View Full Version : 2Types of Fans: Intelligent vs Tribal
http://youngsportswriters.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/intelligence-and-tribalism/
These 2types clash all of the time even though they support same team
Tribal:
1. Support team no matter what
2. Buy lots of merchandise
3. Hate on any detractors
4. May leave football if team moves
Intelligent
1. Are realists
2. Enjoy the dealer chess like aspects of the game: on & off field strategy
3. Instead of merchandise might have team blogs, write articles, etc...
These 2 clash the same way religion clashes with science. It's blind faith and dogma vs cold hard facts. Which are you? Most would fall in the tribal category, so next time there is an argument or difference of opinion on here,this is probably the reason!
Dr. Lecter
08-03-2011, 12:30 PM
I love artificially created stereotypes and attempts to classify people.
mayotm
08-03-2011, 12:33 PM
Don't forget the third type of fan which are douche bag trolls.
ddaryl
08-03-2011, 12:34 PM
I'm a tribelligent
psubills62
08-03-2011, 12:35 PM
http://youngsportswriters.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/intelligence-and-tribalism/
These 2types clash all of the time even though they support same team
Tribal:
1. Support team no matter what
2. Buy lots of merchandise
3. Hate on any detractors
4. May leave football if team moves
Intelligent
1. Are realists
2. Enjoy the dealer chess like aspects of the game: on & off field strategy
3. Instead of merchandise might have team blogs, write articles, etc...
These 2 clash the same way religion clashes with science. It's blind faith and dogma vs cold hard facts. Which are you? Most would fall in the tribal category, so next time there is an argument or difference of opinion on here,this is probably the reason!
Wow, you managed to misrepresent like a gazillion people with this post, in addition to creating four stereotypes that fit like three total people in the world. I love how "illiterating" you are, Mike!
TedMock
08-03-2011, 01:31 PM
There could be two very well thought out arguments for and against in ANY situation. Takes a little intelligence to understand that. Overly optimistic and overly pessimistic can be viewed as radical, depending on how much emotion goes into it. On the other hand, optimism in a bad situation is not tribalism and negativism under the same circumstances does not mean realistic. Starting a blog doesn't show more intelligence than buying a shirt. There are certainly some good blogs out there, but there are some pretty moronic blogs out there too - on both sides of the fence. One can be upbeat about a bad team and still enjoy strategy. Once can also be negative about a team and still buy season tickets. Go to the stadium on any Sunday and you'll find plenty of ultra-negative fans with season tickets.
What about the gazillion of us out there who love the team, who support the team, who actually own a few Bills t-shirts, but who are also big time into strategy, design, history, etc AND do NOT have any high hopes for the team and DO NOT have faith in Ralph? We must all be so confused.
The arguments most often aren't because one side is acting as sheep and one is being realistic. The arguments often occur because neither side is willing to look at the others' point of view and both refuse to believe that they can possibly be wrong. Also, as we've seen on both sides over the years, labeling happens. Labeling is offensive, so of course the other side gets upset. Argue intelligently and don't call people who disagree with you names. It's a lot less stressful and a lot more productive. You can still have a heated debate, but you would do so intelligently. That would be a cool change of pace around here.
I see some truth to that theory.
I notice the tribals are also the ones who love players unconditionally when they are with the team, and wish them death once they leave. ... exaggeration a little, but some truth nonetheless.
acehole
08-03-2011, 01:58 PM
Don't forget the third type of fan which are douche bag trolls.
Don't forget stalkers who don't post anything team related.
Are obsessed with making asses out of themselves.
Unknowingly project their homoerotic fantasies in their posts.
Will not answer why they are on a bills forum.
Have nothing meaningful to add to a bills forum.
I guess douche bag Troll is fine.
OpIv37
08-03-2011, 02:05 PM
While the reality of the situation is that the two types of fans described above represent a gross oversimplification, there are still a lot of fans who are very close to the "tribal" category.
And it's not just us.
One of my good friends is a Redskins fan and he goes to Skins message boards. He says even in situations where the Redskins would have to win out with 7 games left just to have an outside shot at the playoffs, people on the Skins boards are still talking playoffs and completely over-ranking players.
Most people probably aren't quite tribal enough to fall 100% into that "tribal" category, but there are a LOT of people who have a hard time being objective about their favorite team.
TedMock
08-03-2011, 02:09 PM
While the reality of the situation is that the two types of fans desribed above represents a gross oversimplification, there are still a lot of fans who are very close to the "tribal" category.
And it's not just us.
One of my good friends is a Redskins fan and he goes to Skins message boards. He says even in situations where the Redskins would have to win out with 7 games left just to have an outside shot at the playoffs, people on the Skins boards are still talking playoffs and completely over-ranking players.
Most people probably aren't quite tribal enough to fall 100% into that "tribal" category, but there are a LOT of people who have a hard time being objective about their favorite team.
Absolutely true. Radicalism is certainly part of the sports culture. A big part. As you stated, the two category thing is an oversimplification though. I hate stuff like that. I also hate the Skins.
Extremebillsfan247
08-03-2011, 02:22 PM
http://youngsportswriters.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/intelligence-and-tribalism/
These 2types clash all of the time even though they support same team
Tribal:
1. Support team no matter what
2. Buy lots of merchandise
3. Hate on any detractors
4. May leave football if team moves
Intelligent
1. Are realists
2. Enjoy the dealer chess like aspects of the game: on & off field strategy
3. Instead of merchandise might have team blogs, write articles, etc...
These 2 clash the same way religion clashes with science. It's blind faith and dogma vs cold hard facts. Which are you? Most would fall in the tribal category, so next time there is an argument or difference of opinion on here,this is probably the reason!
So, where does Whiner fit on that list? a lot of them among this fan base. Is that under intelligence? lol
OpIv37
08-03-2011, 02:24 PM
So, where does Whiner fit on that list? a lot of them among this fan base. Is that under intelligence? lol
3. Hate on any detractors
I think there is some addiction element that goes on too with the tribals. A weird sort of denial. Like they know deep down that their team sucks but refuse to admit/realize it consciously.
Extremebillsfan247
08-03-2011, 02:34 PM
3. Hate on any detractorslol You didn't answer the question
I notice the tribals will say dumb ****, like Tom Brady sucks.
Wow, you managed to misrepresent like a gazillion people with this post, in addition to creating four stereotypes that fit like three total people in the world. I love how "illiterating" you are, Mike!
Of course you don't see the value in this, your a trabalist. You support the FO no matter what they do. Your one of those Maybin supporters! All you have is excuses, rationalizations, your not ready for the reality. You call realists negative, even though they have been right for the last 10yrs! Now how's living a deluded life?
And it's not just us.
Of course not. The article was written about fans if the British soccer leagues. This extends beyond sports. Sports is just one manifestation. In a way, as humans "were not out of the woods yet" ....
justasportsfan
08-03-2011, 02:48 PM
Of course you don't see the value in this, your a trabalist. You support the FO no matter what they do. Your one of those Maybin supporters! All you have is excuses, rationalizations, your not ready for the reality. You call realists negative, even though they have been right for the last 10yrs! Now how's living a deluded life?
Is trabalist a new type of fan? :idunno:
Night Train
08-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Either way, I'm tired of Loosing.
Mr. Pink
08-03-2011, 02:51 PM
Instead of dissing the posters spelling, why not diss the point the article makes.
It's a very broad generalization but it probably fits most of us on this board and most fans of any sports team...of course there's going to be some people in the middle of it though.
psubills62
08-03-2011, 02:56 PM
Of course you don't see the value in this, your a trabalist. You support the FO no matter what they do. Your one of those Maybin supporters! All you have is excuses, rationalizations, your not ready for the reality. You call realists negative, even though they have been right for the last 10yrs! Now how's living a deluded life?
What's amusing is when people need to rationalize their arguments and inflate their self-worth simply using ad hominem attacks against other fans.
You have zero support for the claims you're making here. Let's break them down, shall we?
1) "your a trabalist" - well, maybe in your puny little mind, I might fit into that category. But if you looked at any of my posts outside of the ones in the idiotic threads you've started, you'd see that I don't fit your neat little misfit, misrepresented, and horribly stereotyped categorizations.
2) "You support the FO no matter what they do." Really? I seem to remember just making a post where I listed a number of things that they've done or haven't done that I have not agreed with. Let me know when you find my post saying I agree with everything they've done.
3) "Your one of those Maybin supporters!" Again, show me where I "supported" Maybin. The only thing I said previously was "he deserves another year" (I said that last offseason). I was baffled by the pick from the beginning. But of course, you assume I'm a Maybin supporter simply because I'm a PSU fan, isn't that right?
