Nix and company don't really think Fitzy is the long term answer either

[Mad Max]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15025300/bills-passed-on-a-quarterback-and-still-aced-the-draft




First round
At the third spot, the Bills were ideally situated to take a quarterback or one of the top three defensive players -- linebacker Von Miller, defensive tackle Marcell Dareus or cornerback Patrick Peterson. When Carolina opened by taking Cam Newton, and Denver followed by picking Miller, Buffalo's decision was a snap. It took Dareus, the wise and necessary choice for a club that ranked 32nd against the run.
Nix: "We had opportunities to trade out here, with many calls -- eight or 10 -- from people wanting to move up. But we're getting to the point [where we don't do that]. It's been two years now, and if it keeps going this way people are going to quit calling because our answer is, 'No.' My experience has always been if you have a guy in mind and say, 'Oh, yeah, we can get him at this pick so we'll move back,' inevitably he is gone. It happened more times than one. So we're inclined not to do it. Now, did we consider a quarterback here? Yes, we did. But we did our work as well as we could on every quarterback, and we passed.

You don't "consider" drafting a QB at #3 unless you feel you need a significant upgrade over the guy that's there.



Second round Again, the temptation was there to jump for a quarterback. Most observers figured Cincinnati would take one with the 35th pick, so, at 34, Buffalo was perfectly set up to beat the Bengals to the next quarterback on the board or to trade the choice to someone who would. Only it didn't, passing on both options. Instead, it chose Texas cornerback Aaron Williams, and with cornerbacks Ashton Youboty and Drayton Florence scheduled to become free agents, Leodis McKelvin underwhelming and Terrence McGee coming off two injury-plagued seasons, it's easy to see why.



Nix: "Again, we fielded trade offers, but, as I said earlier, we're just not inclined to do that. The situation with the quarterback was the same as it was in the first round. Just to take a guy ... and not that these are just 'guys' because we had them at the Senior Bowl, so our staff was around them all week and really got to know them ... but had we thought there was one who could come in and be our quarterback we might have done it. Instead, we felt like we had greater needs and that we could get more of an immediate impact rather than looking down the road for a quarterback .......

This tells me two things: 1.) That they most certainly want to upgrade Fitzy 2.) They felt much like myself (and at least a few others here) that this crop of QBs was mediocre and there was no reason to grab one just to say we did...why get another Edwards? Losman? Hold your water and wait until 2012..we will certainly draft a QB there.

I feel as good about what Nix and the organization didn't do in this draft as what they did do.

[Novacane]

I don't like that he's not inclined to trade down. I would not have moved out of 3 once
MD fell to us but why not move out of 34? Depending on how far we moved down we still could have gotten Williams and if not there were a lot of good players available.

[Mad Max]

I don't like that he's not inclined to trade down. I would not have moved out of 3 once
MD fell to us but why not move out of 34? Depending on how far we moved down we still could have gotten Williams and if not there were a lot of good players available.

Ya that is a bit of a rigid philosophy. It appears as if they're locked in on guys...if that guy is available they're not risking not getting him.

[cgbm]

i like nix, hes got good ideas and is moving the right way.

i agree that we were smart to not take a qb at 3 THIS year. we got the best player on the board at that point.

nix says that he doesnt think we will be picking this high again for a wile. if thats the case then we wont be in position to get the qb we want next year either. and you guys will be saying the same thing "dont reach"

so that leaves us one option. F.A...... right?

with that said.....

who?

[Beebe's Kid]

I am having trouble seeing how Nix saying that they considered a QB, but felt the Bills had bigger areas of need is evidence the team doesn't like Fitz.

We thought about a QB in the first...but didn't. We thought about it in the 2nd...but didn't... Oh, I get it now.

[Mr. Miyagi]

:deadhorse:

[mysticsoto]

I don't like that he's not inclined to trade down. I would not have moved out of 3 once
MD fell to us but why not move out of 34? Depending on how far we moved down we still could have gotten Williams and if not there were a lot of good players available.

If he knows what he wants, let him go after it. It's not like we have great players on our roster now. We had 9 picks in this year's draft. We don't need 20 picks. We need the right players that will work for the system and he got some players that he coached and got to know. I think he is happy and I think we should be too.

[cgbm]

If he knows what he wants, let him go after it. It's not like we have great players on our roster now. We had 9 picks in this year's draft. We don't need 20 picks. We need the right players that will work for the system and he got some players that he coached and got to know. I think he is happy and I think we should be too.

your right.

[TrEd FTW]

This isn't anything new. No one with a brain thinks Fitz is anything more than a stopgap.

[DrGraves]

i dont think anyone thinks he is the long term answer? what was he going to say no we didnt consider a QB at all?

[ublinkwescore]

I would like to see what fitz can do with a D that can get off the field though and against a D that is tired across from him.

[PTI]

I hate giving a season away. Especially since it has been so long since the Bills have had some success. Basically they said the Bills will suck on offense, but that's OK.

[tcb5033]

I hate giving a season away. Especially since it has been so long since the Bills have had some success. Basically they said the Bills will suck on offense, but that's OK.

Hey, you win some you lose some. Unless you're the Bills in which case you perennially lose most and eek out a couple wins.

In reality, our solution to QB was not in this draft so we bulked up where we needed to most help - and that's it. We're not winning the superbowl next season but we are building a foundation to get there later IMO.

[ServoBillieves]

Amish Rifle + Fred Jackson + CJ Spiller + Lee Evans + Stevie Johnson + Roscoe Parrish + Nelson + ... meh, I think he has plenty of options to lead this offense in the right direction.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I am beginning to wonder if certain people on this board feel that if this team drafted a quarterback this team is going to the Super Bowl. Now that they didn't draft a quarterback, Fitz is going to be the quarterback for the next 10 years and they are doomed.

