We should try and get Tebow

[Turf]

Denver has Tebow buried as their third string and hes' better than anything we have. He could be the franchise guy we're looking for. We have cap room, and I'm sure he could be pulled away from Denver for the right price. I said it last year, and I'm saying it again, we should and can make a play for him. We need another egotistical SOB at QB again. Haven't had one since Kelly.

[sqad5]

nah, and i say this for almost everybody.We'll pass

[Extremebillsfan247]

The problems with Tebow are that he waits too long for a play to develop, doesn't go through his reads properly, the moment a play looks like it has broken down his first instinct is to run with the ball, and still struggles with snaps from under center which is why he is 3rd on the depth chart in Denver. Some of these things can be worked on. But he has a lot of the same issues that JP Losman had. Just a personal observation. If he became a free agent, I'd take a look at him. I wouldn't waste a draft pick to try to trade for him though unless I thought I could get him for a low pick, and Denver probably wouldn't go for it. JMO

[Philagape]

Is this a joke?

[MikeInRoch]

This is one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on here...

[hydro]

Man we are getting desperate as a fan base :ill:

[Philagape]

It's amazing how one can start with "Denver has Tebow buried as their third string," and just continue like that's an "oh by the way" statement.

So, I'll start the conversation again:
Denver has Tebow buried as their third string
Conversation stops there.

If Tebow is better than anything we have, then Brady Quinn must be WAY better than anything we have, since he's passed Tebow. Let's get him instead!

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Silly to even think this.

[ddaryl]

What, and blow our chance at the Luck sweepstakes

[more cowbell]

I'm not sure...I think I'd rather have Brohm........

[Night Train]

I'd rather pull Travis Brown off the Fedex truck.

[acehole]

Denver has Tebow buried as their third string and hes' better than anything we have. He could be the franchise guy we're looking for. We have cap room, and I'm sure he could be pulled away from Denver for the right price. I said it last year, and I'm saying it again, we should and can make a play for him. We need another egotistical SOB at QB again. Haven't had one since Kelly.

tebow needs time....but he has bills all over him.

[Jeff1220]

He's probably better than Thigpen right now.

[TacklingDummy]

Denver has Tebow buried as their third string and hes' better than anything we have. He could be the franchise guy we're looking for. We have cap room, and I'm sure he could be pulled away from Denver for the right price. I said it last year, and I'm saying it again, we should and can make a play for him. We need another egotistical SOB at QB again. Haven't had one since Kelly.

Give up the useless 4th rounder the Bills just received for Lee.

Watching Tebow suck would atleast give Bills fans something to watch.

[OpIv37]

I'd let Brad Smith play QB before going after Tebow. He'll be just as inept at a much lower price.

[YardRat]

No, we shouldn't.

[mrbojanglezs]

shut up

[El Guapo]

Is this a joke?

Yes, and a bad joke at that.

[Bill Cody]

I'd rather have him than Pryor. I'd rather have him than Thigpen. He's a longshot to make it as a starter but I don't rule it out. He does have a spark about him. My issues with him are mainly lack of experience taking direct snaps and poor mechanics throwing. He could fix those, eventually and he seems to be a hard worker. Put me down for a 6th. Would Denver take that at this point? No. Discussion over.

[Ed]

What, and blow our chance at the Luck sweepstakes
Actually, starting Tebow would make us a lock for the #1 pick.

[Mski]

i'd rather see us go after Quinn instead, and that doesnt say much

[Ickybaluky]

Tebow is, at best, a long-term project. He has a long way to go and there it is uncertain if he can even play QB. His best position in the NFL might be TE, and I like the guy.

To say he is better than Fitzpatrick is silly. Fitzpatrick may not be a franchise QB, but he has shown he can start and capably lead and NFL offense. I still am critical of his potential because of his accuracy deficiencies, but the guy is a gamer. I doubt there is a better or more ready option out there right now, including somebody else's backup or Pryor.

[Ebenezer]

I'll be blunt. If Tebow was black and full of tattoos and known to cut class and had gotten a couple of girls pregnant and associated with a booster or two then many people wouldn't even think about having him on their team let alone as their QB. But, because he is white, clean cut and ultra religious he gets a free pass at imitating an NFL QB. He is so far away from being a real starting QB that the Bills don't have the time to invest in making him marginal.

[Bill Cody]

I'll be blunt. If Tebow was black and full of tattoos and known to cut class and had gotten a couple of girls pregnant and associated with a booster or two then many people wouldn't even think about having him on their team let alone as their QB. But, because he is white, clean cut and ultra religious he gets a free pass at imitating an NFL QB. He is so far away from being a real starting QB that the Bills don't have the time to invest in making him marginal.

Um...Cam Newton may have never gone to class, cheated repeatedly, may have gotten money (or his dad did) for transferring to Auburn, etc and he's the number one pick in the draft with some glaring issues with his game. This isn't racial IMO.

Tebow is one of the top 5 college players of all time based on success and production. He is a long shot to make it in the NFL as a starter but whether he makes it or not has nothing to do with his religion or hairstyle. Not even the Tebowmaniacs were under the delusion he was going to step right in and play. Nothing's changed.

[Bert102176]

Denver has Tebow buried as their third string and hes' better than anything we have. He could be the franchise guy we're looking for. We have cap room, and I'm sure he could be pulled away from Denver for the right price. I said it last year, and I'm saying it again, we should and can make a play for him. We need another egotistical SOB at QB again. Haven't had one since Kelly.


I agree and read on espn that he maybee on the cut list

[Bill Cody]

Tebow is, at best, a long-term project. He has a long way to go and there it is uncertain if he can even play QB. His best position in the NFL might be TE, and I like the guy.



No. He's either a QB or he's nothing. Tebow is a leader, noone can debate that. TE's are not leaders. You move him to TE you remove half of what he brings to the table.

[better days]

I'll be blunt. If Tebow was black and full of tattoos and known to cut class and had gotten a couple of girls pregnant and associated with a booster or two then many people wouldn't even think about having him on their team let alone as their QB. But, because he is white, clean cut and ultra religious he gets a free pass at imitating an NFL QB. He is so far away from being a real starting QB that the Bills don't have the time to invest in making him marginal.

Being ultra religous is a much bigger handicap than being black, full of tats & getting a couple girls pregnant. More people hate Tebow because of his religion than people hate those type of black guys.

If ANY team has the time to develop Tebow it is the Bills, they aren't going to be competitive until Ralph dies.

[justasportsfan]

The only reason to get Tebow right now is to piss off broncos fans who bought his Jersey.

[justasportsfan]

I'll be blunt. If Tebow was black and full of tattoos and known to cut class and had gotten a couple of girls pregnant and associated with a booster or two then many people wouldn't even think about having him on their team let alone as their QB. But, because he is white, clean cut and ultra religious he gets a free pass at imitating an NFL QB. He is so far away from being a real starting QB that the Bills don't have the time to invest in making him marginal.


I'll be blunt. NO!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I'll be blunt. If Tebow was black and full of tattoos and known to cut class and had gotten a couple of girls pregnant and associated with a booster or two then many people wouldn't even think about having him on their team let alone as their QB. But, because he is white, clean cut and ultra religious he gets a free pass at imitating an NFL QB. He is so far away from being a real starting QB that the Bills don't have the time to invest in making him marginal.
You're right. If Tebow were like that, he'd be a starting running back prospect. But because whites aren't allowed at that position (unless you're the Browns, apparently), he has to try at QB instead.

[Bert102176]

I wouldn't mind Jimmy Clausen

[Bill Cody]

Being ultra religous is a much bigger handicap than being black, full of tats & getting a couple girls pregnant. More people hate Tebow because of his religion than people hate those type of black guys.

If ANY team has the time to develop Tebow it is the Bills, they aren't going to be competitive until Ralph dies.

Personally I'd prefer not to know what anyone's religious beliefs are, I think a lot of people get turned off by guys like Tebow that force you to hear/see what they believe. On the other hand I don't like tats or guys that don't know enough to throw a raincoat on it either. Not sure either option is popular with the masses.

I tend to agree with you that we're in a good position to develop a QB though.

[better days]

The only reason to get Tebow right now is to piss off broncos fans who bought his Jersey.

I think Jacksonville made a big mistake not drafting Tebow. He would have filled that stadium for a number of years, they could even have removed the tarps.

His fans in Florida would have given him time to develop & the only way Tebow will ever be successful is to have an offense tailored to suit his talents & ability.

[Bill Cody]

I wouldn't mind Jimmy Clausen

Apparently you're unaware of his hand size.

[DraftBoy]

Stop it. Now.

[Bill Cody]

I think Jacksonville made a big mistake not drafting Tebow. He would have filled that stadium for a number of years, they could even have removed the tarps.

His fans in Florida would have given him time to develop & the only way Tebow will ever be successful is to have an offense tailored to suit his talents & ability.

I think Jacksonville was interested in taking him. But Denver took him a couple rounds early. You can't blame Jacksonville for that.

[trapezeus]

Wow, so the bills can go from stockpiling punt returners to stockpiling QB's who could be great in the wildcat.

Brad SMith
Josh Nesbit
Tim Tebow

We just need one more before the NFL then outlaws the wildcat.

As for tebow himself, no thanks. we now are closer than ever to getting a real QB. Why bring in a guy who can't get out of the 3 spot on a team that also went 4-12 last year.

Don't give up picks. not that good still.

[better days]

I think Jacksonville was interested in taking him. But Denver took him a couple rounds early. You can't blame Jacksonville for that.

Agreed but if any team trades for Tebow, it should be the Jags. I don't believe Gabbert is the answer there.

[Bill Cody]

Wow, so the bills can go from stockpiling punt returners to stockpiling QB's who could be great in the wildcat.

Brad SMith
Josh Nesbit
Tim Tebow

We just need one more before the NFL then outlaws the wildcat.

As for tebow himself, no thanks. we now are closer than ever to getting a real QB. Why bring in a guy who can't get out of the 3 spot on a team that also went 4-12 last year.

