Gleason: winner of lockout? Not fans

[Johnny Bugmenot]

by Bucky Gleason, The Buffalo News


An agreement likely will be ratified this week before free agency and training camps open, good news for all involved. Revenues could double in the next decade. Congratulations. I'm most happy for concession workers, parking lot attendants and security guards who need the NFL to help put food on the table.

Average Joes will foot the bill in one form or another, through television and tickets and merchandise and corporate money that generate more than $9 billion in revenue. People can spend their money however they choose, but it would be nice if certain owners made the same commitment to winning as their fans made to them.

Exhibit A: Ralph Wilson.

Read more... (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bucky-gleason/article499807.ece)

[X-Era]

by Bucky Gleason, The Buffalo News



Read more... (http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bucky-gleason/article499807.ece)It may be coming, we will just have to wait and see (Ralph).

[BLeonard]

To be fair, we've known since day one that, in the end, the fans would be the ultimate losers... But, the guy makes some valid points.

-Bill

[Mr. Pink]

How do the fans lose? As of right now only the HOF game is gone.

So what exactly have the fans lost?

[X-Era]

How do the fans lose? As of right now only the HOF game is gone.

So what exactly have the fans lost?I think fans will be paying more for tickets, etc... Maybe even at the Ralph.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How do the fans lose? As of right now only the HOF game is gone.

So what exactly have the fans lost?
Exactly. They didn't even miss one preseason game. We lost NOTHING!!!

[Bangarang]

In other breaking news, oceans contain water.

[BLeonard]

How do the fans lose? As of right now only the HOF game is gone.

So what exactly have the fans lost?

What have the fans lost immediately? Nothing...

Get back to me in a few years when prices for tickets, concessions and any type of NFL-Licensed memorabilia goes up in price.

That's where the fans will lose.

Also, try telling the people in Canton, Ohio that work that Hall Of Fame game every year that they haven't lost anything already, just by having that game cancelled.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

The average fan doesn't matter to the NFL, and hasn't for quite some time.

The NFL makes it's money from TV contracts, advertising contracts and luxury box suites (that owners like Kraft and Jones love because their revenue is exempt from revenue sharing, or at least it was under the old CBA). Merch, tickets and concessions are just a drop in the bucket for the NFL at this point.

And I wonder if Gleason reads this board, because he stole my line about how Bills fans accept mediocrity.

[X-Era]

Exactly. They didn't even miss one preseason game. We lost NOTHING!!!It could mean 10 bucks more per ticket Thurm. If the Bills turned around and spent big money on players and ended up a playoff team in the next 2 years would you happily pay it?

[OpIv37]

What have they lost immediately? Nothing...

Get back to me in a few years when prices for tickets, concessions and any type of NFL-Licensed memorabilia goes up in price.

That's where the fans will lose.

-Bill

exhibit A: REPLICA jerseys that cost $85. Expect that price to hit triple digits in the very near future.

Then the NFL wonders why fans buy unlicensed Chinese knockoffs...

[justasportsfan]

lol. MIke and Lecter are in the picture of that link again.

[X-Era]

exhibit A: REPLICA jerseys that cost $85. Expect that price to hit triple digits in the very near future.

Then the NFL wonders why fans buy unlicensed Chinese knockoffs...No one wants to spend any more than they have to so let's get that out right off the bat.

But, the Bills have some of the cheapest ticket prices in the league, the NFL has cheaper jerseys than NHL, and ticket prices overall are cheaper than NBA.

[BLeonard]

No one wants to spend any more than they have to so let's get that out right off the bat.

But, the Bills have some of the cheapest ticket prices in the league, the NFL has cheaper jerseys than NHL, and ticket prices overall are cheaper than NBA.

IMO, that's because currently, the stadium lease makes it adventageous to Ralph to have cheap prices... Now, that lease ends after next season, so the language of the next lease will be interesting, if there is a new lease.

But, when I get a letter in the mail from DirecTV, telling me that, even in the middle of a lockout, they are raising prices for the service yet again, that's pretty ballsy... To announce a price hike on a season that might not even happen? It tells me where the league's priorities are.

-Bill

[k-oneputt]

Bills are still alot cheaper then the Sabres.

[OpIv37]

Bills are still alot cheaper then the Sabres.

yeah, well, you get what you pay for.

At least the Sabres can make the playoffs.

[Mr. Pink]

What have the fans lost immediately? Nothing...

Get back to me in a few years when prices for tickets, concessions and any type of NFL-Licensed memorabilia goes up in price.

That's where the fans will lose.

