WHOA lots of details on the new CBA and timeline

[Philagape]

Owners approve potential labor deal; await players vote

ATLANTA -- NFL owners voted Thursday to settle their labor dispute with players and end the lockout they began in March, but the deal is not done yet.

As of XXX, players still had not cast the votes needed to settle their lawsuits or approve a new collective bargaining agreement, two key steps to restoring NFL labor peace and bringing on practices, free agent signings and trades

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Owners-approve-potential-labor-deal-await-players-vote.html

[X-Era]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Owners-approve-potential-labor-deal-await-players-vote.htmlNot yet.

I'm watching NFL Network which is live and the owners are on a break and will go back in to vote on it soon. But live TV is showing them not meeting right now.

[FlyingDutchman]

Thought I heard there will be a vote at 8 tonight...

[Philagape]

Thought I heard there will be a vote at 8 tonight...

I think that's the players' conference call

[X-Era]

I think that's the players' conference callThat's what's reported.

[Mr. Pink]

Channel 4 News saying the owners have not voted yet and Arthur Blank is positive that something will get done tonight.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I think it is a safe bet Ralph will vote against it.

[Mr. Pink]

I think it is a safe bet Ralph will vote against it.


I don't think 2 hours is enough time for him to read it.

So you know Ralph and the dude from the Bengals are saying no to it.

[Philagape]

I'm not seeing this anywhere else, so looks like philly.com jumped the gun.

Update: They've removed it

[X-Era]

I think it is a safe bet Ralph will vote against it.It's actually a retraction of the cap figure from 128 mill or more to 120 but it's also a guaranteed floor of between 90 and 100%... I think it's 50/50.

If I had to guess, I'd say he will vote against it and you may hear him and the brass complain about having to spend to reach the new floor.

[Mr. Pink]

It's actually a retraction of the cap figure from 128 mill or more to 120 but it's also a guaranteed floor of between 90 and 100%... I think it's 50/50.

If I had to guess, I'd say he will vote against it and you may hear him and the brass complain about having to spend to reach the new floor.


Nah...it'll be "I didn't understand it. They didn't give me enough time."

We'll all blast him for this viewpoint and then in 2 years this deal with somehow be bad and we'll give him props for voting against it.

Oh wait, that did happen already. Deja Vu anyone?

[X-Era]

Nah...it'll be "I didn't understand it. They didn't give me enough time."

We'll all blast him for this viewpoint and then in 2 years this deal with somehow be bad and we'll give him props for voting against it.

Oh wait, that did happen already. Deja Vu anyone?I agree that that is likely what Ralph will say. But his brass will take it farther and whine about small market blah, blah, blah.

BTW, why is anyone listening to an organization who wants to operate differently and continue to not make the playoffs after over a decade? Build through the draft? What happened to the last decade worth of drafts? Personally I'm glad that the league will be forcing us to ante up and spend about what everyone else does. I'd rather spend and have the chance to succeed and fail then never to spend at all.

Quit trying to out smart yourselves, your record shows you haven't been smart since Polian left.

No, I see this as a new direction and a new day for the Bills... even if they whine and complain about it.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Not yet.

I'm watching NFL Network which is live and the owners are on a break and will go back in to vote on it soon. But live TV is showing them not meeting right now.Right, and I'm using a different method which is saying pretty much what you are. The Owners are on an extended break. I'm reading that they will vote once they go back in. They are waiting for something, but no one knows what yet I don't think. It may be possible that the vote may not even occur today, and may extend into tomorrow.

[X-Era]

Right, and I'm using a different method which is saying pretty much what you are. The Owners are on an extended break. I'm reading that they will vote once they go back in. They are waiting for something, but no one knows what yet I don't think. It may be possible that the vote may not even occur today, and may extend into tomorrow.The owners are leaving after they vote. I don't see them waiting till tomorrow. I think they will vote today.

[DraftBoy]

Per Sal, Ralph is not at the meetings. Russ Brandon is in his place.

[X-Era]

Per Sal, Ralph is not at the meetings. Russ Brandon is in his place.Good, someone coherent will be there. Like minded maybe, but still coherent.

[Extremebillsfan247]

The owners are leaving after they vote. I don't see them waiting till tomorrow. I think they will vote today.Your right. The new word is that Goodell and DeMaurice Smith were on the phone info swapping for about an hour. Voting to happen momentarily from what I've read.

[X-Era]

"CEC" a term you will not hear again for 10 years.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Resolution has passed

[NOT THE DUDE...]

waiting for players vote to recertify and agree to cba...

[X-Era]

Doors open sat.
Supplemental revenue sharing done- could be why the Bills voted yes... additional money coming in to cover the new cap floor.
HOF game canceled.
League year opens Wed- subject to recert of union
Players agreed to an new agreement.
Camps start at same date across league.
10 year agreement.
Calendar of events to come out.
Ratification completion- physicals, rosters in order
teams sign there own on 24th or 25th before new league year on Wed.
League year is also start of TC and free agency
Agreement means disputes and litigations will be resolved
Teams can resign there own before recertification
League year "unlikely" to begin before recertification
All labor disputes settled under arbitration, not by judicial oversight
franchise and transition tags still able to be used
no limits on franchise tag use
Drug policies not finalized yet
Pash- "salary cap as we know it"

[Bangarang]

Good stuff. It'll take a few days for my football mindset to kick in but I'm excited for this lockout non sense to finally be over.

[Night Train]

OMG ! Not the HOF game !

[Michael82]

LATimesfarmer (http://twitter.com/#!/LATimesfarmer) Sam Farmer LA Times by ByTimGraham



Not completely clear if CBA was approved, just a conditional lifting of the lockout. Explanation to come...

[Michael82]

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Training facilities to be open on Saturday. League year starts on Wednesday pending union certification.

[Michael82]

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



I can feel the media painting the players into a corner. ;)

19 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94181291032977408)

[WillsFromThaU21]

great news! what do u mean by the players agreed to new agreement?

[Michael82]

RealSkipBayless (http://twitter.com/#!/RealSkipBayless) Skip Bayless



Goodell says HallofFame game now lost. Applying pressure to players to now agree on what owners just agreed on & save 4 preseason games.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/RealSkipBayless/status/94185939680759808)

[X-Era]

great news! what do u mean by the players agreed to new agreement?
Goodell said that they have negotiated and agreement with the players.

The players will need to do their own work to approve it officially but it's done for all intents and purposes.

[Michael82]

It's getting more interesting as more pieces come out...I have a feeling that the owners did this vote today to force the players to get recertify as a union immediately or face tons of pressure from the fans and the media.

[Michael82]

AdamSchefter (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter) Adam Schefter



In email to player reps, NFL demanding that NFLPA re-form as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26.

3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/94186150457118721) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

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Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Waivers begin on Saturday. Starting at 2 p.m. clubs may negotiate but not sign undrafted rookies and all free agents.

3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94186382859304960) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

[Michael82]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1370365165/photo_normal.jpg
JasonLaCanfora (http://twitter.com/#!/JasonLaCanfora) Jason La Canfora



Following the reconstitution of the NFLPA and CBA approval by NFLPA, free agency signings start at 2ET on 7/27, per the NFL press release

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/JasonLaCanfora/status/94186735264731136)

[X-Era]

I'll add to the OP as I hear it

[Michael82]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



League year commences at 2 p.m. Wednesday provided the players ratify the deal. Clubs must also be under salary cap at that time.

3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94186896749625344)

[WillsFromThaU21]

sounds great!!....think theres a players vote tonight? jeff pash wasnt too clear on the whole signing your own players and drafted players...he talked about bringing players in for physicals and then being the process but he never said a date. i dont know if thats tomorrow if the players agree or when the calendar year starts next wedneday?

[Michael82]

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Training camp opens for all clubs on Wednesday for physicals. No pads on Day 2 or 3.

