Enough of Getting a Gap Guy to Finish 7-9

[ghz in pittsburgh]

They are drafting people and play young guys. The only old guys that are expected to be here when we are legit contender are Flo and Barnett - and we have invested high picks in those positions even then.

To me, Nix and company are going to play the young guys within reason. They tried t get a pro ball caliber RT and failed. So they are staying with potential guys on the O-Line that they acquired. Likewise on WR position that they want to play young guys to let some emerge.

If the young guys emerge and the Bills doing better, so much better as there is less holes to fill. If they fail, well, Andrew Luck is not a bad compromise.

[OpIv37]

If their strategy is to play young guys, please explain to me why they pissed away an entire year with Evans, Poz and Whitner taking a ton of snaps when they could have gotten something for these guys LAST year, and then our young guys would be much further along in their development.

I don't think it's their strategy at all to play young guys. They tried to re-sign Poz and failed. They tried to sign Clabo and failed. They could have traded Evans for more last year- hell, they might have even gotten more for him if they did it right when the lockout ended THIS year.

It seems to me that they were hoping to move forward with Poz, Evans and Clabo, and when they couldn't get Clabo or keep Poz, their fallback is "**** it, play the young guys." Admittedly, this is speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason why they would break the team down NOW instead of last year.

[casdhf]

Live snaps are great, but the practice is important as well. These young guys got a year into the system and should know the playbook. Now, they need to perform, not learn and perform. Hopefully.

[FlyingDutchman]

If their strategy is to play young guys, please explain to me why they pissed away an entire year with Evans, Poz and Whitner taking a ton of snaps when they could have gotten something for these guys LAST year, and then our young guys would be much further along in their development.

I don't think it's their strategy at all to play young guys. They tried to re-sign Poz and failed. They tried to sign Clabo and failed. They could have traded Evans for more last year- hell, they might have even gotten more for him if they did it right when the lockout ended THIS year.

It seems to me that they were hoping to move forward with Poz, Evans and Clabo, and when they couldn't get Clabo or keep Poz, their fallback is "**** it, play the young guys." Admittedly, this is speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason why they would break the team down NOW instead of last year.

Isnt that the strategy you wanted? You went off for days saying screw it, let Poz go and lets just see what we have with the young guys

[Goobylal]

They're going with their best players, regardless of age. And it looks like they have some promising younger players to take over for the older guys. But they have to prove it first, as casdhf said.

[Goobylal]

And I don't think they went too hard after Poz, seeing how fast he bolted to Jax. Clabo they wanted but he didn't want to leave Atlanta as long as they gave him what he felt was a decent offer.

[BidsJr]

It is hardly failing when a $15mill LB signs somewhere else for $65 mill.

[TigerJ]

I think the strategy is to try and build a winning team over time without shelling out big bucks for veteran free agents who command high salaries. The Bills made an offer to Claybo, but they refrained from making him such a high paid player he was willing to leave the Falcons. In refraining from overpaying (in their mind) they are settling for a lesser player and hoping their rookie develops. Barnett was a value free agent, who happens to have a skill set that fits the 3-4 better than Poz did. He's older that Poz, but again, the Bills have some young guys they are hoping will develop. Merriman got a pretty good contract from the Bills, but not the contract the Bills would have to give a star player who wasn't damaged goods the way Merriman was regarded around the league.

All in all, I think it's probably a fairly smart way to go, but it may not be as quick a way to get better as we, the fans, would like.

[OpIv37]

Isnt that the strategy you wanted? You went off for days saying screw it, let Poz go and lets just see what we have with the young guys
And I said from the beginning that they should have gotten rid of Poz last year. The posts are there if you care to look them up.

IMO they pissed away a whole year of rebuilding and their actions show an utter lack of any plan or direction.

[OpIv37]

They're going with their best players, regardless of age. And it looks like they have some promising younger players to take over for the older guys. But they have to prove it first, as casdhf said.
How can you say that after the Evans trade? He was still clearly the best WR we had.

[BertSquirtgum]

this team sucks, the only hope i have is for an improvement is the defense. i can't wait to watch the offense embarrass us fans week after week. way to go front office.

[Michael82]

For the last time, Op....last year was about evaluating. Buddy was out of the league for a year or two before he came back to Buffalo, wasn't he? So when he came to Buffalo and got the GM job, he sat back and watched for a year to see what he had. Then after the evaluation year, he chatted with Gailey about who fits the scheme, and got rid of the trash. He tried to keep the young guys that wanted ti be here, but Poz chose the Money instead, so did Whitner when he talked his way out of town last year.

[B-DON]

For the last time, Op....last year was about evaluating. Buddy was out of the league for a year or two before he came back to Buffalo, wasn't he? So when he came to Buffalo and got the GM job, he sat back and watched for a year to see what he had. Then after the evaluation year, he chatted with Gailey about who fits the scheme, and got rid of the trash. He tried to keep the young guys that wanted ti be here, but Poz chose the Money instead, so did Whitner when he talked his way out of town last year.
Wasn't buddy here as an assistant the year before? Why wasn't he evaluating this roster then? Why waste two years on evaluating?

[Historian]

Again, this is why nobody wanted the HC job here.

[X-Era]

They are drafting people and play young guys. The only old guys that are expected to be here when we are legit contender are Flo and Barnett - and we have invested high picks in those positions even then.

To me, Nix and company are going to play the young guys within reason. They tried t get a pro ball caliber RT and failed. So they are staying with potential guys on the O-Line that they acquired. Likewise on WR position that they want to play young guys to let some emerge.

If the young guys emerge and the Bills doing better, so much better as there is less holes to fill. If they fail, well, Andrew Luck is not a bad compromise.So we can't tank the season to get the #1 overall pick for an unproven guy but we can tank the season by starting them?

[YardRat]

If their strategy is to play young guys, please explain to me why they pissed away an entire year with Evans, Poz and Whitner taking a ton of snaps when they could have gotten something for these guys LAST year, and then our young guys would be much further along in their development.

I don't think it's their strategy at all to play young guys. They tried to re-sign Poz and failed. They tried to sign Clabo and failed. They could have traded Evans for more last year- hell, they might have even gotten more for him if they did it right when the lockout ended THIS year.

It seems to me that they were hoping to move forward with Poz, Evans and Clabo, and when they couldn't get Clabo or keep Poz, their fallback is "**** it, play the young guys." Admittedly, this is speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason why they would break the team down NOW instead of last year.

This post is full of 'fail' it's funny.

They 'pissed away' an entire year to see if Evans, Poz, and Whitner were going to be veterans they could include in their core and build around after switching systems on both sides of the ball. Can't evaluate a player under new circumstances without seeing them play in them first and then deciding on if they are worth keeping and at how much.

They weren't going to pay the POS crazy Jax money...he isn't worth it. Bet your bottom dollar that the first time the POS's agent came to Nix and said "42mil" Buddy promptly (and correctly) said "Buh-bye".

You don't know if they were serious about going after Clabo, or knew up front that they didn't have a chance and the kid wanted to stay in Atlanta. If you know of an actual offer that the team made, it would be nice if you shared.

Their fallback for the POS was Barnett...that's pretty obvious, or at least should be.

[X-Era]

This post is full of 'fail' it's funny.

They 'pissed away' an entire year to see if Evans, Poz, and Whitner were going to be veterans they could include in their core and build around after switching systems on both sides of the ball. Can't evaluate a player under new circumstances without seeing them play in them first and then deciding on if they are worth keeping and at how much.

They weren't going to pay the POS crazy Jax money...he isn't worth it. Bet your bottom dollar that the first time the POS's agent came to Nix and said "42mil" Buddy promptly (and correctly) said "Buh-bye".

You don't know if they were serious about going after Clabo, or knew up front that they didn't have a chance and the kid wanted to stay in Atlanta. If you know of an actual offer that the team made, it would be nice if you shared.

Their fallback for the POS was Barnett...that's pretty obvious, or at least should be.I agree with much of what you said.

However, stating another theory on Poz and Clabo doesn't make it true. All we have to go on is rumors. But there were rumors that we made a competitive offer to Poz and that we did the same on Clabo. If true, both chose another team. We don't know the real details although Nix said with Poz it wasn't about the money.

I'm glad we didn't land Poz. That is ridiculous money IMO. But, I am unhappy that they ended the RT search after one guy. I hope they still make a move there.

