Yes, we have lost our minds

[X-Era]

Did I miss something? Because as I see it, were a 4 and 12 team. This is a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years and then was in for one game and immediately out. Yet somehow, on a 4 and 12 team, were supposed to believe that we have the answer at QB? Did I mention we won 4 games last year?

No, it's not all our quarterbacks fault. And yes, it's remotely possible that we can get to and win the SB with a top defense and Fitz. Notice I said remotely. But were still a long way off from that defense. Maybe we didn't lose because of him. But, we sure as hell didn't win enough because of him either. I mean let's review his performance. Last year he ranked 22nd in the league in passers rating, 22nd in passing yards, 13th in touchdowns, and 27th in completion percentage. That's barely average and in fact below average. But we can win with him? What data do we have to support that? He can beat the Pats? or Jets? because they are ahead of us in this division. What data do we have to support that? Did I mention we only won 4 games?

I have no problem with supporting Fitz as the answer for now. We have no other choice. There is no better option. I hoped that the Bills would find a prospect in this years draft that they felt would be the franchise quarterback we so desperately need. They clearly didn't feel that they found that guy. OP put's it best, Needing a franchise quaterback won't make one appear. I'm fine with that. As I said all along, if the Bills drafted a guy they thought would develop into the answer, I was fine with it. However, the flip side is also true, if the didn't they shouldn't try to force it. But, we better not dare end the search. We have no justification for doing that. If anything, you better roll up your sleeves and work harder. Because not having a franchise quarterback appear doesn't make the need disappear either.

And more importantly, even if they do believe in Fitz, even if they want no other option, any fan of the Bills who has watched us lose 4 Super Bowls and not return to the payoffs for 11 years would not be sold on anyone or anything at this point. NOR SHOULD THEY BE. Losing your mind is when you see things that aren't there. Could Fitz become the franchise quarterback that we need, anything can happen. But he isn't now. And to actually root against finding a franchise quarterback when he has not proven he is all we need is nuts. Some feel just fine at quarterback yet we, and he, won a total of 4 lousy games last year. The data speaks for itself. The search must continue.

If you choose to think positively on Fitz, so be it, I think you should. And yes, I will as well. But I won't root against trying to find the real solution while we give this guy a shot. But for a team that last went to the Super Bowl with a HOF QB and has missed the playoffs for 11 years and that has a quarterback with less than average numbers, I'm frankly floored that we would try to feel like we are all set. Since when is 4 and 12 "all set"? Since when is settling for mediocrity OK? Is that what we've come to? Because that's crazy. I won't do it.

Root for the guy, root for the Bills. But continue to look for something much better while we remain realistic about what we do and don't have. Not finding the answer right now is fine. We shouldn't force it. But don't settle forever, don't stop looking for something better. Be supportive while we wait. But don't try to convince yourself were all set until the the team proves it; until they win a SB or even just get to the damn playoffs. And until that happens, the reality is the search continues in earnest. The search is still on.

[T-Long]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

well said my friend...I've been on this boat for awhile now. We are not going to the playoffs with Fitz as our QB this year or three years down the road. We are going to be better than 4-12 this year, but not .500. What that does is gets the Bills out of play for Luck or Barkley. We start the cycle all over again. I like Aaron Williams, I really do, but I think they should have taken Andy Dalton at 34 and learned a year under Fitz, then taken the reigns. Who's to say how he is going to do? All I know is, the kid is a winner, and we may be regretting passing on him in Round 2.

[kelly2reed4six]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

my general perception is that most of the people on here have not been saying that we don't need to worry about finding a franchise QB. No one in their right mind thinks fitz is a franchise QB......of course anything can happen, but its doubtful.....I think the general consensus here is that we would rather stick it out another year with Fitz than reach for one of the QB's in this draft class and have them set us back yet AGAIN.....


say we drafted Gabbert and he busts, and in the mean time Dareus is eating o-lines for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on another team....then we still need an elite QB AND an elite tackle.....Dareus is nearly "bust proof"....the QB's in this years class are not.....