Don't give up picks. not that good still.


I'm not really a Tebow fan. But you guys that seem to revel in dumping on the guy need to slow down a little. Here's what I mean:

NFL QB is the hardest position in all of sports. You have to have the mind of a computer hard drive, incredible instincts, athletic ability and leadership qualities. Is it any wonder how few really make it? And usually QB's fail before they succeed, sometimes they fail more than once.

Quinn is a perfect example. Highly touted, productive college player falls on his face in Cleveland. Now he's showing signs in his 5th year in the league of finally getting it. Is it really that shocking he can outperform a guy like Tebow that took only a handful of snaps directly under center in college and had a throwing motion that was longer than John Daly's backswing?

Tebow may never make it. He's not worth a high pick to get. But when you have the assortment of flotsam and jetsam we're featuring on this roster it makes me laugh how quick you guys are to say no way no how.

[Bill Cody]

Agreed but if any team trades for Tebow, it should be the Jags. I don't believe Gabbert is the answer there.

idk. They have to give Gabbert EVERY chance to succeed with the millions they're investing. Tebow would instantly be the most popular guy on the team in JVille, at least until he actually started playing. You bring him in there now the pressure on Gabbert goes up to being on the surface of Mars, not too fair.

[better days]

idk. They have to give Gabbert EVERY chance to succeed with the millions they're investing. Tebow would instantly be the most popular guy on the team in JVille, at least until he actually started playing. You bring him in there now the pressure on Gabbert goes up to being on the surface of Mars, not too fair.

Well the Jags don't have that much invested in Gabbert because of the new rookie wage scale. I guarantee If Tebow were a Jag he would bring enough money into that franchise to pay for his & Gabberts salary combined.

Gabbert will take years to develop as well & most likely only ever be a back up quality QB. Jags fans will not be as patient with Gabbert to develop as they would be with Tebow.

[trapezeus]

i'm not denying that we have crap on the roster, but i'm not interested in bringing in a guy by trading a pick to see if he can marginally do better here.

additionally, if the defensive draft last year worked, we have time to pick offense only this year. and i see QB as the obvious first need and OL as the second need.

Tebow succeeded as a runner on a good team. i don't have film on him or remember his every throw, but i don't think his athleticm translates into the NFL.

if he is a free pickup, let's go for it. but otherwise, i think we are as close to rock bottom as ever and we'll get that number 1 pick this year. we have the chance to get a QB that we want and can mold from scratch.

[better days]

i'm not denying that we have crap on the roster, but i'm not interested in bringing in a guy by trading a pick to see if he can marginally do better here.

additionally, if the defensive draft last year worked, we have time to pick offense only this year. and i see QB as the obvious first need and OL as the second need.

Tebow succeeded as a runner on a good team. i don't have film on him or remember his every throw, but i don't think his athleticm translates into the NFL.

if he is a free pickup, let's go for it. but otherwise, i think we are as close to rock bottom as ever and we'll get that number 1 pick this year. we have the chance to get a QB that we want and can mold from scratch.

I think you are forgetting the need at LB. This LB group is being held together with bailing wire.

[acehole]

Good post.

I am somewhere in between.
I think he has intangibles that you can't put a grade
on or measure at a combine. He is perfect for this offense
as far as skill set. I would be willing to give a #2 for him and
take a chance. Only if we don't have #1 over all pick next year.
The we can go linemen Tbow Linemen.


i'm not denying that we have crap on the roster, but i'm not interested in bringing in a guy by trading a pick to see if he can marginally do better here.

additionally, if the defensive draft last year worked, we have time to pick offense only this year. and i see QB as the obvious first need and OL as the second need.

Tebow succeeded as a runner on a good team. i don't have film on him or remember his every throw, but i don't think his athleticm translates into the NFL.

if he is a free pickup, let's go for it. but otherwise, i think we are as close to rock bottom as ever and we'll get that number 1 pick this year. we have the chance to get a QB that we want and can mold from scratch.

[Ickybaluky]

Well the Jags don't have that much invested in Gabbert because of the new rookie wage scale. I guarantee If Tebow were a Jag he would bring enough money into that franchise to pay for his & Gabberts salary combined.

Gabbert will take years to develop as well & most likely only ever be a back up quality QB. Jags fans will not be as patient with Gabbert to develop as they would be with Tebow.

Gabbert got a 4-Year/$12M contract that is fully guaranteed.

From what I have read, the Jags are happy with Gabbert. There is no question he will have some adjustment as a rookie, but I thought he looked better than expected against the Patriots. He struggled last week after getting a shot against the 1's, but from what I read he has looked good enough that they expect he may be starting sooner than expected. There is talk they will look into trading Garrard.

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion he will never be more than a backup after only a few weeks of his rookie season.

[Bill Cody]

Well the Jags don't have that much invested in Gabbert because of the new rookie wage scale. I guarantee If Tebow were a Jag he would bring enough money into that franchise to pay for his & Gabberts salary combined.

Gabbert will take years to develop as well & most likely only ever be a back up quality QB. Jags fans will not be as patient with Gabbert to develop as they would be with Tebow.

12m fully guaranteed isn't a lot? I beg to differ. And I'm not so sure how many ticket Tebow sells until he's not holding a clip board.

Gabbert has very limited experience taking snaps under center. But he has more polished throwing mechanics. I'd rate Tebow the bigger project but it's not that different now that TT has a year of pro experience and coaching. I'm not sure about Gabbert. I watched the film with him on John Gruden's QB camp and I alternated between "wow" and "bust".

[trapezeus]

no doubt we need depth at LB's as well.

but if the bills can say, "to hell with WR,DB and RB for a year, let's get OL, 1 qb (the right one), and lbs, we'll have helped the current roster of WR and RBs.

[better days]

Gabbert got a 4-Year/$12M contract that is fully guaranteed.

From what I have read, the Jags are happy with Gabbert. There is no question he will have some adjustment as a rookie, but I thought he looked better than expected against the Patriots. He struggled last week after getting a shot against the 1's, but from what I read he has looked good enough that they expect he may be starting sooner than expected. There is talk they will look into trading Garrard.

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion he will never be more than a backup after only a few weeks of his rookie season.

I am judging from his college career. He looked good in preseason as well how can you make any judgement that he will be a good starter from that? 4year/ 12 Mill is a contract that would not be out of line to pay a good back up QB.

[better days]

12m fully guaranteed isn't a lot? I beg to differ. And I'm not so sure how many ticket Tebow sells until he's not holding a clip board.

Gabbert has very limited experience taking snaps under center. But he has more polished throwing mechanics. I'd rate Tebow the bigger project but it's not that different now that TT has a year of pro experience and coaching. I'm not sure about Gabbert. I watched the film with him on John Gruden's QB camp and I alternated between "wow" and "bust".

12 Mill over 4years for a QB is NOTHING. The Titans paid over $7 Mill to Hasselbeck for ONE year. $12 Mill for 4 years is back up money.

[Bill Cody]

12 Mill over 4years for a QB is NOTHING. The Titans paid over $7 Mill to Hasselbeck for ONE year. $12 Mill for 4 years is back up money.

What Hasselbeck got as a veteran isn't too relevant. 12 large is not nothing and besides every team hates to admit mistakes in the first round, it hurts. Gabbert is going to get plenty of chances trust me- he would have to look like the 2nd coming of Akili Smith not to get a couple season's worth of chances at minimum.

[Blogabills]

Man we are getting desperate as a fan base :ill:

One desperation post by a fan does not make a desperate fan base.

[Blogabills]

I am judging from his college career. He looked good in preseason as well how can you make any judgement that he will be a good starter from that? 4year/ 12 Mill is a contract that would not be out of line to pay a good back up QB.

Why would you judge anything from his college career as being relevant to how he might develop? Short of being unable to throw it 20 yards down the field, it doesn't matter.

Or shall we run down the list of Heisman winning QBs who never made it in the league?

[Blogabills]

Good post.

I am somewhere in between.
I think he has intangibles that you can't put a grade
on or measure at a combine. He is perfect for this offense
as far as skill set. I would be willing to give a #2 for him and
take a chance. Only if we don't have #1 over all pick next year.
The we can go linemen Tbow Linemen.

I dunno about "perfect" for this offense. He'd be good in it but his accuracy has to get better (and yes I'm aware Fitzy's does too, but Tebow's is undebatably a problem.

Let's face it, if he was much of much he wouldn't be losing to Brady Quinn.

[better days]

Why would you judge anything from his college career as being relevant to how he might develop? Short of being unable to throw it 20 yards down the field, it doesn't matter.

Or shall we run down the list of Heisman winning QBs who never made it in the league?

Well, how can you judge anything from PRESEASON as being relevent? I could be wrong, I just don't think Gabbert will be all that much, time will tell.

[Bill Cody]

Why would you judge anything from his college career as being relevant to how he might develop? Short of being unable to throw it 20 yards down the field, it doesn't matter.

Or shall we run down the list of Heisman winning QBs who never made it in the league?

So how should we judge college players coming into the league? By height?

[better days]

What Hasselbeck got as a veteran isn't too relevant. 12 large is not nothing and besides every team hates to admit mistakes in the first round, it hurts. Gabbert is going to get plenty of chances trust me- he would have to look like the 2nd coming of Akili Smith not to get a couple season's worth of chances at minimum.

What is relevent is how much money back up QB's make. $3 Mill/yr is not much for a good back up QB & therefore it is nothing.

[dannyek71]

I'd trade a 6th for him

[better days]

I'd trade a 6th for him

I'd trade the Ravens 4th for him, that is almost a 5th anyway.

[acehole]

One desperation post by a fan does not make a desperate fan base.

Not all of us think this is desperate.

Tebow was/is great fit for this offense and city.
The powers that be in denver and many other
teams during the draft thought highly of him.

Played very nice in pre-season and can get better in time.

Durable. Smart. Can run. Can throw in winds (Which is why Denver liked him).

