Does anyone still doubt Ralph's cheapness? Is anyone still excited about this team?

[OpIv37]

You know, this is about the 4th year in a row when I said that I've never been less excited for football season before. My enthusiasm goes down every year.

Last year, we all pretty much knew that it was a rebuilding year and it would suck, so I wasn't excited at all. But, there was also a common belief that it was the first step in a process, so while it would be a rough season, it would be for the best in the long run.

Now, it's just so painfully obvious that Ralph is only concerned with money and isn't even trying to win. We've had a debate before about whether or not Ralph is cheap, but now he's taking advantage of the year with no cap floor by sitting on about $20 million under the cap. The debate is over: Ralph is cheap and is not committed to winning.

It's no longer an issue of how much enthusiasm I can muster for the season. It's about how much longer I can continue to care. How much longer can I continue to spend time and money on this team?

Don't get me wrong. I love the Bills. I want them to do well more than anything. But if Ralph isn't even going to try, and he has no problem with putting the team in a position to fail so he can make a few extra bucks, why should I continue to care? Why should any of us?

Has anyone else here ever dealt with a close friend or relative with a substance abuse problem? It gets to a point where there is nothing more you can do for them until they bottom out and come to terms with the fact that they need help. We are dangerously close to that point. No one can force Ralph to change his ways, and no one can force Ralph to sell.

As long as Ralph owns this team, we are ****ed. There is nothing we can do except sit back and watch the train wreck.

[Pinkerton Security]

I still care. Im more detached than I was, but I'm still going to get super pumped for every sunday until we're 0-9.

[psubills62]

It's football. Honestly, I don't spend much money on the team anyway so that may contribute to my relative level of optimism, but I still love watching the young guys and how they perform. I'm excited to see what Batten, Dareus, Moats, Carrington, Troup, A. Williams, etc. can do. I'm excited to see how any of these guys manage to develop. I'm excited to talk about the draft every year and who we might get to pick.

I can understand people's pessimism (unless they're simply illogical about it, in which cases I feel the need to say something). And as I've said before, I don't agree with every move they make (or lack of moves). There are times I question what they're doing. In the end, I still love football, love talking about it, and love the Bills.

Ralph may be cheap, but I'm obviously not as bothered by that as other people. I think our failings have come in more areas than simply spending money. Tampa is cheap, too, but still managed to have a 10-win season and build a strong core of talent. I'm also not terribly bothered by it since Ralph (or whoever is the owner by then) will need to spend to the cap floor in two years. They'll find ways to spend money, and most signs seem to point to them spending it relatively judiciously rather than blowing money simply to get to the floor.

[trapezeus]

it's not cheap to be $20MM under the cap. it's cheap to not even think about replacing losing parts on the front office staff. Why are the guys responsible for running out two very good football staffs even associated to this team?

Why is it impossible to bring in bill cowher when we begged him? and any other coach? Why is it that we can't execute at that level?

Sure, run a small and tight salary cap, but pay for a front office that gets it right and finds great talent at cheap prices. other small market teams do it. pitts, greenbay.

I remember as few as 2 years ago, every year since i can remember, i'd have a dream before the bills season in august or september about the superbowl. and it'd be stressful. either getting there was amazing or the fact they could lose was distressing. the last two years, i don't have that dream anymore. this year, i had a sabres dream.

The bills are making themselves irrelevant. and the brass can keep saying it's us, but the NFL and other NFL fans know its the ownership.

I can't wait until the bills are 0-8 and the home games turn into a war field with chants of "**** you ralph" and people just acting ape**** crazy. and what other recourse do fans have that have put up with this **** play and an ownership that doesn't care. and they want the legacy of being a great owner. It's a god damned joke.

[better days]

It's football. Honestly, I don't spend much money on the team anyway so that may contribute to my relative level of optimism, but I still love watching the young guys and how they perform. I'm excited to see what Batten, Dareus, Moats, Carrington, Troup, A. Williams, etc. can do. I'm excited to see how any of these guys manage to develop. I'm excited to talk about the draft every year and who we might get to pick.