[OpIv37]

For the last time, Op....last year was about evaluating. Buddy was out of the league for a year or two before he came back to Buffalo, wasn't he? So when he came to Buffalo and got the GM job, he sat back and watched for a year to see what he had. Then after the evaluation year, he chatted with Gailey about who fits the scheme, and got rid of the trash. He tried to keep the young guys that wanted ti be here, but Poz chose the Money instead, so did Whitner when he talked his way out of town last year.

Buddy was WORKING FOR THE BILLS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR before he became GM. There is no reason why an NFL level talent evaluator who had a year of working with these guys plus hours and hours of both game and practice footage on them should have needed an entire year to decide if they fit the scheme.

And then in the same breath, you say they "got rid of the trash" but that they tried to keep Poz and Whitner talked his way out of town. So, if they had been able to keep Poz and if Whitner wouldn't have talked his way out of town, what "trash" would they have gotten rid of already?

This is exactly what I mean when I say this team has no plan. They definitely wanted to keep Poz, they may have wanted to keep Whitner based on his play... so they didn't seem too hell-bent on getting rid of the trash. Playing the young guys doesn't appear to have been their strategy. It's the strategy their stuck with due to their indecisiveness and incompetence.

[OpIv37]

This post is full of 'fail' it's funny.

They 'pissed away' an entire year to see if Evans, Poz, and Whitner were going to be veterans they could include in their core and build around after switching systems on both sides of the ball. Can't evaluate a player under new circumstances without seeing them play in them first and then deciding on if they are worth keeping and at how much.

They weren't going to pay the POS crazy Jax money...he isn't worth it. Bet your bottom dollar that the first time the POS's agent came to Nix and said "42mil" Buddy promptly (and correctly) said "Buh-bye".

You don't know if they were serious about going after Clabo, or knew up front that they didn't have a chance and the kid wanted to stay in Atlanta. If you know of an actual offer that the team made, it would be nice if you shared.

Their fallback for the POS was Barnett...that's pretty obvious, or at least should be.

BUDDY WAS WITH THE TEAM FOR A YEAR BEFORE BECOMING GM, not to mention all the video on these guys. It's absolutely absurd that you guys think it's acceptable that they wasted a FULL YEAR to evaluate these guys when there was already so much information available about them. ****, there are guys ON THIS BOARD who said Poz wouldn't fit in a 3-4, yet somehow Buddy and Chan need to piss away an entire year by going 4-12 to figure it out? It's insane how the FO gets defended around here sometimes.


And even AFTER that, they still offered both Poz and Whitner contracts.

The whole thing wreaks of indecision. "Well, these guys aren't really bad enough cut but they're not really good enough to pay what it would take to keep them, so we'll just throw a contract number out there, see if it sticks, and then figure out where to go from there."

[ghz in pittsburgh]

So we can't tank the season to get the #1 overall pick for an unproven guy but we can tank the season by starting them?

You don't tank a season because you target someone in draft. You tank it because that's where you are in the process of building up.

I don't want them to go out get the old RG or RT because they don't serve our building strategy at all at this point. We need to play the young guys we have to find out where they are. And if we are worse off because of the management are wrong about the young guys they got, the NFL draft is set up in such a way to help you.

The key is to have a good drafting front office that in sync with the coaching staff.

[OpIv37]

You don't tank a season because you target someone in draft. You tank it because that's where you are in the process of building up.

I don't want them to go out get the old RG or RT because they don't serve our building strategy at all at this point. We need to play the young guys we have to find out where they are. And if we are worse off because of the management are wrong about the young guys they got, the NFL draft is set up in such a way to help you.

The key is to have a good drafting front office that in sync with the coaching staff.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why we didn't do this last year, especially with Ralph being the epic cheapskate that he is. And I want a valid reason, not this "Nix needed to treat an entire year as if it was training camp to evaluate players" nonsense.

[FlyingDutchman]

And I said from the beginning that they should have gotten rid of Poz last year. The posts are there if you care to look them up.

IMO they pissed away a whole year of rebuilding and their actions show an utter lack of any plan or direction.

no I could care less to look anything up. So Poz wasnt still part of the "youth" last year? Who was supposed to play in his place?

[FlyingDutchman]

ugghh...forget I even said anything OP...I cant do this today....I cant listen to someone piss and moan without ever offering a logical, rational alternative...its easy to complain and say stupid basic talking points...try actually being in the business you know nothing about

[OpIv37]

no I could care less to look anything up. So Poz wasnt still part of the "youth" last year? Who was supposed to play in his place?

whoever they drafted- it doesn't matter.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Poz is an average 4-3 LBer who doesn't fit a 3-4.

I don't even know why I have to argue this point.

[OpIv37]

ugghh...forget I even said anything OP...I cant do this today....I cant listen to someone piss and moan without ever offering a logical, rational alternative...its easy to complain and say stupid basic talking points...try actually being in the business you know nothing about

Sorry, but results dictate competence, not title. Just because Nix and Gailey are "in the business" doesn't necessarily mean they know what the **** they're doing.

You don't agree with me? You don't think I have the knowledge to know what I'm talking about? Fine. But as you go and accuse other people of having poor logic, don't make the faulty assumption that Nix and Gailey know what they're doing because they're "in the business." They have to get results, and so far all they've done is flail around moronically.

[EDS]

They are drafting people and play young guys. The only old guys that are expected to be here when we are legit contender are Flo and Barnett - and we have invested high picks in those positions even then.

To me, Nix and company are going to play the young guys within reason. They tried t get a pro ball caliber RT and failed. So they are staying with potential guys on the O-Line that they acquired. Likewise on WR position that they want to play young guys to let some emerge.

If the young guys emerge and the Bills doing better, so much better as there is less holes to fill. If they fail, well, Andrew Luck is not a bad compromise.

If they are going "young" why start 6 or more 30 year olds on defense? Also, having swung and missed on Claybo they are hardly going "young" with Pears since his is 29 years old. If they want to go young, but play Sheppard over Torbor, Wang over Pears. How much worse could the young guys be?

[FlyingDutchman]

Sorry, but results dictate competence, not title. Just because Nix and Gailey are "in the business" doesn't necessarily mean they know what the **** they're doing.

You don't agree with me? You don't think I have the knowledge to know what I'm talking about? Fine. But as you go and accuse other people of having poor logic, don't make the faulty assumption that Nix and Gailey know what they're doing because they're "in the business." They have to get results, and so far all they've done is flail around moronically.

didnt say you had poor logic, said you have NO logic. I said all you do is complain and you offer general points as your answer or alternative..."we should have replaced Poz last year with youth"...ok with who then, what were we supposed to do with poz, where were we going to get that magical replacement from? etc etc...all you do is complain man...Didnt say the Bills have stuff figured out by any means, but you sure as hell dont either. Running an NFL organization isnt black and white like you try to always make it out to be

[ddaryl]

this team sucks, the only hope i have is for an improvement is the defense. i can't wait to watch the offense embarrass us fans week after week. way to go front office.

:1:

[Captain Obvious]

didnt say you had poor logic, said you have NO logic. I said all you do is complain and you offer general points as your answer or alternative...

Another tactic he uses is to "stradle the fence".. hes 50/50 on the Evans trade he won't completely commit either way

[FlyingDutchman]

Another tactic he uses is to "stradle the fence".. hes 50/50 on the Evans trade he won't completely commit either way

Exactly, I thought he would have been thrilled bc according to OP, Evans is probably part of the "losing culture" that should be just gotten rid of

[OpIv37]

didnt say you had poor logic, said you have NO logic. I said all you do is complain and you offer general points as your answer or alternative..."we should have replaced Poz last year with youth"...ok with who then, what were we supposed to do with poz, where were we going to get that magical replacement from? etc etc...all you do is complain man...Didnt say the Bills have stuff figured out by any means, but you sure as hell dont either. Running an NFL organization isnt black and white like you try to always make it out to be

They could have replaced him with ANYONE who was young and who was a 3-4 LBer. I don't know who was available in the draft and I don't know who was available via FA, because unlike the FO, I have a job that's unrelated to football. They get paid boatloads of money to get it right, and still end up getting it wrong more often than not.

Once again, you're personalizing this. Just because I don't have an alternative off the top of my head doesn't mean there isn't one. Again, they get paid boatloads of money to get it right, and when they get it wrong, then we as fans are within our rights to complain.

And you're not even defending the team because you say they don't have it all figured out- all you're doing is complaining that I complain too much. So what if I complain too much? What difference does it make to you? Regardless of your opinions about my posts, I always try to make it about the team, and you guys always turn it around and make it about me. ****.

[OpIv37]

Another tactic he uses is to "stradle the fence".. hes 50/50 on the Evans trade he won't completely commit either way

"tactic I use"? I said it once.

