Evans out to reroute his game

[justasportsfan]

Although the Bills have made great use of Evans' big-play ability, he has been typecast as a one-trick pony. He has been limited to running deep routes, often outside the numbers. It's a lot easier to defend a guy when that's all you do.Bills coach Chan Gailey is hoping to expand the way Evans contributes to the offense. Gailey will continue to use Evans to attack defenses downfield, but he wants to see Evans become as much of a threat on short and intermediate routes as the long ones.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/allen-wilson/article431497.ece

[Mr. Miyagi]

Gailey continues to fix Jauron's mess.

[Mr. Pink]

He does more than run streaks now! He also stands around the line of scrimmage very well.

[Jaybird]

Gailey continues to fix Jauron's mess.

Well said! It is amazing what coaching can do

[trapezeus]

let's remember to pop this thread to the top in the middle of the season when evans is still just an average receiver adn people say, "he's just running long".

or on the flip side, when he does well and i need a reality check on being so wrong.

[mayotm]

He does more than run streaks now! He also stands around the line of scrimmage very well.He's still better than any WR on the Browns.

[Mr. Pink]

He's still better than any WR on the Browns.


And even still he's the most overpaid WR in football.

[justasportsfan]

I was hoping that someone else like Easely could step up go deep so we can move Lee around.

[mjt328]

And even still he's the most overpaid WR in football.

Who cares if he is overpaid or that he has holes in his game. It's not like the Bills are in salary cap trouble. And he's still a valuable part of the receiving group, if only for a veteran presence.

[mysticsoto]

And even still he's the most overpaid WR in football.

If he's drawing double teams from opponents, he can't be that overrated...they're scared of what he can do one on one!

[justasportsfan]

Who cares if he is overpaid or that he has holes in his game. It's not like the Bills are in salary cap trouble. And he's still a valuable part of the receiving group, if only for a veteran presence.

Teams still account for him which allows the other players like Stevie to get open. I'm excited about our recieving group and what Gailey and Fitz can do with it. If only we can fix our run game, our pass game will be even better.

[psubills62]

And even still he's the most overpaid WR in football.
Darrius Heyward-Bey.

[DraftBoy]

Not really sure I want Evans running across the middle. He's not a big guy and he's not a guy whose going to make you miss with loose hips. Prefer a guy like Easley to work the middle with Parrish and let Evans take the top off.

[Raptor]

Not really sure I want Evans running across the middle. He's not a big guy and he's not a guy whose going to make you miss with loose hips. Prefer a guy like Easley to work the middle with Parrish and let Evans take the top off.

I agree, and I agree with what the article said in that he is one of the best deep threats in the game. I dont care that he doesnt run over the middle if he is still drawing attention from opposing staffs and opening up things for Johnson and the rest of the WR's then so be it. Not every contribution shows up on the stat sheet

Why are we trying to make him something he's not at 29 years old? Plus With S.Johnson likely grabbing more attention this year it will likely start to open up things deep for Evans a lil more often

[DraftBoy]

I think a great play for us would be the image below (stolen from Madden) and sorry its grainy.

http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/661770/images/ace_crossin.jpg

A-Marcus Easley
R-Roscoe Parrish
B-Lee Evans
X-Steve Johnson

Let you're strongest WR deal with a potential jam and the ideal throw for us would be to spring Roscoe in the intermediate zone over the LB's and short of the S's where he can catch the ball and do his thing with the YAC.

[casdhf]

Evans running a slant would take a little of the heat off the long ball wouldn't it?

[Mr. Pink]

If he's drawing double teams from opponents, he can't be that overrated...they're scared of what he can do one on one!


He doesn't draw double teams.

This was discussed and proven to happen numerous times last season.

[justasportsfan]

Gailey and I talked about wide receiver Lee Evans and his lack of production the past two years. Gailey said teams continued to double cover Evans early in the season, but didn't do it as much by the middle of the year. Gailey wants Evans to improve his route running and Gailey said he needs to expand the kind of routes Evans runs.

"He’s been more of a deep threat," Gailey said. "I’ve got to get him to do a better job of becoming an underneath threat. I’ve got to do a better job of that."

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2011/03/breakfast-with-gailey.html

[trapezeus]

easley is the wild card. he is built like an ox and has speed (at least on paper). If he is the real deal, i wouldn't mind evans becoming the new lofton. Just go. You have easely in the reed role and then stevie johnson is a deadly 3rd WR. You send easley and johnson 10-15 yards down field and a TE or Parrish, you are creating a lot of room for a spiller to get dump offs and explode down the field.

As for the original post, evans is a one trick pony. that's my feeling. i don't know if it makes sense for him to be doing other things if we have other guys who can do it. if easley isn't what we expect, then evans should try and pick up the slack.

[justasportsfan]

As for the original post, evans is a one trick pony. that's my feeling. i don't know if it makes sense for him to be doing other things if we have other guys who can do it. if easley isn't what we expect, then evans should try and pick up the slack.
He was made into a one trick pony by the OC because no one else could run deep like he could but he can do it all. Would you like me to pull out videos of him making catches up the middle ,side to side because I can.

[trapezeus]

there are times that he's made over the middle catches. but he isn't a number 1 receiver that can be relied on game in and game out to make the best out the few touches he gets.

double teamed or not, other WR's with bad QB situations put up numbers. Evans has not.

I think he's best served as a speedster. the bills seemingly finally have a decent core of receivers and a QB who throws is and reads defenses fairly well.

he's not worth the money, but he's not worth getting rid of. there is a role for him. i just don't know if it makes sense to make him an all purpose receiver. he isn't built for it.

[justasportsfan]

there are times that he's made over the middle catches

that doesn't tell me he's a one trick pony. That tells me he wasn't asked to run those route but he can if asked to.



double teamed or not, other WR's with bad QB situations put up numbers. Evans has not.



then how come TO couldn't do anything here? Did you see what he did at Cincy? That Tells me that Lee would have had better nos. elsewhere too.

[trapezeus]

i think this is the losman/edwards debate that we used to have until we were proven that they both suck.

Evans, to me, has not made enough plays. and double coverage for an elite player isn't supposed to halt their production.

TO struggled because he mentally checked out of games. he played better in the fitz part of the season. I think we can all agree there is more than enough footage of him giving up on plays and not even getting in huddles in games. TO was also almost 10 years older on the other side of his career.

If evans new roles work out, great. if he gets hurt doing this stuff and they tried forcing something when they seemingly have a very diverse starting WR corp, it'll be frustrating.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

And even still he's the most overpaid WR in football.

Last year he was overpaid, the next two years he's a bargain. 3.5 million for his services is reasonable.

[DraftBoy]

Evans running a slant would take a little of the heat off the long ball wouldn't it?

Not sure, Evans is fast not quick and he's not strong. The ideal WR's for running slants are the quick cut guys or the guys that can run through arm tackles. Evans is neither of those.

[justasportsfan]

i think this is the losman/edwards debate that we used to have until we were proven that they both suck. .
no it isn't unless thats what you think.


Evans, to me, has not made enough plays. and double coverage for an elite player isn't supposed to halt their production. .
you cant make catches when the qb refuses to throw the ball.



TO struggled because he mentally checked out of games. he played better in the fitz part of the season. I think we can all agree there is more than enough footage of him giving up on plays and not even getting in huddles in games. TO was also almost 10 years older on the other side of his career. .
You're makiing assumptions while I'm stating FACT that he played well everywhere but here. His worst season ever was here. If someone like him can't do much. I don't expect Lee or anyone to do anything.

