Bills Waiting For Todays 4pm Waiver/Cut List ?

[Night Train]

The available talent list, already lengthy, will increase dramatically later today.

I would have to think the Bills will then sign some talent, maybe waiting for some specific players.

Either that or Ralph found a great short term rate on a jumbo cd. :monte:

[jamze132]

Bills will definitely be active this evening. Might even overpay a player or two so we can get to the salary floor.

[Mr. Miyagi]

God I hope so. Tyler Thigpen just isn't doing it for me when big big names are flying around the league.

[Jan Reimers]

I would like a quality ILB, OT, and TE. That, along with Thigpen, would represent a very successful FA class for me.

[Night Train]

Let's put this another way.

March Free Agency sees the silly $$ being spent the first couple of days, then everything calming down for a couple days after. The next week, signings start coming in at more realistic terms.

Poz supposedly got 45 Mil for 6 years. (insane) The Santonio Holmes contract and those Carolina signings were just nuts, in term of $ amounts.

Now a unique situation arises today where the market will be flooded with players needing to sign quickly. Yes, many bums but many others with talent who had high cap numbers and were victims of depth at their position with that given team.

The shelves were half empty 2 days ago. Now they will be crammed with talent, come 4 today and you won't be paying 45 Mil for average talent.

Let's see what the Bills do.

[Luisito23]

We're bottom feeders waiting for all the big names to be signed, so we can go ahead, and sign our usual WTF is that.

Get your Google ready cause it's gonna be real busy next week.

[tampabay25690]

The $$$ being spent is unreal....
Charles friggin Johnson was laughing on the radio yesterday with all the $$ Carolia gave him.....
POZ getting that $$$ for a soft LB that makes tackles 10 yards down field...
Weddle getting $8 mill per...
If we get Clabo it will prob be in the $7 mill per range.....

There will be a ton of cuts today.....
That will help level out the $$

[trapezeus]

The bills are doing what they do best. Crunching the season ticket numbers, and the parking revenues and then seeing if spending another couple million will generate buzz.

Don't forget, this team just issued new jerseys and has a highly touted #3 player on the team.

Factor that all in and they are hitting revenue budgets as expected. Why the hell try and win when losing is so profitable.

Again, i'm not angry that Poz is gone, but i am annoyed that they seemingly have no answers or plan

[Beebe's Kid]

The bills are doing what they do best. Crunching the season ticket numbers, and the parking revenues and then seeing if spending another couple million will generate buzz.

Don't forget, this team just issued new jerseys and has a highly touted #3 player on the team.

Factor that all in and they are hitting revenue budgets as expected. Why the hell try and win when losing is so profitable.

Again, i'm not angry that Poz is gone, but i am annoyed that they seemingly have no answers or plan

I think that you are wrong in assuming that there is no plan. I think the fact that the plan hasn't lived up to your expectations is the real problem, and your expectations may be unfair.

I am also waiting for the the big move, so I am with you in your anxiety. The names that are flying around right now are not necessarily players we were going to get, or wanted. They are all the players that are getting overpaid, and that is not what we are looking for.

At the end of the day, I feel that we will come out of this just fine

[Michael82]

Is today the day that Nick Barnett gets released? I'll gladly take him!

[Jan Reimers]

The bills are doing what they do best. Crunching the season ticket numbers, and the parking revenues and then seeing if spending another couple million will generate buzz.

Factor that all in and they are hitting revenue budgets as expected. Why the hell try and win when losing is so profitable.
Trap, the good news is, even if your premise is true - but I think it is not - teams have to spend at least 90% of the cap (and it may be more per some arcane formula). We may HAVE to spend another $15M or so to even get to that level, and another $10M or more to hit the cap.

So I'm looking for another 2 or 3 quality free agents.

[ddaryl]

it will be very interesting to see who hits the market....

but teams releasing players are also freeing up money to sign players.

However the over abundant negativity makes no sense... Nix said we would rebuild via the draft and signing our own.... the plan has not changed... Poz leaving for $7 million and a 4-3 was unavoidable, but the over all consensus was Poz was good but wasn't THAT good....

