Why hasn't OLine been addressed at all?

[dasaybz]

Every fan knows that our line is weak, especially the right side. Urbik is an interesting prospect, but not starter worthy. Pears is probably even more of a prospect. I just don't understand why everyone in the world, except for the people making decisions seem to know we have a huge hole there. Why not go out and bring in someone to play the position(s)? It's stupid moves (non moves) like this that drive me absolutely nuts.

Am I missing something here? Are these guys that good of prospects?

[Goobylal]

It hasn't? A 1st on Wood, 2nd on Levitre, 5th on Wang, 4th on Hairston, signing Urbik, Rinehart, Howard, and Pears, and going hard after Clabo?

[dasaybz]

I'm talking about this year. Teams castaways and 5th round picks aren't exactly addressing the situation.

[psubills62]

Every fan knows that our line is weak, especially the right side. Urbik is an interesting prospect, but not starter worthy. Pears is probably even more of a prospect. I just don't understand why everyone in the world, except for the people making decisions seem to know we have a huge hole there. Why not go out and bring in someone to play the position(s)? It's stupid moves (non moves) like this that drive me absolutely nuts.

Am I missing something here? Are these guys that good of prospects?
1) They were trying to address other holes first, primarily defense.
2) The coaches and FO seem to be higher on Bell and Pears than the rest of us.
3) It's obvious to me that they've made an effort to address the RT position. Drafted Hairston and went after Clabo. Unfortunate they didn't succeed, but indicates they aren't happy with the RT spot.
4) Maybe they want to give Bell the chance to develop. He did improve from 2009 to 2010, and if he can't make similar leaps from 2010 to 2011, they may find a stud.

The reality of the situation is that the OL sucks, but so have a lot of other positions. They've tried to put a band-aid on the OL while addressing other positions. It's also been apparent that they simply haven't had much of a chance to grab the right guy (according to them). Were there guys they could have signed/drafted? Yes, but it seems they want to get the right guys and they just haven't gotten the right ones.

I'm of the opinion that they'll get at least one OT in the first three rounds next year.

[DBrown77]

Dude, Jaspers going to be our RT. We're set.




/sarcasm

[Ed]

I think it's pretty obvious that they would have liked to upgrade the right side of the line with how hard they pursued Clabo. It's not their fault he wanted to stay with his current team where he's comfortable and has a great chance of making the playoffs.

It's too bad we couldn't land Clabo, but after that there probably wasn't anyone else they felt that much better about since they do seem pretty high on Urbik and Pears.

So they have a couple guys they like, drafted a good prospect, and heavily pursued Clabo. It may not be ideal, but it's not like they ignored it.

[dasaybz]

So they didn't have a plan B? Just Clabo or bust?

Not surprising at all.

[psubills62]

So they didn't have a plan B? Just Clabo or bust?

Not surprising at all.
Plan B is obviously just stick with what they have and hope that one of these guys proves themselves to be adequate enough to get through the year.

I have to say, I'm always amused when people act indignant that the FO didn't take care of something RIGHT AWAY. Because, of course, if they had addressed it then we were headed for the Super Bowl this year.

[theanswer74]

They haven't addressed RT. The moved Wood to Center and want Urbik at RG to get bigger they did that.

[OpIv37]

The excuse list is in my sig. Take your pick.

[better days]

The excuse list is in my sig. Take your pick.

I pick 1, 3, & 4.

1) Build through the draft. Everyone knows Nix has said that from day one.

3) Don't want to overpay. Well, how did Dockery & Walker turn out?

4) No one available. It is well documented this was a great defensive draft. The Bills did make a run at Clabo.

[psubills62]

The excuse list is in my sig. Take your pick.
Wow, please tell me you didn't copy that fool's thread into your signature.

[cookie G]

I have to say, I'm always amused when people act indignant that the FO didn't take care of something RIGHT AWAY. Because, of course, if they had addressed it then we were headed for the Super Bowl this year.

I find it amusing when people say,

"you can't address everything in one year"
"can you at least wait until the draft is over to start *****ing"
"can you at least wait until FA'cy period is over to start *****ing"

etc., etc.

well, 2 drafts and 2 FA'cy periods are over and we got....

the 10th tackle drafted in 2010;
the 12th tackle drafted in 2011;
a bunch of guys off the waiver wire.

Its especially amusing, considering that when he was hired, he knew both starters from the previous regime were let go.

Still too soon to start *****ing, or do we need to go another few years?

[dasaybz]

Plan B is obviously just stick with what they have and hope that one of these guys proves themselves to be adequate enough to get through the year.

I have to say, I'm always amused when people act indignant that the FO didn't take care of something RIGHT AWAY. Because, of course, if they had addressed it then we were headed for the Super Bowl this year.
Urbik and Pears are stop gaps until next year? You defend this garbage?

[tampabay25690]

I think going into this year we had so many holes to fill and we really addressed the Defensive side of the ball.....

Im not sure how many games you watched last year but to me the Offense was the strength of the team and are defense was plain out awful.....

We have a really nice group of young guys on the OL and YES I would have luved to seen Clabo a Buffalo Bill but it didn't happen. You can't fix everything in 1 season....

If there is a very good OL guy out there then yes I think we should upgrade....

[dasaybz]

I think going into this year we had so many holes to fill and we really addressed the Defensive side of the ball.....

Im not sure how many games you watched last year but to me the Offense was the strength of the team and are defense was plain out awful.....

We have a really nice group of young guys on the OL and YES I would have luved to seen Clabo a Buffalo Bill but it didn't happen. You can't fix everything in 1 season....

If there is a very good OL guy out there then yes I think we should upgrade....
An average guy would be an upgrade.

[psubills62]

Urbik and Pears are stop gaps until next year? You defend this garbage?
I'm just saying that they're working on the defense, let's see what they do next year.

[tampabay25690]

An average guy would be an upgrade.

To who?????

[psubills62]

An average guy would be an upgrade.
Out of curiosity, what was/is your plan to upgrade the OL? What should they have done differently?

[dasaybz]

To who?????
Pears and Urbik.

[BLeonard]

Hey, I'm sorry, but offensive line has been a weak spot on this team well before Nix and Gailey got here.

Now that Nix and Gailey have been here for two drafts, addressing the issue as inadequately as they have, IMO is inexcusable.

As for the "Well, they went after Clabo," that's fine... But, in the end, OLine is still a weak spot. "going after guys" is fine, but you still have to do something if you don't get the guys you go after.

-Bill

[tampabay25690]

Pears and Urbik.

figured u would say that..
The funny thing is Urbik was 1 of the better OL guys we had after he was accuired...
Im not saying I agree or disagree with you, but this team obviously has a plan and the plan has been looking good IMO since Chan and Buddy took over.

Lets face it this franchise has been a train wreck for almost 10 years now.....Being a Bill's fan the past few years was almost like being a Lions fan...

I think finally we are on the right track...

[BLeonard]

I'm just saying that they're working on the defense, let's see what they do next year.

My question is, why didn't they address it LAST YEAR? It was an issue from day one.

That's fine that they're working on the defense, especially with this year's draft... It's still been two years and very little has been done to work on the OLine.

-Bill

[B-DON]

Its almost pointless trying to argue that our front office has dropped the ball more than once these past two years because all the homers come out and say just wait for this, just wait for that. Aren't you guys tired of waiting. Am I the only pissed that we let our #1 fa priority go for 5 mil a year. We couldn't offer him more than that? Doesn't this front office realize that to get anyone to come play for this embarrassing franchise is to overpay heavily for them. I'm tired of giving the front office passes for trying. Any other profession would not accept this much failure no matter how hard you are trying

[dasaybz]

figured u would say that..
The funny thing is Urbik was 1 of the better OL guys we had after he was accuired...
Im not saying I agree or disagree with you, but this team obviously has a plan and the plan has been looking good IMO since Chan and Buddy took over.

Lets face it this franchise has been a train wreck for almost 10 years now.....Being a Bill's fan the past few years was almost like being a Lions fan...

I think finally we are on the right track...
We shall see. Another year of this 4-12 crap and I think Gailey and Nix might be out the door.

[tampabay25690]

My question is, why didn't they address it LAST YEAR? It was an issue from day one.

That's fine that they're working on the defense, especially with this year's draft... It's still been two years and very little has been done to work on the OLine.

-Bill

The funny thing is if Clabo signs with the Bills the thread never starts....

[dasaybz]

The funny thing is if Clabo signs with the Bills the thread never starts....
Without a doubt.

Results are the bottom line, and they didn't get him. Thus, this thread gets started.

[psubills62]

I find it amusing when people say,

"you can't address everything in one year"
"can you at least wait until the draft is over to start *****ing"
"can you at least wait until FA'cy period is over to start *****ing"

etc., etc.

well, 2 drafts and 2 FA'cy periods are over and we got....

the 10th tackle drafted in 2010;
the 12th tackle drafted in 2011;
a bunch of guys off the waiver wire.

Its especially amusing, considering that when he was hired, he knew both starters from the previous regime were let go.

Still too soon to start *****ing, or do we need to go another few years?
You can ***** all you want, doesn't affect me. I just don't think it's necessarily warranted...yet.

I have no problem waiting another year to see what they do. If they don't make OT a priority by next year (and by priority, I mean either sign 1-2 starters or draft 1-2 starters), then I'll be pretty pissed. As I said before, it's obvious they aren't happy with the RT position, at the least, and they went after the top guy. Sucks that they didn't get him, but it's obvious that they want to upgrade it. Not much, but at least they can see it's a problem as opposed to Pee Wee Jauron, who believed defensive backs were the road to a good running game.

[tampabay25690]

We shall see. Another year of this 4-12 crap and I think Gailey and Nix might be out the door.

I don't think they will be 4-12...
Teams will not be able to push are defense around like last year.
We don't have a Barbie doll manning the middle anymore....
We upgraded when POZ signed that RIDICULOUS contract with the Jags....
We got arguably the best DL in the draft in dareus.......

If Merriman is back like Im hearing that will be scary for teams to block Moats and Merriman from the outside.....

Hey I hope we are at least 7-9............
But nothing better or worse would surprise me....

[tampabay25690]

Without a doubt.

Results are the bottom line, and they didn't get him. Thus, this thread gets started.

HA HA HA

[B-DON]

I'm just saying that they're working on the defense, let's see what they do next year.
Ahhhhhh the good old Buffalo Bill motto. Am I the only one tired of waiting until next year?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is the age of quick gratification; people expect everything fixed one year and two years.

I can guarantee that the Eagles are not going to win it all this year. Most consistent winners are still those teams draft well and keep their own players. On that front, I'm with Nix. Look at the Steelers. And NE has won it all in recent years once they don't hit mega draft stars like Brady and Seymore type of players despite the mega number of draft picks every year.

Draft strategy takes time, unfortunately. I do have concerns of whether Bills can keep developed players because they haven't shown it in the past. Poz is an example (not a star, but someone they want to keep). Draft good and keep your stars is a proven path.

[psubills62]

My question is, why didn't they address it LAST YEAR? It was an issue from day one.

That's fine that they're working on the defense, especially with this year's draft... It's still been two years and very little has been done to work on the OLine.

-Bill
My guess is that they've simply liked other guys at other positions better (at least, in the draft). The primary guys that come to mind that we could have had the year before (in the draft, at least, FA was wretchedly sparse in 2010) were Charles Brown and Bryan Bulaga. I've not seen either of those guys prove anything at this point. Bulaga would have been a top 10 pick and he wasn't that great as a rookie. As far as I can see, Brown only just now came off of an injury list and even then the Saints re-signed Bushrod and Strief. Maybe Brown will become a starter in 2012.

[psubills62]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need, but not support them for addressing a different one.

The OL sucks, that's pretty obvious. I like that the FO knows that at least one of the positions sucks and would like to address it. Next step is getting someone, and it's unfortunate they couldn't get Clabo. Would have really helped.

I'd like to ask those complaining what they would have done in retrospect. Who would you have taken in the draft to shore up the OL? Who would you have tried to sign in FA (if you could)? What I don't like about complaining is when people don't have an alternative. If you're going to complain, then tell me what you would have rather had Nix do instead of what he did. I'd really like to hear other people's plans. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing something where we're spectacularly better off than we are now, but maybe I'm missing something.

[better days]

Ahhhhhh the good old Buffalo Bill motto. Am I the only one tired of waiting until next year?

No, it is just that most of us know that is our only option.

[B-DON]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need, but not support them for addressing a different one.

The OL sucks, that's pretty obvious. I like that the FO knows that at least one of the positions sucks and would like to address it. Next step is getting someone, and it's unfortunate they couldn't get Clabo. Would have really helped.

I'd like to ask those complaining what they would have done in retrospect. Who would you have taken in the draft to shore up the OL? Who would you have tried to sign in FA (if you could)? What I don't like about complaining is when people don't have an alternative. If you're going to complain, then tell me what you would have rather had Nix do instead of what he did. I'd really like to hear other people's plans. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing something where we're spectacularly better off than we are now, but maybe I'm missing something.

I would of offered clabo a contract he couldn't refuse, drafted an olinemen instead of williams and another rb in the 5th. Hell I woulda drafted two olinemen last year also. The lines are the most important positions minus the qb, yet this front office has 4 dlinemen in the past two drafts with 2 in the first 2 rounds. We need to pay that kind of attention to our oline too instead of drafting db's and 3rd string rb's. Any fa the last two years would be better than pears and ubrik imo

[BLeonard]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need, but not support them for addressing a different one.

The OL sucks, that's pretty obvious. I like that the FO knows that at least one of the positions sucks and would like to address it. Next step is getting someone, and it's unfortunate they couldn't get Clabo. Would have really helped.

I'd like to ask those complaining what they would have done in retrospect. Who would you have taken in the draft to shore up the OL? Who would you have tried to sign in FA (if you could)? What I don't like about complaining is when people don't have an alternative. If you're going to complain, then tell me what you would have rather had Nix do instead of what he did. I'd really like to hear other people's plans. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing something where we're spectacularly better off than we are now, but maybe I'm missing something.

Well, personally, I'd be in contact with some FA's out there now... Flozell Adams and Kaczur come to mind... We have cap room, why not throw them an offer and load it with incentives? What's the worst that could happen?