[DraftBoy]

Last year he was overpaid, the next two years he's a bargain. 3.5 million for his services is reasonable.

Also has a 1.5 roster bonus due so the number is closer to 5 not 3.5

[Danny Duberstein]

He's still better than any WR on the Browns.

That's debatable.

But even if it were true....is that really all that impressive? That he's better than any of the WR's that make up the league's worst WR corp?

[Danny Duberstein]

If he's drawing double teams from opponents, he can't be that overrated...they're scared of what he can do one on one!

um.....he isn't drawing double-teams anymore.

I guess it's hard to see on TV, so I'm not surprised that people think that. But I went to a lot of the games last year, and I always sat in the 300's, between the 40's. From up there, you can really watch the WR's/DB's...and I can tell you that Lee was definitely not drawing doubles, and the safeties usually shaded towards Stevie.

[Oaf]

"Easley" is trending like "Osama Bin Laden" was a few weeks ago. The guy is nothing more than Sam Aiken at this point.

[Danny Duberstein]

He was made into a one trick pony by the OC because no one else could run deep like he could but he can do it all. Would you like me to pull out videos of him making catches up the middle ,side to side because I can.

No.

The OC doesn't make Lee get manhandled by CB's, avoid contact, and not fight for balls over the middle. Any time the ball is thrown towards Lee in traffic, he lets the CB get in position to either break up the pass, or pick it off.

We all remember the one exception (the TD against the Jets), but that was only because his BFF J.P. came in, and he wanted JP over Trent.

[Danny Duberstein]

that doesn't tell me he's a one trick pony. That tells me he wasn't asked to run those route but he can if asked to.

We've had how many different coaches/OC's/QB's since Lee has been here, and his style hasn't changed a bit. That tells me it's Lee.



then how come TO couldn't do anything here? Did you see what he did at Cincy? That Tells me that Lee would have had better nos. elsewhere too.

Because Ocho was drawing most of the coverage, and Cincy had a strong running game? When T.O. was here, he was the best player on the field, so teams keyed in on him. In Cinci, that wasn't the case.

This isn't rocket science...

[Danny Duberstein]

you cant make catches when the qb refuses to throw the ball.


Why would any QB in their right mind throw to him on most plays? He's hardly ever wide open....and when he's not wide open, he lets the defenders bully him around, and break up the pass.

[Mr. Pink]

We've had how many different coaches/OC's/QB's since Lee has been here, and his style hasn't changed a bit. That tells me it's Lee.




Because Ocho was drawing most of the coverage, and Cincy had a strong running game? When T.O. was here, he was the best player on the field, so teams keyed in on him. In Cinci, that wasn't the case.

This isn't rocket science...


Nothing that happens on the field is the fault of the players, it's always the coaching. However this franchise has been outright putrid the last 4 coaching regimes. One day people are gonna wake up and realize the problem isn't the coaching, it's the talent or lack there of.

[better days]

Nothing that happens on the field is the fault of the players, it's always the coaching. However this franchise has been outright putrid the last 4 coaching regimes. One day people are gonna wake up and realize the problem isn't the coaching, it's the talent or lack there of.

Well, I would say the Bills have been mediocre the LAST 4 coaching regimes. The mediocrity was due to both coaching & lack of talent & we know at least Jauron was responsible for much of the lack of talent when he was here.

Now the Browns, since their reincarnation have been putrid.

[justasportsfan]

No.

The OC doesn't make Lee get manhandled by CB's, avoid contact, and not fight for balls over the middle. Any time the ball is thrown towards Lee in traffic, he lets the CB get in position to either break up the pass, or pick it off.

We all remember the one exception (the TD against the Jets), but that was only because his BFF J.P. came in, and he wanted JP over Trent.

Avoid contact? Lee is one of the best blocking wr in the league. Why would you make him jam himself too and lose his speed advantage?

[justasportsfan]

We've had how many different coaches/OC's/QB's since Lee has been here, and his style hasn't changed a bit. That tells me it's Lee.
funny you bring that up. Different coaches means there is no continuity. Different coaches didn't mean squat when the they are tied down by Dick's play not to lose philosophy. You CAN'T expect a wr like Lee to excell when the offensive philosophy is to be conservative.


I am not arguing that Lee is an elite player. MY argument is that under the circumstances, it's hard to grade anyone especially the offense when you have a coach like Dick Jauron who has PROVEN to have crappy offenses as a HC.




Because Ocho was drawing most of the coverage, and Cincy had a strong running game? When T.O. was here, he was the best player on the field, so teams keyed in on him. In Cinci, that wasn't the case.

This isn't rocket science...
Nope. Not only did TO play better with Fitz but the entire offense played better including Lee Evans.. FACTS Prove that. TO was not the main problem, Trent was.

lots of single coverage on TO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycdyFtAAcRc

[justasportsfan]

Why would any QB in their right mind throw to him on most plays? He's hardly ever wide open....and when he's not wide open, he lets the defenders bully him around, and break up the pass.
Don't know what you're watching .Again, he's one of the best blocking wr in the league.

Our wr's weren't always open last year either but our passing game was better because Fitz took chances. Trent Edwards didn't.

[justasportsfan]

Nothing that happens on the field is the fault of the players, it's always the coaching. However this franchise has been outright putrid the last 4 coaching regimes. One day people are gonna wake up and realize the problem isn't the coaching, it's the talent or lack there of.


WRONG! I've blamed players like POZ for being average. Maybin, TRENT EDWARDS, Mcargo, Whitner etc.

Since you bring up talent, who chose to bring in undersized defensive linemen to fit his defensive philosophy? AHA! Dick Jauron. THe coach.

Who chose to start players like Trent ? Dick Jauron.

Who chose a play not to lose philosophy? Dick Jauron!

Who has had a history of crappy offenses no matter what team he coached? Dick Jauron.

Who chose to play musical chairs with his offensive coordinators? Dick JAuron.

coaching was the biggest problem on this team.

The team played better all around when Fewell took over. He started by benching Jaurons annointed players and then became more aggressive.

Add that all together , DICK was the biggest problem. From chosing the talent to philosophy.


HOw I wish that Dick just was hired to be HC of the browns. Oh well. We shall see what he does as DC. Lucky for the bowns that he isn't in charge of chosing his players.

[trapezeus]

The team played better all around when Fewell took over. He started by benching Jaurons annointed players and then became more aggressive.



Yet evans continued to flounder. and you didn't want to give me that TO played better at the switch adn contested if he checked out or not.

All i'm saying is that evans is a long ball guy only. he doesn't have the elite over the middle capabilities. They can force it on him and we'll see how he does. perhaps he excels at it. If so, i'll give you credit.

if he continues to be an average overall receiver and has great long ball stats, then i expect the same back from you.

That's all from me on the topic.

[justasportsfan]

Yet evans continued to flounder. and you didn't want to give me that TO played better at the switch adn contested if he checked out or not..
read em and weep. There's another article that breaks it down but won't find it. This should suffice.

