my ambivalent feelings on a QB

[trapezeus]

1. I don't want a qB in the first round.
a. i don't want a qb at 3
b. i don't want to trade back up for a qb
2. I am ok with taking a qb in the second round but I don't think we should be married to any one guy. Everyone who looks good, also has a big flaw. that's why i wouldn't trade back up for one of these guys. if ponder is there, great (but he has an injury history), if kaepernick is there great (but he didn't play a pro system), if locker is there, great (but he has accuracy issues.

I'd take one of those guys, if they were available, but because they have these prominent knocks, i don't think they are worthy of panicing over and giving up picks.

If all these guys are gone, keep drafting defense.

[X-Era]

1. I don't want a qB in the first round.
a. i don't want a qb at 3
b. i don't want to trade back up for a qb
2. I am ok with taking a qb in the second round but I don't think we should be married to any one guy. Everyone who looks good, also has a big flaw. that's why i wouldn't trade back up for one of these guys. if ponder is there, great (but he has an injury history), if kaepernick is there great (but he didn't play a pro system), if ponder is there, great (but he has accuracy issues.

I'd take one of those guys, if they were available, but because they have these prominent knocks, i don't think they are worthy of panicing over and giving up picks.

If all these guys are gone, keep drafting defense.

OK, I respect your opinion.

What solution do you have if, and IMO when, we find out Fitz is a limiting factor to a team that would make the playoffs or beyond with a much better QB?

Whats your plan for a legit upgrade as a backup plan for our future?

What do we do with Fitz when he is a FA next year and when he asks fro 7 or 8 mill per?

[ct bills fan]

1. I don't want a qB in the first round.
a. i don't want a qb at 3
b. i don't want to trade back up for a qb
2. I am ok with taking a qb in the second round but I don't think we should be married to any one guy. Everyone who looks good, also has a big flaw. that's why i wouldn't trade back up for one of these guys. if ponder is there, great (but he has an injury history), if kaepernick is there great (but he didn't play a pro system), if ponder is there, great (but he has accuracy issues.

I'd take one of those guys, if they were available, but because they have these prominent knocks, i don't think they are worthy of panicing over and giving up picks.

If all these guys are gone, keep drafting defense.

I couldn't agree with you more - If Dareus is available at 3 and we take Gabbert I will scream. As for the "2nd tier" qbs, if we feel we must have one, see who's available at 34, though I'd still rather have a 2011 contributer at 34 than a qb.

[Bill Cody]

1. I don't want a qB in the first round.
a. i don't want a qb at 3
b. i don't want to trade back up for a qb
2. I am ok with taking a qb in the second round but I don't think we should be married to any one guy. Everyone who looks good, also has a big flaw. that's why i wouldn't trade back up for one of these guys. if ponder is there, great (but he has an injury history), if kaepernick is there great (but he didn't play a pro system), if ponder is there, great (but he has accuracy issues.

I'd take one of those guys, if they were available, but because they have these prominent knocks, i don't think they are worthy of panicing over and giving up picks.

If all these guys are gone, keep drafting defense.

who has accuracy issues?

[ct bills fan]

Ponder doesn't have accuracy issues, he's had injury issues.

[trapezeus]

who has accuracy issues?

sorry about that. i edited it. Locker has accuracy issues.

i say that from what i read, not because i know what i'm talking about with the hyper specifics of QB play at the NFL level

[trapezeus]

What solution do you have if, and IMO when, we find out Fitz is a limiting factor to a team that would make the playoffs or beyond with a much better QB?

I don't doubt that fitz may not be your ideal QB. I do think he did enough to win about 8-10 games last year. the defense definitely didn't. I don't think the upgrades in this draft alone are going to be playoff worthy. i do expect to be picking in the top 10 next year, with a decent core on offense and defense. I think a top flight QB getting the reigns to a team that can play defense, and that can run well will make the transition easier than giving the reigns to a rookie who doesn't have a defense to rely on.


Whats your plan for a legit upgrade as a backup plan for our future?
We have Levi in the system, at some point there are going to be some FA and buddy said as much in terms of finding a back up. I don't think the 2011 bills are a playoff team with fitz and the season is ruined if he gets hurt. i think there are a lot of growing pains for 2011. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt.

