I know you guys are going to get on for complaining about an 8-2 win...

[OpIv37]

but how many ****ing breakaways are Vanek and Pominville going to miss? Vanek had 2 last night and at least 1 in the previous game and missed all 3. Pominville hasn't had as many opportunities but doesn't fair much better when he does.

Vanek actually had a few decent breakaway goals a few weeks back so I thought maybe he had broken out of the slump, but now he's right back to form. With Roy out, Vanek and Pominville should be our two top scorers, yet they consistently fail on plays that should be to their advantage.

Even Ennis managed to score on a breakaway with a defenseman throwing his stick. Makes you wonder why guys with more experience like Vanek and Pominville can't score on the same goalie with wide open opportunities.

[Ebenezer]

Shut the **** up.

[OpIv37]

Shut the **** up.
Good, intelligent response as to why two of our top scorers can't score on plays where they should have a huge advantage.

[psubills62]

You know what else? Light isn't fast enough. Eight whole ****ing minutes to get from the sun to the earth? What kind of grandma photons is the sun putting out, anyway?

And while we're on the subject, the sun is TOO **** BRIGHT. I mean, what the ****? I look up, I don't want to see some old bag of a star shining right in my ****ing eyes. Just annoying.

And what is up with water? Tasteless, far too wet, and clear. It's boring. We might as well drink air. Oh wait, we do. We have to breathe every five to ten ****ing seconds. There should at least be flavor added to air and water. Maybe some raspberry, some cherry, or ambrosia. Something to make it taste less dull would be nice.

In the meantime, technology is SO ****ING SLOW. I mean, we've been using computers for what, 40 years now? Where are the **** brain chips already? Why am I not flying in my invisible car?

And lastly, WHY IS NO ONE ELSE THIS PISSED OFF????

[trapezeus]

Vaneks shot hit the post, the goalie, the crossbar and then missed. It's not like he's firing them wide. It's good his struggles are now. He'll break out right as the playoffs start.

Plus nieds is doing the scoring these days. Still holding on to the fact he'll score the most playoff goals.

[OpIv37]

Does anyone else want to discuss why Pominville and Vanek can't score on breakaways, or would you rather just criticize me an pretend it's not a problem?

You guys got so mad at me for not finding the positive in the loss to Carolina a few weeks back. If that's acceptable, then it should be just as acceptable to find the negative in a win.

If this team does make the playoffs, there won't be a whole lot of 8-2 games. The games will be physical and close, and the teams that win will be the ones that capitalize on these opportunities. So, go ahead and ignore it now. Go ahead and act like I'm complaining about nothing. But don't be surprised when missing these opportunities comes back to bite us in the ass later on.

[SabreEleven]

I thought you were going to ***** about the two soft goals Miller let in.

[Nighthawk]

I thought you were going to ***** about the two soft goals Miller let in.

I was at the game and those were awful...should never go in.

[hydro]

Does anyone else want to discuss why Pominville and Vanek can't score on breakaways, or would you rather just criticize me an pretend it's not a problem?

You guys got so mad at me for not finding the positive in the loss to Carolina a few weeks back. If that's acceptable, then it should be just as acceptable to find the negative in a win.

If this team does make the playoffs, there won't be a whole lot of 8-2 games. The games will be physical and close, and the teams that win will be the ones that capitalize on these opportunities. So, go ahead and ignore it now. Go ahead and act like I'm complaining about nothing. But don't be surprised when missing these opportunities comes back to bite us in the ass later on.

No, nobody wants to talk about two missed breakaways. You are one sad individual.

[MikeInRoch]

I find it entertaining that when the Sabres lose but play well, the only thing that matters is who won the game. When they win but have a couple flaws, the win is relatively not important compared to the flaws.

[OpIv37]

No, nobody wants to talk about two missed breakaways. You are one sad individual.

if it were JUST two, you may have a point. It was 2 in one game, and dozens over the course of the season.

[OpIv37]

I find it entertaining that when the Sabres lose but play well, the only thing that matters is who won the game. When they win but have a couple flaws, the win is relatively not important compared to the flaws.

apparently, you haven't noticed that those flaws keep us from winning games in the future and keep us from going anywhere in the playoffs, if they don't keep us from making it at all.

I find it entertaining that you guys like to talk about how we "played well" in a loss but put your head in the sand when it comes to flaws in a win.

[Philagape]

Teams usually win because what they did well outweighs their flaws. So yes, winning makes the flaws less relevant. The Sabres are 8-3-2 under Pegula.
What's more important: If unsuccessful breakaways "come back to bite them," or if the offense continues to make that flaw irrelevant? The Sabres are seventh in the league in goals per game, and are trending upward.
Why is it only the flaws that will continue into the future?

[OpIv37]

Teams usually win because what they did well outweighs their flaws. So yes, winning makes the flaws less relevant. The Sabres are 8-3-2 under Pegula.
What's more important: If unsuccessful breakaways "come back to bite them," or if the offense continues to make that flaw irrelevant? The Sabres are seventh in the league in goals per game, and are trending upward.
Why is it only the flaws that will continue into the future?

because they're the same flaws that have existed over the last 3 1/2 years. You guys seem to forget that and think that only the last 3 weeks matter.

[OpIv37]

Teams usually win because what they did well outweighs their flaws. So yes, winning makes the flaws less relevant. The Sabres are 8-3-2 under Pegula.
What's more important: If unsuccessful breakaways "come back to bite them," or if the offense continues to make that flaw irrelevant? The Sabres are seventh in the league in goals per game, and are trending upward.
Why is it only the flaws that will continue into the future?

also, in case you didn't notice, playoff hockey is more physical, the refs swallow the whistle and scoring goes down. That's why these flaws are more relevant than increased overall scoring.

[Philagape]

because they're the same flaws that have existed over the last 3 1/2 years. You guys seem to forget that and think that only the last 3 weeks matter.

How about 3 months; they're 20-10-something since the beginning of the year. Do you think the team now isn't any better than last year's playoff team? Boyes has turned out to be a huge addition, and obviously the team has responded well to the new owner.
I don't know if anyone considers them a legit Cup contender now, but they're going in the right direction, and Pegula's going to give it his all to make them legit.

[OpIv37]

How about 3 months; they're 20-10-something since the beginning of the year. Do you think the team now isn't any better than last year's playoff team? Boyes has turned out to be a huge addition, and obviously the team has responded well to the new owner.
I don't know if anyone considers them a legit Cup contender now, but they're going in the right direction, and Pegula's going to give it his all to make them legit.

that's still 3 months compared to 3 1/2 years. And the team may be playing better over the last 3 months, but they're still not built for playoff hockey. The top scorers missing breakaways shows one of the reasons why.

