*Rumor* Bills in conversation with Houston regarding trade for a TE

[ddaryl]

This RUMOR is coming from a fan at the buffalobills.com forums

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=359498

Basically he said local Houston Sports radio (Radio "1560 the Game") is talking about a Bills Texans trade

They have a few TE's and need to shave some salary to get under the cap from what i understand.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/2011_salary_cap_figure_houston_texans_sit_at_1184_million/5589304

texas is a little over $118 mil

They have Daniels, Casey, Dreessen, Hill, and Grant
the only one that I would assume would really help them shave salary is Daniels who would be a heluva catch.. He counts $6.5 mil this year

Dreessen costs a little over $900K this year...

http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries

[jcdavey]

isn't boss still a FA?

why not just get him

unless he's injured, boss was a BOSS in ny

[Mr. Pink]

:rofl:

I would literally laugh if we traded for Daniels. Just because it would be absolutely hysterical to me to see how people will react when he ends up with like 30 catches for the year at 6.5 million.

[psubills62]

It came from bb.com? I'll believe it when the TE shows up in camp then.

[ddaryl]

It came from bb.com? I'll believe it when the TE shows up in camp then.

I fully agree.. hence the big *RUMOR* in the title

but knowing most everyone wants a TE upgrade and a major cut down day coming this could have some merit

Thought it would at least be of interest to share here... Regardless it will be equally interesting to see if the Texans cut a TE if no trade is made

[psubills62]

I fully agree.. hence the big *RUMOR* in the title

but knowing most everyone wants a TE upgrade and a major cut down day coming this could have some merit

Thought it would at least be of interest to share here... Regardless it will be equally interesting to see if the Texans cut a TE if no trade is made
Those first three guys are essentially just H-backs anyway. Probably would be used more as receivers than true TE's.

[ddaryl]

Looks like Houston is 8.5 million over the cap according to this report

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/03/as-of-tuesday-seven-teams-were-over-the-cap/



http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/03/te-daniels-signs-new-deal-with-texans

Daniels signed a new contract in March.....
four-year extension $22 million.. which is actually quite affordable for guy like Daniels IMO

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Looks like Houston is 8.5 million over the cap according to this report

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/03/as-of-tuesday-seven-teams-were-over-the-cap/



http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/03/te-daniels-signs-new-deal-with-texans

Daniels signed a new contract in March.....
four-year extension $22 million.. which is actually quite affordable for guy like Daniels IMO
The offense's version of Chris Kelsay by the looks of it.

[psubills62]

The offense's version of Chris Kelsay by the looks of it.
Owen Daniels? His only negative would be injuries. If he's healthy...the guy's got serious talent. Completely unlike Chris Kelsay, who has serious non-talent and never gets injured.

[Crisis]

:rofl:

I would literally laugh if we traded for Daniels. Just because it would be absolutely hysterical to me to see how people will react when he ends up with like 30 catches for the year at 6.5 million.

Who cares how much people make? It's not like we're right up against the cap.

6.5 isn't terrible for Daniels, especially not for a team like us.

[ddaryl]

The offense's version of Chris Kelsay by the looks of it.

are you serious ????



Who cares how much people make? It's not like we're right up against the cap.

6.5 isn't terrible for Daniels, especially not for a team like us.


$22 for 4 years isn't a bad deal at all...

[The King]

I think Casey is the guy they'd want... he's as balanced as can be.

[Mr. Pink]

Who cares how much people make? It's not like we're right up against the cap.

6.5 isn't terrible for Daniels, especially not for a team like us.


It's a waste of money for a guy who'd serve little to no purpose in the offense.

You don't spend just to spend, you spend to get better.

Getting a 6.5 million dollar guy when he doesn't fit into the offensive style Gailey employs would not only be foolish but outright stupid.

[ddaryl]

not much buzz outside of BB.com on this one.. You would have ot think if it was local radio the texan forums would be lighting up some

[Ickybaluky]

Why would Houston sign Daniels to a 4-year extension for big money and then trade him? Don't tell me the cap, because bonus acceleration on the trade would kill the savings.