I can understand people's pessimism (unless they're simply illogical about it, in which cases I feel the need to say something). And as I've said before, I don't agree with every move they make (or lack of moves). There are times I question what they're doing. In the end, I still love football, love talking about it, and love the Bills.

Ralph may be cheap, but I'm obviously not as bothered by that as other people. I think our failings have come in more areas than simply spending money. Tampa is cheap, too, but still managed to have a 10-win season and build a strong core of talent. I'm also not terribly bothered by it since Ralph (or whoever is the owner by then) will need to spend to the cap floor in two years. They'll find ways to spend money, and most signs seem to point to them spending it relatively judiciously rather than blowing money simply to get to the floor.

Yeah I am more bothered by the fact that the Bills only got 4th rnd picks for Lynch & Evans than the fact they traded them.

I think that both of those trades made the Bills worse not better, but if they would have received VALUE in return that could improve the team in the future I would have been ok with it.

[justasportsfan]

Ralph has proven to spend in the past. He didn't blink when Donahoe grabbed all those FA's. He also dished out $ when Levy grabbed Walker and Dockery. It could be that he got tired of paying $ and still not get any results.

I can't wait til' we get a new owner. No matter who Ralph picks as a GM, he's still the common denominator of all our failures.

[Ebenezer]

You know, this is about the 4th year in a row when I said that I've never been less excited for football season before. My enthusiasm goes down every year.

When the schedule came out this year I looked at the dates to make sure they didn't conflict with any races I wanted to run...that's how bad it has gotten for me.

[BillsWin]

For once, I am starting the season with the same opinion of OP. No more blind optimism. My only hope now is that we are the worst team in the league and draft Luck, then proceed to draft the best tackle available at the top of round 2.

Knowing the Bills and Ralph, they'll probably **** that up and pass over franchise material at both of those spots.

This is ridiculous.

[hemi13]

WOW, Had to do some thinking on this one. I still get excited, but not like I used to. I was thinking it was age, lol.

I live in the desert in Arizona and I have to go too a local bar to watch the games. I am getting a little sick of the comments like "The Bills suck, but at least your loyal" or "Hey, you know what BILLS stand for". We all have heard that one before. Maybe it's not the same, because I was either a season ticket holder back home or I lived in a city that had GREAT Bills Backer groups, but here, it's just me sitting alone and yelling at the TV dressed up like a clown in my Bills stuff. Thank God I quit drinking, lol.

Yes, I wish Ralph would just sell the team or step aside. (that means die, sorry Ralph). So yes I still can see a small flame burning, but it's nowhere near the bonfire that used to burn. Yes every draft, preseason, and for the first 8 games, I'm pumped. Then reality kicks in and I sometimes leave the games before the end. I never left a game back in the day. Win or lose, I stuck it out.

My son used to say that the Bills would win the Superbowl the day I was on my death bed and I'd die just before seeing them win. That would be my luck. So yes I love my Bills, and always will, but it's just not the same as it used to be. This will be my team until God takes me home.

GO BILLS !

[trapezeus]

the bills will draft luck, he'll refuse to play and ask to be traded. we'll trade him for two picks and run fitz out of town. we'llstart with thigpen and hear how he really is quite good and raw.

and that the real goal is to bottom out the following year.

The defense that looked servicable won't get better and the offense will continue to bore the **** out of everyone. rinse and repeat until ralph's funeral.

[don137]

I had the Sunday NFL ticket when I moved so I could watch the Bills. I stopped that a few years ago. I use to travel to see the Bills once a year. This is the first year I decided to save my money and not go see them. While I love the Bills it's hard to justify spending so much when ownership does not care about winning. I guess not making the playoffs in 11 years, seeing bad drafts year after year, bad front office transactions and ownerships refusal to spend to fill glaring weaknesses will take the excitement out of a person

[BillsWin]

WOW, Had to do some thinking on this one. I still get excited, but not like I used to. I was thinking it was age, lol.

