Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft can GO TO HELL

[YardRat]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article459671.ece

It's disconcerting to hear that there's growing sentiment for putting not just one team in LA, but two. Patriots owner Robert Kraft has said there should be two NFL teams in L.A., the nation's second-largest city. Kraft is on the league's broadcast committee. Surely, the league wouldn't mind having two teams in that large a market.

There are two competing proposals to bring the NFL back to Los Angeles, some 16 years after the Rams and Raiders fled town.

The leading contender is Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), which wants to build a 72,000-seat stadium on part of the city's convention center campus. AEG has asked the City Council to approve $350 million in municipal bonds to get the project moving by July 31. That would keep the project on schedule to open for the 2016 season.

Philip Anschutz, owner of AEG, is tight with Kraft and Jerry Jones.

[Novacane]

Greedy bastards.

[paranoid]

So, a city that has failed twice before to support one team should now have two?

[X-Era]

If that douchey hack Sullivan is going to write drivel like this at least he could present the data to support his claims:

"When Wilson is gone, all bets are off. If he dies, the Bills would be at or near the top of any list for possible relocation. Wilson has no known succession plan. He plans to have the team auctioned to the highest bidder. It's hard to imagine the top bid coming from someone who intends to keep the Bills in this market."

If true, the team is a real target for relocation. If not true, there is no story here. Rumors have flown for years that a new ownership group is already forming involving Jim Kelly and even that a succession plan is being worked out or already worked out. But see we have the balls to use the word "rumor". Jerry simply throws crap out like this as fact and as a basis for a whole argument with no data to support it. The onus is on you, Mr. doom and gloom, to provide data showing Ralph Wilson plans to have his team auctioned off to the highest bidder. Hell, I'd be good if he simply used the catch phrase "sources tell me". Instead he uses the anal extraction method for obtaining a key foundation for his entire article. You're the one being paid, it's your job as a responsible journalist. This is irresponsibility at it's finest.

[Mr. Pink]

If that douchey hack Sullivan is going to write drivel like this at least he could present the data to support his claims:

"When Wilson is gone, all bets are off. If he dies, the Bills would be at or near the top of any list for possible relocation. Wilson has no known succession plan. He plans to have the team auctioned to the highest bidder. It's hard to imagine the top bid coming from someone who intends to keep the Bills in this market."

If true, the team is a real target for relocation. If not true, there is no story here. Rumors have flown for years that a new ownership group is already forming involving Jim Kelly and even that a succession plan is being worked out or already worked out. But see we have the balls to use the word "rumor". Jerry simply throws crap out like this as fact and as a basis for a whole argument with no data to support it. The onus is on you, Mr. doom and gloom, to provide data showing Ralph Wilson plans to have his team auctioned off to the highest bidder. Hell, I'd be good if he simply used the catch phrase "sources tell me". Instead he uses the anal extraction method for obtaining a key foundation for his entire article. You're the one being paid, it's your job as a responsible journalist. This is irresponsibility at it's finest.


Ralph Wilsons' own mouth stated he has no succession plan and has no intent on selling the franchise while he is alive. Therefore what Sullivan wrote is not drivel and is based upon Ralph Wilsons' own statements.

[X-Era]

Ralph Wilsons' own mouth stated he has no succession plan and has no intent on selling the franchise while he is alive. Therefore what Sullivan wrote is not drivel and is based upon Ralph Wilsons' own statements.He has stated he does not plan to sell the team while he is alive... the rest is assumption. Do you have proof to say otherwise? Without it this is drivel.

[jcdavey]

i'm a chargers fan and i'm all for a move because san diego as a city, hasn't properly supported them, i'm not talking about the fans, they have great fans, but that city, it's gone through some real corruption and clearly the city government favors the padres

so anyway, i'm all for the chargers moving, but not to LA, LA loses teams

[Goobylal]

He has stated he does not plan to sell the team while he is alive... the rest is assumption. Do you have proof to say otherwise? Without it this is drivel.
Exactly. There is no quote from Wilson stating the team will be "auctioned off to the highest bidder."

[PromoTheRobot]

i'm a chargers fan and i'm all for a move because san diego as a city, hasn't properly supported them, i'm not talking about the fans, they have great fans, but that city, it's gone through some real corruption and clearly the city government favors the padres

so anyway, i'm all for the chargers moving, but not to LA, LA loses teams

If you are a huge Chargers fan you'll drive to L.A. to see them anyway.

PTR

[camelcowboy]

If you are a huge Chargers fan you'll drive to L.A. to see them anyway.

