Ralph Wilson faces labor battles head on

[Figster]

Good article, interview with Ralph Wilson

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/17/ralph-wilson-faces-labor-battles-head-on/


Interesting comments on the QB situation


RW: I think it will take two or three years to have a playoff team -- and that's if we get a quarterback.''

And here is what Wilson had to say about speculation that the Bills will select Auburn quarterback Cam Newton with the draft's No. 3 pick:

"Well, he's very athletic. But it's the intangibles. We've had a number of quarterbacks that could throw the ball 100 yards and right into your stomach. But then they got into games and threw it 100 yards into the other team's stomach. There's time. We'll learn more about him. Just like with this labor agreement, you just can't predict.''

[Michael82]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:

[mikemac2001]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:


i liked the whole article to be honest. ralph didn't seem out of it

[Jan Reimers]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:
Unfortunately, Mike, based on the past 11 years, that may be optimistic.

[BidsJr]

WHAT ABOUT FITZFRANCHISE????????????????????????????????????????????/

[OpIv37]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



"They passed out a sheet that contained financial information,'' Wilson recalled of the owners meeting in March 2006 when that CBA was sanctioned. "It was not what I thought we were supposed to get. I thought there would be more discussion. I voted against it because I didn't understand the financial figures put out. And what I did understand, I didn't like.''

Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.

[DraftBoy]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.

Based on the current state of things, its clear a lot of owners didnt quite understand it.

[OpIv37]

i liked the whole article to be honest. ralph didn't seem out of it

I agree that he didn't sound out of it, but do you see what I mean when I say that Buffalo fans have accepted mediocrity? When our owner gives an interview, we are satisfied that he "didn't seem out of it," as if we're impressed that he's not a bumbling, incoherent moron.

[MikeInRoch]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:

How can you possibly look at this team and not think that's the MINIMUM it would be?

[Michael82]

Based on the current state of things, its clear a lot of owners didnt quite understand it.
Exactly. I don't think many owners realized how much the players were getting out of that deal.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.
Have you ever said "I don't understand" when you understand perfectly the situation, but don't understand why it's happening in such an unreasonable or irrational way? Do you think Ralph would right out tell the other 30 owners that they're out of their tree and wrong? Or do you simply just chalk this up as Ralph being a complete moron?

[Michael82]

How can you possibly look at this team and not think that's the MINIMUM it would be?
Because so many other teams have gutted and rebuilt their teams in a year or two. Plus I think we got quite a few pieces and lots of money under the cap to spend. I, was hoping that he said our goal is to make the playoffs in the 2012 season and that he's willing to do whenever it takes.

[psubills62]

There's a couple amusing things to me regarding the owners and the previous CBA.

First of all, the way it's been presented to the masses: players get 60% after the owners set aside $1B from the overall pot. You have to wonder - how exactly did the previous CBA make that so complicated that none of the owners seemed to understand what they were signing on for?

Second is in regards to Richardson, the Panthers' owner. When you consider that the owners are the ones who got shafted because none of them could comprehend the previous CBA, you'd think he'd keep his yap shut when talking to players about if they understand how to read certain charts.

The owners sure made themselves look stupid with the last CBA.

[streetkings01]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.Just curious.......when was the last time you had a nice vacation?

[Stewie]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT . Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.

Wrong wrong wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong.

He said at the time that they were only given 45 minutes to discuss it and that he didn't agree to it because they hadn't been given ample time to understand it.

Here is the quote from 2006 and the link

"I didn't understand it," said Buffalo's Ralph Wilson. "It is a very complicated issue and I didn't believe we should be rushing to vote in 45 minutes. I'm not a dropout ... or maybe I am. I didn't understand it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2360258

No one, I don't care who you are, can fully understand all potential implications of a multi year, multi billion dollar agreement in 45 minutes.

Clearly, the NFL and NFLPA do not know how to effectively negotiate, and we all know that last deal was put together to stave off what we are now facing.

It is dead wrong to blame Ralph in this situation.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad: That's the spirit:bf1: <-- Jauron Clap. lol...

[tampabay25690]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:

Whats wrong with that he is absolutely right.....

[OpIv37]

Have you ever said "I don't understand" when you understand perfectly the situation, but don't understand why it's happening in such an unreasonable or irrational way? Do you think Ralph would right out tell the other 30 owners that they're out of their tree and wrong? Or do you simply just chalk this up as Ralph being a complete moron?
Re-read the quote. He said he didnt understand it and didn't like what he did understand. That means there was a portion that he did not understand in the very literal sense. So yes, he was being a complete moron.

[OpIv37]

Wrong wrong wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong.

He said at the time that they were only given 45 minutes to discuss it and that he didn't agree to it because they hadn't been given ample time to understand it.

Here is the quote from 2006 and the link

"I didn't understand it," said Buffalo's Ralph Wilson. "It is a very complicated issue and I didn't believe we should be rushing to vote in 45 minutes. I'm not a dropout ... or maybe I am. I didn't understand it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2360258

No one, I don't care who you are, can fully understand all potential implications of a multi year, multi billion dollar agreement in 45 minutes.

Clearly, the NFL and NFLPA do not know how to effectively negotiate, and we all know that last deal was put together to stave off what we are now facing.

It is dead wrong to blame Ralph in this situation.
Then please explain to me why none of the other owners seemed to have trouble understanding it. It was just Ralph.

And I'm not blaming Ralph for the current situation by any means. I'm just sick of people giving him credit for not understanding something. The homer spin around here is nauseating sometimes.

[bf1]

2 to 3 years eh? No wonder why this is a losing franchise. Every year should have a now or never intensity.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Then please explain to me why none of the other owners seemed to have trouble understanding it. It was just Ralph.