[Philagape]

that's still 3 months compared to 3 1/2 years. And the team may be playing better over the last 3 months, but they're still not built for playoff hockey. The top scorers missing breakaways shows one of the reasons why.

History is history. The team is better now.
Like I said, I don't expect a deep run this year, but they may win a round, which is more than what I expected earlier this season.

[Ebenezer]

History is history. The team is better now.
Like I said, I don't expect a deep run this year, but they may win a round, which is more than what I expected earlier this season.
When Roy went down and they were 29th in the league many of us were calling for the team to be disbanded and try to win the lottery. At this point, the playoffs would be like being the ugly, fat kid invited to have sex with the prom queen...only one person I know would complain about that.

[OpIv37]

When Roy went down and they were 29th in the league many of us were calling for the team to be disbanded and try to win the lottery. At this point, the playoffs would be like being the ugly, fat kid invited to have sex with the prom queen...only one person I know would complain about that.

And this is exactly what I mean when I say Buffalo fans have accepted mediocrity. "we started bad, so just making the playoffs is good enough."

Fans of every other team in the league expect them to compete for a Stanley Cup, but for us, just making the playoffs is compared to a fantasy coming true.

[YardRat]

Not strictly breakaways, but Vanek's shooting % is 12.3, Pommers is 9.6. Not very stellar numbers by any stretch.

[Crisis]

random but i don't know where else i can express my love for the midget forechecking machine gerbe

[hydro]

If you were at all moderate in your sports team views I might care what you have to say. You constantly talk about the negative because that is all you know. Have fun being right about everything that is wrong with the team even though the "wrong" hasn't stopped us from being a playoff contender.

[MikeInRoch]

I guess we should be thankful you actually watched this game before judging it.

[Crisis]

epic chokejob

inb4 op

[Philagape]

And Miller is a way bigger problem with this team than missed breakaways; he'll be their downfall this year.

[OpIv37]

If you were at all moderate in your sports team views I might care what you have to say. You constantly talk about the negative because that is all you know. Have fun being right about everything that is wrong with the team even though the "wrong" hasn't stopped us from being a playoff contender.

When was the last time we won a championship or even made a deep playoff run? when was the last time the Bills even made the playoffs? The negative is the reality. Deny it all you want but the results speak for themselves.

We are in a dogfight for the 8th playoff spot. If you don't think the "wrong" has held us back, you have your head in the sand.

And once again, no challenge or response to my comments on not being able to score on breakaways, because there isn't one. Facts are facts. So once again, you turn the discussion back to my attitude. It's disgusting how much that happens.

[trapezeus]

the thing is that the sabres on paper look like they've done quite well, but the flaws on the team are the thing that prevents them from performing consistently.

Yeah, vanek didn't score in the predators game with the team scoring 8 goals, who cares. but he also missed in carolina and had the puck not rolled off his stick, he'd have tied the game and gotten us another point.

The sabres clearly aren't made for a deep playoff run. i hope that they do, but when you look at miller's soft goals, the sabres defense that comes and goes at will, the scorers being inconsistent, we as fans are more left with just praying that they are hot than them just being a good team that can handle anything.

but their our team. we're stuck with them, so might as well root as hard as you can because they'll need every single positive thing coming their direction.

[chernobylwraiths]

I wonder if there are stats anywhere for goals on breakaways. Aside from shootouts that is. When you get a breakaway, though you are in the clear, you still have to go as fast as you can and make sure nobody catches you from behind. That gives an even heavier advantage to the goalie because there isn't enough time to do a lot. In recent years, I would think that goalies save between 80 and 90% of breakaways.

[Ebenezer]

I wonder if there are stats anywhere for goals on breakaways. Aside from shootouts that is. When you get a breakaway, though you are in the clear, you still have to go as fast as you can and make sure nobody catches you from behind. That gives an even heavier advantage to the goalie because there isn't enough time to do a lot. In recent years, I would think that goalies save between 80 and 90% of breakaways.
It's not like an open dunk in basketball.

[chernobylwraiths]

It's not like an open dunk in basketball.

Or even like how it used to be in hockey before all the goalie equipment got huge.

I looked briefly and could find nothing online for any breakaway scoring percentages.

[Ebenezer]

Or even like how it used to be in hockey before all the goalie equipment got huge.

I looked briefly and could find nothing online for any breakaway scoring percentages.
It's probably not even a stat that is kept. Define "breakaway". Is it a breakaway if you have two D draped on you? Do you need to come down the center of the ice or can you come from the boards? Is it a breakaway if the D coughs up the puck and you are 1-1 with the goalie?

Score goals. I don't care if they never score on a breakaway. Just score. Pommes did that less than a minute into the game. If he did that in every other game that would be 40 goals. Wouldn't have to score any on a breakaway. I wouldn't care.

[hydro]

When was the last time we won a championship or even made a deep playoff run? when was the last time the Bills even made the playoffs? The negative is the reality. Deny it all you want but the results speak for themselves.

We are in a dogfight for the 8th playoff spot. If you don't think the "wrong" has held us back, you have your head in the sand.

And once again, no challenge or response to my comments on not being able to score on breakaways, because there isn't one. Facts are facts. So once again, you turn the discussion back to my attitude. It's disgusting how much that happens.

If the "wrong" held us back we would still be 29th in the NHL. With everything that you have *****ed about we went from the cellar to a playoff spot. If a championship is the only thing that will ever make you happy then I feel really bad for you.

[chernobylwraiths]

It's probably not even a stat that is kept. Define "breakaway". Is it a breakaway if you have two D draped on you? Do you need to come down the center of the ice or can you come from the boards? Is it a breakaway if the D coughs up the puck and you are 1-1 with the goalie?

Score goals. I don't care if they never score on a breakaway. Just score. Pommes did that less than a minute into the game. If he did that in every other game that would be 40 goals. Wouldn't have to score any on a breakaway. I wouldn't care.

Buffalo is 7th in the entire NHL in goals per game. It isn't that. Miller hasn't had a great season, but he is far from the problem here. Our defense has been bad at times this year. They are ok offensively, but defensively at times they have been atrocious.

[G Wolly]

Buffalo is 7th in the entire NHL in goals per game. It isn't that. Miller hasn't had a great season, but he is far from the problem here. Our defense has been bad at times this year. They are ok offensively, but defensively at times they have been atrocious.