When Fitzpatrick took over the injured Edwards last season, he connected with Evans on four of his seven touchdowns and accounted for more than half of his receiving yards (341 of 612). Though his arm strength is considered equal to that of Edwards, the difference according to Evans is in Fitzpatrick's demeanor and willingness to go deep when he sees the opportunity. Tyler Diedrich of BuffaloBills.com broke down the reasons why Evans could see a bump in his production.


http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/23/bills-wr-lee-evans-clicks-better-with-qb-ryan-fitzpatrick/


All i'm saying is that evans is a long ball guy only.
wrong again. Here are FACTS that most of his catches were short to mid.
2006
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 48 442 9.2 21 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 1 Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 18 284 15.8 24 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 5 178 35.6 83 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 5 277 55.4 83 4 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 2 96 48.0 52 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0

2007
BY PASS PLAY REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
Pass Thrown: Behind line 3 9 3.0 4 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 27 229 8.5 16 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 19 312 16.4 30 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 3 90 30.0 38 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 2 139 69.5 85 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 1 70 70.0 70 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0

2008
Pass Thrown: Behind line 1 13 13.0 13 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 37 341 9.2 20 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 2 1 Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 16 272 17.0 34 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 4 124 31.0 37 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 3 129 43.0 49 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 41+ yds. 2 138 69.0 87 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0


2009
Pass Thrown: Behind line 2 6 3.0 3 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 24 203 8.5 37 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 10 140 14.0 21 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 5 146 29.2 38 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 2 67 33.5 35 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0

2010
Pass Thrown: Behind line 2 6 3.0 5 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 0
Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds. 16 133 8.3 17 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 1
Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds. 14 241 17.2 26 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds. 2 68 34.0 45 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds. 3 130 43.3 54 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0







he doesn't have the elite over the middle capabilities. .
never said he was. Just pointing out that you are wrong in thinking that he's a one trick pony and that he's a long ball only wr. Again the facts prove you're wrong.


[

[justasportsfan]

BTW, Don't forget that inspite of the fact that most of his catches weren't deep, how many times was he made to run deep? My guess is a lot.

[trapezeus]

those numbers that you think proved me wrong are pathetic for a number 1 receiver. you didn't prove anything. he's the king of the short bus for the time being.

[justasportsfan]

those numbers that you think proved me wrong are pathetic for a number 1 receiver. you didn't prove anything. he's the king of the short bus for the time being.

Anytime you have a qb like Trent and a coach like Jauron, everyones nos. will suffer. TO proved that.


Nope, I don't THINK it proved you wrong. I KNOW it proved you worng.

[trapezeus]

yep, you are absolutely right. Evans has been a game changing receiver since 2004 and has be influential in making the team a perenial playoff contender. He truly is a superstar receiver based on his 600+ yards of receiving and 40 catches a season.

I would hate to see a better player come to the bills because then it would mean harold camping is right and the angels will be walking besides us.

I will continue to believe in all the nonsense that justa puts out.

[mysticsoto]

yep, you are absolutely right. Evans has been a game changing receiver since 2004 and has be influential in making the team a perenial playoff contender. He truly is a superstar receiver based on his 600+ yards of receiving and 40 catches a season.

I would hate to see a better player come to the bills because then it would mean harold camping is right and the angels will be walking besides us.

I will continue to believe in all the nonsense that justa puts out.

With Trent Edwards throwing, an in-his-prime Jerry Rice would have had terrible stats!!!

We've had crappy QBs for years now. You can't just throw it all on Evans and say he's mediocre when we've had crap on someone who directly affects how he will look.

[trapezeus]

you can.

steve smith had delhomme passing to him and he carried that team on his back...

I just don't buy the stats only approach. evans can go missing for large chunks of seasons.

edwards was not as bad until his tail end of his last full season adn the two remaining games. he moved the team around efficiently at first, and evans was nowhere to be found. but parrish and reed succeeded. perhaps not with great numbers, but they were useful.

in my mind, evans never lived up to the hype. i'm not entirely sure if he would be better with a better qb. even with losman, he wasn't a clutch receiver that you knew could have big games. he'd have a game here or there.

is that worth $9mm to you?

that being said, he's not worthless. i think you still just use him on the long routes. that's his worth. stretch the field.

[better days]

you can.

steve smith had delhomme passing to him and he carried that team on his back...

I just don't buy the stats only approach. evans can go missing for large chunks of seasons.

edwards was not as bad until his tail end of his last full season adn the two remaining games. he moved the team around efficiently at first, and evans was nowhere to be found. but parrish and reed succeeded. perhaps not with great numbers, but they were useful.

in my mind, evans never lived up to the hype. i'm not entirely sure if he would be better with a better qb. even with losman, he wasn't a clutch receiver that you knew could have big games. he'd have a game here or there.

is that worth $9mm to you?

that being said, he's not worthless. i think you still just use him on the long routes. that's his worth. stretch the field.

Delhome was not all that bad. In fact in his prime, which he was with Smith as his #1 WR for a # of years, Delhome was far better than any QB Evans has ever had. Last year with Clausen & the others, Smith had: 46 receptions, 554 Yds, 2 TD's.

[wozrob11]

Evans best days are behind him wheather it was the QB situation or not he is very close to being a bum! He is not worth the money he s getting this year ! and if i knew my job was in jerordary and there was some young up and coming talent drooling to get a spot i would "REROUTE" my game to. so what can we get for him realisticly before the trade dead line? WAS that to harsh? sorry Lee

[Mr. Pink]

The numbers justa provided proves my point.

Evans either floats around the line of scrimmage or runs deep.

[justasportsfan]

The numbers justa provided proves my point.

Evans either floats around the line of scrimmage or runs deep.


na it proves that dick blows. Glad he's with your Browns. :roflmao:

[YardRat]

This is why Evan's isn't a true #1 wide receiver. Guys like Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss aren't 'rerouting' their games eight years into their careers.

[better days]

This is why Evan's isn't a true #1 wide receiver. Guys like Andre Reed, Jerry Rice, Randy Moss aren't 'rerouting' their games eight years into their careers.

What are you talking about? The wheels fell off Moss last year as soon as he lost Brady. The only other time he was any good was when he had Culpepper throwing him bombs. Reed & Rice had Kelly & Montana/Young their entire careers.

[justasportsfan]

What are you talking about? The wheels fell off Moss last year as soon as he lost Brady. The only other time he was any good was when he had Culpepper throwing him bombs. Reed & Rice had Kelly & Montana/Young their entire careers.

Reed had other qbs but he was never the same without Kelly.

[YardRat]

What are you talking about? The wheels fell off Moss last year as soon as he lost Brady. The only other time he was any good was when he had Culpepper throwing him bombs. Reed & Rice had Kelly & Montana/Young their entire careers.

Moss and Rice both played with multiple QB's, and for multiple HC's.

[YardRat]

Reed had other qbs but he was never the same without Kelly.

Reed was pretty good with Reich, also.

[better days]

Moss and Rice both played with multiple QB's, and for multiple HC's.

Yeah, & neither played all that well without the GREAT QB throwing them the ball. Moss was TERRIBLE last year after he left the Pats* he was also terrible with the Raiders. His name was the only thing that kept Rice playing after he left the 49ers because he had no game.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah, & neither played all that well without the GREAT QB throwing them the ball. Moss was TERRIBLE last year after he left the Pats* he was also terrible with the Raiders. His name was the only thing that kept Rice playing after he left the 49ers because he had no game.

One has to ask though for as bad as Moss was after New England last year was it because his game has gone sour or because he just didnt want to try anymore.

For me its option 2, Moss showed all he needed to last year when he gave Revis the hand and then smoked him. When he wants to play he's still got it.

[Mr. Pink]

you can.

steve smith had delhomme passing to him and he carried that team on his back...

