Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

[OpIv37]

I keep reading in other threads about how people want to re-sign Poz or Whitner for the "right price." Assuming either of them would be willing to sign for an amount that's commensurate with their performance (which is unlikely, especially in Whitner's case), there is still a huge problem with this:

Say we sign one or both two a two year deal for a reasonable amount, say $2 million a year for Poz and $3 million for Whitner. But then this year or next year, there is a better ILB and/or S available in FA. The FO will use the fact that we have Poz and/or Whitner as an excuse to not spend the money on them.

If the Bills re-sign either of these guys, they are basically saying "we are content to not upgrade this position until their contract runs out."

I realize that this team is not going to fill all their holes this off-season, but we didn't fill any holes last off-season and re-signing these two guys takes two more positions off the list for potential upgrades.

Re-signing Whitner and/or Poz is accepting the status quo, and accepting the status quo is accepting mediocrity.

[mysticsoto]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Whitner is going to want too much money. He's arrogant and actually thinks he's worth it. I haven't seen that from Poz, but admittedly, I don't know what numbers he will be asking for. At your $2 million example, I would jump at it in a heartbeat to keep Poz, a veteran presence. If he gets beat out by Sheppard, great - he can remain as backup. We've had many injuries at the LB position in the last few years and having a veteran back up would be great. If Sheppard, White, Batten or anyone else don't pan out, well, atleast we have an adequate player and an the search for a better replacement is continual - but that goes pretty much for every position also.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

the right price for Whitner would be vet minimum.

[OpIv37]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Whitner is going to want too much money. He's arrogant and actually thinks he's worth it. I haven't seen that from Poz, but admittedly, I don't know what numbers he will be asking for. At your $2 million example, I would jump at it in a heartbeat to keep Poz, a veteran presence. If he gets beat out by Sheppard, great - he can remain as backup. We've had many injuries at the LB position in the last few years and having a veteran back up would be great. If Sheppard, White, Batten or anyone else don't pan out, well, atleast we have an adequate player and an the search for a better replacement is continual - but that goes pretty much for every position also.

If that were the situation, the search for the better replacement would be limited to rookies because Ralph would never pay a FA if we already had Poz, even at only $2 million a year.

[Philagape]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Every championship team in the history of sports has had some mediocre players on the roster.
Downgrading is never the answer unless there is no choice financially, or unless the players at issue demand way more than they're worth.
Status quo at a particular position is better than getting worse. The object is for the team to get better, and making positions worse undermines that.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

I keep reading in other threads about how people want to re-sign Poz or Whitner for the "right price." Assuming either of them would be willing to sign for an amount that's commensurate with their performance (which is unlikely, especially in Whitner's case), there is still a huge problem with this:

Say we sign one or both two a two year deal for a reasonable amount, say $2 million a year for Poz and $3 million for Whitner. But then this year or next year, there is a better ILB and/or S available in FA. The FO will use the fact that we have Poz and/or Whitner as an excuse to not spend the money on them.

If the Bills re-sign either of these guys, they are basically saying "we are content to not upgrade this position until their contract runs out."

I realize that this team is not going to fill all their holes this off-season, but we didn't fill any holes last off-season and re-signing these two guys takes two more positions off the list for potential upgrades.

Re-signing Whitner and/or Poz is accepting the status quo, and accepting the status quo is accepting mediocrity.

After considerable thought, I think it would be in the best interest of the Bills to not bring either player back. It's time to shed the weight of the past and move in a new direction on defense. Because of the draft, and depending on what would be available via free agency, both are pretty much expendable, and I like both players. JMO

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Whitner has wore out his welcome here with his antics and on the field play. IMO he's not even worth keeping around for vet minimum.

I do not dislike the POS as much, even if he's not very good either, but at least he seems like a guy who's professional, comes to work, has a strong work ethic and desire and liked in the locker room. With the POS, as I said in the other thread, I don't care if he stays or goes. If he stays at least he's a guy who wants to be here and gives his all, if he goes well no big deal as replacing his production on the field shouldn't be too difficult to do.

[X-Era]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

I keep reading in other threads about how people want to re-sign Poz or Whitner for the "right price." Assuming either of them would be willing to sign for an amount that's commensurate with their performance (which is unlikely, especially in Whitner's case), there is still a huge problem with this:

Say we sign one or both two a two year deal for a reasonable amount, say $2 million a year for Poz and $3 million for Whitner. But then this year or next year, there is a better ILB and/or S available in FA. The FO will use the fact that we have Poz and/or Whitner as an excuse to not spend the money on them.

If the Bills re-sign either of these guys, they are basically saying "we are content to not upgrade this position until their contract runs out."

I realize that this team is not going to fill all their holes this off-season, but we didn't fill any holes last off-season and re-signing these two guys takes two more positions off the list for potential upgrades.

Re-signing Whitner and/or Poz is accepting the status quo, and accepting the status quo is accepting mediocrity.

Why does this post not allow for resigning Poz and/or Whitner AND upgrading the position? That could be done either from the draft or FA.

