No salary cap floor until 2013???!!!

[Michael82]

ClaytonESPN (http://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN) John Clayton



reminding everyone that the minimum spend of 89 percent doesn't start until 2013.

29 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#!/ClaytonESPN/status/97018988852285441)

Wow! Looks like the Bills don't need to worry about signing anyone right to get to the floor. There is NO floor! I guess we know why Ralph and Mike Brown both voted yes on the new CBA. :ill:

[OpIv37]

are you ****ing kidding me?

This can't be right- there is no way the players would have agreed to that.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm sure I read that this year they have to spend 99% of the cap, and then it goes down to 89% in 2013.

[OpIv37]

And I realize this is borderline conspiracy theory and may open Pandora's box, but it's awfully convenient that the cap floor kicks in the season AFTER the stadium lease with the county ends....

[Jan Reimers]

S**t. I didn't realize that. I guess we're probably done with free agency.

[Slim]

The ****?

[Michael82]

Here's some replies to him....


http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1134847982/k_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#!/ComicKevinJones) @ComicKevinJones (http://twitter.com/#!/ComicKevinJones) Kevin Jones


@ClaytonESPN (http://twitter.com/ClaytonESPN) That explains why my Bengals are 50 million under the cap with no sign of spending a red cent of it.




5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/ComicKevinJones/status/97019884181004288) via web

@TheREALKParsons (http://twitter.com/#!/TheREALKParsons) Keith B Parsons @ClaytonESPN (http://twitter.com/ClaytonESPN) which explains the #Bengals (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Bengals) piss poor strategy right now.




5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/TheREALKParsons/status/97019961851121664) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

@BroncosDaily (http://twitter.com/#!/BroncosDaily) Christopher Dafoe @ClaytonESPN (http://twitter.com/ClaytonESPN) John isnt the minimum spending for this year 99%




7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/BroncosDaily/status/97019778631335937) via web

[T-Long]

it is 99% this year, 95% next, and then 89%. I think Clayton is confused.

[Dujek]

Clayton is always confused, he's a ****ing idiot.

[OpIv37]

does anyone have a link to back any of this up?

If Clayton is right, I'm going to be livid, but I will withhold my full-fledged rant until we get confirmation.

If he's wrong, it's yet another problem with Twitter: the guy makes one mistake and millions of people know within seconds.

[PromoTheRobot]

it is 99% this year, 95% next, and then 89%. I think Clayton is confused.

ESPN....accuracy optional.

PTR

[T-Long]

Don't have a link, but that's what they've been saying on Sirius for the past week

[OpIv37]

Don't have a link, but that's what they've been saying on Sirius for the past week

that's what I thought I heard on NFLN a few days ago as well. Clearly someone is wrong.

Either way, the Bills have a problem, though. If there is no floor, then you can all but guarantee we are done with FA and Ralph is just going to sit back and pocket the money.

If the floor is 99% of $120 million, then we're not even close, and all the guys worth spending big money on are gone.

[methos4ever]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/We-have-a-proposed-deal.html

Here ya go


Cash Minimum (Guaranteed Spend)

In 2011 and 2012, there is league-wide commitment to cash spending of 99% of the Cap.

In 2013-16 and 2017-20, this number drops to 95%. Also during these years, each team must commit to cash spending of 89% of the Salary Cap.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Not true. Buffalo could be under 89%

On a leaguewide basis cash salary must total 99% of the cap the next two years. That does not mean per team. In other words, if the Jets spend 140 million in cash and the Bills spend 100 million the league is in compliance. Starting in 2013, each team will have to spend 89% of the salary cap in cash, over a 4 year period. That means that if a team is filled with dead money they don’t have to overspend in cash that year to reach the minimum. They have 4 years to spend it, so if the salary cap was $120 million from 2013-2017 each team has to spend around $427 million to be in compliance with the CBA.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Not team by team requirement!