I just don't buy the stats only approach. evans can go missing for large chunks of seasons.

edwards was not as bad until his tail end of his last full season adn the two remaining games. he moved the team around efficiently at first, and evans was nowhere to be found. but parrish and reed succeeded. perhaps not with great numbers, but they were useful.

in my mind, evans never lived up to the hype. i'm not entirely sure if he would be better with a better qb. even with losman, he wasn't a clutch receiver that you knew could have big games. he'd have a game here or there.

is that worth $9mm to you?

that being said, he's not worthless. i think you still just use him on the long routes. that's his worth. stretch the field.

A-men.

Roddy White had freakin' Joey Harrington, Chris Redmon and Byron Leftwich throwing him the rock the year he had 83 catches 1202 yards and 6TDs.

There are plenty of receivers on bad teams with poor QBs who put up numbers but not Evans. Evans though gets a TON of excuses from the fans of this team. It baffles me.

Although I do disagree slightly, Evans is basically worthless. He's basically a slower version of Az-Zahir Hakim. Another guy who all he did was run deep routes or hover around the LOS.

[Mr. Pink]

Delhome was not all that bad. In fact in his prime, which he was with Smith as his #1 WR for a # of years, Delhome was far better than any QB Evans has ever had. Last year with Clausen & the others, Smith had: 46 receptions, 554 Yds, 2 TD's.


Meanwhile a guy like Calvin Johnson can put up 78 1331 12 on an 0-16 Lions team that had Orlovsky, Kitna, Culpepper throwing him the ball.

All 3 of those QBs at the time were as bad as the guys Lee has had throwing him the rock.

[better days]

One has to ask though for as bad as Moss was after New England last year was it because his game has gone sour or because he just didnt want to try anymore.

For me its option 2, Moss showed all he needed to last year when he gave Revis the hand and then smoked him. When he wants to play he's still got it.

Well, even if he can play well when he wants to, who wants a guy on their team that only plays when he feels like it?

I think Moss is a guy that needs the kind of discipline the Pats* provided in order to play his best because he is not self motivated.

In any case, without a good QB to get him the ball, his numbers would suffer like they do with all good receivers with bad QBs.

[mysticsoto]

Let's not forget the revolving door Oline we've had for nearly a decade also. Pucillo (Worst lineman ever) ? Not-good-enough-to-even-be-backup Kirk Chambers? T-Rex arms Duke Preston? I-came-to-Buffalo-for-the-wings Bennie Anderson? Fat-ass-worst-pick-ever Mike Williams?

We've had a worst Oline than most of those teams mentioned - And that combined with crappy QB'ing has been the BIGGEST part of the problem!!!

[Mr. Pink]

In any case, without a good QB to get him the ball, his numbers would suffer like they do with all good receivers with bad QBs.

That is just outright false. I already provided two examples that completely disprove that point and can provide many others. I can even provide marginally talented WRs who put up numbers just as good as Lee has who also had bad QBs.

[Mr. Pink]

Let's not forget the revolving door Oline we've had for nearly a decade also. Pucillo (Worst lineman ever) ? Not-good-enough-to-even-be-backup Kirk Chambers? T-Rex arms Duke Preston? I-came-to-Buffalo-for-the-wings Bennie Anderson? Fat-ass-worst-pick-ever Mike Williams?

We've had a worst Oline than most of those teams mentioned - And that combined with crappy QB'ing has been the BIGGEST part of the problem!!!


Do you really want to try to go there?

Detroit Lions 2008 when Calvin Johnson put up huge numbers the Lions allowed 52 sacks. Lets compare shall we?

Roddy White 2007 with Harrington, Redman, Culpepper 83 1202 6, the QBs combined to be sacked 47 times.

Lee Evans best season was 2006, Losman was sacked 47 times. Evans numbers that year 82 1292 8.

2001 Cleveland Browns...Kevin Johnson 84 1097 9. Tim Couch was sacked 51 times.

The plethora of excuses Evans gets astounds me.

[justasportsfan]

Reed was pretty good with Reich, also.

Even with Reich, Reed had the same system ,same supporting cast. The minute all of that changed, he had no.2 numbers.

[justasportsfan]

A-men.

Roddy White had freakin' Joey Harrington, Chris Redmon and Byron Leftwich throwing him the rock the year he had 83 catches 1202 yards and 6TDs.

There are plenty of receivers on bad teams with poor QBs who put up numbers but not Evans. Evans though gets a TON of excuses from the fans of this team. It baffles me.

Although I do disagree slightly, Evans is basically worthless. He's basically a slower version of Az-Zahir Hakim. Another guy who all he did was run deep routes or hover around the LOS.


the difference is, all those qb's were willing to throw the ball. Even Harrington.

Lee and TO have proven that if you have a different qb other than Trent and a HC other than Jauron your nos. improve.


Trent with Jags. 12 for 25 140 yards.

[better days]

That is just outright false. I already provided two examples that completely disprove that point and can provide many others. I can even provide marginally talented WRs who put up numbers just as good as Lee has who also had bad QBs.

The QB's you named were better QB's than the QB's Evans has had. Also the O-line & offense has to be taken into consideration when evaluating WR's.

Anyone that thinks a WR would catch as many balls from a bad QB as they would from a good QB is just not being logical.

[mysticsoto]

Do you really want to try to go there?

Detroit Lions 2008 when Calvin Johnson put up huge numbers the Lions allowed 52 sacks. Lets compare shall we?

Roddy White 2007 with Harrington, Redman, Culpepper 83 1202 6, the QBs combined to be sacked 47 times.

Lee Evans best season was 2006, Losman was sacked 47 times. Evans numbers that year 82 1292 8.

2001 Cleveland Browns...Kevin Johnson 84 1097 9. Tim Couch was sacked 51 times.

The plethora of excuses Evans gets astounds me.
Yeah, you forget, Trent the-timid I-never-recovered-from-my-concussion was the QB throwing.!!! It's a combination!!! And sacks don't always tell the whole story either. You can be hurried alot or throw the ball away to avoid the sack and not have that show up as a statistic.

Btw, I found this tidbit about Lee when he was moved to the slot under Schonert's plan:


It turns out the metrics say there were times when Schonert’s plan actually worked rather well. For example, Lee Evans is rightfully thought of as a great vertical threat, but Schonert decided to get him more involved in the offense as a slot receiver. This tactic worked like a charm; Evans caught 14 of the 18 passes thrown to him in the slot and gained 198 yards. That equates to 11.0 yards per attempt, which is tremendous when you consider that the best wideouts in the league will normally average around 10.0 YPA in a season.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/the-bills-offense-and-the-limits-of-spreading-it-around/

If you look at Evan's statistics, he's averaging almost 16 yds/catch - which is excellent. He just needs to have the ball thrown more his way. Last year, Fitz connected more with Stevie and I have no problem with that if they are in sync - QBs do develop favoritism sometimes but clearly, when Evans is given a chance, he produces.

[Mr. Pink]

The QB's you named were better QB's than the QB's Evans has had. Also the O-line & offense has to be taken into consideration when evaluating WR's.

Anyone that thinks a WR would catch as many balls from a bad QB as they would from a good QB is just not being logical.


The 2008 Detroit Lions were an 0-16 football team...you don't go 0-16 without being bad all over the field. Even Calvin Johnson on that team didn't just disappear. Why? Because he is an elite WR something Evans can never dream of being.