Maybe they should have kept Richie Incognito? He was a RFA last year...

That's my issue... It's been an issue since Nix and Gailey have stepped in the door and what has been done to help it? Pretty much nothing.

-Bill

[psubills62]

Well, personally, I'd be in contact with some FA's out there now... Flozell Adams and Kaczur come to mind... We have cap room, why not throw them an offer and load it with incentives? What's the worst that could happen?

Maybe they should have kept Richie Incognito? He was a RFA last year...

That's my issue... It's been an issue since Nix and Gailey have stepped in the door and what has been done to help it? Pretty much nothing.

-Bill
Kaczur might be an OK pickup, but I don't think any of those things would change the fact that they need to revamp the OL. So basically they'd throw money at some guys who really don't change the long-term situation.

[psubills62]

I would of offered clabo a contract he couldn't refuse, drafted an olinemen instead of williams and another rb in the 5th. Hell I woulda drafted two olinemen last year also. The lines are the most important positions minus the qb, yet this front office has 4 dlinemen in the past two drafts with 2 in the first 2 rounds. We need to pay that kind of attention to our oline too instead of drafting db's and 3rd string rb's. Any fa the last two years would be better than pears and ubrik imo
Which OL in the second round? And which OL would you have drafted last year? I'm not just asking for generic solutions, I could say crap like that. That's not a solution, especially if the guys you draft aren't worth it. Then our defense is still the ratty old thing, and then, two years in, we would need to upgrade both the OL and the defense.

Any FA? Even guys who might not see the field thanks to recurring injuries, or guys who are so old they won't change the long-term need for OL?

I love this statement: "I would of offered clabo a contract he couldn't refuse." Seriously? What couldn't he refuse? It seemed obvious to me it wasn't about the money with Clabo. How high would you have gone? 9, 10 mil? Then people on here would be *****ing about how we overpay guys to get them into Buffalo, and now we won't be able to re-sign X and Y and Z...

That's not a plan, tell me specifically who you would have drafted and signed in FA to make our OL better. And sorry, Clabo isn't an option. What makes you think you could have convinced Clabo to come here? Yeah, it's obvious all you guys can REALLY sell being in Buffalo. Come on Tyson, don't you want to be the only decent player on a crappy OL? Suuuure...

[BLeonard]

Kaczur might be an OK pickup, but I don't think any of those things would change the fact that they need to revamp the OL. So basically they'd throw money at some guys who really don't change the long-term situation.

Personally, if it's a move that helps us out, even if it's for a season, I'm for it. it's not like I'd advocate giving them a ton of cash... But at least make some effort to upgrade, even if it's ony temporary.

At this stage, any sort of move is better than doing nothing... At least you know they're trying to upgrade the position.

-Bill

[B-DON]

Which OL in the second round? And which OL would you have drafted last year? I'm not just asking for generic solutions, I could say crap like that. That's not a solution, especially if the guys you draft aren't worth it. Then our defense is still the ratty old thing, and then, two years in, we would need to upgrade both the OL and the defense.

Any FA? Even guys who might not see the field thanks to recurring injuries, or guys who are so old they won't change the long-term need for OL?

I love this statement: "I would of offered clabo a contract he couldn't refuse." Seriously? What couldn't he refuse? It seemed obvious to me it wasn't about the money with Clabo. How high would you have gone? 9, 10 mil? Then people on here would be *****ing about how we overpay guys to get them into Buffalo, and now we won't be able to re-sign X and Y and Z...

That's not a plan, tell me specifically who you would have drafted and signed in FA to make our OL better. And sorry, Clabo isn't an option. What makes you think you could have convinced Clabo to come here? Yeah, it's obvious all you guys can REALLY sell being in Buffalo. Come on Tyson, don't you want to be the only decent player on a crappy OL? Suuuure...

Well I woulda went after the other two fa olinemen from the falcons. Blalock and can't think of the other guys name at the moment. Woulda moved wood to center last year instead of wasting his time at guard. I woulda drafted either hudson, franklin or any other linemen available at our 2nd pick this year. I woulda taken a chance on gaither, brown, bushrod, ryan harris, etc. There's to many ppl for me to list and that's just this year. We all knew this line sucked when buddy and chan took it over. They've drafted wang and hairston while adding some crappy castoffs. Ur turn to tell me why I should be content with the crap talent we are throwing out there

[EDS]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need, but not support them for addressing a different one.

The OL sucks, that's pretty obvious. I like that the FO knows that at least one of the positions sucks and would like to address it. Next step is getting someone, and it's unfortunate they couldn't get Clabo. Would have really helped.

I'd like to ask those complaining what they would have done in retrospect. Who would you have taken in the draft to shore up the OL? Who would you have tried to sign in FA (if you could)? What I don't like about complaining is when people don't have an alternative. If you're going to complain, then tell me what you would have rather had Nix do instead of what he did. I'd really like to hear other people's plans. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing something where we're spectacularly better off than we are now, but maybe I'm missing something.

I would have done the 2010 draft differently, targeting either Iupati or Baluga instead of Spiller (in restrospect Pouncey would have been the way to go), particularly after my preferred choice of Rolando McClain was off the board.

All that being said, the offensive line was a known weakness heading into the 2010 season. Buddy Nix had to be well aware of this after spending the 2009 season working in the Bills front office.

What has Buddy done since taking over as GM to address these weaknesses? Arguably, the biggest asset he has used to fill the holes on the o-line is a 4th round pick. The balance have been waiver wire pick-ups, so while he has shufffled bodies around, he does not have much to show for it and has not invested any meaningful assets to address such deficiencies.

Heck, how can Jonathan Scott get the boot from the Bills and start for the Steelers?

[Lone Stranger]

Plan B is obviously just stick with what they have and hope that one of these guys proves themselves to be adequate enough to get through the year.

I have to say, I'm always amused when people act indignant that the FO didn't take care of something RIGHT AWAY. Because, of course, if they had addressed it then we were headed for the Super Bowl this year.

The Bills have had problems with the O-Line since the days of Reuben Brown(remember him) and have not addressed it appropriately. Seems like we can draft DBs forever but the O-line gets ignored.

[psubills62]

Well I woulda went after the other two fa olinemen from the falcons. Blalock and can't think of the other guys name at the moment. Woulda moved wood to center last year instead of wasting his time at guard. I woulda drafted either hudson, franklin or any other linemen available at our 2nd pick this year. I woulda taken a chance on gaither, brown, bushrod, ryan harris, etc. There's to many ppl for me to list and that's just this year. We all knew this line sucked when buddy and chan took it over. They've drafted wang and hairston while adding some crappy castoffs. Ur turn to tell me why I should be content with the crap talent we are throwing out there
Where did I say you should be content? I'm not happy with our OL either. There's just this thing called reality that I'm trying to inject into some people regarding our overall team and what they're doing with it. Dahl would have been a fine pickup, sure, Blalock would have been decent too, though those still don't solve our problem at OT. And if you've read my posts, I'm all for signing Gaither - guy's got talent, but there's no guarantee he'll solve anything.

I've questioned their moves on the OL as much as anyone, but thus far I'm intrigued by the prospect of an upgraded defense. They're building a team with talent and I want to see where they're going. I'm sorry if that means I don't get all pissy and hormonal every time they don't do something I want them to do.

You can name a bazillion guys, but that doesn't mean those guys are as good upgrades as you want them to be. There are reasons some of those guys stayed on the market for a while and a reason why some of those OT's weren't drafted very highly.

The thing is that Nix and co. are trying to upgrade the team and the talent on the team. That may involve skipping some guys that they don't feel improve the team as much as another guy. It obviously causes hurt feelings, but it's getting to the point where they'll be able to find a guy who can really upgrade the OT position (as it's quickly becoming the worst position on the team if it wasn't already).

[Figster]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need, but not support them for addressing a different one.

The OL sucks, that's pretty obvious. I like that the FO knows that at least one of the positions sucks and would like to address it. Next step is getting someone, and it's unfortunate they couldn't get Clabo. Would have really helped.

I'd like to ask those complaining what they would have done in retrospect. Who would you have taken in the draft to shore up the OL? Who would you have tried to sign in FA (if you could)? What I don't like about complaining is when people don't have an alternative. If you're going to complain, then tell me what you would have rather had Nix do instead of what he did. I'd really like to hear other people's plans. To be honest, I have a hard time seeing something where we're spectacularly better off than we are now, but maybe I'm missing something.

OT Bryant McKinnie is sitting idle right now because the Vikings released him for being overweight coming into training camp. The guy is an iron man when it comes to not missing games and was selected to the pro Bowl in 09.

McKinnie is better then any O-lineman we have not named Wood.

[cookie G]

Which OL in the second round? And which OL would you have drafted last year? I'm not just asking for generic solutions, I could say crap like that. That's not a solution, especially if the guys you draft aren't worth it. Then our defense is still the ratty old thing, and then, two years in, we would need to upgrade both the OL and the defense.

Any FA? Even guys who might not see the field thanks to recurring injuries, or guys who are so old they won't change the long-term need for OL?

I love this statement: "I would of offered clabo a contract he couldn't refuse." Seriously? What couldn't he refuse? It seemed obvious to me it wasn't about the money with Clabo. How high would you have gone? 9, 10 mil? Then people on here would be *****ing about how we overpay guys to get them into Buffalo, and now we won't be able to re-sign X and Y and Z...

That's not a plan, tell me specifically who you would have drafted and signed in FA to make our OL better. And sorry, Clabo isn't an option. What makes you think you could have convinced Clabo to come here? Yeah, it's obvious all you guys can REALLY sell being in Buffalo. Come on Tyson, don't you want to be the only decent player on a crappy OL? Suuuure...


Oh, that's easy. A move I wanted them to make last year was to move up for Roger Saffold, when he fell out of the first. He went at the top of the 2nd. They could have probably moved up for a 3rd or 4th.

He was an all-rookie for the Rams last year as a LT. He could just easily have been a RT.

If they didn't want to move up, Velhdeer was there in the 2nd. More of a raw project, but he's probably going to be good.

This year, both Carimi and Derek Sherrod fell to the bottom of the 1st. One of our 4th's could have moved us up. Either would be a long term, substantial upgrade over what we have.

Ijalana, Orlando Franklin and Jah Reid were there in the 2nd. I don't know if I would take Jah Reid that high, but he could have been taken in the 3rd.

FA...besides Clabo,.. Jamal Brown, Harvey Dahl, Justin Blalock, Bushrod, Marshall Yanda Sean Locklear and Davin Joseph were FA this year.

Please don't pretend they didn't have other options.

[B-DON]

Where did I say you should be content? I'm not happy with our OL either. There's just this thing called reality that I'm trying to inject into some people regarding our overall team and what they're doing with it. Dahl would have been a fine pickup, sure, Blalock would have been decent too, though those still don't solve our problem at OT. And if you've read my posts, I'm all for signing Gaither - guy's got talent, but there's no guarantee he'll solve anything.

I've questioned their moves on the OL as much as anyone, but thus far I'm intrigued by the prospect of an upgraded defense. They're building a team with talent and I want to see where they're going. I'm sorry if that means I don't get all pissy and hormonal every time they don't do something I want them to do.

You can name a bazillion guys, but that doesn't mean those guys are as good upgrades as you want them to be. There are reasons some of those guys stayed on the market for a while and a reason why some of those OT's weren't drafted very highly.

So these guys that took so long to get drafted or were left in free agency for awhile aren't good enough to upgrade our crappy oline but are good enough to be signed by teams with much better olines then us? That's what i don't get about buddy and chan. There were atleast 30 guys from last years and this years draft and free agency that could of easily upgraded our oline. How about instead of drafting another cb or rb, we take some fliers on some beef upfront. We've drafted the same amount of rb's the last two years as we have oline when rb's were easily our strongest position when chan and buddy took over. There's definitely a problem with that. Up until this year ive been as optimistic as the next guy, even bordering on being a homer but I'm tired of being strung along for next year and its changed my demeanor towards this team

The thing is that Nix and co. are trying to upgrade the team and the talent on the team. That may involve skipping some guys that they don't feel improve the team as much as another guy. It obviously causes hurt feelings, but it's getting to the point where they'll be able to find a guy who can really upgrade the OT position (as it's quickly becoming the worst position on the team if it wasn't already).

So all those guys that fell in the draft or were left on free agency for one whole week are good enough to play on much better olines then ours but wouldn't be an upgrade here? I'm not buying the they fell in the draft or were still there in free agency after two weeks. We needed help on this oline and EVERY single bills fan knew/knows that but buddy and chan sit on their asses and stay with cast offs and 7th rd picks. I'm tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting for next year. Everyone here said the same thing last year and the year befor and before etc.... I used to be as optimistic as the next guy, even bordering on homer sometimes but this franchised has beat me down and I won't praise them for their lack of moves or their skill for picking up waiver wire guys.

[JCBills]

I'm talking about this year. Teams castaways and 5th round picks aren't exactly addressing the situation.

Alright? So fixing everything in one season is possible? Doubtful.

Nix and Gailey are building the defense. That has been the clear focus over the last 2 drafts. After this season, we'll know whether or not that has been a successful attempt, or at least if it's on the way.

Most teams don't have studs at every spot on the line. Most don't even have what so many internet experts think they're qualified to deem "starter quality". Jonathan Scott? Signed, and then extended, by the Steelers. Our scrub ends up starting for one of the best teams of the decade. Sometimes it is a matter of system fit, team fit, or other things that can't be measured at a combine. Not every good team has a 1st round LT. Not every good team pays their line out the ass. Let's be realistic here.

[B-DON]

Alright? So fixing everything in one season is possible? Doubtful.

Nix and Gailey are building the defense. That has been the clear focus over the last 2 drafts. After this season, we'll know whether or not that has been a successful attempt, or at least if it's on the way.

Most teams don't have studs at every spot on the line. Most don't even have what so many internet experts think they're qualified to deem "starter quality". Jonathan Scott? Signed, and then extended, by the Steelers. Our scrub ends up starting for one of the best teams of the decade. Sometimes it is a matter of system fit, team fit, or other things that can't be measured at a combine. Not every good team has a 1st round LT. Not every good team pays their line out the ass. Let's be realistic here.

