Whitner interested in coming back [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Extremebillsfan247

05-05-2011, 08:39 PM

Personally, I have no problem with him resigning with the Bills. After all, it's not his fault the Bills reached on him when they drafted him in the first place. I just hope that if he does come back, that he gains some maturity, learns when to and when not to say something. I don't like how he mocks the team, belittles the fan base, and the city. The only way for the negative responses that come his way via twitter will stop is if he does his part to put W's on the board on Sundays. We just want the Bills to win for a change. If he wants to be a part of that, it's fine. If not, and all he wants is more money, he can be on his way, and we will move on with out him. That's my opinion on it.

bosshogg21

05-05-2011, 08:41 PM

He can't cover tight ends. No thanks!

Mr. Miyagi

05-05-2011, 09:32 PM

Show us how much you really want to stay Donte. Take a deep paycut.

Oldbillsfan

05-05-2011, 10:52 PM

id rather see then try someone else

DrGraves

05-05-2011, 10:58 PM

this guy is unbelievable... is there any way he is that naive to the fact that no bills fans like him??? wow he is one stupid ****

better days

05-05-2011, 11:26 PM

Bulldog

05-06-2011, 07:45 AM

This is nothing more than Whitner trying to show his potential suiters in FA that he's not a malcontent/problem child. His days in Buffalo are done!

Mr. Miyagi

05-06-2011, 07:46 AM

http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/1353166/michael-scott-no-god-o.gif
WTF does this say?

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 08:14 AM

He can't cover tight ends. No thanks!
I wouldn't mind Whitner coming back because in the end he is starter quality and has a giant chip on his shoulder. He is not a bad character guy, he is a leader on the team whether ppl want to believe that or not and for the most part I think his team mates like him.

Some fans really get way into the idea that "Whitner can't cover tight ends" sorry but most safeties in the league can't or don't even get the assignment of covering TEs. That is the whole idea with TEs they are too big for safeties too fast for LBs.

And most of the top safeties in the league NEVER cover TEs like Troy P and Reed. Those guys either cover the deep middle of the field or roam anywhere they want.

Also, many of you use 3 or 4 examples during the year to point out that Whitner can't cover TEs. while he probably draws that assignment over 100 times in a season. 96 out of 100 is pretty good.

I don't think Whitner has lived up to his draft status but I also think he has been put in a crappy situation with a very weak front 7 since he was drafted. That is something the top safeties in the league don't have to worry about and for Troy and Ed we are talking about the 2 top front 7s in the league.

Just some perspective...

TheGhostofJimKelly

05-06-2011, 08:28 AM

I'm sure he would want to be back in Buffalo, as long as the price is right.

trapezeus

05-06-2011, 08:40 AM

i guess whitner is limited to reading only 141 characters.

Nix's quote was "i don't want to put words into donte's mouth, but based on his actions, i get the sense that he doesn't want to be here."

and yes, i now realize that is under 141 characters, so i'm not sure why he's so stupid.

Buddy wasn't really calling you out so much, donte, as much as he was saying that that contract offer was the final offer.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 09:15 AM

I wouldn't mind Whitner coming back because in the end he is starter quality and has a giant chip on his shoulder. He is not a bad character guy, he is a leader on the team whether ppl want to believe that or not and for the most part I think his team mates like him.

The chip on his shoulder comes out on Twitter and to the media. It doesn't really come out on the field.

And please, this "leader" **** has gone on for 5 years, but no one has any examples or evidence of Donte being a "leader." The only thing anyone ever comes up with is letting McKelvin crash at his house and play his XBox when McKelvin was a rookie. This "Donte Whitner is a leader" nonsense has taken on urban legend status. Everyone repeats it as if it's true, but there's no evidence of it whatsoever.

Whitner is the old guard. I've been advocating a clean break ever since Nix and Gailey. We got rid of John Guy. We FINALLY got rid of Modrak. It's time for that break to start hitting the players harder. Whitner and Poz should be the first two to go.

whkfc

05-06-2011, 09:22 AM

Ill give Donte this much. Hes perfected the late back tackle better than anyone else in the league.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 09:43 AM

Ill give Donte this much. Hes perfected the late back tackle better than anyone else in the league.
Yeah maybe he should just let them go in for TDs....