Lions QBs that year 281 of 509 6.5 YPA. 3299 total yards passing 18 TDs

Lee Evans we'll go with this past season...

Evans numbers 37 578 4

Fitzpatrick/Edwards numbers 296 of 519 6.5 YPA 3371 total yards passing 24 TDs

Care to retract your viewpoint yet? Do you need more examples?

[justasportsfan]

The 2008 Detroit Lions were an 0-16 football team...you don't go 0-16 without being bad all over the field. Even Calvin Johnson on that team didn't just disappear. Why? Because he is an elite WR something Evans can never dream of being.

Lions QBs that year 281 of 509 6.5 YPA. 3299 total yards passing 18 TDs

Lee Evans we'll go with this past season...

Evans numbers 37 578 4

Fitzpatrick/Edwards numbers 296 of 519 6.5 YPA 3371 total yards passing 24 TDs

Care to retract your viewpoint yet? Do you need more examples?


Calvin JOhnsons nos. would have suffered with Trent at qb.

Detroit lions qb >>>>> Trent.

[k-oneputt]

What did Fitzgerald do in Arizona after Warner left ??

Evans is the least of the problems. He was never a #1 in my book, I always considered him a good #2 anyways.
So Ralph overpaid him, bug deal, our salary cap is still low compared to many other teams.

[better days]

The 2008 Detroit Lions were an 0-16 football team...you don't go 0-16 without being bad all over the field. Even Calvin Johnson on that team didn't just disappear. Why? Because he is an elite WR something Evans can never dream of being.

Lions QBs that year 281 of 509 6.5 YPA. 3299 total yards passing 18 TDs

Lee Evans we'll go with this past season...

Evans numbers 37 578 4

Fitzpatrick/Edwards numbers 296 of 519 6.5 YPA 3371 total yards passing 24 TDs

Care to retract your viewpoint yet? Do you need more examples?

Here is an example for you, Steve Smith last year: 46 receptions 554 yds 2 TD's. And Smith was the primary receiver on that team, unlike Evans was last year.

Look at your own team, the Browns, since Winslow left the Browns & their CRAPPY QB's his career has gotten back on track with a GOOD QB in Freeman. And he is playing with some good receivers as well.

A good QB & a good offensive system make a big difference in WR play.

[justasportsfan]

A good QB & a good offensive system make a big difference in WR play.

here's FTY quote regarding the hiring of Dick by browns


Defense wasn't the problem here when he was HC it was Offense and mainly QB play..


so if qb play was a problem, it's easy to see that everything else is affected.

[mysticsoto]

The 2008 Detroit Lions were an 0-16 football team...you don't go 0-16 without being bad all over the field. Even Calvin Johnson on that team didn't just disappear. Why? Because he is an elite WR something Evans can never dream of being.

Lions QBs that year 281 of 509 6.5 YPA. 3299 total yards passing 18 TDs

Lee Evans we'll go with this past season...

Evans numbers 37 578 4

Fitzpatrick/Edwards numbers 296 of 519 6.5 YPA 3371 total yards passing 24 TDs

Care to retract your viewpoint yet? Do you need more examples?

Calvin Johnson in 2008 had 78 receptions and averaged 17 yds/catch.

Evans consistently averages close to 16 yds/catch. This past year only had 37 receptions b'cse of how little the ball was thrown his way. Admittedly, he was out for 3 games this year, but except for the one season where he and JP were connecting, he's been averaging upper 40s/low 50s...significantly under the receptions Calvin Johnson is getting.

I like that you take Calvin Johnson's top season and compare to this past year for Evans. Maybe I should do the same - except I'll take Trent's worst season to make a point: In 2009, Trent had 110 completions...in the entire season!!!

What happened in 2009 to Calvin? 67 receptions for 984 yds
2007? 48 receptions for 756 yds.

So, apparently, there's a correlation (or actually causation) effect that the less receptions you have, the less yards you have. And when you have a QB with 110 completions in an entire season, chances are, your receptions have diminished greatly also.

Now, do I need to use sock puppets to explain this any further?

[trapezeus]

evans, if not on a team with so many 1st round busts would be looked at as not living up to expectations.

i like that when trent played well, evans did not. up until the concussion, edwards moved the ball around. this "he didn't thow it long ever" was more a cariciture of his later times when he literally lost all will to play. but in his initial replacement of losman, he was a better qb than losman. evans disappeared.

whoever said that evans is not on the downside of his career is right. he's 30 with a receiving corp much younger behind him.

i think his success will lie with him doing what he does best and hope that the younger guys help open up the middle game.

once the secondary has to deal with a real over the middle threat and a possible run game, evans long ball skills will be huge. he will be running 1 on 1 with safety coverage that can't always roll over to his side of field.

if they ask him to do extra routes this year, he will continue to be a mid level WR.

also, for anyone who ever has had the misfortune of having evans on their fantasy team....tell me which excuses you like to use for having him be a bench warmer?

[justasportsfan]

i like that when trent played well, evans did not.


but Trents dink and dunk go to guy did well. Josh Reed.

TO didn't play well unti Fitz became the qb.

[mysticsoto]

evans, if not on a team with so many 1st round busts would be looked at as not living up to expectations.

i like that when trent played well, evans did not. up until the concussion, edwards moved the ball around. this "he didn't thow it long ever" was more a cariciture of his later times when he literally lost all will to play. but in his initial replacement of losman, he was a better qb than losman. evans disappeared.

whoever said that evans is not on the downside of his career is right. he's 30 with a receiving corp much younger behind him.

i think his success will lie with him doing what he does best and hope that the younger guys help open up the middle game.

once the secondary has to deal with a real over the middle threat and a possible run game, evans long ball skills will be huge. he will be running 1 on 1 with safety coverage that can't always roll over to his side of field.

if they ask him to do extra routes this year, he will continue to be a mid level WR.

also, for anyone who ever has had the misfortune of having evans on their fantasy team....tell me which excuses you like to use for having him be a bench warmer?

Where are you getting this, "When Trent played well Evans did not" crap?

Trent's best year was 2008. Evans had a respectable year also:

2008:
Trent: 2699 yds. Avg pass 7.2 yds.
Evans: 63 receptions for 1017 yds.

Trent did not have any other good year since his start in 2007.


JP and Evans had a great 2006 yr however before Trent came on:

JP: 3051 yds. Avg pass 7.1 yds
Evans: 82 receptions for 1292 yds.


This isn't meant to be a JP vs Edwards thread. Just a show that there is a correlation between QB and WRs. When the QBs played well, Evans numbers were good. When they didn't his numbers reflected it.

It's common sense to me...I'm not sure how else to explain it.

[justasportsfan]

Where are you getting this, "When Trent played well Evans did not" crap?


trap dislikes Evans because he preferred JP and Trap is a Trent fan.

[mysticsoto]

trap dislikes Evans because he preferred JP and Trap is a Trent fan.

He's a Trent fan? Who in their right mind is a Trent fan? For what reason, Trap???

[justasportsfan]

He's a Trent fan? Who in their right mind is a Trent fan? For what reason, Trap???


to be fair, I was high on Trent too. He just lost his cojones somewhere along the way.

[DraftBoy]

Well, even if he can play well when he wants to, who wants a guy on their team that only plays when he feels like it?

I think Moss is a guy that needs the kind of discipline the Pats* provided in order to play his best because he is not self motivated.