And why exactly can't we try and build an oline at the same time? We couldn't of drafted oline projects instead of rb's or db's or wr's? I'm not buying the "we are building a defense right now" excuse. Good teams build both at the same time. Hell this team can't even build one or the other so I guess building atleast one should get some praise around here. Just sad. Look at what the pats did. They knew there dline and qb pressure was weak so they've gone out and gotten 3 or 4 guys to atleast try and compete for the job. Meanwhile we hand scrubs like ubrik and pears the starting job with no competition whatsoever. Makes no sense

[ServoBillieves]

So they didn't have a plan B? Just Clabo or bust?

Not surprising at all.

And if we drafted an OT 3rd overall, people would complain that we didnt address the run D.

If we got a guard in the 3rd round, we should've drafted one earlier.

we didn't trade for a top flight RT by giving up... What? Where are the Bills stacked? And when we did, didn't we give up too much for him?

We could bring im Flozell, but why didn't we go younger than him?

There's always a complaint. This team has sucked for years and finally has pieces in place to build around. Cant get 53 phenoms in 2 years. Deal with it and see how it pans.

[B-DON]

And if we drafted an OT 3rd overall, people would complain that we didnt address the run D.

If we got a guard in the 3rd round, we should've drafted one earlier.

we didn't trade for a top flight RT by giving up... What? Where are the Bills stacked? And when we did, didn't we give up too much for him?

We could bring im Flozell, but why didn't we go younger than him?

There's always a complaint. This team has sucked for years and finally has pieces in place to build around. Cant get 53 phenoms in 2 years. Deal with it and see how it pans.

Lol same excuse every year, "we can't replace 53 guys in one year". First off it's been two years and how many holes have they replaced? One dlinemen that was taken 3rd overall is the only guy this regime has contributed to this team. That's absolutely sad yet every says wait till next year. Why? So we can replace one ,ore starter with our top 5 pick?

[psubills62]

Oh, that's easy. A move I wanted them to make last year was to move up for Roger Saffold, when he fell out of the first. He went at the top of the 2nd. They could have probably moved up for a 3rd or 4th.

He was an all-rookie for the Rams last year as a LT. He could just easily have been a RT.

If they didn't want to move up, Velhdeer was there in the 2nd. More of a raw project, but he's probably going to be good.

This year, both Carimi and Derek Sherrod fell to the bottom of the 1st. One of our 4th's could have moved us up. Either would be a long term, substantial upgrade over what we have.

Ijalana, Orlando Franklin and Jah Reid were there in the 2nd. I don't know if I would take Jah Reid that high, but he could have been taken in the 3rd.

FA...besides Clabo,.. Jamal Brown, Harvey Dahl, Justin Blalock, Bushrod, Marshall Yanda Sean Locklear and Davin Joseph were FA this year.

Please don't pretend they didn't have other options.
You seem to speculate quite a bit on what could have moved us up to get these guys. What makes you think you're right on that, out of curiosity? Last I heard, none of those teams at the end of round 1 wanted to move down. What do you do then?

Saffold was decent, I'll be interested to see how he develops. Veldheer? Another guy I'll be interested to see, but I doubt he turns into very much. Carimi and Sherrod would be good options too, definitely would have liked to have either of them.

Not a fan of Franklin, Ijalana could probably play OT, but seems to be more of an OG and Reid is intriguing.

I'm not pretending they didn't have other options. I'm implying that people ***** without anything specific in mind. Obviously you do, but most people just throw out crap and hope it sticks to the wall. And that's fine, I know a number of people go

And to end, I'll simply keep repeating what I've been saying - they're trying to upgrade the team's talent level. I don't agree with everything they do in that regard, and obviously neither do you, but I'm willing to give them another year to see what they are going to do. I'm also willing to wait and see if we do actually have talent at the positions they addressed instead of *****ing about the ones they didn't, because they can't address everything at once.

And honestly, even if they did address the OL, not sure I'd trust it. Clabo is the only guy they've targeted that I've liked. Rinehart and Pears were OK pickups mid-season.

Threads like these indicate people ***** just to *****. Nobody wants to talk about the positions they've addressed - no, that's sucking up to the FO and ignoring reality. But when we talk about the one position (grievous though it is), well that's just how it is. People complain about our talent level, then complain when someone tries to fix it.

[B-DON]

Exactly what positions has this regime upgraded tho?

[psubills62]

Lol same excuse every year, "we can't replace 53 guys in one year". First off it's been two years and how many holes have they replaced? One dlinemen that was taken 3rd overall is the only guy this regime has contributed to this team. That's absolutely sad yet every says wait till next year. Why? So we can replace one ,ore starter with our top 5 pick?
The problem is when people mistake reality for excuses.

One DL taken 3rd overall? That's really all you see? Come on, Snoopy, you're not that blind.

Yes, you're right, "make us a contender in one offseason." People complain that we have no talent, then piss on the people who try to change that. Maybe you form a club and call it Whiners Incorporated, The Laborers who Express a Severe lack of Satisfaction. I'd suggest using the acronym, it would convey a significant amount of information.

[psubills62]

Exactly what positions has this regime upgraded tho?
DL, I'd say overall our talent at LB, and maybe CB - remains to be seen though. Also, WR. Maybe you should wait for the season to actually play out and watch for yourself, though.

Or maybe you'd like to hearken back to the days of Keith Ellison and those great LB's we always had on hand?

[Tatonka]

im actually totally ok with the line we have.. i guess im on an island.. pears was a starter for 2 years and i thought he played fine last year..

urbik was also highly regarded coming out of college and was drafted on day one by the steelers.. he played well last year.. at a certain point, consistency and stability is a factor.

im fine with what we got.

[psubills62]

So all those guys that fell in the draft or were left on free agency for one whole week are good enough to play on much better olines then ours but wouldn't be an upgrade here? I'm not buying the they fell in the draft or were still there in free agency after two weeks. We needed help on this oline and EVERY single bills fan knew/knows that but buddy and chan sit on their asses and stay with cast offs and 7th rd picks. I'm tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting for next year. Everyone here said the same thing last year and the year befor and before etc.... I used to be as optimistic as the next guy, even bordering on homer sometimes but this franchised has beat me down and I won't praise them for their lack of moves or their skill for picking up waiver wire guys.
You seem to love making claims that are completely unfounded. Nobody's "prais them for their lack of moves" or their waiver wire pickups. Here's what I'm saying: 1) if you're going to ***** about what they don't do, at least give them whatever credit they may deserve for what they do, and 2) give them a little time.

Yes, I know that every Bills fan out there is sick of hearing #2. It doesn't matter - it's still the reality of the situation. As much as people are tired of it, the team needs time. They went about the draft and free agency the wrong way for so long that now we're in this crappy position. I don't agree with everything Nix and co. have done (or haven't done), but I think they're [I]generally[ going about things the right way. I think it's best to add talent when you can and not narrow your focus so much one one position (like OT) that you exclude any other position. Our team needed upgrades across the board. It's unknown yet how much those positions may have been upgraded, but they seem to be doing an OK job. If you don't think it's worth waiting to see how some of these guys, like Troup, Carrington, Moats, Batten, Sheppard, Easley, etc. turn out, fine. But it's foolish to just dismiss them because they aren't OT's.

[B-DON]

DL, I'd say overall our talent at LB, and maybe CB - remains to be seen though. Also, WR. Maybe you should wait for the season to actually play out and watch for yourself, though.

Or maybe you'd like to hearken back to the days of Keith Ellison and those great LB's we always had on hand?

I agree on the dline part but dareus has yet to play a game. Our lb's are in no way improved yet. Merriman hasn't played a game in two years, barnett is coming off an injury, we lost a 4 year starter and we still have chris kelsay starting. I'm failing to see an upgrade there. Sorry if I'd rather see these guys prove it on the field instaed of annointing them upgrades and by doing so ur being very homerish and not realistic. Look I'd love for all these guys to come out and kill it, but no one on this d besides williams is a sure thing. That's pretty scary to me. Potential only takes you so far.

[psubills62]

I agree on the dline part but dareus has yet to play a game. Our lb's are in no way improved yet. Merriman hasn't played a game in two years, barnett is coming off an injury, we lost a 4 year starter and we still have chris kelsay starting. I'm failing to see an upgrade there. Sorry if I'd rather see these guys prove it on the field instaed of annointing them upgrades and by doing so ur being very homerish and not realistic. Look I'd love for all these guys to come out and kill it, but no one on this d besides williams is a sure thing. That's pretty scary to me. Potential only takes you so far.
Look at the depth, not just the starters. And try, just try to remember what our LB's were like before. Didn't my Keith Ellison comment remind you at all? That's what I mean by upgrade - mostly that our LB's were so bad previously that even the young guys who haven't proven much are an upgrade.

Gee, I guess I'm a homer and unrealistic for assuming a bunch of young LB's are upgrades. But writing them off automatically is logical and realistic. Gotcha.

Well, that's the position we were put in by previous regimes who did crap to upgrade the talent on the defense or offense. Now we've got a whole bunch of young players who are looking to prove themselves. Maybe it's worth waiting to see what they do before assuming they're just worthless junk.

[B-DON]

You seem to love making claims that are completely unfounded. Nobody's "prais them for their lack of moves" or their waiver wire pickups. Here's what I'm saying: 1) if you're going to ***** about what they don't do, at least give them whatever credit they may deserve for what they do, and 2) give them a little time.

Yes, I know that every Bills fan out there is sick of hearing #2. It doesn't matter - it's still the reality of the situation. As much as people are tired of it, the team needs time. They went about the draft and free agency the wrong way for so long that now we're in this crappy position. I don't agree with everything Nix and co. have done (or haven't done), but I think they're [I]generally[ going about things the right way. I think it's best to add talent when you can and not narrow your focus so much one one position (like OT) that you exclude any other position. Our team needed upgrades across the board. It's unknown yet how much those positions may have been upgraded, but they seem to be doing an OK job. If you don't think it's worth waiting to see how some of these guys, like Troup, Carrington, Moats, Batten, Sheppard, Easley, etc. turn out, fine. But it's foolish to just dismiss them because they aren't OT's.

I haven't once ripped us for takin lb's or dline. We don't need easley, we don't need white, or any cb. Those should of all been used on the oline imo.

[B-DON]

Look at the depth, not just the starters. And try, just try to remember what our LB's were like before. Didn't my Keith Ellison comment remind you at all? That's what I mean by upgrade - mostly that our LB's were so bad previously that even the young guys who haven't proven much are an upgrade.

Gee, I guess I'm a homer and unrealistic for assuming a bunch of young LB's are upgrades. But writing them off automatically is logical and realistic. Gotcha.

Well, that's the position we were put in by previous regimes who did crap to upgrade the talent on the defense or offense. Now we've got a whole bunch of young players who are looking to prove themselves. Maybe it's worth waiting to see what they do before assuming they're just worthless junk.

Where you're being a homer is with ur assumption that moats and batten are better then ellison. Look, I know our lb's sucked balls for a long time but I will not praise a guy for drafting a bunch of backups which is what these guys are right now. They may end up being worse than ellison. It goes both ways so how can u say they are an upgrade?

[better days]

I haven't once ripped us for takin lb's or dline. We don't need easley, we don't need white, or any cb. Those should of all been used on the oline imo.

Nix has said his philosophy is to not reach for a guy. He said you don't draft a guy before where you have him rated to go......even if you need a guy at that position.

[B-DON]

So if we don't have an oline rated higher than where we are pickin we won't pick him? Total B.S. I have no problem drafting bpa but at some point you have to address needs.

[better days]

So if we don't have an oline rated higher than where we are pickin we won't pick him? Total B.S. I have no problem drafting bpa but at some point you have to address needs.

Well the Bills did draft Hairston in the 4th. This was not a good draft for OL, but a very good defensive draft.

[PromoTheRobot]

OT Bryant McKinnie is sitting idle right now because the Vikings released him for being overweight coming into training camp. The guy is an iron man when it comes to not missing games and was selected to the pro Bowl in 09.

McKinnie is better then any O-lineman we have not named Wood.

I know you are trying to make a point but what you posted is ******ed. McKinnie's agent just announced he'll $2.5M for one year. If he's as good as you think, wouldn't someone sign him?

PTR

[B-DON]

Someone will sign mckinnie. You can guarantee that. The email is two hours old. Give him a week and he will have a new team

[psubills62]

Where you're being a homer is with ur assumption that moats and batten are better then ellison. Look, I know our lb's sucked balls for a long time but I will not praise a guy for drafting a bunch of backups which is what these guys are right now. They may end up being worse than ellison. It goes both ways so how can u say they are an upgrade?
Because I saw Moats play and I know Batten has talent, unlike whatever it was Ellison had (I'm thinking it was Ralph Wilson blackmail material). Moats at least showed flashes

[psubills62]

Someone will sign mckinnie. You can guarantee that. The email is two hours old. Give him a week and he will have a new team
The dude showed up to camp at 385 pounds. Even if a team signs him, it will take a little while before he plays.

[B-DON]

I'm not saying he plays right away but there is no way he doesn't have a job pretty soon. I live in minneap and it wasn't just his weight. They signed the lt from the colts and it was frazier making a point of who's boss. I woulda done the same thing. Guy is uber talented but lazy. Maybe being curt will light a fire under his ass. Can't be any worse than bell if bell can even stay healthy. And lol at ur ralph/ellison comment PSU. Those kind of things are why I don't give batten and moats the benefit of the doubt just yet. I want them to be good but our draft picks rarely seem to go that route.

[Mike]

4) Maybe they want to give Bell the chance to develop. He did improve from 2009 to 2010, and if he can't make similar leaps from 2010 to 2011, they may find a stud.

I see Studs grow on trees so just in case Bell doesn't become one we can find him in the 5th -7th round or in the waiver wire...

[Mike]

4) Maybe they want to give Bell the chance to develop. He did improve from 2009 to 2010, and if he can't make similar leaps from 2010 to 2011, they may find a stud.

What are you trying to say? Are you saying that if Bell makes similar strides he will become a stud and that the Bills have found their stud or that if does not make such strides the Bills will find a stud elsewhere?

If, not are you really saying that the Bills will be able to find a Stud LT so easily as if they grow on trees?If it is so easy and such a given to find one, why haven't they already?

[Figster]

I know you are trying to make a point but what you posted is ******ed. McKinnie's agent just announced he'll $2.5M for one year. If he's as good as you think, wouldn't someone sign him?