For a bills fan who is expecting 2011 to be different from the last 11, this isn't the answer. for a bills fan who bought into the 3 year mantra, this is part of the process.


What do we do with Fitz when he is a FA next year and when he asks fro 7 or 8 mill per?

This is the best question. I have no answer to this. My guess is that thebills will be able to pay him a decent 3-4 year deal with some guaranteed money upfront. perhaps even front load the guarantee bonus money and get relief on the back end when you are most likely to cut him. I see a lot of AVP in fitz. i see a guy who would stay in the area in coaching capacity and transition from starter to backup to coaching.

[Bill Cody]

sorry about that. i edited it. Locker has accuracy issues.

i say that from what i read, not because i know what i'm talking about with the hyper specifics of QB play at the NFL level

No problem, just trying to follow your post.

If Locker were to fall to 34 I'd have zero ambivalent feelings. Sadly he won't. But Kaepernick might. He's an intriguing guy, good size, very good athlete, seems to be a strong leader. Somewhat long delivery but he gets it there. Need a lot of work under center so he's a bit of a project. But major upside. A 1-2 of Dareus and Kaepernick works for me. Ponder is VERY accurate but his injury history and arm strength concern me.

[X-Era]

I don't doubt that fitz may not be your ideal QB. I do think he did enough to win about 8-10 games last year. the defense definitely didn't. I don't think the upgrades in this draft alone are going to be playoff worthy. i do expect to be picking in the top 10 next year, with a decent core on offense and defense. I think a top flight QB getting the reigns to a team that can play defense, and that can run well will make the transition easier than giving the reigns to a rookie who doesn't have a defense to rely on.


We have Levi in the system, at some point there are going to be some FA and buddy said as much in terms of finding a back up. I don't think the 2011 bills are a playoff team with fitz and the season is ruined if he gets hurt. i think there are a lot of growing pains for 2011. If he gets hurt, he gets hurt.

For a bills fan who is expecting 2011 to be different from the last 11, this isn't the answer. for a bills fan who bought into the 3 year mantra, this is part of the process.



This is the best question. I have no answer to this. My guess is that thebills will be able to pay him a decent 3-4 year deal with some guaranteed money upfront. perhaps even front load the guarantee bonus money and get relief on the back end when you are most likely to cut him. I see a lot of AVP in fitz. i see a guy who would stay in the area in coaching capacity and transition from starter to backup to coaching.

Nice responses! :clap:

On a FA backup... to me that's a journeyman and not a franchise guy. And probably no better than Fitz who is not going to be good enough IMO. To argue that point, who's the last "average" QB to win the SB (which ought to be our real goal)? Rodgers? Brady? Manning (either one)? I mean a guy at that level of play will just never hit FA. If someone did, and we were willing to pay the huge contract, I'd be fine with it. I just don't see Nix ever doing it or a guy like that ever being available.


If it's from next years draft, Luck is out... were not drafting at #1, and we are highly unlikley to give up what it would take to get to #1... Barkley? If he ends up with franchise potential, he's going in the top 5. We may not even be picking that high. And that leaves us with the same class of QB prospect that we are looking at now.

My feeling:

1) Those who don't want a QB at 3 never will, in any draft, unless they are picking at 1. Because any prospect outisde or picks 1 or 2 is likey the same caliber of player that we are looking at now.

2) Many bring a serial approach to this. The ask themselves what they need, answer defense, and then are hell bent on defense with their 1st pick. I think this point gets made by looking at how some are talking Cam Jordan at 3. Cameron is probably rated at say 10. Which is about where Gabbert is rated by many. So Jordan is fine at 3, but Gabbert isn't? That seems to say that it's about filling a need, at one position, regardless of whether it's a reach or not. To me it's a bit short-sighted and may not work best in building the team.

And ultimately, if we can't come up with an alternate plan for getting a SB winning QB, we should be considering guys at 3 and be willing to draft one if we think they are worthy... No plan and skipping a guy that could be the answer is a bit scarry.