Man, I'm looking like a Donte defender here but some of the arguments you guys have are ridiculous.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 09:46 AM

Yeah maybe he should just let them go in for TDs....

Man, I'm looking like a Donte defender here but some of the arguments you guys have are ridiculous.

Please tell me how Donte flying back-first into the pile after the ball carrier is already on the ground saves a touchdown.

Seriously, you people try to make me sound crazy for all my Whitner posts, but then you try to give him credit for saving TD's by jumping backwards onto the pile after the play is over. Saint Donte can do no wrong...

trapezeus

05-06-2011, 09:53 AM

The only thing anyone ever comes up with is letting McKelvin crash at his house and play his XBox when McKelvin was a rookie. .

Could explain why most of us are coming to terms with why mckelvin is probably a bust unless he has a magical season this year.

elltrain22

05-06-2011, 10:22 AM

WTF does this say?

I can answer this. I know its not my GIF, but I am a huge Office fan, and that is Michael reacting to when Toby, the HR guy, comes back to work at Dunder Mifflin. The first time he sees him, he says "Noooooo, Nooooooo, God!!!" Thats what he is saying.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 11:05 AM

Please tell me how Donte flying back-first into the pile after the ball carrier is already on the ground saves a touchdown.

Seriously, you people try to make me sound crazy for all my Whitner posts, but then you try to give him credit for saving TD's by jumping backwards onto the pile after the play is over. Saint Donte can do no wrong...
So Donte collected all his tackles by pile diving? Common....

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 11:23 AM

So Donte collected all his tackles by pile diving? Common....

no, Donte collected all his tackles because a) the front 7 blows and b) he was a day late and a dollar short to make a play on the ball so he had to tackle the WR/TE.

Safeties should never lead a D in tackles. That stat shows a bad front 7, not a good S. But since it's St Donte with all the tackles, he'll get all the credit.

trapezeus

05-06-2011, 11:27 AM

unfortunately, they dont have a stat called, "bad angles taken". Donte would be an allstar there as well.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 11:28 AM

unfortunately, they dont have a stat called, "bad angles taken". Donte would be an allstar there as well.

nooooo. Donte's good in run support. Well, he is if you read this board anyway.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 11:30 AM

no, Donte collected all his tackles because a) the front 7 blows and b) he was a day late and a dollar short to make a play on the ball so he had to tackle the WR/TE.

Safeties should never lead a D in tackles. That stat shows a bad front 7, not a good S. But since it's St Donte with all the tackles, he'll get all the credit.
So you admit that our front 7 was horrible but discount the effect a horrible front 7 has on a safety?

Again, this isn't something Whitner only dealt with last year, since he has been in the league the best DL player he ever had in front of him was Schobel, and that is saying something.

SabreEleven

05-06-2011, 11:32 AM

Maybe he can be hired to run the Buffalo Bills twitter page?

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 11:32 AM

nooooo. Donte's good in run support. Well, he is if you read this board anyway.
You act as if Whitner was an in the box safety. He played deep a lot so when your front 7 don't make the tackle it's his job to get from his deep position and make the tackle asap. Often that will be after a decent gain.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 11:36 AM

So you admit that our front 7 was horrible but discount the effect a horrible front 7 has on a safety?

Again, this isn't something Whitner only dealt with last year, since he has been in the league the best DL player he ever had in front of him was Schobel, and that is saying something.
Yes, I discount it.

I discount it because guys like Jairus Byrd, Bryan Scott and George Wilson have performed at or above Whitner's level behind the same front 7. Whitner is nothing special- we can get the same level of play without the antics for less money.