[X-Era]

LaCanfora: Undrafteds can start signing on 2pm Sunday

http://twitter.com/#!/JasonLaCanfora/status/94187384094203905

[Michael82]

WTF? Why would they open training camps on the same day as free agency beginning? That's insane!

[Michael82]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/986952292/Portland_II_6-28-08_normal.JPG
adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



2011 Salary Cap for team spending is $120.375 million.

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/94187929458573312) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Undo Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

[WillsFromThaU21]

ok, unrestricted FA on the team as well? or wed ?

[X-Era]

ok, unrestricted FA on the team as well? or wed ?I;m hearing free agency starts Wed. Teams can resign there own starting 24th or 25th

[Michael82]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/986952292/Portland_II_6-28-08_normal.JPG
adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



99% cash minimum spend requirement in 2011-2012; 95% for rest of deal. Big "get" for Players.

[Michael82]

This is a very good sign for the Bills...


http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1228509772/Breer5_normal.JPG
AlbertBreer (http://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer) Albert Breer



Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver told us much as he wasn't thrilled w/how revenue sharing went in '06, he's happy w/where it's going in new deal.

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/status/94188845070958594)

[WillsFromThaU21]

GREAT!!! HERE WE GO!!!!

[Michael82]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/986952292/Portland_II_6-28-08_normal.JPG
adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



Cap number of $120.375M would go into place Wednesday. Teams would have until then to release/restructure to get under the Cap.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/94189394856132608)

[Michael82]

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Special transition rules: All teams will have approximately $3.5 million available to fund veteran player salaries.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94189561873305600)


http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Each club may “borrow” up to $3 million in cap room from a future year, which may be used to support veteran player costs.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94189625496698880)

[X-Era]

Merged everything Mike.

I will try to add your details to the OP when we get a break... fast and furious.

Thanks for the details your grabbing.

[X-Era]

99 to 95% cap floor is big money to be spent for Bills.

[kingJofNYC]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/986952292/Portland_II_6-28-08_normal.JPG
adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#%21/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



99% cash minimum spend requirement in 2011-2012; 95% for rest of deal. Big "get" for Players.

Basically cash to the cap, just like the Bills have been operating.

[X-Era]

Basically cash to the cap, just like the Bills have been operating.No it isn't. Lets wait till the details come out and I think you will see it's an new and very different day.

Pro-rated SB's = non-cash to cap league.

Pash already said Salary cap as we know it which means SB's are amortized.

99% floor = 99% floor.

[kingJofNYC]

I don't think bonuses are amortized for floor purposes if he's using the word cash. They will be amortized for cap but not for floor is what I take from this.

All cash outlays go towards the floor, that's what it sounds like he saying. Why would he use the word cash if he didn't mean cash outlays in year X.

[Michael82]

Basically cash to the cap, just like the Bills have been operating.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Michael82]

adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



Drafted rookies will have 4-yr deals, with 5th yr option for 1st rounders. Undrafted rookies will have 3-yr deals. "Anti-holdout" rules.

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/94192547697655808)

[Michael82]

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realfreemancbs (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs) mike freeman



I continue to hear players aren't happy with this deal. But I may be wrong.

48 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs/status/94192937017151488) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)


»

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SI_JimTrotter (http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JimTrotter) Jim Trotter by SalSports



there were outstanding issues that had yet to be resolved, and the players are not going to ratify the proposal w/o those being addressed.

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JimTrotter/status/94192386191794176)

[X-Era]

I don't think bonuses are amortized for floor purposes if he's using the word cash. They will be amortized for cap but not for floor. All cash outlays go towards the floor, that's what it sounds like he saying. Why would he use the word cash if he didn't mean cash outlays in year X.Amortized bonus is amortized bonus guys. You can't amortize a bonus and then count it all this year.

The league is allowing amortized bonuses... that's not cash to cap... it's that simple.

[X-Era]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1089716968/DSC00265_normal.JPG
realfreemancbs (http://twitter.com/#%21/realfreemancbs) mike freeman



I continue to hear players aren't happy with this deal. But I may be wrong.

48 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/realfreemancbs/status/94192937017151488) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#)Retweet (http://twitter.com/#)Reply (http://twitter.com/#)


»

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1425121539/Trott_Head_Shot_Revised_normal.jpg
SI_JimTrotter (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JimTrotter) Jim Trotter by SalSports



there were outstanding issues that had yet to be resolved, and the players are not going to ratify the proposal w/o those being addressed.

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JimTrotter/status/94192386191794176)Yet Glazer says De will tell them it's a fair deal. Some players may not like it, but you only need 50% +1 to get it done.

Smith thinks he has that and has made the deal IMO.

[DraftBoy]

Jim Trotter of SI and Mike Freeman of CBS are all over the player reaction. Things are not as rosey as they may seem.

[kingJofNYC]

Amortized bonus is amortized bonus guys. You can't amortize a bonus and then count it all this year.

The league is allowing amortized bonuses... that's not cash to cap... it's that simple.

Details are sparse, but why would he use cash to describe the current floor setup if you're amortizing bonuses with regards to the floor.

From my reading, you parse out the bonus over the life of the contract for cap purposes. This way the Redskins can continue spending way above the cap, while actually staying beneath the slotted number.

Small market teams must outlay 99-95% of the cap in cash in given year, cash would include bonuses since the bonus is a cash outlay in year 1.

This is how I understand it, I'll withhold further comment until exact details, and not twitter blurbs, are available.

[Novacane]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1089716968/DSC00265_normal.JPG
realfreemancbs (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs) mike freeman



I continue to hear players aren't happy with this deal. But I may be wrong.




**** the few greedy bastard players that are going to ***** about this. Both sides have to give things in a fair deal. Smith must be confident this will pass or we would not be this far.

[X-Era]

Jim Trotter of SI and Mike Freeman of CBS are all over the player reaction. Things are not as rosey as they may seem.To those guys who are talking to those players.

IMO Smith made a deal with Goodell and believes he will get it passed. Recert and the timeline, if it changes, doesn't kill a deal.

[Novacane]

Jim Trotter of SI and Mike Freeman of CBS are all over the player reaction. Things are not as rosey as they may seem.



As long as it's less than 50% who gives a ****. They can ***** all they want.

[X-Era]

Details are sparse, but why would he use cash to describe the current floor setup if you're amortizing bonuses with regards to the floor.

From my reading, you parse out the bonus over the life of the contract for cap purposes. This way the Redskins can continue spending way above the cap, while actually staying beneath the slotted number.

Small market teams must outlay 99-95% of the cap in cash in given year, cash would include bonuses since the bonus is a cash outlay in year 1.

This is how I understand it, I'll withhold further comment until exact details, and not twitter blurbs, are available.It's all because 99% cap floor means everyone must account for the money the same way to the league.

You can pay a 20 mill SB to a player this year and spread the money over the life of the deal for cap purposes. You must meet 99% of the cap figure. If you amortize a deal and pay a protion each year, only that portion counts in year one, not the entire bonus.

The only way around it would be to pay salary this year to make up the 30+ mill gap. The Bills will never agree to pay anyone 20 mill this year. The bonus will be paid each year, and count to the cap as it's paid.

[Night Train]

The Bills will never agree to pay anyone 20 mill this year. The bonus will be paid each year, and count to the cap as it's paid.

So Dareus must continue to mow lawns on the side ?

[kingJofNYC]

Many bonuses are given up front, year 1. Depends on the structure, plenty of teams pony up the bonus up front, with escalator/achievement bonuses earned in subsequent years.

[X-Era]

So Dareus must continue to mow lawns on the side ?No. Dareus will get a 5 year 30 mill deal with say a 15 mill SB and will count 6 mill cap hit (or 6 mill toward the cap floor) as you choose to look at it. It won't be 18 mill toward the cap floor.

[DraftBoy]

To those guys who are talking to those players.