PTR

Who on the Bills roster has proven himself to be a better O-lineman?


Its ******ed to think McKinnie wouldn't upgrade our O-line in my opinion.

[cookie G]

You seem to speculate quite a bit on what could have moved us up to get these guys. What makes you think you're right on that, out of curiosity? Last I heard, none of those teams at the end of round 1 wanted to move down. What do you do then?

Saffold was decent, I'll be interested to see how he develops. Veldheer? Another guy I'll be interested to see, but I doubt he turns into very much. Carimi and Sherrod would be good options too, definitely would have liked to have either of them.

Not a fan of Franklin, Ijalana could probably play OT, but seems to be more of an OG and Reid is intriguing.

I'm not pretending they didn't have other options. I'm implying that people ***** without anything specific in mind. Obviously you do, but most people just throw out crap and hope it sticks to the wall. And that's fine, I know a number of people go

And to end, I'll simply keep repeating what I've been saying - they're trying to upgrade the team's talent level. I don't agree with everything they do in that regard, and obviously neither do you, but I'm willing to give them another year to see what they are going to do. I'm also willing to wait and see if we do actually have talent at the positions they addressed instead of *****ing about the ones they didn't, because they can't address everything at once.

And honestly, even if they did address the OL, not sure I'd trust it. Clabo is the only guy they've targeted that I've liked. Rinehart and Pears were OK pickups mid-season.

Threads like these indicate people ***** just to *****. Nobody wants to talk about the positions they've addressed - no, that's sucking up to the FO and ignoring reality. But when we talk about the one position (grievous though it is), well that's just how it is. People complain about our talent level, then complain when someone tries to fix it.

You asked, I gave you more than a dozen viable options both through the draft and through free agency.

If the Oline sucks, Buddy really doesn't have anyone to blame but himself. If he can sign a Brad Smith at 4 million a year, he can find a decent OL.

All you're doing is giving me the labor pains. The baby...show it.

[mysticsoto]

Its ******ed to think McKinnie wouldn't upgrade our O-line in my opinion.

It's ******ed to think he would. McKinnie is an overweight slob right now and was the cause of Minnesota's Oline woes last year. You still have McKinnie in his prime in your head. That McKinnie is gone. He would be a great back up to have at LT, but he's too arrogant to accept a backup role - especially w/Buffalo who he sometimes still seems to hold a grudge for not drafting him and choosing Mike Williams instead. It was a mistake, but that was a whole different administration and should be treated that way.

Nevertheless, I can't seem him coming here, unless Bell goes out w/injury and we are forced to pay him what he wants and start him...despite his humongous size, he's still better than our crappy backup.

[Figster]

It's ******ed to think he would. McKinnie is an overweight slob right now and was the cause of Minnesota's Oline woes last year. You still have McKinnie in his prime in your head. That McKinnie is gone. He would be a great back up to have at LT, but he's too arrogant to accept a backup role - especially w/Buffalo who he sometimes still seems to hold a grudge for not drafting him and choosing Mike Williams instead. It was a mistake, but that was a whole different administration and should be treated that way.

Nevertheless, I can't seem him coming here, unless Bell goes out w/injury and we are forced to pay him what he wants and start him...despite his humongous size, he's still better than our crappy backup.



Yet Bryant McKinnie was selected to the Pro bowl two seasons ago. Has anyone on the Bills roster/O-line even sniffed the Pro Bowl?

You say on one hand McKinnie wouldn't upgrade the O-line (which he could do as a starter or as a backup) yet he would make a good backup at LT

Talk about ******ed posts...

[Philagape]

Yet Bryant McKinnie was selected to the Pro bowl two seasons ago.

So? Two seasons ago is irrelevant

[Figster]

So? Two seasons ago is irrelevant


Maybe to you it is Philigape, to a GM it says the athlete has reached elite status at some point in his career.

Two seasons is not very long ago...

[B-DON]

If mckinne is washed up I don't want to even begin to talk about our disaster of a line.

[Philagape]

Maybe to you it is Philigape, to a GM it says the athlete has reached elite status at some point in his career.

Two seasons is not very long ago...

It's ancient history. Let's sign Kurt Warner, he was elite too just two years ago. Or Brett Favre!
I don't care what players were, I care what they are, and McKinnie is a washed-up, lazy, fat has-been who would be pointless on a rebuilding team

[Figster]

It's ancient history. Let's sign Kurt Warner, he was elite too just two years ago. Or Brett Favre!
I don't care what players were, I care what they are, and McKinnie is a washed-up, lazy, fat has-been who would be pointless on a rebuilding team

So let me get this straight, after a very productive 9 year career in the NFL, 80 game start streak at LT, McKinnie comes into camp overweight after we just ended a lockout and it automatically makes him a washed up, lazy has been. Lets just disregard the fact that the guy started all 16 games last season playing the most important position on the O-line.

brilliant...

[OpIv37]

Wow, please tell me you didn't copy that fool's thread into your signature.

no, this list is my own, stemming from an argument that I had with justa and mystic in a different thread. I think he actually partially copied mine.

[mysticsoto]

no, this list is my own, stemming from an argument that I had with justa and mystic in a different thread. I think he actually partially copied mine.

I guess I should put in my .sig your dumb ass reasoning. The FO did something...therefore it was wrong.

[mysticsoto]

So let me get this straight, after a very productive 9 year career in the NFL, 80 game start streak at LT, McKinnie comes into camp overweight after we just ended a lockout and it automatically makes him a washed up, lazy has been. Lets just disregard the fact that the guy started all 16 games last season playing the most important position on the O-line.

brilliant...

No, his decline began and was very evident last year. If he was so good, Minnesota would have kept him. LTs don't grow on trees. They don't get paid more than any other linemen for no reason. The fact that they dumped him without even given him a chance this year shows where he is in his career. He's had a fine one, but it's near it's end. Further evidenced by no one else picking him up as of yet.

And yes, I don't know why you find it ******ed that McKinnie is not starting material right now, but would be a great, experienced veteran backup and above choices like Wang. How can I explain something that should be obvious???

[Philagape]

So let me get this straight, after a very productive 9 year career in the NFL, 80 game start streak at LT, McKinnie comes into camp overweight after we just ended a lockout and it automatically makes him a washed up, lazy has been. Lets just disregard the fact that the guy started all 16 games last season playing the most important position on the O-line.

brilliant...

Yes.
Welcome to the passage of time.

Even IF he could work himself back into shape (who knows how long that would take), even IF he could play well enough (newsflash: players decline as they age), why would anyone want such a horrible example around the young players? What kind of a pro would let himself become such a blob?

[k-oneputt]

What do they have to lose with McKinnie. If he doesn't work out they can just cut him. With the o-tackles on this team he should already be here for 2.5 mil per year.

[mysticsoto]

What do they have to lose with McKinnie. If he doesn't work out they can just cut him. With the o-tackles on this team he should already be here for 2.5 mil per year.

While I would agree with that, I think he has something against Buffalo for us not making him the #1 LT pick that year and picking Mike Williams instead. He also probably believes he should start which Chan might disagree with...

[OpIv37]

I guess I should put in my .sig your dumb ass reasoning. The FO did something...therefore it was wrong.

That's not my logic at all.

My logic is that performance dictates competence, not title. So far, their performance has been less than inspiring. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

And before someone gives me the old "you're blaming the current FO for the failures of the past FO's," I have a fairly extensive list of complaints against the current FO. I can go through them if you want, but it's just going to end up in re-hashing arguments we've already had 50 times.

[Figster]

No, his decline began and was very evident last year. If he was so good, Minnesota would have kept him. LTs don't grow on trees. They don't get paid more than any other linemen for no reason. The fact that they dumped him without even given him a chance this year shows where he is in his career. He's had a fine one, but it's near it's end. Further evidenced by no one else picking him up as of yet.

And yes, I don't know why you find it ******ed that McKinnie is not starting material right now, but would be a great, experienced veteran backup and above choices like Wang. How can I explain something that should be obvious???

Did I post "I find it ******ed McKinnie isn't starting material"? No, I said its ******ed to think McKinnie wouldn't upgrade our O-line, big difference.

[TigerJ]

As far as this year is concerned, I'm a bit surprised Buffalo did not add a quality veteran offensive tackle, but they did more than nothing on the offensive line. They added a fourth round pick at right tackle, and Hairston is going to make the team. I disagree that Pears is more of a project than Urbik. Pears has more starting experience, and thus far looks reasonably competent at right tackle. At this point I'm more concerned about depth at left tackle than I am about right tackle. Wang and Howard are Bells backups, and I don't know if they are really up to the challenge if Bell is out for an extended period.

Urbik has struggled, but he did play some last season, and looked OK when he did. I think Marcell Dareus is giving him fits because Dareus has far more than the usual explosion and power for a defensive tackle. That's good for Urbik because he is going to face at least some real good DTs this year. Urbik has got to sharpen up his technique, but at least going up against Dareus is going to give him a real good indication of how he's progressing. I think Buffalo did not try to spend money on a veteran guard because they thought they had enough guys on the team with enough upside and at least minimal NFL game experience that they could get away with developing what they've got. That's the kind of judgment call a GM has to make sometimes.

[B-DON]

Yes.
Welcome to the passage of time.

Even IF he could work himself back into shape (who knows how long that would take), even IF he could play well enough (newsflash: players decline as they age), why would anyone want such a horrible example around the young players? What kind of a pro would let himself become such a blob?
Are you referring to mckinnie or haynesworth? The guy still has talent left, his release had a lot to do with a new coach making an example of not to **** with him just as much as it had to do with his weight. Plus they had already signed a lt earlier in fa. Do you have any examples of his decline or just cuz he was cut for being over weight he sucks now? Ne makes moves like this and gets praised.

[B-DON]

Btw, how many of these mckinnie haters watched more than one Viking game last year? Unfortunately for me I saw them all and there is no way in he'll Bell is better than mckinnie.

[Philagape]

Are you referring to mckinnie or haynesworth? The guy still has talent left, his release had a lot to do with a new coach making an example of not to **** with him just as much as it had to do with his weight. Plus they had already signed a lt earlier in fa. Do you have any examples of his decline or just cuz he was cut for being over weight he sucks now? Ne makes moves like this and gets praised.

Oh ok, bring him in he can **** with our team now. Just what a young, building team needs!
At age 32 (which means he'll be 34 by the time the Bills are a contender, if then) he can hit the wall at any time, and this incident makes sooner more likely than later. With his age already a strike against him, his attitude and big fat ass rule him out.
The Patriots can take on red flags because they can still win now either way, and one more year squeezed out of an aging vet, who's motivated by playing for a proven winner, may put them over the top. The Bills, obviously, are not the Patriots.

[B-DON]

I don't think I ever said we should sign him. A few of you were saying he is trash and washed up and once again failed to provide any reason why he sucks besides him being cut for being over weight. To many posters just say **** on this board but bring up no factual evidence like you're doing now towards mckinnie

[mysticsoto]

That's not my logic at all.

My logic is that performance dictates competence, not title. So far, their performance has been less than inspiring. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

And before someone gives me the old "you're blaming the current FO for the failures of the past FO's," I have a fairly extensive list of complaints against the current FO. I can go through them if you want, but it's just going to end up in re-hashing arguments we've already had 50 times.

If you were objective and also gave them credit when they did something positive it'd be a different story. But, just as an example, you made it clear that you didn't want the FO to keep Poz, and when they didn't, you still blasted them. It's what you do all the time - that's not an isolated incident.

[X-Era]

While I would agree with that, I think he has something against Buffalo for us not making him the #1 LT pick that year and picking Mike Williams instead. He also probably believes he should start which Chan might disagree with...He actually told everyone the night before the draft that he didn't want to go to buffalo.

[X-Era]

The OL should have been addressed. To me that's the bottom line.

We have no quality depth and we have a very questionable right side of the line right now. That's not a good combination at all. We should have done something about it when we could have. Now, they are going to go with who they have and pray.

[mysticsoto]

I don't think I ever said we should sign him. A few of you were saying he is trash and washed up and once again failed to provide any reason why he sucks besides him being cut for being over weight. To many posters just say **** on this board but bring up no factual evidence like you're doing now towards mckinnie

At 400 lbs he is most definitely NOT better than Bell. If he were close to his playing weight (335 lbs) I'd say yeah, let's grab him. 65 lbs heavier than his normal playing weight is not something you can just shrug your shoulders at and act like it's no big deal.

I wouldn't object to bringing him in at half his asking price with some weight incentives that can increase his salary if he loses most of that weight and can get some playing time throughout the year.

But while people like Jasper, Troup, etc are working hard to put on muscle weight along with Merriman showing a strong work ethic for the younger guys, we don't need a fat slob on the team who just wants to get some last easy paydays before retiring. If that's McKinnie's mentality right now, then I'd rather not have him on board.

[X-Era]

At 400 lbs he is most definitely NOT better than Bell. If he were close to his playing weight (335 lbs) I'd say yeah, let's grab him. 65 lbs heavier than his normal playing weight is not something you can just shrug your shoulders at and act like it's no big deal.

I wouldn't object to bringing him in at half his asking price with some weight incentives that can increase his salary if he loses most of that weight and can get some playing time throughout the year.

But while people like Jasper, Troup, etc are working hard to put on muscle weight along with Merriman showing a strong work ethic for the younger guys, we don't need a fat slob on the team who just wants to get some last easy paydays before retiring. If that's McKinnie's mentality right now, then I'd rather not have him on board.Personally I don't know how a guy like Nick Kaczur doesn't make sense for a team that admits it has no depth. Hell even Jared Gaither, Max Starks, or Flo Adams. Yes, don't sign a guy who isn't healthy. But, it's not like there aren't options still. When you refuse to spend anymore money, you have little to no other options.

Put it this way. I think we should all remember that starting Eric Pears and Craig Urbik and having no depth was a choice that we made when we chose not to spend for something else. Now is when you can do something about it and not have a major impact on the field.

Personally, I pray Hairston continues to develop... he's looked good to me so far.

[mysticsoto]

Personally I don't know how a guy like Nick Kaczur doesn't make sense for a team that admits it has no depth. Hell even Jared Gaither, Max Starks, or Flo Adams. Yes, don't sign a guy who isn't healthy. But, it's not like there aren't options still. When you refuse to spend anymore money, you have little to no other options.