Blame always falls on the goalie, no matter what.

But if the Defense in front of him keeps allowing the other team opportunities to score, that's exactly what will happen.

I'm obviously no professional goalie, but I play goal in a couple roller/floor leagues. I've gotten a couple shutouts and after both of them I didn't take any credit. I credit it to the guys in front of me doing work and helping me out by blocking shots and keeping them from getting shots through.

However, in games where we'd get killed I'd have no help and get tired quickly and face a lot of shots.

If Miller only faced about 20 shots a night and allowed 3+ goals that's a bad stat for a goalie and a goalie like him shouldn't allow more than that. But if he faces upwards of 40 shots or even more, blame has to focus on the defense.

[Ebenezer]

Buffalo is 7th in the entire NHL in goals per game. It isn't that. Miller hasn't had a great season, but he is far from the problem here. Our defense has been bad at times this year. They are ok offensively, but defensively at times they have been atrocious.
I still say losing both Tallinder and Lydman, regardless what they are doing this year, affect the team; maybe more mentally then actually on the ice.

[trapezeus]

If the "wrong" held us back we would still be 29th in the NHL. With everything that you have *****ed about we went from the cellar to a playoff spot. If a championship is the only thing that will ever make you happy then I feel really bad for you.

Really? because we've watched buffalo teams lose in every conceivable manner. For once wouldn't you just like to see them win it all once?!

aren't you tired of just being in the game. don't you want to buy the championship t-shirt and hat and DVD?

Every time after the superbowl i always get so jealous when they are like, "buy your packerse official whatever...and i am just looking at my crap bills tshirt and am like, this blows!"

[hydro]

Really? because we've watched buffalo teams lose in every conceivable manner. For once wouldn't you just like to see them win it all once?!

aren't you tired of just being in the game. don't you want to buy the championship t-shirt and hat and DVD?

Every time after the superbowl i always get so jealous when they are like, "buy your packerse official whatever...and i am just looking at my crap bills tshirt and am like, this blows!"

There is a BIG difference between being happy with how a team is playing even if it isn't without flaws and just being totally irrational about how a team plays because they haven't won a championship. The fact that I even have to reply to this post and say "of course I want us to win a championship" sickens me. Just because we haven't won anything as Buffalo fans doesn't mean everything this team does is negative. If I couldn't find something positive about this team once in a while I would go insane or rant and rave like Opiv.

[OpIv37]

If the "wrong" held us back we would still be 29th in the NHL. With everything that you have *****ed about we went from the cellar to a playoff spot. If a championship is the only thing that will ever make you happy then I feel really bad for you.

red herring argument. You're basically saying "you ***** too much," not "there's nothing wrong with the team." Once again, ignoring my criticism of the team and turning it back to my attitude. I don't really care if you think I ***** too much- this team has issues regardless of your opinion of me.

You know what's better than being in the cellar and fighting up to a playoff spot? Never being in the ****ing cellar. If you are satisfied with anything less than a championship, then I feel bad for you.

[OpIv37]

There is a BIG difference between being happy with how a team is playing even if it isn't without flaws and just being totally irrational about how a team plays because they haven't won a championship. The fact that I even have to reply to this post and say "of course I want us to win a championship" sickens me. Just because we haven't won anything as Buffalo fans doesn't mean everything this team does is negative. If I couldn't find something positive about this team once in a while I would go insane or rant and rave like Opiv.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain Vanek's missed breakaways that spawned this thread- not just the ones in the specific games, but the ones he's had all year.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we're in a dogfight for the last playoff spot.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we had to crawl our way out of the basement.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how we blew a 2 goal lead with 2:00 left in the game.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how the only thing this team has accomplished since Briere and Drury left is being upset by a division rival in the first round of the the playoffs.

The key word in there is "FIND." You have to work to find the positive. The negative kicks you in the nuts whether you choose to see it coming or not. I don't like the fact that this is reality. I don't like the fact that the problems with the Bills and Sabres are so damn obvious, but it is what it is. Either accept the fact that the team has problems and people will be discussing those problems on a message board devoted to the team, or get a new team.

[G Wolly]

If I'm being totally irrational, explain Vanek's missed breakaways that spawned this thread- not just the ones in the specific games, but the ones he's had all year.

He's human and nobody's perfect? :idunno:

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we're in a dogfight for the last playoff spot.

Because Carolina and the Rangers keep winning?

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we had to crawl our way out of the basement.

Can't explain why, but we did

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how we blew a 2 goal lead with 2:00 left in the game.

Defense sucks

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how the only thing this team has accomplished since Briere and Drury left is being upset by a division rival in the first round of the the playoffs.

Changing ownership to a guy who actually gives a **** seems like an accomplishment to me

[hydro]

If I'm being totally irrational, explain Vanek's missed breakaways that spawned this thread- not just the ones in the specific games, but the ones he's had all year.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we're in a dogfight for the last playoff spot.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain why we had to crawl our way out of the basement.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how we blew a 2 goal lead with 2:00 left in the game.

If I'm being totally irrational, explain how the only thing this team has accomplished since Briere and Drury left is being upset by a division rival in the first round of the the playoffs.

The key word in there is "FIND." You have to work to find the positive. The negative kicks you in the nuts whether you choose to see it coming or not. I don't like the fact that this is reality. I don't like the fact that the problems with the Bills and Sabres are so damn obvious, but it is what it is. Either accept the fact that the team has problems and people will be discussing those problems on a message board devoted to the team, or get a new team.

I can't even explain in words how little sense this makes. You are so deep in your sorrowing thoughts that you are literally not making sense. Why would I get a new team if I am perfectly fine with following this one? There shouldn't be one post of mine that would make you think otherwise. You are the one that is constantly unhappy. Maybe you should just root for the "perfect" teams that you always stack your favorite teams up against.

And just for the fact that you went with the same defense of "get a new team" which you vilify Eb for saying to you, tells me you are irrational.

[OpIv37]

I can't even explain in words how little sense this makes. You are so deep in your sorrowing thoughts that you are literally not making sense. Why would I get a new team if I am perfectly fine with following this one? There shouldn't be one post of mine that would make you think otherwise. You are the one that is constantly unhappy. Maybe you should just root for the "perfect" teams that you always stack your favorite teams up against.

And just for the fact that you went with the same defense of "get a new team" which you vilify Eb for saying to you, tells me you are irrational.
Lmao- you like the team because you ignore the bad while digging out the good, and you shoot the messenger when someone forces you to acknowledge reality.