[X-Era]

Amish Rifle + Fred Jackson + CJ Spiller + Lee Evans + Stevie Johnson + Roscoe Parrish + Nelson + ... meh, I think he has plenty of options to lead this offense in the right direction.He does. And the offensive line will be better as well IMO. I simply think his limitations will end up being the limitations on where this team can go.

[alohabillsfan]

He does. And the offensive line will be better as well IMO. I simply think his limitations will end up being the limitations on where this team can go.


Exactly what are his limitations?

[Bill Cody]

Basically they said the Bills will suck on offense, but that's OK.

link?

[X-Era]

Exactly what are his limitations?Do we want to kick the dead horse or not?

To answer your question: The ability to win a few games to get us to the playoffs DESPITE the team. Dilfer did it BECAUSE of the team.

My theory is that the Bills may never get a defense good enough to win with a mediocre QB. At this point Fitz is mediocre IMO. Since he's our starter, I hope he becomes more, but I think it's a bit unlikely.

[mysticsoto]

I hate giving a season away. Especially since it has been so long since the Bills have had some success. Basically they said the Bills will suck on offense, but that's OK.

And if we had gotten a QB, would the team be playoff bound then? QBs take awhile to learn the ropes - it's the most difficult position in the NFL. So you would condemn us to another poor year to take a QB that the Bills might not even like so much? And then our defense would suck and you'd be complaining that they didn't do enough on defense.

If, on the other hand, we improve the defense dramatically with players at every position, the defense can improve off the bat. Yeah, the offense didn't get much work, but next year we can grab probably the 2nd best QB in the draft vs this year grabbing the 6th best or lower after rd 1 - and in a weak QB class at that.

[Dr. Who]

I don't know anyone who wanted a qb in this draft who thought that adding a rookie qb was going to equate to the playoffs. My thinking was that you draft a qb this year so he can sit and learn while we have an adequate qb in Fitz. It's certainly a rational alternative to go heavy on the D and I am very pleased with our draft. I will be less pleased if we don't get a quality qb in the first round next year.

[ddaryl]

NEWS FLASH: nobody thinks Fitz is the long term answer... but many are willing to let him be the short term answer while we fix the rest of the team around the QB position.

WIll get a QB when the situation dictates it's worth grabbing one.... Dareus was too good a prospect to passup and reach for a maybe at the QB position

[trapezeus]

i think when you are 4-12, every position is considered to be upgraded.

like Ddaryl said, no one thinks fitz is the long term answer. Are the bills better with two mediocre QB's playing and splitting time, etc? or is the team going to get better with a much more talented QB and a mediocre QB behind him?

i think it's the latter. and if you can't get that to be the case, you probably are better, letting fitz run the team until he is hurt or the season is over. he'll get you the 5-11 season that this team looks like it will put up (based on last years results) and they'll be picking top ten, hopefully without a lot of defensive needs, and an OT and QB and LB away from making a playoff run.

that lets you trade up if need be to get the best of the best QBs.

That's how i look at next year.

[Jeff1220]

Idk if this is what they have in mind, but Pittsburgh was built in a similar way. They fixed up the D and the running game, then added the QB last. Before Rothlisberger, they were playing w/Tommy Maddox and made the playoffs.

[OpIv37]

I'm still not 100% sold on Nix, but I have to admit that he's growing on me.

I hated the way the Lynch/Spiller situation was handled last year, and I hated the lack of results from FA. But I like the Dareus pick, I like that we didn't reach for a QB even though Nix has acknowledged the need for one, and I like that Modrak got the boot.

I'll have some confidence in Nix if Spiller, Carrington and Troup improve this year and if this year's draft class comes through.

[trapezeus]

I'm still not 100% sold on Nix, but I have to admit that he's growing on me.

I hated the way the Lynch/Spiller situation was handled last year, and I hated the lack of results from FA. But I like the Dareus pick, I like that we didn't reach for a QB even though Nix has acknowledged the need for one, and I like that Modrak got the boot.

I'll have some confidence in Nix if Spiller, Carrington and Troup improve this year and if this year's draft class comes through.

Exactly. if spiller gets 50% of the snaps or just looks useful and troup and carrington step it up, i'll be really excited about this year's draft class.

don't forget moats by the by. the bills front 7, if everyone pans out, could be pretty good and a unit for 4-5 years based on his drafting.

[PTI]

And if we had gotten a QB, would the team be playoff bound then? QBs take awhile to learn the ropes - it's the most difficult position in the NFL. So you would condemn us to another poor year to take a QB that the Bills might not even like so much? And then our defense would suck and you'd be complaining that they didn't do enough on defense.

If, on the other hand, we improve the defense dramatically with players at every position, the defense can improve off the bat. Yeah, the offense didn't get much work, but next year we can grab probably the 2nd best QB in the draft vs this year grabbing the 6th best or lower after rd 1 - and in a weak QB class at that.
Just not true. The most recently drafted QBs have all found early success. Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford, and jury is out on often injured Stafford. Nothing changes a culture like belief in a QB.

[PTI]

NEWS FLASH: Some of use are just dead sick of watching horrible QB play, including that of Fitz, and would like it to be addressed NOW. Nothing changes a team more than having a good QB. It is understood Fitz is the QB, but he is in reality a mediocre backup QB that our guys will throw out there to start again. Just not fun losing.

[psubills62]

I'm still not 100% sold on Nix, but I have to admit that he's growing on me.

I hated the way the Lynch/Spiller situation was handled last year, and I hated the lack of results from FA. But I like the Dareus pick, I like that we didn't reach for a QB even though Nix has acknowledged the need for one, and I like that Modrak got the boot.

