Posey Will Have Expanded Role [Archive] - BillsZone.com

TedMock

06-23-2003, 12:41 PM

I think Newman was misused too but I also watched him blitz several times last season and get knocked back by blockers. I really thought last season was going to be his year. I thought so much of him that I have the #53 Newman jersey!! Time to get a new one I suppose. I don't know what happened to him but if anything, at least Posey's bigger. He didn't seem to fit the 46 which is strange because there are many similarities to the 34 we ran under Wade. Maybe having Ted, Bruce and Phil on the DL helped him get those 8 sacks a few years ago. I don't know, just speculation.

mypoorfriendme

06-23-2003, 12:48 PM

posey over newman because he brings 8 sacks after only starting 8 games last season. he picks up a little bit of slack left by the d-line not getting any presure on the qb

06-23-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Patrick76777
Anyone see this one yet?

From KFFL

Allen Wilson, of the Buffalo News, reports for the Sporting News that Buffalo Bills LB Jeff Posey will get some snaps at defensive end this season. Posey recorded eight sacks last year as a pass-rushing specialist with the Houston Texans.

BOY! This sure screams out that Jones is fine.

:D

Earthquake Enyart

06-23-2003, 01:24 PM

I said that already. :eek:

Newman is another example of below average player that everyone falls in love with. :rolleyes:

PA Season Ticket Holder

06-23-2003, 02:03 PM

Newman had one good year and there is still people who thinks we messed up getting rid of him.

TedMock

06-23-2003, 02:24 PM

exactly. Like I said I bought the jersey thinking that he'd be back in sack form after learning the new defense for a year and that the misuse was due to a learning curve. But, he was blitzing and not even getting close. Posey has more size so hopefully he can take on blockers a little better. Even if they end up with the same number of sacks, maybe backs going around the end or catching screen passes will have a tougher time getting yards. It's the little things that go un-noticed that make the huge differences in games. That's why Talley was so important. He'd make a tackle for a 2 yard gain on 2nd down and 7. Crucial plays that people don't notice.

The_Philster

06-23-2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by TedMock
I think Newman was misused too but I also watched him blitz several times last season and get knocked back by blockers. I really thought last season was going to be his year. I thought so much of him that I have the #53 Newman jersey!! Time to get a new one I suppose. I don't know what happened to him but if anything, at least Posey's bigger. He didn't seem to fit the 46 which is strange because there are many similarities to the 34 we ran under Wade. Maybe having Ted, Bruce and Phil on the DL helped him get those 8 sacks a few years ago. I don't know, just speculation.

I'd say part of it had to do with the talent up front but you have to remember, we didn't run a 46 that often. It was more often a base 4-3. They made all this hoopla about the 46 coming in yet we didn't even use the *46* packages 50% of the time. It reminds me a bit of what happened with Bryce Paup. He was a monster in the 3-4 but switching to the 4-3, along with the groin injury, shut him down.

Jan Reimers

06-24-2003, 07:09 AM

Getting back to Posey/Spoon, don't forget that Spoon has a pretty good nose for the ball. It makes sense to bring him in at OLB - or in the middle - when Posey goes to DE.

The_Philster

06-24-2003, 03:53 PM

I don't know if Spoon has the coverage skills to play at SLB in a 4-3 front though.

HenryRules

06-24-2003, 03:58 PM

I don't know if Spoon has a nose for the ball ... from what I remember, one of those interceptions was a fluke bounce off the line of scrimmage ... not that it was bad of him to catch the ball, but it wasn't an indication of skills. If he can get 2 interceptions in a year again, I'll give him some more credit, but even DL have gotten 2 INTs in a year before, showing that 2 INTs in a year can be misleading.

casdhf

06-24-2003, 09:54 PM

wouldnt him being in the right place at the right time to catch a deflection be having a good nose for the ball?

Expansion Blues

07-12-2003, 07:43 PM

I like Posey. He is only a situational pass rusher though. If you watch the game you guys played against us, Henry got most of his yardage running right at Posey. He can't stop the run worth a @#$!. He got hammered all year long against the run. He is too much of a tweener. He is a poor man’s Aundray Bruce.

He is going on his 5th team in 6 years, and he is what he is. An excellent edge rusher. If you guys want him to be more than that I think you will be disappointed. I was looking forward to watching him as a 3rd down passing specialist this year, but I think he realized that was his future with the Texans and bolted in a hurry for the first offer on the table and a promise to battle for a starting job.