Somehow, you got this pie-in-the-sky idea that the team should always make you happy. the reality is they have a log of problems tha you are ignoring so you can stay happy.

Oh, and yet again you are ignoring the points I made about the team so you can stick to your false claim of irrationality. The only irrational thing is finding criteria other than winning to make you happy about the team.

[Ebenezer]

Somehow, you got this pie-in-the-sky idea that the team should always make you happy. the reality is they have a log of problems tha you are ignoring so you can stay happy.

Where do you get off basically inferring that if we don't find consistent and persistent problems with this team and continue to ***** about them that we are ignorant and blind to those problems or that we are in happy happy la la land? This is what YOU fail to realize. We see the problems, we understand the game, we are not idiots. However, unlike you we don't continue to dwell on the problems - problems all teams have if you comb through everything every player has to do - no team goes 82-0. Many of the rest of us are trying to enjoy the ride despite the team's shortfalls. You are so deadshot on getting a championship that you fail to just enjoy anything. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think this team is going to win the cup? No. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think it's an incredible success just to make the playoffs? No. The point you don't get is that we are trying to enjoy the team regardless the eventual outcome. Hence, it's counterproductive to constantly *****. You just can't get over that. You can't allow yourself to enjoy anything. You must constantly find fault. And deny as much as you want, having witnessed your rants here and on facebook I can honestly say that you are not a happy person unless you are *****ing. Your nit-picking is so counterproductive. You are worse than a type A personality. There is nothing but perfection that will make you happy. Nobody's life should ever affect an others like you allow things to affect you. And before you turn it to your misguided self defense about us ignoring your salient points and turning the argument back on you, just save it...examine how you perceive things, just not hockey, and really think about how YOU address things and let things get to you.

[hydro]

Where do you get off basically inferring that if we don't find consistent and persistent problems with this team and continue to ***** about them that we are ignorant and blind to those problems or that we are in happy happy la la land? This is what YOU fail to realize. We see the problems, we understand the game, we are not idiots. However, unlike you we don't continue to dwell on the problems - problems all teams have if you comb through everything every player has to do - no team goes 82-0. Many of the rest of us are trying to enjoy the ride despite the team's shortfalls. You are so deadshot on getting a championship that you fail to just enjoy anything. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think this team is going to win the cup? No. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think it's an incredible success just to make the playoffs? No. The point you don't get is that we are trying to enjoy the team regardless the eventual outcome. Hence, it's counterproductive to constantly *****. You just can't get over that. You can't allow yourself to enjoy anything. You must constantly find fault. And deny as much as you want, having witnessed your rants here and on facebook I can honestly say that you are not a happy person unless you are *****ing. Your nit-picking is so counterproductive. You are worse than a type A personality. There is nothing but perfection that will make you happy. Nobody's life should ever affect an others like you allow things to affect you. And before you turn it to your misguided self defense about us ignoring your salient points and turning the argument back on you, just save it...examine how you perceive things, just not hockey, and really think about how YOU address things and let things get to you.

:bf1::bf1::bf1::bf1::bf1::bf1::bf1:

Even though Opiv will never admit he is wrong this is DEAD on.

[chernobylwraiths]

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about a bad "trend" or seeing things that go wrong in a win. I really don't think Op hates to see them win and only looks at the flaws. I remember myself watching our win against the Rangers a few weeks back and thought how bad we looked and how we were running around in our own zone. I thought at the time that maybe they are coached this organized chaos and it was supposed to confuse other teams. I mean, sometimes it looks like we win by accident.

[trapezeus]

i'm not saying that overly optimistic people don't want to win championships either. but they are quicker to watch a sabres team collapse and keep rationalizing the losses and ties.

yes the sabres have been on a great run for 2011. But they've left points on the table. what is frustrating is that their 7 game road trip went well at 4-2-1. However those two losses were games they were winning and played well in. and it was breakdowns that lead to a loss. the tie was a game of poor goaltending. not i know it's virtually impossible to go 7-0, yet the team had put themselves in a position to do it.

And for every time that you think, "oh finally, they are taking control, they leave someone else alive.

And everytime they have problems, someone has to think, "is this going to be a problem against playoff teams. that's my biggest concern is that we can be mildly competitive in the regular season. is this team going to be able to play that boston 4-3 OT game in the playoffs?

There are so many questions and a lot of time between games.

[OpIv37]

Where do you get off basically inferring that if we don't find consistent and persistent problems with this team and continue to ***** about them that we are ignorant and blind to those problems or that we are in happy happy la la land? This is what YOU fail to realize. We see the problems, we understand the game, we are not idiots. However, unlike you we don't continue to dwell on the problems - problems all teams have if you comb through everything every player has to do - no team goes 82-0. Many of the rest of us are trying to enjoy the ride despite the team's shortfalls. You are so deadshot on getting a championship that you fail to just enjoy anything. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think this team is going to win the cup? No. Are we naive enough that we follow blindly and think it's an incredible success just to make the playoffs? No. The point you don't get is that we are trying to enjoy the team regardless the eventual outcome. Hence, it's counterproductive to constantly *****. You just can't get over that. You can't allow yourself to enjoy anything. You must constantly find fault. And deny as much as you want, having witnessed your rants here and on facebook I can honestly say that you are not a happy person unless you are *****ing. Your nit-picking is so counterproductive. You are worse than a type A personality. There is nothing but perfection that will make you happy. Nobody's life should ever affect an others like you allow things to affect you. And before you turn it to your misguided self defense about us ignoring your salient points and turning the argument back on you, just save it...examine how you perceive things, just not hockey, and really think about how YOU address things and let things get to you.

First, I don't find consistent and persistent problems. They are there and evident every single time we play, whether you choose to ignore them or not. This website is devoted to discussing the team, and it is there is no way to discuss them realistically without discussing the problems with the team.

Second, I really don't care that no team can go 82-0 or that other teams have problems. Every game, the goal is to win, and every season, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. I'm perfectly aware that we are not going to win every game and we are not going to win the Stanley cup the overwhelming majority of the time. But when we fail to win games or when we fail to win the Stanley Cup, it's because of the problems with the team, not because of what they do well. That's why the problems come up so often.

Third, this is especially telling:

The point you don't get is that we are trying to enjoy the team regardless the eventual outcome. Hence, it's counterproductive to constantly *****. You just can't get over that. You can't allow yourself to enjoy anything.