I expect some signings but until the Bills are a genuine playoff contender were not going to attract many if any top end FA's and the only way we will become contenders is to take the tortoise approach of slow and steady rebuilding.... Going for broke and over paying 2 or 3 highend FA's to appease the fans would probably set the team back in the long run at this point of the this rebuild project. Overpaying for 10 year veterans is also not a very good plan for this young team.

I expect the Bills to find OL and LB help and I'm hoping we're making a solid move for a TE as well. Then I hope we get proactive on some our 2012 FA's

[BillsWin]

Looking forward to tonight. I expect the Bills to make themselves better. Which isn't saying much.

[OpIv37]

I think that you are wrong in assuming that there is no plan. I think the fact that the plan hasn't lived up to your expectations is the real problem, and your expectations may be unfair.


This is the problem: Last year, at the end of FA, we added no one who made us significantly better. All we did was replace a couple of journeyman 4-3 guys with some journeyman 3-4 guys, and piss money away on Cornell Green.

So far, this year looks like the same thing. The Bills continuously neglect trades and FA as a method for improvement. Meanwhile, the Jets and Patriots, who are already much better than us, continue to add talent. Hell, even the Fish added Orton and Reggie Bush, and while they're still far from being contenders, they're better than they were 2 days ago.

This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. When it looks like they are falling back on old habits, you can't blame people for saying they don't have a plan. The onus is on the FO. Until they prove that they have a plan and take some action to improve via FA, then it is unreasonable for fans to assume there is a plan.

And before anyone uses the "you can't buy a championship- look at the Redskins" argument, I'm not talking about going out there and grabbing every FA on the market. I just want to see one or two positions improved via FA. That's it.

[DrGraves]

You can't build only through the draft in this day in age. Ralph and Buddy need to get with the times and sign some talent.

[OpIv37]

it will be very interesting to see who hits the market....

but teams releasing players are also freeing up money to sign players.

However the over abundant negativity makes no sense... Nix said we would rebuild via the draft and signing our own.... the plan has not changed... Poz leaving for $7 million and a 4-3 was unavoidable, but the over all consensus was Poz was good but wasn't THAT good....


First, we were 4-12 last year. How does signing our own rebuild anything?

Second, even if we were to rebuild by "signing our own" (which makes no sense), we didn't even do it because we let Poz walk. So, we're not signing our own and we're not signing FA's, so what exactly is the plan here? And don't misunderstand- I'm glad Poz is gone- I'm just pointing out that Buddy isn't even sticking to his own word.

Third, building through the draft takes YEARS. With the amount of holes on this team, it will take so long to fill them that new holes will open up. And we'll be constantly chasing our tails. It's impossible to build solely through the draft.

Fourth, the "over abundant negativity" is neither. In fact, it's completely justified realism. The Jets and Patriots are better than us, and still getting better. Meanwhile, we just use the same old "build through the draft" and "no one is available" bull**** excuses. Every year, it's the same thing- we spin our wheels while the rest of the division improves. And then somehow, people still defend the front office? And call out other posters for being "negative" when they acknowledge the reality of this situation? Please.

[better days]

This is the problem: Last year, at the end of FA, we added no one who made us significantly better. All we did was replace a couple of journeyman 4-3 guys with some journeyman 3-4 guys, and piss money away on Cornell Green.

So far, this year looks like the same thing. The Bills continuously neglect trades and FA as a method for improvement. Meanwhile, the Jets and Patriots, who are already much better than us, continue to add talent. Hell, even the Fish added Orton and Reggie Bush, and while they're still far from being contenders, they're better than they were 2 days ago.

This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. When it looks like they are falling back on old habits, you can't blame people for saying they don't have a plan. The onus is on the. Until they prove that they have a plan and take some action to improve via FA, then it is unreasonable for fans to assume there is a plan.

And before anyone uses the "you can't buy a championship- look at the Redskins" argument, I'm not talking about going out there and grabbing every FA on the market. I just want to see one or two positions improved via FA. That's it.

Well, back up QB is a position that was improved. One down one to go.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

can anyone show who is going to be released?

[psubills62]

This is the problem: Last year, at the end of FA, we added no one who made us significantly better. All we did was replace a couple of journeyman 4-3 guys with some journeyman 3-4 guys, and piss money away on Cornell Green.

