Russ Lande Dropping Robert Quinn Out of Round 1

[DraftBoy]

Via Twitter;


After just an average workout at Combine, I graded 4 more games of R. Quinn and will definitely be lowering his grade out of the 1st round.

http://twitter.com/#!/RUSSLANDE

Also says;


The more I evaluate Nate Solder, the more I see Robert Gallery blocking for the Iowa Hawkeyes - He is a better athlete than football player.


Why is no one talking about Cameron Jordan hitting a home run at the Combine to prove he is an Elite prospect & should be a Top 10 Pick.

[Bangarang]

I was never a big fan of Quinn. Most of his 11 sacks were against inferior competition.

[better days]

I would love Quinn at #34.

[k-oneputt]

Another "expert" trying to make a name for himself with assine predictions and hoping something sticks. Sort of like the Bills scouts and their stupid ass drafts for the last ten years.

[Bangarang]

Another "expert" trying to make a name for himself with assine predictions and hoping something sticks. Sort of like the Bills scouts and their stupid ass drafts for the last ten years.

And yet if Mike Mayock says this guy could go #1, everyone craps their pants with excitement.

[k-oneputt]

Do you really think Quinn is dropping out of the 1st rd. ?

[DraftBoy]

Another "expert" trying to make a name for himself with assine predictions and hoping something sticks. Sort of like the Bills scouts and their stupid ass drafts for the last ten years.
Lande has more than already made a name for himself as well as a good bit of money. He has no need (nor does he) just make assinine perdictions to try and prove himself. If he says it, you can take it to the bank that he believes it.

[cookie G]

I never thought about the Solder-Gallery comparison...it made me laugh a little. I can see it. At least no one has Solder as a top 3 pick.

[FlyingDutchman]

I wonder if he meant Cam Newton

[Night Train]

In December, Lande had Dareus not being picked in the first round. My friend sent me his War Room mock. He also didn't have him listed in his Top 5 DL.

Now he has him #1 at DL. It's as if he just discovered him.

[Extremebillsfan247]

What if he was right and we had a shot at both Dareus and Quinn? That would be an amazing start to a Bills draft in my opinion. But, it won't happen. lol

[X-Era]

I could see Cameron Jordan being drafted as the #2 DE. I think it's Bowers then Jordan. JJ Watt would probably be the next guy.

And I could see the DT's going Dareus then Fairley.

Jordan may even go before Von Miller.

[k-oneputt]

In December, Lande had Dareus not being picked in the first round. My friend sent me his War Room mock. He also didn't have him listed in his Top 5 DL.

Now he has him #1 at DL. It's as if he just discovered him.

Exactly what I mean by assine predictions. Did this guy not watch the last two seasons of college football. Dareus not even in his top-5 dt's then all of a sudden he is #1 ? this guy is full of ****. Now he's on to Quinn.
So if one of those guys happens to bust out in 3 or 4 years he can say he told us, but if they don't nobody will remember his stupid evaluations.
Like the Bills scouting dept always reaching for their Sunbelt and Conference USA players. Stop trying to make something that is not there. Expert my ass.

[TigerJ]

Coinciding with Cameron Jordan's post combine rise in the draftee stock market, www.drafttek.com (http://www.drafttek.com) has him going to the Bills at # 3 with Marcell Dareus still on the board in their latest "consensus mock draft."

[ddaryl]

Cameron Jordan would be a great pick up if we ended up trading down a few slots. He is a beast against the run. I don't think any of the top 3 DL have moved behind him though, so I don't think he would be our choice at #3.

[DraftBoy]

In December, Lande had Dareus not being picked in the first round. My friend sent me his War Room mock. He also didn't have him listed in his Top 5 DL.

Now he has him #1 at DL. It's as if he just discovered him.

I actually spoke to somebody close to Russ about that exact situation. You'll also notice that despite everybody else having Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara as their top 2 CB's Russ has Jimmy Smith.

The person I spoke with said that Russ just trusts what he sees on the tape, he's not as influenced as others in the business by outside factors. He really just scouts guys and grades as he sees so he will always be a little out of the norm. Now do I agree with eveything he writes or grades? No but to act like he is just doing this to garner attention is an insult to a man who has done more to pave the way for draft fans getting more access than almost any other guy in the business.