I wish him luck. Great guy.

<center>http://www.chron.com/content/news/photos/02/09/08/texans/photo13.jpg</center>

Dozerdog

07-12-2003, 08:26 PM

Welcome, Expansion Blues!

The_Philster

07-12-2003, 08:27 PM

More like welcome back ;)

TigerJ

07-12-2003, 09:13 PM

I think that in view of the fact that LDE has been so unsettled over tha past couple years, and there are no firm answers, the coaching staff is smart to try some different things that will increase the number of options they have. I don't think that trying Posey in a three point stance or as a stand up rush end says anything about the Bills giving up on Jones. It says only that they don't know if he'll come back successfull. They don't know if Denney will develop. They don't know if Kelsay can play the spot successfully as a rookie. The don't know if McKenzie can come back. Chances are they will get some hopeful answers on more than one option, but adding another option to the mix is only smart coaching.

Doc

07-12-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
I like Posey. He is only a situational pass rusher though. If you watch the game you guys played against us, Henry got most of his yardage running right at Posey. He can't stop the run worth a @#$!. He got hammered all year long against the run. He is too much of a tweener. He is a poor man’s Aundray Bruce.

He is going on his 5th team in 6 years, and he is what he is. An excellent edge rusher. If you guys want him to be more than that I think you will be disappointed. I was looking forward to watching him as a 3rd down passing specialist this year, but I think he realized that was his future with the Texans and bolted in a hurry for the first offer on the table and a promise to battle for a starting job.

I wish him luck. Great guy.

I checked the gamebooks from the games Posey started, and he played ROLB, which means he defended the opponent's left side. In the Bills game, he wasn't the starter (Kevin Mitchell was), but the Bills ran mostly to the right side and had a lot of success. Running to the left side they had a big run or two, but nowhere near the success they did on the right side, i.e. away from Posey. Posey also got a sack.

Expansion Blues

07-13-2003, 03:18 AM

I have that game on tape. I counted 16 times he went to the left and 12 times to the right. That is not "mostly" to the right. Looks fairly even to me. Feel free to watch the game. If you watch the play after the sack you will notice that Travis Henry ripped a 14 yard run on the next play and Posey was in on that tackle too. :hamrhed:

...like I said, I like Posey. I think he will become a fan favorite here. A "Pocket full of Posey" was becoming a popular phrase around here.

Dozerdog, and The_Philster ... good to be here. Great forum. ;)

kdharge

07-13-2003, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
I have that game on tape. I counted 16 times he went to the left and 12 times to the right. That is not "mostly" to the right. Looks fairly even to me. Feel free to watch the game. If you watch the play after the sack you will notice that Travis Henry ripped a 14 yard run on the next play and Posey was in on that tackle too. :hamrhed:

...like I said, I like Posey. I think he will become a fan favorite here. A "Pocket full of Posey" was becoming a popular phrase around here.

Dozerdog, and The_Philster ... good to be here. Great forum. ;) I have a tape of that game and what I remember most besides the Bills win was Posey knocking the Crap out of Jonas Jennings before sacking Drew .......Thats why I'm so excited about him because he brings a very physical style to the Rush

Doc

07-13-2003, 10:22 AM

Okay here are the Bills' running plays in the game. Again I assume that Posey played ROLB, so runs to the left are where he would have factored into the mix:

T.Henry right end to 50 for 12 yards (M.Stevens).
T.Henry right end to HST 42 for 8 yards (K.Wong J.Sharper).
T.Henry to BUF 22 for 8 yards (K.Mitchell).
T.Henry right end ran ob at HST 49 for 9 yards (M.Stevens).
T.Henry up the middle to HST 19 for 4 yards (J.Foreman J.Sharper).
T.Henry right end to HST 15 for 4 yards (E.Brown G.Walker).
T.Henry left end to BUF 40 for 7 yards (J.Sharper).
T.Henry up the middle to BUF 44 for 4 yards (J.Foreman A.Glenn).
T.Henry left end to BUF 42 for 3 yards (J.Sharper). No play because of penalty.
T.Henry up the middle to BUF 33 for 14 yards (M.Coleman J.Posey).
T.Henry right guard to BUF 44 for 4 yards (J.Sharper).
T.Henry left end to BUF 23 for 3 yards (S.Payne).
T.Henry left end to BUF 41 for 9 yards (J.Posey).
L.Centers up the middle to HST 15 for 13 yards (E.Brown).
T.Henry right tackle for 1 yard TOUCHDOWN.
T.Henry right end to BUF 26 for 6 yards (S.Payne).
T.Henry up the middle to BUF 36 for 10 yards (M.Coleman J.Foreman).
T.Henry right tackle to BUF 36 for no gain (E.Brown G.Walker).
T.Henry left guard to HST 21 for 4 yards (J.Sharper).
T.Henry right end to HST 8 for 6 yards (J.Foreman).
T.Henry up the middle for 23 yards TOUCHDOWN.
T.Henry left guard to BUF 44 for -1 yards (K.Mitchell J.Sharper).
T.Henry up the middle to BUF 16 for 3 yards (J.Foreman K.Wong).
T.Henry left end to BUF 24 for -1 yards (C.Sears).
T.Henry left end to BUF 47 for -2 yards (C.Sears J.Foreman).
T.Henry right end to HST 13 for 17 yards (J.Foreman).
T.Henry right end to HST 10 for 3 yards (A.Glenn).
T.Henry left end to BUF 36 for 4 yards (S.Payne G.Walker).
T.Henry left end to BUF 47 for 4 yards (M.Stevens).
T.Henry left end to BUF 47 for -5 yards (E.Brown).
T.Henry right guard to HST 26 for 4 yards (J.Foreman J.Sharper).

That's 12 times to the right (including a play nullified by penalty), 11 times to the left, 7 times up the middle, and 1 time (Mitchell's tackle) that was unspecified. So you're right, it was even in terms of play selection. However check the yardage gained on the right (70 yards) versus the left (25 yards) versus the middle (71 yards), and one unspecified (8 yards and since Mitchell made the tackle I'll assume that Posey wasn't in on the play and it was to the left).

Doc

07-13-2003, 02:19 PM

BTW, Donahoe was just on ESPN and said among other things that they knew they were getting a good player with Posey, but that he has exceeded their expectations. I also heard the Bills' LB coach, Chuck Lester, say that Posey is "the real deal." I can only hope for Texans fans that Charlie Clemons approaches Posey's 9 sacks and provides close to the same level of play.

Expansion Blues

07-13-2003, 06:59 PM

eh, the common game between us was the Bills/Texans game. I was just stating he is one-dimensional and that was the easiest game to point to. If he wasn't he would have signed a far richer contract than the modest price you brought him in at.

My point did not intend to be the Bills game as a *classic example* of his lack of run stopping skill. It is just a common game. I did not check the game log, but unless he jumped the center, he had to go to the right or the left of him. I considered a play run to the left shoulder of the center a play running to the left. I did not count "center" runs when I was scanning the video before I posted.

That said, I am not sure how many more times I can tell you he was a fan favorite and one of the players I liked last year. Just because I liked the guy doesn't mean he can do it all. As a fan who understands the game I was just sharing what I know.

You may get defensive, but heck.........relax. Trading knowledge isn't going to kill you.

As far as Clemens goes, he is not an upgrade. He is just filling a spot until Peek can step up. As an expansion team, we have too many holes, and were not spending big money on FA's. I don't expect much from the ex-Saint that is past his prime.

07-13-2003, 09:05 PM

First of all, where do some of you come up w/ some of this.

Newman was not as big as Posey and therefore couldn't hit as hard?? Posey is listed at 249 and 6'4" whereas Newman is listed at 248 and 6'2". Big deal. In fact, it stands to reason that the shorter guy at the same weight would pack more of a wallup!

http://www.sportsline.com/u/football/nfl/playermatchupcgi/nfl_playermatchup.cgi

Originally posted by Pride
Anyone else think Newman would have been just fine?

I agree! GM "issues" having to 'remove the former GM's players.' Never understood that. Meanwhile we bring real gems like Robinson, C. Johnson, Huntley, and Jenkins! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
For the sixth time, I saw GW on Empire babbling about this at the last minicamp. Gives some creedence to Jones retiring....

I agree EE! I give more credence to Jones retiring than I do to him starting any games at all this season.

It's also easy to talk about "how well these players are gonna do", but until the season starts, we have no clue. Last year we heard how someone was gonna step up at the DE position and how good Denney was. Lies!

Is Posey good? Fast?