Show me one other place where I straddled the fence.

Your passive-aggressive nonsense is hilarious. When FD or justa are arguing with me, you jump in with some half-assed barely relevant point and address me only in the 3rd person. You're intimidated as hell to actually try to argue your point for yourself, which just shows the weakness of your position.

[FlyingDutchman]

They could have replaced him with ANYONE who was young and who was a 3-4 LBer. I don't know who was available in the draft and I don't know who was available via FA, because unlike the FO, I have a job that's unrelated to football. They get paid boatloads of money to get it right, and still end up getting it wrong more often than not.

Once again, you're personalizing this. Just because I don't have an alternative off the top of my head doesn't mean there isn't one. Again, they get paid boatloads of money to get it right, and when they get it wrong, then we as fans are within our rights to complain.

And you're not even defending the team because you say they don't have it all figured out- all you're doing is complaining that I complain too much. So what if I complain too much? What difference does it make to you? Regardless of your opinions about my posts, I always try to make it about the team, and you guys always turn it around and make it about me. ****.

Translation= You have no idea what you would do

[OpIv37]

Translation= You have no idea what you would do

Once again, making it about me. It's not about what I know or what I would do- it's about the fact that the FO failed. But if you can make it about me, then you don't have to admit that.

[ParanoidAndroid]

whoever they drafted- it doesn't matter.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Poz is an average 4-3 LBer who doesn't fit a 3-4.

I don't even know why I have to argue this point.

Poz was never even seen, let alone evaluated in a 3-4 until last year, so I'm not sure how you are able to tell anyone it "doesn't take a genius to see..."

Whoever? Come on, man.... if it was someone not up to your standards, you would have found fault with that, too.

[FlyingDutchman]

Once again, making it about me. It's not about what I know or what I would do- it's about the fact that the FO failed. But if you can make it about me, then you don't have to admit that.

bc you said "Someone explain to ME"...anything that is told you, you are going to say its just an excuse or go off on some asinine rant like you always do so why bother? All im going to say is running a team isnt like you think it is, and you think you have everything all figured out when you clearly dont know the first thing

[psubills62]

Op, you can't blow up the team in one year. Our roster was already thin as a sheet last year. And yes, Nix was with the Bills for a year, but that doesn't mean you can accurately evaluate what guys are going to do in a new system, especially on defense.

And why do you think they would have gotten more for Evans last year or even after the lockout ended? Not sure where the logic is in suggesting that. In 2009, he had 44 receptions for 612 yards in 16 games vs. 37 receptions for 578 yards in 13 games during 2010. Pretty much the same if you ask me.

Getting players on the field right away isn't always the best and certainly not the only way to develop them. Look at 3-4 DL around the league. Look at Pittsburgh Steelers LB's. These players often wait 1-2 years before playing much at all.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Once again, making it about me. It's not about what I know or what I would do- it's about the fact that the FO failed. But if you can make it about me, then you don't have to admit that.

That's a cop out.

[EDS]

Op, you can't blow up the team in one year. Our roster was already thin as a sheet last year. And yes, Nix was with the Bills for a year, but that doesn't mean you can accurately evaluate what guys are going to do in a new system, especially on defense.

And why do you think they would have gotten more for Evans last year or even after the lockout ended? Not sure where the logic is in suggesting that. In 2009, he had 44 receptions for 612 yards in 16 games vs. 37 receptions for 578 yards in 13 games during 2010. Pretty much the same if you ask me.

Getting players on the field right away isn't always the best and certainly not the only way to develop them. Look at 3-4 DL around the league. Look at Pittsburgh Steelers LB's. These players often wait 1-2 years before playing much at all.

Little bit of a difference sitting for a year or two behind James Harrison versus Chris Kelsay.

[OpIv37]

bc you said "Someone explain to ME"...anything that is told you, you are going to say its just an excuse or go off on some asinine rant like you always do so why bother? All im going to say is running a team isnt like you think it is, and you think you have everything all figured out when you clearly dont know the first thing

What? This makes zero sense. When I say "someone explain to me..." then I'm basically saying that I don't understand why the team did something and I'm awaiting a response. I'm giving people the opportunity to explain the things I don't have figured out.

And you know what? You say the rant is "asinine," but generally, the rant is inspired by an asinine response. Buddy Nix, who was with the team for a year before he became GM, needed another ENTIRE SEASON to evaluate talent, when most NFL teams can do this during training camp and preseason? THAT's asinine, and you don't have to be an expert at running an NFL team to see it.

Ironically, the people who say that Nix has a plan and that we're "building through the draft" and all of those other things don't know any more about running an NFL team than I do. Yet, somehow, you choose to let that go and come after me. I find that very interesting.

[OpIv37]

Op, you can't blow up the team in one year. Our roster was already thin as a sheet last year. And yes, Nix was with the Bills for a year, but that doesn't mean you can accurately evaluate what guys are going to do in a new system, especially on defense.

And why do you think they would have gotten more for Evans last year or even after the lockout ended? Not sure where the logic is in suggesting that. In 2009, he had 44 receptions for 612 yards in 16 games vs. 37 receptions for 578 yards in 13 games during 2010. Pretty much the same if you ask me.

Getting players on the field right away isn't always the best and certainly not the only way to develop them. Look at 3-4 DL around the league. Look at Pittsburgh Steelers LB's. These players often wait 1-2 years before playing much at all.

Obviously I have no proof that we would have gotten more for Evans if we had moved him sooner- that's just speculation on my part. The important piece, however, is that if this FO truly wants to break it down and go with young guys, Evans should have been moved last year.

And so what if our roster was thin as a sheet last year? It got us all of 4 wins. We lost our first 8 games. Would a little less depth in the form of vets who aren't part of the future made that much difference? It bought us maybe 2 extra wins at the expense of player development and another essentially wasted season this year.

And as far as guys in the system, it's no big secret that some guys fit certain systems and some don't. Teams pass on guys in the draft and guys in FA every single year because they "don't fit the system." But Buddy has to give these guys a full season to determine that they don't fit the system? That's just absurd.

[FlyingDutchman]

Whatever you say man. You still have no logical answer yourself to everything you complain about, and you never do. Thats the point. You say the team should always do this and that like its so simple. Thats what I mean, youre completely out of your element . Whenever you get asked a semi-difficult answer you usually cop out or avoid the question all together. I know we suck, and I know our problems...and I dont have an answer either

[psubills62]

Little bit of a difference sitting for a year or two behind James Harrison versus Chris Kelsay.
Still gives time to slow the game down and let the coaches develop them. Sometimes it's best to simplify things.

[OpIv37]

That's a cop out.

Call it what you want. The supposed "professionals" who run this team failed, and you guys are defending them because a fan like me- who only follows this in his free time- doesn't have an alternative. You're trying to hold me to the same standard as the guys who get paid big bucks to run the team. That's ridiculous.

[FlyingDutchman]

Call it what you want. The supposed "professionals" who run this team failed, and you guys are defending them because a fan like me- who only follows this in his free time- doesn't have an alternative. You're trying to hold me to the same standard as the guys who get paid big bucks to run the team. That's ridiculous.

another cop out

[OpIv37]

Whatever you say man. You still have no logical answer yourself to everything you complain about, and you never do. Thats the point. You say the team should always do this and that like its so simple. Thats what I mean, youre completely out of your element . Whenever you get asked a semi-difficult answer you usually cop out or avoid the question all together. I know we suck, and I know our problems...and I dont have an answer either

So if you know we suck, and you know our problems, and you don't have an answer, why are you complaining that I don't have an answer? Nothing about that makes any sense. All you're doing is complaining about me complaining. It has nothing to do with the team or football anymore.

[FlyingDutchman]

So if you know we suck, and you know our problems, and you don't have an answer, why are you complaining that I don't have an answer? Nothing about that makes any sense. All you're doing is complaining about me complaining. It has nothing to do with the team or football anymore.

bc the ideas you "offer" are such general stupid talking points or ideas, and you expect those to be taken seriously like thats all the team had to do all along to be good...its so laughable.....

The economy would be so much better right now if we could get down our debt, increase revenue and create millions of jobs, I dont get why its been so hard to see this for the last 10 years......this is similar to the kind of crap answers you give on crap that isnt so simple

[FlyingDutchman]

So if you know we suck, and you know our problems, and you don't have an answer, why are you complaining that I don't have an answer? Nothing about that makes any sense. All you're doing is complaining about me complaining. It has nothing to do with the team or football anymore.

and also you expect the front office to have an answer when you dont even know where to begin

[psubills62]

Obviously I have no proof that we would have gotten more for Evans if we had moved him sooner- that's just speculation on my part. The important piece, however, is that if this FO truly wants to break it down and go with young guys, Evans should have been moved last year.