I live in the desert in Arizona and I have to go too a local bar to watch the games. I am getting a little sick of the comments like "The Bills suck, but at least your loyal" or "Hey, you know what BILLS stand for". We all have heard that one before. Maybe it's not the same, because I was either a season ticket holder back home or I lived in a city that had GREAT Bills Backer groups, but here, it's just me sitting alone and yelling at the TV dressed up like a clown in my Bills stuff. Thank God I quit drinking, lol.

Yes, I wish Ralph would just sell the team or step aside. (that means die, sorry Ralph). So yes I still can see a small flame burning, but it's nowhere near the bonfire that used to burn. Yes every draft, preseason, and for the first 8 games, I'm pumped. Then reality kicks in and I sometimes leave the games before the end. I never left a game back in the day. Win or lose, I stuck it out.

My son used to say that the Bills would win the Superbowl the day I was on my death bed and I'd die just before seeing them win. That would be my luck. So yes I love my Bills, and always will, but it's just not the same as it used to be. This will be my team until God takes me home.

GO BILLS !

I bought direct tv sunday ticket so that I could get drunk at home and wallow in self-pity on Sundays instead of going out in public, spending money and getting laughed at by the fans of other teams. Sick of the dumb comments. Other fans may be borderline mentally handicapped when it comes to insults, but when you start to realize part of what they say is true.... your fight begins to disappear and going out and supporting the team in public gets tough.

I'll always love the Bills. A move across country, a job in sports, a serious relationship with a Pats fan (I know, I know.), family problems (Buffalo related), these things haven't stopped me from supporting them. But I don't doubt Ralph's cheapness anymore and my excitement levels are at an all-time low.

Go Bills...

[ejsmith]

I agree 100%. My enthusiasm goes down more and more every year. Although I disagree on the salary cap point. I think its a smart move to try and build a solid team while staying under the cap in order to give you flexibility to do what the Eagles are doing this year when you think you have a real chance to win it all. This is not to say that Ralph isn't cheap, because I do think he is cheap and trying to set this team up to be sold to the highest bidder.

[elltrain22]

One thing that is evident to me thus far, is that this organization is putting all their money in the guys they draft. By doing this though, they, IMHO, are not giving this team the best chance to win. Whenever ya draft someone, develop them, and pay them, there's a chance they still won't be any good, at least w/ signing FA's, you already know, pretty much, what you're getting.

Unless this team is trying to be bad to draft Luck, but I highly doubt that is the case. In the end, myself, and probably an overwhelming majority of Bills fans are left w/ feeling 100% confident that our organization is simply going threw the motions, and isn't really overly concearned about winning like most teams are.

[mayotm]

The past few weeks have been especially tough. The Evans trade, the o-line mess, the piss poor performance against Denver and finally the Fred Jackson situation. I've had to pull away for a few days. I'm not checking things online every second of the day. That all stated, I'm still excited about the season. I simply can't help myself. I'll alwasy have a glimmer of hope that the Bills can be the team that has the unexpected great season. Even when all logical signs point to that not happening.

[Thurmal]

If we get Luck, he will probably end up sucking.

We will put him behind an awful offensive line, like every other quarterback this century, and he will become completely shell-shocked.

You know how people feel sorry for guys drafted by teams like the Clippers and Bengals, because the players will undoubtedly have bad careers, despite their talent level? That's where the Bills are right now.

[better days]

I bought direct tv sunday ticket so that I could get drunk at home and wallow in self-pity on Sundays instead of going out in public, spending money and getting laughed at by the fans of other teams. Sick of the dumb comments. Other fans may be borderline mentally handicapped when it comes to insults, but when you start to realize part of what they say is true.... your fight begins to disappear and going out and supporting the team in public gets tough.

I'll always love the Bills. A move across country, a job in sports, a serious relationship with a Pats fan (I know, I know.), family problems (Buffalo related), these things haven't stopped me from supporting them. But I don't doubt Ralph's cheapness anymore and my excitement levels are at an all-time low.

Go Bills...

Well, I get what you are saying that is the reason to go to a Bills bar rather than a generic sports bar to watch a game if you can't watch at home or just want to get out to watch a game.