IMO Smith made a deal with Goodell and believes he will get it passed. Recert and the timeline, if it changes, doesn't kill a deal.

There is no deal, see Trotter's timeline for the email DeSmith sent to NLFPA.

[Michael82]

Anyone else think the NFL is giving the NFLPA a taste of their own medicine? They basically approved the CBA after spending all week working on it together and everyone seeing it. They then gave it to all the players at 3pm today and told them the ball is in their court. We've approved. Now you do it...or face the public backlash. The players are in the same spot that the NFL owners were in back in 2006.

[X-Era]

There is no deal, see Trotter's timeline for the email DeSmith sent to NLFPA.Until the players agree there is no deal I agree. Lets not parse here. De made an agreement with Goodell to make a deal IMO or we would not be at this point.

[kingJofNYC]

Anyone else think the NFL is giving the NFLPA a taste of their own medicine? They basically approved the CBA after spending all week working on it together and everyone seeing it. They then gave it to all the players at 3pm today and told them the ball is in their court. We've approved. Now you do it...or face the public backlash. The players are in the same spot that the NFL owners were in back in 2006.

Totally agree.

[DraftBoy]

People need to calm down, the owners voted for a proposal.

This does not mean Goodell and DeSmith have a deal, this does not mean the lawsuit settlement is final.

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/30776033?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001



"There is no agreement between the NFL and the Players at this time," Smith concludes. "I look forward to our call tonight."

[Michael82]

It's all because 99% cap floor means everyone must account for the money the same way to the league.

You can pay a 20 mill SB to a player this year and spread the money over the life of the deal for cap purposes. You must meet 99% of the cap figure. If you amortize a deal and pay a protion each year, only that portion counts in year one, not the entire bonus.

The only way around it would be to pay salary this year to make up the 30+ mill gap. The Bills will never agree to pay anyone 20 mill this year. The bonus will be paid each year, and count to the cap as it's paid.

umm, it's an 89% cap floor. The 99 is the cash cap floor. That means cash to the cap still exists!

[DraftBoy]

Until the players agree there is no deal I agree. Lets not parse here. De made an agreement with Goodell to make a deal IMO or we would not be at this point.

No he did not, again look at the link I just provided.

[X-Era]

Anyone else think the NFL is giving the NFLPA a taste of their own medicine? They basically approved the CBA after spending all week working on it together and everyone seeing it. They then gave it to all the players at 3pm today and told them the ball is in their court. We've approved. Now you do it...or face the public backlash. The players are in the same spot that the NFL owners were in back in 2006.No. I don;t think they did it blidnly. Goodell admitted that he spoke with De 20 minutes before he did his presser. He made a verbal agreement with Smith IMO. I think what your hearing is players who havent heard the final details saying it's not done. Smith in his own e-mail is simply letting the players know that he can't officially make a deal. He's showing respect and will let them vote to approve the deal.

[X-Era]

umm, it's an 89% cap floor. The 99 is the cash cap floor. That means cash to the cap still exists!99% is the cap floor man. Where do you get 89% from?

[X-Era]

No he did not, again look at the link I just provided."players" Read what I said again. I said Smith made the deal, he obviously still has to get 50% +1 to agree.

[Michael82]

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1441579241/Screen_shot_2011-07-13_at_11.40.08_PM_normal.png
darrenrovell (http://twitter.com/#!/darrenrovell) darren rovell by the506



NFL Players have about 10 days to play with if they want to try to get a better deal. After July 31, 1st preseason week is gone.

29 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/darrenrovell/status/94195430430220289)

[Michael82]

99% is the cap floor man. Where do you get 89% from?

ESPN.

The 99% cap floor said 99% cash cap floor.

[X-Era]

ESPN.

The 99% cap floor said 99% cash cap floor.Which means what to you? If a deal gets done with a amortized 20 mill SB amortized over 5 years, how much counts to this years cap?

Where did you get a 89% number?

[PromoTheRobot]

I think it is a safe bet Ralph will vote against it.

Hope you didn't bet money on that. 31-0 approved. Raiders abstained.

PTR

[Michael82]

DonBanks (http://twitter.com/#!/DonBanks) Don Banks



Not to judge the validity of those issues, but I think the NFL voted knowing it would put the pressure on the players. Plain and simple.

22 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/DonBanks/status/94199012487475201)

[Michael82]

Okay, just saw it again. The NFL salary floor is a team minimum of 89% ($106.8 million), as long as the NFL as a whole spends 99% ($3.8 BILLION).

[X-Era]

Okay, just saw it again. It's a team minimum of 89% ($106.8 million), as long as the NFL as a whole spends 99%.Give me a link man. If that's the case, it's 1% off 90% and still requires us to spend 24.3 if were at 82.5.

[Michael82]

Give me a link man.

ESPN.com

[Michael82]

Highlights Of Proposed CBA


Details of the proposed collective bargaining agreement that would need to be ratified by NFL players:
• Ten-year deal, through the 2020 season
• New league year would begin on Wednesday
• Players receive 48 percent of revenue in first portion of deal
• $120 million salary cap; team minimum 89 percent ($106.8M) as long as league spends 99 percent ($3.8B)
• Veterans earn free agency after fourth season
• Four-year rookie contracts, with team option for fifth year
• Lower rookie salaries, with cap on team spending for rookies
• Later training camps, no more full-contact, two-a-day practices • Offseason team activities (OTAs) reduced from 14 to nine



http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6791408/lockout-nfl-owners-approve-proposed-labor-agreement

[X-Era]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6791408/lockout-nfl-owners-approve-proposed-labor-agreementInteresting. I had heard of 90% to 99%... 89% still means 24+ of new money.

An 89% floor means the Bills have 11% to use as "cash to cap" if they choose. The league will think they meet 89% of the cap by accounting for amortized money but the Bills can account for it any way they choose. 106 in money spent is 106 in money spent.

[X-Era]

One thing that may be happening.

Mariucci just talked about it. Players who are responding to the owners agreeing may have not heard the latest details. Smith got off the phone with Goodell just a few hours ago. You may not be able to get all the details out that fast. It may take time for all these players, who aren't involved in the discussions, time to digest this.

[DraftBoy]

"players" Read what I said again. I said Smith made the deal, he obviously still has to get 50% +1 to agree.

And again Ill tell you, he says to the players he does not have a deal with the NFL. He says in the email that the revenue sharing system the NFL owners voted on today was something that the NFLPTA never saw or had any discussions on.

[Michael82]

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1300943889/Vonnie1-Twitter_normal.jpg
therealholliday (http://twitter.com/#!/therealholliday) Vonnie Holliday by KelvinSheppard



Please don't get excited about that press conference. The owners have agreed on a deal we the players have not seen! This is not consistent

29 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/therealholliday/status/94202389078351872) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

[X-Era]

And, as far as the cap goes, it may take time for al of us here to digest what the deal is and what it means.

An interesting note was that the Jags owner didn't like the 2006 revenue sharing plan but likes this one... and the Bills voted yes on it as part of this deal. Does that mean the league will give them more money to spend? What does it mean? It may take time to figure it all out.

[Michael82]

And again Ill tell you, he says to the players he does not have a deal with the NFL. He says in the email that the revenue sharing system the NFL owners voted on today was something that the NFLPTA never saw or had any discussions on.

Why do they need to care about the revenue sharing plan? They still get their 48%.

[DraftBoy]

Per Heath Evans, the owners have attempted to slip unagreed upon things into this CBA in an effort to force the players to accept.

[DraftBoy]

Why do they need to care about the revenue sharing plan? They still get their 47%.
Revenue sharing affects the way the money is spent by teams.

Plus they could argue that without knowing the plan they now was 48% to ensure the NFL won't hide money.

