Draft day winners and losers

[T-Long]

Granted, it's hard to predict the future. But as of today, these are my winners and losers of draft day. Sure, there were more winners and more losers, but these are the most obvious ones in my opinion. What do you think?

Winners and Losers (http://www.thefanhub.com/1080/elsewhere/nfl/nfl-drafts-winners-and-losers.html)

[Lone Stranger]

You seem to be on target here.

[Ickybaluky]

Not for nothing, but Marcus Cannon doesn't have a "skin-condition". He has Non-Hodgkin lymphoma, which is a form of blood cancer.

Also, the reason the Pats took 2 RB is because they only have 2 under contract, Danny Woodhead and Benjarvus Green-Ellis. I can understand if you criticize the picks, but it was undeniably a need.

Also, Seattle picked OT James Carpenter at #25, not a guard. Seattle had a huge need on the OL, it was a big problem for them last year, which is why they drafted Carpenter and Moffitt. They have neglected their OL for years.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

T- im digging the article but i almost feel a bit of homerism when you write about NE... maybe its my OWN homerism :)

[mysticsoto]

I'd have included the Saints as having a great draft.

[T-Long]

Not for nothing, but Marcus Cannon doesn't have a "skin-condition". He has Non-Hodgkin lymphoma, which is a form of blood cancer.

Also, the reason the Pats took 2 RB is because they only have 2 under contract, Danny Woodhead and Benjarvus Green-Ellis. I can understand if you criticize the picks, but it was undeniably a need.

Also, Seattle picked OT James Carpenter at #25, not a guard. Seattle had a huge need on the OL, it was a big problem for them last year, which is why they drafted Carpenter and Moffitt. They have neglected their OL for years.

Good catch on the lymphoma. My uncle was just diagnosed with skin cancer, so must have had that on the brain and didn't catch it.

As for the RB need for the Pats, I have to disagree. You just said they have two under contract already. So, you need to draft two more? That makes absolutely no sense. One yes, but not two back to back. What are you going to do with 4 RB's? If a guy makes the practice squad after taking him early Day 3, then that is not a successful pick IMO.

Carpenter projects in the NFL as a right tackle or guard. If you are considered to be a guard, then you should not be taken in round 1. I even wrote that in article if you noticed. I said that they may see him as a guard or possibly a right tackle. If you are taking a tackle in the first round, then he best be your tackle and not possibly your starting guard.

[mysticsoto]

The more I think about it, the more I would have included the Colts also as having a great draft. Without Manning, the Colts are a below avg team. The Patriots have exposed their weakness as forcing Peyton to move to make him less accurate and force errors or incompletions. He needed better protection and they got it for him with top Olinemen. I applaud their effort. He is the general of that team and he can pick another team apart with time - and that's exactly what they've tried to move toward. Polian knows what he's doing...

[Bangarang]

Not for nothing, but Marcus Cannon doesn't have a "skin-condition". He has Non-Hodgkin lymphoma, which is a form of blood cancer.

Also, the reason the Pats took 2 RB is because they only have 2 under contract, Danny Woodhead and Benjarvus Green-Ellis. I can understand if you criticize the picks, but it was undeniably a need.

Also, Seattle picked OT James Carpenter at #25, not a guard. Seattle had a huge need on the OL, it was a big problem for them last year, which is why they drafted Carpenter and Moffitt. They have neglected their OL for years.

It was the players chosen and not necessarily the positions picked. The Seahawks picked Carpenter with Carimi and Sherrod still on the board. To me that's a head scratcher. Same thing with the 2 RBs the Pats picked. There had to have been better RBs available in the 2nd round.

[Ickybaluky]

As for the RB need for the Pats, I have to disagree. You just said they have two under contract already. So, you need to draft two more? That makes absolutely no sense. One yes, but not two back to back. What are you going to do with 4 RB's? If a guy makes the practice squad after taking him early Day 3, then that is not a successful pick IMO.

They only have 2 RB on the whole team, one under contract for one more year and one under contract for 2 more years. Most teams carry 4-5. That makes it a need, in fact a very large need. They still need more before camp, but they had a huge need at RB. I am not sure how you can't see that.

New Orleans took Mark Ingram despite already having Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory and recently re-signing Pierre Thomas. Does that make it a dumb pick? No.


Carpenter projects in the NFL as a right tackle or guard. If you are considered to be a guard, then you should not be taken in round 1. I even wrote that in article if you noticed. I said that they may see him as a guard or possibly a right tackle. If you are taking a tackle in the first round, then he best be your tackle and not possibly your starting guard.

