PTI, DO you like Ryan Fitzpatrick?

[The King]

I am just curious?

















Dude, we get it. Have you ever seen someone elses opinion swayed on a message board? Do you think you're going to convince anyone that you're right and they're wrong? We hear you man... back off your crusade a bit.

[PTI]

No crusade, I have people comment on things and I comment back and provide real numbers and information that people might not know. The new savior could not beat out Trent Edwards twice in training camp and is on his 3rd team. Rams kept Jamie Martin as backup instead of him. Bengals thought he sucked, but he is good for the Bills.

[justasportsfan]

No crusade, I have people comment on things and I comment back and provide real numbers and information that people might not know. The new savior could not beat out Trent Edwards twice in training camp and is on his 3rd team. Rams kept Jamie Martin as backup instead of him. Bengals thought he sucked, but he is good for the Bills.

You're the only one who called him a savior. Don't exaggerate peoples opinion of him.

[The King]

The dude threw 3,000 yards in 13 games and if you take the last NE game out of the scenario where his receiving core was thinned out more than Brain Moormans hair line and his season was absolutely better than average.

You also look at how he rallied against Cincy and how he played against Baltimore and I see enough to warrant another season... giving him another year in this system and giving the Bills a chance to figure out their defense and try and solidify this running game. There's no harm in it... there's always going to be young QB's coming out.

[psubills62]

No crusade, I have people comment on things and I comment back and provide real numbers and information that people might not know. The new savior could not beat out Trent Edwards twice in training camp and is on his 3rd team. Rams kept Jamie Martin as backup instead of him. Bengals thought he sucked, but he is good for the Bills.
It's a crusade when that's all you comment about.

"Real numbers and information people might not know?" Hahaha, sure. Great imagination you have there.

[OpIv37]

No crusade, I have people comment on things and I comment back and provide real numbers and information that people might not know. The new savior could not beat out Trent Edwards twice in training camp and is on his 3rd team. Rams kept Jamie Martin as backup instead of him. Bengals thought he sucked, but he is good for the Bills.

Facts are facts: the team's offensive numbers went way up when Fitz took over for Edwards. Granted, they still aren't good enough, but they were better.

And seriously, what do you expect the QB to do with no running game and a D that can't get off the field? No doubt we need an upgrade at QB, but it's ridiculous to look at this team and say "QB's the biggest problem." This team has some HUGE holes beyond QB.

More importantly than that, what makes you think any of these other guys would be better? We never had a shot at Newton, and Gabbert, Kapernick or Dalton won't contribute for 2-3 years down the road. It sucks, but that's how it is. Buffalo's need for a franchise QB doesn't make one materialize out of thin air. We were left with two options: reach for a QB or try to fix the myriad of other problems this team had. The FO took the better option.

And just for the record since you're relatively new here: I'm probably the most critical poster on this board. I slam the FO and the organization for almost every move they make, usually rightfully so. But I'm also not afraid to give them credit when credit is due. I'm not 100% sold on every draft pick they made, but I'm glad we got Dareus and I have to give them credit for waiting on a QB.

Fitzpatrick has his limitations, but like it or not, he's the best we can do for now. Trying to force another QB into the mix would come at the opportunity cost of fixing other problem positions. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[PTI]

The dude threw 3,000 yards in 13 games and if you take the last NE game out of the scenario where his receiving core was thinned out more than Brain Moormans hair line and his season was absolutely better than average.

You also look at how he rallied against Cincy and how he played against Baltimore and I see enough to warrant another season... giving him another year in this system and giving the Bills a chance to figure out their defense and try and solidify this running game. There's no harm in it... there's always going to be young QB's coming out.

If you take out the NE game then take out the Cincy game. Their starting CB, both starting safeties, and nickel corner, that is 4 of the top 5 secondary players, that dominated the Bills in the first half and were up 31-7 and had 2 INTs, did not play the 2nd half. Take that out too if take the NE game out.

Also, take out the Ravens game. They had 3 secondary players hurt and cut the starting CB the next day for sucking so bad that game. Please, stop giving Fitz the benefit of the doubt on one side without looking at the other.

[The King]

Ok, then how about this.

Ryan Fitzpatrick is our starter in 2011 and there's nothing you can say or do it about it. So get on board or get carpal tunnel.

[PTI]

Facts are facts: the team's offensive numbers went way up when Fitz took over for Edwards. Granted, they still aren't good enough, but they were better.

.

Fitz played in much of 2009 as QB too. In 2010, when he played even more, the Bills moved up 1 freaking spot in offense. It is a complete exaggeration to say the offense improved. The Bills scored over 19 points just 4 freaking times and the average if 17.7 sucks. Even if you want to say look at the Fitz games, they might be near 20 a game, but still, the inconsistency is proven by SCORING OVER 19 POINTS JUST 4 TIMES. Fitz sucks, every number you look at tells us that.

[PTI]

Ok, then how about this.

Ryan Fitzpatrick is our starter in 2011 and there's nothing you can say or do it about it. So get on board or get carpal tunnel.
I know that, but I am praying to every God out there that we get Kevin Kolb. Otherwise I might as well shave my head because I know I will be pulling my hair out.

I understand he slated to be the starter, it is very clear.

[justasportsfan]

If you take out the NE game then take out the Cincy game. Their starting CB, both starting safeties, and nickel corner, that is 4 of the top 5 secondary players, that dominated the Bills in the first half and were up 31-7 and had 2 INTs, did not play the 2nd half. Take that out too if take the NE game out.

Also, take out the Ravens game. They had 3 secondary players hurt and cut the starting CB the next day for sucking so bad that game. Please, stop giving Fitz the benefit of the doubt on one side without looking at the other.


wysian theory. Take away this and that to fit your argument.

Fitz had a revolving OL. He was playing in a new system . If you're going to make excuses for the other team, then the excuses for this team applies.

[The King]

By the way i'd rather everyone debate PTI here than have every thread hijacked....

[The King]

I know that, but I am praying to every God out there that we get Kevin Kolb. Otherwise I might as well shave my head because I know I will be pulling my hair out.