[X-Era]

And again Ill tell you, he says to the players he does not have a deal with the NFL. He says in the email that the revenue sharing system the NFL owners voted on today was something that the NFLPTA never saw or had any discussions on.Again, I said Smith made a deal with Goodell that he thought he could sell to the players. That's my opinion. I did not say the players agreed to a deal... they haven't. You can't even do it until you get 50% +1 to vote it in.

I think we are in the process of all the players getting informed on what the deal is and what it means.

But I think DeMaurice Smith believes he can sell this deal and that he told Goodell just that.

[X-Era]

Why do they need to care about the revenue sharing plan? They still get their 47%.No idea. It's internal owner to owner business.

[Michael82]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1089716968/DSC00265_normal.JPG
realfreemancbs (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs) mike freeman



Let's be honest...this was a bit of a dirty trick by the owners.

4 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs/status/94210417039114240)

[X-Era]

Per Heath Evans, the owners have attempted to slip unagreed upon things into this CBA in an effort to force the players to accept.Could It be one player who wasn't involved in the negotiations and is simply reacting uninformed? I think it could be that.

[X-Era]

I'd like to hear more from Smith at this point.

Let's hear what Smith says coming out of his conf.

Goodell said Smith needs to go do the business he needs to do... Maybe he's describing that Smith needs to sell the players and that it's complicated to do so.

Glazer said this:

"I'm hearing De Smith telling players he thinks the agreement is a good, fair deal. Still remains to be seen if the players vote it thru tho"

http://twitter.com/#!/Jay_Glazer/status/94190568736952320

[Michael82]

No idea. It's internal owner to owner business.

Exactly! That's what I was thinking.

[FlyingDutchman]

no more two adays? this league has turned into a bunch of money hungry pansy a$$es

[X-Era]

Breer on what he's hearing: "How do we vote on what we haven't seen yet"... could just be they need time to get the details and digest it.

[X-Era]

32 owners needed to hear the details... 1900 players also do.

it's a big difference.

[Michael82]

Breer on what he's hearing: "How do we vote on what we haven't seen yet"... could just be they need time to get the details and digest it.

I've been watching the ESPN special and they are saying that the NFL players are still waiting to receive the settlement that the NFL Owners agreed to today.

[X-Era]

http://twitter.com/#!/AlbertBreer/status/94214529550008320

The biggest single thing I'm getting from the players' side is ... "How do we vote on something we haven't seen?"

[Michael82]

Looks like PFT agrees with me about the Revenue sharing plan....



“As you may have heard,” Smith wrote, “they apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions.”

The NFLPA* hasn’t been part of those discussions regarding that issue because the NFLPA* showed no interest in that issue. All along, the elephant in the room was the league’s effort to fix revenue disparities by taking money back from the players. For reasons still unknown, the NFLPA* never pushed that issue.

So while there may be plenty of reasons to balk about the misguided power play that the owners have tried to pull, complaining about an issue about which the players previously didn’t care badly misses the mark.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/21/de-smith-shouldnt-be-surprised-about-new-revenue-sharing-arrangement/related/

[X-Era]

I've been watching the ESPN special and they are saying that the NFL players are still waiting to receive the settlement that the NFL Owners agreed to today.Exactly. The players committee that made the negotiation may have the details and the players... all the players, may not at this point.

I think you may have watched DeMaurice send an e-mail in courtesy acknowledging that the players must make a deal when he and his team had already conveyed to Goodell that they could sell the current deal that they negotiated.

The players simply reacted to seeing the owners popping the corks and read Smith's e-mail literally as if Smith had never bought off on a deal.

I think we may learn that it just was that the players didn't have all the details at that point.

[X-Era]

Looks like PFT agrees with me about the Revenue sharing plan....



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/21/de-smith-shouldnt-be-surprised-about-new-revenue-sharing-arrangement/related/Well, they may want to act like big boys at the table and act like they should be involved in those negotiations.

[Michael82]

mortreport (http://twitter.com/#!/mortreport) Chris Mortensen



League official claims De Smith and leaders have had the documents.... this is strongly refuted by NFLPA

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/mortreport/status/94216064858210304)

[Michael82]

"@THE_MAYNE_EVENT (http://twitter.com/THE_MAYNE_EVENT): @CJSPILLER (http://twitter.com/CJSPILLER) when do you plan on coming to buffalo?" Be there nxt wk bra




9 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/CJSPILLER/status/94214735041536002)

[X-Era]

mortreport (http://twitter.com/#%21/mortreport) Chris Mortensen



League official claims De Smith and leaders have had the documents.... this is strongly refuted by NFLPA

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/mortreport/status/94216064858210304)Aiello (NFL) is echoing my comments. Aiello is stating clearly that the players team bought off on the deal.

[X-Era]

Aiello said Goodell talked to him on the phone and told him what the deal was and "De Smith said OK I'll go take care of business".

[X-Era]

A newer angle is that some issues can't be resolved until the players are a union again.

[X-Era]

Great point.

NFLN guy says were hearing one side from owners, Goodell, and Aiello and the other side through Twitter.

[X-Era]

Josh Cribbs: "Were in the process of reviewing"

[Michael82]

A newer angle is that some issues can't be resolved until the players are a union again.

It's true. That's why the NFL wants them to recertify by Tuesday. They need to work on the other issues via a players vote. Not thru the courts.

[X-Era]

Players seem like babies right now. We need weeks to re-certify. Then also place a lockout on twitter crap from the players. If we can see players telling us what they think in seconds it shouldn't take weeks to become a union again.

[DraftBoy]

Players are babies and the owners are crooks...things are getting back to normal!

[X-Era]

Players are babies and the owners are crooks...things are getting back to normal!The more things change the more....

Unreal.

[Novacane]

Players seem like babies right now.


:bf1: In fairness to the majority of players there are 1900 of them. 10% could be acting like babies and it's still a big number. The vocal minority always gets the attention of the media.

[DraftBoy]

Looks like we are done for the night. Players have till Tuesday to react.

[X-Era]

Interesting note:

The second e-mail was sent by one of the NFLPA lawyers NOT DeMaurice Smith.

To me, it doesn't derail the thought that Smith told Goodell he could sell the current deal.

And it also seems to again show that the lawyers cause more problems than they are worth... Pash made stupid inflammatory comments today too.

[X-Era]

Eagles owner: Teams spend the same amount of money on players.

[Michael82]

What the ****! It sounds like the players just got the settlement tonight, immediately after their conference call ended. They are now going thru it and if they agree with everything they see, the players expect to vote tomorrow and Mort believes that they will now pass it tomorrow.

[Michael82]

However, the owners are still waiting to end the lockout officially and begin the league year once the players recertify.

[Michael82]

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/181406248/ross_tucker_normal.jpg
RossTuckerNFL (http://twitter.com/#!/RossTuckerNFL) Ross Tucker



Titans player rep Jake Scott, to me, via text: "As of 30 mins ago we haven't received the documents from the league. You can quote me."

7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/RossTuckerNFL/status/94230729487171584)

[Michael82]

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



What I'm getting is things aren't as bad as they seem. They could very well take a vote tomorrow

4 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94231760912654338) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#)Retweet (http://twitter.com/#)Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



They players just need time to digest what they've only just recently received.

3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94232085606309888)

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



The players do have the complete proposal now.

46 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94232849598775297) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#)Retweet (http://twitter.com/#)Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1427493444/gregbedard_normal.jpg
Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



Everybody just needs to take a breath. A day or two is not going to affect anything.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/94232788521332736)

[Michael82]

:rofl:


http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1089716968/DSC00265_normal.JPG
realfreemancbs (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs) mike freeman



Now I see Mort saying you guys might vote tomorrow. I'm not buying that either

46 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#!/realfreemancbs/status/94233420808458240)

[X-Era]

Kirk Morrison is saying they got the actual document 35 minutes ago.

[Michael82]

Kirk Morrison is saying they got the actual document 35 minutes ago.