There must be something wrong w/Kaczur b'cse it's not just the Bills...NO ONE is going after him. He previously had back and even shoulder injuries. He may also be asking for too much money. At 32, this will likely be his last payday. It may be that the Bills (and the rest of the teams) are waiting for his price tag to come down.

Other than that, I haven't seen much on him so I don't know of any other reasons why he hasn't signed anywhere yet.

[Mike]

Listen, I have no problem agreeing with you guys that the OL needs to be addressed. As it is, it's not a very good OL. But I don't see why it's legitimate to put down the FO for ignoring a position of need

Its seems like you answered your own question... You go on to say that its excusable because they addressed "other positions of need" and you ask "what else could have they done". Do you pay attention to the Bills or are you a blind tribalist homer? Are you even aware of what you are saying?

Last year in the first the Bills drafted Spiller, who was not a need. Instead they could have drafted a good Line man. In the second, last year, they could have perhaps drafted a better prospect in the 2nd round that reaching for Troup who had a 3rd round grade. This year they could have drafted a Line Man in the Second round instead of Williams. They could have offered Clabo more money. They could have attempted multiple sing and trades ala the Pats. I wish you would follow this team more closely before making asinine arguments.

[Mike]

The thing is that Nix and co. are trying to upgrade the team and the talent on the team. That may involve skipping some guys that they don't feel improve the team as much as another guy.

Wow. This explains so much, like why they wait until round 4 to address the Line or why they skip the FA and go straight to the waiver wire. Its because "No and Co are trying to upgrade the team and the talent on the team. That may involve skipping some guys that they don't feel improve the team as much as another guy."

[Mike]

Alright? So fixing everything in one season is possible? Doubtful.


Dude, what you are implying would be the most ******ed thing ever. Your implying that the Bill are fixing one thing at a time and now they are working on the D. That just plain silly. This would be 5th graders way of fixing he Bills and it wouldn't work. Each draft has its blue chippers, and its strengths and weaknesses and a good FO will go with Best Applicable Player Available. You would not overlook a stud LineMan because your working on the D, that just plain dumb.

[OpIv37]

If you were objective and also gave them credit when they did something positive it'd be a different story. But, just as an example, you made it clear that you didn't want the FO to keep Poz, and when they didn't, you still blasted them. It's what you do all the time - that's not an isolated incident.

Do you not understand motive and failed intent?

They WANTED to keep Poz. They FAILED to keep Poz. My opinion of Poz- regardless of whether I think he's good or bad- has no bearing on that whatsoever.

Think about it like this:
The FO wanted to keep Poz. IMO that was the WRONG decision.
The FO attempted to keep Poz but failed. I got the result I wanted, but not because the FO made the right decision. They made the wrong decision, but were unable to see that decision through to completion.

The result I wanted came from a bad decision and then an inability to execute that decision. And you expect me to give the FO credit? That's insane. The ends are correct, but the means are a glaring display of incompetence.

Also, remember that the subject of Poz came up in a thread about what the Bills were doing in FA. They failed to land Clabo. They failed to retain Poz. They let Burnett go to the Fish because they were dicking around with 5th round rookies and couldn't figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time. Last year, they ****ed up royally on Cornell Green, and the other players they added- like Davis, Dwan Edwards and Torbor- were just role players needed to fill out the 3-4. Their record on FA's is NOT good at all.

[mysticsoto]

Do you not understand motive and failed intent?

They WANTED to keep Poz. They FAILED to keep Poz. My opinion of Poz- regardless of whether I think he's good or bad- has no bearing on that whatsoever.

Think about it like this:
The FO wanted to keep Poz. IMO that was the WRONG decision.
The FO attempted to keep Poz but failed. I got the result I wanted, but not because the FO made the right decision. They made the wrong decision, but were unable to see that decision through to completion.

The result I wanted came from a bad decision and then an inability to execute that decision. And you expect me to give the FO credit? That's insane. The ends are correct, but the means are a glaring display of incompetence.

Also, remember that the subject of Poz came up in a thread about what the Bills were doing in FA. They failed to land Clabo. They failed to retain Poz. They let Burnett go to the Fish because they were dicking around with 5th round rookies and couldn't figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time. Last year, they ****ed up royally on Cornell Green, and the other players they added- like Davis, Dwan Edwards and Torbor- were just role players needed to fill out the 3-4. Their record on FA's is NOT good at all.

No matter how many times you repeat it will NOT make it true Op. I already corrected your incorrect statement, and just b'cse you continue to ignore the correction and repeat your incorrect version is not going to change that.

The Bills wanted to keep Poz AT A CERTAIN PRICE. The price was exceeded. They let him go. Period! That's not a failure of the FO no matter how much you try to paint it so. It was EXACTLY what they said they'd do.

Clabo we talked about also. They made a very good offer and he really didn't want to come. The analysts, before he had even decided, had all stated that this would probably not be about money. They were correct.

The record for FAs is less than stellar, but I'm not going to pin past decisions on this FO. They got Merriman here and so far he's looking pretty good. That's a plus for them and something I'm sure you'll ignore. You're like the Patti of the BZ...you revel on bad news and ignore anything good.

[Mike]

Do you not understand motive and failed intent?

They WANTED to keep Poz. They FAILED to keep Poz. My opinion of Poz- regardless of whether I think he's good or bad- has no bearing on that whatsoever.

Think about it like this:
The FO wanted to keep Poz. IMO that was the WRONG decision.
The FO attempted to keep Poz but failed. I got the result I wanted, but not because the FO made the right decision. They made the wrong decision, but were unable to see that decision through to completion....

Your beating a dead horse. For a few days you have tried to explain this, can't you see that some people will just not get it. Just won't happen. Its like trying to explain addition to a 3 year old. No matter how logical 2+2=4 is a 3 year old will just have a hard time with the concept. Wait until he is six, then try again.

[OpIv37]

No matter how many times you repeat it will NOT make it true Op. I already corrected your incorrect statement, and just b'cse you continue to ignore the correction and repeat your incorrect version is not going to change that.

The Bills wanted to keep Poz AT A CERTAIN PRICE. The price was exceeded. They let him go. Period! That's not a failure of the FO no matter how much you try to paint it so. It was EXACTLY what they said they'd do.

Clabo we talked about also. They made a very good offer and he really didn't want to come. The analysts, before he had even decided, had all stated that this would probably not be about money. They were correct.

The record for FAs is less than stellar, but I'm not going to pin past decisions on this FO. They got Merriman here and so far he's looking pretty good. That's a plus for them and something I'm sure you'll ignore. You're like the Patti of the BZ...you revel on bad news and ignore anything good.

It's the same old excuse: "we don't want to overpay." For YEARS, the FO has drilled it into our heads that spending money is bad. Bad bad bad. After all, the Redskins spent money and it got them nowhere, right?

Meanwhile, we're sitting on some ungodly amount of cap space. I could buy the "we don't want to overpay" argument if we were actually using that cap space to improve the team in other areas, but we're not. If Poz was really worth keeping, the money was there to do it.

And yes, before you say it, I'd be pissed if the FO gave Poz the contract that Jacksonville did. But again, regardless of my personal feelings on Poz, at least then the FO would have stuck to their guns and kept the player that they said the wanted.

And do you even READ my posts? I mentioned Poz, Clabo, Burnett, D Edwards, Green, Torbor and Davis. Those were all actions by the CURRENT FO. I didn't mention one thing done by the previous FO. This is just a red herring argument to make it seem like my criticism is off base when it is actually quite apt.

Ignore anything good? The only thing good is results, and so far we don't have any.

[mysticsoto]

It's the same old excuse: "we don't want to overpay." For YEARS, the FO has drilled it into our heads that spending money is bad. Bad bad bad. After all, the Redskins spent money and it got them nowhere, right?

Meanwhile, we're sitting on some ungodly amount of cap space. I could buy the "we don't want to overpay" argument if we were actually using that cap space to improve the team in other areas, but we're not. If Poz was really worth keeping, the money was there to do it.

And yes, before you say it, I'd be pissed if the FO gave Poz the contract that Jacksonville did. But again, regardless of my personal feelings on Poz, at least then the FO would have stuck to their guns and kept the player that they said the wanted.

And do you even READ my posts? I mentioned Poz, Clabo, Burnett, D Edwards, Green, Torbor and Davis. Those were all actions by the CURRENT FO. I didn't mention one thing done by the previous FO. This is just a red herring argument to make it seem like my criticism is off base when it is actually quite apt.

Ignore anything good? The only thing good is results, and so far we don't have any.

I addressed Poz & Clabo which were two of the more prominent people you were whining about in previous threads. Now you basically bring up any and everybody b'cse your position is weakening. What about these others??? They are role players.

Good? What have you said that is good? Ever??? Dareus was a good pick and all you could do is whine that it was a no brainer. Jasper was a good find and a hell of a prospect. Getting Merriman in here was good and helped attract Barnett. Troup looks much improved. Oh, but you want results? Well then you have to wait to the season starts. So, STFU and wait until it starts then so we can see a much improved defense. And yes, the offense is going to be the same mediocre offense we had last yr. But defense improvement is improvement - and I'm sure you won't acknowledge it.

[OpIv37]

I addressed Poz & Clabo which were two of the more prominent people you were whining about in previous threads. Now you basically bring up any and everybody b'cse your position is weakening. What about these others??? They are role players.

Good? What have you said that is good? Ever??? Dareus was a good pick and all you could do is whine that it was a no brainer. Jasper was a good find and a hell of a prospect. Getting Merriman in here was good and helped attract Barnett. Troup looks much improved. Oh, but you want results? Well then you have to wait to the season starts. So, STFU and wait until it starts then so we can see a much improved defense. And yes, the offense is going to be the same mediocre offense we had last yr. But defense improvement is improvement - and I'm sure you won't acknowledge it.

Poz: "We didn't want to overpay."
Clabo: "No one wants to come here."

Same old excuses. It's never the FO's fault. Somehow, our opponents always manage to improve via FA and we just spin our wheels, but it's not the FO's fault. There's simply nothing they can do to improve the situation, ever, because there's always some BS excuse as to why it was out of their control.

Dareus is a rookie who has done nothing yet. Jasper has looked good in camp? WOW! Please don't make me go down the list of guys who looked good in camp and then fail to even make the team. Merriman hasn't proven he can come back from injury. I don't understand why everyone's all up on Troup's nuts because I didn't see much improvement from him over the course of the season.

We are supposed to be rebuilding. That means slowly getting better. In this FO's first year, what position did we get better at? I'm not talking about going from 6-10 to the SB. I'm simply saying this: give me 1 position that we got better at as a result of this current FO's actions from 2009 to 2010. We got better play from our QB and WR's, but they were the same guys already on the roster when this FO took over. And if you're not going to let me blame the previous FO, I'm certainly not going to let you give credit based on the previous FO.

This FO wasted an entire year of rebuilding. We got better at ZERO positions last year. And this year, we are depending solely on rookies and player improvement. Does this have a little bit of a "broken record" feel to it? It should, because we've been through this routine several times in the last decade.

STFU until the season starts? No. This FO has already been entrenched for well over a year. They got zero results last year, and I'm less than impressed by the moves they've made this year. We don't have an improved defense yet- just unproven rookies and 2nd year guys, and one vet coming off injury.

And you say that I won't acknowledge an improved defense? That's not entirely true. An improved defense is worthless if we don't get more wins. No more partial credit. No more credit for effort. Credit is only given for results.

[mysticsoto]

Poz: "We didn't want to overpay."
Clabo: "No one wants to come here."

Same old excuses. It's never the FO's fault. Somehow, our opponents always manage to improve via FA and we just spin our wheels, but it's not the FO's fault. There's simply nothing they can do to improve the situation, ever, because there's always some BS excuse as to why it was out of their control.

Dareus is a rookie who has done nothing yet. Jasper has looked good in camp? WOW! Please don't make me go down the list of guys who looked good in camp and then fail to even make the team. Merriman hasn't proven he can come back from injury. I don't understand why everyone's all up on Troup's nuts because I didn't see much improvement from him over the course of the season.

We are supposed to be rebuilding. That means slowly getting better. In this FO's first year, what position did we get better at? I'm not talking about going from 6-10 to the SB. I'm simply saying this: give me 1 position that we got better at as a result of this current FO's actions from 2009 to 2010. We got better play from our QB and WR's, but they were the same guys already on the roster when this FO took over. And if you're not going to let me blame the previous FO, I'm certainly not going to let you give credit based on the previous FO.

This FO wasted an entire year of rebuilding. We got better at ZERO positions last year. And this year, we are depending solely on rookies and player improvement. Does this have a little bit of a "broken record" feel to it? It should, because we've been through this routine several times in the last decade.

STFU until the season starts? No. This FO has already been entrenched for well over a year. They got zero results last year, and I'm less than impressed by the moves they've made this year. We don't have an improved defense yet- just unproven rookies and 2nd year guys, and one vet coming off injury.

And you say that I won't acknowledge an improved defense? That's not entirely true. An improved defense is worthless if we don't get more wins. No more partial credit. No more credit for effort. Credit is only given for results.

Once again, you get it wrong:

Poz: "He's not worth overpaying for."
Clabo: "He didn't want to come here."

Say what you want about Jasper and others...I heard the same things when I came on here and told people Fred Jackson was looking good in camp and people laughed at me saying he was cannon fodder and that he would amount to nothing.

LOL! This FO has been entrenched over a year. Oooh! No way...over a year. Oh wow! A year you say? OMG...a WHOLE year? No way, no way, no way. I just can't believe it...a whole freaking year? Shut the Front Door!!! GTF outta here! Wow...

The following was a message from PBS (Personally Broadcasted Sarcasm).

[OpIv37]

Once again, you get it wrong:

Poz: "He's not worth overpaying for."
Clabo: "He didn't want to come here."

Say what you want about Jasper and others...I heard the same things when I came on here and told people Fred Jackson was looking good in camp and people laughed at me saying he was cannon fodder and that he would amount to nothing.

LOL! This FO has been entrenched over a year. Oooh! No way...over a year. Oh wow! A year you say? OMG...a WHOLE year? No way, no way, no way. I just can't believe it...a whole freaking year? Shut the Front Door!!! GTF outta here! Wow...