He's one of the best and he is one hell of a tape watcher.

[DraftBoy]

Exactly what I mean by assine predictions. Did this guy not watch the last two seasons of college football. Dareus not even in his top-5 dt's then all of a sudden he is #1 ? this guy is full of ****. Now he's on to Quinn.
So if one of those guys happens to bust out in 3 or 4 years he can say he told us, but if they don't nobody will remember his stupid evaluations.
Like the Bills scouting dept always reaching for their Sunbelt and Conference USA players. Stop trying to make something that is not there. Expert my ass.

Some scouts don't watch underclassmen very closely till after they declare, which is the case in Dareus. I know because unlike your assumptions, I actually asked the question about why Dareus is so low.

The response I got was that while he was aware of how good Dareus was based on reputation but he had yet to watch Dareus closely enough to go with everybody else. Clearly he saw more of Dareus and not only did he make him the tio DT before everybody else (last mock was 2/21) but he did so after he own evaluation. I can't fault a guy who actually does his job of watching tape before spouting off at the mouth.

[alohabillsfan]

2 arrests for possesion of alcohol by a minor and a positive drug test will lower your grade, yes top talent but with maturity issues. What happens when he gets paid? That is what you dont see on tape.

[k-oneputt]

What tape did he watch to move Dareus from out of his top five dt's up to number one ?????
The Bills will probably end up hiring this guy.

[Ickybaluky]

That's nuts.

Quinn is tops on my list of "guys I'd most like to see the Patriots draft". However, I know they have no shot at him, because he will go top 10, maybe even top 5. I know he missed games due to suspension, but I don't know how you can look at that guy and not see him as an elite prospect. He screams it.

The fact the guy said he let the combine performance effect his grade is telling. People totally overrate the combine. Teams have been grading these guys since they were freshman, so them running around in shorts isn't going to effect the grade that dramatically. Typically draftnik crap. Unless he has some new off-field stuff found out or had poor interviews at the combine, his grade isn't changing.

[alohabillsfan]

well said icky.

[Ickybaluky]

You'll also notice that despite everybody else having Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara as their top 2 CB's Russ has Jimmy Smith.

The questions with Smith are all off-field. That is why he isn't listed higher by most. Nobody questions that his talent should have him high, but he had some off-field issues.

[k-oneputt]

Some scouts don't watch underclassmen very closely till after they declare, which is the case in Dareus. I know because unlike your assumptions, I actually asked the question about why Dareus is so low.

The response I got was that while he was aware of how good Dareus was based on reputation but he had yet to watch Dareus closely enough to go with everybody else. Clearly he saw more of Dareus and not only did he make him the tio DT before everybody else (last mock was 2/21) but he did so after he own evaluation. I can't fault a guy who actually does his job of watching tape before spouting off at the mouth.

Doesn't he watch college football ? Alabama is on tv about ten times a year. The guy jumps off the screen dominating in the games I watch from my couch. I don't need to disect a tape to see the guy can play.

[DraftBoy]

That's nuts.

Quinn is tops on my list of "guys I'd most like to see the Patriots draft". However, I know they have no shot at him, because he will go top 10, maybe even top 5. I know he missed games due to suspension, but I don't know how you can look at that guy and not see him as an elite prospect. He screams it.

The fact the guy said he let the combine performance effect his grade is telling. People totally overrate the combine. Teams have been grading these guys since they were freshman, so them running around in shorts isn't going to effect the grade that dramatically. Typically draftnik crap. Unless he has some new off-field stuff found out or had poor interviews at the combine, his grade isn't changing.

Don't be so sure of that, Quinn is more based on potential than anything else. His production is severly lacking in several areas and he's very much a hot and cold pass rusher. He needs lots of work technique wise, I actually just did his report for another site the other night a few things I noticed was that he is poor at the POA, his strength really prevents him from disengaging off blocks.

There is a good video of Quinn going up against Anthony Costanzo on Youtube from 2009 that shows his strengths and weaknesses.

[k-oneputt]

Castanzo also said at the combine that Quinn was the best player he played against. Go fiqure.

