why doesn't the NFL just

[trapezeus]

award a new set of owners a franchise in buffalo. let the free markets settle it. the owners of the other 32 teams get a cash windfall (including ralph). The new buffalo team sets up shop alternating games at the ralph.

the new team promises a winning tradition, hires competent staff and runs a tight salary cap.

the bills continue to do what they do.

guess which team gets moved to LA during ralph's death. guess which team is bought at pennies since it is not even close to being profitable and there is only one buyer. guess which city got a team dedicated to winning.

nfl gets two teams, still pockets $1bn and puts a team in LA. and it gets one of its best fan bases truly interested in football again.

[ChristopherWalken]

I like the thought but I'm willing to bet this would violate franchise owner zoning privileges.

I bet Ralph and his lawyers would love that.

[trapezeus]

i figured there has to major reasons, but the NFL is suffering as a whole because of this incompetence. The revenue sharing on the seats is seats only. not box seats. so when the stadium was at 80,000, they could be more useful to the other owners. now, they have a smaller stadium AND contribute less.

The city of buffalo is shrinking dramatically. the surrounding areas are only down a little. We can support an 80k stadium if the team was good.

if you gave us a team, even if it failed trying, we would love it compared to what we are going through now.

[trapezeus]

also, thanks for not taking a giant **** on the idea, walken.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Aren't the Packers owned by the fans? Why couldn't that happen in Buffalo?

[ddaryl]

Aren't the Packers owned by the fans? Why couldn't that happen in Buffalo?
as soon as Packers fan managed that coup the NFL changed the rules to ensure that never happens again

[ddaryl]

award a new set of owners a franchise in buffalo. let the free markets settle it. the owners of the other 32 teams get a cash windfall (including ralph). The new buffalo team sets up shop alternating games at the ralph.

the new team promises a winning tradition, hires competent staff and runs a tight salary cap.

the bills continue to do what they do.

guess which team gets moved to LA during ralph's death. guess which team is bought at pennies since it is not even close to being profitable and there is only one buyer. guess which city got a team dedicated to winning.

nfl gets two teams, still pockets $1bn and puts a team in LA. and it gets one of its best fan bases truly interested in football again.

Buffalo is not Chicago LA or NYC... they cannot support 2 teams here.

plus its a 32 team league.. no room for a 33rd team

Nope we simply must wait for Ralph's inevitable end... The over under says it could happen right ..... NOW...... or right ....... NOW...

>
>>
>>>

>>>> NOW

[Ickybaluky]

Yes, I am sure the NFL is going to look into putting a 2nd team in one of their smaller markets where the existing team already has the lowest ticket prices in the league.

[BLeonard]

award a new set of owners a franchise in buffalo. let the free markets settle it. the owners of the other 32 teams get a cash windfall (including ralph). The new buffalo team sets up shop alternating games at the ralph.

the new team promises a winning tradition, hires competent staff and runs a tight salary cap.

the bills continue to do what they do.

guess which team gets moved to LA during ralph's death. guess which team is bought at pennies since it is not even close to being profitable and there is only one buyer. guess which city got a team dedicated to winning.

nfl gets two teams, still pockets $1bn and puts a team in LA. and it gets one of its best fan bases truly interested in football again.

Well...

1: There would then be 33 teams, meaning we'd have a team on the bye every week... Like they did from 1999 to 2002, when they had 31 teams.

2: Fans of the Cincinnati Bengals would then want similar treatment... maybe some fans of other teams, too.

OK, those were kind of tongue-in-cheek reasons.

What the fans need to realize is that the NFL isn't about football... It stopped being about football a long time ago. The NFL (and the teams that mke up the NFL) is a business. Remember a month ago, when they were all arguing over how to split $9 billion dollars? That's $9 billion dollars of FANS' money that they are talking about... Now, that the lockout is over, the Buffalo Bills BUSINESS has decided to keep the team's salary $20 plus million under what the spending limit is. So basically, they want your money, but instead of improving the product, they choose to keep things status quo and pocket the extra coin. After all, if they're making money, why change?