Using a pick next year on a qb is not that different then grabbing one with one camp under his belt on a very well coached team. Some would say better.

[trapezeus]

but not tebow. he simply will never be anything than what you see of him now. a guy who will tuck and run first at the first signs of trouble.

he'll probably be a guy who will get up after crazy hits, but he isn't needed. we already have 2 wildcat qb's on this team.

[Blogabills]

Not all of us think this is desperate.

Tebow was/is great fit for this offense and city.
The powers that be in denver and many other
teams during the draft thought highly of him.

Played very nice in pre-season and can get better in time.

Durable. Smart. Can run. Can throw in winds (Which is why Denver liked him).

Using a pick next year on a qb is not that different then grabbing one with one camp under his belt on a very well coached team. Some would say better.

But from what I can tell most didn't think highly enough of him to make him a 3rd round pick. If Denver passed who knows how much farther he would've fell?

Pre-season performances are nice, and don't mean absolutely nothing, but neither do they mean all that much.

Generally I'll trust a team's staff (excluding the Raiders) when they slide QBs up and down the depth chart. They see them every day in every circumstance on every kind of throw. If the Broncos staff hasn't seen reason to put him ahead of Brady Quinn, then by definition he'd be a castoff from them, which to me sounds like desperation.

But I can see how it might give hope around here, something that is sorely lacking.

[acehole]

Or it simple means orton has the most experience.
Quinn has 2nd most and Tebow rookie has least.

Usually how it works.

They cant smash quinns ego anymore by demoting him yet.

They can't crown Tebow as they want to keep rookies working hard to improve.

Keep an eye on the situation.


But from what I can tell most didn't think highly enough of him to make him a 3rd round pick. If Denver passed who knows how much farther he would've fell?

Pre-season performances are nice, and don't mean absolutely nothing, but neither do they mean all that much.

Generally I'll trust a team's staff (excluding the Raiders) when they slide QBs up and down the depth chart. They see them every day in every circumstance on every kind of throw. If the Broncos staff hasn't seen reason to put him ahead of Brady Quinn, then by definition he'd be a castoff from them, which to me sounds like desperation.

But I can see how it might give hope around here, something that is sorely lacking.

[Blogabills]

Or it simple means orton has the most experience.
Quinn has 2nd most and Tebow rookie has least.

Usually how it works.

They cant smash quinns ego anymore by demoting him yet.

They can't crown Tebow as they want to keep rookies working hard to improve.

Keep an eye on the situation.

I imagine I have as much an eye on the situation as any big-NFL-but-non-Broncos-fan.

You honestly think the player with the "most experience" usually gets chosen for that reason over a touted draft pick? That QB depth charts are "usually" defined by how experienced the players are?

How many NFL depth charts this year alone have rookie QBs over more experienced players?

You think they care about Quinn's ego when they didn't care about Orton's when they floated his name to Miami? I don't think it's terribly often that an NFL team worries about a backup QB's ego. (That's kinda, by definition, part of the job.)

You think rookies routinely sit because they can't be crowned? Do you think Dareus should be sitting right now? How long is enough until they've worked hard enough?

I'm sure you follow the situation the same as me, but you could also make those points with no working knowledge of the situation whatsoever. It's just not terribly persuasive.

[better days]

I imagine I have as much an eye on the situation as any big-NFL-but-non-Broncos-fan.

You honestly think it's that simple? That the player with the "most experience" usually gets chosen for that reason over a touted draft pick? That QB depth charts are "usually" defined by how experienced the players are?

You think they care about Quinn's ego when they didn't care about Orton's when they floated his name to Miami?

You think rookies routinely sit because they can't be crowned? Do you think Dareus should be sitting right now?

I'm sorry, but you could make those points with no working knowledge of the situation whatsoever. It's not terribly persuasive.

Dareus is not a QB. Everyone knows QB's take the longest to adjust to the NFL because it is the hardest position to play in the NFL.

Orton is in the last year of his contract & is nothing more than an average QB at best.

If the future QB of the Broncos is on the team already, it is either Quinn or Tebow. Orton will be gone by next year.

[Blogabills]

Dareus is not a QB. Everyone knows QB's take the longest to adjust to the NFL because it is the hardest position to play in the NFL.

Orton is in the last year of his contract & is nothing more than an average QB at best.

If the future QB of the Broncos is on the team already, it is either Quinn or Tebow. Orton will be gone by next year.

My point wasn't that QB isn't a harder position to play as a rookie than DT (I have no doubt about that point - trust me).

The implication was rookies need time to be crowned. Dareus is a rookie who plays well. It is possible. And the timetable on rookie QBs has accelerated, let's face it. We're talking rookie (Gabbert, Dalton, Newton) or 2nd year before people start wondering about a guy these days.

[better days]

My point wasn't that QB isn't a harder position to play as a rookie than DT (I have no doubt about that point - trust me).

The implication was rookies need time to be crowned. Dareus is a rookie who plays well. It is possible. And the timetable on rookie QBs has accelerated, let's face it. We're talking rookie (Gabbert, Dalton, Newton) or 2nd year before people start wondering about a guy these days.

Well, the only young guy on the team at QB is Tebow. After the Broncos are out of contention after about week 8 Tebow or Quinn will probably start depending on which way the Broncos want to go.

If they want to give Tebow a chance & want him to be successful, they will have to tailor the offense to suit his strengths.

[Blogabills]

Well, the only young guy on the team at QB is Tebow. After the Broncos are out of contention after about week 8 Tebow or Quinn will probably start depending on which way the Broncos want to go.

If they want to give Tebow a chance & want him to be successful, they will have to tailor the offense to suit his strengths.

On this we can agree: For Tebow to be successful in the league, some OC will have to tailor an offense for him.

And I can see the point that what Gailey does best as a HC/OC is tailor an offense to meet a QB's strengths.

I just don't like the fact that the people who see him everyday don't seem to have much faith in him.

When the Bills gave up on Maybin, we said "about time", until he got picked up by Rex McFootfetish, at which point some worried we may have acted too soon, or that we should be ashamed that our coaching staff couldn't use him the way a guy like Rex could.

Now, a player that another team could eventually give up on, a castoff like Maybin (though nowhere near as bad), and we're hoping we can.

We all disagree about a lot, but I doubt we'd have much argument that Rex is a better defensive coach than Chan is as an offensive coach, and I'm a big Chan fan.

[tampabay25690]

Im not going to even make a comment on this thread....

The offense they are running this year is not even close to the offense that should be in place for Tim....
But I guess the guy sucks since the media says he #3....

[acehole]

In this situation yes. Orton happens to be the better qb and have the most expeirience. We are talking about this situation specifically.

Very different for defensive players as they can contribute right away or be rotated in early on there careers. Not really sure what your point is. Other then your assumption is he is not very good because he is number three on depth chart is not nessaseraly true based on that point alone.



players
I imagine I have as much an eye on the situation as any big-NFL-but-non-Broncos-fan.

You honestly think the player with the "most experience" usually gets chosen for that reason over a touted draft pick? That QB depth charts are "usually" defined by how experienced the players are?

How many NFL depth charts this year alone have rookie QBs over more experienced players?

You think they care about Quinn's ego when they didn't care about Orton's when they floated his name to Miami? I don't think it's terribly often that an NFL team worries about a backup QB's ego. (That's kinda, by definition, part of the job.)

You think rookies routinely sit because they can't be crowned? Do you think Dareus should be sitting right now? How long is enough until they've worked hard enough?

I'm sure you follow the situation the same as me, but you could also make those points with no working knowledge of the situation whatsoever. It's just not terribly persuasive.

[tampabay25690]

In this situation yes. Orton happens to be the better qb and have the most expeirience. We are talking about this situation specifically.

Very different for defensive players as they can contribute right away or be rotated in early on there careers. Not really sure what your point is. Other then your assumption is he is not very good because he is number three on depth chart is not nessaseraly true based on that point alone.



players


Nicely said....
Agree 100%
Last year when Tim was there he was pretty successfull when he was given the opportunity to play. But this year it seems they are going the safe route with Orton. To be honest Orton is pretty good QB....I actually think he would start in alot of NFL teams this year....Tim will be given a chance and probably sooner then later becasue I don't see Denver doing much this year anyway....
We will see......

[Dujek]

Hell, why not. One more gadget player totally unsuited to every down play to add to the 50 we already have on the squad.

[Blogabills]

In this situation yes. Orton happens to be the better qb and have the most expeirience. We are talking about this situation specifically.

Very different for defensive players as they can contribute right away or be rotated in early on there careers. Not really sure what your point is. Other then your assumption is he is not very good because he is number three on depth chart is not nessaseraly true based on that point alone.



players

But if we are talking about this situation specifically (which didn't seem to be the case when you said that's how teams "generally" handle their QB depth charts) my point was that Orton was ahead on the depth chart because he was better, while you seemed to indicate it was about him having more experience.

I agree he has more experience, but is he the starting QB because of that, or because he's just a better QB? I think that's the main issue here. He's not beating out a QB whom many of us think is a perfectly capable, but not superstar, QB.

And if you agree that it's about being better, then Quinn would logically seem to better than Tebow. But you say he should earn his stripes by working hard. Well, a 3rd string QB gets pretty much no snaps with any offense that isn't the scout team offense. Wouldn't it stand to reason he'd learn more as a 2nd stringer who gets the occasional reps with the 1's if he were better than Quinn, just not as experienced? How is he supposed to gain the experience? Quinn didn't have any before someone just gave him a long-term shot.

[better days]

Well, it is official. Orton has been named the starter for week one. No decision until after preseason about the back up.

[Voltron]

Lets see if we can find some O-line to block before looking for a new QB to ruin ...

[acehole]

I am not saying anything you said....but...

It is simple.

He has done well when given opportunity.

3rd string does not mean you suck.

He would fit what we do here.

He is worth a look at right price...for me up to a 2nd rounder.