4) "All you have is excuses, rationalizations, your not ready for the reality. You call realists negative, even though they have been right for the last 10yrs!" No, I call negative posters negative. I call realists realists. I have the ability to differentiate between the two because they aren't the same thing, despite your wild claims that have no basis in reality.
Now I'm done feeding the troll. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to posters, logic, logical points made by posters, or rational discussions. You claim the rational high ground when your posts indicate you've got the mental development of a five year old who doesn't like it when people disagree with him. You're not worthy of the time it took to write this post, and you're not worthy of even participating in rational discussion.
Extremebillsfan247
08-03-2011, 02:58 PM
I think there is some addiction element that goes on too with the tribals. A weird sort of denial. Like they know deep down that their team sucks but refuse to admit/realize it consciously.
We are all well aware of where this team is. The difference between those of us that know it but cheer anyway, and those who always whine about it is the difference between those who know how to make sound decisions in life, and those who don't. Maturity will go a long way in helping those who can't handle it.
No one points a gun to your head to be a fan, its something you chose to do. No choice you ever make will give you the right to entitlement. This team owes you nothing. That's as real as it gets. Of course many of you wont be able to handle that fact and so will try to dismiss it. But that's o.k. lol JMO
What's amusing is when people need to rationalize their arguments and inflate their self-worth simply using ad hominem attacks against other fans.
You have zero support for the claims you're making here. Let's break them down, shall we?
1) "your a trabalist" - well, maybe in your puny little mind, I might fit into that category. But if you looked at any of my posts outside of the ones in the idiotic threads you've started, you'd see that I don't fit your neat little misfit, misrepresented, and horribly stereotyped categorizations.
2) "You support the FO no matter what they do." Really? I seem to remember just making a post where I listed a number of things that they've done or haven't done that I have not agreed with. Let me know when you find my post saying I agree with everything they've done.
3) "Your one of those Maybin supporters!" Again, show me where I "supported" Maybin. The only thing I said previously was "he deserves another year" (I said that last offseason). I was baffled by the pick from the beginning. But of course, you assume I'm a Maybin supporter simply because I'm a PSU fan, isn't that right?
4) "All you have is excuses, rationalizations, your not ready for the reality. You call realists negative, even though they have been right for the last 10yrs!" No, I call negative posters negative. I call realists realists. I have the ability to differentiate between the two because they aren't the same thing, despite your wild claims that have no basis in reality.
Now I'm done feeding the troll. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to posters, logic, logical points made by posters, or rational discussions. You claim the rational high ground when your posts indicate you've got the mental development of a five year old who doesn't like it when people disagree with him. You're not worthy of the time it took to write this post, and you're not worthy of even participating in rational discussion.
You're the quintessential tribalist.
justasportsfan
08-03-2011, 02:59 PM
Either way, I'm tired of Loosing.
no, YOUR not!
psubills62
08-03-2011, 03:01 PM
Instead of dissing the posters spelling, why not diss the point the article makes.
It's a very broad generalization but it probably fits most of us on this board and most fans of any sports team...of course there's going to be some people in the middle of it though.
Sorry, but it's a blog post that is obviously written by someone who is sick of being called negative and simply attacks everyone they construe as being too positive. It's an idiotic premise considering it's not objective at all and doesn't take into account the fact that most people, yes, most, are in between. It also doesn't even consider the fact that "intelligence," "reality," and "logic" are not even close to being claimed solely by either the positive or negative fans.
We are all well aware of where this team is. The difference between those of us that know it but cheer anyway, and those who always whine about it is the difference between those who know how to make sound decisions in life, and those who don't. Maturity will go a long way in helping those who can't handle it.
No one points a gun to your head to be a fan, its something you chose to do. No choice you ever make will give you the right to entitlement. This team owes you nothing. That's as real as it gets. Of course many of you wont be able to handle that fact and so will try to dismiss it. But that's o.k. lol JMO
Well it has more to do with the future. Like an addict who says they'll quit tomorrow. For example, tribalist ****s get bent out of shape if an intelligent fan points out that the team will continue to suck given the lack of effort in the offseason.
Extremebillsfan247
08-03-2011, 03:22 PM
Well it has more to do with the future. Like an addict who says they'll quit tomorrow. For example, tribalist ****s get bent out of shape if an intelligent fan points out that the team will continue to suck given the lack of effort in the offseason. If labeling fans is your thing, knock yourself out. What ever gives you some confidence can't be a bad thing right? lol
OpIv37
08-03-2011, 03:34 PM
We are all well aware of where this team is. The difference between those of us that know it but cheer anyway, and those who always whine about it is the difference between those who know how to make sound decisions in life, and those who don't. Maturity will go a long way in helping those who can't handle it.
No one points a gun to your head to be a fan, its something you chose to do. No choice you ever make will give you the right to entitlement. This team owes you nothing. That's as real as it gets. Of course many of you wont be able to handle that fact and so will try to dismiss it. But that's o.k. lol JMO
I don't know where to start with everything that's wrong with this post.
First, most, if not all, of the people who do what you call "whining" (but is actually acknowledging the reality of the very negative situation that this team is in) also cheer for the team. Some of us are able to make a distinction between hope and expectations. We may not expect the team to do well, but we still hope they do, and cheer just as hard as the blind homers when the games are on.
Second, the way someone feels about a football team that has underperformed for a decade has nothing to do with maturity or making sound decisions in life. Most of us are diehard fans and we get very upset when the team does poorly. It's all about the team and has nothing to do with anything else.
Third, you say the team owes us nothing. That's not entirely true. Without people like us, the team wouldn't make any money and would eventually cease to exist. We, as fans, pay for a product, and just like any other product, we have the right to demand a certain degree of quality.
The problem with people like you is that you think because football is entertainment, it always has to be positive. Well, that's not the reality. The reality is that sometimes the team is a ****ing mess. Some of us like to discuss what's ACTUALLY going on with the team, and at times like this, there will be a lot of negativity because there are a lot of negative things about the team. It may not be as pleasant, but it's far more stimulating and realistic than "WWWWWWWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! GO BILLLLLLLLSSS!!!!!"
Extremebillsfan247
08-03-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't know where to start with everything that's wrong with this post.
First, most, if not all, of the people who do what you call "whining" (but is actually acknowledging the reality of the very negative situation that this team is in) also cheer for the team. Some of us are able to make a distinction between hope and expectations. We may not expect the team to do well, but we still hope they do, and cheer just as hard as the blind homers when the games are on.
Second, the way someone feels about a football team that has underperformed for a decade has nothing to do with maturity or making sound decisions in life. Most of us are diehard fans and we get very upset when the team does poorly. It's all about the team and has nothing to do with anything else.
Third, you say the team owes us nothing. That's not entirely true. Without people like us, the team wouldn't make any money and would eventually cease to exist. We, as fans, pay for a product, and just like any other product, we have the right to demand a certain degree of quality.
The problem with people like you is that you think because football is entertainment, it always has to be positive. Well, that's not the reality. The reality is that sometimes the team is a ****ing mess. Some of us like to discuss what's ACTUALLY going on with the team, and at times like this, there will be a lot of negativity because there are a lot of negative things about the team. It may not be as pleasant, but it's far more stimulating and realistic than "WWWWWWWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! GO BILLLLLLLLSSS!!!!!" Does the NFL pay you, or do you pay them to watch? Watching is also a choice, you either choose to or not. Again, it comes down to decision making. If you don't like something that bad, common sense would tell you to choose to do, or watch, or pay for something else. Football is a spectator sport. You make of it what ever you want to make of it. If a fan chooses to be all woohoo about the Bills, the are no more right for choosing to do so than you are for not doing so regardless of reason.
better days
08-03-2011, 05:04 PM
While the reality of the situation is that the two types of fans described above represent a gross oversimplification, there are still a lot of fans who are very close to the "tribal" category.
And it's not just us.
One of my good friends is a Redskins fan and he goes to Skins message boards. He says even in situations where the Redskins would have to win out with 7 games left just to have an outside shot at the playoffs, people on the Skins boards are still talking playoffs and completely over-ranking players.
Most people probably aren't quite tribal enough to fall 100% into that "tribal" category, but there are a LOT of people who have a hard time being objective about their favorite team.
I agree that fans are fans no matter the team. Driving around last week listening to Bucs radio WDAE 620AM a Bucs fan called up saying the Bucs should sign Randy Moss. With all the great young WR's on the Bucs, this guy wants to add Moss. Thank God the show host straightened him out.