That's the thing that boggles my mind. In an era of technology like what we have now...why does it take that long for the owners to send it to the players? Why does it take until next Wednesday for the players to recertify in person? why cant they do it electronically? This is all so confusing.

[X-Era]

That's the thing that boggles my mind. In an era of technology like what we have now...why does it take that long for the owners to send it to the players? Why does it take until next Wednesday for the players to recertify in person? why cant they do it electronically? This is all so confusing.I think they want to play the tough guy act and take their sweet time because they can.

It's a respect thing and the players don't feel respected right now.

Swallow your pride and play ball.

[Michael82]

The test is Saturday. If the players show up at the team facilities on Saturday, then it means they agree to a deal and will recertify next Tuesday or Wednesday.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Report: NFL players to vote Friday to end lockout




Andy Roth Reporting

aroth@entercom.com (aroth@entercom.com)


<!--- Box_110960062_ImageContainerDiv End --->

After the initial negative reaction from players around the NFL like the Buffalo Bills' George Wilson to a proposed solution to end the NFL lockout, ESPN's Chris Mortensen is reporting that the NFLPA will put the 10-year deal to a vote Friday, (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6791408/lockout-nfl-owners-approve-proposed-labor-agreement-players-expected-vote-friday)

http://wgr550.com/Report--NFL-players-to-vote-Friday-to-end-lockout/10422394

[malvado78]

That's the thing that boggles my mind. In an era of technology like what we have now...why does it take that long for the owners to send it to the players? Why does it take until next Wednesday for the players to recertify in person? why cant they do it electronically? This is all so confusing.

They gave it Ralph to send. He went out to send it via Pony Express...

[X-Era]

http://espn.go.com/photo/preview/!pdfs/espn_summary_nfldeal.pdf

Looks like it's ESPN's summary but it appears to have more details.

[BertSquirtgum]

you need to take a chill pill with all these useless threads man.

[SquishDaFish]

Ive seen alot worse threads from alot of people. Xs threads arent that bad. He adds substance to the board unlike some people

[X-Era]

Merged.

[X-Era]

Looks like minimum cash spend is 99% of the cap this year. It appears to change to 89% for the 2013 year and beyond.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/We-have-a-proposed-deal.html

[DraftBoy]

Looks like the time line is;
-NFLPA will vote to ratify tomorrow

-Team facilities will open on Wendesday

-Teams can negotiate with their own Draft Picks and Free Agents on Wednesday or Thursday*

-Friday the NFLPA officially recertifys

-Saturday Free Agency (Vets and UDFAs) begins along with training camps officially open (only physicals for 1st day, and walk through for Day 2 and 3)

*Im not clear on this one, there seems to be no definitive answer on this yet.

[Michael82]

Looks like minimum cash spend is 99% of the cap this year. It appears to change to 89% for the 2013 year and beyond.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/We-have-a-proposed-deal.html

This is still exactly what the Bills did when they had a cap. They spend up to the cap in cash. That's cash to the cap. I don't know how you don't see it. But it's what the Bills have been doing for a while. I still want to know where the 89% number came in. Why is it different in a couple years?

[X-Era]

This is still exactly what the Bills did when they had a cap. They spend up to the cap in cash. That's cash to the cap. I don't know how you don't see it. But it's what the Bills have been doing for a while. I still want to know where the 89% number came in. Why is it different in a couple years?Read this article.

http://throwback.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4621

Amortized bonuses are amortized for cap purposes by the leagues view. The Bills viewed it differently than the league. A 99% cash minimum means everyone will spend virtually the same by the leagues method for determining what "cash" means. If the league views amortized bonuses where only the amortized bonus counts to the cap, that's not cash to cap. It's not the same as the way the Bills viewed cash to cap.

Put it this way, how much do you think counts toward this years cap under this scenario:

5 year 30 mill contract, 15 mill SB

year 1) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 2) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 3) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 4) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 5) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB

How much of that contract counts toward the cap this year in your view of cash to cap?

I think the 89% in a few years thing means as the cap grows teams can again spend differently. I think it means that half could spend 89% and half could spend 100% which would give you around 95% overall.

[Turf]

That's the thing that boggles my mind. In an era of technology like what we have now...why does it take that long for the owners to send it to the players? Why does it take until next Wednesday for the players to recertify in person? why cant they do it electronically? This is all so confusing.

They probably don't want it out in electronic form becuase of the ease at whcih it would get distributed to everyone with just one keystroke. Its a proprietary legal document.

[Mike13]

Looks like the time line is;
-NFLPA will vote to ratify tomorrow

-Team facilities will open on Wendesday

-Teams can negotiate with their own Draft Picks and Free Agents on Wednesday or Thursday*

-Friday the NFLPA officially recertifys

-Saturday Free Agency (Vets and UDFAs) begins along with training camps officially open (only physicals for 1st day, and walk through for Day 2 and 3)

*Im not clear on this one, there seems to be no definitive answer on this yet.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2crrjis.gif

[YardRat]

Read this article.

http://throwback.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4621

Amortized bonuses are amortized for cap purposes by the leagues view. The Bills viewed it differently than the league. A 99% cash minimum means everyone will spend virtually the same by the leagues method for determining what "cash" means. If the league views amortized bonuses where only the amortized bonus counts to the cap, that's not cash to cap. It's not the same as the way the Bills viewed cash to cap.

Put it this way, how much do you think counts toward this years cap under this scenario:

5 year 30 mill contract, 15 mill SB

year 1) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 2) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 3) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 4) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB
year 5) 3 mill in salary, 3 mill in SB

How much of that contract counts toward the cap this year in your view of cash to cap?

I think the 89% in a few years thing means as the cap grows teams can again spend differently. I think it means that half could spend 89% and half could spend 100% which would give you around 95% overall.

It's simply different ways of accounting for the same numbers, but in the past the Bills still had to meet the same hard salary cap floor that every team in the league had to.

Regardless of whether the team/league will be acting under the old formula, the new formula, or both simultaneously depending on when/how the formula is being applied the Bills will continue to abide by the rules (as they always have) and not be forced to increase or adjust their spending habits any more or less than any other team in the league.

[X-Era]

It's simply different ways of accounting for the same numbers, but in the past the Bills still had to meet the same hard salary cap floor that every team in the league had to. Agreed... I've said that the way they did that was by meeting the 86% floor... it look like it's 99% this year.


Regardless of whether the team/league will be acting under the old formula, the new formula, or both simultaneously depending on when/how the formula is being applied the Bills will continue to abide by the rules (as they always have) and not be forced to increase or adjust their spending habits any more or less than any other team in the league. I'd be interested in hearing your view on how much counts to the cap this year in my example as well. For that contract, how much counts to this years cap?

And it looks like the Bills will need to spend over 30 million in new money this year.

[YardRat]

A 99% hard floor cap that includes non-amortized signing bonuses will equal, or possibly mean even less spending, than an 86% hard floor cap that accounts for amortization of the signing bonuses. That's the point.

In your scenario you've got one 15mil signing bonus, but then the contract details break down signing bonuses split evenly by year (which actually wouldn't be a signing bonus but would have to be classified as something else like a roster bonus). What scenario are you trying to lay out---a one time signing bonus of 15 mil, or five different annual bonuses for each year of the contract?

[X-Era]

A 99% hard floor cap that includes non-amortized signing bonuses will equal, or possibly mean even less spending, than an 86% hard floor cap that accounts for amortization of the signing bonuses. That's the point.

In your scenario you've got one 15mil signing bonus, but then the contract details break down signing bonuses split evenly by year (which actually wouldn't be a signing bonus but would have to be classified as something else like a roster bonus). What scenario are you trying to lay out---a one time signing bonus of 15 mil, or five different annual bonuses for each year of the contract?And that would be the point if it were true. Everything I see says it's not. You could be right, but it doesn't appear so.

A SB can be amortized over the length of the contract for cap purposes. Using my example, whats this years cap hit? 6 mill or 18 mill?