Your problem here is that forcing you to acknowledge the problems the team has makes it less enjoyable FOR YOU. But it's reality. Fans, by definition, want the team to win. Finding a way to enjoy the team when they're not winning is counter-intuitive. It's simply illogical. The team doesn't owe you enjoyment. When they win, it's enjoyable, when they lose, it's not, and unfortunately, the teams we like lose a lot more than they win. If it annoys you that my posts force you to acknowledge that reality, too bad. And if I'm not enjoying the games or the team, I'm not really sure why you care.

As far as me being a perfectionist or nit-picking or letting things in life bother me too much or what I post on Facebook, I'm not even going to bother addressing that. This forum is about hockey, not about my attitude or mentality. I keep trying to bring it back to a discussion about hockey, and you, hydro, and a couple more insist on making it about me. So, if you want to discuss hockey and how/why Vanek and Pominville keep missing breakaways, I'll be more than happy to continue this conversation. If you want to keep talking about my attitude and complaining that I complain too much, I'm done. I've said my piece on why I do it and clearly we don't agree, so this discussion is just going to go in circles.

[chernobylwraiths]

First, I don't find consistent and persistent problems. They are there and evident every single time we play, whether you choose to ignore them or not. This website is devoted to discussing the team, and it is there is no way to discuss them realistically without discussing the problems with the team.

Second, I really don't care that no team can go 82-0 or that other teams have problems. Every game, the goal is to win, and every season, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. I'm perfectly aware that we are not going to win every game and we are not going to win the Stanley cup the overwhelming majority of the time. But when we fail to win games or when we fail to win the Stanley Cup, it's because of the problems with the team, not because of what they do well. That's why the problems come up so often.

Third, this is especially telling:


Your problem here is that forcing you to acknowledge the problems the team has makes it less enjoyable FOR YOU. But it's reality. Fans, by definition, want the team to win. Finding a way to enjoy the team when they're not winning is counter-intuitive. It's simply illogical. The team doesn't owe you enjoyment. When they win, it's enjoyable, when they lose, it's not, and unfortunately, the teams we like lose a lot more than they win. If it annoys you that my posts force you to acknowledge that reality, too bad. And if I'm not enjoying the games or the team, I'm not really sure why you care.

As far as me being a perfectionist or nit-picking or letting things in life bother me too much or what I post on Facebook, I'm not even going to bother addressing that. This forum is about hockey, not about my attitude or mentality. I keep trying to bring it back to a discussion about hockey, and you, hydro, and a couple more insist on making it about me. So, if you want to discuss hockey and how/why Vanek and Pominville keep missing breakaways, I'll be more than happy to continue this conversation. If you want to keep talking about my attitude and complaining that I complain too much, I'm done. I've said my piece on why I do it and clearly we don't agree, so this discussion is just going to go in circles.

First, redundant. Also, you completely contradicted yourself.

Second, do you realize the irony of you starting and posting in a thread complaining about players not scoring in a game where 8 goals were scored as well as complaining about poor play in a game that they won?

[SabreEleven]

Can't we all just get along

[psubills62]

First, I don't find consistent and persistent problems. They are there and evident every single time we play, whether you choose to ignore them or not. This website is devoted to discussing the team, and it is there is no way to discuss them realistically without discussing the problems with the team.
Similarly, you can't discuss them realistically without pointing out the things they do well. So I guess no one on here actually discusses them realistically.

Every team has issues. It's called competitive sports for a reason.


Second, I really don't care that no team can go 82-0 or that other teams have problems. Every game, the goal is to win, and every season, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. I'm perfectly aware that we are not going to win every game and we are not going to win the Stanley cup the overwhelming majority of the time. But when we fail to win games or when we fail to win the Stanley Cup, it's because of the problems with the team, not because of what they do well. That's why the problems come up so often.
And similarly, when they win, it's because of what they do well.


Your problem here is that forcing you to acknowledge the problems the team has makes it less enjoyable FOR YOU. But it's reality. Fans, by definition, want the team to win. Finding a way to enjoy the team when they're not winning is counter-intuitive. It's simply illogical. The team doesn't owe you enjoyment. When they win, it's enjoyable, when they lose, it's not, and unfortunately, the teams we like lose a lot more than they win. If it annoys you that my posts force you to acknowledge that reality, too bad. And if I'm not enjoying the games or the team, I'm not really sure why you care.
You still don't get that most everyone on here is fine with acknowledging the problems. From what I've seen, nobody's saying that Vanek and Pominville are great at breakaways.

What you don't seem to get is that people have no problem admitting the problems. We just don't choose to dwell on them every game, especially ones where the team wins by 6 goals. "Acknowledging" is much different than "constantly focusing on."

I'm baffled that you aren't getting what people are telling you. You argue over and over that "the problems don't go away just because they won a game or two." That's true. However, similarly, the good things about the team don't disappear just because they have lost a game.

We know about the problems. Fortunately, we realize that we have no control over them. We also realize that there's very little the team itself can do to change them currently.



You see, the issue most people have is that it's impossible for the team to win you over. If they win, then all you do is complain about the little things they didn't do right, or the "constant issues" with the team. If they lose, then no matter what people say, the bottom line in your arguments is that they need to win, and thus failed. Either way people turn, it's negative, negative, negative. You never/rarely give them credit for winning, and obviously don't give them any credit when they lose. So what's the point in discussing things with you? It's not worth taking you seriously.

It's so funny to me how you sit around and say "if people can look for positives in a loss, why can't I look for negatives in a win?" You want to know why? Because you complain when people do the former, yet expect people not to get annoyed when you do the latter. It's like you have a patented right to be able to point out the negatives during a win, but then whenever people try to find positives in a loss, then it's an outrage that people could even think to try something so dumb when the point of the game is to win. It's a double standard with you, THAT is why people complain about the majority of your posts.

[G Wolly]

...complaining about players not scoring in a game where 8 goals were scored as well as complaining about poor play in a game that they won?


We didn't win.

We never win.

We never play well.

The other team just plays worse and loses.

/Op

[OpIv37]

Similarly, you can't discuss them realistically without pointing out the things they do well. So I guess no one on here actually discusses them realistically.

Every team has issues. It's called competitive sports for a reason.


And similarly, when they win, it's because of what they do well.


You still don't get that most everyone on here is fine with acknowledging the problems. From what I've seen, nobody's saying that Vanek and Pominville are great at breakaways.