Houston can easily maneuver under the cap. They just have to cut a couple guys or re-work a couple contracts.

[Crisis]

It's a waste of money for a guy who'd serve little to no purpose in the offense.

You don't spend just to spend, you spend to get better.

Getting a 6.5 million dollar guy when he doesn't fit into the offensive style Gailey employs would not only be foolish but outright stupid.

So Owen Daniels wouldn't be an upgrade over the crap we have at TE right now? ok...

[ddaryl]

Why would Houston sign Daniels to a 4-year extension for big money and then trade him? Don't tell me the cap, because bonus acceleration on the trade would kill the savings.

Houston can easily maneuver under the cap. They just have to cut a couple guys or re-work a couple contracts.

well his salary for 2011 is 6.5 million on a 4 year 22 mil deal

I doubt the bonus on his extension would cancel out the 6.5 mil IMO. That 1st year salary is high and front loaded

http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/3/3/2027535/texans-agree-to-new-contract-with-owen-daniels



UPDATE: Per Schefter (http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/43368371789643777), the deal is 4 years $22 Million.
UPDATE 2: Per Adam Caplan of FOX Sports, $14 Million of it will be paid the first two seasons.
UPDATE 3: reporting the deal has $6 Million guaranteed.

[FlyingDutchman]

I dont see the point in spending money like that (assuming Daniels) for a guy who would not only not be a focal point, but would rarely be used in this offense. Sure it would be an upgrade but I just dont see the point

[camelcowboy]

It's a waste of money for a guy who'd serve little to no purpose in the offense.

You don't spend just to spend, you spend to get better.

Getting a 6.5 million dollar guy when he doesn't fit into the offensive style Gailey employs would not only be foolish but outright stupid.BS they would use a pro bowl tight end if they had one

[BuffaloBlitz83]

It's a waste of money for a guy who'd serve little to no purpose in the offense.

You don't spend just to spend, you spend to get better.

Getting a 6.5 million dollar guy when he doesn't fit into the offensive style Gailey employs would not only be foolish but outright stupid.

Hey genius,

Why would Buffalo be interested in trading to attain a TE like Daniels at 6.5 Million if he will not be used much? I'm sure Gailey and Nix would speak before a trade is agreed upon or finalized. They would not make this type of trade without plans to utilize him. Get real broski. You are hell bent in proving your dumb Anti TE/ Gailey philosophy. Daniels would be the second best Tight end Gailey had after Gonzo. And gonzo had a big year.

[madness]

If he came to Buffalo, Gailey would use him.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

If he came to Buffalo, Gailey would use him.

Exactly. Why the bloody hell else would they attain a guy like him and at that price.

[Mr. Pink]

So Owen Daniels wouldn't be an upgrade over the crap we have at TE right now? ok...


I don't understand why people don't get this...

Chan Gailey doesn't really use Tight Ends in his offense. It's not his MO.

Chan throughout his career as an OC/HC his tight ends literally average about 30 catches a year with Gonzalez as a huge outlier Gaileys only full year in KC.

What does it matter who your tight end is when you don't use em?

If you throw the ball to David Martin/Shawn Nelson 30 times in a year vs throwing the ball to Owen Daniels 30 times a year what do you gain? Maybe a TD? Maybe 2?

Less than a point a game, on average, is worth spending 6.5 million?

[Mr. Pink]

Hey genius,

Why would Buffalo be interested in trading to attain a TE like Daniels at 6.5 Million if he will not be used much? I'm sure Gailey and Nix would speak before a trade is agreed upon or finalized. They would not make this type of trade without plans to utilize him. Get real broski. You are hell bent in proving your dumb Anti TE/ Gailey philosophy. Daniels would be the second best Tight end Gailey had after Gonzo. And gonzo had a big year.