He's going to AZ. Get ready for your new look.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/villar11/mr-clean.jpg

[OpIv37]

Fitz played in much of 2009 as QB too. In 2010, when he played even more, the Bills moved up 1 freaking spot in offense. It is a complete exaggeration to say the offense improved. The Bills scored over 19 points just 4 freaking times and the average if 17.7 sucks. Even if you want to say look at the Fitz games, they might be near 20 a game, but still, the inconsistency is proven by SCORING OVER 19 POINTS JUST 4 TIMES. Fitz sucks, every number you look at tells us that.

Really? Fitz is the only player on the field? What about our makeshift OL after all the injuries? What about our highly-touted RB draft pick who couldn't jump ahead of a 30 year old UDFA in the depth charts? What about the injury to Parrish and Evans being invisible?

Every number you look at tells us the offense sucks, but not all of those numbers are Fitz's fault.

And I wasn't comparing the 2010 numbers to 2009. I was comparing the games Fitz started in 2010 with the games Edwards started in 2010.

[PTI]

wysian theory. Take away this and that to fit your argument.

Fitz had a revolving OL. He was playing in a new system . If you're going to make excuses for the other team, then the excuses for this team applies.

Not my argument bud, his argument said take away the NE game. Why is he allowed to do that? Because our WRs were hurt? Well, isn't it only fair to take out the Cincy game then? I am not making this up, you just fail at paying attention, that was his argument.

[Bangarang]

The dude threw 3,000 yards in 13 games and if you take the last NE game out of the scenario where his receiving core was thinned out more than Brain Moormans hair line and his season was absolutely better than average.

If we're going to cherry pick games out let's take out the Cincy game where half of their starting secondary was out of the game before half time.

[OpIv37]

I know that, but I am praying to every God out there that we get Kevin Kolb. Otherwise I might as well shave my head because I know I will be pulling my hair out.


what has Kolb done, at any point, ever, that makes you think he would be better than Fitz?

Different isn't necessarily better.

[PTI]

Really? Fitz is the only player on the field? What about our makeshift OL after all the injuries? What about our highly-touted RB draft pick who couldn't jump ahead of a 30 year old UDFA in the depth charts? What about the injury to Parrish and Evans being invisible?

Every number you look at tells us the offense sucks, but not all of those numbers are Fitz's fault.

And I wasn't comparing the 2010 numbers to 2009. I was comparing the games Fitz started in 2010 with the games Edwards started in 2010.

Offense did without a doubt look better when Fitz took over, but he was found out in the end. Bills scored 70 points the last 6 games and Fitz was dreadful. BTW, Bills scored 10 with Edwards against Miami, and 17 with Fitz, not much better, and I highly doubt Fitz would have been any better against the Super Bowl champ Packers.

[justasportsfan]

Really? Fitz is the only player on the field? What about our makeshift OL after all the injuries? What about our highly-touted RB draft pick who couldn't jump ahead of a 30 year old UDFA in the depth charts? What about the injury to Parrish and Evans being invisible?

Every number you look at tells us the offense sucks, but not all of those numbers are Fitz's fault.

And I wasn't comparing the 2010 numbers to 2009. I was comparing the games Fitz started in 2010 with the games Edwards started in 2010.
The D's inability to give the ball back to the O was also Fitz's fault.

[PTI]

what has Kolb done, at any point, ever, that makes you think he would be better than Fitz?

Different isn't necessarily better.

Different is most certainly better when what you have has already been found to be less than mediocre and not capable of being legit as a starter.

[OpIv37]

Different is most certainly better when what you have has already been found to be less than mediocre and not capable of being legit as a starter.

but Kolb hasn't been proven to be a legit starter either. We could give up draft picks for him and he'd end up being just as mediocre. That's not a winning formula.

[PTI]

but Kolb hasn't been proven to be a legit starter either. We could give up draft picks for him and he'd end up being just as mediocre. That's not a winning formula.

I understand that, but it shows that staying with mediocrity is unacceptable though. Trying to get better is progress, not sure how that is not seen, and QB is the most important spot. If Kolb sucks, well, you move on then. That is what you do. You don't sit and wait. Those that do get left behind.

[The King]

They didnt sit and wait though, they just focused on defense. Ignoring that wouldnt put them any closer either... you can only address so much.

[stuckincincy]

No crusade, I have people comment on things and I comment back and provide real numbers and information that people might not know. The new savior could not beat out Trent Edwards twice in training camp and is on his 3rd team. Rams kept Jamie Martin as backup instead of him. Bengals thought he sucked, but he is good for the Bills.

Fitz filled in for the injured Palmer. When BUF purchased him, on another site, I described exactly...his pluses and minuses. And I was dead on.

CIN did not think he "sucked." Far from it.

They have/had a qb - Palmer - who like Manning and others, command a huge proportion of team salary and cap money. Their team salary structure dictated that they could not commit the sum necessary to re-sign Fitz, with his improved market value. If they could, he would still be a B'gal.

[PTI]

They didnt sit and wait though, they just focused on defense. Ignoring that wouldnt put them any closer either... you can only address so much.

They did sit and wait on QB, that is what this freaking thread is about that you started. Why are you being so dense. You can't win without a decent QB. Look at the Ravens, Falcons and now Rams. How can it be ignored. If Stafford can ever stay healthy that team will be pretty good too. I don't get the do this first and then do that, every other team is doing things simultaneously.

[PTI]

Fitz filled in for the injured Palmer. When BUF purchased him, on another site, I described exactly...his pluses and minuses. And I was dead on.

CIN did not think he "sucked." Far from it.

They have/had a qb - Palmer - who like Manning and others, command a huge proportion of team salary and cap money. Their team salary structure dictated that they could not commit the sum necessary to re-sign Fitz, with his improved market value. If they could, he would still be a B'gal.

How in the world he increased his market value in anyone's eyes is completely bizarre. He sucked for the Bengals, a disappointment for a team that made the playoffs the season before. Please re-think that. Bills overpayed for him.