And I'm not blaming Ralph for the current situation by any means. I'm just sick of people giving him credit for not understanding something. The homer spin around here is nauseating sometimes. Mike Brown, Cincy's owner also voted against it for the same reason Ralph did.

[justasportsfan]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:


if he said 1 year people will call him senile. at least he's being realistic or honest.

[trapezeus]

i like a good ralph bashing as much as the next guy, and i usually am lock step with OP on a bunch of stuff. but i think ralph is saying, "i don't understand it" based on a way of being somewhat humble about it. I'm sure he got it and thought it was a ****ty deal. it's a kinder way of saying, "i told you so"

the 2-3 years to be a playoff team is outrageous. the team squared its offensive woes and has defensive holes now. seriously, a solid defense focused draft, should make this a playoff team. not a superbowl team, but a team that can wildcard it's way to something.

if they sabotage their draft again for a gimmick non starter, yeah, it will take 3-4 years.

The vision at OBD needs to be "THIS YEAR DAMNIT!" and it's kind of stunning that a 93 year old guy is willing to be patient.

[OpIv37]

Mike Brown, Cincy's owner also voted against it for the same reason Ralph did.

And every time Mike Brown's name comes up on this website, we get a litany of reasons why he's a worse owner than Ralph.

[justasportsfan]

Based on the current state of things, its clear a lot of owners didnt quite understand it.
exactly. they were just as clueless as Ralphy but at least Ralphy admitted it.

[OpIv37]

Every year should have a now or never intensity.

Especially when you have a 92 year old owner who could keel over dead at any moment and a stadium lease with only two years remaining- two situations which have not been addressed by said 92 year old owner.

[Extremebillsfan247]

And every time Mike Brown's name comes up on this website, we get a litany of reasons why he's a worse owner than Ralph.Insulting the guy doesn't change the fact though.

[OpIv37]

exactly. they were just as clueless as Ralphy but at least Ralphy admitted it.

So now we're giving Ralph credit for admitting that he's clueless?

[justasportsfan]

So now we're giving Ralph credit for admitting that he's clueless?
no, not giving him credit. Just not put him down for being as clueless as everyone else.

[psubills62]

Then please explain to me why none of the other owners seemed to have trouble understanding it. It was just Ralph.

And I'm not blaming Ralph for the current situation by any means. I'm just sick of people giving him credit for not understanding something. The homer spin around here is nauseating sometimes.
He gets credit for wanting to do what every other owner should have done - discussed the previous CBA more thoroughly. I'm incredulous that you're giving the other owners credit for passing through something that they OBVIOUSLY didn't understand - just wanted to get it passed through. If they understood what it said, why did they nullify it first chance they got?

If I remember correctly, the owners wanted to pass it as a favor to Tagliabue. Doesn't mean they understood it in 45 minutes.

[Bill Cody]

Then please explain to me why none of the other owners seemed to have trouble understanding it. It was just Ralph.



Ok then explain this to me please: the other owner's all understood the agreement perfectly, signed on to it and are now threatening a lockout a couple years later because the terms are not to their liking.

So one of 2 things has to be true: either they failed to understand the implications of the #'s also or they signed an agreement they knew was not workable for them. Which was it?

[Extremebillsfan247]

i like a good ralph bashing as much as the next guy, and i usually am lock step with OP on a bunch of stuff. but i think ralph is saying, "i don't understand it" based on a way of being somewhat humble about it. I'm sure he got it and thought it was a ****ty deal. it's a kinder way of saying, "i told you so"

the 2-3 years to be a playoff team is outrageous. the team squared its offensive woes and has defensive holes now. seriously, a solid defense focused draft, should make this a playoff team. not a superbowl team, but a team that can wildcard it's way to something.

if they sabotage their draft again for a gimmick non starter, yeah, it will take 3-4 years.

The vision at OBD needs to be "THIS YEAR DAMNIT!" and it's kind of stunning that a 93 year old guy is willing to be patient.
A decision made in haste will rarely ever equate to a favorable result. In the NFL haste builds one year wonders, while patience and careful planning builds dynasties. I guess its about personal preference.

[OpIv37]

He gets credit for wanting to do what every other owner should have done - discussed the previous CBA more thoroughly. I'm incredulous that you're giving the other owners credit for passing through something that they OBVIOUSLY didn't understand - just wanted to get it passed through. If they understood what it said, why did they nullify it first chance they got?

If I remember correctly, the owners wanted to pass it as a favor to Tagliabue. Doesn't mean they understood it in 45 minutes.

then they're stupid for passing something they didn't understand, but so what? At the end of the day, all Ralph did was admit that he didn't understand something.

I don't understand brain surgery.
I don't understand quantum physics.
I don't understand why some of you insist on defending a terrible owner who is the major reason why your favorite football team can't win.

Where are my kudos? I admitted that I don't understand- NOW GIVE ME CREDIT!

[OpIv37]

Ok then explain this to me please: the other owner's all understood the agreement perfectly, signed on to it and are now threatening a lockout a couple years later because the terms are not to their liking.

So one of 2 things has to be true: either they failed to understand the implications of the #'s also or they signed an agreement they knew was not workable for them. Which was it?

Don't care.

All Ralph did was admit that he didn't understand, and everyone wants to give him credit. Just because the other owners did something stupid doesn't mean we have to spin this into giving Ralph credit for admitting his stupidity when the others didn't.

[Stewie]

Is it better to believe you understand something but be wrong, or spend more time to understand it?

[better days]

There's a couple amusing things to me regarding the owners and the previous CBA.