And Gonzo a. is a huge outlier in Gaileys history and b. Gonzo was split out a lot.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Much rather get a guard or RT.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't understand why people don't get this...

Chan Gailey doesn't really use Tight Ends in his offense. It's not his MO.



gailey sure as **** used tony gonzales in kansas city, so to say that he wouldn't use a pro-bowl tight end is stupid. he probably doesn't use the tight ends he currently has because they flat out suck.

[Mr. Pink]

gailey sure as **** use tony gonzales in kansas city, so to say that he wouldn't use a tight end is stupid. he probably doesn't use the tight ends he has currently because they flat out suck.

Way to go. You use the exception to try and prove the rule.

Chan Gailey was Shannon Sharpes' OC for one year too...Sharpe caught 7 passes.

Go take a look over Gaileys stops...Denver, Pittsburgh, Dallas and see what tight ends do when Gailey runs the offense. Then get back to me on Gaileys use of tight ends over his coaching career.

[THATHURMANATOR]

YaY is correct. Owen Daniels doesn't really blow me away post Knee injury anyways.

[Crisis]

Way to go. You use the exception to try and prove the rule.

Chan Gailey was Shannon Sharpes' OC for one year too...Sharpe caught 7 passes.

Go take a look over Gaileys stops...Denver, Pittsburgh, Dallas and see what tight ends do when Gailey runs the offense. Then get back to me on Gaileys use of tight ends over his coaching career.

So Shannon Sharpe's rookie year is a more of the rule then? he caught 7 passes under gailey in two starts, and caught 22 without gailey the next year in nine starts.

I'm not the biggest Gailey fan, but he wouldn't go out of his way to acquire a 6.5 million TE and then not use him at all. He'll adjust the offense to the talent around him, like he did with Thigpen in KC.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I wont be pissed if they get Daniels! It isn't my money in the end!

[Mr. Pink]

So Shannon Sharpe's rookie year is a more of the rule then? he caught 7 passes under gailey in two starts, and caught 22 without gailey the next year in nine starts.

I'm not the biggest Gailey fan, but he wouldn't go out of his way to acquire a 6.5 million TE and then not use him at all. He'll adjust the offense to the talent around him, like he did with Thigpen in KC.

David Martin 2008 Dolphins 31 catches in 7 starts
Davis Martin 2010 Bills 7 catches in 9 starts

Clarence Kay 1988 Broncos 38 catches in 14 starts
Clarence Kay 1989 Broncos 21 catches in 16 starts

Mark Bruener 1995 Steelers 26 catches in 13 starts
Mark Bruener 1996 Steelers 12 catches in 12 starts

Troy Drayton 1999 Dolphins starting TE 32 catches in 13 starts
Hunter Goodwin 2000 Dolphins starting TE 6 catches in 16 starts

Notice a pattern with what happens to tight ends or the position or just player when Gailey takes over a team either as the HC or the OC?

[wmoz11]

All I notice is a bunch of crappy TEs that didn't deserve to be thrown the ball.

Now, I don't think we NEED an expensive pass-catching TE, but if we got one Gailey would find a way to use him.

[Crisis]

David Martin 2008 Dolphins 31 catches in 7 starts
Davis Martin 2010 Bills 7 catches in 9 starts

Clarence Kay 1988 Broncos 38 catches in 14 starts
Clarence Kay 1989 Broncos 21 catches in 16 starts

Mark Bruener 1995 Steelers 26 catches in 13 starts
Mark Bruener 1996 Steelers 12 catches in 12 starts

Troy Drayton 1999 Dolphins starting TE 32 catches in 13 starts
Hunter Goodwin 2000 Dolphins starting TE 6 catches in 16 starts

Notice a pattern with what happens to tight ends or the position or just player when Gailey takes over a team either as the HC or the OC?

So the only correlation I see is that with crappy tight ends, Gailey doesn't use them much... but when he has someone like Tony Gonzo, they're productive in his offense.

