Why both Gabbert and Newton will be on the board at #4 [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Don't Panic

04-23-2011, 07:48 AM

Took me a little while to get to this conclusion, but I don't see a QB going top 3 in this draft. If either of these guys gave me the impression that they were can't miss then I could see it, but after three months neither has proven to me that this is the case. I definitely don't see Gabbert going top 3 and I think that Carolina and Buffalo will see more value elsewhere and both pass on Cam.

Here's how I see it playing out:

1. Carolina - Dareus. I think Rivera will build from the lines out, figuring that he can give Claussen and Pike a year to see if they're worth anything before worrying about the QB position.

2. Denver - Peterson. To be honest, I'd like to say A.J. Green here since I think he is the best player in the draft, but Peterson is a close second and seems to have the impression by many of being #1. Could go either way.

3. Buffalo - Miller. I honestly don't think this is the way to go, especially with a bunch of paid bodies already playing OLB (even if they are mediocre), but I'm not sure who else warrants the pick besides a QB, and I don't think OBD wants one of those guys this high.... maybe at #10, but not at #3.

So that would leave Cincy with their choice between the two, should they want one. I honestly could conceivably see them passing on both QBs and going with whoever Denver passed on, but in the end I think they take Palmer seriously on his threat and draft his replacement.

I've been open to anything up until now, but at this point I'm pretty confident this is the way things will shake out. We'll see in 5 days...

elltrain22

04-23-2011, 08:47 AM

That could very easily happen. If it does, we have a prime opportunity to take alot of trade calls.

ddaryl

04-23-2011, 08:50 AM

the Bills will take Newton if he is there at #3....

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 09:30 AM

the Bills will take Newton if he is there at #3....
I think your right. I also think Denver is going to pick Von Miller at 2. Carolina takes Dareus number 1. Peterson wont be picked until somewhere between 6 and 9th overall.

Figster

04-23-2011, 09:41 AM

the Bills will take Newton if he is there at #3....

I agree, no way we pass up Cam Newton,

Blaine Gabbert is also very possible If Newton is gone in my opinion. Gabbert just looks natural at the QB position, very athletic and highly intelligent, the full package.

I like them both...:gosabres:GO SABRES!!!!

Novacane

04-23-2011, 09:46 AM

Novacane

04-23-2011, 09:51 AM

I agree, no way we pass up Cam Newton,

Blaine Gabbert is also very possible If Newton is gone in my opinion. Gabbert just looks natural at the QB position, very athletic and highly intelligent, the full package.
![/B][/I]

Which is why if they are hell bent on taking a QB they should take Gabbert even if Newton is there. Newton does not fit the description you just gave of Gabbert.

Figster

04-23-2011, 09:55 AM

Figster

04-23-2011, 09:59 AM

Which is why if they are hell bent on taking a QB they should take Gabbert even if Newton is there. Newton does not fit the description you just gave of Gabbert.

I've really warmed up to Blaine Gabbert and would be very content If we drafted him.

I think Gabbert and Newton are both franchise material.

Novacane

04-23-2011, 10:00 AM

Buddy Nix has a handle/inside track on Cam Newton, probably better then any GM in the league.

No way he passes up Newton...

SABRES GAME :5:WINNING!!! :limpclap:

We probably won't know if all the Carolina rumors are true but I'll bet you something the Bills don't take him if he is there. What should we bet?

Novacane

04-23-2011, 10:04 AM

I've really warmed up to Blaine Gabbert and would be very content If we drafted him.

I think Gabbert and Newton are both franchise material.

I don't want them to draft a QB. I think there are bigger needs. If they do take one I hope it's Gabbert. I'm not sold on him but would give Nix the benefit of the doubt if he is sold on him enough to take him. I'm rock solid sold that Cam is going to be a bust. Talent alone does not make one a franchise QB. That interview with Gruden was the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. I will be depressed if they draft him.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 10:04 AM

We probably won't know if all the Carolina rumors are true but I'll bet you something the Bills don't take him if he is there. What should we bet?
If Dareus and Miler go 1, and 2, I'll put up 16k in zonebucks that the Bills take Newton at 3.