[SquishDaFish]

I'm close to done with this team. This season better show something or I'm done

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Im always excited for Bills football but I also excepted there situation years back. Yes, I'm a homer but I realized that Ralph was cheap and they will never be truly competetive until he's gone. This doesn't bother me however, the Bills are like living in the northeast in terms of weather. I don't like the cold and don't like snow but I suck it up. I make the best out of it, I don't complain like a lot of people cause If I hated it that much I'd just move to warmer weather. And if I really can't except what Ralph does then I will choose to not follow the team

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Apparently a few too many:


The Bills loss to Chicago had a 14.9 rating on Channel 7, meaning 14.9 percent of area households watched Ryan Fitzpatrick and company lose in Chicago. That was higher than the 14.0 the first preseason game had a year ago.
The Bills loss in Denver slipped almost 20 percent to a 12.3 rating, well below the 16.5 for the corresponding game 2 of the 2010 preseason. But there are some asterisks. The 2010 game was at home and the Denver game had a late start – 8:30 p.m. – because of its time zone.
The rating for the Denver game hit a high of 17 before halftime but going into single-digits in the second half when the Broncos dominated. I wouldn’t leave at halftime.

Alan Pergament (http://stilltalkintv.com/2011/08/bills-fans-complain-but-watch/)

And you still see, even here, people willing to shell out cash to get tickets to the games.

You want to send the message? Stop watching, and stop buying tickets.

[Historian]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Bills. I want them to do well more than anything. But if Ralph isn't even going to try, and he has no problem with putting the team in a position to fail so he can make a few extra bucks, why should I continue to care? Why should any of us?

Care? Yes.

Spend your hard earned dough on them? No.


Has anyone else here ever dealt with a close friend or relative with a substance abuse problem? It gets to a point where there is nothing more you can do for them until they bottom out and come to terms with the fact that they need help. We are dangerously close to that point. No one can force Ralph to change his ways, and no one can force Ralph to sell.


It does kind of resemble an abused spousal relationship, doesn't it?

[ddaryl]

how many of you couldn't wait to import one of those Cheap Chinese made jerseys... LMAO..

[DMBcrew36]

This is the least excited I've been for Bills football.

[THATHURMANATOR]

how many of you couldn't wait to import one of those Cheap Chinese made jerseys... LMAO..
What does this have to do with anything?

By the way they are no different than the 300 dollar Chinese made Jerseys. Who cares?

[WeAreArthurMoates]

This is the least excited I've been for Bills football.

You were actually more excited about the Bills in year for of Jauron. Wow, I give you props.

[ServoBillieves]

I've said it in some other threads as some people have seen... I'm 23 years old, I have loved this team my entire life (I consider the baby pictures of me in Bills stuff as being a fan) as long as I can actually REMEMBER I have been cognizant of a team that has been committed to failure, disappointment, and skimping.

Living in a city where teams continually win, it took every ounce of my being to be a fan of a team (teams, Sabres too) that was a joke.

This year, my expectations are rock bottom. There is hope, we have an AWESOME D-Line, in Dareus - Williams - Edwards, we have a legitimate pass rusher in Merriman, we should have one in Moats but that's out the door apparently... We have veteran DB's, we have depth on the D-Line, but who is going to put points on the board? This isn't the Ravens, this isn't Perry Fewell's defense anymore. I can't even think off the top of my head who our Defensive Coordinator is! I know our linebackers coach but not our DC? Wow.

This offense is atrocious. Freddy J is an animal, he has been the rock. Stevie J needs to redo last year to prove me anything, and Spiller is a trick player that has yet to pull a rabbit out of his helmet. Our line sucks, and the game is won in the trenches.

Op, you're right in the aspect that expectations are beyond low, and that disappointment is inevitable with this team, but man... Let's just hope one day it turns around.

[Atags]

When someone is 92 years old and owner, (or since NFL unfortunately is more business like then winning), CEO of a football team, I kinda loss all respect that he knows what he's doing to win and be aggressive.