Silly Gailey for not tailoring his offenses around Clarence Kay and Mark Bruener.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Nice cast of Tightends you listed. Daniels is betterthan every single one. My point is simple. If buffalo went out of its way to land a guy like him and at his salary, what in the hell do you think their plans are? To use him duh

[Mr. Pink]

So the only correlation I see is that with crappy tight ends, Gailey doesn't use them much... but when he has someone like Tony Gonzo, they're productive in his offense.

Silly Gailey for not tailoring his offenses around Clarence Kay and Mark Bruener.


:rofl:

Clarence Kay was the Broncos second leading receiver in 1987. 2 years later Gailey reduced him to nothing.

[Crisis]

:rofl:

Clarence Kay was the Broncos second leading receiver in 1987. 2 years later Gailey reduced him to nothing.

Yes Gailey reduced him from a 30 catch TE to a 20 catch TE in two years.

[Mr. Pink]

Oh yeah, about Gonzo...

He demanded a trade out of KC while Gailey was still employed as their OC.

[Crisis]

Oh yeah, about Gonzo...

He demanded a trade out of KC while Gailey was still employed as their OC.

Yeah I'm sure that had everything to do with gailey and not playing for a 2-14 team with herm edwards as your coach.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes Gailey reduced him from a 30 catch TE to a 20 catch TE in two years.


He reduced him from the 2nd leading receiver to 6th in 2 years...when you go from 2nd to 6th you become pretty irrelevant.

And we all know John Elway wasn't shy about throwing to tight ends over his career so where does the blame lie?

The system.

[cpearl]

Do you guys remember when and where Daniels first got hurt? You got it! Buffalo. He was lighting up the league until that injury and doesn't seem to be the same since. Dressen got a lot more looks last year.

That being said, if Daniels is healthy, he is a VERY good TE.

[Crisis]

He reduced him from the 2nd leading receiver to 6th in 2 years...when you go from 2nd to 6th you become pretty irrelevant.

And we all know John Elway wasn't shy about throwing to tight ends over his career so where does the blame lie?

The system.

I can't believe you're trying to use a 10 reception drop from Clarence Kay over two years as the basis for your argument. Really??? Not to mention he had a career year in terms of receptions under Gailey.

[mikemac2001]

daniels was down because he wasnt healthy

and chan doesn't use te's but i feel if he had a talented TE he would....

bottom line who loses a spot on the field


Evans/Johnson Easley/Nelson Roscoe/ Brad smith


i know bottom line gives us more options and thats never a bad thing

but i like nelson in that hybrid

[Crisis]

I'd be more worried if Gailey was making guys like Mark Bruener the focal points of his offenses.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

I can't believe you're trying to use a 10 reception drop from Clarence Kay over two years as the basis for your argument. Really??? Not to mention he had a career year in terms of receptions under Gailey.

LOL

And he used Shannon Sharpe's rookie year. He was drafted as a 7th rounder. He was not a starter that year.

[Mr. Pink]

But you guys using Gonzo to prove your point?

I've proved that every tight end that Gailey has had EVER has suffered a drop in numbers, even Gonzo did.

So who had a career year under Gailey?

[Crisis]

But you guys using Gonzo to prove your point?

I've proved that every tight end that Gailey has had EVER has suffered a drop in numbers, even Gonzo did.

So who had a career year under Gailey?

Mark Bruener in 1995 (in yards + rec)

Clarence Kay sent a career high in receptions with Gailey in one of those years.

Hunter Goodwin's 8 receptions in 1999 is actually a career high, which was under Gailey. I guess that goes to show the kind of talent he had at TE.

Are you really trying to nitpick a bunch of numbers of bad to average TEs?

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Mark Bruener in 1995 (in yards + rec)

Clarence Kay sent a career high in receptions with Gailey in one of those years.

Hunter Goodwin's 8 receptions in 1999 is actually a career high, which was under Gailey. I guess that goes to show the kind of talent he had at TE.

Are you really trying to nitpick a bunch of numbers of bad to average TEs?

