Forked Thread: While many are whining...ENOUGH of the Redskins excuse

[OpIv37]

Forked from: While many are whining... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3496268)


we've gone through this already. Insisting via FA does not work either. The Raiders and redskins did it and failed and we did it with Bledsoe ,Spikes and co. and failed

Every time someone on this site complains about the Bills not doing enough in free agency, someone has to bring up the Redskins.

"well, the Redskins spent big money on this guy and he did nothing. So the Bills are doing the right thin and building through the draft."

This is another mind-**** by the Bills' FO.

The reality is that there is a happy medium. It's very possible for a team to improve via FA without going crazy on big name FA's like the Redskins do.

The Redskins excuse is just a convenient cop-out that allows the FO to avoid spending money, and fans shouldn't buy into it.

[jcdavey]

the happy medium you speak of , is signing meat and potatoes FAs , shying away from the huge names, and making smart trades to improve your depth without giving up high future draft picks

this is the problem the redskins got into, they'd sign high priced FAs, trade high draft picks away

then they'd wind up being screwed....

[Night Train]

This team was rock bottom just 18 months ago when Gailey took over. Bottom 1-2 in actual talent.

So now the formula is draft talent and sign what few players are willing to come to a non-winner that hopefully is moving forward the right way. Along the way, you take calculated gambles like Merriman.

This is probably another 4-5 win season while many young guys go through growing pains. Then you draft your QB in 2012, (with 4-5 1st round types showing) and will have to suffer through some rookie mistakes.

There is no quick fix in FA, since all things being equal the player will always select a playoff caliber team. (Bills not even close ) So you do build through the draft and it will take time. (3-4 years ) after you bottom out. It's only compounded when it's Buffalo and it's perception of bad weather and poor ownership.


I don't expect to be watching many wins at all this season. I hope to be watching progress.

[X-Era]

This team was rock bottom just 18 months ago when Gailey took over. Bottom 1-2 in actual talent.

So now the formula is draft talent and sign what few players are willing to come to a non-winner that hopefully is moving forward the right way. Along the way, you take calculated gambles like Merriman.

This is probably another 4-5 win season while many young guys go through growing pains. Then you draft your QB in 2012, (with 4-5 1st round types showing) and will have to suffer through some rookie mistakes.

There is no quick fix in FA, since all things being equal the player will always select a playoff caliber team. (Bills not even close ) So you do build through the draft and it will take time. (3-4 years ) after you bottom out. It's only compounded when it's Buffalo and it's perception of bad weather and poor ownership.


I don't expect to be watching many wins at all this season. I hope to be watching progress.I'm fine with second tier guys or decent guys signed after the frenzy dies down. If your not going to spend 10 mill per on anyone, sign two at 5 mill per... we have plenty of needs both at starting positions and depth.

[DraftBoy]

This team was rock bottom just 18 months ago when Gailey took over. Bottom 1-2 in actual talent.
So now the formula is draft talent and sign what few players are willing to come to a non-winner that hopefully is moving forward the right way. Along the way, you take calculated gambles like Merriman.

This is probably another 4-5 win season while many young guys go through growing pains. Then you draft your QB in 2012, (with 4-5 1st round types showing) and will have to suffer through some rookie mistakes.

There is no quick fix in FA, since all things being equal the player will always select a playoff caliber team. (Bills not even close ) So you do build through the draft and it will take time. (3-4 years ) after you bottom out. It's only compounded when it's Buffalo and it's perception of bad weather and poor ownership.


I don't expect to be watching many wins at all this season. I hope to be watching progress.
Are you saying this team isn't still bottom 1-2 in talent?

[FlyingDutchman]

Forked from: While many are whining... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3496268)



Every time someone on this site complains about the Bills not doing enough in free agency, someone has to bring up the Redskins.

"well, the Redskins spent big money on this guy and he did nothing. So the Bills are doing the right thin and building through the draft."

This is another mind-**** by the Bills' FO.

The reality is that there is a happy medium. It's very possible for a team to improve via FA without going crazy on big name FA's like the Redskins do.

The Redskins excuse is just a convenient cop-out that allows the FO to avoid spending money, and fans shouldn't buy into it.

So what are your suggestions...Who would you like to seen them go after, and how willing do you think that player was to join us? This team was a Clabo away from a pretty good FA period. Please explain though instead of just complainin. Specifically what would you have like to have seen done

[better days]

Are you saying this team isn't still bottom 1-2 in talent?

Are you saying the Bills are bottom 1-2 in talent? I would say the Panthers, Browns, Seahawks, 49ers & Titans have less talent than the Bills.

With the addition of Wannstadt, I think the Bills also have better coaching than those teams.

[OpIv37]

So what are your suggestions...Who would you like to seen them go after, and how willing do you think that player was to join us? This team was a Clabo away from a pretty good FA period. Please explain though instead of just complainin. Specifically what would you have like to have seen done
The thought process is than every time the FO fails to sign a FA- either because they're not interested or because they fail, like with Clabo- numerous people on this website bring up the Redskins excuse to defend the FO.

The Redskins' failures have nothing to do with the Bills or whether or not we should sign a particular FA. If a guy isn't right for us, fine, but when a guy is right for us, don't let our FO off the hook because the Redskins signed Haynesworth. It's a red herring argument that gets used on this site far too often and it's very frustrating.

[justasportsfan]

Forked from: While many are whining... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3496268)



Every time someone on this site complains about the Bills not doing enough in free agency, someone has to bring up the Redskins.

"well, the Redskins spent big money on this guy and he did nothing. So the Bills are doing the right thin and building through the draft."

This is another mind-**** by the Bills' FO.

The reality is that there is a happy medium. It's very possible for a team to improve via FA without going crazy on big name FA's like the Redskins do.

The Redskins excuse is just a convenient cop-out that allows the FO to avoid spending money, and fans shouldn't buy into it.


It's not an excuse. It's a fact! I mentioned the bills and raiders as well not just the redskins.

Okay if you want me to to leave out the redskins I will. The bills' sb team was built via the DRAFT. Did we retool with guys like Bennett and Lofton? Yes we did but not after the bills built their core with the draft. The Pats did the same thing by bringing in Welker and Moss but not until they've built via the draft.

Staying with the bills, how did the Bledsoe, Milloy, Fletcher , Posey etc. era compare to the Kelly era? Draft vs. FA. The best teams that have built dynasties were built via the draft. Care to argue that?

You call yourself a realist yet you try and argue with the ways of Polian that WORKS ! Dynasties of today were built via the draft. You can argue with the REALITY that teams like Colts, Steelers, Pats and even the chargers were built via the draft but don't call yourself a realist when you are aguing with reality.

Why do you think the Pats stockpile draft picks instead of stockpiling FA's? Even when they get FA's they don't give up high draft picks to get them. Argue with BB all you want.

[trapezeus]

What frustrates me the most about this FA time is that the bills seemed to have no plan for if poz doesn't sign. And the FA that they did target, they let slip away and didn't have an answer for that.

The team's draft on paper was good. getting more LB depth and RT and overall OL would show that they were serious about improving.

As it stands now, they lose poz and bring in a decent name but a guy with a history of getting hurt. they let the younger solution in kevin burnett go. They can't close on Clabo. And they haven't brough in any bodies on the OL.

But they found the time to sign a 5th punt returner on a team that notoriously doesn't get 3rd down stops.

the whole thing comes off as sloppy. Then you watch the sabres move within a single day from plan A to plan B and come out ahead on paper. Where are the bills' moves. its just lip service of "we are getting better by doing nothing."

I would love to be wrong this year, but i seriously don't see this team doing much better than last year. which may be the plan all along. get luck.

[justasportsfan]

BTW, OP you *****ed and whined when the bills didn't do anything to fix the OL only to have those whines blow up in your face when the bills brought in Dockery and company. How did Dockery and co turn out?

[Ickybaluky]

Okay if you want me to to leave out the redskins I will. The bills' sb team was built via the DRAFT. Did we retool with guys like Bennett and Lofton? Yes we did but not after the bills built their core with the draft. The Pats did the same thing by bringing in Welker and Moss but not until they've built via the draft.

True free agency didn't happen until the mid-1990's, so of course most teams were built through the draft.

I think good teams get players from a number of areas: draft, undrafted players, free agents, trades, waiver pickups, canada... basically anywhere they can get a player who can help them.

The draft is important, but really it is about getting the right players for your team, no matter how you get them.

[justasportsfan]

True free agency didn't happen until the mid-1990's, so of course most teams were built through the draft..Polian still doesn't build via FA and BB still builds via the draft. BB retools but he gets them really cheap. Even Pioli is building KC via the draft. I realize Cassel is not a KC draft pick but he was with Pioli at NE.




I think good teams get players from a number of areas: draft, undrafted players, free agents, trades, waiver pickups, canada... basically anywhere they can get a player who can help them.

The draft is important, but really it is about getting the right players for your team, no matter how you get them.


I agree. Successful teams build a foundation first and then fillin the pieces.

It wouldn't be smart to buy appliances first and then buy a house later or else you're screwed if those appliances don't fit.

[better days]

It's not an excuse. It's a fact! I mentioned the bills and raiders as well not just the redskins.

Okay if you want me to to leave out the redskins I will. The bills' sb team was built via the DRAFT. Did we retool with guys like Bennett and Lofton? Yes we did but not after the bills built their core with the draft. The Pats did the same thing by bringing in Welker and Moss but not until they've built via the draft.

Staying with the bills, how did the Bledsoe, Milloy, Fletcher , Posey etc. era compare to the Kelly era? Draft vs. FA. The best teams that have built dynasties were built via the draft. Care to argue that?

You call yourself a realist yet you try and argue with the ways of Polian that WORKS ! Dynasties of today were built via the draft. You can argue with the REALITY that teams like Colts, Steelers, Pats and even the chargers were built via the draft but don't call yourself a realist when you are aguing with reality.

Why do you think the Pats stockpile draft picks instead of stockpiling FA's? Even when they get FA's they don't give up high draft picks to get them. Argue with BB all you want.

You can add Tampa as a team built through the draft. Both the Super Bowl team & current team, as well as Atlanta.