Also, try telling the people in Canton, Ohio that work that Hall Of Fame game every year that they haven't lost anything already, just by having that game cancelled.

-Bill


They lost nothing too mostly. People will still flock there for the weekend and the induction ceremonies. They'll just lose whatever the gate concessions are, whatever amount that is that they collect.

However, that's still not the fans really missing out, preseason football is meaningless.

[Mr. Pink]

It could mean 10 bucks more per ticket Thurm. If the Bills turned around and spent big money on players and ended up a playoff team in the next 2 years would you happily pay it?


They should raise their prices regardless. It's the cheapest ticket in the NFL on the most diehard, allegedly, fan base in the NFL. People around here would likely gladly pay 10 more per ticket or 100 more per season.

I said in the past that this should have been done years ago and is still overdue.

[X-Era]

IMO, that's because currently, the stadium lease makes it adventageous to Ralph to have cheap prices... Now, that lease ends after next season, so the language of the next lease will be interesting, if there is a new lease.

But, when I get a letter in the mail from DirecTV, telling me that, even in the middle of a lockout, they are raising prices for the service yet again, that's pretty ballsy... To announce a price hike on a season that might not even happen? It tells me where the league's priorities are.

-BillEspecially when NFL Sunday ticket is no free to new subscribers.

[X-Era]

yeah, well, you get what you pay for.

At least the Sabres can make the playoffs.An argument for Ralph to spend more? I agree.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It could mean 10 bucks more per ticket Thurm. If the Bills turned around and spent big money on players and ended up a playoff team in the next 2 years would you happily pay it?
Of course. 80 more bucks. THAT IS NOTHING!!!!

[X-Era]

Of course. 80 more bucks. THAT IS NOTHING!!!!:clap:

As long as it comes with new and significant re-investing in the team.

[BLeonard]

They lost nothing too mostly. People will still flock there for the weekend and the induction ceremonies. They'll just lose whatever the gate concessions are, whatever amount that is that they collect.

However, that's still not the fans really missing out, preseason football is meaningless.

First, the bolded part... I refer you to here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/30/the-cost-of-a-preseason-game/



Jerry Roper, head of the Chicagoland Chamber of Commerce, tells the Chicago Sun-Times that a missed preseason game costs the city $3 million before concessions are taken into account. Add that, and the total is closer to $7-$8 million, which Roper calls conservative.

Doesn't sound "meaningless" in the cash department...

As for the Hall of Fame game, what about all the people that were scheduled to work in the stadium on the day of the game? Those people, along with the extra day of revenue for Canton, lost pretty significantly, IMO. Shortened hotel reservations, one less dinner in the city of Canton for people that would have stayed for the game, etc, etc... it adds up.

-Bill

[chernobylwraiths]

lol. MIke and Lecter are in the picture of that link again.

... and Lecter is checking out his manicure.

[better days]

The average fan doesn't matter to the NFL, and hasn't for quite some time.

The NFL makes it's money from TV contracts, advertising contracts and luxury box suites (that owners like Kraft and Jones love because their revenue is exempt from revenue sharing, or at least it was under the old CBA). Merch, tickets and concessions are just a drop in the bucket for the NFL at this point.

And I wonder if Gleason reads this board, because he stole my line about how Bills fans accept mediocrity.

Bucky must have been reading your posts.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

No one wants to spend any more than they have to so let's get that out right off the bat.

But, the Bills have some of the cheapest ticket prices in the league, the NFL has cheaper jerseys than NHL, and ticket prices overall are cheaper than NBA.
The only reason the Bills have the lowest average ticket prices, as I posted last year, is because their luxury box revenue is in the toilet. The Bills' low end ticket prices are right around the league average, which might partially explain why they've had so much trouble trying to sell them out in recent years.

[OpIv37]

The only reason the Bills have the lowest average ticket prices, as I posted last year, is because their luxury box revenue is in the toilet. The Bills' low end ticket prices are right around the league average, which might partially explain why they've had so much trouble trying to sell them out in recent years.

The reason they don't sell out the games in recent years is simple: we don't win.

No one is going to spend money to sit outside in December in Buffalo only to watch their favorite team get trounced by the Patriots yet again.

In the 90's, the stadium had a larger capacity, and even then it was rare that the stadium wouldn't sell out. People show up when the team wins and the games matter.

[trapezeus]

the NFL has cheaper jerseys than NHL, and ticket prices overall are cheaper than NBA.

The NFL jerseys cost more that an NHL Jersey when you buy an authentic, and they are made of mesh. MESH! $200 for a MESH jersey. Is this not insanity to you? You can buy an iphone for$200 and connect to the world, or you can get a mesh product with some other dude's name on your back.