In any case, without a good QB to get him the ball, his numbers would suffer like they do with all good receivers with bad QBs.

Im not saying I want him or don't Im just saying Moss' statistical decline last season after the Pats parted ways was not because he had lost his game or had a lesser QB tossing him the ball.

[mysticsoto]

to be fair, I was high on Trent too. He just lost his cojones somewhere along the way.

Hey, I wanted him to succeed as I've wanted every bills player to succeed. But in 2009, I realized it just wasn't going to happen. I was angry that he was still the starter at the start of 2010, but glad to see that they recognized his inadequacies quickly and pulled him.

[Mr. Pink]

Calvin Johnson in 2008 had 78 receptions and averaged 17 yds/catch.

Evans consistently averages close to 16 yds/catch. This past year only had 37 receptions b'cse of how little the ball was thrown his way. Admittedly, he was out for 3 games this year, but except for the one season where he and JP were connecting, he's been averaging upper 40s/low 50s...significantly under the receptions Calvin Johnson is getting.

I like that you take Calvin Johnson's top season and compare to this past year for Evans. Maybe I should do the same - except I'll take Trent's worst season to make a point: In 2009, Trent had 110 completions...in the entire season!!!

What happened in 2009 to Calvin? 67 receptions for 984 yds
2007? 48 receptions for 756 yds.

So, apparently, there's a correlation (or actually causation) effect that the less receptions you have, the less yards you have. And when you have a QB with 110 completions in an entire season, chances are, your receptions have diminished greatly also.

Now, do I need to use sock puppets to explain this any further?

Calvin only played 14 games in 09 and was only a starter for 10 games in 07. Put Calvin on the field for all of 2009 and what happens? approximately 77 catches for 1150 yards.

Meanwhile put Lee Evans on the field for all of 2010 and you get approximately 45 catches for 700 yards.

The sad part is as a rookie who didn't starter every game Calvin outperformed 3 of Lee Evans 7 seasons.

[Mr. Pink]

Calvin JOhnsons nos. would have suffered with Trent at qb.

Detroit lions qb >>>>> Trent.


:rofl:

Bills QBs outperformed the Lions QBs in the 2 seasons I presented.

More yards, more attempts, more completions, more TDs.

But the Lions QBs were better?!? Ok!

[Mr. Pink]

What did Fitzgerald do in Arizona after Warner left ??

Evans is the least of the problems. He was never a #1 in my book, I always considered him a good #2 anyways.
So Ralph overpaid him, bug deal, our salary cap is still low compared to many other teams.


What did Fitzgerald do?

Oh, just 90 catches 1137 yards and 6 TDs.

Nothing much.

[Mr. Pink]

Here is an example for you, Steve Smith last year: 46 receptions 554 yds 2 TD's. And Smith was the primary receiver on that team, unlike Evans was last year.

Look at your own team, the Browns, since Winslow left the Browns & their CRAPPY QB's his career has gotten back on track with a GOOD QB in Freeman. And he is playing with some good receivers as well.

A good QB & a good offensive system make a big difference in WR play.


Wow, really?

I'll compare full seasons here, worst Browns full season, best Bucs full season...

89 catches 875 yards 3 TDs
77 catches 884 yards 5 TDs

Which is which?

[Mr. Pink]

here's FTY quote regarding the hiring of Dick by browns




so if qb play was a problem, it's easy to see that everything else is affected.


qb is the problem, but other receivers in this league don't completely disappear for years on end just because they have a bad QB throwing the ball. There is plenty of guys who completely disprove that theory.

[k-oneputt]

What did Fitzgerald do?

Oh, just 90 catches 1137 yards and 6 TDs.

Nothing much.

Maybe you noticed that this team didn't sniff the play-offs let alone the Super Bowl again ?
Wr's are dime a dozen. About the qb.

[Mr. Pink]

Maybe you noticed that this team didn't sniff the play-offs let alone the Super Bowl again ?
Wr's are dime a dozen. About the qb.


The point of the thread isn't about a "team" it's about WRs.

You tried to, and failed, make a point that Fitzgerald suffered because Warner was gone when he did not.

[k-oneputt]

The "point" is that wr's are not even important. There are plenty of wr's around.
Whether a team wins or not is not about the wr's. They are third at least behind the qb and o-line on the offense alone. The Bills wr's are good enough.
So what difference does it even make ?

[Mr. Pink]

The "point" is that wr's are not even important. There are plenty of wr's around.
Whether a team wins or not is not about the wr's. They are third at least behind the qb and o-line on the offense alone. The Bills wr's are good enough.
So what difference does it even make ?

If that's your real opinion why make a post about Fitzgerald suffering cause Warner left?

[k-oneputt]

If that's your real opinion why make a post about Fitzgerald suffering cause Warner left?

Isn't it your opinion ? Or are you one of those fantasy guys who think you win games with wr's and rb's.

So he put up numbers in the 2nd half when they are already losing big, who cares.

Evans is still the best wr on the team, and overpaid. If he left though I really wouldn't care that much since I know they can find someone close in ability.
Ther are about a half dozen wr's in the league that are a cut above and thats it.

[Mr. Pink]

Isn't it your opinion ? Or are you one of those fantasy guys who think you win games with wr's and rb's.

So he put up numbers in the 2nd half when they are already losing big, who cares.

Evans is still the best wr on the team, and overpaid. If he left though I really wouldn't care that much since I know they can find someone close in ability.
Ther are about a half dozen wr's in the league that are a cut above and thats it.


Hey, I'm not the one who posted that Fitzgerald suffered because Warner left...you did. But keep trying to turn it around.

My entire point this thread is true number 1 WRs put up numbers regardless of who's behind center seeing this board and most Bills fans for that matter give Lee Evans a pass and excuses for some reason even though he's done basically jack squat over his career.

[mysticsoto]

:rofl:

Bills QBs outperformed the Lions QBs in the 2 seasons I presented.

More yards, more attempts, more completions, more TDs.

But the Lions QBs were better?!? Ok!

Cherry picking the data so that it looks like the Bills QBs are better isn't going to help your case. Trent had 110 completions in 2009 for the entire season. I'm not sure what else can tell you that there were QB issues on the team???

Kitna had over 4000 yds in 2007 by the way.

In 2008 Orlovsky had > 1600 yds. + Kitna's > 750 yds - this was their worst year and Trent's only good year. Considering he was incapable of repeating means this was an anomaly for Trent. Not the norm.

In 2009 Stafford had > 2200 yds

IN 2010 Stafford had > 500 yds + Shaun Hill > 2600 yds...

So...what they hell are you talking about our QBs were better than the Lions.

And for the record, this is a bad comparison anyway, b'cse I don't think anybody here is saying Lee Evans is elite. Calvin Johnson is an elite WR at 6'5". Lee Evans is not elite at 5'10" but he's good. On another team, he'd have outstanding stats. Sadly, like many that come here, they are overshadowed by the poor surrounding cast that has been around for the last decade.

[Mr. Pink]

Cherry picking the data so that it looks like the Bills QBs are better isn't going to help your case. Trent had 110 completions in 2009 for the entire season. I'm not sure what else can tell you that there were QB issues on the team???

Kitna had over 4000 yds in 2007 by the way.

In 2008 Orlovsky had > 1600 yds. + Kitna's > 750 yds - this was their worst year and Trent's only good year. Considering he was incapable of repeating means this was an anomaly for Trent. Not the norm.