So far, this year looks like the same thing. The Bills continuously neglect trades and FA as a method for improvement. Meanwhile, the Jets and Patriots, who are already much better than us, continue to add talent. Hell, even the Fish added Orton and Reggie Bush, and while they're still far from being contenders, they're better than they were 2 days ago.

This FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. When it looks like they are falling back on old habits, you can't blame people for saying they don't have a plan. The onus is on the. Until they prove that they have a plan and take some action to improve via FA, then it is unreasonable for fans to assume there is a plan.

And before anyone uses the "you can't buy a championship- look at the Redskins" argument, I'm not talking about going out there and grabbing every FA on the market. I just want to see one or two positions improved via FA. That's it.
Just FYI, the Fish haven't officially added Orton yet. They're just talking about it.

Free agency is hardly over. While I don't expect Buffalo to actually sign someone like Clabo, it's obvious they're interested in signing at least a couple guys in free agency. May not be the guys they're aiming for, but they'll almost certainly add a couple players.

And I will just say this - I hope you aren't planning on *****ing if we end up overpaying for players. Because if you want results through free agency, I guarantee we're going to overpay. If we get Clabo, we'll have overpaid. And I can easily see you turning right around and *****ing that we need to get results without having to overpay.


You can't build only through the draft in this day in age. Ralph and Buddy need to get with the times and sign some talent.
Really? You mean, like what the Packers have done?

[OpIv37]

And I will just say this - I hope you aren't planning on *****ing if we end up overpaying for players. Because if you want results through free agency, I guarantee we're going to overpay. If we get Clabo, we'll have overpaid. And I can easily see you turning right around and *****ing that we need to get results without having to overpay.




I don't accept that. It's the GM's job to create a situation where players want to play, and then attract players for market rates.

If you honestly accept that we can't attract FA's, and the only way we can is by overpaying, then you have accepted mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

And I can easily see you turning right around and *****ing that we need to get results without having to overpay.


I mean seriously... are you really calling me out for wanting results without overpaying for them? Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous that is.

[psubills62]

I don't accept that. It's the GM's job to create a situation where players want to play, and then attract players for market rates.

If you honestly accept that we can't attract FA's, and the only way we can is by overpaying, then you have accepted mediocrity.
It's amusing that a "realist" can't seem to accept reality.

So according to you, we can't improve without signing free agents. Then how can we improve to the point where we are a situation where players want to play and attract them at "market rates"?

Another point that I was trying to make that you seem to have missed is that players are consistently overpaid in free agency almost no matter what the team is. The market rate is...overpaying. There may be a few times where players accept a discount to play for a contender or whatever, but look around the league - players get overpaid in free agency, period. If we are going to be active in FA, then we are going to have to overpay, even if our team was located in the Bahamas and had Bill Belichick, Rex Ryan, Bill Parcells, etc. as our coaching staff.

Just because you don't accept something doesn't mean it's suddenly not true. Fact of the matter is that we're rarely going to get value when there's an open market.

[psubills62]

I mean seriously... are you really calling me out for wanting results without overpaying for them? Stop for a second and think about how ridiculous that is.
It's not ridiculous because that's the nature of free agency. That's one reason some teams prefer to build through the draft and sign their own talent.

I'm saying you're just going to find a way to ***** no matter what. You want us to be active in free agency, but not overpay. Well guess what, they're active but they aren't overpaying, which means they aren't getting the results you want. So as you can see from everything that is currently going on, overpaying is necessary. Just because you don't want to admit it doesn't mean it's not true.

[OpIv37]

It's amusing that a "realist" can't seem to accept reality.

So according to you, we can't improve without signing free agents. Then how can we improve to the point where we are a situation where players want to play and attract them at "market rates"?

Another point that I was trying to make that you seem to have missed is that players are consistently overpaid in free agency almost no matter what the team is. The market rate is...overpaying. There may be a few times where players accept a discount to play for a contender or whatever, but look around the league - players get overpaid in free agency, period. If we are going to be active in FA, then we are going to have to overpay, even if our team was located in the Bahamas and had Bill Belichick, Rex Ryan, Bill Parcells, etc. as our coaching staff.