The following was a message from PBS (Personally Broadcasted Sarcasm).

I'm not wrong. You are making excuses. Every time the FO fails to sign or retain a FA, one of these excuses gets pulled out. I might buy it in these two particular cases if the FO generally had a good record with FA's, but they don't. No one ever wants to come here and no one is ever worth paying for. At least not in Buffalo. The rest of the league doesn't seem to have these problems, which I find strange but you find irrelevant. Hmmmm......

and there it is! the Billszone mantra of using the exception to prove the rule. For every Fred Jackson, there are 20 Constantin Ritzmann's. If you said "who?," that's my point exactly.

And again, you completely missed my point on the year. We got better at ZERO positions in a year. No one expected the Bills to win the SB last year or this year, or even have a winning record.

But we had no improvement whatsoever. NONE. And you are defending that because it's only been a year? There is NO excuse EVER to waste a whole year without showing any improvement. If you are going to defend that, then you deserve a losing team.

[mysticsoto]

I'm not wrong. You are making excuses. Every time the FO fails to sign or retain a FA, one of these excuses gets pulled out. I might buy it in these two particular cases if the FO generally had a good record with FA's, but they don't. No one ever wants to come here and no one is ever worth paying for. At least not in Buffalo. The rest of the league doesn't seem to have these problems, which I find strange but you find irrelevant. Hmmmm......

and there it is! the Billszone mantra of using the exception to prove the rule. For every Fred Jackson, there are 20 Constantin Ritzmann's. If you said "who?," that's my point exactly.

And again, you completely missed my point on the year. We got better at ZERO positions in a year. No one expected the Bills to win the SB last year or this year, or even have a winning record.

But we had no improvement whatsoever. NONE. And you are defending that because it's only been a year? There is NO excuse EVER to waste a whole year without showing any improvement. If you are going to defend that, then you deserve a losing team.
I disagree that we've gotten better at ZERO positions. And given that we haven't even played - that's an assertion that you really can't back up!!!

Oh, and given that this FO has ONLY been here for a year, I'd say bringing in Merriman was a big deal. As such, they are more in the positive than the negative. Of course, you'll just want to lump all the FOs in together b'cse it helps your irrational need to be negative.

[better days]

I'm not wrong. You are making excuses. Every time the FO fails to sign or retain a FA, one of these excuses gets pulled out. I might buy it in these two particular cases if the FO generally had a good record with FA's, but they don't. No one ever wants to come here and no one is ever worth paying for. At least not in Buffalo. The rest of the league doesn't seem to have these problems, which I find strange but you find irrelevant. Hmmmm......

and there it is! the Billszone mantra of using the exception to prove the rule. For every Fred Jackson, there are 20 Constantin Ritzmann's. If you said "who?," that's my point exactly.

And again, you completely missed my point on the year. We got better at ZERO positions in a year. No one expected the Bills to win the SB last year or this year, or even have a winning record.

But we had no improvement whatsoever. NONE. And you are defending that because it's only been a year? There is NO excuse EVER to waste a whole year without showing any improvement. If you are going to defend that, then you deserve a losing team.

Just as you say the rookies have not proven that they can play, they also have not proven they can not play. You can add Merriman into that as well. Nobody knows yet if he can play or not. Stay tuned.

[EDS]

Oh ok, bring him in he can **** with our team now. Just what a young, building team needs!
At age 32 (which means he'll be 34 by the time the Bills are a contender, if then) he can hit the wall at any time, and this incident makes sooner more likely than later. With his age already a strike against him, his attitude and big fat ass rule him out.
The Patriots can take on red flags because they can still win now either way, and one more year squeezed out of an aging vet, who's motivated by playing for a proven winner, may put them over the top. The Bills, obviously, are not the Patriots.

I agree that an aging veteran does not make a lot of sense for a rebuilding team. Of course, the teams main free agent acquisition was a 30 year old linebacker coming off a serious issue, so I am guessing the Bills front office was using different logic when filling out the offensive line.

[OpIv37]

I disagree that we've gotten better at ZERO positions. And given that we haven't even played - that's an assertion that you really can't back up!!!

Oh, and given that this FO has ONLY been here for a year, I'd say bringing in Merriman was a big deal. As such, they are more in the positive than the negative. Of course, you'll just want to lump all the FOs in together b'cse it helps your irrational need to be negative.

First, I said the zero positions from 2009 to 2010, so we HAVE played. The FO had a full off-season to make improvements. No one expected them to fix every problem, but let's start by fixing one or two. They failed to even do do that. So yes, that assertion is ABSOLUTELY backed up.

Wait a second... you say my assertion can't be backed up because they haven't played yet, and then you give them credit for bringing in Merriman, who hasn't taken a snap for the Bills yet. How can you say hes' a big deal when he hasn't even been on the field? You just completely contradicted yourself.

And again, show me one place in this thread where I mentioned anything done by any previous FO. You just continue to make this red herring argument that I blame previous FO's when I've been doing nothing but discussing the current FO.

And again, no one has the "need" to be negative. The reality is that this team is in a negative situation, and I don't know how you can call that irrational when we continue to suck on the field.

[Philagape]

I agree that an aging veteran does not make a lot of sense for a rebuilding team. Of course, the teams main free agent acquisition was a 30 year old linebacker coming off a serious issue, so I am guessing the Bills front office was using different logic when filling out the offensive line.

My cutoff for free agents I wanted was over 30, so Barnett made it just under the wire. I'm not counting on him to stay healthy, but at least he has some professional integrity and championship pedigree.

[mysticsoto]

First, I said the zero positions from 2009 to 2010, so we HAVE played. The FO had a full off-season to make improvements. No one expected them to fix every problem, but let's start by fixing one or two. They failed to even do do that. So yes, that assertion is ABSOLUTELY backed up.

Wait a second... you say my assertion can't be backed up because they haven't played yet, and then you give them credit for bringing in Merriman, who hasn't taken a snap for the Bills yet. How can you say hes' a big deal when he hasn't even been on the field? You just completely contradicted yourself.

And again, show me one place in this thread where I mentioned anything done by any previous FO. You just continue to make this red herring argument that I blame previous FO's when I've been doing nothing but discussing the current FO.

And again, no one has the "need" to be negative. The reality is that this team is in a negative situation, and I don't know how you can call that irrational when we continue to suck on the field.

Merriman has proven what he can do. He's not an unknown entity like rookies can be. Besides, I've been to training camp, I've seen him. WGR can't stop talking about him - so much so, that when they refer to TC, they are now calling it the Shawne Merriman Show.

And I still don't see what the hell you are talking about with not improving any position. They addressed the Run Defense during the offseason which was the biggest problem of the team. That's why I pretty much ignore you when you say things like "Nothing has improved" or "They've made no effort". Yes, they have. You just can't see it b'cse if someone even breaks a nail, you are all over it, but yet can't see what has been done up to now to try and improve. All you can do is focus on contradictions like they should let Poz Go/but they're wrong for doing so, blah, blah, blah.

[EDS]

My cutoff for free agents I wanted was over 30, so Barnett made it just under the wire. I'm not counting on him to stay healthy, but at least he has some professional integrity and championship pedigree.

He has a ring but since he was injured all season it is hard to believe he will bring any of the championship mentality to the Bills.

To me it seems odd that, given the Bills are a rebuilding team, that as of right now the starting defense is likely to have 7 30+ year olds (Edwards, Kelsay, Torbor, Barnett, Florence, McGee and Wilson) to start the season.

Indeed, the only certain starter from the past TWO draft classes is Dareus, and he was the 3rd pick in the draft so it would be embarassing if he could not start on a 4-12 team.

[OpIv37]

Merriman has proven what he can do. He's not an unknown entity like rookies can be. Besides, I've been to training camp, I've seen him. WGR can't stop talking about him - so much so, that when they refer to TC, they are now calling it the Shawne Merriman Show.

And I still don't see what the hell you are talking about with not improving any position. They addressed the Run Defense during the offseason which was the biggest problem of the team. That's why I pretty much ignore you when you say things like "Nothing has improved" or "They've made no effort". Yes, they have. You just can't see it b'cse if someone even breaks a nail, you are all over it, but yet can't see what has been done up to now to try and improve. All you can do is focus on contradictions like they should let Poz Go/but they're wrong for doing so, blah, blah, blah.

Actually Merriman is unproven. He hasn't done a damn thing since he came back from his injury. There is no evidence that he can stay healthy, and if he can, there is no evidence that he can be the player he once was. So, nice try.

I never said they made no effort. I said a) I won't give credit for effort, only results, and b) the effort they've made is insufficient because it relies almost exclusively on rookies and improvement from 2nd year players.

I never said they were wrong for letting Poz go. They were wrong for trying to re-sign him and incompetent for failing in their effort. The right move would have been to just let him go in the first place, or even better, traded him last year when we switched to the 3-4. There is no contradiction.

[mysticsoto]

Actually Merriman is unproven. He hasn't done a damn thing since he came back from his injury. There is no evidence that he can stay healthy, and if he can, there is no evidence that he can be the player he once was. So, nice try.

I never said they made no effort. I said a) I won't give credit for effort, only results, and b) the effort they've made is insufficient because it relies almost exclusively on rookies and improvement from 2nd year players.

I never said they were wrong for letting Poz go. They were wrong for trying to re-sign him and incompetent for failing in their effort. The right move would have been to just let him go in the first place, or even better, traded him last year when we switched to the 3-4. There is no contradiction.

If you can only give credit for effort then you need to stop whining and wait until the season starts to see what effort there is and how the changes reflect. But you don't. You whine 24/7/365 regardless.

And no, I'm not going to accept your continued repeating of something that is incorrect. The FO is NOT wrong or incompetent for setting a price that they think Poz was worth and not going over it when his price rose. They did the right thing in letting him go when his price rose. Plain and simple. Any other view is just a negative nancy desperation view to pin something negative on exactly what should have been done. They did the correct thing. If you want to criticize them for not throwing MORE money at Clabo, that can be justified I suppose (as long as you don't then complain about overpaying). Not going after Kaczur - not sure why they aren't, but that may be justified also. Letting Poz walk - Bzzzt! Nope, that was the right thing to do. PERIOD!

[better days]

It's the same old excuse: "we don't want to overpay." For YEARS, the FO has drilled it into our heads that spending money is bad. Bad bad bad. After all, the Redskins spent money and it got them nowhere, right?

Meanwhile, we're sitting on some ungodly amount of cap space. I could buy the "we don't want to overpay" argument if we were actually using that cap space to improve the team in other areas, but we're not. If Poz was really worth keeping, the money was there to do it.

And yes, before you say it, I'd be pissed if the FO gave Poz the contract that Jacksonville did. But again, regardless of my personal feelings on Poz, at least then the FO would have stuck to their guns and kept the player that they said the wanted.

And do you even READ my posts? I mentioned Poz, Clabo, Burnett, D Edwards, Green, Torbor and Davis. Those were all actions by the CURRENT FO. I didn't mention one thing done by the previous FO. This is just a red herring argument to make it seem like my criticism is off base when it is actually quite apt.

Ignore anything good? The only thing good is results, and so far we don't have any.

For years, the Bills have overpaid on guys like Dockery & Walker. This front office will no longer do that, which is a good thing IMO.

[OpIv37]

If you can only give credit for effort then you need to stop whining and wait until the season starts to see what effort there is and how the changes reflect. But you don't. You whine 24/7/365 regardless.

And no, I'm not going to accept your continued repeating of something that is incorrect. The FO is NOT wrong or incompetent for setting a price that they think Poz was worth and not going over it when his price rose. They did the right thing in letting him go when his price rose. Plain and simple. Any other view is just a negative nancy desperation view to pin something negative on exactly what should have been done. They did the correct thing. If you want to criticize them for not throwing MORE money at Clabo, that can be justified I suppose (as long as you don't then complain about overpaying). Not going after Kaczur - not sure why they aren't, but that may be justified also. Letting Poz walk - Bzzzt! Nope, that was the right thing to do. PERIOD!

They got no results last year.

And no, I'm not going to accept your continued BS justification as to why it was acceptable for the FO to fail in attempting to re-sign Poz. They failed, and any other view is just a desperate attempt to defend the FO and avoid the reality that they are looking pretty damn incompetent. You show me that the Bills did something effective with that cap money that they saved by not re-signing Poz, and I'll change my opinion. Until then, it's just another Buffalo cop-out.

And btw, you argued with me incessantly when I wanted to let Poz walk from the onset. You told me it was the wrong move. But then they attempted to re-sign him, failed, and now letting him walk was the right move? Basically, no matter what the FO did in that situation they would have been right in your eyes. You just simply refuse to see any evidence that suggests this FO is as incompetent as the previous FO's.

You accuse me of being the "negative nancy" but you set it up so the FO can't fail in your eyes. And if they somehow manage to fail anyway, you have a list of excuses as to why it wasn't their fault.

[justasportsfan]

It's the same old excuse: "we don't want to overpay." For YEARS, the FO has drilled it into our heads that spending money is bad. Bad bad bad. After all, the Redskins spent money and it got them nowhere, right?

.

the ironic thing is that we overpaid for a REDSKIN OL player and made him the richest player in franchise history and OP was all for it. Thank you Dockery!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

the ironic thing is that we overpaid for a REDSKIN OL player and made him the richest player in franchise history and OP was all for it. Thank you Dockery!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, the Bills failed on one FA so they should never sign another one, ever. Makes perfect sense.....

[justasportsfan]

So, the Bills failed on one FA so they should never sign another one, ever. Makes perfect sense.....

I wasn't talking about the FO, I was talking about you chasing your own tail

[OpIv37]

I wasn't talking about the FO, I was talking about you chasing your own tail

How is it chasing my own tail.

Obviously spending money for the sake of spending money is bad, but spending money CORRECTLY can greatly help the team. Due to the Redskins and a few past FA failures, the Bills are reluctant to spend any money at all. They've essentially taken a method for improving the team off the table.

But for years, Russ Brandon's PR machine at OBD has been drilling it into our heads that spending money=bad, so you can't see it.

[mysticsoto]

They got no results last year.