[OpIv37]

Not true. Buffalo could be under 89%

On a leaguewide basis cash salary must total 99% of the cap the next two years. That does not mean per team. In other words, if the Jets spend 140 million in cash and the Bills spend 100 million the league is in compliance. Starting in 2013, each team will have to spend 89% of the salary cap in cash, over a 4 year period. That means that if a team is filled with dead money they don’t have to overspend in cash that year to reach the minimum. They have 4 years to spend it, so if the salary cap was $120 million from 2013-2017 each team has to spend around $427 million to be in compliance with the CBA.

but in your hypothetical, how would the Jets spend $140 million if the cap is $120 million?

Is there some sort of "salary cap offsets" option?

[PromoTheRobot]

but in your hypothetical, how would the Jets spend $140 million if the cap is $120 million?

Is there some sort of "salary cap offsets" option?


This makes no sense because other teams can literally spend an opponent out of their own cap. Can't believe that was approved.

PTR

[BuffaloBlitz83]

but in your hypothetical, how would the Jets spend $140 million if the cap is $120 million?

Is there some sort of "salary cap offsets" option?

Teams can go over salary cap due to other teams not reaching it as long as total comes to 99% andthen 89% in 2013. This sucks for owners like Ralph. Great for the good owners with big wallets

[PromoTheRobot]

Teams can go over salary cap due to other teams not reaching it as long as total comes to 99% andthen 89% in 2013. This sucks for owners like Ralph. Great for the good owners with big wallets

But what happens if 5 teams go crazy and overspend the 99%? Who has to back off? Makes no sense.

PTR

[methos4ever]

Teams can go over salary cap due to other teams not reaching it as long as total comes to 99% andthen 89% in 2013. This sucks for owners like Ralph. Great for the good owners with big wallets


Two things:

The jets cannot have 140 in cap. They can spend up to 126 mil in cap, borrowing 3 mil from next year's cap and a one time 3 mil cushion which you can divide 1 mil each toward vets. If they go cash over cap (bonuses etc) they still have to stay in that range.

How do you think that happens?

Also, how is that last sentence at all appropriate on this board?

[BuffaloBlitz83]

But what happens if 5 teams go crazy and overspend the 99%? Who has to back off? Makes no sense.

PTR

I'm sure there are more rules to it but I'm not sure. Rest assure, Buffalo will not be at 89% lol

[BuffaloBlitz83]

**** Ralph. Die already you cheap bastard!

[Michael82]

Can someone please find out a definite answer? I tried tweeting John Clayton and Adam Schefter and they didn't reply. Someone else wanna try.....

[YardRat]

Ahem.

Hello? X-Era?

[Dr. Lecter]

http://nflfootballnow.com/2011/07/21/2011-nfl-salary-cap-and-floor-where-32-teams-stand/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap#Salary_cap_in_the_NFL

[Dr. Lecter]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/7/24/2291147/new-nfl-cba-revenue-sharing-salary-cap-floor

[mayotm]

Teams can go over salary cap due to other teams not reaching it as long as total comes to 99% andthen 89% in 2013. This sucks for owners like Ralph. Great for the good owners with big walletsWay to go Hitler.

[Jan Reimers]

I would guess with our recent signings, we are above the $108M floor.

[OpIv37]

Thanks Lecter, but none of that really answers the question.

The NFL Football Now article quotes John Clayton as the source but seems to contradict what he tweeted. We are trying to find someone other than Clayton to verify it.

The Buffalo Rumblings one likes to a proposed deal but doesn't say if it was the final deal or not.

And Wikipedia is... Wikipedia.

[Forward_Lateral]

Clayton is a tool box.

[kingJofNYC]

5 days since they signed the deal and we're still not sure how floor works.

[X-Era]

Wow! Looks like the Bills don't need to worry about signing anyone right to get to the floor. There is NO floor! I guess we know why Ralph and Mike Brown both voted yes on the new CBA. :ill:Michael. I have shown you multiple times that the salary floor for the next two years is 99% of the cap. The NFLPA document even names the figure... it's 119.2 mill. That is the cap floor.

[X-Era]

Ahem.

Hello? X-Era?Yes? I've shown all the links and data you all need.