Just because you don't accept something doesn't mean it's suddenly not true. Fact of the matter is that we're rarely going to get value when there's an open market.

If it's true, it's true because the FO has failed us, and they deserve criticism for said failure. And the onus is on them to make it right. That's the point I'm trying to make.

In the meantime, "FA's won't come here unless we overpay" is just another convenient excuse for the FO, along with "we're rebuilding through the draft," "no one is available," and "we are rebuilding so it will take 3-4 years to get results." Do you not see what is happening here? The Bills' PR machine gets people to buy into these excuses, then if anyone actually expects results, they get labeled as "negative" or "a pessimist." It's a total mind-**** and it's disturbing how many fans fall for it.

And if the market rate is overpaying, then it's not overpaying. It's the new market rate. That's how free markets work.

[psubills62]

If it's true, it's true because the FO has failed us, and they deserve criticism for said failure. And the onus is on them to make it right. That's the point I'm trying to make.

In the meantime, "FA's won't come here unless we overpay" is just another convenient excuse for the FO, along with "we're rebuilding through the draft," "no one is available," and "we are rebuilding so it will take 3-4 years to get results." Do you not see what is happening here? The Bills' PR machine gets people to buy into these excuses, then if anyone actually expects results, they get labeled as "negative" or "a pessimist." It's a total mind-**** and it's disturbing how many fans fall for it.

And if the market rate is overpaying, then it's not overpaying. It's the new market rate. That's how free markets work.
It's not this FO that has failed us. They're working on building a team. They've made a couple mistakes, more than I'd like, but in general I think they're doing it the right way. They're trying to build through the draft. If they do that successfully, then free agents will want to come here.

Rebuilding through the draft isn't an excuse. Despite all their comments, I've been expecting Nix and co. to go after a few free agents. So far they have and it's a little disappointing to see they haven't signed anyone worthwhile yet, but free agency is not over. You seem to have difficulty with blurring lines between "convenient excuses" and "reality." Reality is that in free agency, teams generally need to overpay, especially for better players and especially if you've been a bad team. I do expect to see results in the next couple years. This year I expect to see at least one or two wins that we wouldn't normally expect (sign of getting better, but still young team), and then the next year I expect to be contending for the playoffs. Doesn't change our situation NOW, however.

So Jacksonville didn't overpay for Poz because that was the market rate? Come on, whenever anyone (especially you) talks about overpaying, it's not based on "market rate." It's based on value and worth with reference to their play. This market rate stuff is irrelevant.

[trapezeus]

my lofty expectations of not wanting to go 4-12 again? And truthfully i'm ok with another bad season based on this "no free agency list". If there is any hope to get better quickly without any free agent help, it's going to be ebcause we are getting the first shot at top line players. I even think they did well in this draft.

But the problem is that there are holes that we know now (with a year of chan) as unresolved. We know that RT is terrible. WE know that Wood is best as Center. We know that the line needs more help. To not address it with more bodies and preferably a guy who is proven either means they are delusional about the talent currently on the roster or they simply don't care about the product. Even if Wang can play, they don't have any depth. for 5 years we've watched our guys go to IR. GET BODIES. And in some cases, get good ones.

10 years of this and being part of a 3rd rebuild when we didn't get anything out of the 1st 2 rebuilds is unbelievable. No other team just keeps rebuilding like this other than the lions. and sadly, it's starting to work for them to some degree.

it's not hard to think that a team that would give away 5 games to another city and charge the same ticket prices for 7 games might just indeed be in it for the money.

TO was brought in after sticking with jauron, a guy who went 2-8 on the easiest NFL schedule after starting 5-1. precisely because the fans were finally sick and tired of status quo, "i don't want to eat a contract even though i have a proven loser on my hands." He was a $6MM expense to sell some jerseys and get a shot of "wow, we've never done that before". And look at how that turned out? Not good for us, but great for a few additional sell outs.