You want the BS to end? Treat the Bills (and the NFL) as they REALLY are: A BUSINESS. The "restaurant" analogy is used a lot. if you go to a restaurant and the service is substandard, do you go back? That's a little simplistic, so I came up with another analogy.

Think of the Bills as a new movie. To see it, you're gonna have to pay $8 since that's what the theater charges for a new movie... Now, you go and the movie sucks. Do you pay the $8 again to see the second movie? You'd probably go to a matinee (reduced price) or wait for the DVD (rebroadcast/highlights).

In this case, the "matinee" would be a cheaper way to see the game. Personally, I go to a bar, pay for food, enjoy the company I'm with and spend maybe $30 a week. But, it's a lot cheaper than going to the game, paying for a ticket, paying for parking, paying for concessions, etc. Also, if you watch at a bar, your money isn't going directly into the Bills' (Ralph's) pocket... let's face it, the bar's gonna have Sunday Ticket whether you're there or not.

Enough people stop going to the restaurant, they have to lower prices or up their quality... And, for those who are afraid the team will move if you don't buy seats? Well, who wants to eat at a bad restaurant, or pay full price for a bad movie?

Bottom line: The NFL keeps telling us "it's a business." Make them start acting like it and investing in it, like good businesses do.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

Yes, I am sure the NFL is going to look into putting a 2nd team in one of their smaller markets where the existing team already has the lowest ticket prices in the league.

Do you know WHY they have the lowest prices? I'll give you a hint: it's not because Ralph's a nice guy.

http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml

Read their lease with the stadium... if the tix are above the NFL average, they pay rent for the stadium. Low tickets ensure they come nowhere near the average, so their stadium is rent-free.

-Bill

[bf1]

LETS PULL A LIBYA/EGYPT AND TAKE THIS MOTHER****ER OVER BY FORCE!!!!

[trapezeus]

the point is precisely that Buffalo can't support two teams. You'd put the screws on Ralph to shape up or ship out. You'd be killing his team's value merely because the crap he runs will not be able to stand up to a team trying to win.

And when no one comes through the front door for ralph, he'll have a cash problem and he'll have to sell. The problem for ralph is that there is only one buyer and they know you can't sit it out while the other team is doing well.

The NFL profits from this because they charged the new buffalo owner $600-700MM to have a team. They can make that discount because when ralph sells to the NFL for $300MM, they can revenue share back financing with the new LA owner. And the LA owner who just spent a cool $1.5-2BN in new stadium design, gets to push the lump sum payment over several years.

Buffalo keeps its team with new ownership, a message has been sent to all owners that hoarding money and not even trying to win isn't going to work, and the LA ownership gets the team on the cheap and gets to build the superstadium he wants to build.

Mike brown would quiver in his feet. It'd be worth it.

but like walken said, there probably bylaws that stop this from happening.

[BLeonard]

the point is precisely that Buffalo can't support two teams. You'd put the screws on Ralph to shape up or ship out. You'd be killing his team's value merely because the crap he runs will not be able to stand up to a team trying to win.

And when no one comes through the front door for ralph, he'll have a cash problem and he'll have to sell. The problem for ralph is that there is only one buyer and they know you can't sit it out while the other team is doing well.

The NFL profits from this because they charged the new buffalo owner $600-700MM to have a team. They can make that discount because when ralph sells to the NFL for $300MM, they can revenue share back financing with the new LA owner. And the LA owner who just spent a cool $1.5-2BN in new stadium design, gets to push the lump sum payment over several years.

Buffalo keeps its team with new ownership, a message has been sent to all owners that hoarding money and not even trying to win isn't going to work, and the LA ownership gets the team on the cheap and gets to build the superstadium he wants to build.

Mike brown would quiver in his feet. It'd be worth it.

but like walken said, there probably bylaws that stop this from happening.


So... What happens when the new owner realizes he can do the same thing Ralph has done for over 50 years and still pull an insane profit? How many teams is the NFL gonna give Buffalo?

I like your thinking, don't get me wrong, it's just that NFL teams aren't owned by rich fans, for the most part. They're owned by rich BUSINESSMEN and businessmen do everything they can to maximize profits while minimizing how much they have to pay to get that profit. If the customers allow them to spend less to maximize their profits, then they see that as "good business."