Page 8:

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/images/2011/07/25/New_2011_Deal_Summary_7.pdf

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Judging by the PA's output, Clayton's technically right, by virtue of the fact that there's a difference between "cash spend" and "cap hit." That, and the PA's numbers are overall for the league, meaning teams like the Redskins and Cowboys can jerryrig their numbers to be way over the cap and shirkers like Buffalo can get away with cash-to-cap.

[X-Era]

Judging by the PA's output, Clayton's technically right, by virtue of the fact that there's a difference between "cash spend" and "cap hit." That, and the PA's numbers are overall for the league, meaning teams like the Redskins and Cowboys can jerryrig their numbers to be way over the cap and shirkers like Buffalo can get away with cash-to-cap.119.2 mill is 99% of the 120.375 mill cap. That is the per team cap floor.

Think about it this way. How could the NFL guarantee the NFLPA 99% of the league wide money is spent if they had no stipulation as to what each team spends? Makes no sense... that's why the 119.2 number is in there. So two teams spend 110%... but 30 other teams spend 70%... that doesn't equal a guaranteed spend of 99%. 119.2 man. It makes this all make sense and it's in the document for that very reason.

Can teams go over in the 1st two years? yes... by about 3 mill in year 1, 1.5 mill in year 2. Can teams continue to amortize bonuses? Yes. The only thing that isn't clear is whether the Bills can apply an amortized SB all to this years cap.

Cash spend vs. cap spend is another matter that has to do with how the league accounts for the contracts for cap purposes. I have asked everyone and their brother and can't get a straight answer. But it doesn't change the cap floor of 119.2.

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=3490620#post3490620


So they are going to add up all of the teams salaries and actual money paid out in bonuses to come up with the 99% figure for 2011 and 2012...that drops to 95% for '13 thru '20, but the individual team floor will be 89%.

That's a helluva deal for the owners.

So there are going to be two formula's in place...

1) Old-school salary cap, that will account for SB's on a pro-rated basis, for individual teams.
2) New school cash to cap, league wide, actual cash paid out for the entire league, with a team floor of 89%.

The way I read this, there really is no individual team floor for '11-'12. A team can go over the cash-to-cap figure to help bring the league spending to the 99% as long as their traditional accounting of bonuses doesn't put them over the traditional team cap.

[X-Era]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=3490620#post3490620I guess you choose to simply not read the NFLPA's document with the specific detail and choose instead to make up your own rules.

Fine. You guys can believe whatever you like (and I'm sure you will).

[YardRat]

I guess you choose to simply not read the NFLPA's document with the specific detail and choose instead to make up your own rules.

Fine. You guys can believe whatever you like (and I'm sure you will).

The NFLPA's 'document' is basically the executive committee's spin on the CBA to the membership in order to sell it.

Hopefully at some point we'll be able to see the actual language/agreement.

[X-Era]

The NFLPA's 'document' is basically the executive committee's spin on the CBA to the membership in order to sell it.

Hopefully at some point we'll be able to see the actual language/agreement.Done with this argument with you guys. The data is all out there.

[OpIv37]

Done with this argument with you guys. The data is all out there.

where?

No one provided it yet.

The link you provided is obviously a PPT presentation from the NFLPA, but whoever made it could have been mistaken. Or someone could have altered it before putting it out there.

And several teams, including the Bills are still WAY below that supposed floor, so teams aren't acting like they are bound by it.

[Michael82]

Don't forget, the Bengals are $50 million under the cap. If there was a floor, they would definitely start spending money soon. Just like the Bills.... :sigh:

[X-Era]

where?

No one provided it yet.

The link you provided is obviously a PPT presentation from the NFLPA, but whoever made it could have been mistaken. Or someone could have altered it before putting it out there.

And several teams, including the Bills are still WAY below that supposed floor, so teams aren't acting like they are bound by it.Your right, we should buy into the non-existant links provided and ignore the NFLPA's document which was provided to the players during the ratification. Remember, it appears that the league must guarantee this spending by the end of the year... not now.