[YardRat]

And that would be the point if it were true. Everything I see says it's not. You could be right, but it doesn't appear so.

A SB can be amortized over the length of the contract for cap purposes. Using my example, whats this years cap hit? 6 mill or 18 mill?

Just so we're working on the same page, the contract you laid out would actually be represented as (in real dollars spent, not 'accounting' dollars for cap purposes)...

5 year 30 mill contract, 15 mill SB

year 1) 3 mill in salary, 15 mill in SB
year 2) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 3) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 4) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 5) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB

Is it safe to assume that the scenario you laid out already amortized the bonus over the five year deal?

[X-Era]

Just so we're working on the same page, the contract you laid out would actually be represented as (in real dollars spent, not 'accounting' dollars for cap purposes)...

5 year 30 mill contract, 15 mill SB

year 1) 3 mill in salary, 15 mill in SB
year 2) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 3) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 4) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB
year 5) 3 mill in salary, 0 mill in SB

Is it safe to assume that the scenario you laid out already amortized the bonus over the five year deal?Yes, it's amortized. Do you still think thats the way it counts toward this years cap?

[YardRat]

Yes, it's amortized. Do you still think thats the way it counts toward this years cap?

Depends on if they are using one formula, or both.

If...a) The league is going cash to cap, b) the signing bonus is paid out in one league year in real cash (and is obviously guaranteed), c) there are no qualifiers in the language of application that we are unaware of...then the cash to cap hit would be 18mil, not 6mil.

[X-Era]

Depends on if they are using one formula, or both.

If...a) The league is going cash to cap, b) the signing bonus is paid out in one league year in real cash (and is obviously guaranteed), c) there are no qualifiers in the language of application that we are unaware of...then the cash to cap hit would be 18mil, not 6mil.I don't think it would be 18 mill. This will not be a cash to cap league, the Bills will have to meet league rules for accounting, and that means spending 30+ mill in new money this year and not being able to eat it up with a cash to cap view of amortized SB's. That's what I think will happen based on everything I've read but we still don't have firm details so I could be wrong.

This part of the article I mentioned lays out the crux of this discussion:

"As an example, if a free agent player was signed to a five-year contract with a $5 million signing bonus, the guaranteed money would count only $1 million towards the salary cap because the signing bonus is amortized over the life of the deal. But the Bills view that as a $5 million dollar expenditure this year because they have chosen to deal in real cash dollars."

The only part left to answer is whether the league will allow amortized SB's or not. If that answer is yes, it's a non-cash to cap league and the Bills can't amortize a SB but count it all this year toward the cap.

[YardRat]

I don't think it would be 18 mill. This will not be a cash to cap league,

If it isn't 18mil and cash to cap, than they'll include amortization and the floor will be a lower percentage. The majority of the ownership would not strike a deal for a non-cash to cap hard floor of 99%.


the Bills will have to meet league rules for accounting,

Which they always have, and always will.


and that means spending 30+ mill in new money this year

Is your 'new money' actual dollars spent or accounting dollars for cap purposes?


and not being able to eat it up with a cash to cap view of amortized SB's. That's what I think will happen based on everything I've read but we still don't have firm details so I could be wrong.


As long as they meet the floor, they can do whatever they want with the remaining cap space. Same as every team in the league.



This part of the article I mentioned lays out the crux of this discussion:

"As an example, if a free agent player was signed to a five-year contract with a $5 million signing bonus, the guaranteed money would count only $1 million towards the salary cap because the signing bonus is amortized over the life of the deal. But the Bills view that as a $5 million dollar expenditure this year because they have chosen to deal in real cash dollars."

If the 4mil pushed them below the cap floor, they wouldn't be allowed to use that method of accounting. Cash to cap really only becomes applicable after the hard floor is met.


The only part left to answer is whether the league will allow amortized SB's or not. If that answer is yes, it's a non-cash to cap league and the Bills can't amortize a SB but count it all this year toward the cap.

It never has been, or will be, what the league will 'allow'. As all other previous CBA's, especially those involving the salary cap, there will be specific parameters that every team will be required to meet or face penalty.

[better days]

They probably don't want it out in electronic form becuase of the ease at whcih it would get distributed to everyone with just one keystroke. Its a proprietary legal document.

Well there is a thing called encryption to greatly reduce that.

[X-Era]

If it isn't 18mil and cash to cap, than they'll include amortization and the floor will be a lower percentage. The majority of the ownership would not strike a deal for a non-cash to cap hard floor of 99%. IMO it's no coincidence that Ralph pushed for new revenue sharing. I disgaree and think it will be a non-cash to cap league with a 99% floor.


Which they always have, and always will. Never said they didn't. 86% floor let them spend less than other teams and it appears you agree that the Bills will now be spending about the same, cash to cap or not.


Is your 'new money' actual dollars spent or accounting dollars for cap purposes? It's meeting a new cap floor of 99% and using your cash to do it. So both. I actually don't think they will do SB's much anymore, I think they will go to bigger guarantees and pay a higher salary. That would keep them from going way over their cash to cap accounting in a non-cash to cap league... Put it this way. Using my example, they couldn't use an amortized SB but use the 18 mill cap figure to reach the floor. Only 6 mill would go toward the floor.


As long as they meet the floor, they can do whatever they want with the remaining cap space. Same as every team in the league. I'd agree if there was any room between the floor and the cap.


If the 4mil pushed them below the cap floor, they wouldn't be allowed to use that method of accounting. Cash to cap really only becomes applicable after the hard floor is met. True. The floor will be at 99% which means they have to spend to get over it.


It never has been, or will be, what the league will 'allow'. As all other previous CBA's, especially those involving the salary cap, there will be specific parameters that every team will be required to meet or face penalty. Agree here too.

[YardRat]

IMO it's no coincidence that Ralph pushed for new revenue sharing. I disgaree and think it will be a non-cash to cap league with a 99% floor.

I would be very interested to see the numbers behind a non-cash to cap league with a 99% floor. IMO it's almost impossible.


Never said they didn't. 86% floor let them spend less than other teams and it appears you agree that the Bills will now be spending about the same, cash to cap or not.

Less than some, more than others...and I DON'T agree. You're still confusing real dollars and cap computations, IMO.


It's meeting a new cap floor of 99% and using your cash to do it. So both. I actually don't think they will do SB's much anymore, I think they will go to bigger guarantees and pay a higher salary. That would keep them from going way over their cash to cap accounting in a non-cash to cap league... Put it this way. Using my example, they couldn't use an amortized SB but use the 18 mill cap figure to reach the floor. Only 6 mill would go toward the floor.

Your 6mil figure is amortized. They NEVER COULD use the 18mil figure to hit the floor. The cap, regardless of how the team chose to figure it, was accounted for on equal terms for all teams by the league. For all intensive purposes, the 'official' cap figure for the Bills (using your example) was 6mil, and there was no way around it.

The only manner in which your example even comes close to relevance is after the floor has been hit, based on the league-wide accounting standards. Such as...

Assume 120mil cap/100mil floor for simplicity sake. Your contract gets signed at the 100mil floor. According to 'official' league cap computation, the team would still have 14mil cap space. Cash to cap, there would be 2mil left. I'm sorry, but 31 owners aren't going to agree on going with a 99% hard floor with forced amortization.

[X-Era]

I would be very interested to see the numbers behind a non-cash to cap league with a 99% floor. IMO it's almost impossible. I would be very interested to see why you say that. It simply is saying you must spend a certain amount of cash. What it doesn't say is that you must account for all the cash you spend in year one. If the Bills pay Dareus 3 mill in salary and 3 mill in SB for that year, they pay him 6 mill. If they pay him 18 mill because they pay all SB in year one, they still can amortize the SB over the length to reduce the cap hit. I don't think they can amortize the SB but count it all this year... that's where we differ.