I'll have some confidence in Nix if Spiller, Carrington and Troup improve this year and if this year's draft class comes through.
Completely agree with you here, Op. I want to trust Nix/Gailey, but they've made some questionable decisions (don't forget Cornell Green).

Carrington/Troup will be very interesting to me this year. As I've said many times lately, 3-4 DL often take at least a year to become worth much of anything. But if they do make the jump, it's usually a big one. I'll be watching them as much as possible to see how they are developing.

However, this year won't be the end-all, be-all for my opinion of Nix and Gailey. I don't think they can fully be judged until they pick a QB. Also, I'm not sure how much this year should count. No offseason workouts, probably no TC, etc. It's hard to develop young guys that way and we have to hope they picked guys who are self-motivated and will work out a lot during the offseason.

[cgbm]

Idk if this is what they have in mind, but Pittsburgh was built in a similar way. They fixed up the D and the running game, then added the QB last. Before Rothlisberger, they were playing w/Tommy Maddox and made the playoffs.

i like what you are saying but thats a bad example. the steelers have had a bad ass defense since the 70's. so i wouldnt say they beefed up their d. then got a qb. they already had the d

[psubills62]

NEWS FLASH: Some of use are just dead sick of watching horrible QB play, including that of Fitz, and would like it to be addressed NOW. Nothing changes a team more than having a good QB. It is understood Fitz is the QB, but he is in reality a mediocre backup QB that our guys will throw out there to start again. Just not fun losing. News Flash? We know, we understand. This is exactly what Bedard's thread was about. You've said it a million times...most people simply disagree with you on certain things, particularly Fitz's level of competency.

I think saying "Abraham Lincoln was killed" is more of a news flash than yours is.

[mikemac2001]

News flash

No qb was worth taken at our picks

Fix the d get one next year

[mysticsoto]

Just not true. The most recently drafted QBs have all found early success. Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford, and jury is out on often injured Stafford. Nothing changes a culture like belief in a QB.

Out of how many that didn't? What does that "success percentage" say then?

[justasportsfan]

NEWS FLASH: Some of use are just dead sick of watching horrible QB play, including that of Fitz, and would like it to be addressed NOW. Nothing changes a team more than having a good QB. It is understood Fitz is the QB, but he is in reality a mediocre backup QB that our guys will throw out there to start again. Just not fun losing.


we want everything addressed now but using Kolb who is unproven is not exactly a good example to use when trying to address it NOW.

[trapezeus]

PTI, those qb's you mentioned above that had early success and a change of QB changed the franchise, also didn't have a QB they liked or trusted.

For better or for worse, Fitz is a respected member of the team. they believe in him.

Ryan is the only guy who came in to a bad team and turned it around almost by himself. but flacco, stafford, etc were on teams whwere the QB play previously was horrible and a source of friction on the team if i recall.

fitz's leadership isn't questioned.

[acehole]

This is the most best way to build a team....I have been saying it for years...Build D ...build ...o line and skill players some time.. give a young qb a chance...Chargers come to mind as does Jets... c

Vince
Idk if this is what they have in mind, but Pittsburgh was built in a similar way. They fixed up the D and the running game, then added the QB last. Before Rothlisberger, they were playing w/Tommy Maddox and made the playoffs.

[cgbm]

This is the most best way to build a team....I have been saying it for years...Build D ...build ...o line and skill players some time.. give a young qb a chance...Chargers come to mind as does Jets... c

Vince

both the chargers and jets had good qb's but then got rid of them to groom a younger guy.

chargers had brees, jets had pennington (when he was good)

[better days]

Just not true. The most recently drafted QBs have all found early success. Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford, and jury is out on often injured Stafford. Nothing changes a culture like belief in a QB.

I agree those guys have been successful but they were not the most recently drafted QB's except for Bradford. The rest of the most recently drafted would be Tebow, Clausen, McCoy, Pike, Skelton.......... Not all that much early success there.

[PTI]

PTI, those qb's you mentioned above that had early success and a change of QB changed the franchise, also didn't have a QB they liked or trusted.

For better or for worse, Fitz is a respected member of the team. they believe in him.

Ryan is the only guy who came in to a bad team and turned it around almost by himself. but flacco, stafford, etc were on teams whwere the QB play previously was horrible and a source of friction on the team if i recall.

fitz's leadership isn't questioned.

Flacco was not supposed to play, he was going to sit his whole first season. Boller got hurt, and then Troy Smith, who they just drafted, got hurt too. Plus, he did not play big time college football, he was most certainly thrust into a leadership roll. Many teammates wanted Smith to be the guy when he returned but Flacco would not leave the field. Kyle Boller's career numbers are almost the same as Fitz's, and he was shown the door. They tried with Smith, and then hit on Flacco, what are the Bills doing? Good teams fail too, but you have to make the change. Why not show Fitz the door? I would say Braford did a lot. They won 6 total games the previous 3 seasons, 3 wins, 2 wins, then 1 win, and they won 7 with him. That is what true trust in a QB can bring a team.

[PTI]

both the chargers and jets had good qb's but then got rid of them to groom a younger guy.

chargers had brees, jets had pennington (when he was good)

That is what people don't realize, they are force fed that the Jets had a good defense and plugged in Sanchez, just not true at all. They started drafting those good OLINE guys to protect Pennington, who ledt them to the playoffs 3 times, not for 3 years down the line with a year of Favre in between. Jets saw a chance to get better at QB, they took it with Favre, they failed, and re-loaded with Sanchez, of whom they had no choice to trade up for or else Kellen Clemens would be the starter.

[PTI]

I agree those guys have been successful but they were not the most recently drafted QB's except for Bradford. The rest of the most recently drafted would be Tebow, Clausen, McCoy, Pike, Skelton.......... Not all that much early success there.