[sdbillsfan2]

op...will you please address FlyingDutchman's question so we can have a better idea of where your coming from.

"Specifically what would you have like to have seen done "

we can say get this guy or that one, but if they don't want to play in Buffalo, you can't force them to sign. Guys don't want to play in Buffalo for many reasons. IE:
1 not a contender
2 the weather
3 the city doesn't have the glitz of the larger markets

get my point?

Yes OBD is responsible for the mess we got in. But the first thing you do to get out of the hole you dig is, put down the shovel. I think we did that last year. Now we have to climb out of that ten year hole. If we don't get a good grip, we'll slide back down. The hole was deep , it's going to take time.


SO again I ask, what would YOU do ? Specifically !
Thanks.

[OpIv37]

It's not an excuse. It's a fact! I mentioned the bills and raiders as well not just the redskins.

Okay if you want me to to leave out the redskins I will. The bills' sb team was built via the DRAFT. Did we retool with guys like Bennett and Lofton? Yes we did but not after the bills built their core with the draft. The Pats did the same thing by bringing in Welker and Moss but not until they've built via the draft.

Staying with the bills, how did the Bledsoe, Milloy, Fletcher , Posey etc. era compare to the Kelly era? Draft vs. FA. The best teams that have built dynasties were built via the draft. Care to argue that?

You call yourself a realist yet you try and argue with the ways of Polian that WORKS ! Dynasties of today were built via the draft. You can argue with the REALITY that teams like Colts, Steelers, Pats and even the chargers were built via the draft but don't call yourself a realist when you are aguing with reality.

Why do you think the Pats stockpile draft picks instead of stockpiling FA's? Even when they get FA's they don't give up high draft picks to get them. Argue with BB all you want.

First, you can't compare the Bledsoe era to the Kelly era because there WAS NO FA IN THE KELLY ERA, at least not for most of it. And we all know we had better people running the organization back then, so if there was FA, we would have done much better. Back when Polian was here, teams could afford to build through the draft because most players still spent their careers with one team. That's not true anymore. It's apples to oranges and you simply refuse to see it.

You mention the Patriots- what about Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Danny Woodhead? The Patriots didn't draft any of them and they were all key pieces to their success.

Why is it that the Redskins are always the example for FA, and not the Saints signing Brees or the Jets signing LT or the Patriots signing Randy Moss? There are plenty of success stories as well.

[OpIv37]

op...will you please address FlyingDutchman's question so we can have a better idea of where your coming from.

"Specifically what would you have like to have seen done "

we can say get this guy or that one, but if they don't want to play in Buffalo, you can't force them to sign. Guys don't want to play in Buffalo for many reasons. IE:
1 not a contender
2 the weather
3 the city doesn't have the glitz of the larger markets

get my point?

Yes OBD is responsible for the mess we got in. But the first thing you do to get out of the hole you dig is, put down the shovel. I think we did that last year. Now we have to climb out of that ten year hole. If we don't get a good grip, we'll slide back down. The hole was deep , it's going to take time.


SO again I ask, what would YOU do ? Specifically !
Thanks.

This thread was never about what I wanted done or didn't want done. You're trying to derail the thread. The thread is about people using the Redskins excuse to defend the Bills' FO.

[OpIv37]

BTW, OP you *****ed and whined when the bills didn't do anything to fix the OL only to have those whines blow up in your face when the bills brought in Dockery and company. How did Dockery and co turn out?

So, because Dockery was a mistake, we should guarantee a perpetual rebuilding cycle by only filling holes in the draft (which we haven't even done because we've been going BPA, by the way) and never signing FA's.

Makes perfect sense.

Again, why is Dockery your example and not Spikes or Sam Adams?

[OpIv37]

BTW, OP you *****ed and whined when the bills didn't do anything to fix the OL only to have those whines blow up in your face when the bills brought in Dockery and company. How did Dockery and co turn out?

Oh and remember when we tried to build the OL through the draft by drafting Mike Williams? How'd that turn out?

At that time, we built a great D through FA (Spikes, Adams, Fletcher) but the O we tried to build through the draft crashed and burned. Hmmmmm.....

[sdbillsfan2]

This thread was never about what I wanted done or didn't want done. You're trying to derail the thread. The thread is about people using the Redskins excuse to defend the Bills' FO.


fair enough.... Would you feel more comfortable if I made it a new thread?

[mysticsoto]

You can add Tampa as a team built through the draft. Both the Super Bowl team & current team, as well as Atlanta.

Although Turner has been big for Atl and he was a FA from SD.

[justasportsfan]

First, you can't compare the Bledsoe era to the Kelly era because there WAS NO FA IN THE KELLY ERA, at least not for most of it. And we all know we had better people running the organization back then, so if there was FA, we would have done much better. Back when Polian was here, teams could afford to build through the draft because most players still spent their careers with one team. That's not true anymore. It's apples to oranges and you simply refuse to see it..
like I mentioned to Ickykucky, Polian continues not to builds via FA. The top teams and up and coming teams continue to build via FA.


You mention the Patriots- what about Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Danny Woodhead? The Patriots didn't draft any of them and they were all key pieces to their success.
.Did you not read my post? Those are final pieces but not core players except for Welker. Woodhead might as well be a draft pick because he was acquired during his rookie year. Make no mistake, the PAts' core was built via the draft. How much did Moss cost the Pats? a 4th rd. pick.



Why is it that the Redskins are always the example for FA, and not the Saints signing Brees or the Jets signing LT or the Patriots signing Randy Moss? There are plenty of success stories as well.

Do you use your own logic only when it suits you? The saints are the exception to the rule. Again, Moss is not different from the bills signing Lofton. I've already addressed that.

Pretty convenient for you to leave out the Colts , Chargers, Steelers and use the lone exception to the rule the saints. :rolleyes:


I already left the redskins out of it yet you bring them back to the disscussion. Since you insist, they are PROOF that building via FA doesn't work.

[justasportsfan]

Oh and remember when we tried to build the OL through the draft by drafting Mike Williams? How'd that turn out?

At that time, we built a great D through FA (Spikes, Adams, Fletcher) but the O we tried to build through the draft crashed and burned. Hmmmmm.....


lol. The problem is not building via the draft, the problem is NOT drafting right. Even you said this several times. You're chasing your own tail.

Fletcher and co got us no where. The reason that D was good because of Lebaeu. The minute we let him go that D choked and got the team nowhere.

[OpIv37]

Do you use your own logic only when it suits you? The saints are the exception to the rule. Again, Moss is not different from the bills signing Lofton. I've already addressed that.

Pretty convenient for you to leave out the Colts , Chargers, Steelers and use the lone exception to the rule the saints. :rolleyes:


I already left the redskins out of it yet you bring them back to the disscussion. Since you insist, they are PROOF that building via FA doesn't work.

Successful FA signings aren't the exception to the rule. They happen all the time. The Bills failing with the Dockery signing and Danny Snyder being stupid don't make good FA signings the exception to the rule.

[justasportsfan]

Successful FA signings aren't the exception to the rule. They happen all the time. The Bills failing with the Dockery signing and Danny Snyder being stupid don't make good FA signings the exception to the rule.

I never disagreed that signing FA's don't work. What I am saying is building your foundation/core via FA does not.

Again, you don't buy appliances first and then a house after.

[OpIv37]

lol. The problem is not building via the draft, the problem is NOT drafting right. Even you said this several times. You're chasing your own tail.

Fletcher and co got us no where. The reason that D was good because of Lebaeu. The minute we let him go that D choked and got the team nowhere.

The problem is BOTH.

Bad drafting and either a refusal to use FA or poor use of it when we do.

But when the team needs so much improvement, relying on the draft only guarantees a never-ending rebuilding cycle.

The FO is basically saying "Well we're going to draft for BPA so we know we need a RT but we didn't draft one because there were better players available at other positions. And we're not going to sign a RT in FA because we're building through the draft."

What? And you guys are defending this mind-numbing stupidity because of Dockery and the Redskins? Unbelievable.

[DraftBoy]

Are you saying the Bills are bottom 1-2 in talent? I would say the Panthers, Browns, Seahawks, 49ers & Titans have less talent than the Bills.

With the addition of Wannstadt, I think the Bills also have better coaching than those teams.

Absolutely, in terms of talent they are. In terms of potential talent they are not but that potential is almost fully unrealized still.

Wanny does nothing for this staff, he's a 43 coach being added to a 34 scheme. He's more of a wildcard than anything else at this point.

[justasportsfan]

The problem is BOTH.

Bad drafting and either a refusal to use FA or poor use of it when we do.

But when the team needs so much improvement, relying on the draft only guarantees a never-ending rebuilding cycle.


The FO is basically saying "Well we're going to draft for BPA so we know we need a RT but we didn't draft one because there were better players available at other positions. And we're not going to sign a RT in FA because we're building through the draft."

What? And you guys are defending this mind-numbing stupidity because of Dockery and the Redskins? Unbelievable.

Again, I never said relying on draft only. I am saying building your core via the draft is the way the best teams right now have done it and the proof that its works is out there.

[OpIv37]

Again, I never said relying on draft only. I am saying building your core via the draft is the way the best teams right now have done it and the proof that its works is out there.

so, we're just supposed to sit here with huge holes and millions of dollars of cap space and not sign anyone until the "core" is built? That doesn't make much sense.

[justasportsfan]

so, we're just supposed to sit here with huge holes and millions of dollars of cap space and not sign anyone until the "core" is built? That doesn't make much sense.Yeah, Pitts , Colts, Chargers, Packers,Pats, Bucs, KC , Texans, Ravens, etc. are not making sense because they built their core via the draft and plugged holes after . Thats a REALITY. You're arguing with reality.

You want to do it the seahawks way. Lets see how they do.

[FlyingDutchman]

The thought process is than every time the FO fails to sign a FA- either because they're not interested or because they fail, like with Clabo- numerous people on this website bring up the Redskins excuse to defend the FO.


Ok. Simple question though. What would you have liked to see the Bills do this FA period and where do you think those players desire levels were to join the Bills. Just curious of your opinion

[FlyingDutchman]

so, we're just supposed to sit here with huge holes and millions of dollars of cap space and not sign anyone until the "core" is built? That doesn't make much sense.

