good Team and Good Players, with Potential that materialized. Being optimistic about the 1990's Bills was Realistic because they were Good!
Now, 20years later, we barely have any real talent. Our FO and coaching has been poor. Our talent is below average and instead of being a playoff contender year after year, we have not made the playoffs in 10 years! Now, this is the reality. To be optimistic about such a team is borderline insanity. The reality is loud and clear, yet at the beginning of every year there is at least one poster who predicts we go 16-0.

[Mad Max]

The Bills are in the bottom third of the league in historical win %. The Seahawks have a better winning %.

Blame goes to one person, and that person is not me.

[SABURZFAN]

the only thing that's you can fault the fans for is being loyal to their football team. too bad The Old Fart isn't loyal to the fans who made him millions of dollars.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Its also Partially Fans Fault for Supporting OBD and Jauron the first 3yrs. I remember the pick and how STRONGLY most Bills Fans Defended it!!! Even after year one, when it was obvious which way things are going, Fans defended the pick always alluding to the idea that OBD must know something about these players and the draft that we don't -obviously false. So, in retrospect, if you were in DJ's shoes and for 3years or so, and you had the blind support of Bills fans everywhere wouldn't you think you were right too?

Now, are many of us doing this Same thing all over again? I know many defended Spiller when he was drafted and are defending him again after showing very little... If you are one of those fans, and Spiller and the Current Administration Fail, its part your fault as well for supporting bad football decisions.
Fans support their favorite team, it's why they are called fans. Fan is short for fanatic. The definition of fanatic is a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm for an item, a common event, or ideology. Fans can also be known as devotees which means people who show more than ordinary support for, adherence to, or interest in a cause, point of view, or activity. Supporting the team is what we do.

Now, to the point at hand. Somehow the Internet and new forms of communication have given some people the false impression that somehow we as fans play a bigger role in what happens in these games than we actually do. For some people these days its becoming more difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality.

It is a fact that unless we as fans have say in contract negotiations, who plays on Sundays, who doesn't, how practices are run, and who this team drafts, or picks up in free agency, no fan is at fault, not even partially. Its not a fans job, nor will it ever be a fans job to determine how this team prepares for their games, who the owner decides to run the team, who the front office chooses to hire to coach the team, or who that coach chooses to play for him. The very thought that it might be some fans at fault for showing up to games is absolutely ludicrous and absurd in my opinion.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

the only thing that's you can fault the fans for is being loyal to their football team. too bad The Old Fart isn't loyal to the fans who made him millions of dollars.
First off, teams with loyal fans-- tend to do very poorly. Bills, Browns, Raiders, Chiefs... all bottom-feeders. Second, the networks throw over $3 billion a year at the NFL, and Ralph gets a $100M cut of that-- that speaks a lot louder than any ticket sales or anything the fans can do.

He listens a lot harder to Rupert Murdoch or Sumner Redstone than any of us.

[justasportsfan]

its a fans fault for not being fairweathered fans? Really?

[elltrain22]

There is a 3rd Option, Being a Realist! When Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, Reed, etc played on this team it was correct in thinking that we had a Good Team and Good Players, with Potential that materialized. Being optimistic about the 1990's Bills was Realistic because they were Good!
Now, 20years later, we barely have any real talent. Our FO and coaching has been poor. Our talent is below average and instead of being a playoff contender year after year, we have not made the playoffs in 10 years! Now, this is the reality. To be optimistic about such a team is borderline insanity. The reality is loud and clear, yet at the beginning of every year there is at least one poster who predicts we go 16-0.

Not too many arguements w/ what you're saying. Yeah, our team is not good. We def' lack talent, depth, coaching, and brains. Alls I'm saying is, just b/c that is the case, doesn't mean you stop cheering for your team. I hate fair-weather fans (not at all saying you are one). One of the biggest jobs a fan can do is remain loyal; through thick and thin. Its also our job to be realistic (like you say), but I totally disagree, that b/c we're realistic, doesn't mean we should ever cheer any less for our team. A good fan remains loyal at all times.

[bf1]

its a fans fault for not being fairweathered fans? Really?

Fairweather is one thing.

Saying the team "improved" from 6-10 to 4-12 is another.

It's one thing to question the front offices' ineptitude. It's another to keep on believing in them year after year after year of the same old thing.

[justasportsfan]

Fairweather is one thing.