Novacane

04-23-2011, 10:06 AM

If Dareus and Miler go 1, and 2, I'll put up 16k in zonebucks that the Bills take Newton at 3.

Deal

Novacane

04-23-2011, 10:08 AM

If Dareus and Miler go 1, and 2, I'll put up 16k in zonebucks that the Bills take Newton at 3.

Wait. I did not read that before I said deal. What if Dareus and Peterson go 1 and 2? Or Dareus and a surprised pick? I'll bet that the Bills pass on Newton if he's there no matter who was taken 1 &2. Sound good?

Figster

04-23-2011, 10:08 AM

We probably won't know if all the Carolina rumors are true but I'll bet you something the Bills don't take him if he is there. What should we bet?

I've already bet all my zonebucks that Buffalo drafts a QB in the 1st, If it wasn't for that I would go all in with you.

Commissioner

04-23-2011, 10:14 AM

The Bills will pass on Newton and take Gabbert.

Cam Newton is too high risk. The Bills have to hit at #3.

Take it to the bank...

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 10:18 AM

Wait. I did not read that before I said deal. What if Dareus and Peterson go 1 and 2? Or Dareus and a surprised pick? I'll bet that the Bills pass on Newton if he's there no matter who was taken 1 &2. Sound good?
If its Dareus and Peterson, the Bills wont be taking Newton. Miller is going to be too hard to pass up with the prospect of possibly landing Ponder in the 2nd at 34 for them to gamble on Newton. However, if Miller is gone, they will roll with Newton. I don't normally make bets, but I'm pretty confident in this scenario. JMO

Figster

04-23-2011, 10:21 AM

I don't want them to draft a QB. I think there are bigger needs. If they do take one I hope it's Gabbert. I'm not sold on him but would give Nix the benefit of the doubt if he is sold on him enough to take him. I'm rock solid sold that Cam is going to be a bust. Talent alone does not make one a franchise QB. That interview with Gruden was the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. I will be depressed if they draft him.

All College QB prospects face a learning curve. The difference between Newton and other top QB prospects is Cams rushing capabilities will allow him to contribute and make a big impact as a rookie. Impact on the football field and an impact in ticket sales. Russ Brandon is all over this and he has a lot of pull with RW, you can pretty much bet Brandon wants him some of that Icon/$$$$$$

Newton puts Buffalo back on the map/prime time, and with Fitz and Gailey as Cams tutor/mentor, its the perfect situation for all concerned in my opinion.

Creates the Perfect storm for opponents to face...

Novacane

04-23-2011, 10:28 AM

If its Dareus and Peterson, the Bills wont be taking Newton. Miller is going to be too hard to pass up with the prospect of possibly landing Ponder in the 2nd at 34 for them to gamble on Newton. However, if he is gone, they will roll with Newton. I don't normally make bets, but I'm pretty confident in this scenario. JMO

Ok. How about this. I will bet they don't take Newton if he's there even if Miller is off the board? I agree with commissioners post. I think they'd take Gabbert before Newton.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 10:41 AM

Ok. How about this. I will bet they don't take Newton if he's there even if Miller is off the board? I agree with commissioners post. I think they'd take Gabbert before Newton.
The only way the Bills pass on Newton is if Dareus or Miller slip to 3. I like Gabbert, and think he will probably be a better QB in the short term. But Newton's ceiling is too high for them to take Gabbert over him. So if the bet is that saying "both Dareus, and Miller are picks 1 and 2", it's between Gabbert and Newton, I'm in. Newton will go before Gabbert at 3 in this scenario.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 10:52 AM

The Bills will pass on Newton and take Gabbert.

Cam Newton is too high risk. The Bills have to hit at #3.