Makes sense to me

[better days]

Again, I never said relying on draft only. I am saying building your core via the draft is the way the best teams right now have done it and the proof that its works is out there.

You can add a piece as Atlanta did with Turner or N.O. did with Brees, but the core should be built through the draft as you said.

Nix has said that if you draft well, you can turn an entire team over every 4 years through the draft & be successful. That is the Bills plan.

[psubills62]

The poor drafting has been our downfall, period. Free agency is optional and has been shown to be relatively unnecessary. If a team doesn't draft well, they aren't going to be good, and free agency won't change that.

[trapezeus]

this is why it's ralph's fault.

1. Twice he had great personnel men in polian and butler but he chased them out.
2. brought in donahoe but was unable to see that the guy was trying to prove bill cowher needed him and was so gun shy about getting challenged that he put two weak coaches out despite having ok talent
3. got so nervous about outside guys that he brought marv in who picked his buddy who is hands down the worst NFL coach to get as many years as he did as a head coach. And in year two when the wheels were clearly off, they asked for patience.
4. finally when enough was enough, he had to deal with the fact that his mismanagement made it impossible to bring in the top line coaching he wanted.
5. this year, with years of bungling FA, (namely spending money on the wrong people or not spending enough to help good people get even betteR) players opt not to come here.

That's the problem over the last 30 years.

AS for the bills decision in FA, no one is saying you need to get the biggest names, but at least admit where the weaknesses are and get some bodies that can make us better. stop picking up week 8 journeymen and trying to fit them into the scheme way too late with people who are way too outskilled.

Again, it's about having a vision and following it. the bed made from the points above means the bills have to spend a little more to get their guy. And it's going to be that way until they win. And what pisses me off the most is that ralph blames us for this for our town being not so good, when in fact, no one cares about the town. They care that the team has a shot. and time and time again he has managed to prevent this team from being good.

That's where the frustration is.

[OpIv37]

Ok. Simple question though. What would you have liked to see the Bills do this FA period and where do you think those players desire levels were to join the Bills. Just curious of your opinion

1. Successfully sign Clabo
2. Get Burnett instead of letting him go to the Fish.

And I'm glad the Bills' FO didn't re-sign Poz because I think he's mediocre and part of the culture of losing that we're trying to break, but the FO DID say they wanted to re-sign him and failed to get it done.

And I don't know about Clabo or Burnett but Poz said publicly that he wanted to stay in Buffalo. Maybe he didn't want to stay in Buffalo and was just being diplomatic instead of publicly trashing the team or the city, but he DID say it.

And it's part of the FO's job to get players to want to come here. Poz went to Jax and Burnett went to Miami- those teams aren't much better off than we are. It's not like we're losing players to the Steelers and Patriots.

[justasportsfan]

You can add a piece as Atlanta did with Turner or N.O. did with Brees, but the core should be built through the draft as you said.

Nix has said that if you draft well, you can turn an entire team over every 4 years through the draft & be successful. That is the Bills plan.


exactly. If you want to build a team thats consistently competitive for years to come, you do it via the draft. I am all for using FA to REINFORCE a team . This is exactly what the Pats are doing. They stockpile draft picks and then reinforce via FA.

[justasportsfan]

1. Successfully sign Clabo
2. Get Burnett instead of letting him go to the Fish.

And I'm glad the Bills' FO didn't re-sign Poz because I think he's mediocre and part of the culture of losing that we're trying to break, but the FO DID say they wanted to re-sign him and failed to get it done.

And I don't know about Clabo or Burnett but Poz said publicly that he wanted to stay in Buffalo. Maybe he didn't want to stay in Buffalo and was just being diplomatic instead of publicly trashing the team or the city, but he DID say it.

And it's part of the FO's job to get players to want to come here. Poz went to Jax and Burnett went to Miami- those teams aren't much better off than we are. It's not like we're losing players to the Steelers and Patriots.

In other words we should overpayfor FA's every year?

[better days]

this is why it's ralph's fault.

1. Twice he had great personnel men in polian and butler but he chased them out.
2. brought in donahoe but was unable to see that the guy was trying to prove bill cowher needed him and was so gun shy about getting challenged that he put two weak coaches out despite having ok talent
3. got so nervous about outside guys that he brought marv in who picked his buddy who is hands down the worst NFL coach to get as many years as he did as a head coach. And in year two when the wheels were clearly off, they asked for patience.
4. finally when enough was enough, he had to deal with the fact that his mismanagement made it impossible to bring in the top line coaching he wanted.
5. this year, with years of bungling FA, (namely spending money on the wrong people or not spending enough to help good people get even betteR) players opt not to come here.

That's the problem over the last 30 years.

AS for the bills decision in FA, no one is saying you need to get the biggest names, but at least admit where the weaknesses are and get some bodies that can make us better. stop picking up week 8 journeymen and trying to fit them into the scheme way too late with people who are way too outskilled.

Again, it's about having a vision and following it. the bed made from the points above means the bills have to spend a little more to get their guy. And it's going to be that way until they win. And what pisses me off the most is that ralph blames us for this for our town being not so good, when in fact, no one cares about the town. They care that the team has a shot. and time and time again he has managed to prevent this team from being good.

That's where the frustration is.

I don't think he chased off Butler. S.D. pursued him & he fell for them. Ralph wanted to sign him to a new contract & he kept putting Ralph off.

As it played out, I'm happy he left. If he stayed, A J Smith would be Gm now instead of Nix who I think will prove to be a much better GM.

[justasportsfan]

this is why it's ralph's fault.

1. Twice he had great personnel men in polian and butler but he chased them out.



I agree. Nix however is doing exactly what both Polian and Butler did.Build via the drat which in turn made the bills/Chargers competitive for years.

Although Butler screwed up his last draft with the bills, the chargers til this day are competitive because of the draft.

[FlyingDutchman]

1. Successfully sign Clabo
2. Get Burnett instead of letting him go to the Fish.

And I'm glad the Bills' FO didn't re-sign Poz because I think he's mediocre and part of the culture of losing that we're trying to break, but the FO DID say they wanted to re-sign him and failed to get it done.

And I don't know about Clabo or Burnett but Poz said publicly that he wanted to stay in Buffalo. Maybe he didn't want to stay in Buffalo and was just being diplomatic instead of publicly trashing the team or the city, but he DID say it.

And it's part of the FO's job to get players to want to come here. Poz went to Jax and Burnett went to Miami- those teams aren't much better off than we are. It's not like we're losing players to the Steelers and Patriots.

Wait so the Bills letting Poz go which you wanted basically no matter what, and most of us said it would be right to let him go if he wanted too much (which he did) is now a sign of a bad FO? NOW THATS A FAILURE? You dont know what really goes on or whats lip service there really is but now you call it this a FAILURE?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vRfuHN52y50/TSMSy-1w_ZI/AAAAAAAAANc/W3cOI2lImZw/s1600/banging_head_on_keyboard.jpg

[Ginger Vitis]

I don't think he chased off Butler.

Yeah he did.. Butler couldn't stand Ralph and his meddling anymore..Couldn't wait to leave Buffalo

[justasportsfan]

Wait so the Bills letting Poz go which you wanted basically matter what, and most of us said it would be right to let him go if he wanted too much (which he did) is now a sign of a bad FO? NOW THATS A FAILURE? You dont know what really goes on or whats lip service there really is but now you call it this a FAILURE?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vRfuHN52y50/TSMSy-1w_ZI/AAAAAAAAANc/W3cOI2lImZw/s1600/banging_head_on_keyboard.jpg


yup. Op is saying Nix is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[mysticsoto]

1. Successfully sign Clabo
2. Get Burnett instead of letting him go to the Fish.

And I'm glad the Bills' FO didn't re-sign Poz because I think he's mediocre and part of the culture of losing that we're trying to break, but the FO DID say they wanted to re-sign him and failed to get it done.

And I don't know about Clabo or Burnett but Poz said publicly that he wanted to stay in Buffalo. Maybe he didn't want to stay in Buffalo and was just being diplomatic instead of publicly trashing the team or the city, but he DID say it.

And it's part of the FO's job to get players to want to come here. Poz went to Jax and Burnett went to Miami- those teams aren't much better off than we are. It's not like we're losing players to the Steelers and Patriots.

You can't force people to come here. Clearly the Bills were willing to offer someone who they thought was worth it a fair contract. Clabo declnied b'cse he wanted to stay in ATL - not b'cse our offer wasn't good.

Poz was made a reasonable offer based on what they thought his skillset was. If he cared about Buffalo the way Clabo cared about ATL, he would have chosen us. He valued money more. Fine. Not complaining at all, but he was expendable and what we got is equal if not better. Clabo is a bigger hit, but one we had no control over.

[OpIv37]

In other words we should overpayfor FA's every year?

1. I don't think we would have had to overpay for Burnett
2. We have a ****load of cap space that we're doing nothing with and no one worth re-signing. If we overpay a little now, who cares? We can always drop him in a couple years if we need the cap space for someone younger/better, and if the deal is structured right, the cap hit will be minimal.

[justasportsfan]

You can't force people to come here. Clearly the Bills were willing to offer someone who they thought was worth it a fair contract. Clabo declnied b'cse he wanted to stay in ATL - not b'cse our offer wasn't good.

Poz was made a reasonable offer based on what they thought his skillset was. If he cared about Buffalo the way Clabo cared about ATL, he would have chosen us. He valued money more. Fine. Not complaining at all, but he was expendable and what we got is equal if not better. Clabo is a bigger hit, but one we had no control over.


How do you "successfully" sign Clabo when his family wanted to stay in Atl? You overpay him like Dockery.

[OpIv37]

Wait so the Bills letting Poz go which you wanted basically no matter what, and most of us said it would be right to let him go if he wanted too much (which he did) is now a sign of a bad FO? NOW THATS A FAILURE? You dont know what really goes on or whats lip service there really is but now you call it this a FAILURE?




The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz. Poz signed elsewhere. That's a failure.