Usually, not always, but once you hit your 80's, your brain is pretty much fried anyway let alone a 92 year old who we have to rely on to get this 11 year train wreck corrected.

Question to ask is if Ralph was say like 60 yrs old, would he still be making the decisions he is doing now at 92?
I say probably not.

[BertSquirtgum]

i'm excited to see who buys the team when ralph goes to hell. that's the only thing i'm looking forward to.

[Jan Reimers]

We fans have a passion for winning football, or at least good, competitive football. Ralph has a passion for saving money.

We need an owner like Pegula, where fan and owner passions match.

[Night Train]

Can't wait for the puck to drop.

oh wait...wrong forum..

[tampabay25690]

Im excited every year for the 1st few games then I realize that we are just as bad as years past...

I am excited this year because I think we are in the right direction...

[bigbub2352]

A complete joke.. i cant say it enough... a complete joke...its embarrassing

[trapezeus]

This is the least excited I've been for Bills football.

it use to be when we lost important games like the superbowl the rally cry was, "wait until next year."

and now the team is so bad that we see a lot of the posts like this. "this is the least excited I've been for Bills football." To which i say, we use the old rally cry. "Wait until next year."

[Billz_fan]

I to used to get the Sunday Ticket to watch the Bills games. I had that for 6-7 years. I got rid of it before last season or when they hired Chan Gailey. I refuse to spend any money at all on football anymore. No Bills jerseys or anything anymore. When I lived in NY for 37 years I spent mega bucks every football season on the Bills and going to the stadium every week in the fall.

Ralph just does not care and i refuse to line the old farts pockets any longer.

[trapezeus]

We fans have a passion for winning football, or at least good, competitive football. Ralph has a passion for saving money.

We need an owner like Pegula, where fan and owner passions match.

i really hope the sabres bring it during the early part of the season and do incredibly well. i doubt anything short of a meteor hitting the stadium will get the attention of the front office, but when pegula hikes the prices up to a winning team, and people don't think twice and just pull their bills season ticket money, maybe the bills will get the message. and if for some reason the sabres are destined to win the cup, i hope to god Ralph wilson is alive to see why he's such a pathetic failure as an owner.

[Meathead]

im excited for this team and im confident they will do much better than you whiney babies think they will

[Captain Obvious]

im excited for this team and im confident they will do much better than you whiney babies think they will

Yes..You're so confident you predicted a playoff appearance this year which is looking downright laughable

[ALL D]

This team is All "D" once again. For the last few seasons both defense and offense sucked...
Looking forward to watching our defense this season. God knows we will be watching them out there alot.

[trapezeus]

pegula gets a cup in one year of ownership and ralph is sitting on his thumbs for close to 50 years. i'd love that.

[ZEUS]

I wasn't going to renew the NFL Ticket this year either. But, I moved so I got it for free when I transferred my service. I was excited about the team because of the draft. Now after the Evans trade, the push to start Spiller over Fred etc, I'm getting discouraged. I'm usually fishing in the fall on Sunday morning and it's hard to pull myself off the water. If they don't give me something to get excited about I may be done until a new owner takes over.

[OpIv37]

I just have to wonder if the FO has any idea that the fans are onto them and starting to turn.

We've supported this team through a LOT of **** and the FO has to realize that at some point, it's just too much to ask.

[trapezeus]

it doesn't matter if they are on to us or not. until they don't make money they won't change.

i really think a pegula/sabre rocket ride to the front of the pack and looking like a team ready to be a dynasty will actually make the bills address the negative PR.

Because come december if the sabres are looking good and the stadium experience is top notch and we are in the press, it's pretty easy to create an empty ralph wilson for a packed first niagara/HSBC arena.

[justasportsfan]

IN light of everythings thats happened which implies that Buddy has no control due to Ralph meddling again, I'm just not excited as I was prior to Lee getting traded/given away. Don't even have the urge to drop anything I'm supposed to do to watch the games on TV when I don't go to the games.

Feels like Ralph is toying around with the loyal most passionate fans. I'm tired. If Gailey can win despite Ralph maybe it'll all come back.

