Definition of a 'Franchise' Quarterback

[YardRat]

What's yours?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

as a prospect, or a proven one?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

as a prospect it would be a strong arm, can make all the throws, is over 6'2, is smart, and has shown he can read defenses well at the college level along with leadership, and a winning record.

[THRILLHO]

I personally do not use the term, but when I hear it I think of: "A QB that is the unquestioned starter of a team."

[YardRat]

Not as a prospect...an established, NFL level franchise QB.

[YardRat]

I personally do not use the term, but when I hear it I think of: "A QB that is the unquestioned starter of a team."

Like Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick, this past season?

[X-Era]

Ryan Fitzpatrick

[Nighthawk]

Like Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick, this past season?

Honestly, don't ever use Ryan Fitzpatrick in the same sentence as "franchise QB"...it makes you look silly.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Honestly, don't ever use Ryan Fitzpatrick in the same sentence as "franchise QB"...it makes you look silly.

I think that was his point, though.

[Nighthawk]

I think that was his point, though.

I'm not sure...but if it wasn't...then it looks stupid.

[Don't Panic]

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Fitzfranchise. We finally have our nickname.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

A quarterback that can, on a consistent basis, lead your team to the playoffs.

It's as simple as that.

[Beebe's Kid]

It's like global warming...it isn't real, it is just something Al Gore made up...like the Interweb.

[elltrain22]

Franchise QB:

- an undeniable winner
- knack for the clutch
- can will team to win
- can compensate for defense not playing well
- can read coverage well
- great stats
- perenial pro bowler
- face of the team
- has command and respect in the huddle
- his best comes against the best
- SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN THIS LEAGUE, IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT WINNING!!!!!


I love Fitz, but he isn't half of these.

[YardRat]

A quarterback that can, on a consistent basis, lead your team to the playoffs.

It's as simple as that.

So Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Schaub, etc aren't franchise QB's?

Are Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Vick or Freeman?

[Beebe's Kid]

So Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Schaub, etc aren't franchise QB's?

Are Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Vick or Freeman?

Whoa, whoa, whoa...it's as simple as that...don't go trying to complicate this discussion. When the Fonz has spoken you better just sit on it.

This is an awesome thread by the way.

I don't believe in the the term, but "WE NEED ONE!!" Now you ask what is it, and nobody has any ****ing idea....

You could even go a step further and have people make a little list of who they think is a franchise QB...or a list of all the teams and all franchise QB's they've ever had...then shoot holes all through it.

Why? Because it's a ****ing myth. You need a guy that does the job at a high level for a long period of time.

What do you want? I would like to win a ****ing Super Bowl. There is a funny correlation between Super Bowl winning QB's and really good defenses. I'm sure that there will be a few exceptions to the rule, but to deny a correlation would end the need for any further discussion.

This thread should be epic when the usual suspects show up and start getting all militant about drafting a QB.

Solid ****ing gold, Yardie!!

[Beebe's Kid]

Franchise QB:

- an undeniable winner
- knack for the clutch
- can will team to win
- can compensate for defense not playing well
- can read coverage well
- great stats
- perenial pro bowler
- face of the team
- has command and respect in the huddle
- his best comes against the best
- SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO HAVE IN THIS LEAGUE, IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT WINNING!!!!!


I love Fitz, but he isn't half of these.
Who has all of this on their resume?

[sdbillsfan2]

a franchise Qb.to me is a guy with enough talent (steps above average) to build the rest of the franchise around ,without sacrificing any aspect of the game offensively year in and year out. NE just keeps plugging WRs and rbs behind Brady without the offense taking a huge step back.Same with Manning and Rivers. The talent around them may change but they still preform above the norm.
Consistency is the key.. You can hope your drafting a franchise player but until he goes out and proves he's worthy year in and out ..he's just another rookie.
Big arms and smarts are not the only things,,, We have one of the brightest guys in the NFl , but we can't call fitz franchise. JP had the gun ,but no smarts,
Edwards had some tools but no heart. .... None of these guys can ever be known as a franchise guy. Sam Bradford showed glimpses of being a future star, but i don't see too many other newbies I can say the same about.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I personally do not use the term, but when I hear it I think of: "A QB that is the unquestioned starter of a team."

i agree with that!