Less than some, more than others...and I DON'T agree. You're still confusing real dollars and cap computations, IMO.No I'm not. You are trying to deny that the league allows amortization of SB money... they do and will again. And when they do, a team like the Bills can't amortize it but use the total to apply to this years cap. As far as cap goes, they will spend about what everyone else does. As far as cash goes, they may not go as far over as others will. But overall, they will have to spend much more than before and will need to bridge a 30+ mill gap.


Your 6mil figure is amortized. They NEVER COULD use the 18mil figure to hit the floor. The cap, regardless of how the team chose to figure it, was accounted for on equal terms for all teams by the league. For all intensive purposes, the 'official' cap figure for the Bills (using your example) was 6mil, and there was no way around it. Now we agree. That's my entire point. The cap figure for my example contract is 6 mill and that means they only are spending 6 mill toward the cap under that contract. That is NOT how the Bills operated before, they accounted for that example contract as 18 mill spent, which means they never got close to the actual cap but still met the cap floor because it was only 86%. This year they must spend up to 120mill and it looks like the floor will be 118.8. If they are at 82.5, were talking about 36.3 mill of new money. And you and I both know they won't be able to spend that on Poz, Florence, and their draft picks... that won't get them there. We know that because they won't pay Poz more than 7 mill, Florence more than 4 mill, and can't pay Dareus more than 6 mill. That's a total of 17 mill... not 36.3. And there is no way in hell the 2nd rounders and beyond will cost 19.3. The only way they won't have big money to spend would be if they structured Poz and Florence to pay them big salary (not amortized SB) in year 1.


The only manner in which your example even comes close to relevance is after the floor has been hit, based on the league-wide accounting standards. Such as...

Assume 120mil cap/100mil floor for simplicity sake. Your contract gets signed at the 100mil floor. According to 'official' league cap computation, the team would still have 14mil cap space. Cash to cap, there would be 2mil left. I'm sorry, but 31 owners aren't going to agree on going with a 99% hard floor with forced amortization. Yes they are. The reverse is what is true IMO. The players won't allow 4 or 5 teams to pay up to the cap and allow the bulk of the rest to pay way less because they don't want to meet a higher cap. 99% spent is 99% spent. This is why Ralph fought for the revenue sharing. It was to cover the cost of the new floor.

Let's assume your right and it's a cash to cap league where amortized bonuses can all count toward this years cap. I'm actually still fine with that. It isn't about what we spend to me, it's about us being competitive and spending about what everyone else does. And do you think for a second that the power teams like Dall and Pats who are at or near the cap will agree to account the way the Bills did? I don't see it likely at all. They want and need amortized SB's. They will be spending way over the cap if you look at it in cash to cap eyes. They can still mortage their future. But the part that counts against the cap will be about the same as the part that counts for the Bills. And what we both agree on is that the league won't allow teams to operate by two different accounting rules. Why would you think for a second the league would allow Dall to amortize a SB over the length with only that years portion to count to the cap but the Bills to amortize the SB but count it all?

What I want hasn't changed. It's a level playing field or as close to it as we can get. I always saw FA as another area of competition. It looks like we finally have a league mandate that makes everyone pay about the same. Whether it's by big spenders spending less or by smaller spenders spending more, I just wanted it to be much more even. The article I posted shows how the Bills operated differently and that difference is about to change one way or another.

Can they still waste the money? Sure. But at least they will spend the same cap money. It hasn't been that way and numerous articles out there have shown it.

[YardRat]

Why would you think for a second the league would allow Dall to amortize a SB over the length with only that years portion to count to the cap but the Bills to amortize the SB but count it all?

:rofl:

That's pretty much what you've been saying has been happening in the past, and the new rules are avoiding that and the Bills going to be 'forced' to spend more money.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

[X-Era]

:rofl:

That's pretty much what you've been saying has been happening in the past, and the new rules are avoiding that and the Bills going to be 'forced' to spend more money.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?The Bills will operate the same as everyone else. The 99% cap floor means that they will spend much more money than they did before which is what I've been saying all along.

Yes, going from a 86% floor or (no floor last year) to a 99% floor means being "forced" to spend more money. It's just that simple. And for a league that's trying to show the players more guaranteed money, it makes perfect sense.

What's funny is trying to figure out why fans of a 4 and 12 team wouldn't want to start spending money.

[Michael82]

I'm still waiting for more news to come out because I don't see anyway all 31 teams would have been okay with a 99% salary floor. I still think that the 89% number that was on ESPN and other sites is the correct one. The only thing I saw about 99% was that the league as a whole needs to spend 99% of their cash revenue.

[X-Era]

I'm still waiting for more news to come out because I don't see anyway all 31 teams would have been okay with a 99% salary floor. I still think that the 89% number that was on ESPN and other sites is the correct one. The only thing I saw about 99% was that the league as a whole needs to spend 99% of their cash revenue.I provided the links to the 89% number and the part that was missing was that it applies to the 2013 and beyond seasons.

Why wouldn't you believe that the league would want to convince the players they are spending more money?

If the cap is about parity why wouldn't the players want to ensure the teams were all spending up to the cap?

And the Bills would be OK with it if they got additional revenue from the others teams...

[YardRat]

The 99% cap floor means that they will spend much more money than they did before which is what I've been saying all along.

That's an assumption on your part, without any of us knowing the exact details.

[X-Era]

That's an assumption on your part, without any of us knowing the exact details.I agree on that. Until the final details come out none of us knows.

[YardRat]

I agree on that. Until the final details come out none of us knows.

Considering that, isn't it a little bit premature to be beating the 'Bills are going to be forced to spend more money' drum?

[X-Era]

Considering that, isn't it a little bit premature to be beating the 'Bills are going to be forced to spend more money' drum?Versus what, it's more of the same drum? It's discussion and it's a message board.

[X-Era]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/41848/panthers-bucs-may-front-load-contracts

This talks about teams way under front loading. It's one of the things we talked about here.

[Mr. Pink]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/41848/panthers-bucs-may-front-load-contracts

This talks about teams way under front loading. It's one of the things we talked about here.


That article speaks of something I suggested the Bills would likely do days ago, frontloading contracts and then restructuring/extending Stevie Johnson with big money in year 1.

[X-Era]

That article speaks of something I suggested the Bills would likely do days ago, frontloading contracts and then restructuring/extending Stevie Johnson with big money in year 1.It's possible but requires the Bills to pay big cash in year one to a player. I don't think they can amortize the bonus but count it this year. This seems to say they may be able to not amortize it and pay it all this year. Now that still wouldn't make sense to me because the Bills would be paying huge money this year to one or a few players. If you had to spend the money anyway, why would Gailey choose to spend it all on one player? He has a 4 and 12 team and knows he needs better talent.

Resigning Poz to a 5 year 35 mill contract with a 15 mill un-amortized SB would seem to pay Poz 19 mill this year with all of it counting toward the cap. Why in the hell would you ever pay Poz that much in any year? I gotta believe the Bills aren't going to make a contract like that.

Gaileys job is on the line. He has a 4 and 12 team. It just doesn't seem to make sense to put all your money in one or a few players from his perspective.

[X-Era]

Breer just said no opt-out... thank god.

[Barb]

there is a rumor out there, that there will be news coming up after the lockout that 3 teams are gonna be for sale

[X-Era]

there is a rumor out there, that there will be news coming up after the lockout that 3 teams are gonna be for saleSaw that. I will pretty much guarantee it won't be Buffalo.

Really I think it's a BS rumor.

[Barb]

Saw that. I will pretty much guarantee it won't be Buffalo.

Really I think it's a BS rumor.

well see executive editor for Forbes did tweet it

[Michael82]

adbrandt (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt) Andrew Brandt



For undrafted rookies: maximum of $25,000 bonus per player, $75,000 in bonuses per team. Will rise with the Cap.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/95545977448042497)

[Michael82]

Wow...this is very interesting....