[The King]

And look at the Panthers... they took a second rate guy and here they are doing it again. Same goes for Cleveland, Arizona and even us with Losman...

[Buffalo Thriller]

I was on the QB train, but I have to deal with Fitz, no use *****ing about him anymore.

[justasportsfan]

I understand that, but it shows that staying with mediocrity is unacceptable though. Trying to get better is progress, not sure how that is not seen, and QB is the most important spot. If Kolb sucks, well, you move on then. That is what you do. You don't sit and wait. Those that do get left behind.


HOw is grabbing a franchise DL staying with mediocrity? How is fixing the 32th ranked run D instead of ignoring it staying with mediocrity? You CAN'T grab a franchise qb and a franchise DL with only one top 10 pick.

[PTI]

And look at the Panthers... they took a second rate guy and here they are doing it again. Same goes for Cleveland, Arizona and even us with Losman...

You have to try and find your guy. Who in the heck was Joe Flacco? They had Troy Smith but still took another guy. Jets tryoued out Favre and traded up to take Sanchez and made the playoffs two years in a row. Bucs had just take a young QB and tried him out in Josh Johnson, who looked decent, and they go and take Josh Freeman and look at him. Good teams are always looking to upgrade the QB spot. Well, teams that are lloking for consistent long term QB play look to upgrade. Look at the Packers taking Rodgers when they had a healthy Favre, heck, look at the Patriots developing and getting a lot for Cassel and now taking Mallet.

What don't people get? We did nothing at the most important spot and that cannot be viewed in any way possible as a good thing.

[PTI]

HOw is grabbing a franchise DL staying with mediocrity? How is fixing the 32th ranked run D instead of ignoring it staying with mediocrity? You CAN'T grab a franchise qb and a franchise DL with only one top 10 pick.
NOT TO YOU!!!! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT FITZ AND IS ABOUT QB PLAY, I HAVE SAID IT IS ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY WITH QB PLAY!!! Please freaking pay attention, it most certainly is accepting mediocre QB play. What I have said is why can't these thing be addressed simultaneously? Did the Bills really fail on all their draft picks last year? Bills are sticking with a crap QB when other teams all around the league are not, even those that already have QBs and investments in other QBs, they are looking to get better, we did not.

[The King]

You have to try and find your guy. Who in the heck was Joe Flacco? They had Troy Smith but still took another guy. Jets tryoued out Favre and traded up to take Sanchez and made the playoffs two years in a row. Bucs had just take a young QB and tried him out in Josh Johnson, who looked decent, and they go and take Josh Freeman and look at him. Good teams are always looking to upgrade the QB spot. Well, teams that are lloking for consistent long term QB play look to upgrade. Look at the Packers taking Rodgers when they had a healthy Favre, heck, look at the Patriots developing and getting a lot for Cassel and now taking Mallet.

What don't people get? We did nothing at the most important spot and that cannot be viewed in any way possible as a good thing.

The Jets are the perfect example. They built an offensive line and a stout defense and plugged their QB in. Same thing with Baltimore... they didnt suck balls and all of a sudden add a questionable QB and get 11 wins.

[OpIv37]

Gotta agree with justa here. There was more than enough mediocrity to go around- the Bills chose to fix the mediocrity on D first. If we truly wanted to get rid of all the mediocrity, we'd cut at least half our starters, and that's just not realistic.

[BertSquirtgum]

If you take out the NE game then take out the Cincy game. Their starting CB, both starting safeties, and nickel corner, that is 4 of the top 5 secondary players, that dominated the Bills in the first half and were up 31-7 and had 2 INTs, did not play the 2nd half. Take that out too if take the NE game out.

Also, take out the Ravens game. They had 3 secondary players hurt and cut the starting CB the next day for sucking so bad that game. Please, stop giving Fitz the benefit of the doubt on one side without looking at the other.

it's a merry go round with you. i read the same ****ing post every 5 post. give it up. i dislike you so much and i don't even know you. you're so dense it's pathetic.

[PTI]

The Jets are the perfect example. They built an offensive line and a stout defense and plugged their QB in. Same thing with Baltimore... they didnt suck balls and all of a sudden add a questionable QB and get 11 wins.

It is a complete lie when people bring the Jets up. They had a decent QB in Pennington, who led the Jets to the playoffs several times. They thought Favre was a better option and dumped Pennington, who by all accounts was a great team player and when healthy did pretty well for the JEts. THEN, Jets saw an opportunity to get better and younger in Sanchez and seized the chance.

It is a lie and at the very least a pure exaggeration to call the jets a plug and play, they did everything SIMULTANEOUSLY, the built their lines, their WR core, and changed RBs, and switched QB twice all at the same time, and it is undeniable. Re-think what the Jets did and what the Jets had.

[doug45]

I was on the QB train, but I have to deal with Fitz, no use *****ing about him anymore.


I like Ryan Fitzpatrick OK he seems like a pretty good guy, but he is an OK Backup at best. But that said we got what we got so I guess there is no reason to ***** anymore it won't do any good at this point. I figure 5 or 6 wins this year and that will be just enough to keep us from getting the big pick next year.

[justasportsfan]

NOT TO YOU!!!! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT FITZ AND IS ABOUT QB PLAY, I HAVE SAID IT IS ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY WITH QB PLAY!!! Please freaking pay attention, it most certainly is accepting mediocre QB play. What I have said is why can't these thing be addressed simultaneously? Did the Bills really fail on all their draft picks last year? Bills are sticking with a crap QB when other teams all around the league are not, even those that already have QBs and investments in other QBs, they are looking to get better, we did not.

They can't be addresed simoultaneously because because you have only one top 10 pick. Based on what been said , this is a weak QB class.


When Nix was with the chargers, they went with Rivers even while Brees was there. I assure you that Nix will not stop til he finds his franchise QB. He just didn't have enough picks to go with a sure franshice qb or thereweren't enough sure franchise qb's in this draft.

[Mr. Miyagi]

1. Fitzpatrick will not lead us to the promise land.
2. Fitzpatrick has limitations.
3. Fitzpatrick is the best QB choice for this season, considering the learning curve for a free-agent QB to come in and start right away.
4. Fitzpatrick wasn't the problem last season.