Only guy in discussion you list is Tebow, who we all know was way overdrafted and was take like pick 25. We are talking about high draft picks. No one expects many guys outside the first or second round to have success.

About McCoy, he is the Browns #1 QB, how is that a failure? We will see what he does, but he already earned the starting job. As for Pike and Skelton, please, late round picks, just silly to even bring up. Claussen, he is on the worst team in football. He was given 1 season to try and play, he is by no means done judging yet. Bradford was the guy last year and he was a home run. Heck, I would trade a 3rd for Claussen and let him play over Fitz. We have already seen the best of Fitz, his ceiling is 6 wins.

[justasportsfan]

That is what people don't realize, they are force fed that the Jets had a good defense and plugged in Sanchez, just not true at all.
that is true. Rex Ryan was interviewed yesterday and thats exactly what he said. He took a 22nd ranked D and got it up to no.1 and but made sure than the run game was the strongest part of the O first.

You can't tell me that the jets can't be as successful with Fitz as long as he has the same supporting cast that Sanchez has especially when Fitz had better nos. with a worse cast.

While Sanchez is horrible 80% of time like you said, Fitz was 50% with a crappier team.

[better days]

That is what people don't realize, they are force fed that the Jets had a good defense and plugged in Sanchez, just not true at all. They started drafting those good OLINE guys to protect Pennington, who ledt them to the playoffs 3 times, not for 3 years down the line with a year of Favre in between. Jets saw a chance to get better at QB, they took it with Favre, they failed, and re-loaded with Sanchez, of whom they had no choice to trade up for or else Kellen Clemens would be the starter.

In other words you agree it is better to upgrade the team than to draft a QB without a team in place first because the Jets did just that.

[Bill Cody]

Fitz > Clausen

[PTI]

In other words you agree it is better to upgrade the team than to draft a QB without a team in place first because the Jets did just that.

You better be getting better at QB regardless is what I said. Jets had playoff QB, he won playoff games in Pennington, they said bye bye and took HOF QB in Favre, didn't work, went all in for Sanchez. You really don't understand what you read, do you? During that whole time, they happened to hit on their OL picks, that they initially were taking to block for Pennington.

Of course the Bills need to upgrade, we need to hope they hit on the players this year, and that they actually play, unlike last year.

[ddaryl]

NEWS FLASH: Some of use are just dead sick of watching horrible QB play, including that of Fitz, and would like it to be addressed NOW. Nothing changes a team more than having a good QB. It is understood Fitz is the QB, but he is in reality a mediocre backup QB that our guys will throw out there to start again. Just not fun losing.

Yeah lets give up on an almost sure fire contributor to our woeful D and reach for a big maybe at the QB position...

and Fitz has already gone beyond mediocre backup... In fact if Fitz was to be our backup we'd have one of the better backups in the league. Fitz right now is a mediocre starter. teams have proven to win with mediocre starters, and some these same teams have later added the franchise QB after fixing other elements of the team and gone on to win it all...

Bottom line is you want to erase 10+ years of piss poor football management with a franchise QB.... this team needs a steady calculated rebuild to just get a dependable core in place. Yes it's painful... but that's the deal when you screw the pooch for over 10 years

and if we lose big in 2011 then were gonna have a shot at the QB's in 2012 and hopefully they will show more promise then the weak ass class of 2011. and if there is no 2011 season then we're in even better shape to take a shot at franchise arm in 2012....

nothing but positives in my book.... :surf:

[PTI]

Fitz > Clausen

This is just dumb to say. One guy has played 1 season and one guy has played 5. Claussen did about the same as Fitz in the Fitz's rookie season and the Rams were a way better team than the Panthers with more weapons. Undeniable.

[PTI]

Yeah lets give up on an almost sure fire contributor to our woeful D and reach for a big maybe at the QB position...

and Fitz has already gone beyond mediocre backup... In fact if Fitz was to be our backup we'd have one of the better backups in the league. Fitz right now is a mediocre starter. teams have proven to win with mediocre starters, and some these same teams have later added the franchise QB after fixing other elements of the team and gone on to win it all...

Bottom line is you want to erase 10+ years of piss poor football management with a franchise QB.... this team needs a steady calculated rebuild to just get to dependable core in place. Yes it's painful... but that's the deal when you screw the pooch for over 10 years

and if we lose big in 2011 then were gonna have a shot at the QB's in 2012 and hopefully they will show more promise then the weak ass class of 2011. and if there is no 2011 season then we're in even better shape to take a shot at franchise arm in 2012....

nothing but positives in my book.... :surf:
You make it painfully clear that you hold winning in very low regard when losing becomes a positive. I just would not hang out with a person like you.

[justasportsfan]

the jets wouldn't have been successful if they couldn't stop the run like the bills can't even with Sanchez. I doubt they even make playoffs.

[PTI]

the jets wouldn't have been successful if they couldn't stop the run like the bills can't even with Sanchez. I doubt they even make playoffs.
Jets make the playoffs at least once every 3 years. They are doing something right. Actually the Jets made the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years, so this recent Jets defense has lasted a pretty goo amount of time!!! Or, it could be that they had decent QBs, like Testeverde, Pennington, Favre, and Sanchez. Bills were close with Bledsoe, but also had Holcomb, Losman, Edwards, and Fitz, not even close to the QBs the Jets had.

It is possible to re-tool a team and get right back into the playoffs.

[Philagape]

Fitz > Sanchez

[PTI]

Fitz > Sanchez

Hilarious. Sanchez has lead his team to the playoffs in first two seasons, and Fitz has found his way on to his 3rd crappy team in 5 years.

