Starting to think DL should be taken in the 2nd.

[Nighthawk]

My reasoning is that the draft class is very, very, very deep and with the Bills holding the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, we will still be able to get a very good DL at that position. Makes sense to address another need at a position where the depth is not as strong in this class, such as LB or QB. I'm a very big proponent of taking LB Von Miller at #3, as I see him as the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft...he's a stud. He's just so much better then the rest of the field, kind of reminds me of when Patrick Willis came out and he was miles better then the rest of the class.

[alohabillsfan]

I could see taking him or, Quinn, Bowers, Fairley, or, Dareus. Its a great draft for D front 7 and hope we take 2 with picks 1 and 2.

[Bangarang]

1. Von Miller
2. Carimi, Rudolph, Ayers, or Cannon
3. ??????
4. Profit

[JCBills]

I'd like to see us go Dareus DE - Houston OLB if possible with our first 2 picks. Adds a lot of size and athleticism to the front 7 and should improve our pass rush.

[YardRat]

I don't care how deep it is, I want the player the Bills think is the best defensive lineman on the board at #3...We can go LB or elsewhere after that.

[BertSquirtgum]

i agree, we should definitely draft aj green.

[TacklingDummy]

3. Miller
34. Corey Liuget, DE/DT, Illinois
68. Torrey Smith, WR

[alohabillsfan]

I still believe we need Dareus, Fairley or Bowers at #3

[Jaybird]

Quinn.. we need someone to get after the Qb. If Merrimen can regain his form those 2 would cause major problems for opposing O

[alohabillsfan]

Quinn.. we need someone to get after the Qb. If Merrimen can regain his form those 2 would cause major problems for opposing O

I also like Quinn alot and think he may be the best edge rusher in the draft, very fluid and has a variety of pash rush moves, but its hard to pass up a DE like Dareus that can stop the run and apply pressure. Then the wild card Fairley, he can dominate games.

[DraftBoy]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...

[tampabay25690]

My reasoning is that the draft class is very, very, very deep and with the Bills holding the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, we will still be able to get a very good DL at that position. Makes sense to address another need at a position where the depth is not as strong in this class, such as LB or QB. I'm a very big proponent of taking LB Von Miller at #3, as I see him as the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft...he's a stud. He's just so much better then the rest of the field, kind of reminds me of when Patrick Willis came out and he was miles better then the rest of the class.

Good post...........
I am thinking more and more that Von Miller is the pick.......
DL and LB is very deep going in the later rounds...

What about Cam Heyward in the 2nd round?

[k-oneputt]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...

For the Bills it is because their first two picks should be automatic day one starters. [except qb}
And if they can't find two players in the top 34 to start immediately on this defense then somebody better get fired in that scouting dept.

[alohabillsfan]

I know its tempting to pick the fast guy, but this team needs BEEF, or Bison (which is slightly leaner).

[Nighthawk]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...

The DL is very deep in this draft, very deep.

[Nighthawk]

Good post...........
I am thinking more and more that Von Miller is the pick.......
DL and LB is very deep going in the later rounds...

What about Cam Heyward in the 2nd round?

Agreed...and Heyward is a guy who I think would be there in the 2nd. This guy was considered a possible top 10 pick at one point and I believe he'd be a steal in the 2nd. I just see a ton of talented DL in this draft that gives us an opportunity to go in a different direction with that first pick.

[psubills62]

Then maybe Tyron Smith in the first...then someone like Cameron Heyward or Muhammad Wilkerson, etc. in the second. :irule:

[djjimkelly]

i could live with miller for sure

[Mahdi]

My reasoning is that the draft class is very, very, very deep and with the Bills holding the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, we will still be able to get a very good DL at that position. Makes sense to address another need at a position where the depth is not as strong in this class, such as LB or QB. I'm a very big proponent of taking LB Von Miller at #3, as I see him as the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft...he's a stud. He's just so much better then the rest of the field, kind of reminds me of when Patrick Willis came out and he was miles better then the rest of the class.
I agree.