It reminded me of this board when people were advocating the Bills waste a high draft pick on a WR before the last draft.
better days
08-03-2011, 05:20 PM
I don't know where to start with everything that's wrong with this post.
First, most, if not all, of the people who do what you call "whining" (but is actually acknowledging the reality of the very negative situation that this team is in) also cheer for the team. Some of us are able to make a distinction between hope and expectations. We may not expect the team to do well, but we still hope they do, and cheer just as hard as the blind homers when the games are on.
Second, the way someone feels about a football team that has underperformed for a decade has nothing to do with maturity or making sound decisions in life. Most of us are diehard fans and we get very upset when the team does poorly. It's all about the team and has nothing to do with anything else.
Third, you say the team owes us nothing. That's not entirely true. Without people like us, the team wouldn't make any money and would eventually cease to exist. We, as fans, pay for a product, and just like any other product, we have the right to demand a certain degree of quality.
The problem with people like you is that you think because football is entertainment, it always has to be positive. Well, that's not the reality. The reality is that sometimes the team is a ****ing mess. Some of us like to discuss what's ACTUALLY going on with the team, and at times like this, there will be a lot of negativity because there are a lot of negative things about the team. It may not be as pleasant, but it's far more stimulating and realistic than "WWWWWWWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! GO BILLLLLLLLSSS!!!!!"
Your expectation is the team will lose. Where is your hope? I was as negative as any poster on this board when Jauron was HC & Trent was QB. My expectation is the team will lose. The difference between you & me is with the firing of Jauron & the hiring of Nix & Gailey, I now have hope.
X-Era
08-03-2011, 05:33 PM
This is ridiculous. I fit both of your fictitious categories in many ways.
acehole
08-03-2011, 07:33 PM
Ahh a Dualist.....burn him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is ridiculous. I fit both of our fictitious categories in many ways.
Mr. Pink
08-03-2011, 07:36 PM
Your expectation is the team will lose. Where is your hope? I was as negative as any poster on this board when Jauron was HC & Trent was QB. My expectation is the team will lose. The difference between you & me is with the firing of Jauron & the hiring of Nix & Gailey, I now have hope.
I haven't had hope since Bledsoe was jettisoned for that bum.
YardRat
08-03-2011, 07:49 PM
I transcend labels.
BillsFever21
08-03-2011, 07:52 PM
http://youngsportswriters.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/intelligence-and-tribalism/
These 2types clash all of the time even though they support same team
Tribal:
1. Support team no matter what
2. Buy lots of merchandise
3. Hate on any detractors
4. May leave football if team moves
Intelligent
1. Are realists
2. Enjoy the dealer chess like aspects of the game: on & off field strategy
3. Instead of merchandise might have team blogs, write articles, etc...
These 2 clash the same way religion clashes with science. It's blind faith and dogma vs cold hard facts. Which are you? Most would fall in the tribal category, so next time there is an argument or difference of opinion on here,this is probably the reason!
I fall inbetween both categories. I am a realist when it comes to my expectations of the team and even though they have been horrible and when I know going into the season they will be pathetic I still support the team no matter what and would never switch teams. I might not agree with the route they are going but I still support the team overall.
I also wouldn't watch as much football if the Bills ever moved out of Buffalo. I would still be a fan of the NFL but not a diehard fan anymore. I take the Bills game to heart every week but I just casually watch any other games I can but I won't alter my work or life schedule around any other games.
I don't buy a lot of merchandise anymore if any at all. Maybe a team shirt or sweatshirt when I need a new one but that's it It's not worth spending hundreds of dollars on a new jersey on a regular basis when the players are usually gone a few years later anyway.
I had season tickets and didn't miss a single game for about 10 years straight including preseason up to a few years ago but now I just go at least one game a year and maybe a second game depending on the matchup and how we are doing. I won't waste 100+ dollars to go see us play the Bengals in December when we're 3-8 anymore like I used to.
I would fall under #1 and #4 with the Tribal section and casually with #2. On the Intelligent part I would fall under number #1 and #2 and casually with #3. I casually get into the heated debates but not like I used too years ago. There are better things to do then fight day after day about the same thing with people who fall under the #3 of the Tribal section.
OpIv37
08-03-2011, 08:51 PM
Does the NFL pay you, or do you pay them to watch? Watching is also a choice, you either choose to or not. Again, it comes down to decision making. If you don't like something that bad, common sense would tell you to choose to do, or watch, or pay for something else. Football is a spectator sport. You make of it what ever you want to make of it. If a fan chooses to be all woohoo about the Bills, the are no more right for choosing to do so than you are for not doing so regardless of reason.
There's no common sense in being a fan at all.
Most of us like the team that we like because they were the closest team geographically to where we grew up, or because our parents like them. And we continue to like the team no matter how bad they are. Where's the common sense in that?
However, if someone stops watching the games because the team is bad, then they are NOT a fan. They are a bandwagon jumper, which is the lowest of the low amongst sports fans.
And if someone chooses to be more "all woohoo" about the Bills than I am, then I am more right than them. You know why? Because at the end of the day, the Bills suck on the field for all the reasons why I'm not "all woohoo" about them.
And you do NOT make whatever you want of it. It's all about results on the field. When there are no results, it's stupid to be "all woohoo" about the team.
The difference between me and people like you is that you have to convince yourself that the team is good to keep paying attention and rooting for them. I can accept the reality that the team is bad and continue to root for them anyway, because that's what a fan does- regardless of the lack of common sense behind it.
better days
08-03-2011, 09:00 PM
There's no common sense in being a fan at all.
Most of us like the team that we like because they were the closest team geographically to where we grew up, or because our parents like them. And we continue to like the team no matter how bad they are. Where's the common sense in that?
However, if someone stops watching the games because the team is bad, then they are NOT a fan. They are a bandwagon jumper, which is the lowest of the low amongst sports fans.
And if someone chooses to be more "all woohoo" about the Bills than I am, then I am more right than them. You know why? Because at the end of the day, the Bills suck on the field for all the reasons why I'm not "all woohoo" about them.
And you do NOT make whatever you want of it. It's all about results on the field. When there are no results, it's stupid to be "all woohoo" about the team.
The difference between me and people like you is that you have to convince yourself that the team is good to keep paying attention and rooting for them. I can accept the reality that the team is bad and continue to root for them anyway, because that's what a fan does- regardless of the lack of common sense behind it.
You may be right about the Bills lack of ability to win Games, but if you watch a game expecting them to lose you will enjoy it much less than I do because I watch every game with no expectations.
OpIv37
08-03-2011, 09:31 PM
You may be right about the Bills lack of ability to win Games, but if you watch a game expecting them to lose you will enjoy it much less than I do because I watch every game with no expectations.
I don't know how any rational person can watch a game without an expectation. If we play the Patriots, I expect to lose. If we play the Bengals, I expect to win. Anyone with any knowledge of the game expects the most likely outcome. But again, there's a difference between hope and expectations. If I play the lottery, I don't expect to win, but I hope I do. It's the same thing with watching the Bills. Against most teams, I don't expect them to win, but as a fan, I always hope they do.
better days
08-03-2011, 10:07 PM
I don't know how any rational person can watch a game without an expectation. If we play the Patriots, I expect to lose. If we play the Bengals, I expect to win. Anyone with any knowledge of the game expects the most likely outcome. But again, there's a difference between hope and expectations. If I play the lottery, I don't expect to win, but I hope I do. It's the same thing with watching the Bills. Against most teams, I don't expect them to win, but as a fan, I always hope they do.
You are backtracking. You said yourself there is no common sense being a fan. So explain to me how a person without common sense is supposed to be rational.
I can watch the Bills play the Pats* without any expectation because of the fact that on any given Sunday..........
TigerJ
08-03-2011, 10:29 PM
There are two kinds of people. Smart ones like me, and everybody else.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 05:58 AM
You are backtracking. You said yourself there is no common sense being a fan. So explain to me how a person without common sense is supposed to be rational.
I can watch the Bills play the Pats* without any expectation because of the fact that on any given Sunday..........
Having an expectation of the outcome of a game is not dependent on being a fan of either team.
If I watch the Patriots play the Dolphins, I hate both teams but I expect the Patriots to win.
X-Era
08-04-2011, 06:12 AM
There are two kinds. Regular sneetches and star bellied sneetches.
The Dallas Cowboys are star bellied sneetches.
better days
08-04-2011, 07:52 AM
Having an expectation of the outcome of a game is not dependent on being a fan of either team.
If I watch the Patriots play the Dolphins, I hate both teams but I expect the Patriots to win.
I never said having an expectation is dependent of being a fan of a team.