The FO did not do what they said they were going to do. The fact that I didn't want them to do what they said they were going to do is completely irrelevant.

[FlyingDutchman]

2. We have a ****load of cap space that we're doing nothing with and no one worth re-signing. If we overpay a little now, who cares? We can always drop him in a couple years if we need the cap space for someone younger/better, and if the deal is structured right, the cap hit will be minimal.

Ummmmmm I made this very argument about Poz when I said if its worth it to sign him (price is close) what do you care if we pay a little more than you think hes worth, just to avoid a hole and having to find a replacement and you flew off the handle about cash to cap and how could I not care and blah blah...dude you CONSTANTLY contradict yourself and make arguments just bc youre a disgruntled fan looking for ANYTHING to complain about

[FlyingDutchman]

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz. Poz signed elsewhere. That's a failure.

The FO did not do what they said they were going to do. The fact that I didn't want them to do what they said they were going to do is completely irrelevant.

Im sure they would have liked to sign him. At a reasonable price. He def wasnt worth what he got. So they let him go. What dont you get? Am I taking crazy pills, how are we flipping on this poz thing?

[OpIv37]

You can't force people to come here. Clearly the Bills were willing to offer someone who they thought was worth it a fair contract. Clabo declnied b'cse he wanted to stay in ATL - not b'cse our offer wasn't good.

Poz was made a reasonable offer based on what they thought his skillset was. If he cared about Buffalo the way Clabo cared about ATL, he would have chosen us. He valued money more. Fine. Not complaining at all, but he was expendable and what we got is equal if not better. Clabo is a bigger hit, but one we had no control over.

Force? No.

Convince? Yes.

Do the excuses ever end?

First, it's "We are not going to sign anyone because we are building through the draft and don't want to be the Redskins" then it's "no one is available" then it's "no one wants to come here."

We're not the only bad team in the NFL. Somehow, at least a couple of teams manage to improve every year while we just spin our wheels... I'd love to know why these problems don't seem to hold other teams back as much as they hold us back...

[justasportsfan]

1. I don't think we would have had to overpay for Burnett
2. We have a ****load of cap space that we're doing nothing with and no one worth re-signing. If we overpay a little now, who cares? We can always drop him in a couple years if we need the cap space for someone younger/better, and if the deal is structured right, the cap hit will be minimal.


I have a feeling the bills are angling to rework Stevie's contract as stated on BB.com. I also wouldn't be surprised if they do the same for Fitz depending on how he does this year. Kyle Williams is also grossly unperpaid under the new CBA.

[FlyingDutchman]

dude OP you are simply ridiculous

[justasportsfan]

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz. Poz signed elsewhere. That's a failure.




yup the FO failed to OVERPAY these guys. If Nix successfully re-signed POz by paying him Poz 7 million per year for 6 years, you'd be *****ing up a storm. Nix can't win. :shakeno:


Force? No.

Convince? Yes.


the only way you convince a guy whose family wants to stay in ATL is to overpay him. That would be a problem to you as well.

[OpIv37]

Ummmmmm I made this very argument about Poz when I said if its worth it to sign him (price is close) what do you care if we pay a little more than you think hes worth, just to avoid a hole and having to find a replacement and you flew off the handle about cash to cap and how could I not care and blah blah...dude you CONSTANTLY contradict yourself and make arguments just bc youre a disgruntled fan looking for ANYTHING to complain about

No.... I flew off the handle because as long as we have Poz, there would not be a replacement drafted or signed. We had a hole at ILB even with Poz.

I'm not contradicting myself at all- you are mis-stating my argument.

[OpIv37]

dude OP you are simply ridiculous

I'm not the one defending the FO that's running the team into the ground.

[mysticsoto]

Force? No.

Convince? Yes.

Do the excuses ever end?

First, it's "We are not going to sign anyone because we are building through the draft and don't want to be the Redskins" then it's "no one is available" then it's "no one wants to come here."

We're not the only bad team in the NFL. Somehow, at least a couple of teams manage to improve every year while we just spin our wheels... I'd love to know why these problems don't seem to hold other teams back as much as they hold us back...

How do you convince someone who has a HOME in ATL and whose family likes and wants to remain in ATL to leave? Full details weren't released, but it was clear he was offered substantially more than what he contented himself with taking. In fact, most analysts made the claim at the start that with Clabo, it wouldn't be about the money.

Let's see you try to uproot your family to somewhere else with Dora not agreeing and see how far you get...

[mysticsoto]

I'm not the one defending the FO that's running the team into the ground.

What? This administration is only in it's 2nd year and your claim is that they are running the team into the ground??? Please backup how you can make such a hasty judgement...

[FlyingDutchman]

No.... I flew off the handle because as long as we have Poz, there would not be a replacement drafted or signed. We had a hole at ILB even with Poz.

I'm not contradicting myself at all- you are mis-stating my argument.

Ok and we did just that and most people would say we upgraded...so the FO did what you wanted, didnt overpay for medicore talent, but yet thats a failure to you....

[trapezeus]

Justa, from our conversation, would you agree butler's short term as GM had him take a QB through a trade and a free agent pick up as his building of his team at the most important position?

also, i'd like to say reading this 3 page thread with the same cast of characters saying the same thing they always say passionately, has made me happy that the lockout has ended and i am getting my football legs back underneath me now.

Thanks to you all.

[FlyingDutchman]

How do you convince someone who has a HOME in ATL and whose family likes and wants to remain in ATL to leave? Full details weren't released, but it was clear he was offered substantially more than what he contented himself with taking. In fact, most analysts made the claim at the start that with Clabo, it wouldn't be about the money.

Let's see you try to uproot your family to somewhere else with Dora not agreeing and see how far you get...

exactly it would have to big a BIG increase in pay to uproot my family, leave a team that could possibly contend for a super bowl, and come to Buffalo

[OpIv37]

How do you convince someone who has a HOME in ATL and whose family likes and wants to remain in ATL to leave? Full details weren't released, but it was clear he was offered substantially more than what he contented himself with taking. In fact, most analysts made the claim at the start that with Clabo, it wouldn't be about the money.

Let's see you try to uproot your family to somewhere else with Dora not agreeing and see how far you get...

Dora left a ****ing tropical island (where her whole family lived at the time) to come to Northern VA because that's where the opportunities were. And after we spent 7 years working on our house to get it almost perfect, we're moving to Baltimore on Friday because that's where the opportunities are now.

There are ways to get people to move for the right opportunity. I don't know Clabo or his family personally so I don't know what it would have taken to get him to come to Buffalo, but both NFL players and regular people move for job opportunities all the time. It's the FO's job to figure out what it takes.

[justasportsfan]

Justa, from our conversation, would you agree butler's short term as GM had him take a QB through a trade and a free agent pick up as his building of his team at the most important position?
yes, he did. But Flutie wasn't there for the long haul . The drafting of Drew Brees was the plan to build via the draft.


also, i'd like to say reading this 3 page thread with the same cast of characters saying the same thing they always say passionately, has made me happy that the lockout has ended and i am getting my football legs back underneath me now.

Thanks to you all.?
you're welcome.

[DesertFox24]

Forked from: While many are whining... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3496268)



Every time someone on this site complains about the Bills not doing enough in free agency, someone has to bring up the Redskins.

"well, the Redskins spent big money on this guy and he did nothing. So the Bills are doing the right thin and building through the draft."

This is another mind-**** by the Bills' FO.

The reality is that there is a happy medium. It's very possible for a team to improve via FA without going crazy on big name FA's like the Redskins do.

The Redskins excuse is just a convenient cop-out that allows the FO to avoid spending money, and fans shouldn't buy into it.

Name the big free agents that the steelers and packers have brought in the fold in the past 3 years.

Yeah just one Charles Woodson and he was signed after he turned 30 and for a relative bargain.

[justasportsfan]

Dora left a ****ing tropical island (where her whole family lived at the time) to come to Northern VA because that's where the opportunities were. And after we spent 7 years working on our house to get it almost perfect, we're moving to Baltimore on Friday because that's where the opportunities are now.

There are ways to get people to move for the right opportunity. I don't know Clabo or his family personally so I don't know what it would have taken to get him to come to Buffalo, but both NFL players and regular people move for job opportunities all the time. It's the FO's job to figure out what it takes.

Dora wasn't making millions in PR and she isn't making millions now . And I take it she's moving somewhere else where she's getting paid more. Thats a crappy example to use on your part.

[OpIv37]

Ok and we did just that and most people would say we upgraded...so the FO did what you wanted, didnt overpay for medicore talent, but yet thats a failure to you....

Yes, we are better off now. But when Poz didn't re-sign, the FO didn't know they'd be able to get Barnett. They said they were going to do something and failed to do it.

This is what infuriates me. People just seem to forget that the past mistakes ever happened. When Poz walked, a lot of people on this board were livid. For once, I wasn't one of them, but everyone quickly forgot that the FO wanted to keep one of our own and failed to do it. When Ralph reinstated pay and benefits that were rescinded during the lockout, people were giving him credit and saying he wasn't cheap, as if he wasn't responsible for cutting them in the first place.

The FO makes a mistake, eventually corrects their own mistake, and then everyone acts like they did something great. Yeah, ok..... The FO did what I wanted, but not because it was their plan or they wanted to do it. They had to do it after they failed to get Poz.

[OpIv37]

Dora wasn't making millions in PR and she isn't making millions now . And I take it she's moving somewhere else where she's getting paid more. Thats a crappy example to use on your part.

Hahahahaha how so? An opportunity to make more money somewhere else is an opportunity regardless of whether a person makes $25,000 a year or $5 million a year.

[OpIv37]

Name the big free agents that the steelers and packers have brought in the fold in the past 3 years.

Yeah just one Charles Woodson and he was signed after he turned 30 and for a relative bargain.

Funny how you brought up the Steelers and the Pack but not the Patriots or the Saints...

[mysticsoto]

Dora left a ****ing tropical island (where her whole family lived at the time) to come to Northern VA because that's where the opportunities were. And after we spent 7 years working on our house to get it almost perfect, we're moving to Baltimore on Friday because that's where the opportunities are now.