First of all, the way it's been presented to the masses: players get 60% after the owners set aside $1B from the overall pot. You have to wonder - how exactly did the previous CBA make that so complicated that none of the owners seemed to understand what they were signing on for?

Second is in regards to Richardson, the Panthers' owner. When you consider that the owners are the ones who got shafted because none of them could comprehend the previous CBA, you'd think he'd keep his yap shut when talking to players about if they understand how to read certain charts.

The owners sure made themselves look stupid with the last CBA.

Well if you look at any legal/financial document you know NONE of them are written that clearly & concisely.

That is how lawyers make their money, by writing long convoluted contracts that only other lawyers can understand.

[OpIv37]

Is it better to believe you understand something but be wrong, or spend more time to understand it?

It's better to just understand it in the first place. Being "less bad" is still bad.

[madness]

Then please explain to me why none of the other owners seemed to have trouble understanding it. It was just Ralph.

And I'm not blaming Ralph for the current situation by any means. I'm just sick of people giving him credit for not understanding something. The homer spin around here is nauseating sometimes.

You mean the owners who once realized what they voted on, "backed out quicker than a crawfish"?

[justasportsfan]

It's better to just understand it in the first place. .

the other 30 owners didn't understand it. I too don't think this team is getting anywhere with Ralphy, but this case he shouldn't be blasted .

[madness]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:

He's just repeating what Nix told us last year. This should be common knowledge by now.

[OpIv37]

I'll give Ralph credit for one thing: being a great businessman.

Every year, he sells us an inferior product. Every year, we buy merch and people in town buy tickets and people out of town buy Sunday Ticket and we get excited and we spend our Sunday afternoons watching the game (and the TV ads that pay for the game).

And every year the team sucks, but when the next year rolls around, we can't wait to go give Ralph more of our money.

And some of you even take it a step further by going on the Internet to stand up for him, despite the fact that his team has been the very definition of "incompetent" for the majority of his ownership.

[better days]

He's just repeating what Nix told us last year. This should be common knowledge by now.

Nix told us 2-3 years to make the playoffs a year ago. The time line should now be 1-2 years.

[trapezeus]

the thing is the bills are living in this pre-free agency world for 11 years. take a long time to build and keep your players and win.

That simply doesn't work right now. you need to get your youth to work for you. you need smart drafts. last year's draft was mediocre, but you can't keep sitting your first rounders, especially in the top 12 picks. they have to start and be an impact.

this team's offense is fine. we badly need the d to be a bad nfl defense. last year it was a bad high school defense.

[madness]

"They passed out a sheet that contained financial information,'' Wilson recalled of the owners meeting in March 2006 when that CBA was sanctioned. "It was not what I thought we were supposed to get. I thought there would be more discussion. I voted against it because I didn't understand the financial figures put out. And what I did understand, I didn't like.''

The owners vowed after that entire negotiating experience that they would not allow dissension and disagreement within their ranks to surface so freely in any future negotiating process. They believed the players got the better of them in solidarity the last time. They are bent on that not happening to them this time.

Spin that, homers! The president of my company can read, understand and sign a major contract in minutes. WTF is wrong with Ralph?

[Extremebillsfan247]

Thanks to the OP for the story. Looking back, we will all miss these little appearances by Ralph Wilson when he's eventually gone. I also apologize if I don't sympathize with the anti Ralph establishment. Maybe this group could get together on Facebook, or Twitter and organize an anti Ralph revolution. It worked for Egypt, lol. But in all reality, all this hate for a guy we don't know on a personal level is quite laughable and more like :monkeyp: in the wind. But that's my opinion.

[better days]

the thing is the bills are living in this pre-free agency world for 11 years. take a long time to build and keep your players and win.

That simply doesn't work right now. you need to get your youth to work for you. you need smart drafts. last year's draft was mediocre, but you can't keep sitting your first rounders, especially in the top 12 picks. they have to start and be an impact.

this team's offense is fine. we badly need the d to be a bad nfl defense. last year it was a bad high school defense.

The Packers & Steelers both use the blueprint that the Bills want to employ. The Redskins are the epitome of a team that tries to build through freeagency.

[OpIv37]

Thanks to the OP for the story. Looking back, we will all miss these little appearances by Ralph Wilson when he's eventually gone. I also apologize if I don't sympathize with the anti Ralph establishment. Maybe this group could get together on Facebook, or Twitter and organize an anti Ralph revolution. It worked for Egypt, lol. But in all reality, all this hate for a guy we don't know on a personal level is quite laughable and more like :monkeyp: in the wind. But that's my opinion.

I never said I hated the guy. I hate the way he runs the team.

I don't know the guy. He might be a very nice guy, he might be a complete ass. But neither case has any bearing on the fact that he's still a crappy owner.

And if you really are an "extreme Bills fan" as your username suggests, then not sympathizing with the "anti Ralph establishment" is counter-intuitive. Being a fan means, by definition, that you want the team to win. The major reason why the team doesn't win is the way Ralph runs it. You can't say you want the team to win AND you support Ralph because the two are mutually exclusive. It's one or the other.

[psubills62]

then they're stupid for passing something they didn't understand, but so what? At the end of the day, all Ralph did was admit that he didn't understand something.

I don't understand brain surgery.
I don't understand quantum physics.
I don't understand why some of you insist on defending a terrible owner who is the major reason why your favorite football team can't win.

Where are my kudos? I admitted that I don't understand- NOW GIVE ME CREDIT!

Where did I say he got credit for saying he didn't understand something? I said, which you apparently ignored, that he got credit for not wanting to pass it without further discussion.

It would have been very easy for him to just say "OK, every other owner seems fine with it, let's just pass it," and then kept quiet.