What you don't seem to get is that people have no problem admitting the problems. We just don't choose to dwell on them every game, especially ones where the team wins by 6 goals. "Acknowledging" is much different than "constantly focusing on."

I'm baffled that you aren't getting what people are telling you. You argue over and over that "the problems don't go away just because they won a game or two." That's true. However, similarly, the good things about the team don't disappear just because they have lost a game.

We know about the problems. Fortunately, we realize that we have no control over them. We also realize that there's very little the team itself can do to change them currently.



You see, the issue most people have is that it's impossible for the team to win you over. If they win, then all you do is complain about the little things they didn't do right, or the "constant issues" with the team. If they lose, then no matter what people say, the bottom line in your arguments is that they need to win, and thus failed. Either way people turn, it's negative, negative, negative. You never/rarely give them credit for winning, and obviously don't give them any credit when they lose. So what's the point in discussing things with you? It's not worth taking you seriously.

It's so funny to me how you sit around and say "if people can look for positives in a loss, why can't I look for negatives in a win?" You want to know why? Because you complain when people do the former, yet expect people not to get annoyed when you do the latter. It's like you have a patented right to be able to point out the negatives during a win, but then whenever people try to find positives in a loss, then it's an outrage that people could even think to try something so dumb when the point of the game is to win. It's a double standard with you, THAT is why people complain about the majority of your posts.

I'm done discussing my attitude, but I do have to point out one thing: W hy is it a double standard for me to get mad when people point out the positives in a loss while I point out the negatives in a win, but not a double standard for them doing the opposite? The problems that emerge- even in wins- are what will keep this team from winning the Cup and maybe from making the playoffs, so they are pertinent and relevant regardless of whether people are sick of hearing about them.

[OpIv37]

First, redundant. Also, you completely contradicted yourself.

Second, do you realize the irony of you starting and posting in a thread complaining about players not scoring in a game where 8 goals were scored as well as complaining about poor play in a game that they won?

Microcosm.

Yes, we won the game where I was complaining, but Vanek and Pominville have been missing breakaways ALL YEAR, probably even longer than that. Maybe the Carolina game would have been a better time to ***** about it, but what you people fail to realize is that it's a problem regardless of how and when I ***** about it.

This board is about the team, not about me, but everyone is so intent on commenting on when I choose to ***** about it that they lose sight of the actual discussion of the team.

I pointed out a problem after a win? So what? it's still a problem, and it's one that has bitten us in the past and could very easily come back to bite us again. Do you want to talk about it or not?

[psubills62]

I'm done discussing my attitude, but I do have to point out one thing: W hy is it a double standard for me to get mad when people point out the positives in a loss while I point out the negatives in a win, but not a double standard for them doing the opposite? The problems that emerge- even in wins- are what will keep this team from winning the Cup and maybe from making the playoffs, so they are pertinent and relevant regardless of whether people are sick of hearing about them.
Consistency would be one reason. From what I've seen, your complaining is much more common than people finding positives in a win. And last I checked, most people are more than willing to complain in certain losses (like Nashville). On the flip side, I don't remember ever seeing you celebrate a win.

Being a realist means being able to see both sides clearly, not just one. And yes, the problems are pertinent and relevant. But the positives are just as, if not more relevant at this point. Because those are the reasons why they're even in the hunt for the playoffs at this point.

[G Wolly]

This board is about the team, not about me, but everyone is so intent on commenting on when I choose to ***** about it that they lose sight of the actual discussion of the team.

I pointed out a problem after a win? So what? it's still a problem, and it's one that has bitten us in the past and could very easily come back to bite us again. Do you want to talk about it or not?

Maybe it's time to question your "fanhood" if you can't just enjoy an 8 to 2 win.

Sure, it's a problem. It's a minimal problem, especially when scoring 8 goals in one game. There's a time to talk about it. And after winning a game by scoring 8 goals and allowing 2, isn't the time.

This board IS about the team, obviously. The problem is just that YOU need to find something wrong with EVERY game.

There's a difference between being a fan and a critic, as we've said, and you've established your stance as the latter. I understand you want the team to be better, play 110% every game and be as close to perfect as possible. But just because some of us say "it happens" or understands that shouldn't be expected, especially from a Buffalo team, doesn't mean we don't care as much as you claim you do.

I bet if you won the Mega Millions lotto jackpot, you'd let the fact of being taxed for your winnings take away from the enjoyment of winning.

[hydro]

I'm done discussing my attitude, but I do have to point out one thing: W hy is it a double standard for me to get mad when people point out the positives in a loss while I point out the negatives in a win, but not a double standard for them doing the opposite? The problems that emerge- even in wins- are what will keep this team from winning the Cup and maybe from making the playoffs, so they are pertinent and relevant regardless of whether people are sick of hearing about them.

They are relevant but not relevant enough for you to defend them to the degree you do. You have such a deep rooted stance on things and just won't budge that it rubs everyone the wrong way. You will be hard pressed to find another poster on this board that doesn't change their mind during a conversation. Even someone like Nighthawk who can get worked up about his opinion will level with people when they bring up good points.

You would have a lot less detractors on this message board if you would just be a little more sympathetic to other's opinions. Then maybe not every one of your threads would result in your attitude being trashed. This situation can be fixed.

[OpIv37]

Consistency would be one reason. From what I've seen, your complaining is much more common than people finding positives in a win. And last I checked, most people are more than willing to complain in certain losses (like Nashville). On the flip side, I don't remember ever seeing you celebrate a win.

Being a realist means being able to see both sides clearly, not just one. And yes, the problems are pertinent and relevant. But the positives are just as, if not more relevant at this point. Because those are the reasons why they're even in the hunt for the playoffs at this point.

disagree. The negatives are far more relevant because a) if it wasn't for the negatives we'd be in solid playoff position instead of fighting for our playoff lives, and b) the negatives are still causing us to lose, and lose in horrific fashion like 1-0 at home to Carolina or blowing a two goal lead to Nashville.

[OpIv37]

They are relevant but not relevant enough for you to defend them to the degree you do. You have such a deep rooted stance on things and just won't budge that it rubs everyone the wrong way. You will be hard pressed to find another poster on this board that doesn't change their mind during a conversation. Even someone like Nighthawk who can get worked up about his opinion will level with people when they bring up good points.

You would have a lot less detractors on this message board if you would just be a little more sympathetic to other's opinions. Then maybe not every one of your threads would result in your attitude being trashed. This situation can be fixed.