[Commissioner]

Blaine Gabbert

[Michael82]

Ryan Fitzpatrick
:rofl:

[Night Train]

Blaine Gabbert
So it's someone with imaginary NFL talent who could help or kill a franchise for years ?

[X-Era]

Blaine GabbertHas plenty of potential to become one, I agree. Consistency is the area that he needs to improve but I see no reason he won't if he's properly groomed.

[X-Era]

:rofl:Fine. I'll play for real...

NOT Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I'd like a quarterback who will regularly lead the offense to dominate average or sub-par defenses in yards and points, and who can consistently score enough points for wins against good defenses.

Which again is not Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[Beebe's Kid]

Has plenty of potential to become one, I agree. Consistency is the area that he needs to improve but I see no reason he won't if he's properly groomed.

It is fairly common that a lot of QB's get there inconsistency out of them at the college level, then come to the pros and tear it up.

Saying that, Gabbert was almost horrible down the stretch, so he has to be the answer.

I know, I know...the game tape hadn't rolled in yet, so Gabbert was the best kept secret in the world...that's my favorite. QB's that are going to be high 1st rounders, usually never surface until the end of the year...no really. People usually don't notice how good they are, because you need to watch the game tape. It is fairly uncommon that anybody notices good to great QB play during the season. They don't turn anybody's heads...not until the tape rolls in.

Properly groomed? Like a show dog? How do we have time for a good grooming with the abomination which is Ryan Fitzpatrick (:rofl:) playing?

So the answer to "Franchise QB" is not Ryan Fitzpatrick...that we "know." Wow..."knowing" things is a lot easier than I had been previously aware. It's not a whole lot different than just having an opinion. I mean sure you have to throw "the talk" around a little, but there's really nothing to it.

Gabbert it is...I mean we "know" he's not Ryan Fitzpatrick...we "know" he didn't leave his best play on college field...we "know" he's new, and if properly groomed will be the answer. If he sucks...it wouldn't be because he was not good, or he was the QB he showed he was in college, it would be the groomers fault...or Ryan Fitzpatrick for not being good enough to buy him the time he needs.

[DraftBoy]

There are only two franchise QB's in my mind in this league;

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady

You want a definition, look at those two.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

So Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Schaub, etc aren't franchise QB's?

Are Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Vick or Freeman?
Eli went to the playoffs for four straight years. So did Rivers. Palmer and Schaub, I agree, aren't franchise QBs.

Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco? Unconventional, yes, but they get the job done. Heck, I'd even count the now-departed Doug Flutie in the category. But Freeman?? He's only played two years-- we have no idea yet.

[elltrain22]

Who has all of this on their resume?

W/O a doubt: Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Ryan, Brees, Big Ben,

Maybe or maybe not: Schaub, Eli Manning, Tony Homo, Vick

[justasportsfan]

There really isn't one definition of a franchise qb because everyone is different. But you can pick out the franchise qb's like Peyton, Brady,Rodgers, Brees

[ddaryl]

My personal definition of a franchise QB;

Franchise QB is a player who can lead from the position. One who can put players into positions to get the most from them and for the team. A player with enough athletic ability and arm to utilize the intense cognitive portion of this game

A franchise QB is

a.) One with solid cognitive ability capable of not just watching film but honestly comprehending what an opposing D is attempting.

b.) One who can make proper adjustments based on looks learned from experience and attribute a.)

c.) One capable of understanding where 3- 4 targets will be in a matter of 4 seconds or less

d.) One with the Athletic intangibles to perform the duties necessary after successfully performing a-c

[Mr. Pink]

A guy who can carry the team on his back to victories, a guy who consistently wins regardless of what's around him, there is no conventional answer to this in my opinion.

Brady is a franchise guy - he can win regardless of what NE has on offense around him.

Manning - another guy who consistently wins regardless of what happens around him.

Vick actually was one when he was in Atlanta, Atlanta won even though they had no receiving weapons on the outside.

If you don't agree the above is a franchise guy, one thing you can agree on is that they are all winners...and I'd rather take a winner regardless of how the winning is arrived at.

[Bill Cody]

a franchise qb is someone who makes drafting a QB not a consideration for a team. Sometimes a guy can be one and then just get old, like a Donovan McNabb.

[PromoTheRobot]

What's yours?