Nobody's saying he deserves to be worshiped for not understanding something. He deserves at least some acknowledgment for not just sitting there and taking whatever the other owners say as gospel.

It's odd that you chastise other fans for doing that with the Bills, while crucifying a man for exemplifying the very behavior you seem to idealize..

[M]

The CBA was a 300 page document. I'm going to bet that none of the owners understood it in 45 minutes.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I never said I hated the guy. I hate the way he runs the team.

I don't know the guy. He might be a very nice guy, he might be a complete ass. But neither case has any bearing on the fact that he's still a crappy owner.

And if you really are an "extreme Bills fan" as your username suggests, then not sympathizing with the "anti Ralph establishment" is counter-intuitive. Being a fan means, by definition, that you want the team to win. The major reason why the team doesn't win is the way Ralph runs it. You can't say you want the team to win AND you support Ralph because the two are mutually exclusive. It's one or the other. And for my 1,000th post, you cant always get what you want, sometimes you find, you get what you need. Think about that.

[OpIv37]

And for my 1,000th post, you cant always get what you want, sometimes you find, you get what you need. Think about that.

huh? It's football-it's just entertainment. None of us need it at all. The fans of the Packers who won the SB or the Panthers who had the worst record in football didn't need it either.

And no, we can't always get what we want, but when you don't get what you want, you shouldn't be turning around defending the guy that's keeping you from getting it.

[OpIv37]

The CBA was a 300 page document. I'm going to bet that none of the owners understood it in 45 minutes.

so 30 of the 32 were willing to just blatantly vote on a 300 page document that describes how billions of dollars will be managed without reading or understanding it? I have a hard time believing that.

[better days]

so 30 of the 32 were willing to just blatantly vote on a 300 page document that describes how billions of dollars will be managed without reading or understanding it? I have a hard time believing that.

Believe it or not...............I think there was a TV show by that name. I find it totally believable myself.

[Prov401]

Two or Three years??? **** you, Ralph! :mad:

lol. Do you expect us to make the playoffs this year?

He said it may take more than one year. I agree with that.

[OpIv37]

Believe it or not...............I think there was a TV show by that name. I find it totally believable myself.

my guess is that there were large portions of the document that were not in dispute and the 45 minutes was set aside to read/discuss the portions where the owners and the players had to come to some sort of compromise. But we're talking about 32 guys who are millionaires and in some cases billionaires. They didn't get to that position by making rash decisions.

[better days]

my guess is that there were large portions of the document that were not in dispute and the 45 minutes was set aside to read/discuss the portions where the owners and the players had to come to some sort of compromise. But we're talking about 32 guys who are millionaires and in some cases billionaires. They didn't get to that position by making rash decisions.

But they obviously did make a rash decision because they want to get out of that deal as soon as possible. Were it not a rash decision they would have wanted to ride that pony until it dropped.

[DrGraves]

what a ****ty owner. 2-3 years.... unacceptable. if you're not trying to win now, you shouldn't own a team.

[Extremebillsfan247]

huh? It's football-it's just entertainment. None of us need it at all. The fans of the Packers who won the SB or the Panthers who had the worst record in football didn't need it either.

And no, we can't always get what we want, but when you don't get what you want, you shouldn't be turning around defending the guy that's keeping you from getting it.
Your missing the point. For some of us, being a fan of this team means more than just wins and losses. If this team disappeared today, most of you would flock to other teams, some of us wouldn't. When was the last time you seen these words pop up on this message board? tradition, underdog, blue collar? Have we really become that selfish as a fan base that all we care about is wins? if that is the case, than why are we all here to begin with? That's what puzzles me. You know as well as I do that being a fan of the Bills is more than just wanting them to win.

[Stewie]

It's better to just understand it in the first place. Being "less bad" is still bad.

You should have responded sooner, therefore you didn't understand and comprehend my post fast enough, ergo fail.

[Beebe's Kid]

so 30 of the 32 were willing to just blatantly vote on a 300 page document that describes how billions of dollars will be managed without reading or understanding it? I have a hard time believing that.

Yes. That is exactly what is being said.

Why are they so adamant about changing it? I saw it referred to as a "**** deal" by one of the owners, maybe the guy from Carolina, but the pending lockout is precisely because of the above.

If it wasn't why wouldn't they just keep the agreement and re-up?

[OpIv37]

Your missing the point. For some of us, being a fan of this team means more than just wins and losses. If this team disappeared today, most of you would flock to other teams, some of us wouldn't. When was the last time you seen these words pop up on this message board? tradition, underdog, blue collar? Have we really become that selfish as a fan base that all we care about is wins? if that is the case, than why are we all here to begin with? That's what puzzles me. You know as well as I do that being a fan of the Bills is more than just wanting them to win.

The #1 thing that any fan of any team should be concerned with is wins. All that other stuff is great to have, but the end goal is always wins.

The fact that you even put anything else on an equal pedestal as winning proves you've accepted mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

You should have responded sooner, therefore you didn't understand and comprehend my post fast enough, ergo fail.

but no one else responded to your post yet, which means they understood it slower than me.

Therefore, you at least have to give me credit for understanding it faster than they did.


If you can't see how ridiculous that is, then I can't help you.

[justasportsfan]

so 30 of the 32 were willing to just blatantly vote on a 300 page document that describes how billions of dollars will be managed without reading or understanding it? I have a hard time believing that.
they opted out of it which means they screwed up.

[Extremebillsfan247]

The #1 thing that any fan of any team should be concerned with is wins. All that other stuff is great to have, but the end goal is always wins.

The fact that you even put anything else on an equal pedestal as winning proves you've accepted mediocrity. So what does that say for you since your still here? Just wondering. lol because I support this team even when its losing that makes me less of a fan? is that what your trying to say? I'm just trying to figure out what your implying here.