Saying the team "improved" from 6-10 to 4-12 is another..who expected the team to go further than 6-10 anyways especially after the last coach ruined the team? I didn't. BUt I am glad that that we fired the last coach.



It's one thing to question the front offices' ineptitude. It's another to keep on believing in them year after year after year of the same old thing.

you would have called Scott Pioli bumbling Pioli after their 5-11 year as NE's GM

[Jan Reimers]

If you're the fan of a big market team, you have the luxury of supporting the team through thick and thin, or showing your disdain by not supporting them when they're down. The Jets, Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Pats et. al. ain't goin' nowhere.

With a small market team like the Bills, you need to support them. If enough fans turn away, the team might just pack up and get out of dodge (I realize they might do that anyway, but why give them more ammunition?). Then you won't even have a team to piss and moan about.

[bf1]

who expected the team to go further than 6-10 anyways especially after the last coach ruined the team? I didn't. BUt I am glad that that we fired the last coach.




you would have called Polian BUmbling Polian after 1 year.

I would if Polian sat on his hands for an entire year. Polian was making moves.

I didn't expect the team to go more than 6-10 because BUMBLING BUDDY did nothing (NOTHING) to improve the team. The team is no better talent wise than it was a year ago. Thanks to BUMBLING BUDDY!

[bf1]

If you're the fan of a big market team, you have the luxury of supporting the team through thick and thin, or showing your disdain by not supporting them when they're down. The Jets, Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Pats et. al. ain't goin' nowhere.

With a small market team like the Bills, you need to support them. If enough fans turn away, the team might just pack up and get out of dodge (I realize they might do that anyway, but why give them more ammunition?). Then you won't even have a team to piss and moan about.

Don't forget Pittsburgh and Green Bay. Oh wait, they are not big market teams now, are they?

Do all small market teams suffer 11+ years of sub-mediocrity?

[justasportsfan]

I would if Polian sat on his hands for an entire year. Polian was making moves.

I didn't expect the team to go more than 6-10 because BUMBLING BUDDY did nothing (NOTHING) to improve the team. The team is no better talent wise than it was a year ago. Thanks to BUMBLING BUDDY!


I edited my last post to make it more accurate.

BY your logic Pioli did NOTHING for the Pats after he took an8-8 team and made them go 5-11 in his first year.

And he did NOTHING for the chiefs either.

A little too early to be judging anyone after one year.

[bf1]

I edited my last post to make it more accurate.

BY your logic Pioli did NOTHING for the Pats after he took an8-8 team and made them go 5-11 in his first year.

And he did NOTHING for the chiefs either.

A little too early to be judging anyone after one year.

Nix did nothing. Nothing. An entire year and for all intents and purposes all that changed is an exchange of Lynch and Spiller. The rest either equals or worse. Nothing better.

[justasportsfan]

Nix did nothing. Nothing. An entire year and for all intents and purposes all that changed is an exchange of Lynch and Spiller. The rest either equals or worse. Nothing better.
I thought you said you like Gailey. That something.

[bf1]

I thought you said you like Gailey. That something.

I guess.

[PTI]

I edited my last post to make it more accurate.

BY your logic Pioli did NOTHING for the Pats after he took an8-8 team and made them go 5-11 in his first year.

And he did NOTHING for the chiefs either.

A little too early to be judging anyone after one year.
Pioli only hit a home on Brady and helped lay the foundation for the most successful franchise (with the Steelers) in the last 10 years......UGH. He was a Draft machine. That Patriots team BTW went from 11 wns to 10 wins to 9 wins to 8 wins and then to 5 wins on a team that had 85 yards rushing a game, worst in the league. He did incredible to win the Super Bowl one year later.

Brought in Cassel who played Pro Bowl in year 2 with the Chiefs after drafting him with the Patriots. Helped bring in Crennel and Weis to help with offense and defense in year 2 and it worked.

Bills better hope Wannstandt can help the defense. You are dead wring on Pioli.

Look at his boy Dimitroff in Atlanta too. Home runs. Both guys. Nix = foul ball so far, and might be a swing and a miss. Our high draft picks barely saw the field last year.

[Jan Reimers]

Don't forget Pittsburgh and Green Bay. Oh wait, they are not big market teams now, are they?

Do all small market teams suffer 11+ years of sub-mediocrity?
You missed my point by a mile.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

If you're the fan of a big market team, you have the luxury of supporting the team through thick and thin, or showing your disdain by not supporting them when they're down. The Jets, Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Pats et. al. ain't goin' nowhere.