[stuckincincy]

How in the world he increased his market value in anyone's eyes is completely bizarre. He sucked for the Bengals, a disappointment for a team that made the playoffs the season before. Please re-think that. Bills overpayed for him.

Er...the '07 B'gals were 7 and 9 and did not make the playoffs. Fitz played in 13 games and started 12 in '08. He was acquired by BUF on 2/27/09.

Since your knowledge is limited and selective, I'll add that CIN had another year of massive injuries during the '08 season. You can look that up and spin it as you desire.

Please re-think that.

And it's "overpaid", not "overpayed", BTW.


Ciao.

[The King]

It is a complete lie when people bring the Jets up. They had a decent QB in Pennington, who led the Jets to the playoffs several times. They thought Favre was a better option and dumped Pennington, who by all accounts was a great team player and when healthy did pretty well for the JEts. THEN, Jets saw an opportunity to get better and younger in Sanchez and seized the chance.

It is a lie and at the very least a pure exaggeration to call the jets a plug and play, they did everything SIMULTANEOUSLY, the built their lines, their WR core, and changed RBs, and switched QB twice all at the same time, and it is undeniable. Re-think what the Jets did and what the Jets had.

Favre threw like 30 INT's they had no choice... they also failed trying to upgrade with Clemmens another wasted pick.

This is fun. I post one thought you post two paragraph. You're going to give yourself an annuerysm over something that you can't control.

[The King]

Er...the '07 B'gals were 7 and 9 and did not make the playoffs. Fitz played in 13 games and started 12 in '08. He was acquired by BUF on 2/27/09.

Since your knowledge is limited and selective, I'll add that CIN had another year of massive injuries during the '08 season. You can look that up and spin it as you desire.

Please re-think that.

And it's "overpaid", not "overpayed", BTW.


Ciao.

PWNED

[Philagape]

It is a complete lie when people bring the Jets up. They had a decent QB in Pennington, who led the Jets to the playoffs several times. They thought Favre was a better option and dumped Pennington, who by all accounts was a great team player and when healthy did pretty well for the JEts. THEN, Jets saw an opportunity to get better and younger in Sanchez and seized the chance.

It is a lie and at the very least a pure exaggeration to call the jets a plug and play, they did everything SIMULTANEOUSLY, the built their lines, their WR core, and changed RBs, and switched QB twice all at the same time, and it is undeniable. Re-think what the Jets did and what the Jets had.

Ferguson and Mangold came in 2006
Revis and Harris came in 2007
Keller, Woody, Faneca, Jenkins and Pace came in 2008
Sanchez, Edwards, Scott and Greene came in 2009
Holmes came in 2010

Doesn't look simultaneous to me.

And btw, Fitz has been better than Sanchez.

[justasportsfan]

Ferguson and Mangold came in 2006
Revis and Harris came in 2007
Keller, Woody, Faneca, Jenkins and Pace came in 2008
Sanchez, Edwards, Scott and Greene came in 2009
Holmes came in 2010

Doesn't look simultaneous to me.

And btw, Fitz has been better than Sanchez.


pwned!!

[PTI]

Er...the '07 B'gals were 7 and 9 and did not make the playoffs. Fitz played in 13 games and started 12 in '08. He was acquired by BUF on 2/27/09.

Since your knowledge is limited and selective, I'll add that CIN had another year of massive injuries during the '08 season. You can look that up and spin it as you desire.

Please re-think that.

And it's "overpaid", not "overpayed", BTW.


Ciao.
I did say it wrong, I meant to say the same team with Palmer the year after made the playoffs and that was mostly because Fitz sucked, but I was wrong saying the year before, meant to say the year after. It is undeniable that better QB play with the same team got the Bengals into the playoffs with Palmer after Fitz left.

[PTI]

pwned!!
Not even close to being owned. Yep, they planned on drafting a rookie QB in 2006 when Pennington lead them to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. Not even close to being owned. They were drafting line at the time to protect Pennington you fools and liars.

They drafted a few players each year and changed QB twice when they already had a decent one, that is a fact.

[justasportsfan]

they did everything SIMULTANEOUSLY,.

They drafted a few players each year and changed QB twice when they already had a decent one, that is a fact.
pwned!!!!

[BertSquirtgum]

Not even close to being owned. Yep, they planned on drafting a rookie QB in 2006 when Pennington lead them to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. Not even close to being owned. They were drafting line at the time to protect Pennington you fools and liars.

They drafted a few players each year and changed QB twice when they already had a decent one, that is a fact.

You just got PWNED son.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/3/3d/You_just_got_pwned.jpg

[stuckincincy]

I did say it wrong, I meant to say the same team with Palmer the year after made the playoffs and that was mostly because Fitz sucked, but I was wring saying the year before, meant to say the year after.


I hope you are wearing a helmet while you back peddle your tricycle. It would be so wring if you didn't.

Look up the B'gals injury woes. In '08 they had 2 ps games with an unheard-of, mere 60 players available. IIRC, by game 11, they had *one* starting OL still able to suit up. And the line got torn apart before that.

[blln4lyf]

PTI, if you attempt to upgrade the QB when you are not confident the new QB you are trying to grab will be an upgrade, you just end up giving away draft picks and resources. It is better to attempt to upgrade the QB when you are confident the new QB will be an upgrade so you don't end up with less overall talent and still no better at QB because you wasted draft picks and resources on non- franchise QB's. Your theory of making moves because you aren't happy with the QB play when there are a ton of other holes on the team is quick frankly, dumb.

It is pretty clear that they would of taken Newton had he been there at 3, and they likely would of taken Ponder had he been there at 34, but neither was available so they did not take a QB that they did not think would be a franchise QB with their picks just to pick one. Smart move? I say so, along with most on this board.