PTR 6 hour drive, from experience its not a commute id want to do 8 times a year.

[Novacane]

This article says Jones is in the same camp as Ralph.


Some in the ownership group saw that as a positive in the big picture because it meant that the hardliners – generally believed to include the likes of Jerry Richardson (Carolina Panthers), Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys), Mike Brown (Cincinnati Bengals), Dan Snyder (Washington Redskins) and Ralph Wilson (Buffalo Bills) – would have to back off because their power play failed.

Now, perceived moderates such as John Mara (New York Giants), Clark Hunt (Kansas City Chiefs), Bob Kraft (New England Patriots) and Dean Spanos (San Diego Chargers) have become the lead negotiators for the owners. Richardson has also been part of the process and some believe he has mellowed somewhat the past two months, particularly after his embarrassing treatment of players such as Peyton Manning(notes) became public. Likewise, Kraft was once seen as a hardliner early in the process, but has become much more of a peacemaker since late last season, repeatedly saying that a deal could be made, particularly if the lawyers were left out of the process.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AizdIkiGOCeuphv8FKTkJKpDubYF?slug=jc-cole_pivotal_meetings_for_Goodell_061811

[better days]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article459671.ece

It's disconcerting to hear that there's growing sentiment for putting not just one team in LA, but two. Patriots owner Robert Kraft has said there should be two NFL teams in L.A., the nation's second-largest city. Kraft is on the league's broadcast committee. Surely, the league wouldn't mind having two teams in that large a market.

There are two competing proposals to bring the NFL back to Los Angeles, some 16 years after the Rams and Raiders fled town.

The leading contender is Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), which wants to build a 72,000-seat stadium on part of the city's convention center campus. AEG has asked the City Council to approve $350 million in municipal bonds to get the project moving by July 31. That would keep the project on schedule to open for the 2016 season.

Philip Anschutz, owner of AEG, is tight with Kraft and Jerry Jones.

"There is no question in my mind that IF a Stadium gets built,....." That is the key sentence to that article. Sure the NFL would love to be in LA, but they do not have a Stadium & I doubt they will in my lifetime.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hour drive, from experience its not a commute id want to do 8 times a year.
Isn't there a train or something? Is it 6 hours to go 120 miles every day of the week 24/7?

PTR

[jcdavey]

If you are a huge Chargers fan you'll drive to L.A. to see them anyway.

PTR
not I, i live in quebec haha

if they wanna move to quebec i'm ALLLLLL for it

[jcdavey]

6 hour drive, from experience its not a commute id want to do 8 times a year.
from living in sd from 1970 - 2001 i can tell you, driving from sd to LA takes under 2 hours

[Johnny Bugmenot]

So, a city that has failed twice before to support one team should now have two?
They couldn't support two teams at once, that's the key difference. I absolutely do not want to see two NFL teams in the Los Angeles area. One team, however, would probably survive.

Even back in the 1930s and 40s they had the Bulldogs, which was basically a major league team without a league. They supported the Bulldogs extremely well, but when the Rams moved in, the Bulldogs were kicked to the curb. The same thing happened with the Raiders moving in in 1980, hence the Rams moving to Anaheim and pretty much floundering. L.A. can support one team, but not two. Had both teams not moved at the same time, I'd think it's be safe to say that at least one of them would still be in L.A. to this day.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

the bills will never leave buffalo, even if they did, there would be a new bills team soon enough. the demand and market is to high in the city(buffalo) and in toronto to not have a football team... didnt we sell out like 4 games last year?

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article459671.ece

It's disconcerting to hear that there's growing sentiment for putting not just one team in LA, but two. Patriots owner Robert Kraft has said there should be two NFL teams in L.A., the nation's second-largest city. Kraft is on the league's broadcast committee. Surely, the league wouldn't mind having two teams in that large a market.

There are two competing proposals to bring the NFL back to Los Angeles, some 16 years after the Rams and Raiders fled town.

The leading contender is Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), which wants to build a 72,000-seat stadium on part of the city's convention center campus. AEG has asked the City Council to approve $350 million in municipal bonds to get the project moving by July 31. That would keep the project on schedule to open for the 2016 season.

Philip Anschutz, owner of AEG, is tight with Kraft and Jerry Jones. Well if they love it so much, they can move the Patsies and Cowgirls to LA. lol I'd vouch for it.

[BillsFever21]

I don't know why the league is so hell bent on bringing another team back to LA. The Rams and the Raiders both failed there and moved away.