Take it to the bank...
Your absolutely right about Cam Newton's risk being really high, but so is the reward with the proper coaching, and training at the NFL level. His raw ability is a once in a decade type find. That is why he is so highly coveted. It's also why opinions on him are so widely varied. Not having much to go on with him makes people question his ability. He could turn into a big bust, but at the same time could turn out to be one of the great QB's in the game. It's all a matter of how much teams will favor one side to the other in the balance between risk vs reward, and how confident they are in their system of coaching. JMO

Figster

04-23-2011, 10:55 AM

ublinkwescore

04-23-2011, 11:41 AM

Figster

04-23-2011, 11:51 AM

No one questions Newton's ability... and we do have the right coaching staff in place to take that gamble, but I'm still not sold on the guy because of the red flags... ability will only get you so far at the QB spot - you have to have some intelligence to really succeed at the position.

How do you explain Jim Kelly and Dan Marino's low wonderlic scores?

Using intelligence with pressure coming at you from all directions is what makes a good QB. The better the athlete, the less the athlete has to think about being elusive (comes natural) the more they can concentrate on putting the ball where it needs to go.

At 6' 6", 250 lbs, with star RB speed/skill set, and a cannon for an arm, Cam Newton is hell on wheels for opposing defenses...

Commissioner

04-23-2011, 11:55 AM

Your absolutely right about Cam Newton's risk being really high, but so is the reward with the proper coaching, and training at the NFL level. His raw ability is a once in a decade type find. That is why he is so highly coveted. It's also why opinions on him are so widely varied. Not having much to go on with him makes people question his ability. He could turn into a big bust, but at the same time could turn out to be one of the great QB's in the game. It's all a matter of how much teams will favor one side to the other in the balance between risk vs reward, and how confident they are in their system of coaching. JMO

I guess it all depends on whether or not the Bills think he can reach that potential. There have been a lot of good athletes with a lot of potential... but besides good coaching and training... a lot of it has to do with the athletes determination and work ethic to reach that potential. The sky is the limit for Newton... but I'm not sure I would gamble on him actually being able to reach that potential.

I really didn't like how he appeared on Gruden's tv show when trying to diagram a couple of plays. He sounded so extremely raw to me as he stood there and describe looking off safeties... as if that was some tricky new thing he had to learn.

I just don't know about him.

ddaryl

04-23-2011, 11:59 AM

I hope Cam is there so you guys can see how wrong you are about Newton. He is so overrated in the media. I think there are a lot of NFL people who don't see it the same way. Charley Casserly was on NFL network last night. He thinks if Carolina does not take
Newton there is a good chance he will drop out of the top 10. He was specifically asked won't Buffalo take him. He said he does not think they will.

After seeing the video from the Bills scouts they had plenty of good things to say and hyped him up some without obvioulsy hyping him up... if you know what I mean by that..

My faith is Gailey can design and offense that allows Newton to come along at a good pace, and Fitz is a high quality guy that will be a solid mentor...

The add in the FACT that this is a QB driven league and you take one when you can get one mentality I seriously believe the Bills would jump on Newton.

Now I have my concerns about Newton, but given the info that has become available the last few weeks I believe the Bills would take Newton, and they would pass on Gabbert... that's the opinion I have formed.

Novacane

04-23-2011, 11:59 AM

Your absolutely right about Cam Newton's risk being really high, but so is the reward with the proper coaching, and training at the NFL level. His raw ability is a once in a decade type find. That is why he is so highly coveted. It's also why opinions on him are so widely varied. Not having much to go on with him makes people question his ability. He could turn into a big bust, but at the same time could turn out to be one of the great QB's in the game. It's all a matter of how much teams will favor one side to the other in the balance between risk vs reward, and how confident they are in their system of coaching. JMO

First off how do we know he's highly coveted by NFL teams? Because the media says so? I know Gailey has said some nice things about him but anything I hear out of NFL teams leading up to the draft I take with a grain of salt. That is why I'd like to see him be there when the Bills draft. We would find out if Gailey was just blowing smoke which I believe he was. My opinion is the Bills are making it sound like they like him, hoping some team who loves him will trade up with them.

Now, as for Newton. I know he has great raw ability. That does no good if he does not have it between the ears. No amount of good coaching and training can make a guy have "it". Newton does not have "it" IMO. I think he will be a great weapon on 3rd and shorts and out of the wildcat but that's not worth the #3 pick in the draft. I don't see him ever being able to read NFL defenses and be a successful full time QB. JMO. If he does end up here hopefully I'm dead wrong.