[k-oneputt]

i could live with miller for sure

If they are gonna go that route with #3 I would rather have Quinn.

[alohabillsfan]

If they are gonna go that route with #3 I would rather have Quinn.

Me too

[justasportsfan]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...

as in Troup would be a 1st rounder in this draft?

[Mahdi]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...
How do you figure the draft isn't deep at DL? Mayock was talking today about there being about 13 first round DL players.

LB is not deep and neither is OL. CB and DL are looking solid as is WR.


DTs/DEs: Dareus, Fairley, Bowers, Quinn, Aldon Smith, Clayborn, Kerrigan Austin, Watt, Liuget, Wilkerson, P.Taylor, C.Jordan, Heyward, Ballard, Bailey, McPhee, Romeus, Beal...

Chances are pretty good we can grab a solid 3-4 DE or DT with the 2nd pick in the second round.

[ServoBillieves]

You want DL in the second, well then what the hell do you want in the first?

[Akhippo]

Im warming up to Milller at 3. Kinda high, but if he can be a dominate edge rusher ala Mathews, he would be worth it. I would then draft M Wilson in the second. Rebuild our LBs to be tough and fast. Have him play ILB, team him with Miller and Merriman (old form), and we would have a start to a defense.

[Michael82]

Miller is a stud. He ran a 4.46 and was a beast in the Senior bowl...i would have no problem taking him at#3. He could be our DeMarcus Ware in the 3-4.

[better days]

One slight issue with your idea, this draft isn't that deep...

You are the only one saying this. The national draft experts such as Kiper, McShay, & Mayock say it is a deeper draft than usual at many positions.

[Bills Juggernaut]

Stupid question but would Miller and Merriman be on the field at the same time? They are not the same position right? Which one would be the strong side backer and the other weak?

[Bills Juggernaut]

Oh, and I thought I read somewhere recently that Nix said he was happy with our OLB's, but really wanted to concentrate on building size of our ILB's.

I know there is no ILB's worthy of pick #3, but if he is happy with our OLB's, I can't see him talkikng Miller first.

[jpdex12]

It may be a deep DL draft but that doesn't mean that a lot or most of the 1st round talent in the DL still can't get eaten up in the 1st round. If a lot of teams draft based on BPA then a lot of those BPA DL players will go in the first.

although the possibility of taking Quinn at 3 and Heyward in the second is interesting...QB in the third and Matthews with a fourth round pick?

[alohabillsfan]

It may be a deep DL draft but that doesn't mean that a lot or most of the 1st round talent in the DL still can't get eaten up in the 1st round. If a lot of teams draft based on BPA then a lot of those BPA DL players will go in the first.

although the possibility of taking Quinn at 3 and Heyward in the second is interesting...QB in the third and Matthews with a fourth round pick?

id buy everything your selling except the QB in the 3rd.

[EDS]

For the Bills it is because their first two picks should be automatic day one starters. [except qb}
And if they can't find two players in the top 34 to start immediately on this defense then somebody better get fired in that scouting dept.

They couldn't do it last year, what makes you think they can this year?

[k-oneputt]

They couldn't do it last year, what makes you think they can this year?

That is the problem in a nutshell. I really don't know if they can do it, and if they can't then something has to change. There is no reason #3 and #34 can't walk in here and start in the first game.

[Mahdi]

Stupid question but would Miller and Merriman be on the field at the same time? They are not the same position right? Which one would be the strong side backer and the other weak?
Miller rushed off of RT a lot so they would be perfect together on the field at the same time. And if Merriman doesn't get healthy he is the perfect guy to have rushing off the weak side also. Either way, Miller represents a HUGE upgrade.

[mysticsoto]

I wouldn't mind Miller either, though I wonder if Quinn might be best. I was hoping we could fill in some spots at LB in FA so that we could go DL in the 1st rd, but...