[trapezeus]

I saw a draft board full of losman's and edwards. you want to try and build around losers just because you want the position fixed? or do you want to have a well diversified team that doesn't solely rely on QB play?

fitz stepped onto an atrocious offense. one that bored most of us to tears. Then he came in and made it at least entertaining to watch. no one else changed on the team. so given some pretty weak tools, he made it much better.

After all your complaining of fitz, i kind of hope he has a magical season and wins a superbowl so we can hear that interview that said, "a lot of people had dismissed you, but you hung in there. how does it feel to loved in buffalo more than Jim Kelly". In fact, i'd love to see if your head explodes.

[justasportsfan]

Jets make the playoffs at least once every 3 years. They are doing something right. Actually the Jets made the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years, so this recent Jets defense has lasted a pretty goo amount of time!!! Or, it could be that they had decent QBs, like Testeverde, Pennington, Favre, and Sanchez. Bills were close with Bledsoe, but also had Holcomb, Losman, Edwards, and Fitz, not even close to the QBs the Jets had.

It is possible to re-tool a team and get right back into the playoffs.


did the jets or any of those teams have a 32 ranked run D that gave us franchise record yards?

[Philagape]

Hilarious. Sanchez has lead his team to the playoffs in first two seasons, and Fitz has found his way on to his 3rd crappy team in 5 years.

Dude, it isn't tennis. If you think the Jets win because Sanchez and his 54% "leads" them, maybe you should stick to tennis.

[justasportsfan]

Hilarious. Sanchez has lead his team to the playoffs in first two seasons, and Fitz has found his way on to his 3rd crappy team in 5 years.

actually the D and the run game lead the jets. They made it there DESPITE Sancez.

[PTI]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

Did I have to post this again? Well, yes. 4 4th quarter comebacks and 6 Game Winning drives last season for Sanchez. Fitz had 1 4th quarter comeback with 1 GW drive, and don't say it was the Jets defense that put them in position, Bills lost a lot of close games where Fitz sucked in the 4th quarter. It is a fact.

[justasportsfan]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

Did I have to post this again? Well, yes. 4 4th quarter comebacks and 6 Game Winning drives last season for Sanchez. Fitz had 1 4th quarter comeback with 1 GW drive, and don't say it was the Jets defense that put them in position, Bills lost a lot of close games where Fitz sucked in the 4th quarter. It is a fact.
that means squat. they wouldn't have made it if they couldn't stop the run. Sanchez wouldn't have a chance to make a 4th qtr. comeback if they couldn't stop the run.

[justasportsfan]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

Did I have to post this again? Well, yes. 4 4th quarter comebacks and 6 Game Winning drives last season for Sanchez. Fitz had 1 4th quarter comeback with 1 GW drive, and don't say it was the Jets defense that put them in position, Bills lost a lot of close games where Fitz sucked in the 4th quarter. It is a fact.

Sanchez had only 198 yards.
the jets D limited Orton to 14 out of 34 attempts. Den had only 71 yards rushing (34 from Tebow) Are you telling me Sanchez stopped them?

Detroit had only 59 yards rush (11 from Stafford) . Did Sanchez stop them?

I can go on with the jets D and rushing game but you should get the point by now that without them, Sanchez is not winning games for them singlehandedly.

[psubills62]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

Did I have to post this again? Well, yes. 4 4th quarter comebacks and 6 Game Winning drives last season for Sanchez. Fitz had 1 4th quarter comeback with 1 GW drive, and don't say it was the Jets defense that put them in position, Bills lost a lot of close games where Fitz sucked in the 4th quarter. It is a fact.
That's a nice way of handling an argument. Telling people not to mention something doesn't take away from the truth of it. As I mentioned before, just look at the first week of the season if you want evidence that the Jets defense and run game are the ones that kept them in games.

[Philagape]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

Did I have to post this again? Well, yes. 4 4th quarter comebacks and 6 Game Winning drives last season for Sanchez. Fitz had 1 4th quarter comeback with 1 GW drive, and don't say it was the Jets defense that put them in position, Bills lost a lot of close games where Fitz sucked in the 4th quarter. It is a fact.

Perhaps if Sanchez was a better QB they could put away teams like Denver, Detroit and Cleveland sooner. It's him that lets those kinds of teams hang with the Jets.
The Jets win because they have a great defense and a great o-line. Your simple-minded fixation on the QB really makes you say some whacked-out things.

[ddaryl]

You make it painfully clear that you hold winning in very low regard when losing becomes a positive. I just would not hang out with a person like you.

are you serious ????

I want to build this team right... you're delusion about having to reach for a huge maybe at QB when another player is sitting there that is almost guaranteed to have a bigger immediate and long term impact says something about your comprehension levels

talking to you is a lot like :banghead:.

and who the **** ever asked you to hang out with me. I only hang with people who have some intellect or are at least cool

[PTI]

How in the world did the Jets score 23 points a game?

[Philagape]

The Jets were 4th in the league in rushing and 22nd in passing.
The Jets had the fifth-most first downs by rushing, and 20th in first downs by passing.
The Jets had the third-highest run-to-pass ratio in the league.

And Sanchez "leads" them :rofl:

And if you think he's so clutch in the fourth quarter, check out his splits. He actually plays his worst in the fourth quarter: 46.2 percent, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 5.27 YPA, 55.5 rating

The Jets are the poster boys for winning with a crap QB

[Philagape]

To be fair, I'll grant that he plays much better in the playoffs. But how can he have such crappy regular-season numbers when he has such a good team around him?
Back on topic: If Fitz and Sanchez traded teams, Fitz would blow him away.

[mayotm]

Why do some assume that Fitz can't continue to improve? He was much better in 2010 than he was in 2009. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that he could make another jump in 2011?