Example: Resign Poz and sign a significant ILB FA. The new player can start next year next to Poz as we develop Shepp and when or if Sheppard becomes good enough we can trade or let Poz go.

It's take what you have and build on it.

[OpIv37]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Why does this post not allow for resigning Poz and/or Whitner AND upgrading the position? That could be done either from the draft or FA.

Example: Resign Poz and sign a significant ILB FA. The new player can start next year next to Poz as we develop Shepp and when or if Sheppard becomes good enough we can trade or let Poz go.

It's take what you have and build on it.

Because the Bills won't pay for Poz and a significant ILB FA. They just won't. They'll use the fact that they signed Poz and drafted Sheppard as an excuse to not sign a FA ILB.

[Mike]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Every championship team in the history of sports has had some mediocre players on the roster.
Downgrading is never the answer unless there is no choice financially, or unless the players at issue demand way more than they're worth.
Status quo at a particular position is better than getting worse. The object is for the team to get better, and making positions worse undermines that.

Thats a great argument.

Except the Bills are not a championship team, keeping Poz will not make them better but might make them worst, and theres a huge opportunity cost of having such a policy.

You would rather have
1) Poz & Kelsy

or

2) Peppers & rookie

Note that both options will cost approximately the same $$$

[X-Era]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Because the Bills won't pay for Poz and a significant ILB FA. They just won't. They'll use the fact that they signed Poz and drafted Sheppard as an excuse to not sign a FA ILB.

1) Your probably right in what they may try to say.
2) I won't accept that.

At that point it's the dollar and a dream concept for building the team. The only significant upgrades will come through the draft keep your fingers crossed. We probably have 15 positions that could use a significant upgrade, 7 picks per draft, and of those at best a 50% bust rate. Oh, and the ones that are worth keeping are due for a new contract in 4 years... Translation: It will take a very long time and you may never get there.

That's not building a powerhouse, that's waiting to hit the lottery.

Keep Poz AND sign or draft a potential upgrade.

[X-Era]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Thats a great argument.

Except the Bills are not a championship team, keeping Poz will not make them better but might make them worst, and theres a huge opportunity cost of having such a policy.

You would rather have
1) Poz & Kelsy

or

2) Peppers & rookie

Note that both options will cost approximately the same $$$

If the money was the same (and I don't believe it is) It seems better to go with option 2.

Of course the problem is that if Peppers gets injured your stuck starting a rookie and potentially giving up a lot on the field. I feel guys like Ellison, Digi, Corto, and others don't belong starting unless they can beat someone out. None did. They went in because we had no one else. Depth is a significant concern on this team.

It's yet another reason to keep Poz. If you end up with a rookie who's better, fine Poz would be a very good backup. Let Poz go and you have no backup and an unproven starter... and that's getting worse, not better.

[X-Era]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Guys, Poz has over 100 total tackles the last 3 years in a row. Someone tell me why we should just let that go.

Upgrade clowns like Ellison and Maybin.

Or sign a proven significant upgrade to Poz which will of course cost more money.

Don't just let him leave without something as good or better.

[OpIv37]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

1) Your probably right in what they may try to say.
2) I won't accept that.

At that point it's the dollar and a dream concept for building the team. The only significant upgrades will come through the draft keep your fingers crossed. We probably have 15 positions that could use a significant upgrade, 7 picks per draft, and of those at best a 50% bust rate. Oh, and the ones that are worth keeping are due for a new contract in 4 years... Translation: It will take a very long time and you may never get there.

That's not building a powerhouse, that's waiting to hit the lottery.

Keep Poz AND sign or draft a potential upgrade.

Hey, I completely agree that it's the wrong way to build a team. It's this mentality and culture that has led to 10 years of losing. The good teams build through the draft and supplement with free agency. The Bills insist on building through the draft without using FA, or when they do, they sign busts like Dockery or role players like Dwan Edwards and Torbor. It's a revolving door policy that ensures new holes will open up before the old ones are closed.

In a perfect world, you are right- we should keep Poz AND keep looking for an upgrade. In the real world, I just don't trust the organization to do that. Maybe it's unfair because this organization has only had 1 1/2 off-seasons, and the lockout has made this off-season pretty much null and void. But until I see proof that something has changed in the FO, I can't trust them.

[OpIv37]

Re: Re-signing Poz or Whitner for the "right price"

Guys, Poz has over 100 total tackles the last 3 years in a row. Someone tell me why we should just let that go.

Upgrade clowns like Ellison and Maybin.

Or sign a proven significant upgrade to Poz which will of course cost more money.

Don't just let him leave without something as good or better.

Is Ellison even still on the roster? I honestly had no idea. The guy defines irrelevant.

As far as Maybin goes, unless someone comes out of nowhere and impresses the hell out of everyone in camp, he'll still be on the roster. I'd just as soon cut him, but his contract is incentive-laden, which means it's cheap unless he has a good season, and in the unlikely event that it happens, he'd be worth the incentive money. The org invested too much in him and will give him one last shot.