[k-oneputt]

Quinn could play olb in a 3-4, and put his hand on the ground in a 4-3. He's bigger then Miller but he has the issue of not playing last year. don't know where Nix would stand on that but from what he has said in the past about one year wonder guys he may not be what they are looking at.

[mysticsoto]

Quinn could play olb in a 3-4, and put his hand on the ground in a 4-3. He's bigger then Miller but he has the issue of not playing last year. don't know where Nix would stand on that but from what he has said in the past about one year wonder guys he may not be what they are looking at.

I understand it's a risk - that's why you pay the scouts the big money. :) But our scouts suck, so we will likely take the biggest loser/bust.

Quinn is a big DE with fast LB speed. Those are intangibles you can't coach. If he has the mental aspect, the motivation and the work ethic...is what Nix needs to figure out.

[justasportsfan]

I was hoping we could fill in some spots at LB in FA so that we could go DL in the 1st rd, but...

Danny Batten will be a beast for us.

[DraftBoy]

as in Troup would be a 1st rounder in this draft?

God no, are you out of your mind?

[jpdex12]

Miller rushed off of RT a lot so they would be perfect together on the field at the same time. And if Merriman doesn't get healthy he is the perfect guy to have rushing off the weak side also. Either way, Miller represents a HUGE upgrade.

I worry about Miller's size and holding up against the run.

[k-oneputt]

I understand it's a risk - that's why you pay the scouts the big money. :) But our scouts suck, so we will likely take the biggest loser/bust.

Quinn is a big DE with fast LB speed. Those are intangibles you can't coach. If he has the mental aspect, the motivation and the work ethic...is what Nix needs to figure out.


I would rather have Quinn over Miller if they go with that position.

[DraftBoy]

You are the only one saying this. The national draft experts such as Kiper, McShay, & Mayock say it is a deeper draft than usual at many positions.

No Im not, but it doesnt matter who is saying what at this point. IMO:

QB is weak
LB is weak
S is weak
OG is weak
OC is weak
OT is great up top, not so great lower
DE is the same as OT
DT is above average depth
CB is deep
WR is deep
RB is deep

[justasportsfan]

God no, are you out of your mind?

I was asking you .

Since you offered no explanation as to why you think this draft was weak, thats why I posted that question.

[DraftBoy]

I was asking you .

Since you offered no explanation as to why you think this draft was weak, thats why I posted that question.

Troup was a big reach when we took him, as I posted back then. Im not sure he's better (if not worse) than the same DT's in this class.

This draft is deep in terms of 3-4 NT's. Troup would of seen a bigger fall in this class than last.

[k-oneputt]

Troup was a big reach when we took him, as I posted back then. Im not sure he's better (if not worse) than the same DT's in this class.

This draft is deep in terms of 3-4 NT's. Troup would of seen a bigger fall in this class than last.

Troup should have went about 50 picks after from where he went. I'm hoping they are finally right on one, we will see.

[DraftBoy]

Troup should have went about 50 picks after from where he went. I'm hoping they are finally right on one, we will see.

Not sure they'll take another NT, but I would like a kid like Kennrick Ellis from Hampton.

[jpdex12]

id buy everything your selling except the QB in the 3rd.

Skip QB for the year?

[Mahdi]

No Im not, but it doesnt matter who is saying what at this point. IMO:

QB is weak
LB is weak
S is weak
OG is weak
OC is weak
OT is great up top, not so great lower
DE is the same as OT
DT is above average depth
CB is deep
WR is deep
RB is deep
This is pretty much accurate... However the DL players combined represent about 13 or 14 first rounders which is probably the best DL draft in a long long time. The question will be how much talent at DL will that push into the second round.

This is probably the best CB draft in as long as I can remember and same with WR. There is going to be some PB WRs taken in the 2nd and 3rd.

[DraftBoy]

This is pretty much accurate... However the DL players combined represent about 13 or 14 first rounders which is probably the best DL draft in a long long time. The question will be how much talent at DL will that push into the second round.