Franchise QB is a meaningless term coined by some draft guru.

PTR

[Figster]

The kind of fella that lands a multimillion dollar deal with Under Armour before he ever even steps foot into the NFL is my definition of franchise QB,

MERCY!!!

Newton already raking it, by Chris Brown

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/02/14/newton-already-raking-it/

[Philagape]

The kind of fella that lands a multimillion dollar deal with Under Armour before he ever even steps foot into the NFL is my definition of franchise QB

Is this supposed to be humorous?
Normally I think it would be, but can't tell with you since you're his BZ agent.

[Figster]

Is this supposed to be humorous?
Normally I think it would be, but can't tell with you since you're his BZ agent.


Part humor, part seriousness actually Philagape, Cam Newton is the ultimate franchise QB prospect in my opinion.

[YardRat]

Eli went to the playoffs for four straight years. So did Rivers. Palmer and Schaub, I agree, aren't franchise QBs.

Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco? Unconventional, yes, but they get the job done. Heck, I'd even count the now-departed Doug Flutie in the category. But Freeman?? He's only played two years-- we have no idea yet.

Eli's missed the last two, and Rivers didn't this season. Are both of them no longer 'franchise' guys? Should NY and SD be looking at QB this draft to replace them with somebody that might lead them back to the playoffs?

[X-Era]

A guy who can carry the team on his back to victories, a guy who consistently wins regardless of what's around him, there is no conventional answer to this in my opinion.

Brady is a franchise guy - he can win regardless of what NE has on offense around him.

Manning - another guy who consistently wins regardless of what happens around him.

Vick actually was one when he was in Atlanta, Atlanta won even though they had no receiving weapons on the outside.

If you don't agree the above is a franchise guy, one thing you can agree on is that they are all winners...and I'd rather take a winner regardless of how the winning is arrived at.Fitz is a winner... he won 4 games.

[X-Era]

Eli's missed the last two, and Rivers didn't this season. Are both of them no longer 'franchise' guys? Should NY and SD be looking at QB this draft to replace them with somebody that might lead them back to the playoffs?Lets trade them Fitz.

[Mr. Pink]

Fitz is a winner... he won 4 games.


Then so was JP Losman. And Trent Edwards. And Bruce Mathison. And the myriad of ass clowns this franchise has pushed off on the fanbase as starting quarterbacks.

[better days]

Then so was JP Losman. And Trent Edwards. And Bruce Mathison. And the myriad of ass clowns this franchise has pushed off on the fanbase as starting quarterbacks.

Wow, people are just not getting the sarcasm on this board lately.

[Mr. Pink]

Wow, people are just not getting the sarcasm on this board lately.


You can now include yourself in that list. Congratulations!

[better days]

You can now include yourself in that list. Congratulations!

Well if your post was supposed to be sarcastic I did miss it.

[Nighthawk]

Then so was JP Losman. And Trent Edwards. And Bruce Mathison. And the myriad of ass clowns this franchise has pushed off on the fanbase as starting quarterbacks.

Yeah, but don't you know that Fitz is developing!?!? Yeah, it's taken him 7 years in the NFL to actually do ANYTHING, but you know...all he needs is another 7 years and he'll start winning and have a completion percentage over 60%!

[The Jokeman]

My personal definition of a franchise QB;

Franchise QB is a player who can lead from the position. One who can put players into positions to get the most from them and for the team. A player with enough athletic ability and arm to utilize the intense cognitive portion of this game

A franchise QB is

a.) One with solid cognitive ability capable of not just watching film but honestly comprehending what an opposing D is attempting.

b.) One who can make proper adjustments based on looks learned from experience and attribute a.)

c.) One capable of understanding where 3- 4 targets will be in a matter of 4 seconds or less

d.) One with the Athletic intangibles to perform the duties necessary after successfully performing a-c
If I go by that definition then I would argue Jim Kelly was NOT a franchise QB. Which I think many would argue he was.

[better days]

If I go by that definition then I would argue Jim Kelly was NOT a franchise QB. Which I think many would argue he was.

I think any QB in the HOF can be classified a franchise QB.