There are ways to get people to move for the right opportunity. I don't know Clabo or his family personally so I don't know what it would have taken to get him to come to Buffalo, but both NFL players and regular people move for job opportunities all the time. It's the FO's job to figure out what it takes.

LOL! Op...you are regressing in your thinking...first, Clabo is doing JUST FINE in ATL. He's not in desperate need of an "opportunity". 2nd, there are no jobs in PR, and the whole place is in a worse economic mess than the US overall. Third, you would be complaining just as loud if it had taken LT type money $10 mil a year let's say, to get him to come here. Not only that, but now the rest of the line gets upset and the huge disparate difference and may not play up to their best level b'cse they are upset.

And the same goes with Poz. You pay based on what skill level you feel you are getting. With Clabo, the offer was a very decent one. He valued his home and roots more. Period. That's an inherent quality of Clabo himself and what he values, and not a fault on the FO - like you think it is!!!

[justasportsfan]

Hahahahaha how so? An opportunity to make more money somewhere else is an opportunity regardless of whether a person makes $25,000 a year or $5 million a year.Not eveyone is like that. I left So Florida where I could have made more money. Instead I cam back to WNY to make less but am happier being around family.

BS- If she was already making millions in PR while being with her family she wouldn't come here to the US unless it's for vacation.

[justasportsfan]

LOL! Op...you are regressing in your thinking...first, Clabo is doing JUST FINE in ATL. He's not in desperate need of an "opportunity". 2nd, there are no jobs in PR, and the whole place is in a worse economic mess than the US overall. Third, you would be complaining just as loud if it had taken LT type money $10 mil a year let's say, to get him to come here. Not only that, but now the rest of the line gets upset and the huge disparate difference and may not play up to their best level b'cse they are upset.

And the same goes with Poz. You pay based on what skill level you feel you are getting. With Clabo, the offer was a very decent one. He valued his home and roots more. Period. That's an inherent quality of Clabo himself and what he values, and not a fault on the FO - like you think it is!!!


Op is saying that Clabo is in the same situation as Dora was. He doesn't need anymore oppurtunites that Dora was desperately looking for. He's already making millions in a place his family wants to stay in.

[OpIv37]

LOL! Op...you are regressing in your thinking...first, Clabo is doing JUST FINE in ATL. He's not in desperate need of an "opportunity". 2nd, there are no jobs in PR, and the whole place is in a worse economic mess than the US overall. Third, you would be complaining just as loud if it had taken LT type money $10 mil a year let's say, to get him to come here. Not only that, but now the rest of the line gets upset and the huge disparate difference and may not play up to their best level b'cse they are upset.

And the same goes with Poz. You pay based on what skill level you feel you are getting. With Clabo, the offer was a very decent one. He valued his home and roots more. Period. That's an inherent quality of Clabo himself and what he values, and not a fault on the FO - like you think it is!!!

If Clabo values his home more than money, why was he even considering leaving? The fact that he would even listen to offers means there had to have been something that would have convinced him to go. And if there was nothing thing that would convince him to go, why was Buffalo wasting their time?

Oh, but I forgot. It's never the FO's fault.

And I'm really tired of the "well if this happened you'd be complaining just as loud" argument. No one knows how anyone else would have reacted in a hypothetical situation that never occurred. It's just a tactic to deflect attention away from the content of the post and onto the poster himself.

[OpIv37]

Op is saying that Clabo is in the same situation as Dora was. He doesn't need anymore oppurtunites that Dora was desperately looking for. He's already making millions in a place his family wants to stay in.

again, then why was he even listening to Buffalo's offer? A better opportunity is a better opportunity, period.

[FlyingDutchman]

Yes, we are better off now. But when Poz didn't re-sign, the FO didn't know they'd be able to get Barnett. They said they were going to do something and failed to do it.


Your whole argument for DAYS was that as long as Poz was on this team, there would never be anything done to upgrade through FA or let players come up through the ranks bc the FO would be content....dude...I cant handle you anymore this is ridiculous

[mysticsoto]

Op is saying that Clabo is in the same situation as Dora was. He doesn't need anymore oppurtunites that Dora was desperately looking for. He's already making millions in a place his family wants to stay in.

Justa...you know Cris...my best friend. His wife probably makes half or so of what she could make elsewhere. He's tried to get her to leave her company for awhile but she doesn't want to. She in comfortable there with the people, the job, her seniority level, etc. For some people, that comfortableness has an intangible value that you can't just buy off.

Op is apparently incapable of understanding that...

[OpIv37]

Your whole argument for DAYS was that as long as Poz was on this team, there would never be anything done to upgrade through FA or let players come up through the ranks bc the FO would be content....dude...I cant handle you anymore this is ridiculous

Yes, that's true.... I did say that, and it's perfectly consistent.

I wanted an UPGRADE for Poz.

Either sign a guy like Barnett, who is an upgrade, or get Poz out of the way and hope one of the young guys turns out to be an upgrade. The whole point was that I wasn't content with Poz.

I'm sorry that you can't handle that I wanted to upgrade an underperforming player. I'm sorry that you chant handle the fact that the FO failed to do what they said they would do.

[better days]

Yeah he did.. Butler couldn't stand Ralph and his meddling anymore..Couldn't wait to leave Buffalo

You know this how? Please provide a source. It is a well known fact the Chargers wanted to hire a new GM at the time & were after Butler.

[mysticsoto]

again, then why was he even listening to Buffalo's offer? A better opportunity is a better opportunity, period.

I get called by recruiters all the time. I always listen to their offers...doesn't mean I'm going to take it. In fact, not too long ago, I got a call about a 6 figure job in NYC. He was desperately trying to entice me - and I was like, HELL NO!

Happens all the time...can't believe you can't actually comprehend this.

[mysticsoto]

Yes, that's true.... I did say that, and it's perfectly consistent.

I wanted an UPGRADE for Poz.

Either sign a guy like Barnett, who is an upgrade, or get Poz out of the way and hope one of the young guys turns out to be an upgrade. The whole point was that I wasn't content with Poz.

I'm sorry that you can't handle that I wanted to upgrade an underperforming player. I'm sorry that you chant handle the fact that the FO failed to do what they said they would do.

So we did upgrade Poz with a more suited 3-4 player. So why aren't you singing praises of joy???

[OpIv37]

Justa...you know Cris...my best friend. His wife probably makes half or so of what she could make elsewhere. He's tried to get her to leave her company for awhile but she doesn't want to. She in comfortable there with the people, the job, her seniority level, etc. For some people, that comfortableness has an intangible value that you can't just buy off.

Op is apparently incapable of understanding that...

So, explain to me how other teams manage to sign FA's.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Our opponents upgrade every year, but when it comes to the Bills, everyone is content with their current situation and no one wants to rock the boat, even for a better opportunity. Stop and think about that for a second.

[OpIv37]

So we did upgrade Poz with a more suited 3-4 player. So why aren't you singing praises of joy???

I'm happy that we upgraded Poz.

But my opinion of Poz doesn't change the fact that the FO wanted to re-sign him and didn't. It doesn't change the fact that the FO failed to land Clabo or do anything else about the OT situation. It doesn't change the fact that we lost out on Burnett to a division rival.

And it doesn't change the original post that inspired this thread: The Redskins' past FA failures are not a legitimate excuse for this FO to not sign FA's.

[mikemac2001]

Pessimistic and Optimistic its who the person is

Op is = pessimistic
others are = optimistic

id prefer to look at positives instead of being a miserable ass

[OpIv37]

Pessimistic and Optimistic its who the person is

Op is = pessimistic
others are = optimistic

id prefer to look at positives instead of being a miserable ass

when the team is as bad as we are, it's not pessimism, it's realism.

You can look at the positives all you want. The negative reality will hit you in the face once the game starts, as it does every year.

[mysticsoto]

So, explain to me how other teams manage to sign FA's.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Our opponents upgrade every year, but when it comes to the Bills, everyone is content with their current situation and no one wants to rock the boat, even for a better opportunity. Stop and think about that for a second.

We did sign a FA. We replaced Poz with a more viable alternative to our scheme. Theoretically, you should be jumping for joy being that you considered Poz a liability. Instead, you are doing your perpetual whining.

The other huge position of need is RT and other than Clabo, there really isn't much out there that is much better than what we have.

[better days]

Absolutely, in terms of talent they are. In terms of potential talent they are not but that potential is almost fully unrealized still.

Wanny does nothing for this staff, he's a 43 coach being added to a 34 scheme. He's more of a wildcard than anything else at this point.

I disagree. I would take the Bills talent over any of those teams today.

Wanny has run the 4-3 but I doubt he is so stupid he does not know the 3-4. The Bills will run both as they did last year.

[mysticsoto]

I'm happy that we upgraded Poz.

But my opinion of Poz doesn't change the fact that the FO wanted to re-sign him and didn't. It doesn't change the fact that the FO failed to land Clabo or do anything else about the OT situation. It doesn't change the fact that we lost out on Burnett to a division rival.

And it doesn't change the original post that inspired this thread: The Redskins' past FA failures are not a legitimate excuse for this FO to not sign FA's.

You can't sign what's not available. The FO made an offer to Poz based on what they thought he was worth. They did not over pay him. And you cannot both be happy that we upgraded Poz and angry that we did. You're being hypocritical.

Clabo I explained in my last post and there was no other RT worth bringing in.

Burnett may have been next in line to come here we don't know. Much like Nick cancelled his trip to Detroit once he came here and we made him our offer - he may have done the same with Miami. Or...maybe they didn't like or want him...we don't know. Regardless, we have an upgrade to Poz - if you are indeed happy that we do - then act like it and stop whining!

[FlyingDutchman]

Yes, that's true.... I did say that, and it's perfectly consistent.

I wanted an UPGRADE for Poz.

Either sign a guy like Barnett, who is an upgrade, or get Poz out of the way and hope one of the young guys turns out to be an upgrade. The whole point was that I wasn't content with Poz.

I'm sorry that you can't handle that I wanted to upgrade an underperforming player. I'm sorry that you chant handle the fact that the FO failed to do what they said they would do.