[TigerJ]

I don't think it's any secret that the Bills know there are better QBs than Fitzpatrick. He is, however, in their opinion good enough to be at least a short term QB while they wait for the right opportunity to get their franchise guy.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

if the jets had fitz, they would be a 14-2 team, their oline and defensive talent/scheme is that good. we are fine with fitz, he is the 2nd best qb in our division. build a great d, build a solid mean oline and we will win....

[acehole]

Not only this...the team has some sense of continuity and chemistry...and from what I understand the team is behind him and likes him....we have not had that in some time.


Leave him for now until somebody takes it from him...



I don't think it's any secret that the Bills know there are better QBs than Fitzpatrick. He is, however, in their opinion good enough to be at least a short term QB while they wait for the right opportunity to get their franchise guy.

[alohabillsfan]

Do we want to kick the dead horse or not?

To answer your question: The ability to win a few games to get us to the playoffs DESPITE the team. Dilfer did it BECAUSE of the team.

My theory is that the Bills may never get a defense good enough to win with a mediocre QB. At this point Fitz is mediocre IMO. Since he's our starter, I hope he becomes more, but I think it's a bit unlikely.


So "his" limitations are the defense? Interesting? You back up limitations with opionions? :roflmao:

[X-Era]

So "his" limitations are the defense? Interesting? You back up limitations with opionions? :roflmao:
Disclaimer: All the comments expressed here are the opinions of the author.

I guess you missed that I think he is a mediocre QB. I assumed you would understand that I think we need much more to succeed. I hoped you would have caught that I don't think our defense can ever be top 1 or 2 which means other parts of your team and especially the QB would have to pick up the slack. Fitz isn't good enough to get this team wins on an average offense and an average defense. Fitz also isn't good enough to carry a team to wins by himself.

An average QB + an average offense + an average defense ≠ A Super Bowl team or even a playoff team for that matter

Just to recap, Fitz isn't good enough. For this team to get to the SB or even the playoffs with Fitz requires a top 5 defense.

[alohabillsfan]

Disclaimer: All the comments expressed here are the opinions of the author.

I guess you missed that I think he is a mediocre QB. I assumed you would understand that I think we need much more to succeed. I hoped you would have caught that I don't think our defense can ever be top 1 or 2 which means other parts of your team and especially the QB would have to pick up the slack. Fitz isn't good enough to get this team wins on an average offense and an average defense. Fitz also isn't good enough to carry a team to wins by himself.

An average QB + an average offense + an average defense ≠ A Super Bowl team or even a playoff team for that matter

Just to recap, Fitz isn't good enough. For this team to get to the SB or even the playoffs with Fitz requires a top 5 defense.

Disclaimer, some posters back up statements with facts, like

The Jets were 4th in the league in rushing and 22nd in passing.
The Jets had the fifth-most first downs by rushing, and 20th in first downs by passing.
The Jets had the third-highest run-to-pass ratio in the league.

And Sanchez "leads" them

And if you think he's so clutch in the fourth quarter, check out his splits. He actually plays his worst in the fourth quarter: 46.2 percent, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 5.27 YPA, 55.5 rating

Thanks Phil!

[mysticsoto]

Jets make the playoffs at least once every 3 years. They are doing something right. Actually the Jets made the playoffs 6 of the last 10 years, so this recent Jets defense has lasted a pretty goo amount of time!!! Or, it could be that they had decent QBs, like Testeverde, Pennington, Favre, and Sanchez. Bills were close with Bledsoe, but also had Holcomb, Losman, Edwards, and Fitz, not even close to the QBs the Jets had.

It is possible to re-tool a team and get right back into the playoffs.

Jets also live in a place where it is easy to attract Free Agents to cover any holes they may have. We don't have that luxury currently...

[PTI]

Disclaimer, some posters back up statements with facts, like

The Jets were 4th in the league in rushing and 22nd in passing.
The Jets had the fifth-most first downs by rushing, and 20th in first downs by passing.
The Jets had the third-highest run-to-pass ratio in the league.

And Sanchez "leads" them

And if you think he's so clutch in the fourth quarter, check out his splits. He actually plays his worst in the fourth quarter: 46.2 percent, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 5.27 YPA, 55.5 rating

Thanks Phil!

I would like to see a link on those splits. Pro Football reference does not appear to have by quarter splits. I don't care about numbers, really, I care about wins, although I am doubting those quarter splits.

This is what makes him clutch, why don't you and others get it. He had 4 4th quarter and led his team to 6 late game winning drives in 2010 alone.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

That is what makes him clutch and a good leader for his team. Did you bother to open the link. Go check out how many Fitz has. He has less than JP Losman and Trent Edwards in more career starts.

[Philagape]

I would like to see a link on those splits. Pro Football reference does not appear to have by quarter splits. I don't care about numbers, really, I care about wins, although I am doubting those quarter splits.

This is what makes him clutch, why don't you and others get it. He had 4 4th quarter and led his team to 6 late game winning drives in 2010 alone.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

That is what makes him clutch and a good leader for his team. Did you bother to open the link. Go check out how many Fitz has. He has less than JP Losman and Trent Edwards in more career starts.

Most of the major sports sites (ESPN, CBS) have player splits. Here is Sanchez's:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=12482

We don't "get" what you're saying because what you're saying is wrong. You are not discussing the game intelligently and are making extremely simple-minded arguments. You do not understand the things you are claiming and are misinterpreting them.

Specifically, you do not grasp that the Jets' defense, o-line, receivers and running game are more responsible for their success than Sanchez is.