I can see why they would want to try again because of the market but no way could it support two teams. They couldn't support one team. Even when they had the Raiders who are a very popular team nationally they couldn't support it.

LA is huge but it's not a big fanatical sports town like NY which can support two teams. They are fairweather fans in that part of the country. They have many other things to do during the fall and winter like going to the beach or enjoying the outdoors. There are not enough fanatics to support two teams. They could MAYBE support one team under the right circumstances but even that is up in the air.

LA is a high profile celebrity type of place which makes the Lakers very attractive. Not the same with football though.

[YardRat]

TV revenue >>>>>>>>> fan support, that's why they want a team in LA. Mo' money.<tv revenue.="" that="" s="" why="" everybody="" wants="" a="" team="" in="" la.="" mo="" money.=""></tv>

[Mr. Pink]

He has stated he does not plan to sell the team while he is alive... the rest is assumption. Do you have proof to say otherwise? Without it this is drivel.

What do you think is gonna happen to the team when he dies? The estate is going to sell it. What is Ralph most concerned about the financial wellbeing of himself and family. Hell, what are most people most concerned about in their personal lives? Financial wellbeing.

Ralphs' not from here, Buffalo was not his first choice of a city to put a team, his family doesn't like the area and wants nothing to do with football.

So again, what do you think is going to happen when he dies and the team goes into his estate?

It's gonna be sold. And it's gonna be sold to the highest bidder.

[X-Era]

What do you think is gonna happen to the team when he dies? The estate is going to sell it. What is Ralph most concerned about the financial wellbeing of himself and family. Hell, what are most people most concerned about in their personal lives? Financial wellbeing.

Ralphs' not from here, Buffalo was not his first choice of a city to put a team, his family doesn't like the area and wants nothing to do with football.

So again, what do you think is going to happen when he dies and the team goes into his estate?

It's gonna be sold. And it's gonna be sold to the highest bidder.I'm fine with all of your assumptions. They are assumptions, not facts. That is my problem with Jerry's article. He threw crap at a fan and stated it as if he knows for a fact what will happen. He doesn't.

Besides, it's just as plausible that he has put in place a succession plan to a Buffalo group.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/10/12/1746725/wawrow-speculates-on-possible-bills-succession-plan

[DraftBoy]

Any sale of the Bills has to be approved by the NFL Commish and its owners. I have almost no fear of a Bills team leaving Buffalo in all honesty.

As for two teams in LA? Sure why not give it a shot, its not like Jacksonville is making anybody any money right now.

[justasportsfan]

I think they should move the browns to LA

[Mr. Pink]

I think they should move the browns to LA

If Randy Lerner wanted to, there's nothing stopping him from doing so.

The other owners in the league will never stop a franchise from moving into the second largest TV market in the country. Why? More TV money = more revenue for all the owners to split.

It baffles me how people think the league/owners would block any franchise from moving from their current city, especially if it's a small market team moving into a HUGE market.

[better days]

If Randy Lerner wanted to, there's nothing stopping him from doing so.

The other owners in the league will never stop a franchise from moving into the second largest TV market in the country. Why? More TV money = more revenue for all the owners to split.

It baffles me how people think the league/owners would block any franchise from moving from their current city, especially if it's a small market team moving into a HUGE market.

Well, the NFL should take a look at the NBA for an example of a league that is the blue print about how to ruin your league.

Allow teams to move at the drop of a hat, allow Star players to leave a team while in their prime with the team getting nothing in return, OVERPAY even average players.

Because of the way the NBA has been run, it is in trouble & probably has less fans now than in the 70's & 80's.

If the NFL is not careful, it could find itself in the same boat down the road.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, the NFL should take a look at the NBA for an example of a league that is the blue print about how to ruin your league.

Allow teams to move at the drop of a hat, allow Star players to leave a team while in their prime with the team getting nothing in return, OVERPAY even average players.

Because of the way the NBA has been run, it is in trouble & probably has less fans now than in the 70's & 80's.

If the NFL is not careful, it could find itself in the same boat down the road.


The NFL and other leagues, besides MLB, caused their own problems with player movement by instituting a salary cap.

Want to get rid of the ridiculous player movement? Get rid of the cap.

On team movement, the league tried to prevent Al Davis from moving the Raiders to LA. Al took them to court over it and won. Based on that ruling, there's no way to believe or even think the NFL will attempt to block another owner from trying to move their franchise.

[trapezeus]

how does LA generate more TV money?

as i understand it, the tv deals are based on the ads they can sell on a national level. as long as people are watching, it doesn't matter where its coming from.