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 07:56 AM
There's no common sense in being a fan at all.
Most of us like the team that we like because they were the closest team geographically to where we grew up, or because our parents like them. And we continue to like the team no matter how bad they are. Where's the common sense in that?
However, if someone stops watching the games because the team is bad, then they are NOT a fan. They are a bandwagon jumper, which is the lowest of the low amongst sports fans.
And if someone chooses to be more "all woohoo" about the Bills than I am, then I am more right than them. You know why? Because at the end of the day, the Bills suck on the field for all the reasons why I'm not "all woohoo" about them.
And you do NOT make whatever you want of it. It's all about results on the field. When there are no results, it's stupid to be "all woohoo" about the team.
The difference between me and people like you is that you have to convince yourself that the team is good to keep paying attention and rooting for them. I can accept the reality that the team is bad and continue to root for them anyway, because that's what a fan does- regardless of the lack of common sense behind it.
My point is the fact that your bad experience with this team is no ones fault but your own. You make of it what you choose to. You can try to slice it any way you want. Trying to bring others down because your fan experience is different is wrong. JMO
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 09:05 AM
My point is the fact that your bad experience with this team is no ones fault but your own. You make of it what you choose to. You can try to slice it any way you want. Trying to bring others down because your fan experience is different is wrong. JMO
So it's my fault that the Bills lose? I'm not bringing anyone down- I'm just trying to get people to acknowledge reality so we can have a legitimate discussion about the team instead of arguing about "homers" vs "realists" all the time. It's not my fault if reality sucks and some people are trying to avoid it.
The only way any fan can have a good experience with a losing team is if they make it about something other than winning. And it's all about winning. Period.
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 09:08 AM
So it's my fault that the Bills lose?
The only way any fan can have a good experience with a losing team is if they make it about something other than winning. And it's all about winning. Period. It's not your fault that the Bills lose, it is your fault by how you choose to deal with it.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 09:10 AM
It's not your fault that the Bills lose, it is your fault by how you choose to deal with it.
no, it's really not.
By definition, a fan wants the team to win. Anyone who claims to be a fan but doesn't care when the team loses is full of ****.
The tribal ****s are showing their true colors in this thread.
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 09:21 AM
no, it's really not.
By definition, a fan wants the team to win. Anyone who claims to be a fan but doesn't care when the team loses is full of ****.Of course we care when the team loses. Show me a fan that doesn't. How we choose to handle it is on us and not the team though. Not everyone is going to deal with a loss by their favorite team the same way that you will. Expecting that is not only impractical, its illogical to even think that would be even remotely possible. So to get upset because other fans don't see things your way just doesn't make sense, especially on a message board. JMO
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Instead of dissing the posters spelling, why not diss the point the article makes.
It's a very broad generalization but it probably fits most of us on this board and most fans of any sports team...of course there's going to be some people in the middle of it though.
Kicking a team as hard as you can when it's down doesn't qualify as intelligence in my opinion, just mean and obnoxious. Being a fan isn't about blind loyalty but it is about loyalty. It never ceases to amaze me that people that care enough to hang out on a message board all day get off on pulling off the band aid on people over and over.
The Bills aren't very good. We get it. We can still care. We can still root. And we can still hope. That's tribal in the same way you look at the warts on a family member and instead of ripping him/her to shreds every day you look for solutions, you look to support when you can. But it's not delusional either.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Of course we care when the team loses. Show me a fan that doesn't. How we choose to handle it is on us and not the team though. Not everyone is going to deal with a loss by their favorite team the same way that you will. Expecting that is not only impractical, its illogical to even think that would be even remotely possible. So to get upset because other fans don't see things your way just doesn't make sense, especially on a message board. JMO
when did this conversation switch to how I deal with a loss vs how someone else does?
The point is that fans want the team to win. Some fans want the team to win so bad that they put on rose-colored glasses, can't effectively evaluate players, and get agitated when someone points out all the flaws in the team. Other fans still want the team to win, but when the team is bad, they understand the reality of that situation and aren't adverse to discussing it.
And when people are unable to accept reality, it makes it very difficult to have a legitimate conversation about the team without going down these rabbit holes all the time.
RoscoeMagic
08-04-2011, 09:38 AM
Root for your team. Don't root against your team. Simple really.
You can buy as much apparel as you want, you can start as many blogs as you want. You might know only four players on the roster, you might not know what a blitz is, or might also be able to name the entire roster and practice squad and know zone blocking schemes. Congratu****inglations on both accounts. Doesn't make you more of a fan, doesn't make you less of a fan. If you love the team, root for the team, hate its rivals. Hey...that's good enough for me.
You're a fan? Just root for your team every week. Enough with this overcomplicated jargon. Optimism, pessimism, realism, tribalism...whatever. Just enjoy the game, pull for the W, and drop the preconceived notions. It's much better than way.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 09:39 AM
Kicking a team as hard as you can when it's down doesn't qualify as intelligence in my opinion, just mean and obnoxious. Being a fan isn't about blind loyalty but it is about loyalty. It never ceases to amaze me that people that care enough to hang out on a message board all day get off on pulling off the band aid on people over and over.
The Bills aren't very good. We get it. We can still care. We can still root. And we can still hope. That's tribal in the same way you look at the warts on a family member and instead of ripping him/her to shreds every day you look for solutions, you look to support when you can. But it's not delusional either.
Here's the problem: No one on this message board "pulls off the band aid."
The team continuously fails, and past failures keep coming up because they keep coming back to haunt the team on the field. This message board is here to discuss the team, and when the team is this bad, it's impossible to discuss the team realistically without bringing these things up. It's the TEAM's fault, not the fault of any poster on this board. Don't shoot the messenger.
And sometimes it is delusional. When people are talking about a 10 win season or Poz being a top linebacker or Lee Evans being a top WR, then it's delusional.
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 09:46 AM
when did this conversation switch to how I deal with a loss vs how someone else does?
The point is that fans want the team to win. Some fans want the team to win so bad that they put on rose-colored glasses, can't effectively evaluate players, and get agitated when someone points out all the flaws in the team. Other fans still want the team to win, but when the team is bad, they understand the reality of that situation and aren't adverse to discussing it.
And when people are unable to accept reality, it makes it very difficult to have a legitimate conversation about the team without going down these rabbit holes all the time. So, then go bury your head in the dirt until the team starts winning if it bothers you. lol What do you want? A hug? a pat on the back or something? Letting little things like that get to you is childs play, grown ups deal with it, and move on.
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 09:51 AM
Here's the problem: No one on this message board "pulls off the band aid."
The team continuously fails, and past failures keep coming up because they keep coming back to haunt the team on the field. This message board is here to discuss the team, and when the team is this bad, it's impossible to discuss the team realistically without bringing these things up. It's the TEAM's fault, not the fault of any poster on this board. Don't shoot the messenger.
And sometimes it is delusional. When people are talking about a 10 win season or Poz being a top linebacker or Lee Evans being a top WR, then it's delusional.
There is no problem discussing the team's shortcomings of which there are many. But when I talk about "pulling off the band aid" I'm talking about things like:
1) blaming the current coaches/gm for stuff that did not happen on their watch
2) taking a "this approach might have worked some where else but it will never work here because it's Buffalo" attitude.
3) Never ever giving the team the benefit of any doubt because, after all, we suck.
There is in fact a difference between intelligent conversation and whining and/or just piling on.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:01 AM
So, then go bury your head in the dirt until the team starts winning if it bothers you. lol What do you want? A hug? a pat on the back or something? Letting little things like that get to you is childs play, grown ups deal with it, and move on.
I want to be able to have a conversation about the team on this board without people getting angry because my posts ruin their homer delusions. That's it.
And how do you know what I let bother me and what I don't?
I love it how people think they can take message board posts about a bad football team and extrapolate that to someone's entire outlook on life.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:06 AM
There is no problem discussing the team's shortcomings of which there are many. But when I talk about "pulling off the band aid" I'm talking about things like:
1) blaming the current coaches/gm for stuff that did not happen on their watch
2) taking a "this approach might have worked some where else but it will never work here because it's Buffalo" attitude.
3) Never ever giving the team the benefit of any doubt because, after all, we suck.
There is in fact a difference between intelligent conversation and whining and/or just piling on.
1) Who did this? Where? I see people complaining that people do this a lot, but I never actually see it being done.
2) I agree with you here.
3) The benefit of the doubt has to be earned. If there is a case where the team has consistently done something well, and someone is still *****ing that the team will screw it up before it happens, then I'd agree with you. But there are a lot of cases where the team has done the same things poorly, over and over again, and in those cases, I can't blame anyone for not giving the benefit of the doubt.