The only reason that I care about my attitude getting trashed is because it distracts from the discussion of hockey. Sure, from time to time I'll get pissed about a bad loss and overreact, but the majority of points I make on here are very good ones, even if they are negative- yet people get so worked up about my attitude or how/when I choose to make those points that the points get lost.

[OpIv37]

Maybe it's time to question your "fanhood" if you can't just enjoy an 8 to 2 win.

Sure, it's a problem. It's a minimal problem, especially when scoring 8 goals in one game. There's a time to talk about it. And after winning a game by scoring 8 goals and allowing 2, isn't the time.

This board IS about the team, obviously. The problem is just that YOU need to find something wrong with EVERY game.

There's a difference between being a fan and a critic, as we've said, and you've established your stance as the latter. I understand you want the team to be better, play 110% every game and be as close to perfect as possible. But just because some of us say "it happens" or understands that shouldn't be expected, especially from a Buffalo team, doesn't mean we don't care as much as you claim you do.

I bet if you won the Mega Millions lotto jackpot, you'd let the fact of being taxed for your winnings take away from the enjoyment of winning.

There is a difference between being a fan and a critic, but there is nothing that makes them mutually exclusive. One person can be both.

[OpIv37]

****, somehow I'm still discussing my attitude.

I refuse to respond to any more posts that don't directly address Vanek and Pominville's lack of prowess on breakaways.

[psubills62]

disagree. The negatives are far more relevant because a) if it wasn't for the negatives we'd be in solid playoff position instead of fighting for our playoff lives, and b) the negatives are still causing us to lose, and lose in horrific fashion like 1-0 at home to Carolina or blowing a two goal lead to Nashville.
Those are valid points, but they're not even close to "far more relevant" points than the ones I presented. It's easy to just counter by saying: a) the positives are the only reason we're in playoff position, b) the positives have still caused us to win recently, and win against some good teams, like the Rangers, Bruins, and Flyers. Two of those teams are playoff matchup possibilities.

[hydro]

The only reason that I care about my attitude getting trashed is because it distracts from the discussion of hockey. Sure, from time to time I'll get pissed about a bad loss and overreact, but the majority of points I make on here are very good ones, even if they are negative- yet people get so worked up about my attitude or how/when I choose to make those points that the points get lost.

So you are asking us to change the way we react so you don't have to? There has to be some given and take from everyone here. You want your threads to be productive, you have to try harder at not going to the Nth degree to be right and making sure everyone agrees with your opinion. You are the only poster on this message board that constantly has their attitude attacked. You think that might be for a reason?

[hydro]

****, somehow I'm still discussing my attitude.

I refuse to respond to any more posts that don't directly address Vanek and Pominville's lack of prowess on breakaways.

Might as well just close up this thread then.

[Ebenezer]

Third, this is especially telling:


Your problem here is that forcing you to acknowledge the problems the team has makes it less enjoyable FOR YOU. But it's reality. Fans, by definition, want the team to win. Finding a way to enjoy the team when they're not winning is counter-intuitive. It's simply illogical. The team doesn't owe you enjoyment. When they win, it's enjoyable, when they lose, it's not, and unfortunately, the teams we like lose a lot more than they win. If it annoys you that my posts force you to acknowledge that reality, too bad. And if I'm not enjoying the games or the team, I'm not really sure why you care.

This paragraph tells me that you really have no clue what sports and entertainment really is all about. It's also pretty damn insulting. You have no right to infer that I am idiot who doesn't understand sports and follows blindly. Your problem is worse than I thought.

[chernobylwraiths]

****, somehow I'm still discussing my attitude.

I refuse to respond to any more posts that don't directly address Vanek and Pominville's lack of prowess on breakaways.


I wonder if there are stats anywhere for goals on breakaways. Aside from shootouts that is. When you get a breakaway, though you are in the clear, you still have to go as fast as you can and make sure nobody catches you from behind. That gives an even heavier advantage to the goalie because there isn't enough time to do a lot. In recent years, I would think that goalies save between 80 and 90% of breakaways.

I did. Sort of.

[hydro]

I did. Sort of.
Yeah hard to talk about something that is being sensationalized. We are going by memory and not stats. To Opiv it seems like they do this a lot. I don't believe it is bad as we assume. I do think Pominville shoots at the net a lot (not always a recorded shot on goal) and gets very little results. Don't know that it is breakaways that are the biggest issue.

[chernobylwraiths]

I also find it funny that he is upset we are jumping on him about complaining when the title of the thread says that he knows this is going to happen.

Is it not illogical to want something to not happen when you "know" that it will?

[Ebenezer]

Yeah hard to talk about something that is being sensationalized. We are going by memory and not stats. To Opiv it seems like they do this a lot. I don't believe it is bad as we assume. I do think Pominville shoots at the net a lot (not always a recorded shot on goal) and gets very little results. Don't know that it is breakaways that are the biggest issue.
Actually, I don't remember Pominville having many breakaways, period. I don't think it happens all that often...or not as often as some would think.

[chernobylwraiths]

Actually, I don't remember Pominville having many breakaways, period. I don't think it happens all that often...or not as often as some would think.

Well, I hope he isn't talking about shootouts too. Because Pomminville is terrible on shootouts, often missing the net. But Vanek, while he was bad the last couple years, is very good this year.

[Ebenezer]

Well, I hope he isn't talking about shootouts too. Because Pomminville is terrible on shootouts, often missing the net. But Vanek, while he was bad the last couple years, is very good this year.
Shoot-outs are artificial and should be removed from the game...but that's a different thread.

[Ebenezer]

Well, I hope he isn't talking about shootouts too. Because Pomminville is terrible on shootouts, often missing the net. But Vanek, while he was bad the last couple years, is very good this year.
It doesn't matter...it's all he could find to ***** about in an 8-2 win.

[chernobylwraiths]

It doesn't matter...it's all he could find to ***** about in an 8-2 win.

Nope, somebody already brought up the fact that both goals Miller let in were soft.

[Ebenezer]

Nope, somebody already brought up the fact that both goals Miller let in were soft.
Miller could give up two soft goals every game...the remedy is to score more than the opponent and win but too many fans would rather see hits, scrums and fights so the players can prove that they are "gritty".

[OpIv37]

Vanek is definitely good at shootouts, no doubt about that- but that just makes it all the more perplexing when he misses so many breakaways.

Between these two, they missed about 4 in two games, if I remember correctly.

If you don't think it's a problem, go back and look at the game highlights on Sabres.com. Check the Save highlights for the other team's goalies to see how many were stops on Pominville and Vanek on breakaways (and this doesn't even count the ones where Pominville just misses the net), vs how many of Pominville's and Vanek's goals were scored on plays that weren't breakaways.