Customers stop buying, that's when they change the menu.

-Bill

[trapezeus]

i don't think that's a genuine argument in terms of how many times can the NFL do it. it's meant to be like a nuclear option.

but you bring up a good point, how do you stop the second group from replicating the Ralph model. I don't know. it takes vetting that owner. and in the end, it's just that ralph spends his money very poorly. you can run a team $20MM under cap with a great scouting staff. and then take your shots at max cap when it looks like it's close. he's just too old to do it and has a group of guys who have clearly benefitted from this way of thinking for so long.

[BLeonard]

he's just too old to do it and has a group of guys who have clearly benefitted from this way of thinking for so long.

I wanted to highlight this quote, cause I had a thought...

What if part of Overdorf/Littman's retirement packages hinge on the sale price of the franchise.... Think they'd want to keep costs as low as possible?

-Bill

[trapezeus]

i don't know if its explicit, but it makes sense. a new owner isn't going to keep people who failed and aren't their guy. they will get Lee Evan'd so to speak. So perhaps ralph has cut private deals of the ownership price the same way larry quinn walked away with $10mm in the purchase of sabres.

i just wish the so called guys who want to be the future owners could start pushing buttons that panicked the wilsons. I think the NFL does want to keep the bills in buffalo or at least the east coast.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

The simple answer to the original question is this: the other 31 owners want to win. Anything that threatens their ability to do that, they will oppose. So, having a patsy like Buffalo is great for their bottom line, since it assures the Jets and Pats a shot at the division title-- and thus, playoffs-- every year. Why would Kraft or Johnson ever agree to kill the golden goose?

If you're looking for help from the league office, you can forget it. Remember Goodell's little steering stunt with Vick? They want Buffalo to lose.

[Billz_fan]

The Bills need an owner that is a fan also. Someone who is driven to win the Super Bowl and everything he does is with that goal in mind. You know, like a real owner would :laughter:

Ralph has no interest in winning the SB unless it happens with the structure he has in place. Not likely unless there are about 30 teams that go down in plane crashes and we get lucky and beat the other team.

[PromoTheRobot]

You're dreaming is you think the NFL getting involved would result in anything other than the Bills moving. As bad as Ralph is, he is the ONLY reason Buffalo is in the NFL! Think about that.

PTR

[kishoph]

You're dreaming is you think the NFL getting involved would result in anything other than the Bills moving. As bad as Ralph is, he is the ONLY reason Buffalo is in the NFL! Think about that.

PTR


How much of the current happenings is RALPH responsible for ? We have not heard from RALPH publicly in about a year. I have a hard time thinking that at age 92 RALPH is trying to micro manage this team. I think the blame lies with his underlings BRANDON, OVERDORF and LITTMAN (3 pigs). These three hold a lot of power at OBD. If I'm not mistaken, none of these three have a football background, they are more so money crunchers, looking for profits other than wins and losses. I love RALPH WILSON, he has been so important to the league and of course the BILLS and it hurts when I see him being bashed, at times to the point where people wish his demise. Of course these were his hiring, but it's not at all unusual for people at an advanced age to put all trust into someone who they think has their best interest in mind (BRANDON). I believe that RALPH is the victim of these three frauds who don't care about the history or future of the BILLS other than their annual paycheck.

[HAMMER]

What a waste of bandwidth, MORAN.

[better days]

Buffalo is not Chicago LA or NYC... they cannot support 2 teams here.

plus its a 32 team league.. no room for a 33rd team

Nope we simply must wait for Ralph's inevitable end... The over under says it could happen right ..... NOW...... or right ....... NOW...

>
>>
>>>

>>>> NOW

Living here in Fla, I can tell you it is very possible Ralph lives another 8-10 years. There are people 100 years old still driving cars down here.

[ddaryl]

Living here in Fla, I can tell you it is very possible Ralph lives another 8-10 years. There are people 100 years old still driving cars down here.

Ralph doesn't look that durable.. The last few shots I saw of him in the booth he doesn't look like he has that many left.