Let's look at some of those drives:
* Against Denver, Tomlinson scored the game-winning TD from the 2 one play after a 46-yard pass interference penalty on fourth and 6.
* The game-winning "drive" against Cleveland in OT was a 6-yard pass that Holmes ran 31 yards for a touchdown. That was the only play of the "drive."
* The Pittsburgh game ended a streak of 12 quarters with no offensive touchdowns. The go-ahead drive actually started in the third quarter, and the Jets defense preserved the win on three subsequent Steelers possessions.
* The game-winning FG against the Colts in the playoffs was a 32-yard drive after a 47-yard kickoff return. That exemplifies another Jets tidbit: They had the second-best average drive start in the league last year.

Sanchez probably gets more help from his team than any other QB in the league. The Jets are pretty good everywhere except quarterback.
Fitz, on the other hand, has a line that's mediocre at best, an anemic running game (league-low six rushing TDs while the Jets had 14) and a defense that' was historically bad. He has to carry an awful team himself, which forces him to take more chances and commit more turnovers.
Put Fitz on the Jets, and they're a Super Bowl team.

[alohabillsfan]

Sanchez= QB that gets to much credit for wins
Fitz= QB that gets to much blame for losses.

[PTI]

Most of the major sports sites (ESPN, CBS) have player splits. Here is Sanchez's:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=12482

We don't "get" what you're saying because what you're saying is wrong. You are not discussing the game intelligently and are making extremely simple-minded arguments. You do not understand the things you are claiming and are misinterpreting them.

Specifically, you do not grasp that the Jets' defense, o-line, receivers and running game are more responsible for their success than Sanchez is.

Let's look at some of those drives:
* Against Denver, Tomlinson scored the game-winning TD from the 2 one play after a 46-yard pass interference penalty on fourth and 6.
* The game-winning "drive" against Cleveland in OT was a 6-yard pass that Holmes ran 31 yards for a touchdown. That was the only play of the "drive."
* The Pittsburgh game ended a streak of 12 quarters with no offensive touchdowns. The go-ahead drive actually started in the third quarter, and the Jets defense preserved the win on three subsequent Steelers possessions.
* The game-winning FG against the Colts in the playoffs was a 32-yard drive after a 47-yard kickoff return. That exemplifies another Jets tidbit: They had the second-best average drive start in the league last year.

Sanchez probably gets more help from his team than any other QB in the league. The Jets are pretty good everywhere except quarterback.
Fitz, on the other hand, has a line that's mediocre at best, an anemic running game (league-low six rushing TDs while the Jets had 14) and a defense that' was historically bad. He has to carry an awful team himself, which forces him to take more chances and commit more turnovers.
Put Fitz on the Jets, and they're a Super Bowl team.

If you do that you have to describe how and why Fitz did well in the games he did then. That is utter nonsense to break those down and give Fitz the benefit of the doubt when he performed well. It is just crazy. You do realize 3 of the Bills wins the Bills scored 17, 14, and 13 points, right? Do I have to break down the 4 games that Fitz actually had good numbers?

It is just sad and crazy that the biggest defenses of Fitz are how bad Sanchez is.

[justasportsfan]

If you do that you have to describe how and why Fitz did well in the games he did then. That is utter nonsense to break those down and give Fitz the benefit of the doubt when he performed well. It is just crazy. You do realize 3 of the Bills wins the Bills scored 17, 14, and 13 points, right? Do I have to break down the 4 games that Fitz actually had good numbers?

It is just sad and crazy that the biggest defenses of Fitz are how bad Sanchez is.


all he did was describe that Sanchez does not carry his team on his own. He wouldn't be clutch if his D didn't get him the ball back to begin with. If Peyton was on the jets, they would almost never have to comeback to win a game.

[Philagape]

If you do that you have to describe how and why Fitz did well in the games he did then. That is utter nonsense to break those down and give Fitz the benefit of the doubt when he performed well. It is just crazy. You do realize 3 of the Bills wins the Bills scored 17, 14, and 13 points, right? Do I have to break down the 4 games that Fitz actually had good numbers?

It is just sad and crazy that the biggest defenses of Fitz are how bad Sanchez is.

As long as you continue to use team numbers to judge individuals, you are not qualified to participate in this discussion.
I'm not defending Fitz at all. He is mediocre at best, inconsistent and can't carry a team on his back. But he's been better than Sanchez, which I see you have conceded.

[PTI]

all he did was describe that Sanchez does not carry his team on his own. He wouldn't be clutch if his D didn't get him the ball back to begin with. If Peyton was on the jets, they would almost never have to comeback to win a game.

He tried to discredit Sanchez for the QB behind a team that had 10 wins and played in the AFC Championship game in his first two seasons by making excuses for what happened but does not apply any of the same logic in describing what happened with Fitz. It is 1000000% hypocritical and is 3rd grade arguing.

[justasportsfan]

He tried to discredit Sanchez for the QB behind a team that had 10 wins and played in the AFC Championship game in his first two seasons by making excuses for what happened but does not apply any of the same logic in describing what happened with Fitz. It is 1000000% hypocritical and is 3rd grade arguing.


NO he didn't. What he did was discredit YOUR opinion that implies Sanchez is solely responsible for those 10 wins when FACTS PROVE that their run game and their D had more to do than Sanchez.

You can argue with the FACTS all you want.

[PTI]

As long as you continue to use team numbers to judge individuals, you are not qualified to participate in this discussion.
I'm not defending Fitz at all. He is mediocre at best, inconsistent and can't carry a team on his back. But he's been better than Sanchez, which I see you have conceded.

Dude, what were you doing in the breakdown with asterics just a few posts up? You precisely did what you just accused me of doing and said I was not qualified. What a fool and a complete hypocrit just a few posts from each other. You fail.

[PTI]

NO he didn't. What he did was discredit YOUR opinion that implies Sanchez is solely responsible for those 10 wins when FACTS PROVE that their run game and their D is more than a factor than Sanchez.

You can argue with the FACTS all you want.