[X-Era]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

my general perception is that most of the people on here have not been saying that we don't need to worry about finding a franchise QB. No one in their right mind thinks fitz is a franchise QB......of course anything can happen, but its doubtful.....I think the general consensus here is that we would rather stick it out another year with Fitz than reach for one of the QB's in this draft class and have them set us back yet AGAIN.....


say we drafted Gabbert and he busts, and in the mean time Dareus is eating o-lines for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on another team....then we still need an elite QB AND an elite tackle.....Dareus is nearly "bust proof"....the QB's in this years class are not.....

I'm fine with that. And as other needs get addressed, this need moves up. It never should have been down the list at all IMO. And if the front office can do the math and see that they aren't getting a shot at what they need from the draft, they should have already been looking elsewhere. A team with a huge need like this needs to be looking at least one year in advance at what they can get from next years draft. If it doesn't look like the answer will be available for us next year either, you better adjust to a new plan.

[kelly2reed4six]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

well said my friend...I've been on this boat for awhile now. We are not going to the playoffs with Fitz as our QB this year or three years down the road. We are going to be better than 4-12 this year, but not .500. What that does is gets the Bills out of play for Luck or Barkley. We start the cycle all over again. I like Aaron Williams, I really do, but I think they should have taken Andy Dalton at 34 and learned a year under Fitz, then taken the reigns. Who's to say how he is going to do? All I know is, the kid is a winner, and we may be regretting passing on him in Round 2.

You are right that we could regret passing on Dalton....then again if he busts and Williams turns into a solid component on this defense than you can argue the same exact point for Williams. "could" is the name of the game.


The fact is, Andrew Luck is not the god of all QB's.....any QB can bust. And just because we are not picking in the top 5 doesn't mean we aren't getting a franchise QB.


Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Schaub, Cutler, Flacco....and of course there are your unlikely guys like Brady, Romo, and Warner....


Some of you guys are acting like unless we are drafting top 5 we aren't getting a QB.....yeah, some great QB's have come out of those top few picks....but a lot great ones have come outside of the top 10 as well.



Maybe I'm alone here, but I support Nix's strategy 100%. That's just me though.

[T-Long]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

You are right that we could regret passing on Dalton....then again if he busts and Williams turns into a solid component on this defense than you can argue the same exact point for Williams. "could" is the name of the game.


The fact is, Andrew Luck is not the god of all QB's.....any QB can bust. And just because we are not picking in the top 5 doesn't mean we aren't getting a franchise QB.


Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Schaub, Cutler, Flacco....and of course there are your unlikely guys like Brady, Romo, and Warner....


Some of you guys are acting like unless we are drafting top 5 we aren't getting a QB.....yeah, some great QB's have come out of those top few picks....but a lot great ones have come outside of the top 10 as well.



Maybe I'm alone here, but I support Nix's strategy 100%. That's just me though.

Luck and Barkley could very well go 1 and 2 in 2012, which is why I feel like we need to be there to land one of them.

Of course, the draft is a crapshoot. But I don't think we need to necessarily land one there, I just got done saying Andy Dalton would have been a great addition at 34.

[elltrain22]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

You make very good points X and I will completely agree that Fitz is no where near a long term solution. He is a stop gap until we draft a "franchise" type qb. Here are some reasons that I am on board w/ us not drafting a qb THIS year.

1.) Jauron, Levy, and company ****ed this roster up so much, that Nix & Gailey have had to retool the whole roster. I think they've done a pretty nice job, but it takes time.

2.) Other than Gabbert, and if you consider Newton one, there weren't any "franchise" type qb's. IMHO, this years crop of qb's was below average, especially compared to previous years. There was really no need to draft guys like Dalton, Kaepernick, and/or Mallett b/c they were not long term solutions, and could possibly be even a worse option than Fitz (probably not, but its conceivable)

3.) Our offense wasn't great, but it was competitve last year. It was actually legit when we had Parrish,and a somewhat healthy off-line. That was only 1 year under Gailey's guidance, and the future can only become brighter. The need to draft offense, given the other needs, was minimal, b/c from there point of view, and most of ours, the offense is good enough to score points, and has the potential to be good (not great)

4.) Our defense was awful to watch. No pass rush, terrible run defense, terrible lb'ers, not very many turnovers, and a complete lack of depth, at all positions. The idea to draft defense mainly, was a no-brainer. Taking a DT over a qb was a great pick, and IMO one that will help this franchise out immediately. Maybe we shoulda rolled the dice in the 2nd or 3rd w/ Dalton, Kapp, and/or Mallett, but I don't disagree w/ us upgrading our defensive unit.