[Ickybaluky]

Don't be so sure of that, Quinn is more based on potential than anything else. His production is severly lacking in several areas and he's very much a hot and cold pass rusher. He needs lots of work technique wise, I actually just did his report for another site the other night a few things I noticed was that he is poor at the POA, his strength really prevents him from disengaging off blocks.

There is a good video of Quinn going up against Anthony Costanzo on Youtube from 2009 that shows his strengths and weaknesses.

You could have said all the same things about Julius Peppers. No player coming out of college is going to be perfect. They all have strengths and weaknesses. They don't make perfect players.

It has nothing to do with "potential". He can rush the passer, end of story. That trumps everything else. He is 6-4, 265# and has an explosive first step. You don't have to watch him much to see he has a good motor and plays with effort. He is hurt by having to sit out last year, but if you watch him much you see a guy who is going to be a double-digit sacker in the NFL.

Does he need to work on a counter move? Yep.

Does he need to be more stout against the run and not allow himself to get muscled out of the play? Yep.

However, you can work on those things. You can't teach what he has, which is the ability to pressure the passer.

I'm praying he drops to the Pats in the mid-first, but I doubt it will happen. The only hope is teams are scared off by his suspension or some off-field stuff I don't know about. The idea he will fall into the 2nd round is silly, IMO. He can rush the passer, and that is at a premium. He doesn't have to be a perfect player, but he screams 1st round.

[DraftBoy]

You could have said all the same things about Julius Peppers. No player coming out of college is going to be perfect. They all have strengths and weaknesses. They don't make perfect players.It has nothing to do with "potential". He can rush the passer, end of story. That trumps everything else. He is 6-4, 265# and has an explosive first step. You don't have to watch him much to see he has a good motor and plays with effort. He is hurt by having to sit out last year, but if you watch him much you see a guy who is going to be a double-digit sacker in the NFL.

Does he need to work on a counter move? Yep.

Does he need to be more stout against the run and not allow himself to get muscled out of the play? Yep.

However, you can work on those things. You can't teach what he has, which is the ability to pressure the passer.

I'm praying he drops to the Pats in the mid-first, but I doubt it will happen. The only hope is teams are scared off by his suspension or some off-field stuff I don't know about. The idea he will fall into the 2nd round is silly, IMO. He can rush the passer, and that is at a premium. He doesn't have to be a perfect player, but he screams 1st round.

No you couldn't Peppers had plenty of strength coming out of college, was a comparable athlete, but Peppers also had counter moves (dangerous spin to the inside) and power to bull rush when he wanted to.

Quinn lacks much of what Peppers had and that's a constant comparison I dont get because if Quinn doesnt play at UNC that comparison never gets made.

[DraftBoy]

Doesn't he watch college football ? Alabama is on tv about ten times a year. The guy jumps off the screen dominating in the games I watch from my couch. I don't need to disect a tape to see the guy can play.

There is a difference between watching a game and scouting a game. You know that.

[dasaybz]

I'd like to see some kind of a history with Lande. How were his evaluations the past 5 years? I'd like to see what he said about the past 5 draft classes.

[Ickybaluky]

No you couldn't Peppers had plenty of strength coming out of college, was a comparable athlete, but Peppers also had counter moves (dangerous spin to the inside) and power to bull rush when he wanted to.

Quinn lacks much of what Peppers had and that's a constant comparison I dont get because if Quinn doesnt play at UNC that comparison never gets made.

I never said he was as good as Peppers. He isn't. Peppers is a once-in-a-decade guy. Quinn is nowhere near Peppers in terms of prospect.

The point is there were questions about Peppers coming out, but he still went #2 overall. When Peppers was coming out there were guys questioning inconsistent effort and how much he loves football. Peppers had a quirky personality. Many of those questions have been brought up during his career, but they miss the point.

However, Quinn is a natural edge-rusher. He has an explosive first step and his technique is better than you give him credit for. He needs a counter move, but he will pressure the QB. That is why he will go high, all the other stuff is just fluff.

Bottom line is he has incredible speed off the edge. The NFL will look at that and figure they can teach him the rest. What he has is so valued it will make him go real high.

2nd round? Only if he has some sort of hidden issues, like he raped a nun or something.

[k-oneputt]

Pass rushers, qb's, and linemen.