This is probably the best CB draft in as long as I can remember and same with WR. There is going to be some PB WRs taken in the 2nd and 3rd.

Which is why when you say DL should be taken in the 2nd, knowing that 10-13 are going in Round 1, claims about its mystical depth are inaccurate.

[better days]

No Im not, but it doesnt matter who is saying what at this point. IMO:

QB is weak
LB is weak
S is weak
OG is weak
OC is weak
OT is great up top, not so great lower
DE is the same as OT
DT is above average depth
CB is deep
WR is deep
RB is deep

The 3 people I named disagree with you. Out of curiosity can you tell us who does agree with you?

I have heard there are more quality DE's than DT's in this draft.

[DraftBoy]

The 3 people I named disagree with you. Out of curiosity can you tell us who does agree with you?

I have heard there are more quality DE's than DT's in this draft.

I can, but the opinion I have is share by plenty of others in the draft community. None are the names of the three you named, but it is ok to disagree with them. not the end of the world.

I dont know who told you that. Have you looked at the DE and DT classes?

[better days]

Which is why when you say DL should be taken in the 2nd, knowing that 10-13 are going in Round 1, claims about its mystical depth are inaccurate.

If there are 13 DL players that go in the 1st rnd that is quite a bit of depth IMO. That will provide a DL player for over one third of the NFL. Nothing mystical about that, other than the fact there are that many DL players worth that grade.

I agree with you though. quality DL players are like gold, I doubt any of them fall to the 2nd rnd.

[alohabillsfan]

Skip QB for the year?

Yes, I would rather fill defensive needs (DE, OLB, ILB, ILB, CB, S) than pick a QB in the "mid rounds" who historically never amount to anything. If you dont take a QB in round 1 then there is a reason that 31 other teams also passed on them. It is by far the most important position in the league and even the teams that pick late in round 1 of the draft would strongly consider a QB if the talent is there, hell they are in the best position to groom a future QB than those early in the draft.

The average pick of current first round QB's is 5.75. There are several post 1st round QB's in the league that are starters,

RD 2, Henne, Brees, RD 4, Orton, Garrard, RD 6 Hasselbeck, Brady, RD 7 Cassel, Fitzy.

[Nighthawk]

If there are 13 DL players that go in the 1st rnd that is quite a bit of depth IMO. That will provide a DL player for over one third of the NFL. Nothing mystical about that, other than the fact there are that many DL players worth that grade.

I agree with you though. quality DL players are like gold, I doubt any of them fall to the 2nd rnd.

There will ALWAYS be guys who drop, especially with this many quality DL in the draft. Not every team needs a DL as their top priority...

[better days]

I can, but the opinion I have is share by plenty of others in the draft community. None are the names of the three you named, but it is ok to disagree with them. not the end of the world.

I dont know who told you that. Have you looked at the DE and DT classes?

I heard it on the ESPN first draft podcast. I think it was McShay that said it, but it might have been Kiper, I can't remember.

[IMissKelly]

Cam is gonna be a bust, and Gabbert would be a reach at 3 assuming he turns out to be decent.

My vote is for a top DL or Von at 3. then hopefully Ponder in the the 2nd

[better days]

There will ALWAYS be guys who drop, especially with this many quality DL in the draft. Not every team needs a DL as their top priority...

I agree there are always guys that drop, but DL is so coveted that if one is available it will be hard for a team to pass on him even if that is not the top priority. Even though the Bucs have a number of needs, if a DL is there that they like when they pick, I expect them to take him.

Now if all those DL players do go in the 1st, that should drop some players at other positions that would have usually gone in the 1st.

[DraftBoy]

If there are 13 DL players that go in the 1st rnd that is quite a bit of depth IMO. That will provide a DL player for over one third of the NFL. Nothing mystical about that, other than the fact there are that many DL players worth that grade.