In 2009 Stafford had > 2200 yds

IN 2010 Stafford had > 500 yds + Shaun Hill > 2600 yds...

So...what they hell are you talking about our QBs were better than the Lions.

And for the record, this is a bad comparison anyway, b'cse I don't think anybody here is saying Lee Evans is elite. Calvin Johnson is an elite WR at 6'5". Lee Evans is not elite at 5'10" but he's good. On another team, he'd have outstanding stats. Sadly, like many that come here, they are overshadowed by the poor surrounding cast that has been around for the last decade.

On another team he'd never have a thousand yard season...he'd be buried on the depth chart.

And the Buffalo Bills called Lee Evans elite the day they signed him to a ridiculous contract, not me, not you, not anyone else who's a fan.

[k-oneputt]

Hey, I'm not the one who posted that Fitzgerald suffered because Warner left...you did. But keep trying to turn it around.

My entire point this thread is true number 1 WRs put up numbers regardless of who's behind center seeing this board and most Bills fans for that matter give Lee Evans a pass and excuses for some reason even though he's done basically jack squat over his career.

I think you had better look into Fitz, the Cards, and losing Warner last season a little more. Go ahead and google, Fitz and media were *****ing all year.

Either way, I'm not giving Evans a pass, but I'm really not concerned with him or any of the wr's for that matter. They are good enough to win with and are not the problem.

[Mr. Pink]

I think you had better look into Fitz, the Cards, and losing Warner last season a little more. Go ahead and google, Fitz and media were *****ing all year.

Either way, I'm not giving Evans a pass, but I'm really not concerned with him or any of the wr's for that matter. They are good enough to win with and are not the problem.


And he still put up numbers regardless of how he felt about the team, he didn't just disappear and decide not to contribute.

[k-oneputt]

And he still put up numbers regardless of how he felt about the team, he didn't just disappear and decide not to contribute.

Didn't disappear, but didn't put up numbers like 2007-2009 either.

And he is one of the few elite wr's in the league.

Evans is just one of the many time a dozen good wr's around.

[mysticsoto]

On another team he'd never have a thousand yard season...he'd be buried on the depth chart.

And the Buffalo Bills called Lee Evans elite the day they signed him to a ridiculous contract, not me, not you, not anyone else who's a fan.

I guess you must know more than Belichek - a quote on a postgame interview:


...you can't really put too much anywhere because they have too many guys but you have to be aware of where Evans is - he is a big player.

[Mr. Pink]

I guess you must know more than Belichek - a quote on a postgame interview:


:rofl:

Yeah, Belichick pressers are something to put a lot of stock in.

He talks up whoever they play and talks down his team, regardless of who they play.

[mysticsoto]

A reminder of how games were under Trent:



Evans' comments came as Bills players returned to practice for the first time since coach Chan Gailey announced the quarterback change Monday. The move came a day after a 34-7 loss at Green Bay in which the offense managed just 186 yards -- 20 more than it had in a 15-10 loss to Miami a week earlier -- and Edwards threw two interceptions and was sacked four times.


Though Gailey said not all the blame should be placed on Edwards, he made the switch in a bid to kick-start an offense as Buffalo prepares to play at AFC East rival New England this weekend.


Evans didn't blame Edwards, but also didn't go out of his way to say anything to support the fourth-year player. And this came after a game in which Evans was thrown to only once -- leading to a pass interference penalty -- and held without a catch for only the third time in his career.

[Mr. Pink]

It's hard to get the ball when you don't get open!

[mysticsoto]

:rofl:

Yeah, Belichick pressers are something to put a lot of stock in.

He talks up whoever they play and talks down his team, regardless of who they play.

Andre Reed also disagrees with you...but what does he know about being a WR...

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/2/2/1970526/former-bills-wr-andre-reed-defends-lee-evans

[mysticsoto]

It's hard to get the ball when you don't get open!

Or when nobody throws you the ball...

[Mr. Pink]

Andre Reed also disagrees with you...but what does he know about being a WR...

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/2/2/1970526/former-bills-wr-andre-reed-defends-lee-evans


Yes Andre Reed is gonna call out a player or say bad things about him!

Look at the stats, it's not a one year anomaly. The anomaly is Lee having a good year but hey he parlayed that into being a multi-millionaire so he can laugh all the way to the bank as he doesn't get any separation down field.

Every player has a bad or down year, it's part of the game, but good players don't have down year after down year after down year regardless of what they have around them.

[mysticsoto]

Yes Andre Reed is gonna call out a player or say bad things about him!

Look at the stats, it's not a one year anomaly. The anomaly is Lee having a good year but hey he parlayed that into being a multi-millionaire so he can laugh all the way to the bank as he doesn't get any separation down field.

Every player has a bad or down year, it's part of the game, but good players don't have down year after down year after down year regardless of what they have around them.

Andre Reed doesn't have anything invested in Lee Evans to say either way. He could just as well have called him out...thrown him under the bus, etc.

No separation? I'm guessing JP would disagree with you based on experience...

That's pretty funny. "Look at the stats" for Lee Evans, but ignore the stats of Trent Edwards and our perennially crappy Oline...

[mysticsoto]

Many people recognize that Evans would be a star elsewhere:
____________________________________________________________
[/URL]


[URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/14646/lee-evans"]Lee Evans: Star cloaked in Buffalo's fog (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/14646/lee-evans)


.
.
.
Evans is entering his seventh season. While he's respected around the league for his speed, hands and character, he still hasn't emerged as a star.

"Absolutely, I have something to prove," Evans told me after Wednesday's early practice to open Buffalo's mandatory minicamp. "The reality of it is, I haven't done anything yet."

Neither have the Bills. That's the primary reason Evans hasn't broken out.

Since he joined the Bills, they've failed to reach the playoffs. They've had one winning season, when he was a rookie. Their cumulative record with Evans on the roster is 41-55. They're on their fourth head coach and umpteenth offensive coordinator.

In Evans' six seasons, Buffalo's offense has ranked 25th, 28th, 30th, 30th, 25th and 30th.

Evans has had four starting quarterbacks -- Trent Edwards (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10536), J.P. Losman (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5547), Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8664) and Brian Brohm (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11290) -- over the past two seasons and doesn't know who'll be throwing to him in 2010.

"Like Steve Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2622) with the Carolina Panthers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=car) and St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) running back Steven Jackson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5549), Evans is right at the top of my list of guys who I would love to see on another team," Scouts Inc. analyst Matt Williamson said. "I think he could be a monster and perennial Pro Bowler in a much better situation."


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/14646/lee-evans

[justasportsfan]

It's hard to get the ball when you don't get open!
tell that to Fitz who takes chances in tight spaces even when the wr is not open.

[justasportsfan]

qb is the problem, .


say that again? :D



but other receivers in this league don't completely disappear for years on end just because they have a bad QB throwing the ball. There is plenty of guys who completely disprove that theory..
thats because they didn't have Trent. Notice that TO disappeared when Trent was his qb? Notice that the jags had only 140 yards when Trent was their qb?

[Mr. Pink]

say that again? :D



thats because they didn't have Trent. Notice that TO disappeared when Trent was his qb? Notice that the jags had only 140 yards when Trent was their qb?


Trent Edwards isn't the only bad QB the NFL has ever had. Lots of teams have had their main problem be QB and haven't had their number 1 WR completely disappear for years like what happened here.