The thread is "we should try and get tebow"....my response was I agree to a point.






But if we are talking about this situation specifically (which didn't seem to be the case when you said that's how teams "generally" handle their QB depth charts) my point was that Orton was ahead on the depth chart because he was better, while you seemed to indicate it was about him having more experience.

I agree he has more experience, but is he the starting QB because of that, or because he's just a better QB? I think that's the main issue here. He's not beating out a QB whom many of us think is a perfectly capable, but not superstar, QB.

And if you agree that it's about being better, then Quinn would logically seem to better than Tebow. But you say he should earn his stripes by working hard. Well, a 3rd string QB gets pretty much no snaps with any offense that isn't the scout team offense. Wouldn't it stand to reason he'd learn more as a 2nd stringer who gets the occasional reps with the 1's if he were better than Quinn, just not as experienced? How is he supposed to gain the experience? Quinn didn't have any before someone just gave him a long-term shot.

[Blogabills]

I am not saying anything you said....but...

It is simple.

He has done well when given opportunity.

3rd string does not mean you suck.

He would fit what we do here.

He is worth a look at right price...for me up to a 2nd rounder.

The thread is "we should try and get tebow"....my response was I agree to a point.

I think we're missing each other's point here. The thread is indeed about Tebow, but you did in fact say that's "generally" how this works. I didn't say you said anything you didn't. To me it seemed as if you were justifying where Tebow resides on a depth chart by using other teams as examples, which I thought was a questionable premise to grant you (that "generally" teams start the most experienced).

If I misunderstood you, that's fine, my bad. But to say "generally" and not think others won't interpret that means "other teams" then we've got different definitons of the word "generally."

Your opinion is he's worth a look at the right price. I think almost any player is worth a look at the right price. But a 2nd rounder? He was drafted in the 3rd and hasn't shown anyone anything that suggests he should've been drafted sooner. If they give up on him and cast him off in a trade, I'd say we got suckered and suckered bad if we gave up a higher draft pick to get him than the one that was used to draft him if nothing has changed about him in that time.

And, how could it have? He's taking 3rd string reps now. How much more value could he have gained?

My point wasn't 3rd stringers "suck", as you put it. I said, how is he supposed to get better running scout team offense week after week after week? I still don't know the answer to that. I mean, if that was the way to make it, Gale Gilbert would've been starting back in the 90s for some team, not 3rd stringing the Billls.....

[Bill Cody]

He was drafted in the 3rd and hasn't shown anyone anything that suggests he should've been drafted sooner. If they give up on him and cast him off in a trade, I'd say we got suckered and suckered bad if we gave up a higher draft pick to get him than the one that was used to draft him if nothing has changed about him in that time.



no he wasn't

[Philagape]

As one highly knowledgeable member of the organization told me Monday, “If everything was totally equal, and this were a competition based only on performance at this camp, Tebow would probably be the fourth-string guy. Kyle [Orton] is far and away the best, and Tebow’s way behind [Brady] Quinn, too. And I’m telling you, Adam Weber is flat-out better right now.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_denver_broncos_quarterbacks_082311

[better days]

But if we are talking about this situation specifically (which didn't seem to be the case when you said that's how teams "generally" handle their QB depth charts) my point was that Orton was ahead on the depth chart because he was better, while you seemed to indicate it was about him having more experience.

I agree he has more experience, but is he the starting QB because of that, or because he's just a better QB? I think that's the main issue here. He's not beating out a QB whom many of us think is a perfectly capable, but not superstar, QB.

And if you agree that it's about being better, then Quinn would logically seem to better than Tebow. But you say he should earn his stripes by working hard. Well, a 3rd string QB gets pretty much no snaps with any offense that isn't the scout team offense. Wouldn't it stand to reason he'd learn more as a 2nd stringer who gets the occasional reps with the 1's if he were better than Quinn, just not as experienced? How is he supposed to gain the experience? Quinn didn't have any before someone just gave him a long-term shot.

In 9 games last year, Tebow averaged 8 yds per attempt, 16 yds per completion, 6 TD's by the run, 5 TD's passing QB Rating of 82.1 better numbers per game than Orton had last year.

[Blogabills]

no he wasn't

Good God I have no idea why i wrote that. At all.

Epic fail on my part.

[Blogabills]

In 9 games last year, Tebow averaged 8 yds per attempt, 16 yds per completion, 6 TD's by the run, 5 TD's passing QB Rating of 82.1 better numbers per game than Orton had last year.

Fair enough. Few (good-natured) counter-points:

The per attempt and per completion numbers are not at all statistically significant for Tebow. The sample size is far too small, especially when compared to Orton's sample size, to make a meaningful comparison between the two when it comes to average (not aggregate, though) stats. I mean, Orton had around than 6 times as many attempts than Tebow.

The one thing that is universally agreed upon is that Orton is a much more accurate passer than Tebow. I think we can mostly agree accuracy is really what makes a QB in this league (with the odd exception here and there). It (completion percentage) also plays an enormous role in any of the QB ranking systems out there, including the newest one former ESPN.

The rushing TD's (fair game due to the aggregate nature of the stat) are a good point, but let's look at those TDs: 4 came in games when he didn't play much except in obvious rushing situations. Still TDs, yes, but ones that were at or near the goal-line, in situations in which other players (debatably, but before Tebow managed to get it done) could have, and statistically usually would have, scored.

I mean, in goal line situations, how many more TDs over the course of a season can we reasonably expect Tebow to get over the number of times a team scores from the goal line normally? It can't possibly be enough to say he brings that much more *added* value in that regard.

Listen, I hope the kid does well. I have no beef with the kid. I just personally have a ton of doubts about him becoming a player of import in the league, and historically speaking with players with his skill set (though none have been the physical beast he is), it just doesn't usually work out as well as everyone would have thought in the beginning.

[acehole]

He was drafted 25th over all in 2010.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/22/broncos-trade-up-take-tebow-at-no-25/


Denver gave up a lot to get him.

With all due respect know what you are talking about before you post.

I stand by my post. Least experienced goes to bottom unless the qb is drafted high and is NFL ready. Tebow was not. Quinn is more experienced so he probably backs up Orton. This is the way it works usually.

Orton best qb on roster...who is the most experienced.

Yes a second rounder..is plenty.

We will end up drafting a player in that round or even #1 who has less NFL experience and the same "Potential". Frees up #1 pick for an offensive linemen.

My advice is if you are going to type that many words you may want to have a point.




I think we're missing each other's point here. The thread is indeed about Tebow, but you did in fact say that's "generally" how this works. I didn't say you said anything you didn't. To me it seemed as if you were justifying where Tebow resides on a depth chart by using other teams as examples, which I thought was a questionable premise to grant you (that "generally" teams start the most experienced).

If I misunderstood you, that's fine, my bad. But to say "generally" and not think others won't interpret that means "other teams" then we've got different definitons of the word "generally."

Your opinion is he's worth a look at the right price. I think almost any player is worth a look at the right price. But a 2nd rounder? He was drafted in the 3rd and hasn't shown anyone anything that suggests he should've been drafted sooner. If they give up on him and cast him off in a trade, I'd say we got suckered and suckered bad if we gave up a higher draft pick to get him than the one that was used to draft him if nothing has changed about him in that time.

And, how could it have? He's taking 3rd string reps now. How much more value could he have gained?

My point wasn't 3rd stringers "suck", as you put it. I said, how is he supposed to get better running scout team offense week after week after week? I still don't know the answer to that. I mean, if that was the way to make it, Gale Gilbert would've been starting back in the 90s for some team, not 3rd stringing the Billls.....

[Blogabills]

He was drafted 25th over all in 2010.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/22/broncos-trade-up-take-tebow-at-no-25/


Denver gave up a lot to get him.

With all due respect know what you are talking about before you post.

I stand by my post. Least experienced goes to bottom unless the qb is drafted high and is NFL ready. Tebow was not. Quinn is more experienced so he probably backs up Orton. This is the way it works usually.

Orton best qb on roster...who is the most experienced.

Yes a second rounder..is plenty.

We will end up drafting a player in that round or even #1 who has less NFL experience and the same "Potential". Frees up #1 pick for an offensive linemen.

My advice is if you are going to type that many words you may want to have a point.

Unfortunately, typing is something I do fairly quickly, so long posts do not take long to bang out.

I completely admitted missing on the tebow thing. It was a brain fart on my part. You haven't had one? I copped to it. You claimed you were only talking about the Broncos when you said "generally". We all make mistakes.

And "my point" is pretty much found everywhere in my posts when I say, "my point was this....." or "my point was that...." Your misunderstandings do not a lack of a point make. Especially when you conveniently ignore the proven aspects of sample size.

Like I keep saying, you said "generally" a QB deserves to be higher on a depth chart based on experience.

I ask one more time: How is Tebow to improve running scout teams? How many first round QBs are 3rd string by their 2nd year? Russell? If it's just about experience ,like you (not me) said, how does one gain experience on the 3rd team? Why are so many rookie QBs ahead of vets on rosters this year? Shouldn't their lack of experience matter?

You made an assertion. I good-naturedly tried to refute. You say I have no points? Those are direct questions to your assertion, which you haven't backed up with anything but repetition.

My advice to you? Don't think you're smarter than everyone else and hand out condescending pieces of advice. Try and understand that some of us are here to genuinely debate, which does not mean anger. If reading a lot of words isn't for you, then ignore. I don't know what else to say.

[Ebenezer]

According to a report WGR was talking about a little earlier Tebow is now the #4 in Denver.

[Blogabills]

According to a report WGR was talking about a little earlier Tebow is now the #4 in Denver.

It can't be because of his performance. They must've just dropped him on the depth chart because he needs to earn his stripes as a 2nd year player. Or 'cause the other player is more experienced.

Because 1st round QBs who are 4th on their depth charts always turn out to be champs, exceptions like Steve Young proving the rule.