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 10:16 AM
I want to be able to have a conversation about the team on this board without people getting angry because my posts ruin their homer delusions. That's it.
And how do you know what I let bother me and what I don't?
I love it how people think they can take message board posts about a bad football team and extrapolate that to someone's entire outlook on life.So I suppose what your posting here is just simple gibberish. But sitting here reading this is funny to me. Lets reflect on this post just for a moment. Quote "I want to be able to have a conversation about the team on this board without people getting angry", your question: "And how do you know what I let bother me and what I don't?" And my answer, for the same reason that you presume people are getting angry about what ever you post. I find it hard to believe that you could quite possibly be the only intuitive poster on this board. :roflmao:
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:31 AM
So I suppose what your posting here is just simple gibberish. But sitting here reading this is funny to me. Lets reflect on this post just for a moment. Quote "I want to be able to have a conversation about the team on this board without people getting angry", your question: "And how do you know what I let bother me and what I don't?" And my answer, for the same reason that you presume people are getting angry about what ever you post. I find it hard to believe that you could quite possibly be the only intuitive poster on this board. :roflmao:
huh?
When people are upset about something I post, they make it very clear that they're upset about it in their responses.
You're talking about "letting little things" bother me and maturity and decisions in life and things that have nothing to do with football or the posts in question.
It's apples to oranges.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 10:35 AM
I want to be able to have a conversation about the team on this board without people getting angry because my posts ruin their homer delusions. That's it.
with all due respect it goes both ways. You get pissed off when someone post something positive even when they are not talking sb. You have been known to piss on peoples parade . When someone says "I'm excited" you get all bent out of shape.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 10:35 AM
The third type is people who take age-old debates and put new terms on them.
with all due respect it goes both ways. You get pissed off when someone post something positive even when they are not talking sb. You have been known to piss on people parade . When someone says "I'm excited" you get all bent out of shape.
Well a parade needs to be pissed on if it's excitement about signing UDFAs.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 10:41 AM
So it's my fault that the Bills lose? I'm not bringing anyone down- I'm just trying to get people to acknowledge reality so we can have a legitimate discussion about the team instead of arguing about "homers" vs "realists" all the time. It's not my fault if reality sucks and some people are trying to avoid it.
The only way any fan can have a good experience with a losing team is if they make it about something other than winning. And it's all about winning. Period.
No its just to most people the Bills and football is something to enjoy and be happy about in general. Not taken so seriously. You get all pissy at people who dont look at this like life and death and simply just enjoy the Bills for whatever reason. You try to bring them to your pissy level. Its not reality, its a pissing match. Some people just dont want to do that and you slam your opinion down their throat and tell them theyre living in delusional world when they are simplying enjoying the bills for recreational purposes. Misery loves company
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:44 AM
with all due respect it goes both ways. You get pissed off when someone post something positive even when they are not talking sb. You have been known to piss on people parade . When someone says "I'm excited" you get all bent out of shape.
I don't get pissed when someone posts something positive.
I get pissed when someone posts something positive with nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking to back it up.
I get all bent out of shape when people say "I'm excited" because the reasons why they are excited completely ignore the reality of the team at the moment.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 10:47 AM
I don't get pissed when someone posts something positive.
I get pissed when someone posts something positive with nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking to back it up.
I get all bent out of shape when people say "I'm excited" because the reasons why they are excited completely ignore the reality of the team at the moment.
yes you do. When someone says, "I'm excited about the new season "you say "how can you when we will suck? ".
Extremebillsfan247
08-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Taking shots at other fans by labeling, or trying to classify them is just low in my opinion. It's meant at being nothing more than a cheap shot at those that don't share your opinion. We all pull for the same team. However, how I choose to do that is my business. If labeling people is your thing, that's fine.
But remember this, other than the fact that we all come here to share thoughts, and opinions about the Bills, I don't know, or care about a single soul here personally, so I could care less about what you think of me. Fans don't come here to post or play by your rules and standards. No one that comes here owes you a damn thing. So if that's the kind of thing that floats your boat, by all means, go ahead. I'm done. lol Next topic...
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:49 AM
No its just to most people the Bills and football is something to enjoy and be happy about in general. Not taken so seriously. You get all pissy at people who dont look at this like life and death and simply just enjoy the Bills for whatever reason. You try to bring them to your pissy level. Its not reality, its a pissing match. Some people just dont want to do that and you slam your opinion down their throat and tell them theyre living in delusional world when they are simplying enjoying the bills for recreational purposes. Misery loves company
It has nothing to do with misery loving company.
It has to do with my opinion being based in reality and their opinion being based on the"fact" that they simply want to enjoy Bills football.
Just because someone wants to enjoy something doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable.
Sometimes you watch an episode of your favorite show and it sucks, sometimes you go to a restaurant and the food isn't that good and sometimes football teams suck. That's life. Deal with it.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 10:51 AM
yes you do. When someone says, "I'm excited about the new season "you say "how can you when we will suck? ".
And then I state the reasons why the team sucks.
To which they respond with a bunch of complaints about me being negative and a "whiner" rather than actually addressing my points, because they generally can't.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 10:52 AM
It has nothing to do with misery loving company.
It has to do with my opinion being based in reality and their opinion being based on the"fact" that they simply want to enjoy Bills football.
Just because someone wants to enjoy something doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable.
Sometimes you watch an episode of your favorite show and it sucks, sometimes you go to a restaurant and the food isn't that good and sometimes football teams suck. That's life. Deal with it.
I dont understand half of this drivel. Who the hell are you to keep going at these people and decide what makes their OPINION wrong or to tell them why they shouldnt enjoy this...its a flipping sport. Not everyone is so serious. Do you really think theres ANY fans that arent aware that we suck? Why do you always feel the need to interject and twist the knife?
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 10:59 AM
And then I state the reasons why the team sucks.
To which they respond with a bunch of complaints about me being negative and a "whiner" rather than actually addressing my points, because they generally can't.
no. You don't get bent out of shape because we are going to suck you get bent out of shape because someone is excited about a NEW season whether we suck or not.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Just because someone wants to enjoy something doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable.
It may not be enjoyable to you but it may be enjoyable to them which gets you all bent out of shape and causes you to piss on their enjoyment.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 11:02 AM
I dont understand half of this dribble. Who the hell are you to keep going at these people and decide what makes their OPINION wrong or to tell them why they shouldnt enjoy this...its a flipping sport. Not everyone is so serious. Do you really think theres ANY fans that arent aware that we suck?
"Recreational" fans who are not "serious" should stay out of serious discussions of the team, then. For their own sake as well as ours.
I have no problem with such fans ( I call them cheerleaders ), but they don't mix with objective fans who aren't afraid to tell it like it is.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 11:06 AM
what the hell does this even mean
that means he's the judge of what is enjoyable and what isn't regardless of what others say or feel.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
"Recreational" fans who are not "serious" should stay out of serious discussions of the team, then. For their own sake as well as ours.
I have no problem with such fans ( I call them cheerleaders ), but they don't mix with objective fans who aren't afraid to tell it like it is.
So the average fan isnt welcome here? You have to be superfan to be part of this message board? I get what youre saying but it seems kinda ridiculous. Telling it like it is, is one thing. But constantly raming an opinion and interjecting on someone bc they find something to be positive about is not needed. We get OPs opinion. We got it a long time ago. Now he just comes across to many as an annoying little piss ant bc all he does is *****. I know we suck. Im real about our teams situation. Hell most of the time I post I make jokes about how bad we suck. I see the positive posts and I dont feel the need to constantly bring these people down by reminding them how bad we suck, they already know.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 11:15 AM
So the average fan isnt welcome here? You have to be superfan to be part of this message board? I get what youre saying but it seems kinda ridiculous. Telling it like it is, is one thing. But constantly raming an opinion and interjecting on someone bc they find something to be positive about is not needed. We get OPs opinion. We got it a long time ago. Now he just comes across to many as an annoying little piss ant bc all he does is *****. I know we suck. Im real about our teams situation. Hell most of the time I post I make jokes about how bad we suck. I see the positive posts and I dont feel the need to constantly bring these people down by reminding them how bad we suck, they already know.
posters like Jan Reimers who is a bigger homer than I am shouldn't be allowed to post.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 11:15 AM
Just because someone wants to enjoy something doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable.
.
what the hell does this even mean
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 11:57 AM
1) Who did this? Where? I see people complaining that people do this a lot, but I never actually see it being done.