[X-Era]

Yeah, but don't you know that Fitz is developing!?!? Yeah, it's taken him 7 years in the NFL to actually do ANYTHING, but you know...all he needs is another 7 years and he'll start winning and have a completion percentage over 60%!If Fitz had destroyed a single team that he should, or beaten a single team with a good defense, I would feel much better about our situation at QB. Instead were left with a guy who can't win us a game when it's all on him, and it's arguable whether he can not lose them for us either.

[The Jokeman]

If Fitz had destroyed a single team that he should, or beaten a single team with a good defense, I would feel much better about our situation at QB. Instead were left with a guy who can't win us a game when it's all on him, and it's arguable whether he can not lose them for us either.
and do you really think we're going to beat the Jets or Pats with a rookie QB in a shootout? Let's try slowing down Brady and Sanchez and maybe just maybe we could win a game 20-17 with Fitz at QB.

[Beebe's Kid]

Coming along nicely boys. A crystal ball wasn't necessary to see where this one was heading.

At least there is closure on what a "Franchise QB" is.

[better days]

If Fitz had destroyed a single team that he should, or beaten a single team with a good defense, I would feel much better about our situation at QB. Instead were left with a guy who can't win us a game when it's all on him, and it's arguable whether he can not lose them for us either.

If Fitz ever played on a good team & didn't produce it would be much easier to write him off. As it is he has only played on bad teams most with bad coaching.

I'm not saying he is the long term future, but I think if the Bills add enough around him he could win some games next year.

[THRILLHO]

Like Jay Cutler and Ryan Fitzpatrick, this past season?

Jay Cutler, Yes. He started and finished the season as the starter. I doubt there was any chatter about drafting or looking for a new starting QB.

Fitz, no. He did not start the season, and the entire season we are talking about getting a new, better QB.

Say what you will about Cutler, he made it to the Championship.

[airdog32]

There are only two franchise QB's in my mind in this league;

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady

You want a definition, look at those two.
agreed everyone else is just hanging on Franchise Qb's dont come along to often!Teams can win the superbowl w/o a franchise Qb! It is a luxuary few franschises have ever exp!

[jcdavey]

a franchise qb is really just any qb where , unless they're injured, you know who's getting the start

it's simple as that

[X-Era]

If Fitz ever played on a good team & didn't produce it would be much easier to write him off. As it is he has only played on bad teams most with bad coaching.

I'm not saying he is the long term future, but I think if the Bills add enough around him he could win some games next year.Guys, even if the version your proposing works, the day will come when you will realize that Fitz won't take you to the playoffs and sure as hell isn't good enough to take you to the SB. And when that day comes, we may have skipped a chance to get a guy who could.

Again, why is building the defense and adding a franchise potential QB mutually exclusive? If we spend the 3 pick on a QB, we have the rest of the draft and FA to work on the D. One player on the D will not make us a top 15 defense. Yet one very good QB can win us games.

Sorry, but I'm tired of retread QB's and never-has-beens. We have watched that parade for over a decade. I want to do both and as quick as possible.

[Night Train]

Luck would have been the only one with the look of a FQ coming out..but he stayed in college.

There is no such animal this year and I'm sick of chasing rainbows with early picks.

[X-Era]

Luck would have been the only one with the look of a FQ coming out..but he stayed in college.

There is no such animal this year and I'm sick of chasing rainbows with early picks. Theres plenty of DL busts too, the rainbow fits all types.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Luck would have been the only one with the look of a FQ coming out..but he stayed in college.

There is no such animal this year and I'm sick of chasing rainbows with early picks.
And I'm sick of people copping out with excuses instead of going after the people needed to improve this team. Don't tell me they don't exist. You have to be able to get to them.

[YardRat]

Guys, even if the version your proposing works, the day will come when you will realize that Fitz won't take you to the playoffs and sure as hell isn't good enough to take you to the SB. And when that day comes, we may have skipped a chance to get a guy who could.

Again, why is building the defense and adding a franchise potential QB mutually exclusive? If we spend the 3 pick on a QB, we have the rest of the draft and FA to work on the D. One player on the D will not make us a top 15 defense. Yet one very good QB can win us games.

Sorry, but I'm tired of retread QB's and never-has-beens. We have watched that parade for over a decade. I want to do both and as quick as possible.

That's the major flaw in your logic, IMO. One guy, especially at the QB position, just isn't going to make that big of a difference. Review last season's games, and see which ones we could've won with a better performance from the QB position. Then go back and review which ones we could've won if the defense could stop the run.