When have I said Sanchez is totally responsible? There is a reason QBs have numbers that are kept for when they are starters and how many 4th quarter comebacks and Game winning drives they have, these are not my stats, these are kept and talked about and brought up all the time in every NFL broadcast and breakdown of QBs. It is not made up. There is no one talking about the record of the Bills when Pozlusny is starting at LB. He is QB on a team in the AFC Championship game in his first two seasons and it is nuts that everyone says he flat out sucks, it makes no sense. He is by no means in the top 10 at the moment but he clearly is the Jets leader, not bad for a now 3rd year QB. Not too bad.

[justasportsfan]

When have I said Sanchez is totally responsible? There is a reason QBs have numbers that are kept for when they are starters and how many 4th quarter comebacks and Game winning drives they have, these are not my stats, these are kept and talked about and brought up all the time in every NFL broadcast and breakdown of QBs. It is not made up. There is no one talking about the record of the Bills when Pozlusny is starting at LB. He is QB on a team in the AFC Championship game in his first two seasons and it is nuts that everyone says he flat out sucks, it makes no sense. He is by no means in the top 10 at the moment but he clearly is the Jets leader, not bad for a now 3rd year QB. Not too bad.


I said you "implied". You keep bringing up their record as part of your argument when FACT is the D and run game had more to do with their record which makes your argument weak.

[PTI]

I said you "implied". You keep bringing up their record as part of your argument when FACT is the D and run game had more to do with their record which makes your argument weak.

Just because you say it is a weak argument doesn't make it close to being true. It is their record, they did win those games, he was the QB, and those things do not change, and he did lead his team to late game wins all season long, how in the world can he be that bad? It is crazy that I put facts out there and people want to just say that they are weak and it is so because you so.

[justasportsfan]

Just because you say it is a weak argument doesn't make it close to being true. It is their record, they did win those games, he was the QB, and those things do not change, and he did lead his team to late game wins all season long, how in the world can he be that bad? It is crazy that I put facts out there and people want to just say that they are weak and it is so because you so.
Again, are you going to tell me that Sanchez is a better qb than Manning or Brady because the jets beat them both in the playoffs?

[PTI]

Again, are you going to tell me that Sanchez is a better qb than Manning or Brady because the jets beat them both in the playoffs?

I have never implied that and why are you trying to even move towards that, I never came close to saying anything like that. How could you even make a leap towards that? Are you intentionally trying to appear like are lacking intelligence?

[justasportsfan]

I have never implied that and why are you trying to even move towards that, I never came close to saying anything like that. How could you even make a leap towards that? Are you intentionally trying to appear like are lacking intelligence?
you're trying to tell us that Sanchez is better than Fitz because of their record. Well?

Actually when you argue with facts your intelligence comes into question.

[PTI]

you're trying to tell us that Sanchez is better than Fitz because of their record. Well?

Actually when you argue with facts your intelligence comes into question.

Sanchez led his team as the QB to AFC Championship in his first two seasons as a pro, led his team to late game wins, and Fitz is on his 3rd team in 5 seasons, that alone should be enough to say Sanchez is better without saying anything else at all, and it in no implies he is better than Manning or Brady.

[justasportsfan]

Sanchez led his team as the QB to AFC Championship in his first two seasons as a pro, led his team to late game wins, and Fitz is on his 3rd team in 5 seasons, that alone should be enough to say Sanchez is better without saying anything else at all, and it in no implies he is better than Manning or Brady.


NO, His D and run game lead thejets despite Sanchez. You're giving credit to Sanchez for their record when he was worse nos. than Fitz who had a far worse supporting cast.

I don't care that Fitz was on his 3rd team in 3 seasons. He had better nos. last year than Sanchez. That s FACT!

You are giving credit to Sanchez while ignoring his supporting cast yet you blast Fitz while ignoring his supporting cast. Thats dumb.

[X-Era]

Disclaimer, some posters back up statements with facts, like

The Jets were 4th in the league in rushing and 22nd in passing.
The Jets had the fifth-most first downs by rushing, and 20th in first downs by passing.
The Jets had the third-highest run-to-pass ratio in the league.

And Sanchez "leads" them

And if you think he's so clutch in the fourth quarter, check out his splits. He actually plays his worst in the fourth quarter: 46.2 percent, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 5.27 YPA, 55.5 rating

Thanks Phil!You must have missed my other post where we laid out Fitz's stats. A quick review will help.

[Bill Cody]

You have to be careful assigning QB's wins and losses. As important as they are no QB can do anything on any play without a lot of help. And no QB has a thing to do with his teams defense or lack thereof. Guys that want to put things in nice little neat boxes make me laugh.

Our own two eyes tell us Fitz is a decent QB, nothing more, nothing less. It's the hardest job in sports. Maybe 15 teams were loking to upgrade their QB position after last year, not just us. Guess what? They're aren't 15 upgrades available. It is what it is. If we go 0-16 next year I'm positive I can suggest a solution to the problem. If not? We're scrambling like a lot of teams.

[Figster]

Chan Gailey believes Ryan Fitzpatrick is a signal caller the Buffalo Bills can build around.(in my opinion) Given the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick only has one season under his belt with a new offense/OC its probably unfair for any of us (including myself) to base Fitzpatricks capabilities on one season. Fitz is entertaining to say the very least.


Time will tell...

[PTI]

Chan Gailey believes Ryan Fitzpatrick is a signal caller the Buffalo Bills can build around.(in my opinion) Given the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick only has one season under his belt with a new offense/OC its probably unfair for any of us (including myself) to base Fitzpatricks capabilities on one season.

Time will tell...

Guess it's unfair to judge Alex Smith, Claussen, Grossman, Jason Campbell, maybe a few others too.