If you haven't seen this you're really not paying attention. People like to try to hang Nix and Gailey for the bad free agents or drafts of regimes past, just lump it all together and the excuse for dumping is always "we haven't made the playoffs in over a decade so why aren't 35 issues fixed in a week"
3) The benefit of the doubt has to be earned. If there is a case where the team has consistently done something well, and someone is still *****ing that the team will screw it up before it happens, then I'd agree with you. But there are a lot of cases where the team has done the same things poorly, over and over again, and in those cases, I can't blame anyone for not giving the benefit of the doubt.
In your opinion it has to be earned. Some of us have a very different prospective on that basic point in terms of the team and dare I say, life. I don't mind if you want to always be a glass is half empty guy, that 's your decision. But here's the thing: you do blame others that want to give the team the benefit of the doubt. In fact it drives you crazy. Justa is correct. It's never enough for you to state your opinions. You have to be the skunk at the lawn party. That gets old.
better days
08-04-2011, 12:04 PM
"Recreational" fans who are not "serious" should stay out of serious discussions of the team, then. For their own sake as well as ours.
I have no problem with such fans ( I call them cheerleaders ), but they don't mix with objective fans who aren't afraid to tell it like it is.
Well, when the Bills do win, I don't need someone telling me they were "lucky" or "they didn't win, the other team lost" or "they should not have won" or "9 times out of 10 they will lose to that team"
There are "objective" fans & there are NEGATIVE fans that can't even enjoy a win & don't want others to enjoy it either.
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 12:05 PM
"Recreational" fans who are not "serious" should stay out of serious discussions of the team, then. For their own sake as well as ours.
I have no problem with such fans ( I call them cheerleaders ), but they don't mix with objective fans who aren't afraid to tell it like it is.
:roflmao:
I've got news for you buddy, we're all recreational fans. None of us do this as a job. Leaving optimism/pessimism out of it I haven't noticed anything special about the quality of any of the posters on this board's thoughts, we're all interested, we all have opinions and a good deal of what we all say is wrong and not really that well informed if you really want to be honest about it. The folks that don't get that have an inflated opinion of themselves IMO.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 12:07 PM
If the "non-serious" want to enter serious discussions, then they have to tolerate the serious fans and not whine about the whining
better days
08-04-2011, 12:13 PM
If the "non-serious" want to enter serious discussions, then they have to tolerate the serious fans and not whine about the whining
So negative=serious? HARDLY. negative=negative, nothing more. If you want to whine, expect whining about your whining.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 12:20 PM
I dont understand half of this dribble. Who the hell are you to keep going at these people and decide what makes their OPINION wrong or to tell them why they shouldnt enjoy this...its a flipping sport. Not everyone is so serious. Do you really think theres ANY fans that arent aware that we suck? Why do you always feel the need to interject and twist the knife?
First, it's "drivel."
Second, where did you get this drivel that all opinions are equally valid? Some opinions are supported by fact and reasoning, others, not so much.
And third, I do think there are fans who are not aware that we suck, or at least they choose to ignore that fact when they post. I feel the need to discuss the team, which is why I'm on this board. If that means pointing out the reality to a poster who refuses to acknowledge it, so what?
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 12:23 PM
no. You don't get bent out of shape because we are going to suck you get bent out of shape because someone is excited about a NEW season whether we suck or not.
I never said anything like that. You are simply speculating on my motives because you don't have a legitimate response to my comments.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Mikey's had season tickets for years now and when he doesn't oversleep, he's usually as camp trying to get info and making reports with pictures and posting them here on BZ.
He will also drive all the way to buffalo to hang out with fellow posters here on BZ for a luch gathering.
He will take pictures on gameday and take the time to share it to us here on BZ.
However, since Mikey is more positive than most posters here bordering on homerism, he's not a "serious" fan and shouldn't get involved in football talk.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:25 PM
I never said anything like that. You are simply speculating on my motives because you don't have a legitimate response to my comments.
oh no. You have said several times how you couldn't understand how people can be excited for a new season even though the season isn't looking good. I'd love to look at past posts but don't feel like it right now.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 12:27 PM
no. You don't get bent out of shape because we are going to suck you get bent out of shape because someone is excited about a NEW season whether we suck or not.
And one more thing about this:
Every time I've criticized someone for being excited about the new season, the team ended up sucking. So, I was right and they were excited about nothing. Yet, you're criticizing me? Give me a ****ing break.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:36 PM
And one more thing about this:
Every time I've criticized someone for being excited about the new season, the team ended up sucking. So, I was right and they were excited about nothing. Yet, you're criticizing me? Give me a ****ing break.
this is what I mean, I don't think we're going to the playoffs but I'm excited about the NEW season but you're going to tell me I'm crazy for getting excited .
If I enjoy dating blondes, you don't go around telling me I am really not enjoying it just because you don't like blondes. THats stupid.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 12:40 PM
First, it's "drivel."
Second, where did you get this drivel that all opinions are equally valid? Some opinions are supported by fact and reasoning, others, not so much.
And third, I do think there are fans who are not aware that we suck, or at least they choose to ignore that fact when they post. I feel the need to discuss the team, which is why I'm on this board. If that means pointing out the reality to a poster who refuses to acknowledge it, so what?
dude you have issues and theres no point in arguing bc we're just going to go around in circles...say what you want from here but ive done this too many times to argue and go down this path with you bc its pointless. Youre too stubborn and narrow minded to ever see the other side so whats the point. Have fun in your miserable little world
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 12:41 PM
this is what I mean, I don't think we're going to the playoffs but I'm excited about the NEW season but you're going to tell me I'm crazy for getting excited .
If I enjoy dating blondes, you don't go around telling me I am really not enjoying it just because you don't like blondes. THats stupid.
justa dont waste your time man...dude is dense and pissed off at the world
Would you tribal ****s shut up already.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:42 PM
justa dont waste your time man...dude is dense and pissed off at the world
yeah, but it's fun to see him miserable when others are enjoying themselves. :snicker:
better days
08-04-2011, 12:42 PM
First, it's "drivel."
Second, where did you get this drivel that all opinions are equally valid? Some opinions are supported by fact and reasoning, others, not so much.
And third, I do think there are fans who are not aware that we suck, or at least they choose to ignore that fact when they post. I feel the need to discuss the team, which is why I'm on this board. If that means pointing out the reality to a poster who refuses to acknowledge it, so what?
An opinion is just that. It is not a fact, it is a belief.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:43 PM
Would you tribal ****s shut up already.
whats that asterisks say?
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 12:45 PM
An opinion is just that. It is not a fact, it is a belief.
are you sure nobody should validate your opinion?
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:47 PM
F#cks
I thought you were a born again Christian , have renewed faith or something.
I thought you were a born again Christian , have renewed faith or something.
Yeah, so. Tribal fans aren't in the Bible.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:49 PM
Yeah, so. Tribal fans aren't in the Bible.
think about that the next time you go to church. You should gargle with holy water next time.
think about that the next time you go to church. You should gargle with holy water next time.
Don't get all tribal on me. Relax.
better days
08-04-2011, 12:53 PM
Yeah, so. Tribal fans aren't in the Bible.
Well, there is plenty in the bible about how to treat your fellow man & calling fans that root for the same team you do FU#KS is against everything the bible says about that.
You do have a point there, my tribal brother.
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 12:55 PM
First, it's "drivel."
Now there's a post I can agree with.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:57 PM
Don't get all tribal on me. Relax.
I am relaxed. You should go to confession.
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Typical tribal answer.
I forgive you. Go forth and sin no more.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 01:10 PM
:roflmao:
I've got news for you buddy, we're all recreational fans. None of us do this as a job. Leaving optimism/pessimism out of it I haven't noticed anything special about the quality of any of the posters on this board's thoughts, we're all interested, we all have opinions and a good deal of what we all say is wrong and not really that well informed if you really want to be honest about it. The folks that don't get that have an inflated opinion of themselves IMO.
Recreational is dutchman's term, so it's news to him.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 01:12 PM
So negative=serious? HARDLY. negative=negative, nothing more. If you want to whine, expect whining about your whining.