[mrbojanglezs]

Lets not and say we didnt

[better days]

Fair enough. Few (good-natured) counter-points:

The per attempt and per completion numbers are not at all statistically significant for Tebow. The sample size is far too small, especially when compared to Orton's sample size, to make a meaningful comparison between the two when it comes to average (not aggregate, though) stats. I mean, Orton had around than 6 times as many attempts than Tebow.

The one thing that is universally agreed upon is that Orton is a much more accurate passer than Tebow. I think we can mostly agree accuracy is really what makes a QB in this league (with the odd exception here and there). It (completion percentage) also plays an enormous role in any of the QB ranking systems out there, including the newest one former ESPN.

The rushing TD's (fair game due to the aggregate nature of the stat) are a good point, but let's look at those TDs: 4 came in games when he didn't play much except in obvious rushing situations. Still TDs, yes, but ones that were at or near the goal-line, in situations in which other players (debatably, but before Tebow managed to get it done) could have, and statistically usually would have, scored.

I mean, in goal line situations, how many more TDs over the course of a season can we reasonably expect Tebow to get over the number of times a team scores from the goal line normally? It can't possibly be enough to say he brings that much more *added* value in that regard.

Listen, I hope the kid does well. I have no beef with the kid. I just personally have a ton of doubts about him becoming a player of import in the league, and historically speaking with players with his skill set (though none have been the physical beast he is), it just doesn't usually work out as well as everyone would have thought in the beginning.

I doubt anyone thought Tebow was going to come in & tear up the league. Everyone knows he has issues that need to be resolved & that would take time.

For one thing he needs to play in an offense that suits his talent & that is not the same offense that suits Ortons & Quinns talent. Orton & Quinn are very much alike, classic in the pocket QB's, so the same offense will suit both of them but not Tebow.

If Tebow has any hope of being successful, he needs to be on a team that is all in on making him a starting QB & puts him in an offense that suits his strengths like the Gator offense. Otherwise he will be like J.P. Losman was trying to play in an offense that was suited to Trent Edwards & will look about as bad.

[Ebenezer]

I doubt anyone thought Tebow was going to come in & tear up the league. Everyone knows he has issues that need to be resolved & that would take time.

Yeah, like he doesn't have the talent or mentality to play quarterback in the NFL.

[DraftBoy]

I doubt anyone thought Tebow was going to come in & tear up the league. Everyone knows he has issues that need to be resolved & that would take time.

For one thing he needs to play in an offense that suits his talent & that is not the same offense that suits Ortons & Quinns talent. Orton & Quinn are very much alike, classic in the pocket QB's, so the same offense will suit both of them but not Tebow.

If Tebow has any hope of being successful, he needs to be on a team that is all in on making him a starting QB & puts him in an offense that suits his strengths like the Gator offense. Otherwise he will be like J.P. Losman was trying to play in an offense that was suited to Trent Edwards & will look about as bad.

That's the issue though, you can't run the offense Urban Meyer ran at Florida in the pro game. The defense is too strong and too fast for it. Tebow would get killed if he tried to run the ball as much as he did at Florida.

Tebow has to conform his game to what they do in the pros, not the other way around. If he can't do that, then he'll be out of the league very soon.

Great guy, and will be a fantastic college football anaylst one day, but he's not a NFL QB.

[acehole]

you do same.





My advice to you? Don't think you're smarter than everyone else and hand out condescending pieces of advice. Try and understand that some of us are here to genuinely debate, which does not mean anger. If reading a lot of words isn't for you, then ignore. I don't know what else to say.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Eh I would take him. Make something exciting around here.

[ChristopherWalken]

He has more of a shot starting in Buffalo then anywhere else.

[better days]

That's the issue though, you can't run the offense Urban Meyer ran at Florida in the pro game. The defense is too strong and too fast for it. Tebow would get killed if he tried to run the ball as much as he did at Florida.

Tebow has to conform his game to what they do in the pros, not the other way around. If he can't do that, then he'll be out of the league very soon.

Great guy, and will be a fantastic college football anaylst one day, but he's not a NFL QB.

I don't buy that. For one thing there are already teams that use a simialar offense at least some of the time. As far as Tebow getting killed, I don't buy that either. I will bet Newton is injured before Tebow. Tebow is built like a truck & tough as hell.

[Ickybaluky]

Yeah, like he doesn't have the talent or mentality to play quarterback in the NFL.

He is a project, but he does have the talent and mentality. He has all that other stuff in oodles, it is the experience reading defenses and good mechanics he needs.

Say what you want about Tebow, but he showed late last year he can lead a team. Just go back and look at this 2nd half against Houston.

However, he needs a lot of work. His mechanics and experience are both lacking, he needs time. He may not get there, but it won't be because he lacks talent or intangibles.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He is a project, but he does have the talent and mentality. He has all that other stuff in oodles, it is the experience reading defenses and good mechanics he needs.

Say what you want about Tebow, but he showed late last year he can lead a team. Just go back and look at this 2nd half against Houston.

However, he needs a lot of work. His mechanics and experience are both lacking, he needs time. He may not get there, but it won't be because he lacks talent or intangibles.
I do agree with this.

The guy has a good enough arm, mobility and tons of the leadership you crave from a QB. He doesn't have the experience in a pro system or the proper footwork and mechanics. I think this has all been gone over time and again in the last couple years.

[better days]

I do agree with this.

The guy has a good enough arm, mobility and tons of the leadership you crave from a QB. He doesn't have the experience in a pro system or the proper footwork and mechanics. I think this has all been gone over time and again in the last couple years.

Tebow has all the intangibles & you can't ask for a better leader. Mechanics aren't everything. Jeff George had GREAT mechanics but he was not a leader & lacked the intangibles.

Bernie Kosar on the other hand had worse mechanics than Tebow, threw the ball sidearm & had a pretty good career because he had the intangibles.

[Bill Cody]

Tebow has all the intangibles & you can't ask for a better leader. Mechanics aren't everything. Jeff George had GREAT mechanics but he was not a leader & lacked the intangibles.

Bernie Kosar on the other hand had worse mechanics than Tebow, threw the ball sidearm & had a pretty good career because he had the intangibles.

Careful Hos. The only reason people care about mechanics is they want a simple repeatable motion, you need that a lot more in the NFL than college. Tebow has a very long delivery and he exposes the ball greatly for possible strip sacks. That's the issue, that and his footwork. Bernie Kosar was unconventional but he had a quick release and he was accurate, kind of like a Phillip Rivers. You don't try to change it because it works. Let's not beat this dead horse, you're a Gator fan that's fine. I'd kind of like to see Tebow get his shot also and see how he does.

[Ickybaluky]

Bernie Kosar on the other hand had worse mechanics than Tebow, threw the ball sidearm & had a pretty good career because he had the intangibles.

Bernie played a pro-style game and could read defenses. Tebow tends to take off running if his first read isn't there. You can't do that in the NFL, you need to give plays a chance to develop. It is a throwing league, he will have to break that tendency.

Tebow isn't even used to taking a snap from center, he is most comfortable in the shotgun. Footwork is everything when dropping back from center because the NFL is a timing game. Those steps are coordinated to get him in position to throw quickly, because he doesn't have time to wait until a guy gets open. The Pro game requires a QB to anticipate which guy will get open and throw the ball to that spot. In college, you wait for the guy to get open and throw the ball. It is a huge difference, because if you wait for the guy to get open in the NFL before throwing you are either taking a sack or getting picked.

Tebow has a long way to go and it is not sure thing he gets there. However, he does have a lot of raw ability and great work ethic. At worst, I think he can be a wildcat-type guy or can play another position like TE.

As far as his throwing mechanics, those probably aren't going to change much. He has a long delivery, but that is hard to change. He can still be successful with it, but his footwork is terrible. That can be changed, the only reason is because he didn't play under center at Florida much. He needs time and repitition and will put in the work. He needs time to do it, and he needs to be more patient in the pocket and stick with his reads.

[Bill Cody]

Bernie played a pro-style game and could read defenses. Tebow tends to take off running if his first read isn't there. You can't do that in the NFL, you need to give plays a chance to develop. It is a throwing league, he will have to break that tendency.

Tebow isn't even used to taking a snap from center, he is most comfortable in the shotgun. Footwork is everything when dropping back from center because the NFL is a timing game. Those steps are coordinated to get him in position to throw quickly, because he doesn't have time to wait until a guy gets open. The Pro game requires a QB to anticipate which guy will get open and throw the ball to that spot. In college, you wait for the guy to get open and throw the ball. It is a huge difference, because if you wait for the guy to get open in the NFL before throwing you are either taking a sack or getting picked.

Tebow has a long way to go and it is not sure thing he gets there. However, he does have a lot of raw ability and great work ethic. At worst, I think he can be a wildcat-type guy or can play another position like TE.

My last post on this: I agree he has a long way to go. But let's also be honest here. Learning good footwork isn't splitting the atom. Take Mike Vick. That guy had some of the worst footwork I've ever seen because he was an incredibly lazy MOFO as a younger player. He gets out of the slammer, decides to change his ways and has one of the best coaches in the league work with him in Andy Reid. All of sudden the guy is a very good pocket passer. Tebow isn't lazy so it's up to him and his coaches to work that out. On the other hand changing your delivery is much harder and will take the right coaching and thousands and thousands of reps.

But it can be done. I would not be surprised if year 4 or 5 the guy is a poor man's Steve Young, you have to be patient with him if you're Denver. I think he would probably fail here though. He does have a run first mentaility which will not work in the NFL, or at least not for long. But who could blame him from being run first behind our OL? A QB needs to be relaxed in the pocket which means he has to trust his blockers. The minute he starts to "see the rush" he's done, ask Trent Edwards. It's QB or nothing though for Tebow.

[BillsWin]

I would. But for no more than a fifth round pick. Which is highly unlikely to get that good of a deal.

I don't like Tebow. But there is a certain swagger I think he has that could be refreshing. Even as a backup.