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



"No payments of any kind may be made to any player signing a new contract until ratification of CBA."

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/Greg_A_Bedard/status/95548180074209280)

[X-Era]

Wow...this is very interesting....

Greg_A_Bedard (http://twitter.com/#%21/Greg_A_Bedard) Greg A. Bedard



"No payments of any kind may be made to any player signing a new contract until ratification of CBA."

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Greg_A_Bedard/status/95548180074209280)They covered that on NFLN. It just means they can't officially get there first check until the start of the new league year. They still can sign contracts before that.

[Michael82]

They covered that on NFLN. It just means they can't officially get there first check until the start of the new league year. They still can sign contracts before that.

Can they work out and do pad practices without getting paid?

[X-Era]

Can they work out and do pad practices without getting paid?I don't know. Can they be there and do non-filed work? I mean maybe they start taking physicals and get playbooks and get meetings in starting Friday

[YardRat]

Resigning Poz to a 5 year 35 mill contract with a 15 mill un-amortized SB would seem to pay Poz 19 mill this year with all of it counting toward the cap. Why in the hell would you ever pay Poz that much in any year? I gotta believe the Bills aren't going to make a contract like that.

If a team pays a player a signing bonus, they get that upfront (in the same year) regardless of whether the amount is amortized or not for salary cap purposes.

[X-Era]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/the-cba-in-a-nutshell/

CBA details... nothing really new.

[X-Era]

It's officially 99% cap floor for 2011 and 2012:

So the cap floor is 119.17 mill

http://nfllabor.com/2011/07/21/nfl-clubs-approve-comprehensive-agreement/
Salary cap plus benefits of $142.4 million per club in 2011 ($120.375 million for salary and bonus) and at least that amount in 2012 and 2013.
Beginning in 2012, salary cap to be set based on a combined share of “all revenue,” a new model differentiated by revenue source with no expense reductions. Players will receive 55 percent of national media revenue, 45 percent of NFL Ventures revenue, and 40 percent of local club revenue.
Beginning in 2012, annual “true up” to reflect revenue increases or decreases versus projections.
Clubs receive credit for actual stadium investment and up to 1.5 percent of revenue each year.
Player share must average at least 47 percent for the 10-year term of the agreement.
League-wide commitment to cash spending of 99 percent of the cap in 2011 and 2012.
For the 2013-2016 seasons, and again for the 2017-2020 seasons, the clubs collectively will commit to cash spending of at least 95 percent of the cap.
Each club committed to cash spending of 89 percent of the cap from 2013-2016 and 2017-2020.
Increases to minimum salaries of 10 percent in Year 1 with continuing increases each year of the agreement.

[X-Era]

WGR is arguing whether cash to cap is possible anymore for the Bills. Jerry Sullivan says he will get clarification. The WGR guy thinks they cant to do it anymore.

Sullivan did say this, the league considers the SB amortized.

[X-Era]

Apparently this was the .pdf presented the players:

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/images/2011/07/25/New_2011_Deal_Summary_7.pdf

[YardRat]

So they are going to add up all of the teams salaries and actual money paid out in bonuses to come up with the 99% figure for 2011 and 2012...that drops to 95% for '13 thru '20, but the individual team floor will be 89%.

That's a helluva deal for the owners.

So there are going to be two formula's in place...

1) Old-school salary cap, that will account for SB's on a pro-rated basis, for individual teams.
2) New school cash to cap, league wide, actual cash paid out for the entire league, with a team floor of 89%.

The way I read this, there really is no individual team floor for '11-'12. A team can go over the cash-to-cap figure to help bring the league spending to the 99% as long as their traditional accounting of bonuses doesn't put them over the traditional team cap.

[X-Era]

So they are going to add up all of the teams salaries and actual money paid out in bonuses to come up with the 99% figure for 2011 and 2012...that drops to 95% for '13 thru '20, but the individual team floor will be 89%.

That's a helluva deal for the owners.

So there are going to be two formula's in place...

1) Old-school salary cap, that will account for SB's on a pro-rated basis, for individual teams.
2) New school cash to cap, league wide, actual cash paid out for the entire league, with a team floor of 89%.

The way I read this, there really is no individual team floor for '11-'12. A team can go over the cash-to-cap figure to help bring the league spending to the 99% as long as their traditional accounting of bonuses doesn't put them over the traditional team cap.89% applies to 2013 and beyond and your speculating on the rest. Links man. So using your logic we get to the point where the league has to be at 99% and were at 90%... who do they go to to insist on additional spending? It's illogical. They have to have a floor to guarantee 99%... and that floor is 99%.

And my link substantiates that... it specifically calls out 119.2 mill guaranteed spend... that's per team. It's page 8 of the NFLPA's own summary of the deal.

[YardRat]

89% applies to 2013 and beyond and your speculating on the rest. Links man. So using your logic we get to the point where the league has to be at 99% and were at 90%... who do they go to to insist on additional spending? It's illogical. They have to have a floor to guarantee 99%... and that floor is 99%.

I'm using the links (and language) you provided. I don't see anything that refers to a team minimum for '11-'12, only a league-wide 'cash-spending' minimum.

[X-Era]

I'm using the links (and language) you provided. I don't see anything that refers to a team minimum for '11-'12, only a league-wide 'cash-spending' minimum.page 8... NFLPA's own summary... 119.2 mill

[YardRat]

And my link substantiates that... it specifically calls out 119.2 mill guaranteed spend... that's per team. It's page 8 of the NFLPA's own summary of the deal.

If either one of the links you provided specifically refer to the 119mil number, I missed it. I only see it in your post.

[X-Era]

If either one of the links you provided specifically refer to the 119mil number, I missed it. I only see it in your post.http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/images/2011/07/25/New_2011_Deal_Summary_7.pdf

[YardRat]

page 8... NFLPA's own summary... 119.2 mill

Got it. The text is incomplete...that # could simply represent the average per team necessary to hit the league-wide 99%.

[X-Era]

Got it. The text is incomplete...that # could simply represent the average per team necessary to hit the league-wide 99%.Come on man. I mean seriously. It's 119.2. That's 99% of the cap and it's illogical to think teams can just still spend whatever they want but that the league could still guarantee 99%.

[YardRat]

Come on man. I mean seriously. It's 119.2. That's 99% of the cap and it's illogical to think teams can just still spend whatever they want but that the league could still guarantee 99%.

They can't spend whatever they want because they still have to fit under the traditional cap.

We'll just have to wait and see as further details come out who is closer to the truth :D

If I were a betting man, a few seasons down the road it's going to be the player's turn to have the 'Whoa, we got hosed' epiphany.

[X-Era]

They can't spend whatever they want because they still have to fit under the traditional cap.

We'll just have to wait and see as further details come out who is closer to the truth :D

If I were a betting man, a few seasons down the road it's going to be the player's turn to have the 'Whoa, we got hosed' epiphany.:up:

The part I don't get is why you wouldn't want the Bills to spend 30+ mill on this team. Why do yo seem to be thinking this way are you worried about the long term viability of the team?

BTW, I smell a bet here.

[X-Era]

http://twitter.com/#!/JoeB_WGR/status/95618666065952768

Looks like we can get our answer tomorrow at the Bills Brass 9:15 conference tomorrow Yardie... :rolleyes:

I'll bet Nix will make it crystal clear.

[Michael82]

AdamSchefter (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter) Adam Schefter



One more CBA item: players wanted, and got, five consecutive days off during their bye week.

1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/95628673738223616)

Pussies!

[YardRat]

:up:

The part I don't get is why you wouldn't want the Bills to spend 30+ mill on this team. Why do yo seem to be thinking this way are you worried about the long term viability of the team?

BTW, I smell a bet here.

It's not that I don't want them to, it's more I don't think they will be forced to, nor will they have a ton of new revenue to.

It's the language that leads me to interpret in a certain manner.