Im fine with it. Im way more tolerant of cheerleaders than they are of me.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 01:18 PM
Recreational is dutchman's term, so it's news to him.
huh? youre the one putting people into classes saying there are some people who are more serious about this than others and shouldnt interact with those who are more serious...not everyone spends 90% of their time keeping tabs on a loser football team and takes it so flipping serious. And they shouldnt have to "tolerate" miserable pissy people shooting down their opinions as wrong. It just makes this site a more miserable place to come to
Philagape
08-04-2011, 01:27 PM
huh? youre the one putting people into classes saying there are some people who are more serious about this than others and shouldnt interact with those who are more serious...not everyone spends 90% of their time keeping tabs on a loser football team and takes it so flipping serious. And they shouldnt have to "tolerate" miserable pissy people shooting down their opinions as wrong. It just makes this site a more miserable place to come to
If you want to talk on a forum, then yes you do have to tolerate it. Or be miserable. Your choice.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 01:36 PM
whatever you say man. 60% of this board is annoyed or cant stand OP, while nobody seems to have a problem with anyone else (realist or not)...are that many people that over sensative or do you think there might be a pattern of weirdo annoying behavior with him
Philagape
08-04-2011, 01:41 PM
whatever you say man. 60% of this board is annoyed or cant stand OP, while nobody seems to have a problem with anyone else (realist or not)...are that many people that over sensative or do you think there might be a pattern of weirdo annoying behavior with him
Whether he's right or wrong is irrelevant. He's not going anywhere so you have to accept it if you come here.
Or just be annoyed. Which I don't get anyway. I don't care about anyone's opinion enough for it to have an emotional effect on me.
FlyingDutchman
08-04-2011, 01:46 PM
Whether he's right or wrong is irrelevant. He's not going anywhere so you have to accept it if you come here.
Or just be annoyed. Which I don't get anyway. I don't care about anyone's opinion enough for it to have an emotional effect on me.
it doesnt have an emotional effect on me...its just annoying to have a pissy anal retentive dude constantly putting his two cents in as somehow more valuable than others and isnt tolerant of others himself, and will never admit when hes wrong which is most of the time
Bill Cody
08-04-2011, 01:56 PM
Im fine with it. Im way more tolerant of cheerleaders than they are of me.
"Recreational" fans who are not "serious" should stay out of serious discussions of the team, then. For their own sake as well as ours.
I have no problem with such fans ( I call them cheerleaders ), but they don't mix with objective fans who aren't afraid to tell it like it is.
I see what you mean.<!-- / message -->
better days
08-04-2011, 05:19 PM
I forgive you. Go forth and sin no more.
What??? No penance??
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 07:10 PM
huh? youre the one putting people into classes saying there are some people who are more serious about this than others and shouldnt interact with those who are more serious...not everyone spends 90% of their time keeping tabs on a loser football team and takes it so flipping serious. And they shouldnt have to "tolerate" miserable pissy people shooting down their opinions as wrong. It just makes this site a more miserable place to come to
When their opinions are wrong and not grounded in reality, they absolutely SHOULD have to tolerate people shooting them down.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 07:15 PM
it doesnt have an emotional effect on me...its just annoying to have a pissy anal retentive dude constantly putting his two cents in as somehow more valuable than others and isnt tolerant of others himself, and will never admit when hes wrong which is most of the time
Lmao. I'm wrong most of the time? So the Bills don't suck?
Please- I've been right more than almost anyone on this board. And the worst part is that I don't have any superior football intelligence or anything, yet you people insist on arguing with me anyway, at least until the games starbucks and reality hits them in the face.
And do you realize the hypocrisy of complaining that I don't tolerate other people's opinions when you spend pages arguing with everything I say?
justasportsfan
08-04-2011, 07:15 PM
What??? No penance??
I'm a nice guy.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 07:45 PM
whatever you say man. 60% of this board is annoyed or cant stand OP, while nobody seems to have a problem with anyone else (realist or not)...are that many people that over sensative or do you think there might be a pattern of weirdo annoying behavior with him
really? 60% of the board can't stand me? I'd love to know how you arrived that that number.
And I'd love to know why you care. You can't stand me and you make it your mission to shoot down and argue with everything I say, which is fine by me, but it's obsessive behavior.
You say I have a pattern of "annoying weirdo behavior." but every time I exhibit that alleged behavior, you are right there to respond by behaving in the exact same way. Stop and think about that for a minute.
You do all the same things that you complain about me doing in your interaction with me. I know in your mind you're the martyr standing up for the downtrodden "recreational fans" but the reality is that no one on this board is as affected by what I say as you are. You need to let it go.
mayotm
08-04-2011, 07:47 PM
really? 60% of the board can't stand me? I'd love to know how you arrived that that number.
And I'd love to know why you care. You can't stand me and you make it your mission to shoot down and argue with everything I say, which is fine by me, but it's obsessive behavior.
You say I have a pattern of "annoying weirdo behavior." but every time I exhibit that alleged behavior, you are right there to respond by behaving in the exact same way. Stop and think about that for a minute.
You do all the same things that you complain about me doing in your interaction with me. I know in your mind you're the martyr standing up for the downtrodden "recreational fans" but the reality is that no one on this board is as affected by what I say as you are. You need to let it go.You're right OP. It's more like 75%.
OpIv37
08-04-2011, 07:54 PM
You're right OP. It's more like 75%.
that's it? I was going for at least 90%.
Philagape
08-04-2011, 09:13 PM
it doesnt have an emotional effect on me...its just annoying
That's a hall of fame post :up:
Philagape
08-04-2011, 11:10 PM
I see what you mean.<!-- / message -->
Good, then you read the part about me not having a problem with it :up:
I was just trying to save some grief for those who, because of their intolerance, find this place miserable and get annoyed (both their words)
Demon
08-04-2011, 11:36 PM
whatever you say man. 60% of this board is annoyed or cant stand OP, while nobody seems to have a problem with anyone else (realist or not)...are that many people that over sensative or do you think there might be a pattern of weirdo annoying behavior with him
How many people can't stand OP, idk, i'm not one of them, i actually think his posts are refreshing. However, what most people i am sure cant stand is baseless comments like "60%" of people. Dude, how did you come up with that number besides picking it out of your own ass? You saw three members comment on his posts and decided to post "60%"? That's just dumb.
Where i was sitting tonight at camp, was a father, son and mom right below me. From one of the tents in the back, played Bon Jovi's "livin on a prayer" song, the dad, who was decked out in a Bills jersey, as was his son, says "this song fits perfectly with our team, we're living on a prayer".... idk if this dude was a "intelligent" or "tribal" fan, but, things right now are BAD and the people who just want to focus on the positives just can't grasp reality. I'd suggest reading buffalobills.com or Bills digest for biased and propagandaic views on the Bills. I'm glad on a forum like this, we can still discuss the realities of the team, both positive and negative. And right now, there is just much more negative then positive.
THATHURMANATOR
08-04-2011, 11:44 PM
This thread again. So lame. Mike have an original thought please!!
FlyingDutchman
08-05-2011, 08:05 AM
OP im not going down this road with you again but id 1. yes youre wrong a majority of the time, youre just too stubborn to realize it. 2. No kidding i pulled 60% out of my a$$ you geniuses. No I actually did a scientific poll, thats how I arrived at that number...wow nothing gets by you guys. In all seriousness its probably more. You guys dont see the messages and pos rep from annoyed people I get, just saying. Glad you think his anal retentive, redundant ways are refreshing. To a majority hes an annoying little piss ant. OP you had NO prior football knowledge? GET THE EFF OUT OF TOWN!! I couldnt tell. lol. And for the record, I think we suck too and acknowledge our problems all the time. Im just not a whiny little ***** about and I dont dwell or go after other people who just want to discuss things to be positive about. Its not about the team, its about the bizarre social behavior of you. Im guessing you dont get out much
TigerJ
08-05-2011, 10:35 AM
Taking this thread seriously for a moment, I think that fans really run the gamut. Looking at myself, I'm definitely not "tribal." I have one player jersey from a player who is no longer with the Bills. It was a gift. I also have one autograph from a former Bill. My daughter got it for me from Jim Kelly at a Hunter's Hope fundraiser. I have been to about 6 Bills games over the 40+ years I've been a fan. Even if I had a job that would allow me to attend 1 PM Bills games, I probably would not be a season ticket holder.
I normally describe myself as a realistic optimist. I can see the possibilities for upside in players and situations, but I recognize that possibilities are not guarantees, and after all is said and done, the Bills may still suck.
Looking at the 2011 Bills, I think that some areas where they struggled in 2010 may be improved:
The offensive line, which started the putrid Cornell Green at right tackle and suffered through multiple injuries in 2010, at least starts the season healthy Bell should experience at least continued modest development. Wood, who started 2010 in recovery mode from injury, should be much better, and playing his best position. The Bills should be able to find a serviceable right guard from among Urbik, Hangartner, Rinehart, Wrotto etc. And Eric Pears is an improvement over Green until Hairston is able to step in (with Wang and Howard as emergency fill-ins.