An NHL Jersey is actually made without any holes in it (even the replicas) with the except of the 4 (head, bottom and two arms) you need to get into it.

The fans lose because the owners compromised. and the compromise isn't a selfless act. It's because they'll find money elsewhere. and that money is currently the very little you have in your pockets.

Please enjoy my monologue of the average NFL owner and their thought process (feel free to disagree):

"we signed this deal to get a better deal with the players. However, as a result of providing the football you fans so desperately want, we took on some large expenses via higher salaries and better benefits for current and retired players. Can you, the fans, help with a higher ticket price at the game? If you want a burger,fries and a coke for your kid, it's going to be about $20 and it's not even going to be very good.

Oh, since we are talking, i meant to bring up the issue that this stadium is terribly old. I know i just raised the ticket prices $10 per game on this old dingy stadium, but the thing is I'd really liked to life the price about $50-$75 a game on the cheap seats. I think the only way to do this is to get a new stadium. My owner's box is actually on the 45 yard line on the vistors side. I think i'd like to be on the 50 on the players side going forward. I probably need three times the space, but i'm rambling.

I understand i'm worth a cool $1bn, but i simply can't afford to put a single dollar down to build this stadium while I collect $130MM in revenues from TV contracts a year. Never mind i also run a very profitable business on the side, but i need you to pay for the bond issuance for a new stadium. I'm sure you are shaking your head and saying, "but i'm paying to build a stadium that will triple my season ticket costs and you could still run the team into the ground?" I hate to say trust me, but you should. I really have the team reversing course. You won't see it this year, but maybe in 2 or three years.

Here is the thing. The bonds that you need to approve may very well cost you more because of republican leadership, but that isn't my fault. The thing is time isn't on our side. the lease is running out, and all the other teams have nice toys and all i have is this stadium that totally works and which the fans like.

I don't vote for anyone that I haven't bought off already. And they are ready to sign on the dotted line for financing. They just need your vote. I'm not a mean guy, but if you don't vote my way I might have to move this team. And that's not me being a jerk. It's you making me do it. How can i trust this area of being serious about the team after 50 years of incredible loyalty?

I'm a good guy. There are other markets out there that would love to have te product that I've so selflessly kept here in this dying town. There is this up and coming town with new industries in China. The NFL is very interested in a global game, so Beijing Bills, here we come to our new home in the bird nest. Honestly, it isnt' as new as I'd like, but they said i might get a shorter lease.

Oh, so you are interested in keeping the team here and you'll come up with the cash for a new stadium? That's great. One thing though, because having this new stadium will help your community so greatly, i don't think it's too much to ask that you pay the expenses for the upkeep of the building. You know, when the turf goes, new jumbotron technology comes out, etc. You should pay for that. Because you'll be making all that tax money off the $30 restaurant bills that surround the stadium. And that stadium doubles for convention center space, so you'll have all these events where you're running the stadium into the ground. You are aware that Buffalo is a real up and coming convention center town right? You just need the stadium for it, and i came up with the idea. To make up for the fact you probably will use the stadium more than the 8 months a year I will use it, i should probably take all the parking revenue. I think that's fair.

I am a really good guy though. i know it seems I'm a little heavy handed. I'll tell you want, if you can bring some camera's to the local soup kitchen, i'll dole out soup for an hour and write a $100,000 check. I don't exactly need 2 ferrari's,now do i? People will know me as a good guy, 9 homeless people will eat well for a winter season, and you guys have football. This is what we call in business a win-win situation."

[Jan Reimers]

lol. MIke and Lecter are in the picture of that link again.
I just noticed that. They're everywhere, they're everywhere!

[YardRat]

:clap:

As long as it comes with new and significant re-investing in the team.

How much 'new' and 'significant' are you expecting for (optimistically) 2.5 million bucks?

[X-Era]

How much 'new' and 'significant' are you expecting for (optimistically) 2.5 million bucks?:lol:

No, something more than that.

[YardRat]

:lol:

No, something more than that.

That's about what you're going to accrue for a $10 increase per ticket.

[X-Era]

That's about what you're going to accrue for a $10 increase per ticket.Plus revenue sharing, plus additional increases in memorabilia cost, luxury suites, etc...

[YardRat]

Plus revenue sharing, plus additional increases in memorabilia cost, luxury suites, etc...

How much more would you expect to gain from those sources?

[X-Era]

How much more would you expect to gain from those sources?Who the hell knows. I could see 10 mill or more just from the revenue sharing changes. We will just have to wait and see.