I'd be willing to listen to this silliness if someone could make a logical argument as to how the league will ensure that they spend 99% of the league wide cap when they aren't ensuring that the individual teams spend a certain amount... End of the year, they are under that stipulated guarantee by 100 million, what happens then?

Please. I mean I can deal with the Bills being themselves but this? Guess I'm not in the mood right now based on our lack of action so far.

[Novacane]

Bills are probably waiting for everyone else to spend to the cap so they can spend a little as possible.

[Dr. Lecter]

where?

No one provided it yet.

The link you provided is obviously a PPT presentation from the NFLPA, but whoever made it could have been mistaken. Or someone could have altered it before putting it out there.

And several teams, including the Bills are still WAY below that supposed floor, so teams aren't acting like they are bound by it.
They do not need to be at the floor until the end of the year. So they can extend guys in December to hit it and be fine

[X-Era]

UN-****ing real.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/30/per-team-spending-minimum-doesnt-apply-until-2013/

The logic now fits... there is no floor this year or next folks. The league pays the difference if the league wide spend doesn't meet the guarantee. Aiello from the NFL confirmed.

The NFPLA sent a BS memo to it's players, the owners who claimed everyone will spend the same, all of it was BS. At least for the first two years. No idea why all the conflicting reports came out. No idea why the NFLPA sent a bogus document out. I can't make any sense of why everyone was on different pages.

Sorry, I wanted us to compete in this phase and now it's clear, we won't.

[YardRat]

UN-****ing real.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/30/per-team-spending-minimum-doesnt-apply-until-2013/

The logic now fits... there is no floor this year or next folks. The league pays the difference if the league wide spend doesn't meet the guarantee. Aiello from the NFL confirmed.

The NFPLA sent a BS memo to it's players, the owners who claimed everyone will spend the same, all of it was BS. At least for the first two years. No idea why all the conflicting reports came out. No idea why the NFLPA sent a bogus document out. I can't make any sense of why everyone was on different pages.

Sorry, I wanted us to compete in this phase and now it's clear, we won't.

You're welcome.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

The Buffalo Cheaps

[don137]

S**t. I didn't realize that. I guess we're probably done with free agency.
Did they even start?

[djjimkelly]

why is everyone trying to spend more then we have to

we still dont have enough guys on this roster that any of us want to lock up long term

forcing it will only make it worse.

most of you are acting like your on your first date and want to whip it out at dinner

[X-Era]

You're welcome.Your happy?

[X-Era]

why is everyone trying to spend more then we have to

we still dont have enough guys on this roster that any of us want to lock up long term

forcing it will only make it worse.

most of you are acting like your on your first date and want to whip it out at dinnerI'd whip it out if I was a total loser and my dinger was all I had.

[YardRat]

Your happy?

I'm always happy when I can help out a fellow zoner.

[X-Era]

I'm always happy when I can help out a fellow zoner.I'm glad your happy to "help".

BTW, the Bills still stink and will for a while it looks like.

[YardRat]

BTW, the Bills still stink and will for a while it looks like.

"When you least expect it, expect it."

[BLeonard]

UN-****ing real.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/30/per-team-spending-minimum-doesnt-apply-until-2013/

The logic now fits... there is no floor this year or next folks. The league pays the difference if the league wide spend doesn't meet the guarantee. Aiello from the NFL confirmed.

The NFPLA sent a BS memo to it's players, the owners who claimed everyone will spend the same, all of it was BS. At least for the first two years. No idea why all the conflicting reports came out. No idea why the NFLPA sent a bogus document out. I can't make any sense of why everyone was on different pages.

Sorry, I wanted us to compete in this phase and now it's clear, we won't.


Couple of interesting notes on this:



Still, on a league-wide basis, the labor deal requires the NFL to spend 99 percent of the salary cap in cash in 2011 and 2012.


BUT, this is where it falls apart...


Remember, it’s not cap space but cash spent. So when a team like the Panthers gives defensive end Charles Johnson a $30 million signing bonus on a six-year deal, only $5 million counts against the cap — but $30 million counts against the league’s total spending requirement of $3.8 billion.