And for the record, the "he didn't have a good team around him" argument is bull**** because football is a team game- it applies to every player. Put Lee Evans on the Colts for the last 5 years and watch his numbers skyrocket. Put Schobel on the Colts' DL subbing in for Freeney or Mathis and watch him suddenly look like a superstar.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 11:36 AM

You act as if Whitner was an in the box safety. He played deep a lot so when your front 7 don't make the tackle it's his job to get from his deep position and make the tackle asap. Often that will be after a decent gain.

that doesn't mean part of that gain isn't his fault for taking a bad angle.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 11:41 AM

I just don't understand why people insist on defending the mediocrity that has been the Buffalo Bills over the last decade. The reason we have done so poorly is because we have a team full of guys like Poz and Whitner: They're not awful, but they never lived up to their hype and they're not all that great either.

At some point we need to make a change. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. The Bills made Whitner an offer, he turned it down. Clearly, he overvalues himself (huge shocker there). This is an excellent opportunity to part ways and start fixing what is broken.

justasportsfan

05-06-2011, 11:42 AM

Please tell me how Donte flying back-first into the pile after the ball carrier is already on the ground saves a touchdown.

It prevents them from crawling to make a TD after being down by contact in case the replay doesn't catch it. DuH!

Dr. Lecter

05-06-2011, 12:05 PM

Whitner was over drafted. And he has a big mouth.

He is also the best safety on the Bills roster and nobody is really close.

Therefore, I hope he stays.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 12:15 PM

Whitner was over drafted. And he has a big mouth.

He is also the best safety on the Bills roster and nobody is really close.

Therefore, I hope he stays.

and this is defending mediocrity. He may be the best S on the Bills roster, but he's still not good enough. We've already accepted the fact that we can't do anything to upgrade QB, but we can't take that mentality for every single position. It irritates me that our opponents always manage to improve in the off-season, but when it comes to the Bills, people buy the "no one was available" excuse year in and year out.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 12:15 PM

Yes, I discount it.

I discount it because guys like Jairus Byrd, Bryan Scott and George Wilson have performed at or above Whitner's level behind the same front 7. Whitner is nothing special- we can get the same level of play without the antics for less money.

And for the record, the "he didn't have a good team around him" argument is bull**** because football is a team game- it applies to every player. Put Lee Evans on the Colts for the last 5 years and watch his numbers skyrocket. Put Schobel on the Colts' DL subbing in for Freeney or Mathis and watch him suddenly look like a superstar.
So you are contradicting yourself and proving my point in the same post. Put a better team around a good player and he can be great.

You mention Byrd and Wilson. You forget that Whitner was on the field for those plays. You forget that they play different positions in the scheme and that Donte's responsibilities are/were not the same as Byrd's. Byrd had 9 INTs because he was put in a free role. Donte always has some responsibility in the defense.

The only fair knock on Donte Whitner is that he did not live up to 8th overall status. But he has been a very good starter on a bland defense and I almost hope he goes somewhere else with an established front 7 where he can flourish or even better if Buffalo turns things around up front and he stays I think we see more from him. Assuming he is given the opportunity. Because I think as long as him and Byrd play together, Byrd will always be the freer of the two.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 12:20 PM

and this is defending mediocrity. He may be the best S on the Bills roster, but he's still not good enough. We've already accepted the fact that we can't do anything to upgrade QB, but we can't take that mentality for every single position. It irritates me that our opponents always manage to improve in the off-season, but when it comes to the Bills, people buy the "no one was available" excuse year in and year out.
He is a starting S in the NFL at the least. Yer telling me that a 4-12 team has to have a PBer at every spot?

Lets see how many teams go after him in FA...

I'm thinking,

Seattle, Cleveland, Jets, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, Lions, Bears, Saints, Dolphins, Cowboys, Skins, Rams, Vikings and probably 3 or 4 more teams...

psubills62

05-06-2011, 12:21 PM

Whitner was over drafted. And he has a big mouth.

He is also the best safety on the Bills roster and nobody is really close.

Therefore, I hope he stays.
He's a bit underrated in terms of how most Bills fans see him, but very overrated based on his draft status and supposed contract demands.

That being said, I would not say "nobody is really close." George Wilson has done a heck of a job when he gets the chance, and I'd rather have him starting over Whitner any day.

The problem is the money it would take for Whitner to re-sign. Even if he re-signs at 5 million per year, that's still fairly expensive for a safety. The franchise tag value in 2010 for a safety was nearly 6.5 million. For Whitner to make even close to that much seems to indicate he's a core player, which he is not. He's a role player and should be signed for 2-3 million per year at most, in my opinion.