:bf1:

[THRILLHO]

Why would we trade for Daniels when we could have signed Zach Miller?

Id love either guy, but that just doesnt make sense. Doesnt make sense for the Texans either who just resigned him. They are trying to make a playoff push and he is one of their best offensive pieces.

Its fun to think about, but makes no sense for either team.

[Tatonka]

Why would we trade for Daniels when we could have signed Zach Miller?

Id love either guy, but that just doesnt make sense. Doesnt make sense for the Texans either who just resigned him. They are trying to make a playoff push and he is one of their best offensive pieces.

Its fun to think about, but makes no sense for either team.

because zach miller got about 10 millon more?

[Mr. Pink]

Mark Bruener in 1995 (in yards + rec)

Clarence Kay sent a career high in receptions with Gailey in one of those years.

Hunter Goodwin's 8 receptions in 1999 is actually a career high, which was under Gailey. I guess that goes to show the kind of talent he had at TE.

Are you really trying to nitpick a bunch of numbers of bad to average TEs?


You're flat out wrong on Kay. I showed his numbers the year before Gailey took over as OC and the year he did.

Goodwin had his best year when Gailey was still the Dallas HC.

And in 1995 Gailey was not the Steelers OC

So you didn't even get one thing right on your post, that was thanked on top of it.

:rofl:

[Crisis]

You're right, I read your post wrong.

Doesn't change the fact that you're still nitpicking over 10 receptions from mediocre tight ends.

[alohabillsfan]

rofl, lets g=have the debate after something actually happens! On a side note, we dont need a 50 catch a season TE we need a redzone threat.

[Mr. Pink]

You're right, I read your post wrong.

Doesn't change the fact that you're still nitpicking over 10 receptions from mediocre tight ends.


Clarence Kay was not mediocre...the dude was a beast. Tight Ends and their production was much different back in 1987 then it is today.

Ozzie Newsome, widely regarded as one of the top TEs in the NFL ever had 4 more catches than Kay did between 87 and 88 for some perspective.

Jay Novacek had 4 more catches than Kay did in 88.

Or are you gonna say Novacek and Newsome were mediocre tight ends too?

The fact remains Gailey turned Kay, an upper echelon tight end before he took over the OC job, into a complete nonfactor in the offense.

[Goobylal]

But you guys using Gonzo to prove your point?

I've proved that every tight end that Gailey has had EVER has suffered a drop in numbers, even Gonzo did.

So who had a career year under Gailey?
Sorry but Gonzo had his 3rd best season in receptions, 4th best season in yards, and 2nd best season in TD's with Gailey (2008). It was inarguably his best season.

[elltrain22]

If we actually got an established tight end, I might think that things might get better alot quicker. Its been so long since this team had a credible TE, it would make me think its back to the 90s when we actually had good TE's. Make it happen!!

[mrbojanglezs]

this is not a rumor its a fib

[Luisito23]

People are getting worked up over nothing, because those dummies at BB are always coming up with some dumb rumors.

[jimbohastle51]

casey is a young 3rd TE SLASH currently WAS there starting FB till today when vickers from CLE signed with them. if they trade a mid-late or say a corner named CORNER (since he is not a press coverage guy at all but a nice zone nickle corner) for casey they could cut mcintyre and insert casey which would mean we carry david martin and shawn nelson as the only "TE's" on the roster which would mean casey can play fullback when or if we ever need one which will be few and far between with a spread SLASH pistol SLASH shotgun formation and can go in motion for the I formation to cause mismatchs. and the best part Chan "SLASH happy" Gailey i am sure loves is that while only carrying technically 2 TE's on the roster once again as he did with brad smith being the 3rd (yeah right, he will never start a game all the way through at the QB position) so he can carry an extra young talented reciever or LB on the roster he can do the same now that casey would open yet again another roster spot for another player. and seriously guys from evans, johnson, parrish, nelson, easly, jones, roosevelt.. non of the are getting cut or put on the practice squad BC anyone of them would be picked up imediately unless the are injured. and the bills know that even roosevelt will not make it the season on the practice squad again, he will get signed to a 53 man roster by week 3 of the regular season once injuries to 53 man rosters start piling up.