[Beebe's Kid]

they opted out of it which means they screwed up.

Don't start with your fancy facts!!! This is about Ralph being a senile old man, once and for all, not that the other owner's made a decision based on something they didn't understand, and are willing to lockout, losing a **** load of money, in order to get it changed.

Facts be damned when there is a point to be made.

Now the argument is turning to supporting Ralph is wrong if you are a fan, because we're not winning. It started with understanding the CBA, but facts were challenging that argument, so we're back to if you like Ralph you're not a fan, which is safe because that's an opinion, and there is not right or wrong.

[OpIv37]

So what does that say for you since your still here? Just wondering. lol because I support this team even when its losing that makes me less of a fan? is that what your trying to say? I'm just trying to figure out what your implying here.

I'm saying two things:

1. As a fan of the team, you should not be defending the owner whose decisions and incompetence keep said team from winning.

2. The #1 goal of any sports team at any level is to win games. When you start talking about being blue collar and tradition and being underdogs, it shows that you've accepted the fact that we can't win so you are finding other reasons to take pride in the team. This is unacceptable. As fans, we should demand wins.

[justasportsfan]

millionaires and billionaires lose money too. Thats exactly why they opted out early from the CBA they signed because they were losing money.

[OpIv37]

Don't start with your fancy facts!!! This is about Ralph being a senile old man, once and for all, not that the other owner's made a decision based on something they didn't understand, and are willing to lockout, losing a **** load of money, in order to get it changed.

Facts be damned when there is a point to be made.

Now the argument is turning to supporting Ralph is wrong if you are a fan, because we're not winning. It started with understanding the CBA, but facts were challenging that argument, so we're back to if you like Ralph you're not a fan, which is safe because that's an opinion, and there is not right or wrong.

Again, the "facts" you are using are irrelevant. Just because the other owners made a mistake does NOT excuse Ralph for not understanding it.

As it turns out, the CBA was a bad one. But Ralph didn't know that when he voted against it- he didn't understand it. It could have been great and made him billions of dollars, but he still voted against it BECAUSE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

If you want to say the other owners made a mistake, fine, but that's not a defense for Ralph not understanding.

[DraftBoy]

Its been a week or two since a good a board v. Op style fight. This is a nice mid-day break.

[better days]

Again, the "facts" you are using are irrelevant. Just because the other owners made a mistake does NOT excuse Ralph for not understanding it.

As it turns out, the CBA was a bad one. But Ralph didn't know that when he voted against it- he didn't understand it. It could have been great and made him billions of dollars, but he still voted against it BECAUSE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

If you want to say the other owners made a mistake, fine, but that's not a defense for Ralph not understanding.

I give Ralph credit for admitting it was imposible for him to understand a 300 page document written in legalese in 45 minutes time. He did also say what he did understand in those 300 pages, he did not like.

Even if it were pure luck, then maybe some of that luck will rub off on the Bills, but Ralph did not like that agreement from the get go & now every other owner agrees with him.

[OpIv37]

I give Ralph credit for admitting it was imposible for him to understand a 300 page document written in legalese in 45 minutes time. He did also say what he did understand in those 300 pages, he did not like.

Even if it were pure luck, then maybe some of that luck will rub off on the Bills, but Ralph did not like that agreement from the get go & now every other owner agrees with him.

I'd say Ralph didn't understand the agreement from the get go and now every other owner doesn't like it.

[better days]

I'd say Ralph didn't understand the agreement from the get go and now every other owner doesn't like it.

Well, why would they not like it now if they understood it from the get go & liked it then?

[OpIv37]

Well, why would they not like it now if they understood it from the get go & liked it then?

Maybe it looked good on paper but didn't work out so well in practice.

Maybe if the economy was still like it was in 2006, the owners would have so much money that they wouldn't give a **** about having to give the players 60%.

[Bill Cody]

Don't care.

All Ralph did was admit that he didn't understand, and everyone wants to give him credit. Just because the other owners did something stupid doesn't mean we have to spin this into giving Ralph credit for admitting his stupidity when the others didn't.

In your constant rush to slam you're missing the obvious point. Ralph voted no. All the other owner's now agree he was right. And since you don't care to answer my question I'll answer it for you- the other owner's did not intentionally vote against their own interests, that's not a logical assumption.

What is a logical assumption is they didn't understand the agreement either and if they had they would have voted no. Ralph was just man enough to admit it. Personally I always give someone who is honest enough to say "I don't know" more credit that someone who says "of course I understand" but really doesn't. But that's just me.

[Bill Cody]

Maybe it looked good on paper but didn't work out so well in practice.

Maybe if the economy was still like it was in 2006, the owners would have so much money that they wouldn't give a **** about having to give the players 60%.

fail

[better days]

Maybe it looked good on paper but didn't work out so well in practice.

Maybe if the economy was still like it was in 2006, the owners would have so much money that they wouldn't give a **** about having to give the players 60%.

I think it is much more likely the other owners did not understand what they were signing off on but even if you are right about both & it was only luck, Ralph was right, let's hope that luck rubs off on the Bills.

[Stewie]

but no one else responded to your post yet, which means they understood it slower than me.

Therefore, you at least have to give me credit for understanding it faster than they did.


If you can't see how ridiculous that is, then I can't help you.

OMG then why cant you see why it applies to you, not me!

[Extremebillsfan247]

I'm saying two things:

1. As a fan of the team, you should not be defending the owner whose decisions and incompetence keep said team from winning.