[YardRat]

Who the hell knows. I could see 10 mill or more just from the revenue sharing changes. We will just have to wait and see.

How can you expect 'new' and 'significant' investment from revenues that you have no clue about regarding an actual dollar amount?

[X-Era]

How can you expect 'new' and 'significant' investment from revenues that you have no clue about regarding an actual dollar amount?Will you quit being such a neg nancy? I mean we got football back today.

Lets turn this around. How much do you think we will be spending in FA this year? How much do you think we will get from these sources?

[YardRat]

Will you quit being such a neg nancy? I mean we got football back today.

I'm not being a neg-nancy, but your consistent "we're going to have to change and be forced to spend big bucks and we're going to have all this new money floating around" is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking.


Lets turn this around. How much do you think we will be spending in FA this year? How much do you think we will get from these sources?

I would be stunned if we signed one player that I would consider significant.

They haven't even announced any further increases for tix (too late now, actually), hikes in concessions/memorabilia/parking etc and we haven't seen any figures regarding the new revenue sharing plan so I would say at this point the increase in revenue is going to be insignificant.

Face it. We're NOT going to have a ton of new money to blow on new players, and we're NOT going to be forced to pony up millions of more dollars for new players either.

[X-Era]

I'm not being a neg-nancy, but your consistent "we're going to have to change and be forced to spend big bucks and we're going to have all this new money floating around" is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking.



I would be stunned if we signed one player that I would consider significant.

They haven't even announced any further increases for tix (too late now, actually), hikes in concessions/memorabilia/parking etc and we haven't seen any figures regarding the new revenue sharing plan so I would say at this point the increase in revenue is going to be insignificant.

Face it. We're NOT going to have a ton of new money to blow on new players, and we're NOT going to be forced to pony up millions of more dollars for new players either.Good job providing dollar figures.

I disagree man, let's just wait and see rather than argue about it. If you find details post them and I will too. Let's let the details make the arguments for us shall we.

For one thing I see sites going back and forth on whether it's a 99% or 89% cap floor. It looks to me that 89% doesn't start until 2013. That's one thing that's up in the air.

Also the number of players under contract (I think I see 66), the amount of salary we have spent in 2011 at this point (I see 82.5 mill or so), and then how much we have to spend.

In the end the Bills moves will show us the final situation.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

The reason they don't sell out the games in recent years is simple: we don't win.

No one is going to spend money to sit outside in December in Buffalo only to watch their favorite team get trounced by the Patriots yet again.

In the 90's, the stadium had a larger capacity, and even then it was rare that the stadium wouldn't sell out. People show up when the team wins and the games matter.
(Well, I wanted to avoid stating the obvious...)

[better days]

Good job providing dollar figures.

I disagree man, let's just wait and see rather than argue about it. If you find details post them and I will too. Let's let the details make the arguments for us shall we.

For one thing I see sites going back and forth on whether it's a 99% or 89% cap floor. It looks to me that 89% doesn't start until 2013. That's one thing that's up in the air.

Also the number of players under contract (I think I see 66), the amount of salary we have spent in 2011 at this point (I see 82.5 mill or so), and then how much we have to spend.

In the end the Bills moves will show us the final situation.

I heard Clayton say on Saturday that the floor will be 10% higher than last year. Doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

[YardRat]

Good job providing dollar figures.

I disagree man, let's just wait and see rather than argue about it. If you find details post them and I will too. Let's let the details make the arguments for us shall we.

For one thing I see sites going back and forth on whether it's a 99% or 89% cap floor. It looks to me that 89% doesn't start until 2013. That's one thing that's up in the air.

Also the number of players under contract (I think I see 66), the amount of salary we have spent in 2011 at this point (I see 82.5 mill or so), and then how much we have to spend.

In the end the Bills moves will show us the final situation.

Neither one of us have the information to provide dollar figures. That's the point. There's no use making proclamations of 'fact' ("The Bills are going to be forced to spend more because of the new cap rules, and they'll have more to spend because of the revenue sharing, and we're going to really be able to go to town on new talent") when there aren't any viable numbers to base anything on.

[X-Era]

Neither one of us have the information to provide dollar figures. That's the point. There's no use making proclamations of 'fact' ("The Bills are going to be forced to spend more because of the new cap rules, and they'll have more to spend because of the revenue sharing, and we're going to really be able to go to town on new talent") when there aren't any viable numbers to base anything on.Can I make proclamations of links?

I agree. I'm hounding WGR, Breer, and others to get to the bottom of it.