So you wanted to sign Poz and then search? Im sorry your statements are completely ******ed and contradict each other ALL OF THE TIME. Im sorry your logic is full of crap and holes and you just like to hear yourself argue. Im sorry you cant seem to grasp simple arguments. Im sorry you cant admit when youre wrong which is a great majority of the time

[OpIv37]

You can't sign what's not available. The FO made an offer to Poz based on what they thought he was worth. They did not over pay him. And you cannot both be happy that we upgraded Poz and angry that we did. You're being hypocritical.


No, I'm not being hypocritical at all.

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz and failed to do it. My personal opinion on the Poz situation has NOTHING to do with the fact that the FO didn't do what they said they were going to do.

Just because I got the outcome I wanted doesn't get the FO off the hook for their failure.

[better days]

If Clabo values his home more than money, why was he even considering leaving? The fact that he would even listen to offers means there had to have been something that would have convinced him to go. And if there was nothing thing that would convince him to go, why was Buffalo wasting their time?

Oh, but I forgot. It's never the FO's fault.

And I'm really tired of the "well if this happened you'd be complaining just as loud" argument. No one knows how anyone else would have reacted in a hypothetical situation that never occurred. It's just a tactic to deflect attention away from the content of the post and onto the poster himself.

Well, he probably was entertaining offers from the Bills as a tool to drive up the price Atlanta was willing to pay & if the Bills made an offer he could not turn down he would have come to Buffalo.

The Bills made a great offer but Atlanta matched it so why move from home & a better team, maybe a Super Bowl team to a rebuilding team in Buffalo?

[OpIv37]

So you wanted to sign Poz and then search? Im sorry your statements are completely ******ed and contradict each other ALL OF THE TIME. Im sorry your logic is full of crap and holes and you just like to hear yourself argue. Im sorry you cant seem to grasp simple arguments. Im sorry you cant admit when youre wrong which is a great majority of the time

There is no contradiction. You just either can't read or can't comprehend.

I wanted Poz off the team because he's mediocre. Preferably, I wanted a better replacement now, but if that didn't happen, I'd be fine letting one of our young guys take the reps. I didn't trust the FO to search for an upgrade if he was still on the team. I have never once wavered or contradicted myself on that opinion in any way shape or form.

My personal opinions aside, the FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz and failed to do it. That has nothing to do with me or my opinion of Poz. They said they wanted to do it and couldn't get it done.

There is absolutely no logical fallacy or contradiction in there whatsoever. I'm sorry that you have to twist my words and mis-state my arguments so you don't have to accept the fact that the FO screwed up.

[FlyingDutchman]

There is no contradiction. You just either can't read or can't comprehend.

I wanted Poz off the team because he's mediocre. Preferably, I wanted a better replacement now, but if that didn't happen, I'd be fine letting one of our young guys take the reps. I didn't trust the FO to search for an upgrade if he was still on the team. I have never once wavered or contradicted myself on that opinion in any way shape or form.

My personal opinions aside, the FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz and failed to do it. That has nothing to do with me or my opinion of Poz. They said they wanted to do it and couldn't get it done.

There is absolutely no logical fallacy or contradiction in there whatsoever. I'm sorry that you have to twist my words and mis-state my arguments so you don't have to accept the fact that the FO screwed up.

Im sorry you fail to understand anything

[OpIv37]

Im sorry you fail to understand anything

lmao.... you lose the argument so you're trying to make it about me.

It's amazing how often that happens on this website.

[FlyingDutchman]

lmao.... you lose the argument so you're trying to make it about me.

It's amazing how often that happens on this website.

Once again. We all tried and gave it our best. Im sorry you failed to understand some pretty simple logic. Maybe we'll break it down to pretty graphs and pie charts next time to help you. This is obviously going nowhere

[mysticsoto]

No, I'm not being hypocritical at all.

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz and failed to do it. My personal opinion on the Poz situation has NOTHING to do with the fact that the FO didn't do what they said they were going to do.

Just because I got the outcome I wanted doesn't get the FO off the hook for their failure.

Ah...then let me correct your error.

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz...AT A CERTAIN PRICE. Seems to me that they followed what they wanted to do to the 'T'.

[justasportsfan]

again, then why was he even listening to Buffalo's offer? A better opportunity is a better opportunity, period.
because he thought he could get overpaid. For a few millions more he could forget what his family wants. But for the same price he decided to stay and make his family happy. If Dora had the same oppurtunity in PR, she would have stayed there. I guarantee that.

[billz83]

We did sign a FA. We replaced Poz with a more viable alternative to our scheme. Theoretically, you should be jumping for joy being that you considered Poz a liability. Instead, you are doing your perpetual whining.

The other huge position of need is RT and other than Clabo, there really isn't much out there that is much better than what we have.


there isnt much out there that is much better than what we have?!?!??! are u THAT delusional?!

[mysticsoto]

there isnt much out there that is much better than what we have?!?!??! are u THAT delusional?!
The RTs that are out there are all crap also. Why do you think none of them have been signed or even pursued much?

[justasportsfan]

I'm happy that we upgraded Poz.

But my opinion of Poz doesn't change the fact that the FO wanted to re-sign him and didn't.


thats stupid. The FO wanted to resign him at the right price and there's nothing wrong with that. What the FO failed to do was overpay him and there's nothing wrong with that.

[better days]

Ah...then let me correct your error.

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz...AT A CERTAIN PRICE. Seems to me that they followed what they wanted to do to the 'T'.

Nix said "Poz & Whitner are both very good players. If they want to come back we would be happy to have them."

In other words they are good, NOT GREAT & we will not overpay for them.

[justasportsfan]

Pessimistic and Optimistic its who the person is

Op is = pessimistic
others are = optimistic

id prefer to look at positives instead of being a miserable ass


there's nothing wrong with being pessimistic . I can see where OP is coming from. But Op finds fault in Nix not resigning Poz and would have hated it if we re-signed Poz. He's *****ing just to *****. Can't make up his mind as usual.

[justasportsfan]

Justa...you know Cris...my best friend. His wife probably makes half or so of what she could make elsewhere. He's tried to get her to leave her company for awhile but she doesn't want to. She in comfortable there with the people, the job, her seniority level, etc. For some people, that comfortableness has an intangible value that you can't just buy off.

Op is apparently incapable of understanding that...


I can totally see why. She knows what happiness is while Op is incapable of feeling that emotion. Happiness is the opposite of misery.

[OpIv37]

Ah, a new excuse to add to the list.

"They are building through the draft."
"They don't want to be the Redskins."
"There is no one available."
"No one wants to come here."
"They don't want to overpay."

Gee, it's amazing that we get any FA's to come here at all. I wonder how the rest of the league manages to overcome these problems and improve via FA....

[justasportsfan]

I wonder how the rest of the league manages to overcome these problems and improve via FA....

we've already told you. build via the draft and reinforce via FA. Stop pretending to know more than Polian.

[better days]

Ah, a new excuse to add to the list.

"They are building through the draft."
"They don't want to be the Redskins."
"There is no one available."
"No one wants to come here."
"They don't want to overpay."

Gee, it's amazing that we get any FA's to come here at all. I wonder how the rest of the league manages to overcome these problems and improve via FA....

Well, lets look at two completly different teams & see how they do it.

The Pats* have a very good team & a great owner & HC. They can therefore get FA's to come on the cheap for a chance at the golden diamond encrusted ring which they don't yet have.

The Redskins are a terrible team with an owner that does not care how much money he wastes chasing a ring because he is playing fantasy football with real players & real money. That is how he gets FA's for his team, by GROSSLY overpaying.

[OpIv37]

we've already told you. build via the draft and reinforce via FA. Stop pretending to know more than Polian.

Oh really? Who do the Jags have on their team to attract FA's? The Panthers? The Dolphins?

And btw- you just contradicted yourself. The Colts don't use FA's, remember? They build through the draft.

[better days]

Oh really? Who do the Jags have on their team to attract FA's? The Panthers? The Dolphins?

And btw- you just contradicted yourself. The Colts don't use FA's, remember? They build through the draft.

The Jags & Fins are using money & the fact Florida has no income tax. It is a cheap State to live in & since the economy crashed there are many nice houses on the beach to be had for cheap.

Similar situation in Carolina.

I think Poz went to the Jags

A) Because of the money he was paid & no local taxes on that money.

B) A 4-3 defense.

C) a HC that played LB & a guy he probably liked.

[justasportsfan]

Oh really? Who do the Jags have on their team to attract FA's? $$$$. They also attracted Trent Edwards. An FA. :snicker:


The Panthers? you're missing the big picture. They have decided to buld around a draft pick name Cam Newton . Heard of him?





The Dolphins?
don't put Miami on the same level as the Steelers, Colts , Chargers.etc.

Sparano is in the hot seat. He desperately needs someone to bail him out.



And btw- you just contradicted yourself. The Colts don't use FA's, remember? They build through the draft.
Huh? No I didn't. Did you even read my post? Once in a blue moon Polian brings in an FA. Remember I eeven mentioned Cornelius Bennett and Lofton?

He also signed Simon to the Colts at one time. So he has done FA's but make no mistake, he depends on the draft.

[OpIv37]

The Jags & Fins are using money & the fact Florida has no income tax. It is a cheap State to live in & since the economy crashed there are many nice houses on the beach to be had for cheap.

Similar situation in Carolina.

I think Poz went to the Jags

A) Because of the money he was paid & no local taxes on that money.

B) A 4-3 defense.

C) a HC that played LB & a guy he probably liked.


I'm not buying the cheap housing thing. Housing in Buffalo has always been cheap. The tax thing- maybe. NYS does rape people on taxes.

But, players don't have to maintain a permanent residency in the state where they play.

[OpIv37]

$$$$. They also attracted Trent Edwards. An FA. :snicker:

you're missing the big picture. They have decided to buld around a draft pick name Cam Newton . Heard of him?




don't put Miami on the same level as the Steelers, Colts , Chargers.etc.

Sparano is in the hot seat. He desperately needs someone to bail him out.



Huh? No I didn't. Did you even read my post? Once in a blue moon Polian brings in an FA. Remember I eeven mentioned Cornelius Bennett and Lofton?