2. The #1 goal of any sports team at any level is to win games. When you start talking about being blue collar and tradition and being underdogs, it shows that you've accepted the fact that we can't win so you are finding other reasons to take pride in the team. This is unacceptable. As fans, we should demand wins.

1. I will always defend the Owner because I choose to. He owns the team I've been a fan of for more than 30 years. I don't have to like his decision making, nor do I have to support those decisions. I'm not going to belittle him, or hate on him for making them.

2. Your right, the goal of any team is to win, my goal as a fan is to be there when they do even if it means watching them struggle along the way. But my negativity does absolutely nothing to help them in achieving that. Do I want them to win? every time they step on the field. I cant stand to watch this team lose, but I wont sit here and bash them and everything about them relentlessly because of that. Throwing tantrums when you don't get your way is something children do. After all these years of watching this team play, I'd like to think I'm a little more resilient than that.

[Stewie]

The deal he said no to was a bad deal. He also he wanted more time to read it.

The 30 owners signed the bad deal.

What part of this is a problem for Ralph?

[OpIv37]

In your constant rush to slam you're missing the obvious point. Ralph voted no. All the other owner's now agree he was right. And since you don't care to answer my question I'll answer it for you- the other owner's did not intentionally vote against their own interests, that's not a logical assumption.

What is a logical assumption is they didn't understand the agreement either and if they had they would have voted no. Ralph was just man enough to admit it. Personally I always give someone who is honest enough to say "I don't know" more credit that someone who says "of course I understand" but really doesn't. But that's just me.
You are missing the point. Ralph wasn't right. He never said it was a bad deal. He said he didnt understand. Those are his own words.

This is exactly what I am complaining about. Ralph wasn't the visionary in the room who saw problems that no one else did. He voted against it because he simply didnt get it.

Yes, It would have been stupid to vote for something he did t understand, but saying "Ralph was right" is giving him more credit than he deserves. He wasnt right or wrong because his answer was "I don't know."

[OpIv37]

The deal he said no to was a bad deal. He also he wanted more time to read it.

The 30 owners signed the bad deal.

What part of this is a problem for Ralph?
He didnt say no because he thought it was a bad deal. Hesaid no because he didn't understand. It was dumb luck.

[mikemac2001]

He didnt say no because he thought it was a bad deal. Hesaid no because he didn't understand. It was dumb luck.


He said he didn't have enough time to and instead of voting yes he voted no

Not defending him but this was stated years ago don't take a quote from 5 years later to try to bash him more

I guess you just sign on the line for everything

[X-Era]

To me it doesn't really matter. IMO, we are in for even more disparity between the wealthy and small market teams. They are working to get a bigger piece of the pie and the revenue sharing part is a back burner issue. I could see this new CBA not even addressing it.

[Extremebillsfan247]

He didnt say no because he thought it was a bad deal. Hesaid no because he didn't understand. It was dumb luck. You know what happens to people who sign deals without reading the fine print? they are usually the ones trying to file lawsuits at the end of the day when reality sinks in. lol

[OpIv37]

1. I will always defend the Owner because I choose to. He owns the team I've been a fan of for more than 30 years. I don't have to like his decision making, nor do I have to support those decisions. I'm not going to belittle him, or hate on him for making them.

2. Your right, the goal of any team is to win, my goal as a fan is to be there when they do even if it means watching them struggle along the way. But my negativity does absolutely nothing to help them in achieving that. Do I want them to win? every time they step on the field. I cant stand to watch this team lose, but I wont sit here and bash them and everything about them relentlessly because of that. Throwing tantrums when you don't get your way is something children do. After all these years of watching this team play, I'd like to think I'm a little more resilient than that.
1. If you are going to defend the owner and refuse to criticize his choices even when you don't like them and they lead to losses, then you deserve the ****ty product he puts on the field.

2. This message board exists for discussing the team. Unfortunately, the team has sucked lately, so there is going to be a lot of criticism and negativity. If you equate that to having a tantrum because we didn't get what we want, then you are just not looking at the team realistically.

[Extremebillsfan247]

1. If you are going to defend the owner and refuse to criticize his choices even when you don't like them and they lead to losses, then you deserve the ****ty product he puts on the field.

2. This message board exists for discussing the team. Unfortunately, the team has sucked lately, so there is going to be a lot of criticism and negativity. If you equate that to having a tantrum because we didn't get what we want, then you are just not looking at the team realistically.

:bf1: What ever floats your boat. :peace:

[Bill Cody]

You are missing the point. Ralph wasn't right. He never said it was a bad deal. He said he didnt understand. Those are his own words.

This is exactly what I am complaining about. Ralph wasn't the visionary in the room who saw problems that no one else did. He voted against it because he simply didnt get it.

Yes, It would have been stupid to vote for something he did t understand, but saying "Ralph was right" is giving him more credit than he deserves. He wasnt right or wrong because his answer was "I don't know."

Ralph felt he was being rushed which he was. Not understanding something because you're not given time to read it is a legitamate reason to vote no. And as it turns out the other owners apparently didn't understand it either. So Ralph was right in votong "no" and he deserves credit and no he doesn't have to have predicted the issues that have resulted to deserve credit because (wait for it) RALPH VOTED NO.

The truth is many of the owners realized fairly quickly after signing the last deal that they had given up too much. Labor costs have risen dramatically faster than revenues despite the fact that revenues have never been higher. Surely the 30 owners that voted yes would like to have a mulligan on rushing to sign a flawed agreement. That's a fact.

[OpIv37]

Ralph felt he was being rushed which he was. Not understanding something because you're not given time to read it is a legitamate reason to vote no. And as it turns out the other owners apparently didn't understand it either. So Ralph was right in votong "no" and he deserves credit and no he doesn't have to have predicted the issues that have resulted to deserve credit because (wait for it) RALPH VOTED NO.