[justasportsfan]

PTI, if you attempt to upgrade the QB when you are not confident the new QB you are trying to grab will be an upgrade, you just end up giving away draft picks and resources. It is better to attempt to upgrade the QB when you are confident the new QB will be an upgrade so you don't end up with less overall talent and still no better at QB because you wasted draft picks and resources on non- fransise QB's. Your theory of making moves because you aren't happy with the QB play when there are a ton of other holes on the team is quick frankly, dumb.

It is pretty clear that they would of taken Newton had he been there at 3, and they likely would of taken Ponder had he been there at 34, but neither was available so they did not take a QB that they did not think would be a franchise QB with their picks just to pick one. Smart move? I say so, along with most on this board.
:posrep:

[PTI]

pwned!!!!

Please describe. The Jets already had a QB, they took line to help out Pennington, not to wait for a QB in Sanchez. You are a fool to not see they improved each year and changed QB twice.in an attempt to upgrade the position, it was not draft all the OL and DL and then draft a QB. They had a decent one, signed a HOF QB and then got Sanchez, Jets looked to upgrade and did.

I want to see you describe this. You won't be able to.

[trapezeus]

i think PTI's comments on the bengals game was accurate. the bills did rally after their last CB went down.

And he has some statistical information correct.

but i think fitz did well in situations where the defense truly was outrageous.

The hardest thing to justify taking a QB this draft was that the defense was so much deeper. so we could have picked up marginal offensive talent and let very good defensive playeres not get onto the team.

I think fitz fills a role. the bills need to draft in the top 10 again next year, and they most likely will.

[justasportsfan]

Please describe. The Jets already had a QB, they took line to help out Pennington, not to wait for a QB in Sanchez. You are a fool to not see they improved each year and changed QB twice.in an attempt to upgrade the position, it was not draft all the OL and DL and then draft a QB. They had a decent one, signed a HOF QB and then got Sanchez, Jets looked to upgrade and did.

I want to see you describe this. You won't be able to.
NIx has only been GM 2 years. The jets as pointed out by Philagape took more than 2 years to get to where they are. Simultaneous is not a few years.

[PTI]

I hope you are wearing a helmet while you back peddle your tricycle. It would be so wring if you didn't.

Look up the B'gals injury woes. In '08 they had 2 ps games with an unheard-of, mere 60 players available. IIRC, by game 11, they had *one* starting OL still able to suit up.

Guess Fitz will alwasy be defended by injuries, go ahead bud, you are not the first to hide Fitz's poor play and below average ability behind injuries. Pretty poor qualities I see that you represent. I said I was wrong, I said the wrong thing, owned up to it, but you want to go back on some type of offense here. Anyone, you are just making excuses for him.

[PTI]

NIx has only been GM 2 years. The jets as pointed out by Philagape took more than 2 years to get to where they are. Simultaneous is not a few years.

Yes it is. They had a decent QB in Pennington who led them to the playoffs several times, Bills do not have a decent QB. Jets were not developing a team. They had a team and they had a QB they viewed as a franchise QB already in 2006. If you cannot see that you are just stupid.

[PTI]

PTI, if you attempt to upgrade the QB when you are not confident the new QB you are trying to grab will be an upgrade, you just end up giving away draft picks and resources. It is better to attempt to upgrade the QB when you are confident the new QB will be an upgrade so you don't end up with less overall talent and still no better at QB because you wasted draft picks and resources on non- franchise QB's. Your theory of making moves because you aren't happy with the QB play when there are a ton of other holes on the team is quick frankly, dumb.

It is pretty clear that they would of taken Newton had he been there at 3, and they likely would of taken Ponder had he been there at 34, but neither was available so they did not take a QB that they did not think would be a franchise QB with their picks just to pick one. Smart move? I say so, along with most on this board.

Good teams make QB moves when they see an opportunity for a QB to be a good player. That is not dumb at all. If you aren't happy with your QB play you most certainly should change your QB. Heck, even if you are happy with your QB you should look to see if you can improve your QB play or have someone set for the future. See, the Packers and Patriots. You should always be looking for your next guy, it has proven valuable to be able to trade backups too throughout the years. It is an undeniable fact. David Garrard has been better than Fitz, had a slightly better season than Fitz did, is owed big money, but when you have a chance to take a QB you need to take it, the Jags did.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I know that, but I am praying to every God out there that we get Kevin Kolb. Otherwise I might as well shave my head because I know I will be pulling my hair out.

I understand he slated to be the starter, it is very clear.
This way of thinking is very suspect to me.

What has Kevin Kolb shown you in particular on a much better team with more weapons, that he would be an improvement over Fitz?

I just don't see it. His stat lines and play I have witnessed on the field have not overly impressed me at all.

[PTI]

This way of thinking is very suspect to me.

What has Kevin Kolb shown you in particular on a much better team with more weapons, that he would be an improvement over Fitz?

I just don't see it. His stat lines and play I have witnessed on the field have not overly impressed me at all.

Depends what the deal would be for. I would prefer it to not be a 1st round pick.

I am not sure how once can not say Kolb would be an upgrade. He was much more highly regarded then Fitz, was Philly's first pick in the draft (and Philly regarded as a good drafting team), was regarded by a team with a good offense to have enough faith in him to dump McNabb and start over Vick. Fitz could not beat out Trent Edwards twice. Kolb has a better arm. I have seen some good things and some bad things from him, but I have not seen a lot of things and I believe he can be good if given the chance. I have seen enough of Fitz to know this is as good as it is going to get and it is not that good at all. Like I said, you need to try and get better. If you fail, well, you tried. If we can get him for a 2nd I would do it in a second.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Depends what the deal would be for. I would prefer it to not be a 1st round pick.

I am not sure how once can not say Kolb would be an upgrade. He was much more highly regarded then Fitz, was Philly's first pick in the draft (and Philly regarded as a good drafting team), was regarded by a team with a good offense to have enough faith in him to dump McNabb and start over Vick. Fitz could not beat out Trent Edwards twice. Kolb has a better arm. I have seen some good things and some bad things from him, but I have not seen a lot of things and I believe he can be good if given the chance. I have seen enough of Fitz to know this is as good as it is going to get and it is not that good at all. Like I said, you need to try and get better. If you fail, well, you tried. If we can get him for a 2nd I would do it in a second.
How could one say Kolb IS an upgrade? Who cares who was more touted or not? I am talking about on the field play. Your scenarios over who beat who out mean absolutely nothing......