Carpenter started the last 2 years for Alabama at LT. He was All-SEC. Pete Carroll has already said they will play him at RT.

I also don't buy that #25 can't be an OG. Was Eric Wood a bad pick? Buffalo took him at #28 and he played right away at OG. Baltimore took Ben Grubbs at #29 in 2007 and he has been a rock for them. The Pats took Logan Mankins at #31. Steve Hutchinson, was taken at #17.

I can understand not taking an OG in the top half of the first round, but #25 is not too late for an OG (even though Carpenter was taken to play RT).

[Ickybaluky]

It was the players chosen and not necessarily the positions picked. The Seahawks picked Carpenter with Carimi and Sherrod still on the board. To me that's a head scratcher. Same thing with the 2 RBs the Pats picked. There had to have been better RBs available in the 2nd round.

That isn't what he wrote, he wrote that he didn't understand them taking 2 RB. It is a huge need for them, though.

I can understand having opinions on players, but really they haven't played. Jacksonville was ripped for "reaching" to take Tyson Alualu, but it has proven to be a great pick. Other teams were high on Alualu, so they jumped up and got him and he proved worth it, that makes it a great pick IMO.

As for Carimi and Sherrod, it isn't like they were rated as elite OL. Some might prefer them, but Seattle preferred Anderson. Either way, you can't say they weren't addressing a need.

As for the Pats, Vereen is a great fit for their system. They value all-around players who can run, block and catch. He has decent size (5-10, 210#), good speed, can block and can catch the ball. The only reason people look at it strangely is because they passed on LeShoure (taken with the following pick). However, LeShoure doesn't fit as well. I actually really like the Verren pick, it was one of my favorites. I was less sold on Solder and Dowling, who seem to be very talented but have more risk. I hate risk on high picks. I see Vereen as a pretty easy projection to their offense, and think he will fit in well.

Then, in the 3rd they took Ridley, a big back to use in short yardage and big packages who excelled on ST in college. 3rd round isn't a premium pick, so I have no problem with picking a guy who will be a role player there.

I think the dumbest thing is to criticize them for taking Mallett. Is there risk? Sure, but it was only a 3rd round pick. The potential reward is very high. Even if it only has a 25% chance of paying off, it is worth it. I remember Ron Wolf saying he would take a QB every year if the right guy was there, because it is such an important position and if the guy turned out good it was a trade asset. Mallett seems worth that.

[Ingtar33]

I'd have included the Saints as having a great draft.


yep. saints and colts both had excellent drafts.

[paladin warrior]

:roflmao: :haha: N.E Losers :lol: :laughing::laughing::zonelunch:lmao: :lmao:

[jcdavey]

most of what i've seen had pats scoring an A on their draft


fanhub looks a bit like bleacherreport.....

[X-Era]

Granted, it's hard to predict the future. But as of today, these are my winners and losers of draft day. Sure, there were more winners and more losers, but these are the most obvious ones in my opinion. What do you think?

Winners and Losers (http://www.thefanhub.com/1080/elsewhere/nfl/nfl-drafts-winners-and-losers.html)Dude, your piece on New England was virtually plagiarism... if I had actually wrote down my thoughts. NE sucks.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Not for nothing, but Marcus Cannon doesn't have a "skin-condition". He has Non-Hodgkin lymphoma, which is a form of blood cancer.

Also, the reason the Pats took 2 RB is because they only have 2 under contract, Danny Woodhead and Benjarvus Green-Ellis. I can understand if you criticize the picks, but it was undeniably a need.

Also, Seattle picked OT James Carpenter at #25, not a guard. Seattle had a huge need on the OL, it was a big problem for them last year, which is why they drafted Carpenter and Moffitt. They have neglected their OL for years.

Shh, don't stop him, he is on a roll.

[X-Era]

Shh, don't stop him, he is on a roll.Setting aside my blatant hatred, the Pats still had a bad draft.

A few phrases come to mind: "reaches" and "the like picks more than great players"

The team is getting worse and rather than take the best talent they can get to get better, they trade it away for future picks.

Future picks isn't getting this team past the 1st round of the playoffs.

[mysticsoto]

It was the players chosen and not necessarily the positions picked. The Seahawks picked Carpenter with Carimi and Sherrod still on the board. To me that's a head scratcher. Same thing with the 2 RBs the Pats picked. There had to have been better RBs available in the 2nd round.