I agree with you though. quality DL players are like gold, I doubt any of them fall to the 2nd rnd.

That's not depth, that's called being top heavy. Depth is having talented players that can be taken after the second round. This draft does not have much of that at all.

That's where guys like Kiper, and Mayock sometimes mislead. They know the majority of fans and viewers only know about the the top 50-75 players, most don't know who the hell Julius Thomas is, or Josh Thomas, or Denarius Moore. They do of course, but since they are talking to general people that's what they mean by deep, not that this draft has actual depth.

[better days]

That's not depth, that's called being top heavy. Depth is having talented players that can be taken after the second round. This draft does not have much of that at all.

That's where guys like Kiper, and Mayock sometimes mislead. They know the majority of fans and viewers only know about the the top 50-75 players, most don't know who the hell Julius Thomas is, or Josh Thomas, or Denarius Moore. They do of course, but since they are talking to general people that's what they mean by deep, not that this draft has actual depth.

OK if that is the case. I always thought depth meant there were a number of quality players at a certain position.

In any case, both Kiper & McShay have said this draft does have a lot of depth.

[JCBills]

That's not depth, that's called being top heavy. Depth is having talented players that can be taken after the second round. This draft does not have much of that at all.

That's where guys like Kiper, and Mayock sometimes mislead. They know the majority of fans and viewers only know about the the top 50-75 players, most don't know who the hell Julius Thomas is, or Josh Thomas, or Denarius Moore. They do of course, but since they are talking to general people that's what they mean by deep, not that this draft has actual depth.

I'd love Moore in the later rounds.

[ublinkwescore]

Give me Dareus, or give me more mediocre at best football.

[Nighthawk]

Give me Dareus, or give me more mediocre at best football.

You obviously haven't seen Von Miller play...

[DraftBoy]

You obviously haven't seen Von Miller play...

Have you seen Dareus? Ill take the guy who actually fits our defense and has played you know an actual position in the last year of college football, as opposed to the guy who runs real fast but had to have a special position created for him because he didn't fit anywhere.

[justasportsfan]

i kinda feel Miller would be a reach at 3 and Dareus wouldnt

[Mahdi]

Have you seen Dareus? Ill take the guy who actually fits our defense and has played you know an actual position in the last year of college football, as opposed to the guy who runs real fast but had to have a special position created for him because he didn't fit anywhere.
Huh? Miller was used exactly as he should be used, as an amazing pass rusher. They moved him a lot rushing from both sides, standing up and with his hand on the ground. He dropped into coverage some from what I saw, and is not amazing against the run but good and very tough and willing to battle in the run game.

17 sacks as a junior, 11 as a senior.

Productive player for 3 seasons, has all the measurables, and is the leader of his football team. Doesn't get much better for an elite prospect.

Miller is the perfect 3-4 edge rusher candidate. He even bulked up to 246 pounds and clearly didn't lose any speed or athleticism. Another thing he has going for him is his lower body. The guy has tree trunks for thighs which is key to his success in the NFL.


Guy who runs real fast is a pretty weak summary of Miller.

And as for Dareus, we already have Edwards and Carrington who will most likely start. We have only Merriman who is proven as an OLB and it's still unsure what kind of impact he will have. Even if Merriman is healthy Miller becomes a HUGE upgrade over Kelsay on the other side.

[Mahdi]

For those screaming for Dareus, how many 3-4 teams in the last 10 years have actually selected a 3-4 DE in the top 20?

Seymour (more than 10 years ago)

Tyson Jackson (how did that work out?...)

Marcus Spears (again... not worth the pick)

Ty Warren (good player never been great)


Bottom line... 5 technique is not hard to find because the job is pretty straightforward, hold up your gap, and you don't need a top 10 pick to get that job done, let alone a top 3 pick. In fact many of the 3-4 ends in the league are not even first or second round picks.

With all the different coverages played in a 3-4 scheme having an all-pro OLB or an all pro CB is much more valuable.