The truth is many of the owners realized fairly quickly after signing the last deal that they had given up too much. Labor costs have risen dramatically faster than revenues despite the fact that revenues have never been higher. Surely the 30 owners that voted yes would like to have a mulligan on rushing to sign a flawed agreement. That's a fact.

You just spun it to give Ralph credit for not understanding something, even when Ralph admitted in HIS OWN WORDS that he didn't understand it.

Yes, the other owners made a mistake. And I'll even go so far as to agree that not understanding is a legitimate reason to vote no. But that does not mean we should give Ralph credit for failing to understand. He ended up making the right choice by pure dumb luck.

[kingJofNYC]

I'm sure there were a few other owners who didn't understand all the details and still voted Yes, we'll probably never hear from them however.

Plenty of stupid owners who don't understand ****, why belabor the point?

[Bill Cody]

1. If you are going to defend the owner and refuse to criticize his choices even when you don't like them and they lead to losses, then you deserve the ****ty product he puts on the field.

That would make sense if we had an actual voice in those decisions. We don't. Bills fans don't deserve losses but then again neither do the loyal fans of any team. Being a constant whiner like you are doesn't make you any more or less deserving of losses than anyone else, it just makes you a pantload. Sorry.


2. This message board exists for discussing the team. Unfortunately, the team has sucked lately, so there is going to be a lot of criticism and negativity. If you equate that to having a tantrum because we didn't get what we want, then you are just not looking at the team realistically.

You are completely in denial about how depressing your take on everything is. We all understand the state of the team and we deal with it in our own ways. It literally bothers you if anyone is not as miserable about the team as you are. Sad for you.

[Bill Cody]

You just spun it to give Ralph credit for not understanding something, even when Ralph admitted in HIS OWN WORDS that he didn't understand it.

Yes, the other owners made a mistake. And I'll even go so far as to agree that not understanding is a legitimate reason to vote no. But that does not mean we should give Ralph credit for failing to understand. He ended up making the right choice by pure dumb luck.

He didn't understand it because he was not given adequate time. I give him credit for voting no for that reason. It isn't complicated.

[Extremebillsfan247]

You just spun it to give Ralph credit for not understanding something, even when Ralph admitted in HIS OWN WORDS that he didn't understand it.

Yes, the other owners made a mistake. And I'll even go so far as to agree that not understanding is a legitimate reason to vote no. But that does not mean we should give Ralph credit for failing to understand. He ended up making the right choice by pure dumb luck.
Wouldn't it be more accurate considering that none of us were there, to say we don't know what really happened and are all just jumping to conclusions based on what we were told happened? I'm not saying your wrong or that anyone partaking in this argument is right, but unless anyone on this board was actually there, the argument is kind of pointless. JMO

[OpIv37]

That would make sense if we had an actual voice in those decisions. We don't. Bills fans don't deserve losses but then again neither do the loyal fans of any team. Being a constant whiner like you are doesn't make you any more or less deserving of losses than anyone else, it just makes you a pantload. Sorry.

It doesn't matter if we have a voice in those decisions or not. He said he blatantly supports the owner, even when he personally doesn't like the decisions. What? That's just illogical.





You are completely in denial about how depressing your take on everything is. We all understand the state of the team and we deal with it in our own ways. It literally bothers you if anyone is not as miserable about the team as you are. Sad for you.

And here is yet another example of someone losing the argument who turns to personal attacks against me. It's easier to come after me than it is to accept the reality of the team. I'm not going to get in any discussions about my attitude or whether or not I'm miserable. I'm more than happy to discuss/argue about the team, the owner, or anything else relevant to the Bills.

[OpIv37]

Wouldn't it be more accurate considering that none of us were there, to say we don't know what really happened and are all just jumping to conclusions based on what we were told happened? I'm not saying your wrong or that anyone partaking in this argument is right, but unless anyone on this board was actually there, the argument is kind of pointless. JMO

I'm just basing it on what Ralph said in the article. If what happened was different than what he said, then you are right. None of us really know.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe it looked good on paper but didn't work out so well in practice.

Maybe if the economy was still like it was in 2006, the owners would have so much money that they wouldn't give a **** about having to give the players 60%.

lol. If they understood it then they would have known that they would lose money and would have never signed it to begin with. Your "maybes" has been trumped by the owners opting out EARLY from the CBA after they realized they screwed up and didn't understand what they were signing to begin with.

[madness]

Nix told us 2-3 years to make the playoffs a year ago. The time line should now be 1-2 years.
I stand corrected... he's repeating what he said back in October.


Calling himself "a realist," Buffalo Bills (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Organizations/Sports+Leagues/NFL/Buffalo+Bills) owner Ralph Wilson (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Ralph+C.+Wilson+Jr) warned it might take as many as three years to rebuild his team, and added drafting a quarterback next year is the club's top priority.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2010-10-11-ralph-wilson_N.htm

[OpIv37]

lol. If they understood it then they would have known that they would lose money and would have never signed it to begin with. Your "maybes" has been trumped by the owners opting out EARLY from the CBA after they realized they screwed up and didn't understand what they were signing to begin with.

My point is that Ralph didn't understand it either. He didn't vote no because he saw the problems with it- he didn't understand it. The other owners either had an incorrect understanding of it or voted for it even though they didn't understand it, which is also wrong.

But that has no bearing on the fact that people are trying to give credit to Ralph for not understanding.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Just to put this whole 2006 CBA thing to rest:



Ralph voted against it because he DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT. Not because he was some visionary who foresaw the current problems- HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT. He said it in HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, after 10 years of struggling and multiple coaching and FO changes, he STILL says we are 2-3 years away from being a playoff team?