While I agree that the Pats didn't have a great draft, Belichek seems to like to do that...he takes multiple people at a position hoping he can find what he's looking for. For the past couple of years, he had been doing that with TEs and looks like he finally got some TEs that are working out for him. Now he's doing the same with RBs. I guess when you are good year after year after year, you can afford to squander multiple picks on a position until you hit and get what you want. It's not a strategy that would work for most teams, but when you have good people already and just need to hit certain key positions, I guess it's a strategy to use. NE has lacked a RB playmaker for awhile. For awhile, they didn't care since Brady could cover for that problem, but now they might want to start taking some pressure off Brady (or in case he goes out injured) and also to run clock down once you are leading.

If they hit on a RB that catapults their run game...we could be in for another decade of Patriots on top. :(

[Ickybaluky]

I think the criticism of the Pats draft is the same as it is every year. It is more about who they didn't take and less about who they did.

You can see what their plan was. They took a guy who will step in for Matt Light at LT, joining Vollmer to make one of the most athletic OT combinations in the NFL. They took an OT/OG who can develop into a starter in Cannon. They took a strong blocking TE and 2 RBs.

You look at that, and it shows they want to emphasize the running game. The Pats transformed themselves into a 2 TE offense last year. They used 2 TE more than any other team in the NFL. They are going bigger up front to match up with the physicality of the Jets front, which has given them problems the last 2 years. That is sound strategy.

On top of that, they took a big CB and a talented headcase QB. Both are intriguing players.

They did take some risk. Solder is a converted TE who needs some technique and strength work and Cannon has the health questions (although they say there is a 90% chance he will be fine). I think both those risks are mitigated by them having one of the best OL coaches in the NFL. The CB struggled with health last year, but he is a very talented kid who should help them match up with big WR (Braylon Edwards gave them problems last season, and I think Dowling was picked with that in mind). Mallett with either be a big hit or a spectacular bust, but they can afford the risk.

Looking at it, I have no problem with what they did. They did take talented players. They did have a plan. Time will tell how those players fit.

The biggest issue with their draft is them continuing to ignore the pass rush. They should be good on defense overall with the improvement of the young players, along with the return of Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden. They need pass rush help, though, and have for some time. However, the season hasn't started yet, so I will wait to see it play out.

[Stewie]

Granted, it's hard to predict the future. But as of today, these are my winners and losers of draft day. Sure, there were more winners and more losers, but these are the most obvious ones in my opinion. What do you think?

Winners and Losers (http://www.thefanhub.com/1080/elsewhere/nfl/nfl-drafts-winners-and-losers.html)

Good article.. noticed something, Detroit plays in the NFC Central (you said south)

[stuckincincy]

Granted, it's hard to predict the future. But as of today, these are my winners and losers of draft day. Sure, there were more winners and more losers, but these are the most obvious ones in my opinion. What do you think?

Winners and Losers (http://www.thefanhub.com/1080/elsewhere/nfl/nfl-drafts-winners-and-losers.html)


..."Sure, they won all six of their division games, but where did it get them? Nowhere. The future looks very bright for these young Bengals."...


That was in 2009. Last season, the Ohio River Candy Stripers were 1 and 5 in the AFC North.


:2cents:

[better days]

They only have 2 RB on the whole team, one under contract for one more year and one under contract for 2 more years. Most teams carry 4-5. That makes it a need, in fact a very large need. They still need more before camp, but they had a huge need at RB. I am not sure how you can't see that.

New Orleans took Mark Ingram despite already having Reggie Bush, Chris Ivory and recently re-signing Pierre Thomas. Does that make it a dumb pick? No.



Carpenter started the last 2 years for Alabama at LT. He was All-SEC. Pete Carroll has already said they will play him at RT.

I also don't buy that #25 can't be an OG. Was Eric Wood a bad pick? Buffalo took him at #28 and he played right away at OG. Baltimore took Ben Grubbs at #29 in 2007 and he has been a rock for them. The Pats took Logan Mankins at #31. Steve Hutchinson, was taken at #17.

I can understand not taking an OG in the top half of the first round, but #25 is not too late for an OG (even though Carpenter was taken to play RT).

Reggie Bush will not be a Saint next year unless he agrees to a HUGE pay cut. Maybe the Pats should have signed him in the offseason rather than draft a 2nd RB.

With all the picks that the Pats* had, they could have drafted much better players than they did IMO. If there was ever a time to move up this was the draft to do so................unless as you posted, the Pats* plan on trading up for Luck next year.

I agree a Guard can be taken in the late 1st, but if any team needed a QB, it is Seattle.