We'll find out, but last year he had 5 sacks in his first five games and then virtually disappeared down the stretch in the last 11 logging only 4 more sacks in only 3 of the remaining 11 games.

Maybe he and Drew will become best buds! They can throw a party after week five before their performances plummet.

:D

07-13-2003, 09:11 PM

BTW, Newman is only 26 and just entering his prime. Posey's only 28 this season, but Newman's posted 12.5 sacks in only 4 sesaons, only two seasons of starts, both on subpar defenses.

Posey has 11 sacks in his 6 seasons! 8 of which came last year on one of the league's better Ds w/ talent all around him in a 3-4, the same as where Newman registered his 8 in '00.

Expansion Blues

07-13-2003, 09:13 PM

I knock Posey's skill against the run, but I don't knock his pass rushing skills. He is a dynamic pass rusher. If you are going to use the "46 defense" you need someone with serious pass rushing skills, or your secondary will get burned too often.

The 46 defense is where you create an overload during (mostly) conventional offensive formations. It does not work as well in spread formations. You have 6 men rushing 5 linemen in the 46. With linebackers used as speed rushers. You line up your Defensive Ends in a technique over the outside shoulder of the Offensive Tackles, and a Safety must come up and play a linebacker technique and take the TE if he breaks off and goes hot. You need excellent Tackles who can tie up the 3 middle Offensive linemen keeping your LB's free to roam. You must have good “push” up the middle. If everything goes right the defense puts tremendous pressure on the quarterback and does not give the quarterback enough time to throw the ball anywhere other than a designated area that you “funnel” the play to. You do not give him enough time to make his entire progression. You force the offense to adjust to you instead of the D adjusting to the offense. You leave your corners to play a short zone picking up the nearest receiver.

Last year you lacked two things to excecute this defense. A good rotation of two-gap tackles to keep the Guards off of your linebackers, and linebackers with some serious pass rushing skills. Newman was solid, and he is a better all-round LB (imo) than Posey, but he can't rush the passer like Posey can.

And in this defense, you need some serious pass rushing skills to excecute this defense. Posey will make your pass defense better. I have reservations about how he will add to your run defense. I consider Posey a situational pass rusher, and I am willing to bet most of you will too at this time next year. ; )

07-13-2003, 09:41 PM

Well, I also have reservations that Adams is a two gap DT anymore. He used to be, but anyone who saw him play last year realized that he's fallen in his capability. That's why I was delighted to see that he got an incentive type of contract.

IMO what we'll see this year is a DT who's slightly better than average, which will bode well for us since last year we had well below average performances at the position. Even if he overachieves given his performances over last season and the season prior, then we still can't expect a return to his Pro-Bowl form IMO. He'd likely be significantly better than average but not dominating like PW is. Adams simply doesn't have the speed if he plays like he did last season. He also doesn't have the stamina that he used to over the 16-game season.

As well, since our primary weakness last season was v. the run, and since we still likely don't have a strong candidate against the run at "the other DE position" regardless of who gets the nod, I'm not sure what we needed was another pass rushing specialist before we needed a DE/OLB who could play the run.

It sounds as if the Bills D may in fact be weak against the run again according to your scenario. I won't say I agree w/ that, but if it's true, then having a guy like Posey may be controversial.

It's obviously good to have a great pass D, but not necessarily at the expense of the run D, especially since we were extremely weak at rush D last season and it was a good chunk of our undoing at the beginning of the season.

Doc

07-13-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I agree! GM "issues" having to 'remove the former GM's players.' Never understood that. Meanwhile we bring real gems like Robinson, C. Johnson, Huntley, and Jenkins!

I agree EE! I give more credence to Jones retiring than I do to him starting any games at all this season.

It's also easy to talk about "how well these players are gonna do", but until the season starts, we have no clue. Last year we heard how someone was gonna step up at the DE position and how good Denney was. Lies!

Is Posey good? Fast?

We'll find out, but last year he had 5 sacks in his first five games and then virtually disappeared down the stretch in the last 11 logging only 4 more sacks in only 3 of the remaining 11 games.

Maybe he and Drew will become best buds! They can throw a party after week five before their performances plummet.