Believe me, this is a real problem. Obviously, it didn't matter in the 8-2 win, but it sure as hell mattered in the 1-0 loss. And it will matter in the playoffs because scoring goes down, and the teams that win will be the ones that capitalize on these opportunities because there won't be many of them.

[Ebenezer]

Vanek is definitely good at shootouts, no doubt about that- but that just makes it all the more perplexing when he misses so many breakaways.

Between these two, they missed about 4 in two games, if I remember correctly.

If you don't think it's a problem, go back and look at the game highlights on Sabres.com. Check the Save highlights for the other team's goalies to see how many were stops on Pominville and Vanek on breakaways (and this doesn't even count the ones where Pominville just misses the net), vs how many of Pominville's and Vanek's goals were scored on plays that weren't breakaways.

Believe me, this is a real problem. Obviously, it didn't matter in the 8-2 win, but it sure as hell mattered in the 1-0 loss. And it will matter in the playoffs because scoring goes down, and the teams that win will be the ones that capitalize on these opportunities because there won't be many of them.
You need to get stats on numbers of breakaways, numbers of clean shots and percentage. Then you need to compare those Sabre stats to the rest of the league...until you do it's just conjecture and "I thinks".

[trapezeus]

Vanek is definitely good at shootouts, no doubt about that- but that just makes it all the more perplexing when he misses so many breakaways.



It's not really perplexing. being chased on a breakaway changes about what you want to do. a lot of times a player is just looking to get a shot off if he's feeling the heat coming.

on a penaltyshot/shootout, not one is coming for you, you've taken a second to think about this particular goalie's tendencies on breakaways and formulate your plan right before you take off.

I'd argue they are entirely different beasts.

[Ebenezer]

It's not really perplexing. being chased on a breakaway changes about what you want to do. a lot of times a player is just looking to get a shot off if he's feeling the heat coming.

on a penaltyshot/shootout, not one is coming for you, you've taken a second to think about this particular goalie's tendencies on breakaways and formulate your plan right before you take off.

I'd argue they are entirely different beasts.
Vanek had a breakaway against Boston last year. They chopped him down like a tree and he missed three games. You don't have that worry in the back of your mind on a penalty shot.

[G Wolly]

Believe me, this is a real problem. Obviously, it didn't matter in the 8-2 win, but it sure as hell mattered in the 1-0 loss. And it will matter in the playoffs because scoring goes down, and the teams that win will be the ones that capitalize on these opportunities because there won't be many of them.

I don't think it's as big as a problem as you want it to be.

Obviously if he hits that breakaway shot, we don't get shutout. But we still could have lost the game anyways.

There's plenty of other plays that decided that game, that breakaway alone may not have made a total 180 degree turnaround.

Although I understand your point, understand my point.

[OpIv37]

You need to get stats on numbers of breakaways, numbers of clean shots and percentage. Then you need to compare those Sabre stats to the rest of the league...until you do it's just conjecture and "I thinks".

because obviously, witnessing it with my own eyes night in and night out isn't enough. I need to do 20 hours of web research to satisfy Eb, at which point he'll just criticize my criteria for determining "breakaways" and "clean shots" and dismiss the whole thing anyway.

The video evidence is there. You can choose to watch it, or you can choose to falsely assume that it's just me *****ing about nothing again. It doesn't matter to me.

[Ebenezer]

because obviously, witnessing it with my own eyes night in and night out isn't enough. I need to do 20 hours of web research to satisfy Eb, at which point he'll just criticize my criteria for determining "breakaways" and "clean shots" and dismiss the whole thing anyway.

The video evidence is there. You can choose to watch it, or you can choose to falsely assume that it's just me *****ing about nothing again. It doesn't matter to me.
Translation:

I have no evidence to back up my assertion.

[OpIv37]

Translation:

I have no evidence to back up my assertion.

The video evidence is there. I told you where it was.

Take it or leave it.

[G Wolly]

The video evidence is there. I told you where it was.

Take it or leave it.

The only factual evidence is whether or not they converted breakaways into goals.

Whether or not this is as big a problem you're making it out to be, is merely your own opinion.

[OpIv37]

The only factual evidence is whether or not they converted breakaways into goals.

Whether or not this is as big a problem you're making it out to be, is merely your own opinion.
Keep thinking that way. Just don't be shocked when we lose games 2-0 after they miss four breakaways between the two of them.

And I could almost understand defending Vanek, but Pominville? The guy can barely put the puck on net under any circumstances, let alone breakaways.

[G Wolly]

Keep thinking that way. Just don't be shocked when we lose games 2-0 after they miss four breakaways between the two of them.

What way? Rationally?

2 guys don't make up an entire team. I understand your point, again.

Just in case you didn't understand that, I get your point.

It shouldn't have to come down to Vanek and/or Pominville's breakaway attempts to decide the fate of our team. At least ***** about our porous defense or lack of physicality or lack of scoring from the rest of team, instead of picking apart a small fraction of the game that doesn't happen too often.

I'm not "defending" Vanek or Pominville, I'm trying again to be rational with you and tell you that it's not as dire of a situation you're claiming it to be.

But I guess that makes me less of a fan right?

[Ebenezer]

Keep thinking that way. Just don't be shocked when we lose games 2-0 after they miss four breakaways between the two of them.

And I could almost understand defending Vanek, but Pominville? The guy can barely put the puck on net under any circumstances, let alone breakaways.

Please find me more than one game where both Vanek and Pominville had 2 breakaways in the same game this year. You are making the assertion you provide the proof. I don't do the work for others to prove their point.

[chernobylwraiths]

Keep thinking that way. Just don't be shocked when we lose games 2-0 after they miss four breakaways between the two of them.

And I could almost understand defending Vanek, but Pominville? The guy can barely put the puck on net under any circumstances, let alone breakaways.

If the Sabres average one breakaway per game, I would think that was a lot. They don't play a speed game.

[Mski]

If the Sabres average one breakaway per game, I would think that was a lot. They don't play a speed game. it seems asthough Grier seems to get one every game, but usually gets caught from behind before he can shoot:idunno:

[Ebenezer]

it seems asthough Grier seems to get one every game, but usually gets caught from behind before he can shoot:idunno:
That happens when you're 72.

[G Wolly]

That happens when you're 72.

Getting caught from behind before you shoot also happens in another instance...













...homosexuality