LA as a whole hasn't turned off football without a team. and getting a team doesn't mean the ratings are going to go through the roof.

additionally the WNY region typically scores the highest on TV ratings for bills and non bills football games.

So the owners as a whole could lose a lot more by disenfranchising a large grouping of fans. which in turn would lower the ads watched, which would reduce the payments companies would willing to pay for ads for a smaller circulation of vieweres, which means the networks would pay less

[better days]

The NFL and other leagues, besides MLB, caused their own problems with player movement by instituting a salary cap.

Want to get rid of the ridiculous player movement? Get rid of the cap.

On team movement, the league tried to prevent Al Davis from moving the Raiders to LA. Al took them to court over it and won. Based on that ruling, there's no way to believe or even think the NFL will attempt to block another owner from trying to move their franchise.

The NFL thus far has no problem with player movement because STAR players can be retained by a team while they are in their prime or the team is compensated for their loss.

Players don't want to get rid of the cap because that would also mean teams could spend as little as they want as well. The cap benefits the average player, not the STAR.

Al Davis had been an owner in the NFL before he moved the Raiders. The NFL can refuse a potential owner from buying a team as they have done in the past. If they think a potential owner wants to move a team, they can stop him from buying the team.

[HAMMER]

Isn't there a train or something? Is it 6 hours to go 120 miles every day of the week 24/7?

PTR

Six hours would be round trip time with rush hour traffic. On a Sunday it would take 2 hours to get there and three to get back if traffic were really bad. Most likely 4.5 hours RT for Sunday football game. Too far for most SoCal fans IMO, too many other options for recreation out here.

[HAMMER]

Holy crap, I just realized how much I sounded like Op with my overly analytical post above.

[Mr. Pink]

Six hours would be round trip time with rush hour traffic. On a Sunday it would take 2 hours to get there and three to get back if traffic were really bad. Most likely 4.5 hours RT for Sunday football game. Too far for most SoCal fans IMO, too many other options for recreation out here.

I think you're shortchanging the driving time a bit.

LA traffic is ridiculous all hours of the day.

As an example, it took me and a buddy a little over an hour to drive from the Hollywood area to Anaheim to catch an Angels game. Hollywood to Anaheim is about 30 miles.

Los Angeles, downtown, is about 120 miles from San Diego.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Two teams would kill any chance for LA supporting a football team again. There going to have a hard enough time getting support for one team.

[OpIv37]

Slow down.

The NFL isn't dumb enough to give LA two teams until they prove they can support one.

If they put a team there, and it does really well, then they might get a second one in 5-10 years.

But Bob Kraft saying it would be nice to have 2 teams in the country's largest TV market doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen.

[HAMMER]

I think you're shortchanging the driving time a bit.

LA traffic is ridiculous all hours of the day.

As an example, it took me and a buddy a little over an hour to drive from the Hollywood area to Anaheim to catch an Angels game. Hollywood to Anaheim is about 30 miles.

Los Angeles, downtown, is about 120 miles from San Diego.

I drive it regularly, week days and weekends. It is not ridiculous all hours, Sunday is the lightest day. The toughest stretch is from Irvine to LA as you state.

[Mr. Pink]

I drive it regularly, week days and weekends. It is not ridiculous all hours, Sunday is the lightest day. The toughest stretch is from Irvine to LA as you state.

The parking lot otherwise known as Route 5. :rofl:

[Night Train]

I still remember the history of the Rams and the period the Raiders were there. It was a struggle.

LA has 2 major football teams already on Saturday. USC and UCLA. Come Sunday, the population isn't football crazy at all. Come late, leave early. Hardcore ? Hahahaha...

A new stadium may draw the curious for a short time but in todays economy, they'd have to win quickly to keep long term interest. I can't see it.

I read a column with LA resident broadcaster Al Michaels saying they could support 2 teams... but they need to check the pulse of a ticketbuyer, not a guy making millions a year with a free pass.

I understand the market size and the imagined advertising dollar but half of those residents struggle with the English language and could care less about tuning in.

Good luck.. but there's a reason teams fail there and the whole 2 team idea is a product of the NFL being shut down and having nothing to talk about but pie in the sky dreams.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

LA has 2 major football teams already on Saturday. USC and UCLA. Ha! USC got knocked down to size recently and UCLA hasn't been a contender since 2005. If they're major, I have some nice land to sell you...

[Mike13]

I think they should move the browns to LA

Because Cleveland isnt depressing enough?