The top commodities in the NFL.

You have those three things and you win. The rest you can find and fill in.

[The Jokeman]

2nd round? Only if he has some sort of hidden issues, like he raped a nun or something.
Some teams might be scared of the brain tumor etc. NFL execs will always find an excuse to not take a guy. If he did fall to Round 2 as a Bills fan I'd love for us to nab him but if there was a team that could risk on him in Round 1 it's your Pats since they have a stockpile of picks in the first three rounds. I even stated in another thread that felt the Pats could end up getting him. I could also see a team like the Ravens taking a chance since they have a lower first round pick on him yet teams in the top 5 often can't be as "risky" in making their picks.

[DraftBoy]

I never said he was as good as Peppers. He isn't. Peppers is a once-in-a-decade guy. Quinn is nowhere near Peppers in terms of prospect.

The point is there were questions about Peppers coming out, but he still went #2 overall. When Peppers was coming out there were guys questioning inconsistent effort and how much he loves football. Peppers had a quirky personality. Many of those questions have been brought up during his career, but they miss the point.

However, Quinn is a natural edge-rusher. He has an explosive first step and his technique is better than you give him credit for. He needs a counter move, but he will pressure the QB. That is why he will go high, all the other stuff is just fluff.

Bottom line is he has incredible speed off the edge. The NFL will look at that and figure they can teach him the rest. What he has is so valued it will make him go real high.

2nd round? Only if he has some sort of hidden issues, like he raped a nun or something.

When you make comparisons to guys you know the natural conclusion is to assume you are saying they are of similar caliber. I apologize for the misconception. I dont think the questions about Quinn's maturity as compared to Peppers effort and passiong are all that comparable but its all about how you weight off the field issues and I prefer to keep this on the field because its just easier.

There is no denying Quinn's speed off the edge, and he is a sound tackler, though he leaves his feet too often for my liking when going for a big hit. However I have to disagree on my under selling of Quinn's technique, its just not that good. He has good but not great footwork but still gets way too skinny at the POA against bigger OT's (again see Castonzo video), he doesnt have the stregnth to bull rush his opponent which I think is something he badly needs to add. His hand placement both on his rush and when trying to disengage is below average, and they year off won't do much to help that.

I think too many people are seeing his first step and speed off the edge and thinking he can learn everything, which he can but if people think he's going to come into camp and be a Day 1 starter they are mistaken. He may not even see the field much his rookie year because he hasn't played football in so long. He has a steeper learning curve that most care to admit, but that doesnt mean he can't do it.

I still like him in the middle to early part of Round 1, but he's not a sure fire top 5 or 10 guy like some are saying.

[k-oneputt]

And he surely isn't falling to the 2nd rd. either.
He has a skill that makes teams jump and somebody is taking him early 1st.

[DraftBoy]

And he surely isn't falling to the 2nd rd. either.
He has a skill that makes teams jump and somebody is taking him early 1st.

No he has the skills that make fans jump, teams do a little bit more research beyond he runs fast and has a quick first step.

[Ickybaluky]

but if there was a team that could risk on him in Round 1 it's your Pats since they have a stockpile of picks in the first three rounds. I even stated in another thread that felt the Pats could end up getting him.

The Pats don't usually take those kinds of risks in the first round. They usually do after that, like they did with Rob Gronkowski in the 2nd (after missing a year with a back injury) or Aaron Hernandez (drug quesitons) in the 4th last year.

A guy I could see them taking a chance on is Greg Romeus of Pitt, who only played 2 games last year because of back and knee injuries. He has the size they love in their OLB (6-5, 265#) and can rush the passer.

I think Quinn goes top-10. I'd be shocked if he didn't.

[better days]

No he has the skills that make fans jump, teams do a little bit more research beyond he runs fast and has a quick first step.

Quinn may have been the #1 pick if he played this past year. Big guys with speed like his are like gold & drafted high if they are not injured or have some other big question mark.

Other things can be taught, but you can't teach speed or size.

[DraftBoy]

The Pats don't usually take those kinds of risks in the first round. They usually do after that, like they did with Rob Gronkowski in the 2nd (after missing a year with a back injury) or Aaron Hernandez (drug quesitons) in the 4th last year.