[justasportsfan]

Yes it is. They had a decent QB in Pennington who led them to the playoffs several times, Bills do not have a decent QB. Jets were not developing a team. They had a team and they had a QB they viewed as a franchise QB already in 2006. If you cannot see that you are just stupid.

IN 2006 Chad nos were 3352 yds 17 TDs and 16 INTs

Fitz in his first year under Gailey playing 13 games had 3000 yards 25 TDS and 15 INT.

I say Fitz had a better year last year than Chads 2006 nos with Fitz being in a worse situation and you're telling me that one was decent and the other isn't when the FACTS side with Fitz?

If you cannot see that YOU are just dumber than stupid.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Kolb has 2082 career yards 11 tds and 14 INTs.. He has a 73.2 QB rating.

Fitz has 7104 career yards 44 tds and 42 INTs.. He has a 73 QB rating

Fitz is only 2 years older mind you and accumulated his stats on terrible teams.

[PTI]

IN 2006 Chad nos were 3352 yds 17 TDs and 16 INTs

Fitz in his first year under Gailey playing 13 games had 3000 yards 25 TDS and 15 INT.

I say Fitz had a better year last year than Chads 2006 nos with Fitz being in a worse situation and you're telling me that one was decent and the other isn't when the FACTS side with Fitz?

If you cannot see that YOU are just dumber than stupid.

They still made the playoffs and they still determined to win bigger they needed to be better. They kept building the lines and changed to Favre and then changed to Sanchez.

Whatever about numbers, that Jets team was 10-6 and this Bills team was 4-12. Say what you want about better years, have fun with that, I would rather have playoffs and a team that in fact made the playoffs and was still looking to improve.

[PTI]

Kolb has 2082 career yards 11 tds and 14 INTs.. He has a 73.2 QB rating.

Fitz has 7104 career yards 44 tds and 42 INTs.. He has a 73 QB rating

Fitz is only 2 years older mind you and accumulated his stats on terrible teams.

Fitz has had extended QB starting play each of the last 3 seasons, he has the 20th most starts in the last 3 years of all QBs. Fitz has almost 40 starts. Kolb has 7 and no real extended starting QB play. I understand your points, but Kolb does not have the volume play in comparison to that of Fitz. It would be risky, without a doubt, but I have some trust that Philly knew what they were doing in drafting him and coaching him.

[justasportsfan]

They still made the playoffs and they still determined to win bigger they needed to be better. They kept building the lines and changed to Favre and then changed to Sanchez.

Whatever about numbers, that Jets team was 10-6 and this Bills team was 4-12. Say what you want about better years, have fun with that, I would rather have playoffs and a team that in fact made the playoffs and was still looking to improve.

so you're telling me they made playoffs DESPITE Chad having crappier nos. than Fitz ?

they made 10-4 because they had a better team playing around Chad and not because they had a better qb as the FACTS show.

Better years? You're the one who brought up 06 and called him a franchise qb. Are you backtracking now because the FACTS does not support your opinion?

[stuckincincy]

Fitz has had extended QB starting play each of the last 3 seasons, he has the 20th most starts in the last 3 years of all QBs. Fitz has almost 40 starts. Kolb has 7 and no real extended starting QB play. I understand your points, but Kolb does not have the volume play in comparison to that of Fitz. It would be risky, without a doubt, but I have some trust that Philly knew what they were doing in drafting him and coaching him.

OK.

It's Wednesday, May 4, 2011. Call up the Bills' FO and tell them how to solve their Ryan Fitzpatrick problem.

Tell us what solution you proffered.

Please report back. Tomorrow.

[PTI]

so you're telling me they made playoffs DESPITE Chad having crappier nos. than Fitz ?

they made 10-4 because they had a better team playing around Chad and not because they had a better qb as the FACTS show.

Better years? You're the one who brought up 06 and called him a franchise qb. Are you backtracking now because the FACTS does not support your opinion?
Pennington was the Jets fracnshise QB, without a doubt. He was a first round draft pick and led the Jets to the playoffs 3 times and Miami once to the playoffs. He was a far superior QB than Fitz ever was. Not sure why you are changing what this was about. The argument was that someone said we should be like the Jets and build the lines and then plug in a QB. That is not what happened with the Jets. They had a QB in Pennington, and they drafted OL to help protect him over several years, but during that time, they had a chance to get Favre, and took it and dumped Pennington. They then had a chance to take Sanchez, and they did. This was not a plug in a QB situation.

I did not bring up 2006 Jets first. I have nothing to back track from. I don't care if Pennington has worse numbers then Fitz, they won 10 games, he had a better season. There is a very small chance you are college educated and do anything with your brain for work.

[PTI]

OK.

It's Wednesday, May 4, 2011. Call up the Bills' FO and tell them how to solve their Ryan Fitzpatrick problem.

Tell us what solution you proffered.

Please report back.

I didn't start this thread, bud. It was just about a call out to me, and simply complied, and I have offered stats and ideas of to which people have been real jerks to me about. I have tried to be cordial but it is hard when people do not have the ability to think with logic and reason . I have also stated that I do believe Fitz will be the day 1 starter too.

[justasportsfan]

Pennington was the Jets fracnshise QB, without a doubt. He was a first round draft pick and led the Jets to the playoffs 3 times and Miami once to the playoffs. He was a far superior QB than Fitz ever was. Not sure why you are changing what this was about. The argument was that someone said we should be like the Jets and build the lines and then plug in a QB. That is not what happened with the Jets. They had a QB in Pennington, and they drafted OL to help protect him over several years, but during that time, they had a chance to get Favre, and took it and dumped Pennington. They then had a chance to take Sanchez, and they did. This was not a plug in a QB situation.

I did not bring up 2006 Jets first. I have nothing to back track from. I don't care if Pennington has worse numbers then Fitz, they won 10 games, he had a better season. There is a very small chance you are college educated and do anything with your brain or work.