Trading in my Homer avatar for soemthing more appropriate.

[bf1]

I'm at the angry stage. The worst part is trying not throwing up (or choking them to death) when listening to any remaining optimistic homers.

[Meathead]

bring it *****

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3747/karateposeonbeach.jpg
(actual photo of me)

[YardRat]

bring it *****

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3747/karateposeonbeach.jpg
(actual photo of me)

Nice hat.

[YardRat]

The answers to Life, the Universe and Everything...

1. Ralph is cheap.
2. Nix is an idiot.
3. Gailey is clueless.
4. 42

It's always so easy to take the short route.

[BillsFever21]

Ralph has proven to spend in the past. He didn't blink when Donahoe grabbed all those FA's. He also dished out $ when Levy grabbed Walker and Dockery. It could be that he got tired of paying $ and still not get any results.

I can't wait til' we get a new owner. No matter who Ralph picks as a GM, he's still the common denominator of all our failures.

That was years ago when they actually spent some money when Doanhoe was here. As far as Walker and Dockery goes if I remember right they traded or released other higher paid players that season and that money was just basically used for them guys. Nothing was added to the cap as we were still 10's of millions of dollars under the cap.

[better days]

the bills will draft luck, he'll refuse to play and ask to be traded. we'll trade him for two picks and run fitz out of town. we'llstart with thigpen and hear how he really is quite good and raw.

and that the real goal is to bottom out the following year.

The defense that looked servicable won't get better and the offense will continue to bore the **** out of everyone. rinse and repeat until ralph's funeral.

The two picks the Bills trade for will be a 4th & a 7th the following year that may become a 6th, depending how Luck plays.

[NorthCarBills]

I had the Sunday NFL ticket when I moved so I could watch the Bills. I stopped that a few years ago. I use to travel to see the Bills once a year. This is the first year I decided to save my money and not go see them. While I love the Bills it's hard to justify spending so much when ownership does not care about winning. I guess not making the playoffs in 11 years, seeing bad drafts year after year, bad front office transactions and ownerships refusal to spend to fill glaring weaknesses will take the excitement out of a person

That's exactly my scenario.

[Mr. Miyagi]

i'm excited to see who buys the team when ralph goes to hell. that's the only thing i'm looking forward to.
:rofl: Ralph isn't gonna go to hell.

[Bravo82]

I've been done with the Bills for a few years now. When I moved back to WNY for college in 2007, the first thing I did was buy a pair of season tickets. Even though they went 7-9, the team was entertaining... I renewed my seasons for the following year without second thought.

In '08 they blew a 5-1 start to the season. However the breaking point for me was late in the season vs San Francisco when they laid a total egg at the Ralph...probably the worst game I've ever witnessed... although I heard the Bills/Browns 2009 game was worse.

I haven't felt the same way about this team since. No longer do I get upset over a Buffalo loss. I couldn't even care less about the epic fail vs Pittsburgh last year...nothing surprises me anymore. I don't think I've watched a Bills game from start to finish in 3 years now, and have spent a grand total of $0 on Bills merchandise since I dumped my seasons.

[2slowtogofast]

This organization is sad. If this season is terrible I hope the fans send some kind of message to the f/o at the home games paper bags or somthing of the sort.
Just a thought, If before they fired Dick they told you Gailey would be replacing him an soon after Nix would be the GM would people have been as excited about having a new coach. I think we as fans at least my self get excited when some one terrible is replaced regardless of the fact if the new guy is an upgrade or not. Just hiring someone 'different' does't mean its an upgrade. This team is just a bunch of half measures. Untill Gailey can produce 8 or more wins in a season as far as i am concered it might as well be Jauron
They can say what they want the only thing that matters is results

[2slowtogofast]

and Ralph is living in some dream world if he thinks he has a good legacy in this town

[BLeonard]

:rofl: Ralph isn't gonna go to hell.

Technically, Ralph lives in Detroit... That's not too far from Hell...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan

So, he could very well go there... He might have already been there.

-Bill

[Buffalogic]

bills for wild card!