This is why I was pissed at the Kelsay signing - people can justify all they want about how it's backloaded and he could be released, etc. That's not really the issue. The issue for me is that they signed a guy who is a role player at best (leadership?) when they need to take care of their core guys first. Of course, being that they lack any semblance of a core player, maybe that's why they re-signed him.

Look at the Colts and who they lock up. Manning, Clark, Wayne, Bethea, Sanders (the one mistake and only due to injuries), Mathis, and Freeney. Everyone else is just filling around the meat. They let linebackers go because none of the ones they have had are core players. The guys they've signed are part of a core that is established. Are they willing to re-sign other guys? Sure, but only at a decent enough value.

Take care of the core first, then get role players that complement the core. If you don't have a core, then the team needs to be overhauled and a core should be obtained. Dareus should be a decent step towards that, and hopefully other guys will emerge.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 12:23 PM

He is a starting S in the NFL at the least. Yer telling me that a 4-12 team has to have a PBer at every spot?

Lets see how many teams go after him in FA...

No, I'm telling you that a 4-12 team better start getting some Pro Bowl players in some spots or else they're always going to be 4-12. Why not start with S now?

I don't care how many teams go after him in FA. He didn't get the job done here. He's never going to get the job done here unless we put a monster team around him, and a) that would help any player and b) it isn't going to happen anytime soon. If it doesn't work, FIX IT.

Dr. Lecter

05-06-2011, 12:23 PM

and this is defending mediocrity. He may be the best S on the Bills roster, but he's still not good enough. We've already accepted the fact that we can't do anything to upgrade QB, but we can't take that mentality for every single position. It irritates me that our opponents always manage to improve in the off-season, but when it comes to the Bills, people buy the "no one was available" excuse year in and year out.

I did not say he was good enough. Once again, you are missing the point.

To make him expendable the Bills will need to find 3 safeties. And he is, at least, an average safety (probably somewhat above average). It will be no easier to replae Whitner than it will be to replace Fitz. Not to mention, a team can win a Super Bowl with Whitner at safety.

I don't think a team wins the SB with Fitz at QB.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 12:27 PM

So you are contradicting yourself and proving my point in the same post. Put a better team around a good player and he can be great.

You mention Byrd and Wilson. You forget that Whitner was on the field for those plays. You forget that they play different positions in the scheme and that Donte's responsibilities are/were not the same as Byrd's. Byrd had 9 INTs because he was put in a free role. Donte always has some responsibility in the defense.

The only fair knock on Donte Whitner is that he did not live up to 8th overall status. But he has been a very good starter on a bland defense and I almost hope he goes somewhere else with an established front 7 where he can flourish or even better if Buffalo turns things around up front and he stays I think we see more from him. Assuming he is given the opportunity. Because I think as long as him and Byrd play together, Byrd will always be the freer of the two.

So, now it's not the team around him, it's his role in the scheme. Do the excuses for this guy ever end? He's St. Donte and he can do no wrong...

Put a better team around ANY player and he could be great. We could get a cheaper player without Donte's antics and have the same result if we're going to put a better team around them. If Buffalo turns things around up front, we'll see more from every player in the secondary. That's how the game works.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 12:28 PM

I did not say he was good enough. Once again, you are missing the point.

To make him expendable the Bills will need to find 3 safeties. And he is, at least, an average safety (probably somewhat above average). It will be no easier to replae Whitner than it will be to replace Fitz. Not to mention, a team can win a Super Bowl with Whitner at safety.

I don't think a team wins the SB with Fitz at QB.

You think finding a S is just as difficult as finding a QB? I completely disagree with that.

Dr. Lecter

05-06-2011, 12:37 PM

You think finding a S is just as difficult as finding a QB? I completely disagree with that.
I think finding 3 safeties is.

If the Bills let Whitner go, they need to dump Byrd and Scott first and maybe Wilson.

Historian

05-06-2011, 12:37 PM

$11.75 an hour plus medical.