A guy I could see them taking a chance on is Greg Romeus of Pitt, who only played 2 games last year because of back and knee injuries. He has the size they love in their OLB (6-5, 265#) and can rush the passer.

I think Quinn goes top-10. I'd be shocked if he didn't.

Would shock me if he goes top 10 or if he falls some. He has some issues on tape that give me cause for concern, and I can buy into what Lande sees to some degree.

That being said I dont think he's falling to Round 2.

[DraftBoy]

Quinn may have been the #1 pick if he played this past year. Big guys with speed like his are like gold & drafted high if they are not injured or have some other big question mark.

Other things can be taught, but you can't teach speed or size.

You're making massive assumptions on a guy who had one good year at Carolina who can run real fast. His stats are not incredible and either is he tape. Does he have potential? Of course, like you said size, speed and clearly some production show that he could one day realize it.

But to take him #1, he would of needed to have one hell of a year this past season, imo. Too much on tape he still needs to work on to put him at #1 overall.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Makes sense, I wouldn't touch Quinn at all. Poor recognition skills and has one pass rush move, speed. He's Aaron Maybin but 30 pounds heavier. Looks like a football player but isnt

[better days]

You're making massive assumptions on a guy who had one good year at Carolina who can run real fast. His stats are not incredible and either is he tape. Does he have potential? Of course, like you said size, speed and clearly some production show that he could one day realize it.

But to take him #1, he would of needed to have one hell of a year this past season, imo. Too much on tape he still needs to work on to put him at #1 overall.

All I am assuming is that he would have had a year as good as the last year he played. I don't think that is a massive assumption.

Quinn will be drafted in at least the top half of the 1st rnd IMO because of his speed, size & potential.

[DraftBoy]

All I am assuming is that he would have had a year as good as the last year he played. I don't think that is a massive assumption.

Quinn will be drafted in at least the top half of the 1st rnd IMO because of his speed, size & potential.

I think he would of needed a better year than he had in 09 to go #1 overall that's what Im saying, and why I call it a massive assumption.

I dont disagree with that second statement.

[better days]

I think he would of needed a better year than he had in 09 to go #1 overall that's what Im saying, and why I call it a massive assumption.

I dont disagree with that second statement.

Well, I did not say he would have been a lock to go #1, but I think he would have been in the mix as much as everyone else is.

[k-oneputt]

[quote=DraftBoy]Would shock me if he goes top 10 or if he falls some. He has some issues on tape that give me cause for concern, and I can buy into what Lande sees to some degree.

What exactly does that mean ?

He's not going in the 2nd rd. And as me being a fan I might not understand as much as yourself and Lande, but I see, even if he falls top 15.

[DraftBoy]

[quote=DraftBoy]Would shock me if he goes top 10 or if he falls some. He has some issues on tape that give me cause for concern, and I can buy into what Lande sees to some degree.

What exactly does that mean ?

He's not going in the 2nd rd. And as me being a fan I might not understand as much as yourself and Lande, but I see, even if he falls top 15.

It means that for everybody that is hopping aboard the Robert Quinn train saying he should go #1 overall or even top 5, I think its a huge leap. I dont see Quinn as a top 5 talent, I never have.

He has too many questions, I see why Lande would be knocking his grade based on his film because its good but not great. Where Lande and I disagree is that he seems to think his value will take a bigger hit than I will. I think Quinn goes between 10-20 in the 1st Round, I never thought he'd fall to Round 2. Too much potential there to pass on for a mid level team.

Im not defending Lande on saying Quinn is a second round prospect, Im defending Lande from people saying things about him and his work that are not true.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I did not say he would have been a lock to go #1, but I think he would have been in the mix as much as everyone else is.

Again I still think he'd need a bigger and better year than he had in 09 to be in the mix.

[ServoBillieves]

Asinine*

[better days]

Again I still think he'd need a bigger and better year than he had in 09 to be in the mix.

Well I disagree with you. If he had a better year, he would not have been in the mix, he would have been a lock to go #1 when Luck dropped out. It is just opinion, but I know there are many others that feel the same as I do & that includes people in the National media.

[alohabillsfan]

You tube scouts... ROFL