5.) This team is still not a playoff team, and I think at best (that is assuming we play football this year) we're an 8 win team. With that said, if we win 5-8 games this year, we will once again be in a top 7-15 draft slot, and if we want our qb then, there might be just as good, maybe even a better qb prospect. We all think Luck will go #1, but ya never know, b/c he may in fact nose dive just like Jake Locker did, especially since Harbaugh, and alot of talent have left Stanford. I'm willing to wait till next year.
========================================================

[X-Era]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

Luck and Barkley could very well go 1 and 2 in 2012, which is why I feel like we need to be there to land one of them.

Of course, the draft is a crapshoot. But I don't think we need to necessarily land one there, I just got done saying Andy Dalton would have been a great addition at 34.

Very realistic possibility which puts us out of the running unless we make a trade up. The cost will be huge.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

Fitz is the 2nd best qb in the afc east, hes way better than sanchez. all we need is a veteran backup. build the 2000 ravens defense and kill brady!

[Raptor]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

No matter what Fitz was going to be the starter and Im confused as to what you wanted the Bills to do?

Did you want them to trade up for Cam because I cant see that being worth it

Draft Gabbert? I'll never comment on a college QB again if he becomes a franchise QB, thats how confident I am that he will never amount to anything

Reach for Locker or Ponder at #3? I dont see either becoming anything more than above avg

Take Dalton in the second? Maybe, but honestly he went from being an underrated to overrated real fast in the draft process

and drafting one after the early second round history shows is pretty much throwing away a pick

Im with you that getting a franchise QB is the biggest need but taking one for the sake of taking one is a massive mistake. I didnt like any of the QB's in this draft to turn into a franchise guy and a lot of draft experts agreed. Even Buddy said if they thought a franchise guy was on the board when they picked they wouldnt hesitate to take him. They clearly didnt think one was there and I trust them. Nix was in the war room when the Chargers drafted both Brees and Rivers, Modrak drafted McNabb, Gailey has shown he knows a lil something about offense and that he can get a lot out of QB's. Those guys didnt see a franchise guy in this draft when they were on the board and I agree with them

[BertSquirtgum]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

i don't understand the point of this thread. i think everyone knows we still need a franchise qb. it's just that there was no one worth picking when the Bills were up at the podium.

[YardRat]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

We were 4-12 because we didn't have the answer at any position, not just QB.

[Beebe's Kid]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

Like I tell my buddies... We can, and will, win with Fitz. If loving Fitz is wrong, I don't want to he right.

I genuinely like the guy. The beard, the Harvard thing, the fact that he wears his wedding ring on the field, his big head, and bigger heart.

That helps with the the "we can't win with Fitz," or the people that don't have a hair in their ass to say he's good, because they might be wrong. Maybe they just can't believe in him, but to hear people say he can't do it makes me like him that much more.

I have to throw out there...people always say we can't win a SB wig Fitz... Well that is a pretty tall order isn't it? Considering we've never won, and that everybody wants the next Jim, even though he never won...

Fitzy will have the women of Buffalo growing beards this year. Pro-Bowl, and he bears Brady...twice.

[better days]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

Did I miss something? Because as I see it, were a 4 and 12 team. This is a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 11 years and then was in for one game and immediately out. Yet somehow, on a 4 and 12 team, were supposed to believe that we have the answer at QB? Did I mention we won 4 games last year?