[Blogabills]

I doubt anyone thought Tebow was going to come in & tear up the league. Everyone knows he has issues that need to be resolved & that would take time.

For one thing he needs to play in an offense that suits his talent & that is not the same offense that suits Ortons & Quinns talent. Orton & Quinn are very much alike, classic in the pocket QB's, so the same offense will suit both of them but not Tebow.

If Tebow has any hope of being successful, he needs to be on a team that is all in on making him a starting QB & puts him in an offense that suits his strengths like the Gator offense. Otherwise he will be like J.P. Losman was trying to play in an offense that was suited to Trent Edwards & will look about as bad.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly about the point that he needs to be in an offense that suits his strengths - I believe in an earlier post I mentioned he needs one tailored for him. He is not a peg that can be fit into any sized hole (that's what she said) - he's a square peg that needs a square hole, and while McDaniels might have seemed to be willing to create the square hole, it doesn't sound as if the current Denver brass is willing to do the same.

[Blogabills]

you do same.

I will wholeheartedly and genuinely apologize for any point I made in a condescending tone if you can point them out.

However, I didn't say things like, "if you paid more attention..." You did. So where my condescension is coming from in your eyes is confusing to me. I cop to my message board errors and I apologize for misunderstandings due to the context-free nature of written communications. I don't ignore valid statistical arguments in favor of generalities, however.

[DraftBoy]

I don't buy that. For one thing there are already teams that use a simialar offense at least some of the time. As far as Tebow getting killed, I don't buy that either. I will bet Newton is injured before Tebow. Tebow is built like a truck & tough as hell.

No they are not using similar offenses. No NFL team is running the spread system Florida ran (which is why spread QB's come under extra scrutiny coming out of school). The NFL system is so much more complex from Tebow's 1-2 read offense at Florida.

Who is talking about Cam? He has at least shown a dedication to staying in the pocket and not taking off, unlike Tebow. Jared Lorenzen was bigger and tougher than Tebow, he got hurt, injuries happen. Putting yourself into positions where you are taking unnecessary risk (especially as a QB) is foolish.

[better days]

No they are not using similar offenses. No NFL team is running the spread system Florida ran (which is why spread QB's come under extra scrutiny coming out of school). The NFL system is so much more complex from Tebow's 1-2 read offense at Florida.

Who is talking about Cam? He has at least shown a dedication to staying in the pocket and not taking off, unlike Tebow. Jared Lorenzen was bigger and tougher than Tebow, he got hurt, injuries happen. Putting yourself into positions where you are taking unnecessary risk (especially as a QB) is foolish.

MOST NFL teams play the spread at least part of the time just because that is what colleges have been running & the types of players they are developing. I think you will see more spread run in the NFL in the future for that reason.

I am talking about Cam, thats who is talking about him. Who's talking about Jared Lorenzen? You. Cam ran in college, did Lorenzen? And NO Lorenzen is not as tough as Tebow. Lorenzen was FAT, Tebow is MUSCLE. Hence the Lorenzen nicknames of "hefty lefty" & "Pilsbury throwboy". Cam has not played a real NFL game yet & very little in the preseason. To say he has shown a dedication to staying in the pocket is PREMATURE at best.

[DraftBoy]

MOST NFL teams play the spread at least part of the time just because that is what colleges have been running & the types of players they are developing. I think you will see more spread run in the NFL in the future for that reason.

I am talking about Cam, thats who is talking about him. Who's talking about Jared Lorenzen? You. Cam ran in college, did Lorenzen? And NO Lorenzen is not as tough as Tebow. Lorenzen was FAT, Tebow is MUSCLE. Hence the Lorenzen nicknames of "hefty lefty" & "Pilsbury throwboy". Cam has not played a real NFL game yet & very little in the preseason. To say he has shown a dedication to staying in the pocket is PREMATURE at best.

You have to understand that the college version of the spread the pro version are very different. Titles can be misleading.

Lorenzen ran a lot in college and played through multiple injuries in his college career. Did you see him play? Have you watched any of the Carolina games yet or read any of the reports? Cam and his coaches have both mentioned numerous times and it has shown thus far. Could that change? Absolutely but we know that with Tebow he just refuses to do it. See Game 1 v. Dallas.

[better days]

You have to understand that the college version of the spread the pro version are very different. Titles can be misleading.

Lorenzen ran a lot in college and played through multiple injuries in his college career. Did you see him play? Have you watched any of the Carolina games yet or read any of the reports? Cam and his coaches have both mentioned numerous times and it has shown thus far. Could that change? Absolutely but we know that with Tebow he just refuses to do it. See Game 1 v. Dallas.

Yeah I watched the Carolina games & did not see all that much of Cam. While I did not see Lorenzen play in college, I DOUBT he ran anywhere near as much as Cam or Tim. For one thing he was so FAT, he would have been out of breath gasping for air. To say Lorenzen was tougher than Tebow is LUDICROUS.

Did you watch the Denver games? did you not see the Denver OL? Any QB with legs would have ran with that protection or I should say lack of protection.

[tampabay25690]

I know tim Tebow probably better then anyone on this site....
Following him every year at Florida and knowing his style. I don't follow ESPN or any of these other stupid media sites about him being the #3 guy in Denver.....Means nothing at all.....
When he was drafted last year from Denver the Coach (McDaniel) at the time liked a QB that could get out of the pocket. Same reason why Buffalo was so interested in Tim to come to Buffalo.
This year everything has changed for Tebow and not for the good.....
Fox comes in and runs a TOTALLY different offense and that offense is not suited for Tim and his abilities. He is coming in to a team that isn't that good and already has a SAFE bet in Kyle Orton. What will probably happen with Tim is #1 the Broncos suck and he is given the reign of the team. Or #2 Orton plays well and the Broncos put there faith in him and Tebow is moved to another team for picks.....
NO Tim is not a Pro style QB and everyone knows that, he is best when he is out of the pocket and moving around. NO his arm isn't the best and his mechanics are fair at best but he still had no problem at all last year moving the ball.....

He will just need the opportunity to go to a team that makes a offense around his abilities and his abilities are FAR better then his flaws..........

[DraftBoy]

Yeah I watched the Carolina games & did not see all that much of Cam. While I did not see Lorenzen play in college, I DOUBT he ran anywhere near as much as Cam or Tim. For one thing he was so FAT, he would have been out of breath gasping for air. To say Lorenzen was tougher than Tebow is LUDICROUS.

Did you watch the Denver games? did you not see the Denver OL? Any QB with legs would have ran with that protection or I should say lack of protection.

You didnt watch Lorenzen so for you to say anything about his ability, weight, or toughness is just guessing. Lorenzen while over weight was in shape, he was also one of the toughest SOB's on the field every Saturday without fail. Ask anybody who saw him play.

Ive seen both so far, and their OL is plenty bad but that doesn't mean he should be taking off. Especially not the way he did at least once v. Dallas. Off the drop, he was scanning the field, saw the pressure off a speed rush and instead of stepping up and looking for a completion he just took off. Those are big things that he is still not getting, and huge negatives. This isn't Florida and this isn't the SEC, that stuff won't work anymore.

Hopefully he realizes that sooner rather than later.

[tampabay25690]

You didnt watch Lorenzen so for you to say anything about his ability, weight, or toughness is just guessing. Lorenzen while over weight was in shape, he was also one of the toughest SOB's on the field every Saturday without fail. Ask anybody who saw him play.

Ive seen both so far, and their OL is plenty bad but that doesn't mean he should be taking off. Especially not the way he did at least once v. Dallas. Off the drop, he was scanning the field, saw the pressure off a speed rush and instead of stepping up and looking for a completion he just took off. Those are big things that he is still not getting, and huge negatives. This isn't Florida and this isn't the SEC, that stuff won't work anymore.

Hopefully he realizes that sooner rather than later.

Lorenzen was a tuff nut.
I remember watching him at Kentucky he was bigger then Tim but a bit slower....
Had a huge arm.....

[DraftBoy]

Lorenzen was a tuff nut.
I remember watching him at Kentucky he was bigger then Tim but a bit slower....
Had a huge arm.....

He wasnt the same athletically, but my god he could sling the rock and he was a pretty good runner as well.

[better days]

You didnt watch Lorenzen so for you to say anything about his ability, weight, or toughness is just guessing. Lorenzen while over weight was in shape, he was also one of the toughest SOB's on the field every Saturday without fail. Ask anybody who saw him play.

Ive seen both so far, and their OL is plenty bad but that doesn't mean he should be taking off. Especially not the way he did at least once v. Dallas. Off the drop, he was scanning the field, saw the pressure off a speed rush and instead of stepping up and looking for a completion he just took off. Those are big things that he is still not getting, and huge negatives. This isn't Florida and this isn't the SEC, that stuff won't work anymore.

Hopefully he realizes that sooner rather than later.

If Lorenzen & Tebow shared a field EVER in their career, Tebow would by far be the TOUGHER player on the field. Ask anybody that saw Tebow play. I saw Cam get hurt against a very small Oregon Defense while Tebow played against MUCH BIGGER TOUGHER Defenses in the SEC than Oregon or any in the conference Lorenzen was in.

I will agree Tebow has to lose the run first mentality.

[DraftBoy]

If Lorenzen & Tebow shared a field EVER in their career, Tebow would by far be the TOUGHER player on the field. Ask anybody that saw Tebow play. I saw Cam get hurt against a very small Oregon Defense while Tebow played against MUCH BIGGER TOUGHER Defenses in the SEC than Oregon or any in the conference Lorenzen was in.

I will agree Tebow has to lose the run first mentality.

This is turning into a my dad is tougher than your dad debate.