As for the bet............yes, I will bet the Bills do not take Newton even if Dareus and Miller are off the board.

Commissioner

04-23-2011, 12:19 PM

First off how do we know he's highly coveted by NFL teams? Because the media says so? I know Gailey has said some nice things about him but anything I hear out of NFL teams leading up to the draft I take with a grain of salt. That is why I'd like to see him be there when the Bills draft. We would find out if Gailey was just blowing smoke which I believe he was. My opinion is the Bills are making it sound like they like him, hoping some team who loves him will trade up with them.

Now, as for Newton. I know he has great raw ability. That does no good if he does not have it between the ears. No amount of good coaching and training can make a guy have "it". Newton does not have "it" IMO. I think he will be a great weapon on 3rd and shorts and out of the wildcat but that's not worth the #3 pick in the draft. I don't see him ever being able to read NFL defenses and be a successful full time QB. JMO. If he does end up here hopefully I'm dead wrong.

As for the bet............yes, I will bet the Bills do not take Newton even if Dareus and Miller are off the board.
and remember ... Gailey did refer to Newton as a wild cat QB.

I doubt the Bills would use the #3 pick on a QB they think of like that.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 12:19 PM

I guess it all depends on whether or not the Bills think he can reach that potential. There have been a lot of good athletes with a lot of potential... but besides good coaching and training... a lot of it has to do with the athletes determination and work ethic to reach that potential. The sky is the limit for Newton... but I'm not sure I would gamble on him actually being able to reach that potential.

I really didn't like how he appeared on Gruden's tv show when trying to diagram a couple of plays. He sounded so extremely raw to me as he stood there and describe looking off safeties... as if that was some tricky new thing he had to learn.

I just don't know about him.
As a matter of personal opinion, I wouldn't want the Bills drafting him. I think this team could go a lot further with drafting nothing but defense from 3 to 122. But I know that they see it a lot differently than I do as they did last year.

Figster

04-23-2011, 12:23 PM

I guess it all depends on whether or not the Bills think he can reach that potential. There have been a lot of good athletes with a lot of potential... but besides good coaching and training... a lot of it has to do with the athletes determination and work ethic to reach that potential. The sky is the limit for Newton... but I'm not sure I would gamble on him actually being able to reach that potential.

I really didn't like how he appeared on Gruden's tv show when trying to diagram a couple of plays. He sounded so extremely raw to me as he stood there and describe looking off safeties... as if that was some tricky new thing he had to learn.

I just don't know about him.
Sounded to me like a man who doesn't take anything for granted and places a great importance in executing plays properly.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 01:15 PM

Sounded to me like a man who doesn't take anything for granted and places a great importance in executing plays properly.
In reference to the Gruden interview, I think Newton was trying too hard to be cautious and it looked obvious at least to me. He knows how the media and the rest of us hang on every word, looking for a slip up to throw back in his face. That is what the new world of Twitter, and sports blogs bring to the table. It's just like the whole entertainer/icon bit that happened with SI's Peter King who took Newton's comments out of context to turn it into something controversial. Everyone in the media knows a Newton gem would be a hot topic that fires up a blogs popularity, sells magazines, and newspapers. That's why I don't take much stock in them when it comes to evaluating a players personal character.

mrbojanglezs

04-23-2011, 01:53 PM

could be I agree, the bills could be deciding between newton and miller, that could be a very hard decision for them

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 02:17 PM

First off how do we know he's highly coveted by NFL teams? Because the media says so? I know Gailey has said some nice things about him but anything I hear out of NFL teams leading up to the draft I take with a grain of salt. That is why I'd like to see him be there when the Bills draft. We would find out if Gailey was just blowing smoke which I believe he was. My opinion is the Bills are making it sound like they like him, hoping some team who loves him will trade up with them.