And you get to keep your jersey at the end of the season.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 12:42 PM

I think finding 3 safeties is.

If the Bills let Whitner go, they need to dump Byrd and Scott first and maybe Wilson.

why would we need 3? We have Scott, Byrd and Wilson still on the roster and we drafted Searcy. Do you really expect the Bills to keep 7 S's on the roster?

Dr. Lecter

05-06-2011, 12:45 PM

why would we need 3? We have Scott, Byrd and Wilson still on the roster and we drafted Searcy. Do you really expect the Bills to keep 7 S's on the roster?

Whitner > Byrd

Whitner > Scott

Whitner > Wilson

psubills62

05-06-2011, 12:49 PM

Whitner > Byrd

Whitner > Scott

Whitner > Wilson
Byrd at 480K > Whitner at 5 mil

Scott at 1.15 mil > Whitner at 5 mil

Wilson at 1.025 mil > Whitner at 5 mil

Scott's gone anyway with Searcy coming in. And I'd contend that Wilson > Whitner.

Jeff1220

05-06-2011, 01:06 PM

I don't have much to argue or say on this, except that I don't think he'll be missed.

mysticsoto

05-06-2011, 01:19 PM

Byrd at 480K > Whitner at 5 mil

Scott at 1.15 mil > Whitner at 5 mil

Wilson at 1.025 mil > Whitner at 5 mil

Scott's gone anyway with Searcy coming in. And I'd contend that Wilson > Whitner.
This is pretty much right.

Lecter, we don't keep Whitner b'cse he's a 6/10 ranked safety who wants tons of money, when you have Wilson & Scott at 5.5/10 who make alot less. The difference between their play does not justify the difference in salary!!!

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 01:22 PM

Whitner > Byrd

Whitner > Scott

Whitner > Wilson

Welll, first, Whitner isn't that much better than those other 3. Second, when you consider his antics/attitude and the fact that he costs twice as much as those 3 COMBINED, he's just not worth it.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 01:39 PM

Seattle, Cleveland, Jets, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, Lions, Bears, Saints, Dolphins, Cowboys, Skins, Rams, Vikings and probably 3 or 4 more teams...

so you think Whitner is so good that half the NFL is going to go after him? When was the last time that many teams went after ANY FA, even the best one available?

I'll never understand this Whitner worship.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 01:49 PM

He's a bit underrated in terms of how most Bills fans see him, but very overrated based on his draft status and supposed contract demands.

That being said, I would not say "nobody is really close." George Wilson has done a heck of a job when he gets the chance, and I'd rather have him starting over Whitner any day.

The problem is the money it would take for Whitner to re-sign. Even if he re-signs at 5 million per year, that's still fairly expensive for a safety. The franchise tag value in 2010 for a safety was nearly 6.5 million. For Whitner to make even close to that much seems to indicate he's a core player, which he is not. He's a role player and should be signed for 2-3 million per year at most, in my opinion.

This is why I was pissed at the Kelsay signing - people can justify all they want about how it's backloaded and he could be released, etc. That's not really the issue. The issue for me is that they signed a guy who is a role player at best (leadership?) when they need to take care of their core guys first. Of course, being that they lack any semblance of a core player, maybe that's why they re-signed him.

Look at the Colts and who they lock up. Manning, Clark, Wayne, Bethea, Sanders (the one mistake and only due to injuries), Mathis, and Freeney. Everyone else is just filling around the meat. They let linebackers go because none of the ones they have had are core players. The guys they've signed are part of a core that is established. Are they willing to re-sign other guys? Sure, but only at a decent enough value.

Take care of the core first, then get role players that complement the core. If you don't have a core, then the team needs to be overhauled and a core should be obtained. Dareus should be a decent step towards that, and hopefully other guys will emerge.
How is a guy who plays every single defensive snap a "role player"?

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 01:51 PM

so you think Whitner is so good that half the NFL is going to go after him? When was the last time that many teams went after ANY FA, even the best one available?

I'll never understand this Whitner worship.
Because the best FAs usually cost upwards of 10 mil per season. Whitner will be signed in the 5-6 mil range which most teams can afford.