[Ickybaluky]

Interesting article reviewing the 2001-2010 drafts. Funny how your perception is Belichick accumulates picks but trades down and doesn't get great players, but the facts say he knows what he is doing.

Decade in the making: the ultimate NFL draft grades (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3749_Decade_in_the_making%3A_the_ultimate_NFL_draft_grades.html)


Using information from the great folks at pro-football-reference.com – or, as we like to call it, “The Bible” – we broke down the 10 drafts from 2001-2010 looking for an impartial answer to who was the best. Who drafted the most stars, the most longtime starters, the most promising young players? Who had the most players from their drafts active in the league last year? Who was the best?

When it was all said and done, there was an easy and not-so-surprising answer: the New England Patriots.

...

And they did it despite having the best record in the league over that decade, which means having the least amount of actual draft power.

Here are the numbers:


New England (A)
Pro Bowlers: 11 (2nd)
Draftees Active in 2010: 46 (t-3rd)
Players with 50+ Career AV: 7 (1st)
Players with 20+ Career AV: 22 (t-1st)
Best Pick: CB Asante Samuel (4th round, 2003)
Worst Pick: WR Chad Jackson (2nd round, 2006)

Summary: The Patriots got at least one impact player in each of their 10 drafts from 2001-2010, and maybe the biggest tribute to their ability to identify top talent is that all 10 of their No. 1 picks were still playing in the league last year along with 11 of their 14 No. 2s. This bodes well for 2011 draftees Nate Solder, Ras-I Dowling and Shane Vereen.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

The best thing about the internet is anyone can start a web site and become a "sports writer".

[T-Long]

The best thing about the internet is anyone can start a web site and become a "sports writer".
I didn't become a sportswriter off the internet, I've been working in sports my entire life. But thanks for continuing to post in these threads with comments like this. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, then why bother posting?

[T-Long]

Interesting article reviewing the 2001-2010 drafts. Funny how your perception is Belichick accumulates picks but trades down and doesn't get great players, but the facts say he knows what he is doing.

Decade in the making: the ultimate NFL draft grades (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3749_Decade_in_the_making%3A_the_ultimate_NFL_draft_grades.html)



Here are the numbers:

You failed to mention that Thomas Dimitroff, one of the best GM's around, was in New England for six of those years evaluating picks. I am not saying that Belicheck can't draft well, of course he can. What I am saying is I think this year's draft is going to be a flop. It would be irresponsible to say that the Patriots history of drafting has been bad, I just feel like their draft weekend was not impressive at this point. We'll see three or fours years down the road to see if I was right or totally missed here. That's the fun part

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I didn't become a sportswriter off the internet, I've been working in sports my entire life. But thanks for continuing to post in these threads with comments like this. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, then why bother posting?

Because I can.

[X-Era]

CB commented on the Pats draft and nailed it:

"Really what it comes down to is different philosophies. The Patriots love to move up and down the draft board and acquire picks for the future. This is admirable, but I also believe New England passes up some good opportunities and this year would be a good example. They desperately needed a pass rusher. Their third down defense was worst in the league, and they had a chance with all their high picks to get an impact performer. They chose not instead trading away their 28^th overall pick to New Orleans and their 60^th overall pick to Houston. It can work for you and against you. I think this year it worked against the Patriots."


http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2011/05/06/fan-friday-5-6/

[mayotm]

Because I can.Damn, you're a bad ass.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Damn, you're a bad ass.

OK

[T-Long]

hmmmm, got a negative rep by "someone" in this thread. I wonder who it could be? Man up and actually put your name next to the rep instead of hiding behind your Mommy. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

hmmmm, got a negative rep by "someone" in this thread. I wonder who it could be? Man up and actually put your name next to the rep instead of hiding behind your Mommy. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

It wasn't me, I would sign my name.

[T-Long]

It wasn't me, I would sign my name.
But I mean seriously, who does that? I come on here with Bills player interviews, draft interviews, press conferences, etc for all of you. I share my articles on not only the Bills but the rest of the NFL because the majority of people enjoy them and it brings up great discussions.

[X-Era]

But I mean seriously, who does that? I come on here with Bills player interviews, draft interviews, press conferences, etc for all of you. I share my articles on not only the Bills but the rest of the NFL because the majority of people enjoy them and it brings up great discussions.Don't sweat it. Here I'll send some :posrep: along to make up for it...

Well as soon as I can...

[CleveSteve]

I mean... who throws a shoe? Really?