And so what if our roster was thin as a sheet last year? It got us all of 4 wins. We lost our first 8 games. Would a little less depth in the form of vets who aren't part of the future made that much difference? It bought us maybe 2 extra wins at the expense of player development and another essentially wasted season this year.

And as far as guys in the system, it's no big secret that some guys fit certain systems and some don't. Teams pass on guys in the draft and guys in FA every single year because they "don't fit the system." But Buddy has to give these guys a full season to determine that they don't fit the system? That's just absurd.
"Going with the young guys" doesn't always mean just throwing them into the fray immediately. There's some element of timing involved - develop for a year or so, then let them show what they have as starters. And at this point last year, Steve Johnson hadn't even had his ONE good season. Look at the rioting now, and all our receivers have a year's experience, think about the rioting from fans last year when we would have a completely unproven Steve Johnson, three UDFA's and Parrish, who almost no one (including me and you) had faith in at that point. You definitely would have called that the dumbest trade on earth at that point, no doubt about it.

Tell me again why you think that players can ONLY develop when given playing time?

It's absurd to use one season to look and see if guys fit? Wow, you and I have very different definitions of absurdity.

[OpIv37]

and also you expect the front office to have an answer when you dont even know where to begin

Of course I expect the FO to have an answer where I don't even know where to begin. They're professionals who have done nothing but football for a living.

If I take my car to a mechanic, I expect him to be able to fix a problem when I have no idea where to begin.

If I call an electrician to my house, I expect him to fix a problem when I have no idea where to begin.

Why? Because they're trained professionals and I'm not.

And that being said- there are a LOT of things that I've said, as well as others on this board, that made a lot more sense than what the FO actually did, and the results on the field prove it. So, they're supposed professionals who get paid to get this stuff right, but half the time they don't even know better than average fans on a message board.

Hence, the complaining.

[OpIv37]

"Going with the young guys" doesn't always mean just throwing them into the fray immediately. There's some element of timing involved - develop for a year or so, then let them show what they have as starters. And at this point last year, Steve Johnson hadn't even had his ONE good season. Look at the rioting now, and all our receivers have a year's experience, think about the rioting from fans last year when we would have a completely unproven Steve Johnson, three UDFA's and Parrish, who almost no one (including me and you) had faith in at that point. You definitely would have called that the dumbest trade on earth at that point, no doubt about it.

Tell me again why you think that players can ONLY develop when given playing time?

It's absurd to use one season to look and see if guys fit? Wow, you and I have very different definitions of absurdity.

1. True leaders know how and when to make the difficult, unpopular choice.
2. Rioting? We're complaining on a message board. When the games start, there will be just as many people at the stadium and watching the games as there have been for this entire decade of fail. Why is it OK to have the unproven Steve Johnson, Easley, Parrish and some UDFA's THIS year but not LAST year? Sorry, but Johnson and Donald Jones' season last year doesn't make them "proven."

And please, don't resort to speculating how you think I would have reacted then use that in trying to make your point. You're smarter than that.

[FlyingDutchman]

Of course I expect the FO to have an answer where I don't even know where to begin. They're professionals who have done nothing but football for a living.

If I take my car to a mechanic, I expect him to be able to fix a problem when I have no idea where to begin.

If I call an electrician to my house, I expect him to fix a problem when I have no idea where to begin.

Why? Because they're trained professionals and I'm not.

And that being said- there are a LOT of things that I've said, as well as others on this board, that made a lot more sense than what the FO actually did, and the results on the field prove it. So, they're supposed professionals who get paid to get this stuff right, but half the time they don't even know better than average fans on a message board.

Hence, the complaining.

You either have a problem reading or with comprehension. Both examples you just gave are about as black and white as it gets. I have a cavity, I go to the dentist he fixes it. No kidding genius. Now fix the bills LB core, offensive line, secondary, defensive ends, and QB in one draft and FA period when its pretty accepted that FA dont want to play here. What would you do. How about a straight answer instead of the cop out I feel coming. Go....

[baalworship]

To get back to the original poster, I agree with going young this year.

I think Buddy Nix inherited a bad roster with very few players. As for why he didn't fully evaluate them bear in mind he was not the GM his first year here. He was a part time scout watching the SEC. Totally different responsibility than evaluating the Bills roster. Also, he wanted Gailey to take the players for a spin and share his thoughts.

So where are we at now? The Bills are a team playing in the AFC East. In order for us to make the playoffs we need to be better than the Patriots and/or Jets. We are still behind both but I think we made up ground just by virtue of the fact that we at least appear to have a defensive line now. So 4 losses to the Jets and Pats plus another to the Dolphins leaves us 1-5 in the division if you are looking at this realistically. That would mean we would have to go 9-1 in the rest of our games to have a shot at a wildcard! Pretty low.

So what's the right strategy? I say play young get rid of older players now that won't be here in the next 2-3 years and concentrate on being competitive.

I think Nix hopes we are 1 more year from competing and if we win only 4-5 games we will have a good shot at Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. Throw in a left tackle and a free agent guard and we are in business.

This is the plan I would implement going forward and I suspect Nix isn't too far from this thinking as well. You know Nix likes Fitzpatrick but still wants a "franchise quarterback." Bills are not tanking but they are also not loading up on mediocrity just to get another win either.

[OpIv37]

You either have a problem reading or with comprehension. Both examples you just gave are about as black and white as it gets. I have a cavity, I go to the dentist he fixes it. No kidding genius. Now fix the bills LB core, offensive line, secondary, defensive ends, and QB in one draft and FA period when its pretty accepted that FA dont want to play here. What would you do. How about a straight answer instead of the cop out I feel coming. Go....

First, no one said ANYTHING about fixing all of that in one draft and one FA period. What I said, and what I've maintained, is that rebuilding is supposed to be a process of getting better. Through last year's and this year's FA periods, we've gotten better at ZERO of those positions. Barnett is probably a slight improvement over Poz, but that's it. No one expects them to fix all of that, but they have to do better than they are.

Second, it's part of the FO's job to make FA's want to play here. People like you just say "FA's don't want to play here" as if it's some inevitable fact that no one can change. It's the FO's job to change that mentality and so far they've failed to do it.

Third, yes, the examples I gave are black and white, but it doesn't change the fact that professionals are expected to get results. Want some better examples? Fine. Politicians are expected to be responsible with the public's money and keep the economy strong. CEO's are responsible for keeping a company profitable and money for the shareholders. Project managers are expected to make project deadlines and stay under budget. None of these things are black and white, but the professionals in these positions are still expected to get results.

If a project manager constantly misses deadlines and goes over budget, are you going to stay on his team? Most likely you'll look to transfer to a different project or just change companies.

If a CEO keeps losing money, are you going to keep your stock in his company? If a politician keeps increasing the deficit and raising taxes, are you going to keep voting for him?

It's the same thing: people in certain positions are expected to get results. It doesn't matter if it's a mechanic fixing your car or a CEO running a Fortune 500 company or the Bills' FO. They are in that position because, supposedly, they are professionals and know how to fix problems that people like us- who aren't trained in those fields- don't know how to fix.

[psubills62]

1. True leaders know how and when to make the difficult, unpopular choice.
2. Rioting? We're complaining on a message board. When the games start, there will be just as many people at the stadium and watching the games as there have been for this entire decade of fail. Why is it OK to have the unproven Steve Johnson, Easley, Parrish and some UDFA's THIS year but not LAST year? Sorry, but Johnson and Donald Jones' season last year doesn't make them "proven."

And please, don't resort to speculating how you think I would have reacted then use that in trying to make your point. You're smarter than that.
You're pretty predictable, it's not that hard to speculate. And if you can speculate on Lee Evans' value, then I can speculate on how you'd have reacted if they traded him a year ago.

Because the coaches have now used a season to evaluate what they have, and apparently they like it. Would you rather they have used one TC to evaluate them or one TC, several games, and part of another TC? Nobody's saying our WR corps is proven, I said that last year they were completely unproven. Now they're just less unproven, but it's obvious that there's some talent there.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Two themes:

1) Can they move Evans last year? Sure they can, and maybe they should, but not on sound reasoning. Gailey is the new coach. He has not see any of them playing a game FOR him UNDER his system. You gotta give the coach a chance to evaluate in real games. If Evans fits Gailey's offense like a glove, he'll still be here regardless his age. On a side note, this coaching staff does not want distractions in locker room. When they find out Edwards was not their guy, they cut him instead of demote him. In Evans case, they do not want to play the guys they want to see in Evans' spot while he is still on the team.