Of course you don't care that Fitz had better nos. because his nos. prove your opinion is wrong.

With that logic, you're telling me that Sanchez is a better qb than Peyton because they had a better record and the jets made it further than the colts.

[stuckincincy]

I didn't start this thread, bud. It was just about a call out to me, and simply complied, and I have offered stats and ideas of to which people have been real jerks to me about. I have tried to be cordial but it is hard when people do not have the ability to think with logic and reason . I have also stated that I do believe Fitz will be the day 1 starter too.


You like to say that. But happy to dive in, eh? Offer bogus stats, then back peddle when called out.

Have you considered seeking employment with the current White House press staff?

[PTI]

You like to say that. But happy to dive in, eh? Offer bogus stats, then back peddle when called out.

Have you considered seeking employment with the current White House press staff?
Did not offer bogus stats once. I said I made a mistake in saying Bengals made the playoffs the year before Fitz played a lot, when in fact the Bengals made the playoffs the year after he left. That was it. There is no back peddle necessary, I made a mistake. You are the excuse maker for Fitz blaming injuries. Not me.

Name one bogus stat I put here. You will not be able to find one. You are a poop thrower and a liar, it is painfully clear. Back your accusation up or shut up.

[mikemac2001]

guys you are just feeding the troll

[PTI]

guys you are just feeding the troll

No troll here pal. I bleed Buffalo Bills and Sabres, I just can't wait until we get a championship and believe the Bills need a better QB and just want the process ASAP.

[mikemac2001]

No troll here pal. I bleed Buffalo Bills and Sabres, I just can't wait until we get a championship and believe the Bills need a better QB and just want the process ASAP.


you can be a fan and still troll a message board.

im done talking to you about the subject

[justasportsfan]

No troll here pal. I bleed Buffalo Bills and Sabres, I just can't wait until we get a championship and believe the Bills need a better QB and just want the process ASAP.


we're all with you. We need a franchise qb. Guess we only disagree that Fitz is not as bad as you make him out to be and the time to fill all the holes in 2 seasons.

[PTI]

you can be a fan and still troll a message board.

im done talking to you about the subject

Sounds a lot more like you are the troll, coming into a thread and saying something bad about a person you have had no interaction with and not entering into any kind of a debate with them either. Better to say nothing at all then something out of the blue bad at someone. Just makes yourself look foolish really. Hope it made you feel better to try and discredit me for no reason at all.

[stuckincincy]

Did not offer bogus stats once. I said I made a mistake in saying Bengals made the playoffs the year before Fitz played a lot, when in fact the Bengals made the playoffs the year after he left. That was it. There is no back peddle necessary, I made a mistake. You are the excuse maker for Fitz blaming injuries. Not me.

Name one bogus stat I put here. You will not be able to find one. You are a poop thrower and a liar, it is painfully clear. Back your accusation up or shut up.

Calm down, my friend.

You are working yourself up out of proportion. Log off and post tomorrow - I'll be happy to resume the conversation.

:shake:

[psubills62]

Yeah, this is obviously not a crusade.

[Syderick]

But now Fitzpatrick has a chance to work this off season as a starter.

[PTI]

But now Fitzpatrick has a chance to work this off season as a starter.

What off season? Hope they get a deal done or there will be training camp.

[Syderick]

What off season? Hope they get a deal done or there will be training camp.

He's still been practicing with his teammates.

[SquishDaFish]

Unreal :lol: :crazy:

[stuckincincy]

Unreal :lol: :crazy:

Yep. All I can say is :awm:

[TigerJ]

I like certain things about him, but I think he has limited upside, and his limits will become limits for team improvement if he remains the Bills QB. I think the Bills may be able to have a winning season with Fitz at QB, and may even make the playoffs. I don't see them becoming an elite or dominating team with Fitz at QB, and that of course is the name of the game if you want eany shot at the Super Bowl. I wouldn't mind a bit if he proves me wrong though.

[Spiderweb]

Fitz played in much of 2009 as QB too. In 2010, when he played even more, the Bills moved up 1 freaking spot in offense. It is a complete exaggeration to say the offense improved. The Bills scored over 19 points just 4 freaking times and the average if 17.7 sucks. Even if you want to say look at the Fitz games, they might be near 20 a game, but still, the inconsistency is proven by SCORING OVER 19 POINTS JUST 4 TIMES. Fitz sucks, every number you look at tells us that.

In the comparison, it was said the offense improved by going to Fitz after suffering with the disastrous offensive output under Edwards. Can't anyone simply objectively note this without being accused of "exaggeration", because it's not.

Would we like production from our QB to match Peyton Manning's? Sure we would but we needed Defensive help first and foremost and that drove our draft (along with a relatively weak QB class). Like Gailey said, they would have loved to grab the top 9 guys in the draft, but other teams get to pick too.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

PTI has a right to voice his opinion as long as it is done respectfuly... i dont see the need to jump him in a dark ally

[justasportsfan]

PTI has a right to voice his opinion as long as it is done respectfuly... i dont see the need to jump him in a dark ally


I agree. In the end, he's a bills fan with a different opinion.

[trapezeus]

the wanting kevin kolb because he's more highly regarded is a weak argument.

brian brohm was drafted with higher regard than fitz. does that make him better?

did you watch him play vs. atlanta?

[PTI]

the wanting kevin kolb because he's more highly regarded is a weak argument.

brian brohm was drafted with higher regard than fitz. does that make him better?

did you watch him play vs. atlanta?
Highly regarded by a good team, please add that. That is why Brohm was a very small risk to take. It was an eyebrow raiser when a team that got Favre, developed players in the recent past like Aaron Brooks, Hassleback, Brunell, Rodgers, and potentially matt Flynn (and they made us give them a pick for Nall) dumped Brohm.

Like I said, highly regarded by a good team, and the market is there, Bills would not be the only team wanting him, like there were plenty of teams wanting Matt Schaub when he was traded. If he fails, he fails, I mean, Fitz is bottom tear guy to begin with. Not much further down to hit the bottom of the barrel.