[better days]

I know tim Tebow probably better then anyone on this site....
Following him every year at Florida and knowing his style. I don't follow ESPN or any of these other stupid media sites about him being the #3 guy in Denver.....Means nothing at all.....
When he was drafted last year from Denver the Coach (McDaniel) at the time liked a QB that could get out of the pocket. Same reason why Buffalo was so interested in Tim to come to Buffalo.
This year everything has changed for Tebow and not for the good.....
Fox comes in and runs a TOTALLY different offense and that offense is not suited for Tim and his abilities. He is coming in to a team that isn't that good and already has a SAFE bet in Kyle Orton. What will probably happen with Tim is #1 the Broncos suck and he is given the reign of the team. Or #2 Orton plays well and the Broncos put there faith in him and Tebow is moved to another team for picks.....
NO Tim is not a Pro style QB and everyone knows that, he is best when he is out of the pocket and moving around. NO his arm isn't the best and his mechanics are fair at best but he still had no problem at all last year moving the ball.....

He will just need the opportunity to go to a team that makes a offense around his abilities and his abilities are FAR better then his flaws..........

I am a Gator fan, so I can probably match you as far as knowing Tebow & watching him play.

[EDS]

If Lorenzen & Tebow shared a field EVER in their career, Tebow would by far be the TOUGHER player on the field. Ask anybody that saw Tebow play. I saw Cam get hurt against a very small Oregon Defense while Tebow played against MUCH BIGGER TOUGHER Defenses in the SEC than Oregon or any in the conference Lorenzen was in.

I will agree Tebow has to lose the run first mentality.

Didn't Lorenzen play in the SEC too?

[tampabay25690]

I am a Gator fan, so I can probably match you as far as knowing Tebow & watching him play.

I know u are...
Just some just watch ESPN and have no clue thats all I was saying........

GO GATORS, the future is bright in gainesville.......

[tampabay25690]

Didn't Lorenzen play in the SEC too?

yes Kentucky

[better days]

yes Kentucky

Yeah, my bad. The radiation I received for throat Cancer has left my Memory a mess, things come & go.

[better days]

You didnt watch Lorenzen so for you to say anything about his ability, weight, or toughness is just guessing. Lorenzen while over weight was in shape, he was also one of the toughest SOB's on the field every Saturday without fail. Ask anybody who saw him play.

Ive seen both so far, and their OL is plenty bad but that doesn't mean he should be taking off. Especially not the way he did at least once v. Dallas. Off the drop, he was scanning the field, saw the pressure off a speed rush and instead of stepping up and looking for a completion he just took off. Those are big things that he is still not getting, and huge negatives. This isn't Florida and this isn't the SEC, that stuff won't work anymore.

Hopefully he realizes that sooner rather than later.

I must have seen Jared in college, but I have to admit I can't recall at this time. I do however recall seeing him play with the Giants. I remember him to be BIG & FAT without all that much ability to play at the NFL level.

[better days]

Lorenzen was a tuff nut.
I remember watching him at Kentucky he was bigger then Tim but a bit slower....
Had a huge arm.....

My point was draftboy claimed Lorenzen was tougher than Tebow. Lorenzen may not have been a wimp, but Tebow is the toughest QB I have ever seen play & that includes Jim Kelly who has to at least be in the top 5 if not #2 of tough QB's.

[tampabay25690]

Yeah, my bad. The radiation I received for throat Cancer has left my Memory a mess, things come & go.

So sorry to hear...... I hope u are doing ok????

[better days]

This is turning into a my dad is tougher than your dad debate.

OK AGREED, but if my dad were Tebow, he would be tougher than your dad. LOL

[tampabay25690]

I must have seen Jared in college, but I have to admit I can't recall at this time. I do however recall seeing him play with the Giants. I remember him to be BIG & FAT without all that much ability to play at the NFL level.

He was alwyas a very big boy but in the NFL he became a bit bigger...

[better days]

So sorry to hear...... I hope u are doing ok????

Yeah I am alive, which there was not much hope for when I was diagnosed. I just have to live with the effects of the cancer & the treatment of it, but I am living.

[tampabay25690]

Yeah I am alive, which there was not much hope for when I was diagnosed. I just have to live with the effects of the cancer & the treatment of it, but I am living.

Good luck to you..

[Bill Cody]

Yeah, my bad. The radiation I received for throat Cancer has left my Memory a mess, things come & go.

Not all bad if you're a Bills fan

[acehole]

OMG drop it already. Your fine. If you see my name I am not known for being a boy-scout. I am Italian and I always have to have the last word.

I just doint like arguing for the sake of arguing.





I will wholeheartedly and genuinely apologize for any point I made in a condescending tone if you can point them out.

However, I didn't say things like, "if you paid more attention..." You did. So where my condescension is coming from in your eyes is confusing to me. I cop to my message board errors and I apologize for misunderstandings due to the context-free nature of written communications. I don't ignore valid statistical arguments in favor of generalities, however.

[Ickybaluky]

My last post on this: I agree he has a long way to go. But let's also be honest here. Learning good footwork isn't splitting the atom. Take Mike Vick. That guy had some of the worst footwork I've ever seen because he was an incredibly lazy MOFO as a younger player.

I don't think we disagree, although I think it is harder than you make it out to be. I think Tebow can do it because he works hard, but it will take time. Even then, there is no sure bet he will get it, and he needs to come a long way in terms of pre-snap reads and commanding a NFL passing game.

Mike Vick is a poor comparison. Vick gets away with a lot because he is such a rare athlete. Tebow is athletic, but Vick is a freak of nature with his speed. Vick also is a different kind of QB, as he is more of a long-ball, big play guy. He has a cannon for an arm. Tebow has to be a more efficient thrower, he doesn't have a big arm. Ben Roethlisberger is another one who has an arm that covers a lot of his mechanical flaws.

[tampabay25690]

I don't think we disagree, although I think it is harder than you make it out to be. I think Tebow can do it because he works hard, but it will take time. Even then, there is no sure bet he will get it, and he needs to come a long way in terms of pre-snap reads and commanding a NFL passing game.

Mike Vick is a poor comparison. Vick gets away with a lot because he is such a rare athlete. Tebow is athletic, but Vick is a freak of nature with his speed. Vick also is a different kind of QB, as he is more of a long-ball, big play guy. He has a cannon for an arm. Tebow has to be a more efficient thrower, he doesn't have a big arm. Ben Roethlisberger is another one who has an arm that covers a lot of his mechanical flaws.

Micheal Vick might be the best COLLEGE player I ever seen.
If he played on a better team then V Tech back then........
He would have been unreal......

He is a freak of an athlete...

[Jaybird]

Please don't compare Vick to Tebow... Tebow is not an Nfl QB and never will be. His game worked in college along with all the talent he played with.

[tampabay25690]

Please don't compare Vick to Tebow... Tebow is not an Nfl QB and never will be. His game worked in college along with all the talent he played with.

HA HA, thank you NFL scout

[mysticsoto]

Per rotoworld:




CBS' Boomer Esiason has joined ESPN's Merril Hoge in already concluding that 24-year-old Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow has no future in the NFL.

We've become Tebow supporters in no small part because the media attacks on him are so constant and bordering on cruel. "He can't play. He can't throw," said Esiason. "... Just because he's God-fearing, and a great person off the field, and was a winner with the team that had the best athletes in college football, doesn't mean his game is going to translate to the NFL. What Josh McDaniels saw in him God only knows. Maybe God does know — because the rest of us don't."

[Philagape]

ox comes in and runs a TOTALLY different offense and that offense is not suited for Tim and his abilities. He is coming in to a team that isn't that good and already has a SAFE bet in Kyle Orton. What will probably happen with Tim is #1 the Broncos suck and he is given the reign of the team. Or #2 Orton plays well and the Broncos put there faith in him and Tebow is moved to another team for picks.....
NO Tim is not a Pro style QB and everyone knows that, he is best when he is out of the pocket and moving around. NO his arm isn't the best and his mechanics are fair at best but he still had no problem at all last year moving the ball.....

He will just need the opportunity to go to a team that makes a offense around his abilities and his abilities are FAR better then his flaws..........

Any NFL QB who wants to start needs to be good in the pocket. It's an essential job requirement, as is accuracy.
The only QB who has had any kind of success without that, on athleticism alone, is Vick, and last year's career year was because he became a good passer, too. Exceptions don't prove anything.
No QB in the world is worth building a college offense around in the NFL. If he needs that to succeed, then he's not worth it.

[tampabay25690]

Any NFL QB who wants to start needs to be good in the pocket. It's an essential job requirement, as is accuracy.
The only QB who has had any kind of success without that, on athleticism alone, is Vick, and last year's career year was because he became a good passer, too. Exceptions don't prove anything.
No QB in the world is worth building a college offense around in the NFL. If he needs that to succeed, then he's not worth it.

Thanks for your insight as well..

[Philagape]

“He can’t play. He can’t throw.” -- Boomer Esiason

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/24/boomer-esiason-tim-tebow-cant-play-cant-throw/

[acehole]

Except of course Bret Farve. ...cause he was inaccurate early in his career and could not throw from the pocket as well.....





Any NFL QB who wants to start needs to be good in the pocket. It's an essential job requirement, as is accuracy.
The only QB who has had any kind of success without that, on athleticism alone, is Vick, and last year's career year was because he became a good passer, too. Exceptions don't prove anything.
No QB in the world is worth building a college offense around in the NFL. If he needs that to succeed, then he's not worth it.

[tampabay25690]

“He can’t play. He can’t throw.” -- Boomer Esiason

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/24/boomer-esiason-tim-tebow-cant-play-cant-throw/

coming from Boomer Esiason.........
Wow I totally listen to everything he says...........

[Philagape]

coming from Boomer Esiason.........
Wow I totally listen to everything he says...........

I'm sure it's mutual.

[Ground Chuck]

Tebow will become a Brad Smith novelty wildcat QB. That's it.

[tampabay25690]

I'm sure it's mutual.
u got it

[better days]

Please don't compare Vick to Tebow... Tebow is not an Nfl QB and never will be. His game worked in college along with all the talent he played with.

Yeah because Vick has always been a great NFL QB. He was not a run first inaccurate QB for YEARS in Atlanta.