Very good QB's are rarer than some would like to admit, and sustained success is more likely to happen with solid lines and a solid defense. That's why Pittsburgh can continue to win w/o BigBen. That's why Reich was successful when Kelly was injured. That's why Dilfer, Hostetler, et al have Super Bowl rings. That's why every Indy fan knows in their heart that if Peyton ever gets injured they might as well start making plans for the top pick in the draft.

Why can't we get a 'franchise' QB via FA, trade or in the second round, especially this season when our second rounder is basically going to have first round abilities? Why take the higher risk/rare reward over a proven formula for winning.

[X-Era]

That's the major flaw in your logic, IMO. One guy, especially at the QB position, just isn't going to make that big of a difference. Review last season's games, and see which ones we could've won with a better performance from the QB position. Then go back and review which ones we could've won if the defense could stop the run.

Very good QB's are rarer than some would like to admit, and sustained success is more likely to happen with solid lines and a solid defense. That's why Pittsburgh can continue to win w/o BigBen. That's why Reich was successful when Kelly was injured. That's why Dilfer, Hostetler, et al have Super Bowl rings. That's why every Indy fan knows in their heart that if Peyton ever gets injured they might as well start making plans for the top pick in the draft.

Why can't we get a 'franchise' QB via FA, trade or in the second round, especially this season when our second rounder is basically going to have first round abilities? Why take the higher risk/rare reward over a proven formula for winning.Peyton Manning has never had a good defense, and recently hasn't had a good OL or a good running game. Yes, it's Manning, but still.

The days of getting to and winning a SB with a average QB drafted out of round 1 are fading away. And since we are not likely to get a top 10 defense anytime soon, I'm imagining you won't be in support of drafting a 1st round QB.

To answer your questions:

We aren't even remotely likely to get one if FA, they never hit the market. Teams don't give up their franchise QB's for nothing.

We could trade for one but will be giving up some of the ammo we need to reload this team, and again for a guy that the other team didn't want anymore.

We could try to draft one in round 2. It's a possibility.

I don't think you have answered this question. Why can't we go after both this year?

If a guy is worthy at 3, draft a QB, and then you have the rest of the draft and FA to address the defense.

[Extremebillsfan247]

What's yours?He has to be able to handle the responsibility of being such a high draft pick with such high expectations in a professional manor. You can't have the ability of a Peyton Manning with the attitude of a Vince Young and expect to succeed at the NFL level. Ability can only take you so far, character is what keeps you on top. JMO

[YardRat]

Peyton Manning has never had a good defense, and recently hasn't had a good OL or a good running game. Yes, it's Manning, but still.

The days of getting to and winning a SB with a average QB drafted out of round 1 are fading away. And since we are not likely to get a top 10 defense anytime soon, I'm imagining you won't be in support of drafting a 1st round QB.

To answer your questions:

We aren't even remotely likely to get one if FA, they never hit the market. Teams don't give up their franchise QB's for nothing.

We could trade for one but will be giving up some of the ammo we need to reload this team, and again for a guy that the other team didn't want anymore.

We could try to draft one in round 2. It's a possibility.

I don't think you have answered this question. Why can't we go after both this year?

If a guy is worthy at 3, draft a QB, and then you have the rest of the draft and FA to address the defense.

We can go after both, but we disagree on where and how. I'm fine with a 2nd round QB and don't feel it's absolutely necessary to get a QB in the first round, especially when IMO the higher priority is building the defense, which you can't do if you keep spending your premium picks on QB's.

[X-Era]

We can go after both, but we disagree on where and how. I'm fine with a 2nd round QB and don't feel it's absolutely necessary to get a QB in the first round, especially when IMO the higher priority is building the defense, which you can't do if you keep spending your premium picks on QB's.Picks? I just want to spend one.

[YardRat]

Picks? I just want to spend one.

A BIG one. On a guy with several question marks. I know you support it, but I can't. The bust factor is just too big.

[X-Era]

A BIG one. On a guy with several question marks. I know you support it, but I can't. The bust factor is just too big.That's fine, I'm actually good with a few different guys.

[stuckincincy]

What's yours?

5 year, $110 million contract with a $25 million signing bonus?