Do you people get it yet? Some of you will come back with "be respectful- he gave us a team." Well, that was 51 years ago and he hasn't done jack **** since then. And he's trying to buy another 2-3 years of not doing jack **** with comments like that.

This team is going nowhere as long as he's the owner.

Seriously?

Just don't go setting yourself on fire or hanging yourself from a lightpole outside 1 Bills Dr.

[Bill Cody]

It doesn't matter if we have a voice in those decisions or not. He said he blatantly supports the owner, even when he personally doesn't like the decisions. What? That's just illogical.

It may be illogical (in your mind) but it doesn't mean he deserves a ****ty team. That's what you said. And that sir is wrong.


And here is yet another example of someone losing the argument who turns to personal attacks against me. It's easier to come after me than it is to accept the reality of the team. I'm not going to get in any discussions about my attitude or whether or not I'm miserable. I'm more than happy to discuss/argue about the team, the owner, or anything else relevant to the Bills.

I'll let the rest of the board decide if I "lost" the argument. You never think you lose an argument because you always think you're right. You're not. And if something is factually true it's not an attack. I wouldn't want to see a poll on it because I have no desire to see you embarrassed but I have no doubt what the result would be. I'm telling you this because you can do better.

[better days]

You are missing the point. Ralph wasn't right. He never said it was a bad deal. He said he didnt understand. Those are his own words.

This is exactly what I am complaining about. Ralph wasn't the visionary in the room who saw problems that no one else did. He voted against it because he simply didnt get it.

Yes, It would have been stupid to vote for something he did t understand, but saying "Ralph was right" is giving him more credit than he deserves. He wasnt right or wrong because his answer was "I don't know."

Yes he did say it was a bad deal. He said WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, I DID NOT LIKE. That is saying it is a bad deal.

[justasportsfan]

My point is that Ralph didn't understand it either. He didn't vote no because he saw the problems with it- he didn't understand it. The other owners either had an incorrect understanding of it or voted for it even though they didn't understand it, which is also wrong.

But that has no bearing on the fact that people are trying to give credit to Ralph for not understanding.


they shouldn't give Ralphy credit just like you shouldn't give him crap for not understanding and not signing it.

[trapezeus]

The Packers & Steelers both use the blueprint that the Bills want to employ. The Redskins are the epitome of a team that tries to build through freeagency.

Yes, they are. i'm not saying, build through free agency, but i am saying, "draft for the now, not for the 2-3 years from now."

Pick players who can play and be good now early. The way free agency poaches players in their prime for contracts that actually de-incentivise them is what leaves buffalo short of talent. similarly getting a guy you think will be something in 2-3 years and doesn't pan out sets us back.

i think we both agree, drafting is the key. But i am just saying, early in the draft, you have to go for impact and don't sell us on, "he needs a ton of time." That's why i think taking a QB is nonsensical. if we build a good defense anda respectable line, we can still get a QB and let him learn on the job and lead a good team. other teams have done this. It's a problem when you put a young kid on a ****ty team.

[better days]

Yes, they are. i'm not saying, build through free agency, but i am saying, "draft for the now, not for the 2-3 years from now."

Pick players who can play and be good now early. The way free agency poaches players in their prime for contracts that actually de-incentivise them is what leaves buffalo short of talent. similarly getting a guy you think will be something in 2-3 years and doesn't pan out sets us back.

i think we both agree, drafting is the key. But i am just saying, early in the draft, you have to go for impact and don't sell us on, "he needs a ton of time." That's why i think taking a QB is nonsensical. if we build a good defense anda respectable line, we can still get a QB and let him learn on the job and lead a good team. other teams have done this. It's a problem when you put a young kid on a ****ty team.

Yeah, I think we are in agreement. The 1st rnd guy should make an impact especially the #3 pick. That is unless he is a QB then I would give him an extra year.

[Bill Cody]

Yes, they are. i'm not saying, build through free agency, but i am saying, "draft for the now, not for the 2-3 years from now."

Pick players who can play and be good now early. The way free agency poaches players in their prime for contracts that actually de-incentivise them is what leaves buffalo short of talent. similarly getting a guy you think will be something in 2-3 years and doesn't pan out sets us back.

i think we both agree, drafting is the key. But i am just saying, early in the draft, you have to go for impact and don't sell us on, "he needs a ton of time." That's why i think taking a QB is nonsensical. if we build a good defense anda respectable line, we can still get a QB and let him learn on the job and lead a good team. other teams have done this. It's a problem when you put a young kid on a ****ty team.

It's a problem without a perfect solution. "Draft for the now" and we still need a QB. Unless we have the right guy under center we ain't winning. And there is no point in drafting a QB unless he has the potential to be a lot better than Fitz. But even if he does all young QB's struggle to some degree they just do. I just want us to draft good players. Good now, good later whatever, just don't draft ****ing busts.

[Philagape]

Its been a week or two since a good a board v. Op style fight. This is a nice mid-day break.

I was wondering how it got to 5 pages in a few hours .....

[Stewie]

He didnt say no because he thought it was a bad deal. Hesaid no because he didn't understand. It was dumb luck.


He clearly said he didn't understand because he didn't have more than 45 minutes. You can't just keep ignoring that part. It happened.

[psubills62]

He clearly said he didn't understand because he didn't have more than 45 minutes. You can't just keep ignoring that part. It happened.

He also happens to ignore the quote about "and the stuff I did understand I didn't like."

[ServoBillieves]

How can you possibly look at this team and not think that's the MINIMUM it would be?

This team gave me cirrhosis, they owe me a playoff berth.