[Turf]

Thought I'd bump this up. Not that he would have succeeded here anyways with our bumbling owner. But I told ya so.

[X-Era]

Thought I'd bump this up. Not that he would have succeeded here anyways with our bumbling owner. But I told ya so.Love the I told ya so crowd. :lol:

Anyways, it appears Nix and the Bills brass were right twice now. Some of us here doubted both Newton and Tebow and the Bills were rumored to want both. I just find it interesting.

[Philagape]

Know who was drafted three spots before Tebow?

Demaryius Thomas.

I wish the Bills had HIM. He's a WAY better receiver than Tebow is a QB.

HE's the stud on the Broncos offense. HE's the one who made that overtime play a touchdown. HE's the one who should be talked about.

[sqad5]

tebow still sucks

[PromoTheRobot]

Tebow skill is the Jedi mind trick that makes smart defensive coordinators like Dick LeBeau look like George Edwards on a bad day.

PTR

[imbondz]

I love it, hope it continues. It doesn't make any sense they beat the Steelers, doesn't make any sense that Tebow threw for more yards against the #1 defense than any QB this year. that is crazy.

[Bert102176]

I loved the game watching the steelers lose was amazing

[better days]

Well, I have been ridiculed on this board for being a fan & supporter of Tebow so I feel justified in saying I TOLD YOU SO.

I said before he was drafted he would be a GOOD NFL QB, & I said he will be talked about as one of the best QBs in the NFL within the next 4 years. I will reiterate that today.

All of the Tebow haters that said the Steelers would make Tebow look like a fool are the ones that look like FOOLS today. Tebow proved you all WRONG AGAIN.

[better days]

Know who was drafted three spots before Tebow?

Demaryius Thomas.

I wish the Bills had HIM. He's a WAY better receiver than Tebow is a QB.

HE's the stud on the Broncos offense. HE's the one who made that overtime play a touchdown. HE's the one who should be talked about.

Thomas will be a very good receiver IF he can stay healthy, but Tebow will also be a very good QB & unlike MANY of you that said Tebow would get injured & never last in the NFL, I have no doubt Tebow will stay healthy.

[Ickybaluky]

I said before he was drafted he would be a GOOD NFL QB, & I said he will be talked about as one of the best QBs in the NFL within the next 4 years. I will reiterate that today.

I don't think he has arrived yet, anymore than T.J. Yates has. It will be interesting to see how Tebow develops, but he has a long way to go as a passer. I wouldn't bet against the kid, but it is early to say he has arrived.

[OpIv37]

Well, I have been ridiculed on this board for being a fan & supporter of Tebow so I feel justified in saying I TOLD YOU SO.

I said before he was drafted he would be a GOOD NFL QB, & I said he will be talked about as one of the best QBs in the NFL within the next 4 years. I will reiterate that today.

All of the Tebow haters that said the Steelers would make Tebow look like a fool are the ones that look like FOOLS today. Tebow proved you all WRONG AGAIN.

He's NOT a good NFL QB.

He had one good game against the Steelers. All his other games have been very pedestrian. George Edwards- who is now in the unemployment line- made him look foolish.

Tebow has the benefit of having a very good D to keep the games close. If he played on the Bills, it would be an epic disaster.

Tebow is a flash in the pan. Teams are learning how to shut him down- don't get all smug and "I told you so" because the Steelers bit on a run fake.

[better days]

I don't think he has arrived yet, anymore than T.J. Yates has. It will be interesting to see how Tebow develops, but he has a long way to go as a passer. I wouldn't bet against the kid, but it is early to say he has arrived.

I am not saying Tebow has arrived.......yet. But there is no doubt in my mind Tebow will arrive & be talked about as one of the best QB's in the NFL within the next 4 years. About the same time Brady will be talked about as being finished.

In the meantime, while he is improving, Tebow has his team in the playoffs as does Yates. Tebow unlike Yates is the ONLY QB responsible for getting his team in the playoffs.

Both Yates & Tebow will face a tough team in a tough environment next week so I would not be surprised to see both lose, but both the Texans & Broncos have a good YOUNG QB on their team that will only get better.

I think the Texans will have a dilemma at QB next year. Do they trade the oft injured Schaub while they can get something for him or hang on to him another year or two?

[Philagape]

Tebow is a flash in the pan. Teams are learning how to shut him down- don't get all smug and "I told you so" because the Steelers bit on a run fake.

This brings up another point: Whoever is designing the Broncos' offense has done a great job of taking advantage of extremely limited QB skills. PFT did an excellent job of breaking down the winning TD, how they got Thomas on single coverage with no one behind him. When you have that, there are 50 QBs who can make a no-brainer throw like that. As soon as defenses realize that Thomas is the real threat on Denver's offense, we'll see what happens.

What you had yesterday was a unit that relied on big plays, and got enough of them in one game to beat a superior opponent that had its own problems, but sucked the rest of the time. Hmmmmmm that sounds familiar .......

[EricStratton]

In the meantime, while he is improving, Tebow has his team in the playoffs as does Yates. Tebow unlike Yates is the ONLY QB responsible for getting his team in the playoffs.





Do you give any credit to a good defense and a poor division won with an 8-8 record by a team that lost it's last three or is it all on Tim?

[trapezeus]

tebow had 10 completions. he continued to be a complete question mark with his accuracy. he is an extreme losman. he can throw the long ball ok. Losman definitely had more touch. Tebow can not throw a simple out pattern. the receivers seem stunned when the ball is on the money.

If the Safeties would have just stuck with their, "you won't beat us deep" plan and the steelers didn't have 2 injuries to their front four in the first quarter, they would have shut down the run without DB's and safeties crawlling up.

Tebow will have an outrageously bad second season next year. the only teams who will get toasted by him are the teams that don't have the personnel to shut him down.

[better days]

Do you give any credit to a good defense and a poor division won with an 8-8 record by a team that lost it's last three or is it all on Tim?

Yes, I already said before it is a TEAM game. Not even Brady or Manning can win without a team surrounding them. The Broncos also benifited in playing in one of the worst conferences in the NFL.

Tebow is only in his 2nd year, & will just get better as he gets more experience.

[better days]

tebow had 10 completions. he continued to be a complete question mark with his accuracy. he is an extreme losman. he can throw the long ball ok. Losman definitely had more touch. Tebow can not throw a simple out pattern. the receivers seem stunned when the ball is on the money.

If the Safeties would have just stuck with their, "you won't beat us deep" plan and the steelers didn't have 2 injuries to their front four in the first quarter, they would have shut down the run without DB's and safeties crawlling up.

Tebow will have an outrageously bad second season next year. the only teams who will get toasted by him are the teams that don't have the personnel to shut him down.

BS. Losman could NEVER force a defense to game plan for him like Tebow does. Tebow has to be accounted for on EVERY play, especially in the red zone. That is what makes him unique as an NFL QB.

I can't wait for Tebow to prove you & the rest of the HATERS wrong next year.

[trapezeus]

haters or just skeptical that a marginally talented guy who has completed more than 50% of his throws in 2 games is going to be a star. It's foolish.

he's entertaining. but that's about it. if he was a guy who said nothing about his faith, people would be riding him for this. fitz performs better overall yet we are done with him. tebow could not get that team to put the lights out on the steelers. they left them around and with the exception of the steelers safeties pinching a bunch of times, tebow was wildly inaccurate at home. the steelers Qb was immobile. The front 4 which stuffed the run early was halved by the second drive due to injuries.

Tebow is a chump and his fans are either doing it ironically because he looks like one of the worst qb's ever to make it this far or they are so blind by religious duty that it's irritating.

He is on a magical run, but like all players who experience a high for no reason at all, they will be have a very low rut for an extended period of time.

[Ickybaluky]

because the Steelers bit on a run fake.

Why did they bite on the run fake though?

Denver wasn't running the ball with Orton the same way they do with Tebow in there. Tebow has a huge effect on the run game.

You can't take credit away from the kid when he plays well. I realize he struggles throwing from the pocket, and he will have to improve in that area.

However, you have to recognize what he does well. He is an excellent runner. His ability to run that spread option has opened up the running game. He has shown a remarkable ability to extend plays and make huge throws down-field after buying himself time (he out-Roethlisberger-ed Ben yesterday). He actually does a pretty good job throwing when they roll him out and he is out of the pocket, either faking the run and dumping it over coverage when it comes up or being smart enough to throw it away.

Yes, he has to learn to be a more consistent pocket thrower. You can't ignore the other things he does well, though.

I haven't even mentioned his intangibles. His teammates obviously feed off his energy, and he shows poise and doesn't let bad plays effect him the rest of the game. In a league where QB are crying for flags every time they get hit, he brushes it off and shows rare toughness for the position. It is a team game, but he was a huge part of Denver's turnaround this year.

Also, before people bring up Denver record, remember he was dealt a 1-4 start by Orton before being handed the reigns. It wasn't like they were a great team when he started.

I don't know if Tebow can learn to be a more consistent passer, but I can see some things that make him a pretty interesting player. Given what he has accomplished so far, I know I would not bet against him.

[better days]

haters or just skeptical that a marginally talented guy who has completed more than 50% of his throws in 2 games is going to be a star. It's foolish.

he's entertaining. but that's about it. if he was a guy who said nothing about his faith, people would be riding him for this. fitz performs better overall yet we are done with him. tebow could not get that team to put the lights out on the steelers. they left them around and with the exception of the steelers safeties pinching a bunch of times, tebow was wildly inaccurate at home. the steelers Qb was immobile. The front 4 which stuffed the run early was halved by the second drive due to injuries.

Tebow is a chump and his fans are either doing it ironically because he looks like one of the worst qb's ever to make it this far or they are so blind by religious duty that it's irritating.

He is on a magical run, but like all players who experience a high for no reason at all, they will be have a very low rut for an extended period of time.

Tebow is more than entertaining, he WINS games. Yes the Steelers had injuries, but so did the Broncos. They lost the best WR they had this year in the 1st half & Miller has been playing injured.