With a small market team like the Bills, you need to support them. If enough fans turn away, the team might just pack up and get out of dodge (I realize they might do that anyway, but why give them more ammunition?). Then you won't even have a team to piss and moan about.
So is it better to have a loser than it is to have no team at all?

I don't think so.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I edited my last post to make it more accurate.

BY your logic Pioli did NOTHING for the Pats after he took an8-8 team and made them go 5-11 in his first year.

And he did NOTHING for the chiefs either.

A little too early to be judging anyone after one year.
Pioli DID do nothing. The rise of Tom Brady was the equivalent of hitting the Powerball jackpot-- pure luck, and nothing more. Had Bledsoe not been injured, Tom Brady would have been a career backup.

[justasportsfan]

Pioli DID do nothing. The rise of Tom Brady was the equivalent of hitting the Powerball jackpot-- pure luck, and nothing more. Had Bledsoe not been injured, Tom Brady would have been a career backup.
Did he also miss in Wilfork,etc.? When you say he did NOTHING, thats your opinion. FAct is he was the GM of a Dynasty. I'll take facts over your opinion.

he is also failing at Kansas?

[PTI]

Pioli DID do nothing. The rise of Tom Brady was the equivalent of hitting the Powerball jackpot-- pure luck, and nothing more. Had Bledsoe not been injured, Tom Brady would have been a career backup.

I really doubt that. Brady was going to play that season regardless if Bledsoe got hurt or not. I already posted this, but Pioli and Belichek drafted Brady, Bledsoe was not the guy they were tied to, and the Patriots were on a complete downward spiral, they went from 11 wins, to 10 wins, to 9 wins, to 8 wins, to 5 wins to starting out 0-2 with Bledsoe and him getting hurt. I think it is foolish to think that they would not have turned to Brady, all signs were pointing that way, and the fans were fed up with Bledsoe there too.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Nix did nothing. Nothing. An entire year and for all intents and purposes all that changed is an exchange of Lynch and Spiller. The rest either equals or worse. Nothing better.

Stop saying 'nothing'. That's a lie.

[bf1]

Stop saying 'nothing'. That's a lie.

What has he done then? Enlighten me.

[justasportsfan]

What has he done then? Enlighten me.

He's attempting to fix Dicks mess starting with getting rid of Trent.

[PTI]

He's attempting to fix Dicks mess starting with getting rid of Trent.

Hope he gets a new QB. It is hard to only win 4 games. You need bad bounces, and a good amount of them. I firmly believe the Bills would have won 4 games if Trent stayed QB. 4 wins is truly awful.

As is hardly playing anyone you draft on a crappy team like happened this past season. Might as well stink with rookies and newer players playing. They didn't do that. I think it was a big mistake.

[Jan Reimers]

So is it better to have a loser than it is to have no team at all?

I don't think so.
My point is, it is better to have a bad team than no team at all. You always have a chance that your bad team will get better, and you always have the experience of watching big time sports. So do everything you can in terms of support to keep your small market team.

When your team moves out of town, you're done.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

My point is, it is better to have a bad team than no team at all. You always have a chance that your bad team will get better, and you always have the experience of watching big time sports. So do everything you can in terms of support to keep your small market team.

When your team moves out of town, you're done.
Houston, Cleveland, St. Louis, and Baltimore would disagree. Unfortunately, in the case of the first two, they're worse than before.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I really doubt that. Brady was going to play that season regardless if Bledsoe got hurt or not. I already posted this, but Pioli and Belichek drafted Brady, Bledsoe was not the guy they were tied to, and the Patriots were on a complete downward spiral, they went from 11 wins, to 10 wins, to 9 wins, to 8 wins, to 5 wins to starting out 0-2 with Bledsoe and him getting hurt. I think it is foolish to think that they would not have turned to Brady, all signs were pointing that way, and the fans were fed up with Bledsoe there too.
Then why did he wait until the sixth round to pick him up? Under that logic Levi Brown is the Bills' quarterback of the future.

[Jan Reimers]

Houston, Cleveland, St. Louis, and Baltimore would disagree. Unfortunately, in the case of the first two, they're worse than before.
I said in a previous post that even if fans support a small market team, it still might move. But I think you have a better chance of keeping them if there is strong support.