And no, I'm not going to accept your continued BS justification as to why it was acceptable for the FO to fail in attempting to re-sign Poz. They failed, and any other view is just a desperate attempt to defend the FO and avoid the reality that they are looking pretty damn incompetent. You show me that the Bills did something effective with that cap money that they saved by not re-signing Poz, and I'll change my opinion. Until then, it's just another Buffalo cop-out.

And btw, you argued with me incessantly when I wanted to let Poz walk from the onset. You told me it was the wrong move. But then they attempted to re-sign him, failed, and now letting him walk was the right move? Basically, no matter what the FO did in that situation they would have been right in your eyes. You just simply refuse to see any evidence that suggests this FO is as incompetent as the previous FO's.

You accuse me of being the "negative nancy" but you set it up so the FO can't fail in your eyes. And if they somehow manage to fail anyway, you have a list of excuses as to why it wasn't their fault.

You're wrong and have too big an ego to admit it. I get it. Others have pointed out your hypocrisy too with this Poz issue. The FO is damned if they do, damned if they don't. They very definition of hypocrisy.

As for me, don't put words in my mouth. You can go back and read what I said and this time read it carefully. I said if they can get Poz to stay for a cheap price, they should. He's not terrible. BUT...I said if the price rises too high - let him go. They did and they did the right thing. You are the only one *****ing about what they did even though somehow in your hypocrisy, you think it was the right thing also, but feel the need to slam them anyway. Not only that, but they replaced him with someone better suited for our type of defense. Any kudos from you for them addressing this? No. Hypocrisy and whining is what we get...foaming at the mouth.

Of course the FO can fail. I've slammed them before for what I think was a bad pick in Spiller. But I also give them credit when credit is due. Something that you don't do...EVER! I like what they did with the D this year and look forward to seeing a better run defense. According to you, we haven't improved so we'll be 4-12 again next year. And if that's the case, you should be happy, as we would be in the sweepstakes for Luck. Wait, Op be happy? What am I saying? You'll find fault with Luck somehow also...

[Figster]

At 400 lbs he is most definitely NOT better than Bell. If he were close to his playing weight (335 lbs) I'd say yeah, let's grab him. 65 lbs heavier than his normal playing weight is not something you can just shrug your shoulders at and act like it's no big deal.

I wouldn't object to bringing him in at half his asking price with some weight incentives that can increase his salary if he loses most of that weight and can get some playing time throughout the year.

But while people like Jasper, Troup, etc are working hard to put on muscle weight along with Merriman showing a strong work ethic for the younger guys, we don't need a fat slob on the team who just wants to get some last easy paydays before retiring. If that's McKinnie's mentality right now, then I'd rather not have him on board.

Its the 1st time in Mckinnies entire career that he came into camp physically unfit for any reason. McKinnie is an iron man when it comes to not missing football games. By all accounts McKinnie is a very gifted athlete. What makes you think Bryant McKinnie doesn't want to win a championship before he retires. What makes you think McKinnie won't keep doing his job like he has been throughout his entire career. What makes you think McKinnie won't be playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Coming into camp overweight is not a good thing by no means, but losing the weight in my opinion would not be a problem for Bryant McKinnie, nor would doing his job effectively.

Bottom line is the Buffalo Bills need to protect the QB to become a better football team. The Bills need to be able to run the ball effectively to become a better footbal team,

and it all starts up front...

[mysticsoto]

Its the 1st time in Mckinnies entire career that he came into camp physically unfit for any reason. McKinnie is an iron man when it comes to not missing football games. By all accounts McKinnie is a very gifted athlete. What makes you think Bryant McKinnie doesn't want to win a championship before he retires. What makes you think McKinnie won't keep doing his job like he has been throughout his entire career. What makes you think McKinnie won't be playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Coming into camp overweight is not a good thing by no means, but losing the weight in my opinion would not be a problem for Bryant McKinnie, nor would doing his job effectively.

Bottom line is the Buffalo Bills need to protect the QB to become a better football team. The Bills need to be able to run the ball effectively to become a better footbal team,

and it all starts up front...

For the main reason that he stated (before being drafted that he didn't want to come to Buffalo). Has he changed his mind? I don't know, maybe he's mellowed in his old age. But I don't want someone here who just wants to collect a paycheck and not work.

I already said that McKinnie has had a very good career. What I don't like is that you dismiss that extra weight like it's nothing. The regular season is what? A month away? You can't lose 65 lbs that quickly (atleast not in a healthy way). And he knows when he showed up to camp that he shouldn't be this big...so why is he? The translation/net effect is to show that he really doesn't care anymore. We play in a tough division with the Jets and Patriots. How is a 400 lb guy supposed to do anything against their top rushers? They will run circles around him.

Like I said, if he's willing to take less until he loses the weight and is willing to play back up and until he can take the job from Bell (and of course willing to play in Buffalo) I'm all for it. But as he is right now, there's no way he's going to be faster or more athletic than Bell at close to 400 lbs. I took a good look at Bell in training camp and he's not thick at all. He's probably in the low 300s. McKinnie is not going to be able to move anywhere close to fast enough to handle a speed rusher. Even Maybin would probably run circles around him...

[Figster]

For the main reason that he stated (before being drafted that he didn't want to come to Buffalo). Has he changed his mind? I don't know, maybe he's mellowed in his old age. But I don't want someone here who just wants to collect a paycheck and not work.

I already said that McKinnie has had a very good career. What I don't like is that you dismiss that extra weight like it's nothing. The regular season is what? A month away? You can't lose 65 lbs that quickly (atleast not in a healthy way). And he knows when he showed up to camp that he shouldn't be this big...so why is he? The translation/net effect is to show that he really doesn't care anymore. We play in a tough division with the Jets and Patriots. How is a 400 lb guy supposed to do anything against their top rushers? They will run circles around him.

Like I said, if he's willing to take less until he loses the weight and is willing to play back up and until he can take the job from Bell (and of course willing to play in Buffalo) I'm all for it. But as he is right now, there's no way he's going to be faster or more athletic than Bell at close to 400 lbs. I took a good look at Bell in training camp and he's not thick at all. He's probably in the low 300s. McKinnie is not going to be able to move anywhere close to fast enough to handle a speed rusher. Even Maybin would probably run circles around him...

You keep making comparisons like McKinnie is going to stay at 400 lbs which is simply not the case.

[mysticsoto]

You keep making comparisons like McKinnie is going to stay at 400 lbs which is simply not the case.

It takes time to lose 65 lbs in a healthy way. Even if he worked out every day (which if he was so disciplined and strong willed, he never would have gotten that big to begin with). At best, you could expect him to return to his normal playing weight around November time frame. Atleast half the season is gone...which is why I have a contention on paying him the full salary he'd want when he wouldn't be available until late into the season to possibly contribute.

But it should be noted that if Bell were to get hurt, we'd become desperate enough to probably have to pay him regardless. Especially since Bell's backup is Wang and Wang is crap. I said that when we 1st drafted him...

[OpIv37]

You're wrong and have too big an ego to admit it. I get it. Others have pointed out your hypocrisy too with this Poz issue. The FO is damned if they do, damned if they don't. They very definition of hypocrisy.

As for me, don't put words in my mouth. You can go back and read what I said and this time read it carefully. I said if they can get Poz to stay for a cheap price, they should. He's not terrible. BUT...I said if the price rises too high - let him go. They did and they did the right thing. You are the only one *****ing about what they did even though somehow in your hypocrisy, you think it was the right thing also, but feel the need to slam them anyway. Not only that, but they replaced him with someone better suited for our type of defense. Any kudos from you for them addressing this? No. Hypocrisy and whining is what we get...foaming at the mouth.

Of course the FO can fail. I've slammed them before for what I think was a bad pick in Spiller. But I also give them credit when credit is due. Something that you don't do...EVER! I like what they did with the D this year and look forward to seeing a better run defense. According to you, we haven't improved so we'll be 4-12 again next year. And if that's the case, you should be happy, as we would be in the sweepstakes for Luck. Wait, Op be happy? What am I saying? You'll find fault with Luck somehow also...

FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME THERE IS NO HYPOCRISY ON THE POZ ISSUE. Disagree with me all you want, but do NOT call me a hypocrite. You are intellectually incapable of separating my opinion from the actions of the FO. The FO would NOT have been damned- IMO, anyway, if they had just let Poz walk in the first place. They damned themselves when they attempted to resign him. The fact that they failed to sign him shows their incompetence- the fact that I wanted them to fail on that signing does not alleviate them of their incompetence.

You keep harping on this "right price" thing but you haven't addressed the fact that they have done NOTHING with the money that they saved. Why are you so protective of Ralph's pockets? If the money saved isn't used to improve the team, it's no good to us.

And do you not read anything I say? I want to WIN. Why the hell would I be happy with 4-12?

[mysticsoto]

FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME THERE IS NO HYPOCRISY ON THE POZ ISSUE. Disagree with me all you want, but do NOT call me a hypocrite. You are intellectually incapable of separating my opinion from the actions of the FO. The FO would NOT have been damned- IMO, anyway, if they had just let Poz walk in the first place. They damned themselves when they attempted to resign him. The fact that they failed to sign him shows their incompetence- the fact that I wanted them to fail on that signing does not alleviate them of their incompetence.

You keep harping on this "right price" thing but you haven't addressed the fact that they have done NOTHING with the money that they saved. Why are you so protective of Ralph's pockets? If the money saved isn't used to improve the team, it's no good to us.

And do you not read anything I say? I want to WIN. Why the hell would I be happy with 4-12?

Again, saying something doesn't make it so. You are a hypocrite b'cse you flip flop on 2 sides of a coin. You can't be happy the FO dumps Poz, but then angry that they did. The reason you are is b'cse you are a hypocrite and b'cse you are discounting the very obvious and important piece of following the "right price" directive which they did. The fact that they've done nothing with that saved money is not an indication that the decision was wrong in anyway and it is therefore irrelevant to the praising of that decision. And I have yet to see you say anything positive about the FO in getting a LB that is more geared toward the def we run...but I guess I'm right and you are just not capable of that.

[OpIv37]

Again, saying something doesn't make it so. You are a hypocrite b'cse you flip flop on 2 sides of a coin. You can't be happy the FO dumps Poz, but then angry that they did. The reason you are is b'cse you are a hypocrite and b'cse you are discounting the very obvious and important piece of following the "right price" directive which they did. The fact that they've done nothing with that saved money is not an indication that the decision was wrong in anyway and it is therefore irrelevant to the praising of that decision. And I have yet to see you say anything positive about the FO in getting a LB that is more geared toward the def we run...but I guess I'm right and you are just not capable of that.

Here's the problem: I never flip-flopped because the FO never dumped Poz. "Dumping" him means cutting him if he's under contract or not attempting to re-sign him when his contract is up. If it were up to the FO, they'd still have Poz. That was mistake #1.

Mistake #2 is that they failed to re-sign him. You fail to see this as a problem because of the "right price" issue, but the fact that they've done absolutely nothing with that money IS an indication that they decision was wrong. They didn't get a player that they wanted to get in order to save money, then they did nothing with the saved money. So, now we have no player AND unused cap space going to waste.

How can you not see a problem with that?

As far as getting a LB better suited for our D:
1. We should have done that last year
2. If it were up to the FO, we'd have Poz instead of Barnett- they just lucked out that Jax overbid them for Poz.

Is it an upgrade? Yes, but it's one that happened in spite of the FO, not because of them.

[paladin warrior]

How about trade Maybin and get 0-LINE

[mysticsoto]

Here's the problem: I never flip-flopped because the FO never dumped Poz. "Dumping" him means cutting him if he's under contract or not attempting to re-sign him when his contract is up. If it were up to the FO, they'd still have Poz. That was mistake #1.

Mistake #2 is that they failed to re-sign him. You fail to see this as a problem because of the "right price" issue, but the fact that they've done absolutely nothing with that money IS an indication that they decision was wrong. They didn't get a player that they wanted to get in order to save money, then they did nothing with the saved money. So, now we have no player AND unused cap space going to waste.

How can you not see a problem with that?

As far as getting a LB better suited for our D:
1. We should have done that last year
2. If it were up to the FO, we'd have Poz instead of Barnett- they just lucked out that Jax overbid them for Poz.

Is it an upgrade? Yes, but it's one that happened in spite of the FO, not because of them.

LOL! So let me get this straight...Mistake #1 is that Poz contract was up this year and they just didn't sign him - as opposed to actually cutting him...So...b'cse his contract was up and they couldn't cut him...this is a mistake that should be attributed to them?

Please anybody...jump in if that doesn't sound ******ed to you???

Mistake #2 is nowhere near a mistake. Why don't you look around Op? This is done by ALL TEAMS ALL THE TIME!!! You sign people at a price you feel comfortable with for the skillset of that player. The Patriots tried to do that with Kaczur - when he wouldn't take a cut, they cut him. He's not necessarily a bad player (though maybe he's hurt or something else) - but all teams give a valuation of what they think a player is worth. Don't know why you are saying we have no player...we have Barnett who we got cheaper and who fits the scheme more. And instead of giving them credit - which any normal person would do, you are lambasting them for what amounts to an upgrade.

Unbelievable...

[X-Era]

No matter how many times you repeat it will NOT make it true Op. I already corrected your incorrect statement, and just b'cse you continue to ignore the correction and repeat your incorrect version is not going to change that.

The Bills wanted to keep Poz AT A CERTAIN PRICE. The price was exceeded. They let him go. Period! That's not a failure of the FO no matter how much you try to paint it so. It was EXACTLY what they said they'd do.

Clabo we talked about also. They made a very good offer and he really didn't want to come. The analysts, before he had even decided, had all stated that this would probably not be about money. They were correct.

The record for FAs is less than stellar, but I'm not going to pin past decisions on this FO. They got Merriman here and so far he's looking pretty good. That's a plus for them and something I'm sure you'll ignore. You're like the Patti of the BZ...you revel on bad news and ignore anything good.By everything I read Mystic, that's not true. Nix himself said it wasn't the money. Why can't it just be that he wanted to play for a 4-3 team?

http://wgr550.com/Bills-GM-Nix-Says-They-Gave-Posluszny--Competitive/10464291

And why is it that we can't pin FA on this FO? The Bills should have been able to look at Pears and Urbik and realized that isn't good enough. Judging by them missing out on Clabo, it looks like they felt the same way. Well, just because you didn't land one guy doesn't mean a) the problem went away, and b) there is no one else who could help the situation.