2) I think a lot of changes behind the scene were happening for Nix last year. Obviously he's not happy with the scouting department, both college and pro. and he had to find the coaching staff. People want immediate results. But the reality is that stable organizations with right people produce consistent results. And it takes time. Maybe Nix is not the right guy at the end, but on surface, he's laying the foundation towards what I consider the most important part - a good scouting staff and a good pro department with successor in place so the organization is on stable ground.

[OpIv37]

Two themes:

1) Can they move Evans last year? Sure they can, and maybe they should, but not on sound reasoning. Gailey is the new coach. He has not see any of them playing a game FOR him UNDER his system. You gotta give the coach a chance to evaluate in real games. If Evans fits Gailey's offense like a glove, he'll still be here regardless his age. On a side note, this coaching staff does not want distractions in locker room. When they find out Edwards was not their guy, they cut him instead of demote him. In Evans case, they do not want to play the guys they want to see in Evans' spot while he is still on the team.

2) I think a lot of changes behind the scene were happening for Nix last year. Obviously he's not happy with the scouting department, both college and pro. and he had to find the coaching staff. People want immediate results. But the reality is that stable organizations with right people produce consistent results. And it takes time. Maybe Nix is not the right guy at the end, but on surface, he's laying the foundation towards what I consider the most important part - a good scouting staff and a good pro department with successor in place so the organization is on stable ground.

Why is it that other teams can evaluate guys in camp and preseason but we have to piss away a whole year to do it?

And nobody wants "immediate results" in the form of an instant contender. All I want is some sign that we're slowly getting better, mainly in the form of tangible improvement at a position or two. Both the draft and FA last year proved to be very unproductive, and that has me concerned. Granted, the jury's still out on both this year and last year's draft classes, but two drafts and two FA periods in, it's hard to see how we're better than we were when Nix and Gailey took over.

[Captain Obvious]

Whenever you get asked a semi-difficult answer you usually cop out or avoid the question all together.

Yes.. He hated the CJ Spiller pick because he thought there 4 or 5 other positions of greater need than RB..but he refused to give a name of a player who he thought the Bills should have taken instead of Spiller..

[mjt328]

Listen,
I'm glad that we have confident in our young players, and I really hope they develop for us.

But the BOTTOM LINE is... the Bills have almost $30 million available in cap room. They have publicly admitted that right tackle is a weak point and could use an upgrade. Depth was clearly a problem last year, and looks to be that way this year.

WHY are we not bringing in some more talent?
Do you really believe that out of the hundreds of free agent tackles available, that only Tyson Clabo could be better than Erik Pears? That nobody on the market could be an asset to the poor depth we have at o-line?

If we want to re-sign Fitz, Stevie and Kyle Williams during the season, great. But I'm sure there will still be plenty of space available, especially after saying goodbye to Lee Evans and when we cut Maybin.

The problem is... this team is reluctant to spend money.
They don't completely refuse - there are enough good signings in the past to prove that - but as a whole, they don't want to be a team that uses every resource to make themselves better. And for a team that has NEVER won the Super Bowl, that is unacceptable.

[OpIv37]

Yes.. He hated the CJ Spiller pick because he thought there 4 or 5 other positions of greater need than RB..but he refused to give a name of a player who he thought the Bills should have taken instead of Spiller..

And what has Spiller done for us so far?

RB has the easiest learning curve in the NFL. Every year, some rookie RB comes in and shreds the league. Spiller did NOTHING. He was thoroughly outplayed by the 29 year old UDFA Fred Jackson.

So what if I couldn't name someone else we should have taken? IT'S NOT ABOUT ME. The FO should know better than to spend the 9th overall pick on an RB who can't contribute immediately, especially when they trade away our other RB.

[McBFLO]

If their strategy is to play young guys, please explain to me why they pissed away an entire year with Evans, Poz and Whitner taking a ton of snaps when they could have gotten something for these guys LAST year, and then our young guys would be much further along in their development.

I don't think it's their strategy at all to play young guys. They tried to re-sign Poz and failed. They tried to sign Clabo and failed. They could have traded Evans for more last year- hell, they might have even gotten more for him if they did it right when the lockout ended THIS year.

It seems to me that they were hoping to move forward with Poz, Evans and Clabo, and when they couldn't get Clabo or keep Poz, their fallback is "**** it, play the young guys." Admittedly, this is speculation on my part, but I can't think of any other reason why they would break the team down NOW instead of last year.
It was their first year here and wanted to see what they had. They made it clear that Whitner wouldn't be back. Poz, while not being a star, was at the least a serviceable player. Glad they didn't match the offer that the Jagoffs gave him. You should be too. And with Evans, they probably would have kept him this year if some of the younger WRs didn't produce when given the opportunity. But they did, so he's gone. NONE of those 3 players will be missed.

[OpIv37]

It was their first year here and wanted to see what they had. They made it clear that Whitner wouldn't be back. Poz, while not being a star, was at the least a serviceable player. Glad they didn't match the offer that the Jagoffs gave him. You should be too. And with Evans, they probably would have kept him this year if some of the younger WRs didn't produce when given the opportunity. But they did, so he's gone. NONE of those 3 players will be missed.

First, it wasn't Nix's first year here. Second, most teams can evaluate guys in camp and preseason- why does Nix need an entire season?

Third, they offered Whitner a contract before the lockout started. He balked at it, but they made him an offer.

As far as players being missed, the only one I'm worried about missing is Evans, but I still think it should have been done a year sooner. We basically kept these guys around for the sake of a 4-12 season, and it delayed our rebuilding efforts.

[McBFLO]

How do you get thru your day being so negative?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Call it what you want. The supposed "professionals" who run this team failed, and you guys are defending them because a fan like me- who only follows this in his free time- doesn't have an alternative. You're trying to hold me to the same standard as the guys who get paid big bucks to run the team. That's ridiculous.

If you have an opinion, you must have a reason for it. You copped out that time when you were called out. That's all.

The Poz situation was a no win situation with you and you were caught on that.

I think folks would give you less s*** if you were a little less reluctant to give them credit when they get something right.

[OpIv37]

How do you get thru your day being so negative?

It's not being negative- it's being realistic. The more I think about it, the less apparent Nix's strategy is. Some of the things he does suggest one route, while other things suggest another route. Obviously we have no way of knowing for sure, but the appearance, and the results, have not been good.

I'm not happy about it, but it is what it is.

[OpIv37]

If you have an opinion, you must have a reason for it. You copped out that time when you were called out. That's all.

The Poz situation was a no win situation with you and you were caught on that.

I think folks would give you less s*** if you were a little less reluctant to give them credit when they get something right.

What?

My reason for my opinion is so the young guys could have gained experience LAST year instead of this year. If you disagree with that reasoning, fine, but don't say it's a cop-out and that I have no reason behind my opinion because that's simply not true.

As far as the Poz situation, I wasn't caught at all. I didn't want to re-sign him. The second the FO offered him a contract, they were wrong IMO. I got the result I wanted, but it was IN SPITE of the FO, not because of the FO. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

[McBFLO]

Man, if I was so "realistic" about this team every waking second of the day, I'd start to wonder why I bother to root for them anymore, or post on here all the time.

I wonder what percentage of your almost 60,000 posts are of you having an "unrealistic" (or as I and many others on here choose to call it, optimistic or hopeful) point of view. My guess is a very small percentage.

[OpIv37]

Man, if I was so "realistic" about this team every waking second of the day, I'd start to wonder why I bother to root for them anymore, or post on here all the time.


Because that's what fans do. It isn't just about rooting for the team when they're good, or if you can convince yourself that their good.

The problem with the fan mentality is that we all WANT the team to do well. That causes some fans to start with the conclusion that we are improving, and look for shreds of evidence to support the conclusion, while ignoring the mounds of evidence in the other direction.

If I honestly thought this team would be good, I'd come out and say it. And I'm sure there are some good things about the team (Kyle Williams and Merriman if he's healthy, for instance). But right now, that's not what's defining this team. What's defining the team- and dictating the results on the field- is a lack of talent, a cheap, meddling owner and an FO that seems to either lack strategy or lack the ability to implement their strategy. We could talk all we want about Kyle Williams or Merriman, but at the end of the day, they can't win games by themselves and we're still going to have a losing record.