Now, as for Newton. I know he has great raw ability. That does no good if he does not have it between the ears. No amount of good coaching and training can make a guy have "it". Newton does not have "it" IMO. I think he will be a great weapon on 3rd and shorts and out of the wildcat but that's not worth the #3 pick in the draft. I don't see him ever being able to read NFL defenses and be a successful full time QB. JMO. If he does end up here hopefully I'm dead wrong.

As for the bet............yes, I will bet the Bills do not take Newton even if Dareus and Miller are off the board.
All you have to do is go back and revisit how many teams were present at his pro day. It's not hard to figure out. Also, judging by Shawn Heinlen's comments who was responsible for scouting Newton for the Bills.

YardRat

04-23-2011, 02:22 PM

How do you explain Jim Kelly and Dan Marino's low wonderlic scores?

Both were at least football smart, which is something I'm betting Newton isn't.

We don't need a rocket science, but we do want somebody with a brain for the game.

Extremebillsfan247

04-23-2011, 02:38 PM

Both were at least football smart, which is something I'm betting Newton isn't.

We don't need a rocket science, but we do want somebody with a brain for the game.
As a QB, you don't win a national championship, heisman trophy, and SEC player of the year with out knowing how to play QB. Newton did all that in one try. How many other QBs do you know who have done that?

Commissioner

04-23-2011, 03:14 PM

As a QB, you don't win a national championship, heisman trophy, and SEC player of the year with out knowing how to play QB. Newton did all that in one try. How many other QBs do you know who have done that?

He's not going to be able to run all over everyone in the NFL though. Smarter, faster, and bigger defenses will contain him. Until he learns to make teams pay in the air... he isn't going to run anywhere.

YardRat

04-23-2011, 04:31 PM

As a QB, you don't win a national championship, heisman trophy, and SEC player of the year with out knowing how to play QB. Newton did all that in one try. How many other QBs do you know who have done that?

Danny Wuerfell, 1996.

The prosecution rests, Your Honor.

Take a peek at all of the 'franchise' quarterbacks that have won the SEC player of the year, Heisman Trophy, and/or National Championships.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/sec-poy.html
http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/heisman/heisman_trophy_winners.htm
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/champions_national.html

Not very impressive credentials to have on a resume, IMO.

Don't Panic

04-23-2011, 07:13 PM

So as I was saying... Gabbert and Newton will be on the board at #4! Thanks to those who agree and we'll see to those who don't.

Philagape

04-23-2011, 07:52 PM

As a QB, you don't win a national championship, heisman trophy, and SEC player of the year with out knowing how to play QB. Newton did all that in one try. How many other QBs do you know who have done that?

Other QBs to win the Heisman and national championship in the same season are Matt Leinart, Danny Wuerffel and Charlie Ward. And that's just in the past 20 years. (I don't know if they won conference awards, but if they won the Heisman, who cares?)

THE END OF ALL DAYS

04-23-2011, 08:26 PM

this is all academic..... newton will be gone pick 1
bills will not even have a chance to draft him

GO GABBERT and BE HAPPY

psubills62

04-23-2011, 10:31 PM

Extremebillsfan247

04-24-2011, 01:09 AM

He's not going to be able to run all over everyone in the NFL though. Smarter, faster, and bigger defenses will contain him. Until he learns to make teams pay in the air... he isn't going to run anywhere.he passed for over 2800 yards and 30 tds. That's better than Ponder in '09 when he was healthy and almost double the tds that Gabbert had, and threw less interceptions. Are you you trying to say he is a run first QB? whats that say for Gabbert and Ponder then? just saying. lol

Extremebillsfan247

04-24-2011, 01:12 AM

Danny Wuerfell, 1996.

The prosecution rests, Your Honor.

Take a peek at all of the 'franchise' quarterbacks that have won the SEC player of the year, Heisman Trophy, and/or National Championships.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/sec-poy.html
http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/heisman/heisman_trophy_winners.htm
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/champions_national.html

Not very impressive credentials to have on a resume, IMO. All in their first year? lol Wuerfell won nothing in his first year at Florida which was 93. Cam Newton did everything in his first year at Auburn, your point fails.

YardRat

04-24-2011, 06:47 AM

All in their first year? lol Wuerfell won nothing in his first year at Florida which was 93. Cam Newton did everything in his first year at Auburn, your point fails.