:D

Yep, 9 sacks on the year (basically 10 sacks since he had 8 full sacks and 2-half sacks) sucks. Almost everyone averages a sack a game, just like every RB runs for their exact average on every play. Give me a break Wys! If you must know, the Texans started "name" player ("name" because he made the Pro Bowl with the Saints in 2000) Kevin Mitchell over Posey in games 4-10, but went BACK to Posey as the starter for games 11-16. The closest comparison to another FA LB'er is Rosey Colvin, who had 7 of his 10.5 sacks in his 1st 5 games, except HE didn't have someone starting over him for half the season.

07-13-2003, 09:52 PM

Once again inflating stats!

Both ESPN and NFL.com have Posey at 8 sacks.

I never said it wasn't a good season. What I did say is that it wasn't spectacular for starters. And secondly, that he'll be playing in a 4-3 vice the 3-4 that yielded him all those sacks.

When he played in a 4-3, since you're so well versed in Posey's career, :rolleyes:, the four teams that he played on prior, namely S.F. for three seasons, and then Jax before going to Houston, he played in 4-3s!

Since he logged only 3 sacks during that time, 2 full sacks and 2 half sacks, I presume it stands to reason that we may not see that same 8 sacks that he had last season, eh!

I realize that's probably a bit too much common sense and reason for ya, but oh well, what can I say!

:D

Doc

07-13-2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Once again inflating stats!

Both ESPN and NFL.com have Posey at 8 sacks.

Didn't you write this Wys:

"We'll find out, but last year he had 5 sacks in his first five games and then virtually disappeared down the stretch in the last 11 logging only 4 more sacks in only 3 of the remaining 11 games."

Seems to me that 5+4=9. Oh well in any case, I went through every game of his last year and checked the gamebooks for the defensive stats and correlated them with the play-by-play, and he had 8 full sacks and 2-half sacks. I wondered why there was a discrepancy and when I checked the game stats, they omitted the half sacks in both games.

I never said it wasn't a good season. What I did say is that it wasn't spectacular for starters. And secondly, that he'll be playing in a 4-3 vice the 3-4 that yielded him all those sacks.

When he played in a 4-3, since you're so well versed in Posey's career, :rolleyes:, the four teams that he played on prior, namely S.F. for three seasons, and then Jax before going to Houston, he played in 4-3s!

Since he logged only 3 sacks during that time, 2 full sacks and 2 half sacks, I presume it stands to reason that we may not see that same 8 sacks that he had last season, eh!

I realize that's probably a bit too much common sense and reason for ya, but oh well, what can I say!

Not much Wys. You've opened your mouth and removed all doubt!:snicker2:

Actually I'll admit that going from the 3-4 to the 4-3 MAY pose a problem, but had the Bills not added Don Blackmon and especially Dick LeBeau, I'd actually be worried. As for what he did with the 49'ers who kept him a DE for most of his beginning career and then cut him after the season in which they moved him to LB midway through, I could care less, just like I could care less what he did with the 2 teams he barely played with in 2001. The Bils saw something in him and so far have been raving about what a revelation he's been, and it's not like they signed him for his experience and knowledge of the defense, like they did with Robinson and Jenkins.

Halbert

07-13-2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by PA Season Ticket Holder
Newman had one good year and there is still people who thinks we messed up getting rid of him.

Well, there is at least a precidence. We did screw up by getting rid of Foreman. He had a big year in Houston. Not that we had much choice, but he did make plays last year.

07-13-2003, 11:07 PM

Carpenter had a great year as well, better than any of our other Ss.

Doc, give it a rest please. 8, 9, who cares. It's a discrepancy in the NFL.com and ESPN sites. On their site, in his season page they have him listed as 8. On the gamelogs page it's 9 overall, but when you look at the individual games, you find that two of those 9 are actually .5, for 8 total!!! Besides, if Posey were all that great, then he'd have done something prior.

As to his 'having played DE w/ the Niners", isn't that what's essentially gonna be done here w/ him? So if he didn't/couldn't succeed there, what on earth makes you think that out of his role this season, he's gonna fare any better?

I'll say he'll do OK, but if I had to guess I'd say 3 or 4 sacks. I'll also say that Newman will have more sacks in Houston. Wanna take that wager? I already made it w/ another! The assumption is that both players both start the full season.

I just don't think that Posey's gonna be as good as billed. Besides, somewhere we're gonna have to come up w/ some run D apart from the simple addition of Adams. Adams will plug his hole in front of him but that's about it. It'll stop the bleeding UTM, but it's not gonna do anything for the corners barring us finding a decent DE who can play the run since apparently Posey isn't noted for his run-stopping abilities, eh.