My posts will become more optimistic when this team turns a corner and starts being defined by the positive rather than the negative.

[psubills62]

Because that's what fans do. It isn't just about rooting for the team when they're good, or if you can convince yourself that their good.

The problem with the fan mentality is that we all WANT the team to do well. That causes some fans to start with the conclusion that we are improving, and look for shreds of evidence to support the conclusion, while ignoring the mounds of evidence in the other direction.

If I honestly thought this team would be good, I'd come out and say it. And I'm sure there are some good things about the team (Kyle Williams and Merriman if he's healthy, for instance). But right now, that's not what's defining this team. What's defining the team- and dictating the results on the field- is a lack of talent, a cheap, meddling owner and an FO that seems to either lack strategy or lack the ability to implement their strategy. We could talk all we want about Kyle Williams or Merriman, but at the end of the day, they can't win games by themselves and we're still going to have a losing record.

My posts will become more optimistic when this team turns a corner and starts being defined by the positive rather than the negative.
Even a losing record can constitute an improvement over a 4-win season.

I'll grant that some people (myself included at times) are illogically optimistic. But there are also times when people (yourself included at times) are illogically negative. The key is being honest about BOTH sides - positions they're improving at and positions that need to be improved. Kyle Williams and Merriman are far from the only guys we can get excited about. At the least, it's interesting to me to see what players could do well, even if I don't expect it.

People in general on here, especially after the Evans trade, seem to assume what the results on the field will be this year. If we do have a 4-12 season, I'll be right with you, Op, but until that happens, I think it's best to wait and see how the team does on the field before assuming anything at this point.

[YardRat]

BUDDY WAS WITH THE TEAM FOR A YEAR BEFORE BECOMING GM, not to mention all the video on these guys. It's absolutely absurd that you guys think it's acceptable that they wasted a FULL YEAR to evaluate these guys when there was already so much information available about them. ****, there are guys ON THIS BOARD who said Poz wouldn't fit in a 3-4, yet somehow Buddy and Chan need to piss away an entire year by going 4-12 to figure it out? It's insane how the FO gets defended around here sometimes.

They switched offensive and defensive schemes last season after Gailey took over and reassembled the staff. When are you going to accept that? You keep tilting at windmills and refuse to look at the situation realistically.

You know damn well if the POS, Whitner, Evans etc were immediately cut loose or traded prior to last season you would've been the first to jump on the 'dumbass front office' bandwagon, because 'they weren't even given a chance to play in the new systems, just another example of the FO thinking they're smarter than everybody else'.

I'm calling bull**** on the POS/3-4 fit. I'm sure as hell not going to scrounge around old threads, but it seems to me that the vast majority of the board wanted to give the POS a chance in the 34 and that maybe it was a better fit for him. Maybe a couple of rare posters thought otherwise, but it's not like it was the CW among the majority, and I can't think of any off of the top of my head.



And even AFTER that, they still offered both Poz and Whitner contracts.

What did they offer the POS? Did they offer Whitner after the end of last season? Hell, I don't like the POS AT ALL, but at the right price he could still be a serviceable back-up. Whitner is also still serviceable, so why not do the appropriate PR and make the offer? You're always *****ing about players not wanting to come here, how the hell do you think it would've went over here and around the league if at some point, last spring OR this summer, the FO had just said '**** 'em! Let 'em all walk!'


The whole thing wreaks of indecision. "Well, these guys aren't really bad enough cut but they're not really good enough to pay what it would take to keep them, so we'll just throw a contract number out there, see if it sticks, and then figure out where to go from there."

:rofl: What do you think, a 'good' front office has a 12 step plan that they follow come hell or high water, and everything just flows exactly the way they planned? Get a clue. Every business model/game plan has to have some contigency/flexibility, because **** just doesn't happen the way you think it should all of the time.

Jesus Christ...Sit back, pop a beer, take a breath and actually try to read and disseminate some of the *****es and rants you throw out there from an objective standpoint and you might start to understand how ****ing cluelees you sound sometimes.

"Waaaah! The dumbasses tried and failed to sign the POS and got caught with their pants down!" Never mind that they almost immediately signed Burnett, or that they have spent at least four draft picks on LBers the last two seasons. Never mind that the entire front seven has been completely re-vamped in just over one full season of play.

"Waaah! They should have traded Evans last season!" Never mind that he was the only WR on the team with any starting experience.

"Waaah! Ralph's a cheap, meddling **** and it's all his fault!" Never mind that you pretty much have already placed the blame on the other dumbasses who have been in charge over the years (Donahoe, Brandon, Levy, Jauron, Mularkey, etc etc etc.) Make up your ****ing mind and stick to it, will ya?

Piss and moan...***** and rag. Rinse. Repeat. Blah, blah, blah.

[OpIv37]

Even a losing record can constitute an improvement over a 4-win season.

I'll grant that some people (myself included at times) are illogically optimistic. But there are also times when people (yourself included at times) are illogically negative. The key is being honest about BOTH sides - positions they're improving at and positions that need to be improved. Kyle Williams and Merriman are far from the only guys we can get excited about. At the least, it's interesting to me to see what players could do well, even if I don't expect it.

People in general on here, especially after the Evans trade, seem to assume what the results on the field will be this year. If we do have a 4-12 season, I'll be right with you, Op, but until that happens, I think it's best to wait and see how the team does on the field before assuming anything at this point.

Improvement that doesn't lead to more wins isn't improvement. Wins are all that matters.

There are lots of positions on this team that are "interesting" because they are being manned by young and/or unproven players. I'm sure some of those guys will do well and some of them won't. My problem this year- as with every year for most of the last decade- is that we are going in with far too many question marks. The only way we do well is if at least 75-80% of those guys start contributing right away, and that's just extremely unlikely.

[justasportsfan]

Pats and jets are in a pissing match. They will destroy each other and the bills will march through to the top of the AFCE while they dragging the fins on a leash .

Yeah I like that scenario.

[psubills62]

Improvement that doesn't lead to more wins isn't improvement. Wins are all that matters.

There are lots of positions on this team that are "interesting" because they are being manned by young and/or unproven players. I'm sure some of those guys will do well and some of them won't. My problem this year- as with every year for most of the last decade- is that we are going in with far too many question marks. The only way we do well is if at least 75-80% of those guys start contributing right away, and that's just extremely unlikely.
I know, thus going from 4 wins to 7 can still constitute an improvement, even though the latter would also mean a losing season.

Well, it's time to erase those question marks. Like I said before, sometimes sitting guys can help and now it's time to see what Carrington, Troup, Moats, Batten, etc. can do. There are young guys who could still end up as unknowns and question marks at the end of the season, but this is a year where we start solving some of our problems with these guys.

[OpIv37]

They switched offensive and defensive schemes last season after Gailey took over and reassembled the staff. When are you going to accept that? You keep tilting at windmills and refuse to look at the situation realistically.


Why are the Bills the only team in the NFL that needs an ENTIRE YEAR to evaluate guys in a "new system." Teams cut guys and pass on drafting or signing good players every year because they "don't fit the system." In fact, I've heard it tossed around here as a legitimate reason behind personnel decisions in the past. But now Nix needs a full year to evaluate guys in the new schemes? That's just ridiculous on an epic level.



You know damn well if the POS, Whitner, Evans etc were immediately cut loose or traded prior to last season you would've been the first to jump on the 'dumbass front office' bandwagon, because 'they weren't even given a chance to play in the new systems, just another example of the FO thinking they're smarter than everybody else'.

I'm calling bull**** on the POS/3-4 fit. I'm sure as hell not going to scrounge around old threads, but it seems to me that the vast majority of the board wanted to give the POS a chance in the 34 and that maybe it was a better fit for him. Maybe a couple of rare posters thought otherwise, but it's not like it was the CW among the majority, and I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

I've never liked Whitner and I always thought Poz was mediocre. I wouldn't have complained one bit about losing those guys, and I never cared to give Poz a chance in the 3-4. Since we switched, I HOPED it would help him because I want the team to win, but I never thought it would happen. Evans and Stroud... well, that might have gotten more of a reaction from me, but Stroud proved he was worthless last year anyway, so it would have been the right call.

More importantly, though, IT"S NOT ABOUT ME ON HOW I WOULD HAVE REACTED. And it's not about pleasing the majority. It's about doing the right thing for the team.

We got rid of Stroud, Evans, Whitner and Poz this year rather than last year- what's the difference? We should have just done it last year and gotten the young guys more reps. We were going to do it anyway.