[trapezeus]

i just don't think we are out of the woods of picking in top 5 next year. i honestly think the bills are going about 6-10 next year. and i think with some bad breaks could easily be worse. with some good breaks, they might be exceed expectations.

i do think if you can get through this year with a decent offense that is entertaining and a defense that shows that it can get off the field on third down, trading up for a QB that you want and believe in is easier because presumably you have:
a. some depth and a core at most positions so losing a couple picks here and there won't hurt
b. you are willing to part with enough picsk to slide up to the spot where you get a game changer.

i just don't see a game changer in this draft QB wise. everyone has some glaring issue. for every reason you want to fall in love with the guy, there are major flags.

i am not against picking a QB in round 1 most times. i just don't think this draft of players is giving us what we want.

Here are my concerns on the players
newton: character...there are plenty of flags at this point. you really are gambling on him and i think if he is to be successful, he probably needs to be on a good team where they can be like, "we can live without you.

Gabbert: i never really heard about this guy until after luck dropped out. rumor is that he is a dump down guy who routinely goes underneath.

Ponder: injuries and possibly gun shy on long passes

Locker: accuracy issues and never able to win the big games

Mallet: just a grade A slacker and entitled *****. That sounds a lot like leaf to me but with less hype.

With those knocks on the guys, i don't think you can trade up to get someone. if when you pick, and they are there, and you like a QB selection, you pick them. But you don't move up for them.

[trapezeus]

No problem, just trying to follow your post.

If Locker were to fall to 34 I'd have zero ambivalent feelings. Sadly he won't. But Kaepernick might. He's an intriguing guy, good size, very good athlete, seems to be a strong leader. Somewhat long delivery but he gets it there. Need a lot of work under center so he's a bit of a project. But major upside. A 1-2 of Dareus and Kaepernick works for me. Ponder is VERY accurate but his injury history and arm strength concern me.

of the grouping of QB choices, i'd love to see kaepernick, because his knock is that he was in the pistol, and offense that chan doesn't mind running from time to time. So he could be a nice fit.

[don137]

Sounds like QBs will be gone by round 2. If the Bills do not go QB in round 1 then I doubt Tier 2 QBs will be there.

[X-Era]

i just don't think we are out of the woods of picking in top 5 next year. i honestly think the bills are going about 6-10 next year. and i think with some bad breaks could easily be worse. with some good breaks, they might be exceed expectations.

i do think if you can get through this year with a decent offense that is entertaining and a defense that shows that it can get off the field on third down, trading up for a QB that you want and believe in is easier because presumably you have:
a. some depth and a core at most positions so losing a couple picks here and there won't hurt
b. you are willing to part with enough picsk to slide up to the spot where you get a game changer.

i just don't see a game changer in this draft QB wise. everyone has some glaring issue. for every reason you want to fall in love with the guy, there are major flags.

i am not against picking a QB in round 1 most times. i just don't think this draft of players is giving us what we want.

Here are my concerns on the players
newton: character...there are plenty of flags at this point. you really are gambling on him and i think if he is to be successful, he probably needs to be on a good team where they can be like, "we can live without you.

Gabbert: i never really heard about this guy until after luck dropped out. rumor is that he is a dump down guy who routinely goes underneath.

Ponder: injuries and possibly gun shy on long passes

Locker: accuracy issues and never able to win the big games

Mallet: just a grade A slacker and entitled *****. That sounds a lot like leaf to me but with less hype.

With those knocks on the guys, i don't think you can trade up to get someone. if when you pick, and they are there, and you like a QB selection, you pick them. But you don't move up for them. Mizzou was a dump down offense that had pre-snap reads... He won't have trouble throwing down the field, he just wasn't asked to do it... and when so many throws went for 1st downs, why look for lower percentage plays... That was probably Mizzou's thinking

[Bill Cody]

Sounds like QBs will be gone by round 2. If the Bills do not go QB in round 1 then I doubt Tier 2 QBs will be there.

I bet Ponder, Kaepernick and Dalton will all be on the board at 34.

[ddaryl]

I bet Ponder, Kaepernick and Dalton will all be on the board at 34.
I agree.. there wil be some decent names left on board at #34... No way will this draft have 5 or even 6 QB's drafted in the 1st...


Newton, Gabbert, Locker and MAYBE a 4th QB in the 1st rd... MAYBE