Newton was 21 with 3 years experience at the college level, not a snot-nosed 18 year old.

College accomplishments and awards carry far too much weight with some than they should.

Midwesternbillsfan

04-24-2011, 07:17 AM

Why will both QB's still be on the board at #4? It honestly just reads like that's your opinion- or your hope.

Figster

04-24-2011, 07:28 AM

Newton was 21 with 3 years experience at the college level, not a snot-nosed 18 year old.

College accomplishments and awards carry far too much weight with some than they should.

I didn't make a deal with you that I can remember, told you I'm already all in with the flying Dutchmen.

Happy Easter Everyone, GO SABRES!!

YardRat

04-24-2011, 09:14 AM

I didn't make a deal with you that I can remember, told you I'm already all in with the flying Dutchmen.

Happy Easter Everyone, GO SABRES!!

From Feb 13...

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=3416088#post3416088

If you want to renege, I understand.

Figster

04-24-2011, 10:36 AM

From Feb 13...

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=3416088#post3416088

If you want to renege, I understand.

Thats O.K., I just sent a PM to flying Dutchmen that I have to renege with him because I made the deal with you first.

Seemed like the fair thing to do, sorry guys, my memory is horrible...

Note: Another thing I could do is go 5,000 with each of you If its OK with you Yardrat, but I'll let you decide.

better days

04-24-2011, 11:05 AM

Newton was 21 with 3 years experience at the college level, not a snot-nosed 18 year old.

College accomplishments and awards carry far too much weight with some than they should.

JR. College IS NOT College level.

YardRat

04-24-2011, 11:16 AM

Thats O.K., I just sent a PM to flying Dutchmen that I have to renege with him because I made the deal with you first.

Seemed like the fair thing to do, sorry guys, my memory is horrible...

Note: Another thing I could do is go 5,000 with each of you If its OK with you Yardrat, but I'll let you decide.

I'm cool with that.

Figster

04-24-2011, 11:38 AM

I'm cool with that.

That's cool, I'll get back to flying dutchmen and tell him I can go 5,000

Thanks Yardrat, and have a Happy Easter

YardRat

04-24-2011, 11:40 AM

That's cool, I'll get back to flying dutchmen and tell him I can go 5,000

Thanks Yardrat, and have a Happy Easter

You also :beers:

feldspar

04-24-2011, 01:24 PM

Newton and Gabbert are both way overvalued only because of the position they play. This could be the David Carr at #1 and Joey Harrington at #3 draft all over again, God forbid.

There HAVE been drafts where not a single QB amounted to jack-squat, you know. Time will tell about this draft, but the consensus top two guys don't impress me as being worth the pick, or even close to that.

The future of the Bills is at stake if we take either of these guys at #3.

Figster

04-25-2011, 08:50 AM

You also :beers:

Thanks to a very generous and awesome fellow poster whom is helping me save face, we are back on with the original bet of 10,000

Scary/exciting week coming up :couch: Sabres on Tuesday, draft on Thursday

Don't Panic

04-26-2011, 01:55 PM

Why will both QB's still be on the board at #4? It honestly just reads like that's your opinion- or your hope.

My opinion for sure... I know everyone and their mother is saying Newton #1 but I just don't see it. Without comparing him to anyone else (because there is no apples to apples comparisons when it comes to this), I'll just say that he does not fit the mold of a successful NFL QB. Nor does Gabbert. I would honestly take Jake Locker over either one of those guys, and my feeling (nothing more) is that Carolina and Buffalo will think the same. We'll find out in 48 hours...

Extremebillsfan247

04-26-2011, 01:59 PM

Newton's going #1 overall. I guarantee the Bills aren't drafting Gabbert, and I'm pretty sure Gabbert will drop farther than expected - into the 8-12 range. So I'd agree that Gabbert isn't going in the top 3, but I doubt severely that Newton makes it out of the top 1, much less the top 3.
As of today the Tuesday before the draft, I have to agree that Newton will be the top pick in this draft. I think my mock draft will hold up well.