What did they offer the POS? Did they offer Whitner after the end of last season? Hell, I don't like the POS AT ALL, but at the right price he could still be a serviceable back-up. Whitner is also still serviceable, so why not do the appropriate PR and make the offer? You're always *****ing about players not wanting to come here, how the hell do you think it would've went over here and around the league if at some point, last spring OR this summer, the FO had just said '**** 'em! Let 'em all walk!'

Whitner has always acted like a dick and underperformed here. Poz didn't fit the system. If you're saying they should have offered contracts (and potentially get stuck with) guys they DIDN'T want so that maybe guys they do want will want to come here, that's absurd. "COME TO BUFFALO! WE REWARD MEDIOCRITY!" I don't think that's the message they want to send.



:rofl: What do you think, a 'good' front office has a 12 step plan that they follow come hell or high water, and everything just flows exactly the way they planned? Get a clue. Every business model/game plan has to have some contigency/flexibility, because **** just doesn't happen the way you think it should all of the time.

Jesus Christ...Sit back, pop a beer, take a breath and actually try to read and disseminate some of the *****es and rants you throw out there from an objective standpoint and you might start to understand how ****ing cluelees you sound sometimes.

"Waaaah! The dumbasses tried and failed to sign the POS and got caught with their pants down!" Never mind that they almost immediately signed Burnett, or that they have spent at least four draft picks on LBers the last two seasons. Never mind that the entire front seven has been completely re-vamped in just over one full season of play.

"Waaah! They should have traded Evans last season!" Never mind that he was the only WR on the team with any starting experience.

"Waaah! Ralph's a cheap, meddling **** and it's all his fault!" Never mind that you pretty much have already placed the blame on the other dumbasses who have been in charge over the years (Donahoe, Brandon, Levy, Jauron, Mularkey, etc etc etc.) Make up your ****ing mind and stick to it, will ya?

Piss and moan...***** and rag. Rinse. Repeat. Blah, blah, blah.

EVANS IS THE ONLY WR WITH ANY STARTING EXPERIENCE ON THE TEAM NOW!

They didn't sign Burnett- they lost Burnett because they were too busy fumbling around with rookies. They signed Barnett.

And who do you think has the final say in hiring all those other dumbasses that I placed blame on? The buck stops at the top. If you think that my complaints about Ralph are just me *****ing, then you're delusional.

And you say I'm clueless... what a ****ing joke.

[YardRat]

Why are the Bills the only team in the NFL that needs an ENTIRE YEAR to evaluate guys in a "new system." Teams cut guys and pass on drafting or signing good players every year because they "don't fit the system." In fact, I've heard it tossed around here as a legitimate reason behind personnel decisions in the past. But now Nix needs a full year to evaluate guys in the new schemes? That's just ridiculous on an epic level.

If you don't understand that it's part of the evaluation process that just about EVERY TEAM IN THE league goes through to some degree, than I can't help you. Yes, on this point you would be clueless.



I've never liked Whitner and I always thought Poz was mediocre. I wouldn't have complained one bit about losing those guys, and I never cared to give Poz a chance in the 3-4. Since we switched, I HOPED it would help him because I want the team to win, but I never thought it would happen. Evans and Stroud... well, that might have gotten more of a reaction from me, but Stroud proved he was worthless last year anyway, so it would have been the right call.

Bull-****ing-****.


More importantly, though, IT"S NOT ABOUT ME ON HOW I WOULD HAVE REACTED. And it's not about pleasing the majority. It's about doing the right thing for the team.

Just because YOU don't think it's the right thing doesn't mean it isn't the right thing for the team. Do I have to go look up all of your stupid-ass rants about how the dumbasses didn't have a clue because they were starting KW at NT? Should they have cut his ass last season also before evaluating him in the new system?


We got rid of Stroud, Evans, Whitner and Poz this year rather than last year- what's the difference? We should have just done it last year and gotten the young guys more reps. We were going to do it anyway.


And we kept Williams, Florence, Byrd, etc because we found out they just might fit the system. What the hell did you want to do...just cut the entire ****ing team because YOU don't think they can play in a 3-4?


Whitner has always acted like a dick and underperformed here. Poz didn't fit the system. If you're saying they should have offered contracts (and potentially get stuck with) guys they DIDN'T want so that maybe guys they do want will want to come here, that's absurd. "COME TO BUFFALO! WE REWARD MEDIOCRITY!" I don't think that's the message they want to send.


Yes. You offer a guy a contract, low-balled, and let him walk on his own instead of kicking his ass out of the door, and are able to say publicly "Yeah, we wanted him, but somebody wanted him more." It saves face for the player and for the organization. If you can't acknowledge that as being part of the business, then not only are you clueless but also naive.



EVANS IS THE ONLY WR WITH ANY STARTING EXPERIENCE ON THE TEAM NOW!

The term 'clueless' has been mentioned, right?


They didn't sign Burnett- they lost Burnett because they were too busy fumbling around with rookies. They signed Barnett.

My bad, a typo. How egregious.


And who do you think has the final say in hiring all those other dumbasses that I placed blame on? The buck stops at the top. If you think that my complaints about Ralph are just me *****ing, then you're delusional.

Granted. Won't argue that point with you. Ralph's biggest flaw has been his hires, and that has been mostly consistent (consistently poor) over the long haul.

[X-Era]

You don't tank a season because you target someone in draft. You tank it because that's where you are in the process of building up.

I don't want them to go out get the old RG or RT because they don't serve our building strategy at all at this point. We need to play the young guys we have to find out where they are. And if we are worse off because of the management are wrong about the young guys they got, the NFL draft is set up in such a way to help you.

The key is to have a good drafting front office that in sync with the coaching staff.And what happens when your young guys develop into solid players or more and want the going rate?

[X-Era]

Listen,
I'm glad that we have confident in our young players, and I really hope they develop for us.

But the BOTTOM LINE is... the Bills have almost $30 million available in cap room. They have publicly admitted that right tackle is a weak point and could use an upgrade. Depth was clearly a problem last year, and looks to be that way this year.

WHY are we not bringing in some more talent?
Do you really believe that out of the hundreds of free agent tackles available, that only Tyson Clabo could be better than Erik Pears? That nobody on the market could be an asset to the poor depth we have at o-line?

If we want to re-sign Fitz, Stevie and Kyle Williams during the season, great. But I'm sure there will still be plenty of space available, especially after saying goodbye to Lee Evans and when we cut Maybin.

The problem is... this team is reluctant to spend money.
They don't completely refuse - there are enough good signings in the past to prove that - but as a whole, they don't want to be a team that uses every resource to make themselves better. And for a team that has NEVER won the Super Bowl, that is unacceptable.Exactly.

Getting viable vets to start would not hinder the development of a player if the staff is competent. When the young guy earns the starting job, give it to him.

Right now we are sub-par at RG and RT and we have little to no depth. Inaction is sabotage at those positions. Can Pears and Urbik become solid starters? Sure. But benching there asses when we have someone better might light a fire too. Did I mention we might actually be a better team by doing that? That it may lead to more wins? Did I mention our depth gets way better if we sign a vet or two and the young guys earn and keep the job?

There is no downside to starting players who are worthy to start and any team that wants to win games would do so.

Do you think Belicheck would start Pears and Urbik?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Even a losing record can constitute an improvement over a 4-win season.

I'll grant that some people (myself included at times) are illogically optimistic. But there are also times when people (yourself included at times) are illogically negative. The key is being honest about BOTH sides - positions they're improving at and positions that need to be improved. Kyle Williams and Merriman are far from the only guys we can get excited about. At the least, it's interesting to me to see what players could do well, even if I don't expect it.

People in general on here, especially after the Evans trade, seem to assume what the results on the field will be this year. If we do have a 4-12 season, I'll be right with you, Op, but until that happens, I think it's best to wait and see how the team does on the field before assuming anything at this point.

I've never understood the reasoning behind the "realism" thing, as if to say the rest of us are in some kind of La La Land.
I mean, the NFL, after all, is definitely an entertainment fantasy land. If you want to be a "realist" and take it so damn seriously as to take the fun out of it, who is being more truly realistic?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Also, I like the idea of stocking up on draft picks. The more darts you throw, the more chance you have at hitting the bullseye. I also think these guys are better dart players than the last guys.

[X-Era]

Even a losing record can constitute an improvement over a 4-win season.

I'll grant that some people (myself included at times) are illogically optimistic. But there are also times when people (yourself included at times) are illogically negative. The key is being honest about BOTH sides - positions they're improving at and positions that need to be improved. Kyle Williams and Merriman are far from the only guys we can get excited about. At the least, it's interesting to me to see what players could do well, even if I don't expect it.