They have plenty of cap room and didn't go after anyone else. Now, the well may be so dry that no one can really help. But even now, there may be guys who could help and we haven't done anything. Not a visit, not a medical eval, nothing.

They choose not to compete in this phase Mystic, Nix tells us that, the situation tells us that. And at some level the on the field product suffers. This is a 4 and 12 team and it ought to be unacceptable. The record over the past decade speaks for itself. If you could build through the draft, what happened? If you can win without competing in FA, what happened?

We have the coaching and some pieces, but were missing pieces and every off-season we lose some more but add some. But never enough to get us over the hump.

[mysticsoto]

By everything I read Mystic, that's not true. Nix himself said it wasn't the money. Why can't it just be that he wanted to play for a 4-3 team?

http://wgr550.com/Bills-GM-Nix-Says-They-Gave-Posluszny--Competitive/10464291

And why is it that we can't pin FA on this FO? The Bills should have been able to look at Pears and Urbik and realized that isn't good enough. Judging by them missing out on Clabo, it looks like they felt the same way. Well, just because you didn't land one guy doesn't mean a) the problem went away, and b) there is no one else who could help the situation.

They have plenty of cap room and didn't go after anyone else. Now, the well may be so dry that no one can really help. But even now, there may be guys who could help and we haven't done anything. Not a visit, not a medical eval, nothing.

They choose not to compete in this phase Mystic, Nix tells us that, the situation tells us that. And at some level the on the field product suffers. This is a 4 and 12 team and it ought to be unacceptable. The record over the past decade speaks for itself. If you could build through the draft, what happened? If you can win without competing in FA, what happened?

We have the coaching and some pieces, but were missing pieces and every off-season we lose some more but add some. But never enough to get us over the hump.

If Poz wanted to play for a 4-3 team then he made that choice (entirely possible). I still don't see why the FO should get blamed like Op wants to do.

Nobody is doing anything right now. I think teams are waiting to see who will get released in the round of cuts coming...

And the fact that they are trying to shop Maybin (and/or Evans) may mean they are looking to cut a trade/deal for someone. They won't get anything for Maybin, but Evans might get us something...

I'd still like to know what's wrong with Kaczur and why teams aren't going after him. Where's PatMoran when you need him with his contacts???

[X-Era]

If Poz wanted to play for a 4-3 team then he made that choice (entirely possible). I still don't see why the FO should get blamed like Op wants to do.

Nobody is doing anything right now. I think teams are waiting to see who will get released in the round of cuts coming...

And the fact that they are trying to shop Maybin (and/or Evans) may mean they are looking to cut a trade/deal for someone. They won't get anything for Maybin, but Evans might get us something...

I'd still like to know what's wrong with Kaczur and why teams aren't going after him. Where's PatMoran when you need him with his contacts???Basically, It looks like you're saying you still hold out hope that they will address some more needs. That's entirely possible. But if they don't will you agree that the FO is to blame?

[bf1]

Bumbling Buddy is at the helm. That's why.

[mysticsoto]

Basically, It looks like you're saying you still hold out hope that they will address some more needs. That's entirely possible. But if they don't will you agree that the FO is to blame?

I suppose that's fair...though what's really left? Other than Kaczur I don't like Max Starks or any of the other choices you've listed elsewhere. McKinnie may not want to come here and even if he does, likely won't be ready until the 2nd half of the season at the very least. The only other option is to trade...what do you think of Ramon Harewood (backup LT) from the Ravens?

[better days]

How is it chasing my own tail.

Obviously spending money for the sake of spending money is bad, but spending money CORRECTLY can greatly help the team. Due to the Redskins and a few past FA failures, the Bills are reluctant to spend any money at all. They've essentially taken a method for improving the team off the table.

But for years, Russ Brandon's PR machine at OBD has been drilling it into our heads that spending money=bad, so you can't see it.

Well, according to what you have posted in the past, spending MONEY on Poz would NOT have been spending money correctly.

[Captain Obvious]

I want to WIN.

Can you honestly say you wanted the Bills to beat the Lions last year when before the season you predicted the Lions would beat the Bills?

[acehole]

What might be lost in this debate is scheme.

We are going for West coast hybrid/wildcat.

Denver was able to do what they do with a zone blocking sceme...
Tiny Olinemen.

This created big holes as well as enough time to pass.

Although we didn't sign big names there we have some decent interior linemen for this scheme.

I am not advocating OLINE doesn't mater....
I am saying it maters less in our scheme.
A big name LT is not necessarily going to
have to hold a block for a Lee Evans to get
open 40 yards down field. We have tried this
before but we lacked QB to run it. We are also
peppering in the wildcat which thrives on and
even excels when Dlinemen penetrate.

We shall see.

[X-Era]

What might be lost in this debate is scheme.

We are going for West coast hybrid/wildcat.

Denver was able to do what they do with a zone blocking sceme...
Tiny Olinemen.

This created big holes as well as enough time to pass.

Although we didn't sign big names there we have some decent interior linemen for this scheme.

I am not advocating OLINE doesn't mater....
I am saying it maters less in our scheme.
A big name LT is not necessarily going to
have to hold a block for a Lee Evans to get
open 40 yards down field. We have tried this
before but we lacked QB to run it. We are also
peppering in the wildcat which thrives on and
even excels when Dlinemen penetrate.

We shall see.I don't disagree with this take. It could very well be that we devalue the positions because of the current scheme. But, Pears and Urbik aren't good enough in any scheme IMO.

[JCBills]

Dude, what you are implying would be the most ******ed thing ever. Your implying that the Bill are fixing one thing at a time and now they are working on the D. That just plain silly. This would be 5th graders way of fixing he Bills and it wouldn't work. Each draft has its blue chippers, and its strengths and weaknesses and a good FO will go with Best Applicable Player Available. You would not overlook a stud LineMan because your working on the D, that just plain dumb.

Is that what I said? No.

Yes, it is a balance of need and BPA. So, now for all of the clowns crying over Nix & Co. not addressing the line, with draft strategy taken into consideration, you have no argument. There appears to be a lack of comprehension.

[JCBills]

Bumbling Buddy is at the helm. That's why.

If turning a joke of a team into a perennial playoff contender makes someone "bumbling", then that's quite the title to have received.

[acehole]

Point taken.


I don't disagree with this take. It could very well be that we devalue the positions because of the current scheme. But, Pears and Urbik aren't good enough in any scheme IMO.

[EDS]

If turning a joke of a team into a perennial playoff contender makes someone "bumbling", then that's quite the title to have received.

When did Buddy do that?

[dasaybz]

Is that what I said? No.

Yes, it is a balance of need and BPA. So, now for all of the clowns crying over Nix & Co. not addressing the line, with draft strategy taken into consideration, you have no argument. There appears to be a lack of comprehension.
Seems to me that the only people who are clowns are the ones defending how this line was put together, and not addressed properly.

[acehole]

Seems to me that the only people who are clowns are the ones defending how this line was put together, and not addressed properly.


Interior guys are fine....

Tackle depth a problem.

[JCBills]

When did Buddy do that?

"San Diego. Drink it in, it always goes down smooth."

- Ron Burgundy

[EDS]

"San Diego. Drink it in, it always goes down smooth."

- Ron Burgundy

I didn't realize he was the GM in SD.

[better days]

When did Buddy do that?

He is in the process of doing that now.

[mysticsoto]

I'd still like to know what's wrong with Kaczur and why teams aren't going after him. Where's PatMoran when you need him with his contacts???



Lions signed OT Kirk Chambers and waived/injured OT Jeff Maddux.

The Lions are desperate for tackle help as Jeff Backus (pectoral) and Gosder Cherilus (knee) are sidelined. Chambers is a veteran with experience but is a swing tackle at best. The Lions' offensive line woes are a storyline to monitor.


You see what I mean, X-era. The Lions are even more desperate than us and still picked Kirk Chambers over Kaczur??? There's something we don't know...

[OpIv37]

Can you honestly say you wanted the Bills to beat the Lions last year when before the season you predicted the Lions would beat the Bills?

Do you understand the distinction between what one WANTS to happen and what one actually THINKS will happen?

If I play the lottery, I WANT to win, but I don't actually EXPECT it to happen.

[Captain Obvious]

Do you understand the distinction between what one WANTS to happen and what one actually THINKS will happen?

If I play the lottery, I WANT to win, but I don't actually EXPECT it to happen.

But you must have been very torn your ego wants you to be right all the time surely you were hoping the Lions would win so you would be right and not have to take guff on this board

[dasaybz]

Interior guys are fine....

Tackle depth a problem.
There are 2 guys that are average ... the rest pretty much stink. That is not addressing a problem that has been a problem for like 20 years.

[acehole]

There are 2 guys that are average ... the rest pretty much stink. That is not addressing a problem that has been a problem for like 20 years.

Indeed but Wood and Levitri and Hang are a good core of interior lineman.

Tackle are a problem.

[OpIv37]

But you must have been very torn your ego wants you to be right all the time surely you were hoping the Lions would win so you would be right and not have to take guff on this board

If I cared about not taking "guff" on this board, I'd just stop posting here.

And no, I don't want to be right so bad that I want the Bills to lose. I'd much rather be wrong. Unfortunately, I rarely am, but many people on this board- like you- insist on giving me "guff" anyway.

This is the same old bull**** that I always get on here- people can't refute the points I'm making so they go after my attitude or my ego. Unfortunately I get sucked into those conversations way more than I should.

[better days]

Seems to me that the only people who are clowns are the ones defending how this line was put together, and not addressed properly.

Seems to me some people have unrealistic expectations about how many problem areas can be fixed at a time. The Bills only have one pick per round in the draft & no team is going to let a Pro Bowl good OT get to free agency.

[doug45]

I have to say, I'm always amused when people act indignant that the FO didn't take care of something RIGHT AWAY. Because, of course, if they had addressed it then we were headed for the Super Bowl this year.


"RIGHT AWAY" It's been a decade !

[cookie G]

Seems to me some people have unrealistic expectations about how many problem areas can be fixed at a time.

Ah, the Bills rallying of the last decade.

Change defense every 3 years;
draft running back every 3 years;
draft defensive backs every other year;

Didn't someone start a thread about spinning wheels?





The Bills only have one pick per round in the draft & no team is going to let a Pro Bowl good OT get to free agency.

Interesting thought. Maybe we should consider taking ours before day 3.

[better days]

Ah, the Bills rallying of the last decade.

Change defense every 3 years;
draft running back every 3 years;
draft defensive backs every other year;

Didn't someone start a thread about spinning wheels?




Interesting thought. Maybe we should consider taking ours before day 3.

Well, who & where would you have drafted an OT this year?

[cookie G]

Well, who & where would you have drafted an OT this year?

Been through this with you a few weeks ago. Weren't you the one talking about how we'd have to give up next year's first round pick to move up 5 slots into the first round? If not, that was the guy.

BTW, the coolest match up to watch Sat. night should be Carimi vs. Dareus.
The last I heard, the Bears had Carimi at RT.

Had they met in a college bowl game, the announcers would have been all over it.

[better days]

Been through this with you a few weeks ago. Weren't you the one talking about how we'd have to give up next year's first round pick to move up 5 slots into the first round? If not, that was the guy.

BTW, the coolest match up to watch Sat. night should be Carimi vs. Dareus.
The last I heard, the Bears had Carimi at RT.

Had they met in a college bowl game, the announcers would have been all over it.

Looking Forward to the Game!!! I can't wait to see Dareus & Merriman in action.

[JCBills]

I didn't realize he was the GM in SD.

I didn't realize I said he was, because I didn't.

It is well known Nix had control over those SD drafts.

And the Chargers didn't get to where they are with big name FA pickups. They drafted well year after year.

[X-Era]

You see what I mean, X-era. The Lions are even more desperate than us and still picked Kirk Chambers over Kaczur??? There's something we don't know...Could be. But waiting until now may not have been smart. There were upgrades to Pears when FA kicked off.

[better days]

Could be. But waiting until now may not have been smart. There were upgrades to Pears when FA kicked off.

Well, the Bills did try to sign Clabo. It's not as if they didn't try. Buddy & Chan may feel nobody else avaliable is that big of an upgrade to Pears, & that may be the case.

I think the biggest problem the OL has had has been cut. Fitz is now the QB not Trent & the OL looked MUCH better from game 3 on.

[X-Era]

Well, the Bills did try to sign Clabo. It's not as if they didn't try. Buddy & Chan may feel nobody else avaliable is that big of an upgrade to Pears, & that may be the case.

I think the biggest problem the OL has had has been cut. Fitz is now the QB not Trent & the OL looked MUCH better from game 3 on.Seriously? You think out of the entire list of free agent Tackles Clabo was the only one better than Pears?

Wow.

[better days]

Seriously? You think out of the entire list of free agent Tackles Clabo was the only one better than Pears?

Wow.

I said maybe not much of an upgrade. In other words, better than Pears but not a lot better & not worth the money they are asking because of their age or injuries or both. Chan & Buddy both seem to really like Pears, so I will trust in their judgement until I see him play some games.

[EDS]

I didn't realize I said he was, because I didn't.

It is well known Nix had control over those SD drafts.

And the Chargers didn't get to where they are with big name FA pickups. They drafted well year after year.

BS Nix had control of those drafts. Pretty well know that A.J. Smith controls those SD drafts.

[better days]

BS Nix had control of those drafts. Pretty well know that A.J. Smith controls those SD drafts.


Listen to the 1st hour of yesterdays Shredd & Ragan Podcast. Nix said "I tried to draft him in S.D but we had the 30th pick, Green Bay had the 29th.." NOT "we wanted to draft him" or "the Chargers tried to draft him" but "I tried to draft him". I seriously doubt Nix would say that unless he was responsible for the draft. </P%3

[EDS]

Listen to the 1st hour of yesterdays Shredd & Ragan Podcast. Nix said "I drafted him in S.D." NOT "we drafted him" or "the Chargers drafted him" but "I drafted him". I seriously doubt Nix would say that unless he was responsible for the draft.

Right . . .

[better days]

Right . . .

That's RIGHT.

[EDS]

That's RIGHT.

It's not. Think it through.