He also signed Simon to the Colts at one time. So he has done FA's but make no mistake, he depends on the draft.
lmao- you can't honestly believe that anyone would go to Carolina because they picked Cam Newton.

[FlyingDutchman]

lmao- you can't honestly believe that anyone would go to Carolina because they picked Cam Newton.

Cam Newton aside does it really have to be drawn out why its more appealing to live and work in Charlotte as opposed to Buffalo? I know, im one of the several thousands of people who moved here from upstate new york.

With Cam in the mix, they are trying to build around him and yes that would be appealing to a FA that they are starting to build something good down here, and they are willing to shell out money to put a team together

[better days]

I'm not buying the cheap housing thing. Housing in Buffalo has always been cheap. The tax thing- maybe. NYS does rape people on taxes.

But, players don't have to maintain a permanent residency in the state where they play.

I agree houses in Buffalo are a great value. But we are talking South Beach in Miami or JVille/Daytona beach Mansions vs a nice house in OP.

I'm telling you houses down here are selling for a fraction of what they were a few years ago & if the economy ever recovers they probably will go up in value again.

California charges taxes on players that don't even live there. Florida has very liberal residency requirements. Players probably don't have to live in Florida any longer than they are here for football season to be considered a resident if they don't want to, but I know many football & hockey players that fall in love with Florida & never want to leave. Dave Andreychuk for one loves Tampa.

[justasportsfan]

lmao- you can't honestly believe that anyone would go to Carolina because they picked Cam Newton.

I was talking about them starting to build via the draft starting with Newton. BUt they were willing to pay big bucks for FA.

[FlyingDutchman]

Lets just break it down OP...Im sorry you have trouble understanding why its a tough sell to free agents to come to a team that hasnt been to the playoffs in a decade, hasnt had a winning season is almost just as long, is located in an economically stricken area with little to do for those looking for big city things, doesnt really have a core of players built, traditionally has had trouble keeping their players, the weather is cold and crappy and the team has had rumors swirling about the team moving for a long time. These are simple objections that the FO should have overcame when talking with Clabo

[justasportsfan]

watch OP start a whining thread once Whitner signs somewhere else because Nix didn't sign him to what he(Whitner) thought he was worth. Another Nix failure to overpay for a player Op didn't want anyways. lol.

[OpIv37]

Lets just break it down OP...Im sorry you have trouble understanding why its a tough sell to free agents to come to a team that hasnt been to the playoffs in a decade, hasnt had a winning season is almost just as long, is located in an economically stricken area with little to do for those looking for big city things, doesnt really have a core of players built, traditionally has had trouble keeping their players, the weather is cold and crappy and the team has had rumors swirling about the team moving for a long time. These are simple objections that the FO should have overcame when talking with Clabo

Swap "cold and crappy" for "humid and miserable," and all those things apply to Jacksonville too.

All those things apply to Minnesota, although they have fared slightly better in terms of record and making the playoffs.

Detroit, Cincy and Cleveland aren't under threat of moving, but all those other things apply as well.

Other FA's have come to Buffalo.

But all of that is irrelevant, right? It's not the FO's fault, ever, right? Guys just don't want to play here....

[FlyingDutchman]

Swap "cold and crappy" for "humid and miserable," and all those things apply to Jacksonville too.

All those things apply to Minnesota, although they have fared slightly better in terms of record and making the playoffs.

Detroit, Cincy and Cleveland aren't under threat of moving, but all those other things apply as well.

Other FA's have come to Buffalo.

But all of that is irrelevant, right? It's not the FO's fault, ever, right? Guys just don't want to play here....

OK OP will you now provide a list of solid players that have gone to these teams this year?

[OpIv37]

watch OP start a whining thread once Whitner signs somewhere else because Nix didn't sign him to what he(Whitner) thought he was worth. Another Nix failure to overpay for a player Op didn't want anyways. lol.

As far as I know, Nix didn't commit publicly to Whitner like he did to Poz.

[OpIv37]

OK OP will you now provide a list of solid players that have gone to these teams this year?

Well, for starters, Jacksonville got Poz and our FO wanted to keep him....

[FlyingDutchman]

Oh and Minnesota plays in a dome...also ask anyone who lives in that part of Florida which they prefer...the cold and cloudy upstate NY or Florida..gimme a break

[FlyingDutchman]

Well, for starters, Jacksonville got Poz and our FO wanted to keep him....

omg I knew you were gonna say that...I said solid, I thought he was below average?? anyways...keep going...

[OpIv37]

Oh and Minnesota plays in a dome...also ask anyone who lives in that part of Florida which they prefer...the cold and cloudy upstate NY or Floriday..gimme a break

And ask anyone in WNY what they'd prefer- the could and cloudy upstate NY or the heat and humidity of Florida. People are used to the place where they're from and tend to prefer it over the alternatives. The ones that don't usually move.

It'll probably be 95 degrees with ridiculous humidity and a heat index north of 100 on opening day in Jacksonville. You think any players are much happier about playing in that than they are in a little cold or snow in December? Gimme a break.

[FlyingDutchman]

And ask anyone in WNY what they'd prefer- the could and cloudy upstate NY or the heat and humidity of Florida. People are used to the place where they're from and tend to prefer it over the alternatives. The ones that don't usually move.

It'll probably be 95 degrees with ridiculous humidity and a heat index north of 100 on opening day in Jacksonville. You think any players are much happier about playing in that than they are in a little cold or snow in December? Gimme a break.

wow you will go down with every ship you sail no matter how dumb you sound huh

[OpIv37]

omg I knew you were gonna say that...I said solid, I thought he was below average?? anyways...keep going...

Well according to me he's below average.

According to you, he's solid. You argued for days that we should keep him, remember?

[mjt328]

Building strictly through the draft is good in theory. A few problems though...

1. The Bills are below average in drafting.
And before people start defending Nix/Gailey, keep in mind that not even ONE rookie made a significant impact from last year. Even Dick Jauron got good rookie performances out of guys like Marshawn Lynch and Jairus Byrd. And if Carolina or Denver had been smarter, this year's draft class wouldn't quite look the same (we might have Newton or Miller). Dareus fell in our lap.

2. The Bills are below average in re-signing their own talent.
How many veteran players have we let walk over the years when their contracts ran out - only to watch them perform well for other teams?
Poz is only the latest. Before him were guys like Pat Williams, Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Jabari Greer. And the reason Jason Peters demanded a trade was because we wouldn't pay him fair market value for a Pro Bowl left tackle.

3. The Bills are always well under the salary cap
Owners like to pretend that stupid free agent signings always damage a team for years and years. The truth is...dumb signings are easily erased. The Redskins dumped Albert Haynesworth and went back to square one. They aren't struggling to get under the salary cap.
We have a huge hole at right tackle, and could still use depth amongst the linebackers. What does it hurt to bring in some more bodies? Wouldn't it be nice to have a veteran or two when injuries start hitting us?

[OpIv37]

wow you will go down with every ship you sail no matter how dumb you sound huh

lmao- how does my opinion on other people's opinions of the weather sound any dumber than your opinion on other people's opinions of the weather?

It's hilarious that you somehow think I come off as ridiculous in these exchanges without realizing that you come off exactly the same way.

[FlyingDutchman]

Well according to me he's below average.

According to you, he's solid. You argued for days that we should keep him, remember?

still waiting on that list OP

[FlyingDutchman]

lmao- how does my opinion on other people's opinions of the weather sound any dumber than your opinion on other people's opinions of the weather?

It's hilarious that you somehow think I come off as ridiculous in these exchanges without realizing that you come off exactly the same way.

yes im sure these players who for the most part come from the south or went to southern schools and practiced all august in hot weather hate living in a warm state...theyd much rather be in butt cold temps in an area where cold wet rain and snow are the norm...what was i thinking...lol...Im from WNY and went down south to play college lacrosse bc I wanted warm weather...I played all August in that crap and it didnt bother me one bit

[OpIv37]

still waiting on that list OP

I don't follow those teams so I don't know. And I'm too lazy to look it up.

The point is that there are other cities in the NFL that have a lot of the same problems as Buffalo, and they attract FA's. In the past, Buffalo has attracted FA's.

Yet, you still refuse to hold the FO accountable for not being able to sign the guys they want.

[FlyingDutchman]

I don't follow those teams so I don't know. And I'm too lazy to look it up.

The point is that there are other cities in the NFL that have a lot of the same problems as Buffalo, and they attract FA's. In the past, Buffalo has attracted FA's.

Yet, you still refuse to hold the FO accountable for not being able to sign the guys they want.

so you and your point was wrong. just say it. I want to hear it from you even though we know it. Dont cop out here lol

[mysticsoto]

And ask anyone in WNY what they'd prefer- the could and cloudy upstate NY or the heat and humidity of Florida. People are used to the place where they're from and tend to prefer it over the alternatives. The ones that don't usually move.

It'll probably be 95 degrees with ridiculous humidity and a heat index north of 100 on opening day in Jacksonville. You think any players are much happier about playing in that than they are in a little cold or snow in December? Gimme a break.


Actually yes, b'cse as the season goes it gets more and more comfortable over there...while here it gets colder and colder. Players/people who don't know the area have a bad view of Buffalo being constant blizzards. And then it's not just living in that type of weather but also "working" in it.

It's ridiculous to think that they wouldn't prefer Jacksonville over Buffalo based on weather!!!

[HAMMER]

Not matching the ridiculous contract Poz got in Jax is clearly not a failure Op, don't be rediculous.

[FlyingDutchman]

Not matching the ridiculous contract Poz got in Jax is clearly not a failure Op, don't be rediculous.

no its a failure bc we said we would LIKE to sign him for a fair price, but then didnt sign him bc someone offered him more and he wasnt worth it...but according to OP its still a failure bc we said we would "like" to sign him...I think public school systems failed OP

[OpIv37]

so you and your point was wrong. just say it. I want to hear it from you even though we know it. Dont cop out here lol

So my point is wrong because I can't personally think of an example from the 1 week of FA we've had this year?

Hahahaha nice try.