These are the facts. It doesn't make me less of a fan. it's just that they keep selling us that time will fix everything. and i'll give them that. but they need to do stuff in the meantime. We had a 4-12 last year. WE've added a couple rookies who could be big time players. They have not had the luxury of OTA's and training camp.

in years past, good players with that, still needed 4-6 games to get to NFL level. WE are asking them to do it in less time.

We let an average LB go and currently are asking a rookie or lesser level veteran LB's to step in. How are we anywhere closer to being better in weeks 1-4 with this approach?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I don't accept that. It's the GM's job to create a situation where players want to play, and then attract players for market rates.

If you honestly accept that we can't attract FA's, and the only way we can is by overpaying, then you have accepted mediocrity.
The only way-- and I repeat, the ONLY way-- for the Bills GM to be able to do that is to move the team to Los Angeles. No NFL free agent in their right mind wants to live in Buffalo. Heck, even Buffalonians don't want to live in Buffalo-- ask the thousands of Buffalo expats living in North Carolina. It's a nice place to visit (for some), but you wouldn't want to live there. So, in that sense, if you think there's any possibility for the Buffalo Bills to be able to attract impact players at market rate, you are living in a pipe dream.

[OpIv37]

It's not this FO that has failed us. They're working on building a team. They've made a couple mistakes, more than I'd like, but in general I think they're doing it the right way. They're trying to build through the draft. If they do that successfully, then free agents will want to come here.

Rebuilding through the draft isn't an excuse. Despite all their comments, I've been expecting Nix and co. to go after a few free agents. So far they have and it's a little disappointing to see they haven't signed anyone worthwhile yet, but free agency is not over. You seem to have difficulty with blurring lines between "convenient excuses" and "reality." Reality is that in free agency, teams generally need to overpay, especially for better players and especially if you've been a bad team. I do expect to see results in the next couple years. This year I expect to see at least one or two wins that we wouldn't normally expect (sign of getting better, but still young team), and then the next year I expect to be contending for the playoffs. Doesn't change our situation NOW, however.

So Jacksonville didn't overpay for Poz because that was the market rate? Come on, whenever anyone (especially you) talks about overpaying, it's not based on "market rate." It's based on value and worth with reference to their play. This market rate stuff is irrelevant.

If this FO still has to overpay for FA's after being in place for a year, they have failed us. They have to create a situation where players want to come here, then get them here, period. If players are still only willing to come to Buffalo for extra cash, they are not doing their jobs. They need to convince people that even though we've been bad, we are headed in the right direction. So far, they seem very good of convincing fans of that, but not so good when it comes to, you know, actual NFL players who might help this team.

It doesn't change our situation NOW? Nothing ever changes our situation now. It's always about building for a future that never arrives. I see too many similarities between this FO and the past FO's that have failed. No one ever wants to sign any FA's, no one ever wants to take responsibility for what happens now- it's always about what's supposed to happen in a couple of years. The only thing we can do is hope this FO actually drafted better, so maybe we can get ahead a little bit.

If guys like Siler and Barnett get $7.5 mil a season, then Jacksonville didn't overpay, or maybe just slightly because Poz isn't as good as them. If those guys get, say, $5 million, then Jax overpaid. That's how it works.

[superbills]

The only way-- and I repeat, the ONLY way-- for the Bills GM to be able to do that is to move the team to Los Angeles. No NFL free agent in their right mind wants to live in Buffalo. Heck, even Buffalonians don't want to live in Buffalo-- ask the thousands of Buffalo expats living in North Carolina. It's a nice place to visit (for some), but you wouldn't want to live there. So, in that sense, if you think there's any possibility for the Buffalo Bills to be able to attract impact players at market rate, you are living in a pipe dream.

You, sir, are extremely mis-informed. :shakeno:

[OpIv37]

The only way-- and I repeat, the ONLY way-- for the Bills GM to be able to do that is to move the team to Los Angeles. No NFL free agent in their right mind wants to live in Buffalo. Heck, even Buffalonians don't want to live in Buffalo-- ask the thousands of Buffalo expats living in North Carolina. It's a nice place to visit (for some), but you wouldn't want to live there. So, in that sense, if you think there's any possibility for the Buffalo Bills to be able to attract impact players at market rate, you are living in a pipe dream.

Not buying it.