[psubills62]

With all this talk about reality lately, let's go ahead and inject some.

It appears to me that from his record as an OC, as a HC, etc., with all the stats people have put up, that 1) Gailey doesn't value a TE much in his system, especially when they stink, 2) Gailey doesn't tend to put a value on obtaining a good TE either, 3) if he has a TE that has great receiving skills, he'll use him.

That's what I get out of all of that. FTY can dismiss Gonzo as an outlier all he wants, but there's always something to be learned from the data. Can't just dismiss what you don't like. That being said, considering #2, I don't see a trade happening, especially for Daniels, and I don't see this team ever putting a premium on TE. I don't think it will happen, but if it ever did happen that we got a great receiving TE, I have to think Gailey will use him. Will he use him as much as other coordinators? Maybe not. But any TE getting over 1000 yards is pretty great.

[THRILLHO]

because zach miller got about 10 millon more?

Yep, and he would be worth the extra 10 million over 4-5 years.

[TigerJ]

The Texans might have an interest in trading a tight end quite apart from getting under the cap. They have more good ones than they can use effectively, and might want to use one as bait to shore up an area of weakness. Hey, we could offer them two former first round picks for one tight end. Where else can you find a deal like that?

[Ickybaluky]

well his salary for 2011 is 6.5 million on a 4 year 22 mil deal

I doubt the bonus on his extension would cancel out the 6.5 mil IMO. That 1st year salary is high and front loaded

If you trade a player, his entire signing bonus would accelerate into the current year. If they cut him, that bonus acceleration would cancel out his salary. It isn't like cutting a player after June 1, where the acceleration occurs the following season.

This is one of those rumors that makes no sense. Daniels blew out his ACL and was slow to come back, but he came on in the second half of last season and looked like his old self. Houston responded by re-upping him to a 4 Yr/$22M deal that is pretty good value for a player of his ability. Now they are going to trade him away before they play this season? It makes no sense, he is one of their best offensive players.

To think the cap would drive it is laughable. Houston may be over the cap now, but that is just an accounting number. You cut a guy who is overpaid or re-work a contract or two and there is room. You don't trade away your good players.

Seriously, this is dumb. The Steelers are "over" the cap right now too, you think they are going to trade away James Harrison? Of course not. They will make a couple accounting moves and they will be under the cap tomorrow. That is they way it works.

[Demon]

People are getting worked up over nothing, because those dummies at BB are always coming up with some dumb rumors.

haha yeah... that and Blame Canada would of been here by now confirming it for us if it were true. Now he's just sitting back and laughing at your guys debate.

[trapezeus]

i still don't get why everyone thinks we need a TE when gailey has never really used one and when we have a lot of receiving threats as is.

Id rather see the team get more OL onto the team.

[ddaryl]

If you trade a player, his entire signing bonus would accelerate into the current year. If they cut him, that bonus acceleration would cancel out his salary. It isn't like cutting a player after June 1, where the acceleration occurs the following season.

.
I know that, but his bonus in this contract was mighty small.. They would still get a savings benefit from trading him. His money is coming from a front loaded contract in years 1 and 2 that pay him $14 million total, including $6.5 mil this season


but this rumor never gained much steam and does appear to be not happening.. It did however produce 3 pages of something to discuss, ***** about, and ponder

[Ickybaluky]

I know that, but his bonus in this contract was mighty small.. They would still get a savings benefit from trading him. His money is coming from a front loaded contract in years 1 and 2 that pay him $14 million total, including $6.5 mil this season

How do you know how much his bonus was because it wasn't reported.

Leaving that aside, why would they trade one of their best offensive players? They can easily get under the cap in other ways. It makes no sense on any level.