[FlyingDutchman]

So my point is wrong because I can't personally think of an example from the 1 week of FA we've had this year?

Hahahaha nice try.

You cant think of one example of the point you tried to make...lol

denial sure is ugly

[OpIv37]

Not matching the ridiculous contract Poz got in Jax is clearly not a failure Op, don't be rediculous.

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad they didn't match the contract.

But they wanted to keep Poz and couldn't do it and wanted to land Clabo and couldn't do it. To me, those are failures. I'm happy that they failed on Poz because I was never impressed with him and disappointed that they failed on Clabo because I think he would have helped.

[OpIv37]

You cant think of one example of the point you tried to make...lol

denial sure is ugly

TO went to Cincy last year. There. One example.

Happy now?

[bf1]

Building strictly through the draft is good in theory. A few problems though...

1. The Bills are below average in drafting.
And before people start defending Nix/Gailey, keep in mind that not even ONE rookie made a significant impact from last year. Even Dick Jauron got good rookie performances out of guys like Marshawn Lynch and Jairus Byrd. And if Carolina or Denver had been smarter, this year's draft class wouldn't quite look the same (we might have Newton or Miller). Dareus fell in our lap.

2. The Bills are below average in re-signing their own talent.
How many veteran players have we let walk over the years when their contracts ran out - only to watch them perform well for other teams?
Poz is only the latest. Before him were guys like Pat Williams, Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Jabari Greer. And the reason Jason Peters demanded a trade was because we wouldn't pay him fair market value for a Pro Bowl left tackle.

3. The Bills are always well under the salary cap
Owners like to pretend that stupid free agent signings always damage a team for years and years. The truth is...dumb signings are easily erased. The Redskins dumped Albert Haynesworth and went back to square one. They aren't struggling to get under the salary cap.
We have a huge hole at right tackle, and could still use depth amongst the linebackers. What does it hurt to bring in some more bodies? Wouldn't it be nice to have a veteran or two when injuries start hitting us?

Yep.

I swear some of you are truly delusional or masochists.

[FlyingDutchman]

TO went to Cincy last year. There. One example.

Happy now?

you picked a player who was SO desperate he would take ANY team and the didnt sign him til late..lol "nice try" by ME?

hahaha...wow the desperation continutes. Good attempt though lol

[OpIv37]

you picked a player who was SO desperate he would take ANY team and the didnt sign him til late..lol "nice try" by ME?

hahaha...wow the desperation continutes. Good attempt though lol

Ok, fine.

You continue to make excuses about the weather and the economy or guys not being available or guys not wanting to come here or not signing FA's because we don't want to be the Redskins.

I'll continue to hold the FO accountable for making this team better, and that includes making it attractive to FA's. And when they fail, as they so often do, I'm going to complain about it.

[better days]

Ok, fine.



I'll continue to hold the FO accountable for making this team better, and that includes making it attractive to FA's. And when they fail, as they so often do, I'm going to complain about it.

That is the job you have carved out for yourself & I have no doubt you will continue to excel at it.

[jcdavey]

Although Turner has been big for Atl and he was a FA from SD.
though he wasn't your according to hoyle big name free agent

he wasn't even a starter........

[jcdavey]

Name the big free agents that the steelers and packers have brought in the fold in the past 3 years.

Yeah just one Charles Woodson and he was signed after he turned 30 and for a relative bargain.
he was actually a cut player from oakland

you have to remember, at the time woodson was missing alot of games due to injuries, he was the rodney harrison of cbs, an injured player who missed games, got cut, then got rejuvinated elsewhere

that wasn't a big name FA at the time, at all.....

[jcdavey]

we've already told you. build via the draft and reinforce via FA. Stop pretending to know more than Polian.
this is the winning way right there , and throw in 'smart trades'

[mysticsoto]

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad they didn't match the contract.

But they wanted to keep Poz and couldn't do it and wanted to land Clabo and couldn't do it. To me, those are failures. I'm happy that they failed on Poz because I was never impressed with him and disappointed that they failed on Clabo because I think he would have helped.
Just b'cse you keep repeating the same thing doesn't make it any more true.


Ah...then let me correct your error.

The FO said they wanted to re-sign Poz...AT A CERTAIN PRICE. Seems to me that they followed what they wanted to do to the 'T'.

LOL! Op...you are regressing in your thinking...first, Clabo is doing JUST FINE in ATL. He's not in desperate need of an "opportunity". 2nd, there are no jobs in PR, and the whole place is in a worse economic mess than the US overall. Third, you would be complaining just as loud if it had taken LT type money $10 mil a year let's say, to get him to come here. Not only that, but now the rest of the line gets upset and the huge disparate difference and may not play up to their best level b'cse they are upset.

And the same goes with Poz. You pay based on what skill level you feel you are getting. With Clabo, the offer was a very decent one. He valued his home and roots more. Period. That's an inherent quality of Clabo himself and what he values, and not a fault on the FO - like you think it is!!!

[X-Era]

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad they didn't match the contract.

But they wanted to keep Poz and couldn't do it and wanted to land Clabo and couldn't do it. To me, those are failures. I'm happy that they failed on Poz because I was never impressed with him and disappointed that they failed on Clabo because I think he would have helped.And to me, not taking that money you would have spent and re-spending it is a failure.

In chronological order of when it was reported:


7 mill per for Poz - Signed with the Jags July 26th (http://twitter.com/#%21/Jay_Glazer/statuses/96016045315325952) (9:49 pm) 7 mill not spent
Thigpen - Signed July 26th (http://twitter.com/OmarKelly/status/96050330277654528)(11:01 pm) 4 mill spent but was planned
5 mill per for Florence - Re-signed for July 27th (http://twitter.com/#%21/DraytonFlorence/statuses/96320019885068289) (5:03 pm) 5 mill spent and planned
3.75 mill per for Smith- Inked on July 28th (http://twitter.com/TheJetsStream/status/96648661529931776) (3:08 pm) Still leaves 3.25 of Poz money
5 mill per for Clabo - re-signed with the Falcons on July 28th (https://twitter.com/#%21/AdamSchefter/statuses/96743941529022466) (8:51 pm) didn't get him, add it to the 3.25 and you get 8.25 left to spend still
4 mill per for Barnett - Signed July 31st (https://twitter.com/#%21/AdamSchefter/statuses/97745692130410496) (3:12 pm) leaves 4.25 left to spend
Here's what I see. We were willing to invest 7 mill for Poz and 5 mill for Florence and that had nothing to do with any additional free agent spending. We didn't get Poz so that's 7 mill avail to spend still
Thigpen (or someone else) was getting signed anyway because we knew we were spending on a backup QB. It was planned money to spend.
Smith signed which eats into the Poz money... 3.25 still left. That's assuming that wasn't planned as an additional spend.
All of that came before Clabo chose the Falc's which means that 5 mill per of planned spending went unspent. That put us back to 8.25 mill left to spend. Again it raises the question whether we would have spent that 5 mill regardless of also spending on Barnett. But let's be cheap and assume the Barnett signing came out of the 8.25.

That still leaves us with 4.25 mill that's unspent just by what the Bills were apparently willing to spend in FA so far.

I'm fine with not landing the big splash FA if that's the way you operate. But will you at least invest a bit more or even what you had planned to back into the team? I mean if you don't want to spend 10 mill per on a big splash guy will you spend 5 mill per on two other guys? A quick look at the right side of our OL shows we could have used more help.

[mysticsoto]

X-era...what are you talking about? The Bills never offered or wanted to offer Poz $7 million dollars. The exact number wasn't released, but it was believed to be considerably less.

[X-Era]

X-era...what are you talking about? The Bills never offered or wanted to offer Poz $7 million dollars. The exact number wasn't released, but it was believed to be considerably less.That is what Howard Simon at WGR would have you believe. Many other outlets had the Bills being willing to match the offer. Nix himself said it wasn't about the money.

[mysticsoto]

That is what Howard Simon at WGR would have you believe. Many other outlets had the Bills being willing to match the offer. Nix himself said it wasn't about the money.

Saying it wasn't about the money still doesn't say that they offered him that exact amt.

[X-Era]

Saying it wasn't about the money still doesn't say that they offered him that exact amt.Those are the reports man. The fact is they have a ton of cap room still and are resting on their laurels with team needs still.

They typically underspend. This year appears to be the same.

[mysticsoto]

Those are the reports man. The fact is they have a ton of cap room still and are resting on their laurels with team needs still.

They typically underspend. This year appears to be the same.

That's not my issue with your post. My issue is stating $7 mil as though we were going to spend that on Poz.

Regardless, we got a better 3-4 player at a cheaper price. If anything, for that part, the FO should be getting praised.

[X-Era]

That's not my issue with your post. My issue is stating $7 mil as though we were going to spend that on Poz.

Regardless, we got a better 3-4 player at a cheaper price. If anything, for that part, the FO should be getting praised.You misunderstood. My issue is not whether they should have spent 7 mill on Poz... they shouldn't have. It's that they were willing to spend that money and now have pocketed some of it instead of re-investing it in the team. 23.46 mill under and a green as the hills right side of the line that could easily get destroyed by the Pats, Jets, Fins.

I was willing to play along with the Bills cheap spending methods... but now they appear to be even pocketing money they were originally willing to spend.

Add in Ralph's insistence on new revenue sharing money and it's tough to deal with Urbik and Pears as our starting right side of the line.

[better days]

You misunderstood. My issue is not whether they should have spent 7 mill on Poz... they shouldn't have. It's that they were willing to spend that money and now have pocketed some of it instead of re-investing it in the team. 23.46 mill under and a green as the hills right side of the line that could easily get destroyed by the Pats, Jets, Fins.

I was willing to play along with the Bills cheap spending methods... but now they appear to be even pocketing money they were originally willing to spend.

Add in Ralph's insistence on new revenue sharing money and it's tough to deal with Urbik and Pears as our starting right side of the line.

It is still early. Many FA's still available. I predict another signing or two before it is over & done.

[X-Era]

It is still early. Many FA's still available. I predict another signing or two before it is over & done.And if that happens, and if it's at needs and makes us more solid... I will be fine with it.

My comments are based on where we are at right now.