No, it's not all our quarterbacks fault. And yes, it's remotely possible that we can get to and win the SB with a top defense and Fitz. Notice I said remotely. But were still a long way off from that defense. Maybe we didn't lose because of him. But, we sure as hell didn't win enough because of him either. I mean let's review his performance. Last year he ranked 22nd in the league in passers rating, 22nd in passing yards, 13th in touchdowns, and 27th in completion percentage. That's barely average and in fact below average. But we can win with him? What data do we have to support that? He can beat the Pats? or Jets? because they are ahead of us in this division. What data do we have to support that? Did I mention we only won 4 games?

I have no problem with supporting Fitz as the answer for now. We have no other choice. There is no better option. I hoped that the Bills would find a prospect in this years draft that they felt would be the franchise quarterback we so desperately need. They clearly didn't feel that they found that guy. OP put's it best, Needing a franchise quaterback won't make one appear. I'm fine with that. As I said all along, if the Bills drafted a guy they thought would develop into the answer, I was fine with it. However, the flip side is also true, if the didn't they shouldn't try to force it. But, we better not dare end the search. We have no justification for doing that. If anything, you better roll up your sleeves and work harder. Because not having a franchise quarterback appear doesn't make the need disappear either.

And more importantly, even if they do believe in Fitz, even if they want no other option, any fan of the Bills who has watched us lose 4 Super Bowls and not return to the payoffs for 11 years would not be sold on anyone or anything at this point. NOR SHOULD THEY BE. Losing your mind is when you see things that aren't there. Could Fitz become the franchise quarterback that we need, anything can happen. But he isn't now. And to actually root against finding a franchise quarterback when he has not proven he is all we need is nuts. Some feel just fine at quarterback yet we, and he, won a total of 4 lousy games last year. The data speaks for itself. The search must continue.

If you choose to think positively on Fitz, so be it, I think you should. And yes, I will as well. But I won't root against trying to find the real solution while we give this guy a shot. But for a team that last went to the Super Bowl with a HOF QB and has missed the playoffs for 11 years and that has a quarterback with less than average numbers, I'm frankly floored that we would try to feel like we are all set. Since when is 4 and 12 "all set"? Since when is settling for mediocrity OK? Is that what we've come to? Because that's crazy. I won't do it.

Root for the guy, root for the Bills. But continue to look for something much better while we remain realistic about what we do and don't have. Not finding the answer right now is fine. We shouldn't force it. But don't settle forever, don't stop looking for something better. Be supportive while we wait. But don't try to convince yourself were all set until the the team proves it; until they win a SB or even just get to the damn playoffs. And until that happens, the reality is the search continues in earnest. The search is still on.

Well, what do you suggest that Nix should have done in this draft or do now in free agency? I don't think there was a better QB than Fitz in the draft & I don't think a better QB will be available in free agency either.

Nix at least has the ship pointed in the right direction. A number of gaping holes were filled in the draft & I expect a few more to be filled in free agency. When a GREAT QB becomes available the Bills should be poised to make that leap to the level of playoff teams.

[psubills62]

Re: Yes, we have lost our minds

Dang it, I had a whole long response typed up and then accidentally hit refresh and lost it.

Well, I'll try to boil it down. We aren't taking a QB unless he's a franchise guy. There have been NONE available to us in the draft in the two years that Nix and Gailey have been here. Why reach on a guy whose upside is Trent Edwards? Why spend a first round pick on a guy who is more likely to end up like Kyle Boller than even Joe Flacco?

Fitz is not great, nobody's pretending he is. But I have not seen a single QB available to us in the draft that has made me say "Yes, that kid will be a significant upgrade on Fitz." If you can't improve your team with the pick don't make it.

I subscribe to the Baltimore/Green Bay/Pittsburgh mold of building a team: talent first, QB when available. Build a dominant defense and get talent on both sides of the ball. When you do that, you'll have the luxury of taking a QB who has upside and grooming him. Are we going to reach a SB with Fitz? No. But I do believe it's very possible for us to make the playoffs with Fitz if we put talent around him. We need talent, period, not just a QB.

Build the defense and OL first. Then get a QB and WR's to help him out. That's how you build a team, UNLESS you find a Peyton Manning kind of guy. Only one that I've seen lately has been Bradford, and we had no chance of getting him. To be honest, none of the guys I've seen available to us have been even close to significant upgrades on Fitz, so why bother taking them?