People in general on here, especially after the Evans trade, seem to assume what the results on the field will be this year. If we do have a 4-12 season, I'll be right with you, Op, but until that happens, I think it's best to wait and see how the team does on the field before assuming anything at this point.Personally, I don't think cutting Evans will have a huge impact on wins and losses. It's not about that for me. It's about knowing you have glaring needs and doing nothing about them before the season starts. I don't see this team re-investing when they get salary back. That makes no sense to me on a 4 and 12 team. Sure, I love watching prospects and young guys as much as the next guy. But I'm not ready to sacrifice wins because we wanted to develop them. This is not a developmental league. If the Bills want to become that, I'd propose becoming part of a developmental league. I;m nto interested in that. Is it a part of what must be done? Yes. But we should invest in some vets in areas where it's shaky and where the young guys look to be a long way away from being solid. I'm surprised that so many are good with Urbik and Pears and no depth on the OL with 20+ mill in cap room.

And, I didn't see anyone Sat. night that looked so strong that they easily replace Evans... Just sayin.

[X-Era]

Also, I like the idea of stocking up on draft picks. The more darts you throw, the more chance you have at hitting the bullseye. I also think these guys are better dart players than the last guys.Disagree and I think the Pats make the argument that that's not true. Icky and I went back and forth on this before. I'm not interested in doing it again but that isn't necessarily true IMO.

[psubills62]

Personally, I don't think cutting Evans will have a huge impact on wins and losses. It's not about that for me. It's about knowing you have glaring needs and doing nothing about them before the season starts. I don't see this team re-investing when they get salary back. That makes no sense to me on a 4 and 12 team. Sure, I love watching prospects and young guys as much as the next guy. But I'm not ready to sacrifice wins because we wanted to develop them. This is not a developmental league. If the Bills want to become that, I'd propose becoming part of a developmental league. I;m nto interested in that. Is it a part of what must be done? Yes. But we should invest in some vets in areas where it's shaky and where the young guys look to be a long way away from being solid. I'm surprised that so many are good with Urbik and Pears and no depth on the OL with 20+ mill in cap room.

And, I didn't see anyone Sat. night that looked so strong that they easily replace Evans... Just sayin.
I understand that, and to be honest there's only a couple people that are "good with Urbik and Pears." I'm not happy with our current OL, and I don't think Nix and co. are either. The difference is that they only had 1, maybe 2 targets, whereas we wanted everyone in sight. Did they make the right decision? I don't think so, but I'm willing to wait and see what they do through the next draft to improve the OL.

The team may just reinvest the money into guys we currently have, like Williams, Johnson, and Fitzpatrick, among others. It's not a big deal to me right now. They know that in two years they need to meet the cap floor, and it won't be feasible to just stay 20m under that right up until 2013.

Really? Judging things off of one preseason game? Maybe it's just me, I don't understand some peoples' mentalities without even seeing how real games have gone. If they start tanking games consistently during the season, I'll be right there with you guys. But I think maybe people should reserve some judgment until we see what happens on the field in a real game.

[X-Era]

I understand that, and to be honest there's only a couple people that are "good with Urbik and Pears." I'm not happy with our current OL, and I don't think Nix and co. are either. The difference is that they only had 1, maybe 2 targets, whereas we wanted everyone in sight. Did they make the right decision? I don't think so, but I'm willing to wait and see what they do through the next draft to improve the OL.

The team may just reinvest the money into guys we currently have, like Williams, Johnson, and Fitzpatrick, among others. It's not a big deal to me right now. They know that in two years they need to meet the cap floor, and it won't be feasible to just stay 20m under that right up until 2013.

Really? Judging things off of one preseason game? Maybe it's just me, I don't understand some peoples' mentalities without even seeing how real games have gone. If they start tanking games consistently during the season, I'll be right there with you guys. But I think maybe people should reserve some judgment until we see what happens on the field in a real game.

1) I'm sure they will extend some guys and they should if they are smart. But when you're 20+ under the cap, I think you need to do that and then some. There were and are plenty more than 2 or 3 guys who are better than Urbik and Pears. They did nothing outside of going after Clabo. He was not the only viable option and still isn't IMO. No way I will ever believe that the only options are Pears or Clabo. Hell, even if you say Pears is good enough, you still have serious depth problems. Wrotto and Howard are now better than everyone not named Clabo too? No way man. The lack on activity tells you they have little to no intention of addressing the serious problem. I hope it ends up just fine but I really doubt it.

2) I'm not willing to sacrifice any games to likely find out that Pears and Urbik are not starter material. And, in a twisted way, I give credit to Nix and Gailey that they already know they aren't. They simply are choosing to do nothing when they know it may cost them.

[psubills62]

1) I'm sure they will extend some guys and they should if they are smart. But when you're 20+ under the cap, I think you need to do that and then some. There were and are plenty more than 2 or 3 guys who are better than Urbik and Pears. They did nothing outside of going after Clabo. He was not the only viable option and still isn't IMO. No way I will ever believe that the only options are Pears or Clabo. Hell, even if you say Pears is good enough, you still have serious depth problems. Wrotto and Howard are now better than everyone not named Clabo too? No way man. The lack on activity tells you they have little to no intention of addressing the serious problem. I hope it ends up just fine but I really doubt it.

2) I'm not willing to sacrifice any games to likely find out that Pears and Urbik are not starter material. And, in a twisted way, I give credit to Nix and Gailey that they already know they aren't. They simply are choosing to do nothing when they know it may cost them.
1) You're preaching to the choir, here, X. There were guys I wanted on the OL too. It's obvious they didn't feel that anyone out there was an upgrade or at least a worthwhile upgrade. They have little to no intention right now, IMO. But they've been plenty active in the last couple years in terms of trying to upgrade the RT spot. That's how we got Pears, Wrotto, Rinehart, and then they drafted Hairston and hotly pursued Clabo. In my opinion, it would seem that they aren't going to simply sign someone just to upgrade it...when they upgrade it, they're going to do so on their own terms and in a big way. Clabo was easily the best upgrade out there and in my opinion, was at least a tier above the rest.

2) I think Urbik's lack of starting talent is fast becoming realized, and I'd be willing to bet that Hang or Rinehart takes over. Not exactly the best solution, but probably better than Urbik. And since Pears reportedly came in 20 pounds heavier, I'm willing to give him a chance at RT for now.

I don't know why we're arguing. We both agree that the OL needs upgrades. I'm just willing to wait and see what they do about it next year. I'm not very happy that they didn't get something done this year, but I can accept it for now, since they've obviously been concentrating mainly on the defense. You obviously don't want to accept it, which is fine. You can do what you want. I have confidence that at some point along the line they're going to reinvest that money.

[X-Era]

1) You're preaching to the choir, here, X. There were guys I wanted on the OL too. It's obvious they didn't feel that anyone out there was an upgrade or at least a worthwhile upgrade. They have little to no intention right now, IMO. But they've been plenty active in the last couple years in terms of trying to upgrade the RT spot. That's how we got Pears, Wrotto, Rinehart, and then they drafted Hairston and hotly pursued Clabo. In my opinion, it would seem that they aren't going to simply sign someone just to upgrade it...when they upgrade it, they're going to do so on their own terms and in a big way. Clabo was easily the best upgrade out there and in my opinion, was at least a tier above the rest.

2) I think Urbik's lack of starting talent is fast becoming realized, and I'd be willing to bet that Hang or Rinehart takes over. Not exactly the best solution, but probably better than Urbik. And since Pears reportedly came in 20 pounds heavier, I'm willing to give him a chance at RT for now.

I don't know why we're arguing. We both agree that the OL needs upgrades. I'm just willing to wait and see what they do about it next year. I'm not very happy that they didn't get something done this year, but I can accept it for now, since they've obviously been concentrating mainly on the defense. You obviously don't want to accept it, which is fine. You can do what you want. I have confidence that at some point along the line they're going to reinvest that money.Just annoyed. I see the losses and injuries coming and when we have or had a chance to do something we didn't.

If you see the iceberg in front of you and choose not to change course isn't that negligence? Or is it manslaughter... OK, teamslaughter.

On Evans, it may end up being difficult to double Stevie when we run the 4 and 5 wide set so much... It may not be as much of a hit as some think. But, I have now placed WR as a top need again... I hope someone steps up though.

[X-Era]

Jon Stinchcomb just got released another guy who, when healthy, can help.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1069/jon-stinchcomb