[Mr. Pink]

Many people recognize that Evans would be a star elsewhere:
____________________________________________________________



I'd love to see him on another team too so people who have rode his nuts for all these years finally realize he only had the good seasons he did because he was the only weapon in the offense and the only guy Losman really threw to.

Outside of Cleveland, Buffalo is the only place Lee Evans is a number 1 WR, and trust me that ain't saying much.

[justasportsfan]

Trent Edwards isn't the only bad QB the NFL has ever had. Lots of teams have had their main problem be QB and haven't had their number 1 WR completely disappear for years like what happened here.

doesnt matter, you acknowledged that the qb was the problem and that directly affects the wr position. I don't care what others did, I don't have to redirect it elsewhere. I only have to look inhouse. Even if we took Evans out of the equation, TO had his worse season ever because of Trent.

[Mr. Pink]

doesnt matter, you acknowledged that the qb was the problem and that directly affects the wr position. I don't care what others did, I don't have to redirect it elsewhere. I only have to look inhouse. Even if we took Evans out of the equation, TO had his worse season ever because of Trent.


I'd say second worse but there's really no difference between the two years...and oddly enough TOs season here was better than what Lee does on average.

Meanwhile, you can take Stevie Johnsons 2010 campaign and put it up against Lee Evans 09 and 10 campaigns combined and they're almost identical, also sad.

[justasportsfan]

I'd say second worse but there's really no difference between the two years...and oddly enough TOs season here was better than what Lee does on average.

Meanwhile, you can take Stevie Johnsons 2010 campaign and put it up against Lee Evans 09 and 10 campaigns combined and they're almost identical, also sad.


2010 the team played like crap with Trent the first 2 games even though Trent played with the 1st teamers the entire camp. All of a suddent they score 30+ pts vs. the pats with Fitz at qb. :rolleyes:

Speaking of Strevie, he was a nobody when Trent was the qb. See a trend there? :snicker:

[Mr. Pink]

the team played like crap with Trent the first 2 games even though Trent played with the 1st teamers the entire camp. All of a suddent they score 30+ pts vs. the pats.

Speaking of Strevie, he was a nobody when Trent was the qb. See a trend there? :snicker:


So just blame the entire team sucking because of Trent Edwards, that way no one gets their own blame!

Joe Montana in his prime wouldn't win football games with the cast of misfits this team has, which includes WR.

[justasportsfan]

So just blame the entire team sucking because of Trent Edwards, that way no one gets their own blame!

Joe Montana in his prime wouldn't win football games with the cast of misfits this team has, which includes WR.

I've always stated that the bills need to fix the OL. It's already been stated that the OL problem also affect sthe wr's. I agree.

BTW in case you missed i't, I also blamed the coach DICK JAURON.



last year vs. MIami. LAst play of the game. Bills needed a 1st down to keep the game going.


1-10-BUF 20 (:29) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 22-F.Jackson. Underthrown, receiver at BUF 26.

2-10-BUF 20 (:22) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right to 86-D.Nelson (78-T.McDaniel). Pass batted at line.

3-10-BUF 20 (:17) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short right (91-C.Wake). Thrown away under pressure.

4-10-BUF 20 (:17) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-5-T.Edwards, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 20 - No Play.

4-15-BUF 15 (:08) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 86-D.Nelson to BUF 24 for 9 yards (27-B.Sapp). Caught in flat at BUF 24.
WATCH HIGHLIGHT

Instead of throwing a hailmary the idiot dinks it. Yeah, thats the fault of the OL. wr. rb. tight end, ball boy ,janitor....NOT!


In typical fashion


Jacksonville Jaguars at 01:40
2-R.Bironas kicks 71 yards from TEN 30 to JAX -1. 35-D.Karim MUFFS catch, and recovers at JAX 4. 35-D.Karim to JAX 17 for 13 yards (52-J.Winborn).
1-10-JAC 17 (1:35) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 86-Z.Miller to JAX 25 for 8 yards (55-S.Tulloch).

2-2-JAC 25 (1:15) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 35-D.Karim to JAX 32 for 7 yards (22-V.Fuller) [98-D.Ball].

1-10-JAC 32 (:51) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards sacked at JAX 28 for -4 yards (sack split by 98-D.Ball and 93-J.Babin).

WATCH HIGHLIGHT
2-14-JAC 28 (:32) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass incomplete short middle to 35-D.Karim.

3-14-JAC 28 (:29) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 86-Z.Miller to JAX 38 for 10 yards (92-W.Witherspoon).

4-4-JAC 38 (:08) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards scrambles left end ran ob at JAX 41 for 3 yards.


:coocoo:

[mysticsoto]

I don't understand how Trent Edwards could have earned the nickname "Capt. Checkdown" and still FTY not realize that the stats of a speed burner like Evans, who typically goes long for the ball, are not going to suffer???

[justasportsfan]

I don't understand how Trent Edwards could have earned the nickname "Capt. Checkdown" and still FTY not realize that the stats of a speed burner like Evans, who typically goes long for the ball, are not going to suffer???

or that every WR that came in contact with him suffered and improved when someone else was the qb.

[trapezeus]

He's a Trent fan? Who in their right mind is a Trent fan? For what reason, Trap???


Justa is a sensationalist.

I liked losman...he failed after what looked like he was getting it. the team stuck with him too long. i bailed.

edwards came in and played better than losman. he actually had a winning record. he could lead drives instead of have one big throw. He reached a plateau and the concussion. he didn't get better. I bailed.

fitz is better than edwards. i like him. he needs to play better next year. he needs to cut back on INT's. if he regresses to the point where it looks like he can't get any better, i'll bail on him too.

evans is untouched fanwise because so much hsa been wrong with this team. but last year when other receiveres were getting it, he still was a peripheral player. he never had a game where he took over. he had maybe a couople long ball catches.

Evans is part of the puzzle. he should go long and we'll need a real possession receiver "the type that most people consider #1s" evans is only a number one here.

[better days]

Justa is a sensationalist.

I liked losman...he failed after what looked like he was getting it. the team stuck with him too long. i bailed.

edwards came in and played better than losman. he actually had a winning record. he could lead drives instead of have one big throw. He reached a plateau and the concussion. he didn't get better. I bailed.

fitz is better than edwards. i like him. he needs to play better next year. he needs to cut back on INT's. if he regresses to the point where it looks like he can't get any better, i'll bail on him too.

evans is untouched fanwise because so much hsa been wrong with this team. but last year when other receiveres were getting it, he still was a peripheral player. he never had a game where he took over. he had maybe a couople long ball catches.

Evans is part of the puzzle. he should go long and we'll need a real possession receiver "the type that most people consider #1s" evans is only a number one here.

I can think of a few teams that would be happy with Evans as the #1 off the top of my head. Seattle & Cleveland. I'm sure if I did a little research I could come up with 3 or 4 more but am too fatigued to do so.

[TigerJ]

It sounds like Evans is definitely in the Bills' plans for the coming season. If Gailey can accomplish what he intends with Evans, I would think the potency of this offense will increase. If Easely is as good as we hope, so much the better.

[trapezeus]

i'm not doubting that teams would want evans. i really don't think they'll pick evans at that contract and be able to live with lesser WR talent overall.

bottom line, the bills WR corp finally (on paper) looks like it can be very competitive. Fitz needs to find his groove and he needs a running game to be less pass happy in most games.

WR corp is NOT the biggest issue with the team. it still remains on the defensive side of the ball and the o-line as a whole needs to start getting it.

I fear that O-line will still not be a run oriented line