Give me the best 3-4 DE in the league and tell me if you would rather have him or Revis.

Or the best 3-4 DE compared to DeMarcus Ware or Clay Mathews.

[ServoBillieves]

Peterson.

[alohabillsfan]

Acutally I would rather take Bowers or Quinn, both provide pass rush but are better against the run.

[DraftBoy]

Huh? Miller was used exactly as he should be used, as an amazing pass rusher. They moved him a lot rushing from both sides, standing up and with his hand on the ground. He dropped into coverage some from what I saw, and is not amazing against the run but good and very tough and willing to battle in the run game.

17 sacks as a junior, 11 as a senior.

Productive player for 3 seasons, has all the measurables, and is the leader of his football team. Doesn't get much better for an elite prospect.

Miller is the perfect 3-4 edge rusher candidate. He even bulked up to 246 pounds and clearly didn't lose any speed or athleticism. Another thing he has going for him is his lower body. The guy has tree trunks for thighs which is key to his success in the NFL.


Guy who runs real fast is a pretty weak summary of Miller.

And as for Dareus, we already have Edwards and Carrington who will most likely start. We have only Merriman who is proven as an OLB and it's still unsure what kind of impact he will have. Even if Merriman is healthy Miller becomes a HUGE upgrade over Kelsay on the other side.

You don't once address the fact of what Miller's position was in college. Do you know why he moved around alot? Because he was given that freedom, he could line up almost anywhere he wanted and could roam like a ROV. He didnt play a true OLB position, he did some coverage but it wasn't good. His speed and athleticism has people enamored and I get that, but to act like his a proven OLB is absolutely wrong.

His pass rushing skills are out of this world, but he's way too over aggressive, lacks an ideal counter move, lacks strength, doesnt pick through traffic well, and doesnt disengage well either. With Miller its all based on speed, if he can beat you to a spot he'll make the play, if he can't he has no recourse to beat his man to make a play.

That's a big time issue for a defense that already struggles to get off blocks.

Neither Edwards nor (and especially) Carrington have done much of anything to prove they should be starters so I dont know why you would make that assumption.

You seem to conveinently forget we have this other young OLB who was kinda coming into his own in at the end of last year in Arthur Moats.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd have no problem going Peterson then Cam Heyward in the 2nd.

[Mahdi]

You don't once address the fact of what Miller's position was in college. Do you know why he moved around alot? Because he was given that freedom, he could line up almost anywhere he wanted and could roam like a ROV. He didnt play a true OLB position, he did some coverage but it wasn't good. His speed and athleticism has people enamored and I get that, but to act like his a proven OLB is absolutely wrong.

His pass rushing skills are out of this world, but he's way too over aggressive, lacks an ideal counter move, lacks strength, doesnt pick through traffic well, and doesnt disengage well either. With Miller its all based on speed, if he can beat you to a spot he'll make the play, if he can't he has no recourse to beat his man to make a play.

That's a big time issue for a defense that already struggles to get off blocks.

Neither Edwards nor (and especially) Carrington have done much of anything to prove they should be starters so I dont know why you would make that assumption.

You seem to conveinently forget we have this other young OLB who was kinda coming into his own in at the end of last year in Arthur Moats.
I agree with some of this and don't agree with some.

First, I think the fact that he was a roamer is a good thing not a bad thing. Clay Mathews is used in a lot of different spots for GB also, right, left and inside. So this for me is not a negative but a positive.

Second, I do agree that Miller needs to learn to use his hands and get into the OT. A lot of his rushes are just based on getting around the OT. The big question for him is whether or not he can engage an OT and use pass rush moves to get to the QB along with his speed.

This is a big concern, especially for Bills fans who have first hand experience watching a raw pass rusher struggle.

That being said, I think Miller has a strong powerful base that will help him learn to be more diverse in his pass rush. Problem with Maybin is that even though he is learning to use his hands he doesn't have the lower body strength to back it up.