On top of that, half the NFL is looking for a coverage safety these days and the draft we just had was very weak at the safety spot.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 01:52 PM

How is a guy who plays every single defensive snap a "role player"?

Taking every single snap doesn't mean a player is good. We were 4-12. There were a lot of players on the field who are role players trying to be stars. Donte was one of them.

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 01:58 PM

Taking every single snap doesn't mean a player is good. We were 4-12. There were a lot of players on the field who are role players trying to be stars. Donte was one of them.
No Donte is a starter playing as a starter. Not a role player or a star.

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 01:58 PM

Because the best FAs usually cost upwards of 10 mil per season. Whitner will be signed in the 5-6 mil range which most teams can afford.

On top of that, half the NFL is looking for a coverage safety these days and the draft we just had was very weak at the safety spot.

The rest of the NFL isn't run by Ralph Wilson. Teams won't be willing to settle for Whitner's mediocrity.

And who was the last FA safety to get $10 mil a year?

OpIv37

05-06-2011, 01:58 PM

No Donte is a starter playing as a starter. Not a role player or a star.

Starters can be role players too.

psubills62

05-06-2011, 03:01 PM

How is a guy who plays every single defensive snap a "role player"?
"Role player" may have been the wrong phrase to use, as that typically applies to guys who play a certain down. My intention was more of a "complementary player."

Mahdi

05-06-2011, 03:19 PM

"Role player" may have been the wrong phrase to use, as that typically applies to guys who play a certain down. My intention was more of a "complementary player."
complementary player? What does that mean? That he is a compliment to Byrd? I don't think that works either. You are trying to find a word that downgrades Whitner somehow but its not working.

It's not that complicated really, he is a starting safety in the NFL and I would put him in the top 10 of SS in the NFL also.

He is not a role player or a complimentary player either IMO.

psubills62

05-06-2011, 03:37 PM

complementary player? What does that mean? That he is a compliment to Byrd? I don't think that works either. You are trying to find a word that downgrades Whitner somehow but its not working.

It's not that complicated really, he is a starting safety in the NFL and I would put him in the top 10 of SS in the NFL also.

He is not a role player or a complimentary player either IMO. It's working just fine. Being a complementary player essentially means he's a starter that can fill out a roster, but that's it. Core guys are important and necessary starters that form the core of your talent. Complementary players are simply ones who aren't quite as good, aren't worth quite as much, but can do decently on a good team with an established core. That is, they complement the core. As far as what word I use...it doesn't change what Whitner is, and that's just a capable starter, nothing more. Not worth 5 mil per year.

Like I said, the big problem I have is the money needed to pay him. Not only is he not worth top safety money, safeties are almost never core players. The only exceptions I'd make are Polamalu, Reed, and Bethea - Bethea only gets a pass because of the way Indy has built their team.

Extremebillsfan247

05-06-2011, 04:39 PM

It is not his fault the Bills drafted him much higher than he should have been. It is his fault that he wants to be paid now as if he deserved to be drafted that high & played that well.
It's a business, these guys aren't selling cookies for girl scouts. lol Whitner isn't the first player to ever ask for more than what he is worth, and he wont be the last.

YardRat

05-06-2011, 08:16 PM

We can lose 12 games with him, we can lose 12 without him.

I'm not a Whitner hater, he does have flaws, but I think he would be perceived as a much better player if he had more talent in front of him. Sometimes guys just aren't worth the money they are looking for, and it's ok to part ways and give both parties a fresh start.

Mad Max

05-07-2011, 01:40 PM

He can't cover tight ends. No thanks!

...or tackle a running back prior to a big gain, or make a game changing play, or stay off twitter, or...

Mr. Pink

05-07-2011, 02:01 PM

"Role player" may have been the wrong phrase to use, as that typically applies to guys who play a certain down. My intention was more of a "complementary player."

He's a warm body that takes up a roster spot.

Whatever talent and ability he had in Ohio State never translated to the NFL.

He's a dime a dozen NFL safety that can be easily replaced by another dime a dozen guy.

Is that a better explanation of what you were trying to get at?