BTW, Brohm has been bad the 2 times given a chance. I am convinced he played the last game against the Jets as a mercy sitting for Fitz so the lasting memory for Bills fans is how awful Brohm is in comparison and so people try and forget that Fitz may have played even worse the week before against the Patriots.

[psubills62]

Highly regarded by a good team, please add that....

Like I said, highly regarded by a good team...
Which good team holds Kolb in high regard, exactly? The one that's trading him away? Or the Cardinals, who are likely to trade for him?

[PTI]

Which good team holds Kolb in high regard, exactly? The one that's trading him away? Or the Cardinals, who are likely to trade for him?

The team that drafted him that is about to get a pick or picks back for drafting and developing him. Smart move. That is what good teams do. Teams that want him? Many media guys think San Fran is a kevin Kolb away from hosting a home playoff game. Cardinals could win that division with him too. Dolphins? They could compete in the AFC East with him. The Bills? Yes, Bills could be a much more competitive team with him. Redskins too,m but they are not getting a Philly cast off QB 2 years in a row.

I understand trading for Kolb is risky, but the Bills won 4 games last year, how is not worth a risk to take?

[psubills62]

The team that drafted him that is about to get a pick or picks back for drafting and developing him. Smart move. That is what good teams do. Teams that want him? Many media guys think San Fran is a kevin Kolb away from hosting a home playoff game. Cardinals could win that division with him too. Dolphins? They could compete in the AFC East with him. The Bills? Yes, Bills could be a much more competitive team with him. Redskins too,m but they are not getting a Philly cast off QB 2 years in a row.

I understand trading for Kolb is risky, but the Bills won 4 games last year, how is not worth a risk to take?
So basically this is your logic: people say team X could do well with Kolb, thus team X holds him in high esteem. Not all analysts think Kolb is that great. I've seen several reports discussing his poor passing when being blitzed, etc. Just because talking heads like a guy doesn't mean squat. Last I checked, talking heads were raving about EVERY quarterback in the 2011 draft. What are the chances that all of those guys turn out great?

And the Eagles are so enamored with him that they're willing to ship him off, despite having a guy that can be very prone to injury as a starter? Come on.

[PTI]

So basically this is your logic: people say team X could do well with Kolb, thus team X holds him in high esteem. Not all analysts think Kolb is that great. I've seen several reports discussing his poor passing when being blitzed, etc. Just because talking heads like a guy doesn't mean squat. Last I checked, talking heads were raving about EVERY quarterback in the 2011 draft. What are the chances that all of those guys turn out great?

And the Eagles are so enamored with him that they're willing to ship him off, despite having a guy that can be very prone to injury as a starter? Come on.

There is a salary cap in the NFL if you have not heard and they like the development of Mike Kafka. I think the Eagles would have to sign some other veteran QB if they traded him though. Everyone comes with a price man.

[psubills62]

There is a salary cap in the NFL if you have not heard and they like the development of Mike Kafka. I think the Eagles would have to sign some other veteran QB if they traded him though. Everyone comes with a price man.
There wasn't a salary cap this past year and so far, it's very possible there won't be one this coming year either. You really think salary is the reason they're trading Kolb? Hahaha, I'd love to see anybody that shares that opinion.

So again...how exactly is he highly regarded by a good team? I haven't seen anything to show that he is. You seemed to make that an extra special point in the post I replied to, but haven't shown any evidence to support that statement.

[Mr. Pink]

There wasn't a salary cap this past year and so far, it's very possible there won't be one this coming year either. You really think salary is the reason they're trading Kolb? Hahaha, I'd love to see anybody that shares that opinion.

So again...how exactly is he highly regarded by a good team? I haven't seen anything to show that he is. You seemed to make that an extra special point in the post I replied to, but haven't shown any evidence to support that statement.


Here's the reason the Eagles are looking to trade Kolb.

He's going to be a free agent after the 2011* season.

There is no chance Kolb will resign to stay in Philly to be a backup.

You're right that it has nothing to do with salary, Kolb is only scheduled to make 1.4 million.


*assumes there will be a 2011 season

[PTI]

There wasn't a salary cap this past year and so far, it's very possible there won't be one this coming year either. You really think salary is the reason they're trading Kolb? Hahaha, I'd love to see anybody that shares that opinion.

So again...how exactly is he highly regarded by a good team? I haven't seen anything to show that he is. You seemed to make that an extra special point in the post I replied to, but haven't shown any evidence to support that statement.
Everything is money, time is money, and he is a free agent after this season, he would be gone and they would get nothing for their investment. That is the logical thing and is what good teams do. Heck, Boston Celtics may have made a mistake trading Kendrick Perkins, but they had to, they needed to get something for him. Not sure how you don't understand this.

You seem smart enough but not sure how you don't get it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/632573-2011-nfl-draft-buzz-why-the-philadelphia-eagles-need-to-trade-kevin-kolb

[psubills62]

Everything is money, time is money, and he is a free agent after this season, he would be gone and they would get nothing for their investment. That is the logical thing and is what good teams do. Heck, Boston Celtics may have made a mistake trading Kendrick Perkins, but they had to, they needed to get something for him. Not sure how you don't understand this.

You seem smart enough but not sure how you don't get it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/632573-2011-nfl-draft-buzz-why-the-philadelphia-eagles-need-to-trade-kevin-kolb

The reason you think I don't get it is because I get it - but you changed your argument. You said, and I quote "There is a salary cap in the NFL if you have not heard..." That article says nothing about salary, and as FTY said, Kolb's salary is extremely low, even for a backup.

And yes, I do realize that they need to get something for Kolb while they can. But again...saying they need to get something for him while they can still isn't evidence that they are enamored with him. The Colts have been enamored with Peyton Manning for years, but aren't working to get something for him while they can.

I'm sure you'll argue that they've got a great starting QB in Vick. Fine...but the Eagles have been trying to trade Kolb for well before Vick broke out. They were willing to trade either Kolb or McNabb the previous offseason. Considering how McNabb looked, I'm not sure that says much about Kolb.