Most NFL players don't live in the city where they play. They have to be there for roughly half the year.

No doubt that the weather is a big-turn off, and the city isn't as appealing as, say, NYC, but no one with any bit of foresight whatsoever is going to turn down a multi-million dollar contact because they might have to spend 6 months a year in Buffalo for 4 or 5 years.

Also, I think many of the Buffalo ex-pats don't want to leave, but have to because the economy sucks and they can't find work. I'm a Rochester ex-pat living in the DC area, and while there are a lot of opportunities here that I wouldn't have in WNY, there are also a lot of things I miss about WNY.

[psubills62]

If this FO still has to overpay for FA's after being in place for a year, they have failed us. They have to create a situation where players want to come here, then get them here, period. If players are still only willing to come to Buffalo for extra cash, they are not doing their jobs. They need to convince people that even though we've been bad, we are headed in the right direction. So far, they seem very good of convincing fans of that, but not so good when it comes to, you know, actual NFL players who might help this team.

It doesn't change our situation NOW? Nothing ever changes our situation now. It's always about building for a future that never arrives. I see too many similarities between this FO and the past FO's that have failed. No one ever wants to sign any FA's, no one ever wants to take responsibility for what happens now- it's always about what's supposed to happen in a couple of years. The only thing we can do is hope this FO actually drafted better, so maybe we can get ahead a little bit.

If guys like Siler and Barnett get $7.5 mil a season, then Jacksonville didn't overpay, or maybe just slightly because Poz isn't as good as them. If those guys get, say, $5 million, then Jax overpaid. That's how it works.
You gave them one year to make Buffalo a great destination? You really think it's that easy to convince players that a 10-year losing team is on its way up? Are you convinced?

Of course we need to hope they're drafting better. What do you think is the core of ANY rebuilding process? The draft. Do you really think that this rebuilding takes no time at all? It takes time, but if we haven't become a contender after 3-4 years, IMO, that falls on the FO and they rightfully deserve blame for not developing this team. I certainly don't think you can blame them for not having results after one year of being left with practically nothing in the cupboards.

Oh right, so you weren't saying that Jax overpaid for Poz right when it happened? You dutifully waited for other LB's to sign and set the market rate before declaring that he was overpaid? We both know this whole "market rate" is crap. And btw, I'd take Poz over Siler and Barnett in a 4-3, but vice versa for a 3-4. So market changes because different teams look for different players.

[ChristopherWalken]

Its a FA free for all right now. Bills trying to retain a select few, pick up a player or two to fill gaps and then throw in the fact that they need to get all of the newbies contracted and on board in two weeks time and maybe a trade talk or two here and there....we are talking about a lot of late nights, early mornings and a phone on each ear.

I'm not making excuses for them but people need to understand that there is more to this than just faning offers to every top notch FA on the market.

[OpIv37]

Its a FA free for all right now. Bills trying to retain a select few, pick up a player or two to fill gaps and then throw in the fact that they need to get all of the newbies contracted and on board in two weeks time and maybe a trade talk or two here and there....we are talking about a lot of late nights, early mornings and a phone on each ear.

I'm not making excuses for them but people need to understand that there is more to this than just faning offers to every top notch FA on the market.

It's the exact same situation for the other 31 teams.

Bottom line: some teams have managed to improve, some haven't. Guess where the Bills fall on that spectrum?

[trapezeus]

the bills don't need a team of FA, but they do need 1 or 2 differencemakers. They don't even need to take the best names because those routinely don't work out.

but if we are targeting players, we have to know we are in a bidding war with other teams and unfortunately after 10+ years of being totally directionless, players aren't coming here when all other things are equal. and they will need to see that because they signed, they aren't losing out on someoneelse.

again, look at the sabres, this year, the sabres not only went out and got reigher, but they went out and got ehrhoff. Which sends the message, "we pay for talent. if you are considered, you're talented. we'll give you other people to help make you better. we won't just put you out on an island and run you down to never make another check again."

And i'm fine with how they kept fitz at qb, i'm fine they let poz go, etc. what i'm not cool with is watching numbers of people slide by when we are targeting them and then saying, "we got out bid." you want them, get them.