I'm thinking that's why all the rookies are getting fully guaranteed contracts... all that would also go towards the $3.8 billion that the league has to spend on salary.

In short, I'm thinking the Bills won't be anywhere near the cap and now, we know that they don't need to be, in order to keep in compliance with NFL rules.

Also odd that the minimum floor starts in 2013, when the Bills Toronto deal and stadium lease is up following the 2012 season...

-Bill

[Michael82]

UN-****ing real.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/30/per-team-spending-minimum-doesnt-apply-until-2013/

The logic now fits... there is no floor this year or next folks. The league pays the difference if the league wide spend doesn't meet the guarantee. Aiello from the NFL confirmed.

The NFPLA sent a BS memo to it's players, the owners who claimed everyone will spend the same, all of it was BS. At least for the first two years. No idea why all the conflicting reports came out. No idea why the NFLPA sent a bogus document out. I can't make any sense of why everyone was on different pages.

Sorry, I wanted us to compete in this phase and now it's clear, we won't.

Told ya! :ill:

[X-Era]

Told ya! :ill:You were right unfortunately.

[Mr. Pink]

So how much under the cap are we anyways? I'm just curious.

[X-Era]

So how much under the cap are we anyways? I'm just curious.It was like 38 mill. 5 for florence, probably 2 for thigpen, and 4 for smith put us at 27 mill under or so.

Then we had the draft pick signings Dareus is 5 mill, and a few more mill probably. I think were around 20 mill under... right in there.

[Mr. Pink]

It was like 38 mill. 5 for florence, probably 2 for thigpen, and 4 for smith puts us at 27 mill under or so.

Are we at 27 or so with Dareus accounted for?

I'd expect us to maybe spend to 20 million under.

[X-Era]

Are we at 27 or so with Dareus accounted for?

I'd expect us to maybe spend to 20 million under.I updated it after you posted this.

Were probably at 20 mill under right now +/- a few million.

[Mr. Pink]

I updated it after you posted this.

Were probably at 20 mill under right now +/- a few million.


Ok, we're about done outside of maybe a depth guy at LB and S.

[X-Era]

Ok, we're about done outside of maybe a depth guy at LB and S.I don't give a **** about Ralph's wallett. They have 7 mill to spend at least as far as I'm concerned since they didn't get Poz. That should go into the team, not in Ralph's pocket.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't give a **** about Ralph's wallett. They have 7 mill to spend at least as far as I'm concerned since they didn't get Poz. That should go into the team, not in Ralph's pocket.


Unfortunately all Ralph cares about is his wallet. That should be more than obvious to anyone by now.

[X-Era]

Unfortunately all Ralph cares about is his wallet. That should be more than obvious to anyone by now.I'm not even hearing it. Sorry, I'm tired of that BS.

[Michael82]

Are we at 27 or so with Dareus accounted for?

I'd expect us to maybe spend to 20 million under.

Not as much as the Bengals....they are $50 million under the cap. :shocked:

[Michael82]

Also odd that the minimum floor starts in 2013, when the Bills Toronto deal and stadium lease is up following the 2012 season...

-Bill

That concerns me too. I wonder why they picked that date. :scared: :nervous:

[EricStratton]

And I realize this is borderline conspiracy theory and may open Pandora's box, but it's awfully convenient that the cap floor kicks in the season AFTER the stadium lease with the county ends....



Borderline?


So in your brain was the entire NFL Lockout a huge sinister plan to help Buffalo get out of it's stadium lease?

[BillsFever21]

Not true. Buffalo could be under 89%

On a leaguewide basis cash salary must total 99% of the cap the next two years. That does not mean per team. In other words, if the Jets spend 140 million in cash and the Bills spend 100 million the league is in compliance. Starting in 2013, each team will have to spend 89% of the salary cap in cash, over a 4 year period. That means that if a team is filled with dead money they don’t have to overspend in cash that year to reach the minimum. They have 4 years to spend it, so if the salary cap was $120 million from 2013-2017 each team has to spend around $427 million to be in compliance with the CBA.

What is this the cap and trade version of the NFL? Teams can buy salary cap money from other teams lol