Jackson remains a quality RB, though he's starting to get a bit long in the tooth. Spiller has had a year to work on his deficiencies and may be much improved, (no guarantee) and White might be one of the better #3 backs we've had in a while.
Shawn Nelson has visited a specialist to get his migraine issues addressed and might be ready to finally blossom. Scott Chandler has at least a few Pete Metzelaars-like qualities that will let him have a bigger roll this season.
Fitzpatrick may, with an improved running game and better blocking, may cut down on costly interceptions and improve his completion percentage.
The defensive line should be much improved with the addition of Dareus and the continued development of Carrington and Troup. Kyle Williams still has some good years left in him.
Linebacking should be better too. Merriman may stay healthy, and has shown more than just glimpses of his former greatness in camp so far. Barnett is better than Poz in the 3-4 if he can stay healthy. Moats is going to get on the field in some capacity, and he tends to make plays. Batten, Sheppard, and White all improve depth and may be future starters.
Finally the secondary was strengthened with the addition of Williams and Searcy. McGee starts the year healthy at least, and Rogers was a good late draft pick.
Thus, there are lots of maybes and possibilities. It's also possible none of the maybes will pan out and the Bills will suck even worse than last season. I don't think all possibilities will be fulfilled by any means. Reality suggests some will and some won't. Perhaps enough will pan out to allow at least a modest improvement in the win-loss record this season. That's what I'm hoping for.
I am not bothered either by the wild optimists or the doom and gloom realists because I have a little of each in me.
better days
08-05-2011, 10:48 AM
Taking this thread seriously for a moment, I think that fans really run the gamut. Looking at myself, I'm definitely not "tribal." I have one player jersey from a player who is no longer with the Bills. It was a gift. I also have one autograph from a former Bill. My daughter got it for me from Jim Kelly at a Hunter's Hope fundraiser. I have been to about 6 Bills games over the 40+ years I've been a fan. Even if I had a job that would allow me to attend 1 PM Bills games, I probably would not be a season ticket holder.
I normally describe myself as a realistic optimist. I can see the possibilities for upside in players and situations, but I recognize that possibilities are not guarantees, and after all is said and done, the Bills may still suck.
Looking at the 2011 Bills, I think that some areas where they struggled in 2010 may be improved:
The offensive line, which started the putrid Cornell Green at right tackle and suffered through multiple injuries in 2010, at least starts the season healthy Bell should experience at least continued modest development. Wood, who started 2010 in recovery mode from injury, should be much better, and playing his best position. The Bills should be able to find a serviceable right guard from among Urbik, Hangartner, Rinehart, Wrotto etc. And Eric Pears is an improvement over Green until Hairston is able to step in (with Wang and Howard as emergency fill-ins.
Jackson remains a quality RB, though he's starting to get a bit long in the tooth. Spiller has had a year to work on his deficiencies and may be much improved, (no guarantee) and White might be one of the better #3 backs we've had in a while.
Shawn Nelson has visited a specialist to get his migraine issues addressed and might be ready to finally blossom. Scott Chandler has at least a few Pete Metzelaars-like qualities that will let him have a bigger roll this season.
Fitzpatrick may, with an improved running game and better blocking, may cut down on costly interceptions and improve his completion percentage.
The defensive line should be much improved with the addition of Dareus and the continued development of Carrington and Troup. Kyle Williams still has some good years left in him.
Linebacking should be better too. Merriman may stay healthy, and has shown more than just glimpses of his former greatness in camp so far. Barnett is better than Poz in the 3-4 if he can stay healthy. Moats is going to get on the field in some capacity, and he tends to make plays. Batten, Sheppard, and White all improve depth and may be future starters.
Finally the secondary was strengthened with the addition of Williams and Searcy. McGee starts the year healthy at least, and Rogers was a good late draft pick.
Thus, there are lots of maybes and possibilities. It's also possible none of the maybes will pan out and the Bills will suck even worse than last season. I don't think all possibilities will be fulfilled by any means. Reality suggests some will and some won't. Perhaps enough will pan out to allow at least a modest improvement in the win-loss record this season. That's what I'm hoping for.
I am not bothered either by the wild optimists or the doom and gloom realists because I have a little of each in me.
Great Post. I feel the same way you do & would identify myself the same as you. I think a good many people on this board would as well.
And do you realize the hypocrisy of complaining that I don't tolerate other people's opinions when you spend pages arguing with everything I say?
Thats what it means to be tribal!
The point was to show how the 2 types of Fans Clash which has happened on this very post. It also goes to show the power of trablism and that against all odds and evidence how some humans can still believe that the world is the center of the universe until 1996 and how other fanatics can billieve.
Mr. Pink
08-05-2011, 12:46 PM
There was 2 type of fans on this board not long ago...that people on this board deemed them to be. One was Negative Nancies and I forgot what the other side was branded.
I find it funny that people in the past who had no problem branding sides of the fanbase now have a problem with someone else doing it.
Mad Bomber
08-05-2011, 02:15 PM
Taking this thread seriously for a moment, I think that fans really run the gamut. Looking at myself, I'm definitely not "tribal." I have one player jersey from a player who is no longer with the Bills. It was a gift. I also have one autograph from a former Bill. My daughter got it for me from Jim Kelly at a Hunter's Hope fundraiser. I have been to about 6 Bills games over the 40+ years I've been a fan. Even if I had a job that would allow me to attend 1 PM Bills games, I probably would not be a season ticket holder.
I normally describe myself as a realistic optimist. I can see the possibilities for upside in players and situations, but I recognize that possibilities are not guarantees, and after all is said and done, the Bills may still suck.
Looking at the 2011 Bills, I think that some areas where they struggled in 2010 may be improved:
The offensive line, which started the putrid Cornell Green at right tackle and suffered through multiple injuries in 2010, at least starts the season healthy Bell should experience at least continued modest development. Wood, who started 2010 in recovery mode from injury, should be much better, and playing his best position. The Bills should be able to find a serviceable right guard from among Urbik, Hangartner, Rinehart, Wrotto etc. And Eric Pears is an improvement over Green until Hairston is able to step in (with Wang and Howard as emergency fill-ins.
Jackson remains a quality RB, though he's starting to get a bit long in the tooth. Spiller has had a year to work on his deficiencies and may be much improved, (no guarantee) and White might be one of the better #3 backs we've had in a while.
Shawn Nelson has visited a specialist to get his migraine issues addressed and might be ready to finally blossom. Scott Chandler has at least a few Pete Metzelaars-like qualities that will let him have a bigger roll this season.
Fitzpatrick may, with an improved running game and better blocking, may cut down on costly interceptions and improve his completion percentage.
The defensive line should be much improved with the addition of Dareus and the continued development of Carrington and Troup. Kyle Williams still has some good years left in him.
Linebacking should be better too. Merriman may stay healthy, and has shown more than just glimpses of his former greatness in camp so far. Barnett is better than Poz in the 3-4 if he can stay healthy. Moats is going to get on the field in some capacity, and he tends to make plays. Batten, Sheppard, and White all improve depth and may be future starters.
Finally the secondary was strengthened with the addition of Williams and Searcy. McGee starts the year healthy at least, and Rogers was a good late draft pick.
Thus, there are lots of maybes and possibilities. It's also possible none of the maybes will pan out and the Bills will suck even worse than last season. I don't think all possibilities will be fulfilled by any means. Reality suggests some will and some won't. Perhaps enough will pan out to allow at least a modest improvement in the win-loss record this season. That's what I'm hoping for.
I am not bothered either by the wild optimists or the doom and gloom realists because I have a little of each in me. :bf1:
Outstanding post. It goes to show the ridiculous nature of trying to force fans into one of two narrow stereotypical categories. TigerJ makes lucid, logical points that are well thought out and "realistic" (Unlike the the premise in the original post in this thread, "realist"="negative").
A lot of people have bashed Op in this thread. I have met him multiple times and talked to him multiple times on the phone, so I know him better than most of you on this board. Let me clarify something...what I see in his posts is a pessimism based on past performance. Bryan, correct me if I'm wrong here, but his main point has always been: show me some RESULTS...I'll Billieve that we are going in the right direction when we show that we are moving in the right direction after a decade of spinning our wheels.
I am like Jan Reimers in that I am an eternal optimist. I have been a fan of this team for 47 years, and have had my heart broken more times than you can imagine. But I am a realist. I know that this FO has been possibly the worst in football over the last decade, but am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the current regime. The team showed glimmers of hope last year (at least offensively) and the FO has made legitimate moves to try to improve our putrid defense this past off season. Again, I'm going to reserve judgment until I see actual RESULTS. Until then, I am cautiously optimistic.
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