Sources: Bills Extension for Williams Close, Johnson Next

[BLeonard]

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/9034669.php?pid=65832



Sources have told WGR that an extension for Kyle Williams is almost complete, and that once it's done the Bills will turn their attention toward extending leading wide receiver Stevie Johnson.


So, at the start of the week, all these articles come out, talking about how cheap the Bills have been... Now, they have signed a WR, a LB and are working on extensions for two guys already on the team...

Maybe it's me, but maybe all of those articles woke the Bills' FO up a bit...? I know the Williams deal had been discussed before, but, after the initial report, we didn't hear anything for a couple weeks, these articles come out and now, we're seeing moves made and deals being worked on??

Don't get me wrong, extensions for Williams and Johnson are good things, as is the new LB signing... But, the timing is a bit peculiar.

-Bill

[Michael82]

It's definitely interesting that all this comes out after the articles that ripped the Bills and said they are run by a bunch of penny pinchers.

[cocamide]

Is everyone thinking what I'm thinking? How will the Bills FO screw this one up?

[B-DON]

I still hate Ralph. You shouldn't get get credit for keeping your only above avg player. If I was Kyle I'd turn down any contract this joke of a franchise offers him he ever wants a chance to sniff the playoffs

[Michael82]

Having said that, I'm loving this news! I can't wait to see Kyle Williams locked up long term. He's a beast and will be even better next to Dareus! Also, locking up Stevie Johnson is a good move too. He deserves to get paid a lot more than a 7th round pick. Next up after those two...not Fitz. Pay Fred Jackson! He's underpaid and a damn good running back. He deserves it!

[bigbub2352]

I like both extensions..both guys are football players u want on your team...dont extend fitz until half way thru the season if not at the end before FA...gotta see what he does as a starter for a full season first...

[BLeonard]

It's definitely interesting that all this comes out after the articles that ripped the Bills and said they are run by a bunch of penny pinchers.

You've got some pull, Mikey... Get someone to write another article about the cheap-ass Bills... Hell, we might get an Offensive Lineman or two out of it. :laughing:

-Bill

[B-DON]

I wouldn't resign Jackson. I love the guy but for rb's he getting long in the tooth.

[Buddo]

I don't think it's anything other than coincidental timing.
WRs going down last weekend = Martin signing.
Williams has been known to be in discussions before this.
The Morrison signing might fall into the 'spend some money' argument, but tbh, from what he's said himself, he's been mulling a variety of offers over, and has just now made his decision. I think he also said that Merriman has been 'recruiting' him, for around a week, also.

As an aside, I don't think Williams will get silly money, but he will get a good chunk of a raise, with probably a larger guarantee. I don't think Williams, is after every penny he can get though.
It'll be interesting to see what Stevie Johnson gets though. Big production for one season, shouldn't equate to the sort of deal evans got, but he could well be in the $6 million per range, and that is probably fair tbh.

[The King]

I agree Jackson is next if Fitzy is playing well in week 8 we can discuss it then.

[jimbohastle51]

fitz wont get extended before week 6. they will want to see him play better. he was serviceable last season but if you look at all 15 of his picks half were on horrible decisions by him. also i am not totally sold on the team seeing him as there long term answer. he is not a 10 million a year qb and that is the going rate for first big contract qbs. that is what brees got at first in NO that is what romo and rodgers got in dallas and GB. no way fitz has proved enough. lock up williams and johnson before the start of the season and let fitz play through the first 3rd-half of the season that make a decision. to be honest if tebow does get traded do not be surprised if it is to buffalo. gailey was a florida QB and its no secret if he fell to us with our second round pick we were taking him. i am not sold on his skills in a more traditional offense, but in gaileys gimmick spread offense he could excel. unless fitz takes like a 3yr 15million contract or 2 year 12million deal he is not getting signed. the bills will want him at a team friendly rate so when they do get someone they really like he is not overpaid and can step back into a backup role or be easily movable for a draft pick or picks. again this is just my opinion.

[madness]

Those articles had no influence on the FO. That's almost as ridiculous as people believing a 92 year old man is up in the rafters pulling everyone's strings or we dumped players like Walker, Edwards, Evans to save money.

[better days]

I wouldn't resign Jackson. I love the guy but for rb's he getting long in the tooth.

I was just going to reply to Michaels post, I would resign Jackson but only for 2-3 years.

[B-DON]

I was just going to reply to Michaels post, I would resign Jackson but only for 2-3 years.
I could handle a 2 yr deal but anymore would be pushing it unless he doesn't mind being a back up. Rb's go down hill fast

[tampabay25690]

I think the reason the Bills havent went out and spend alot of $$$ was becasue of the extensions that will have to get done....

To be honest having $20+ mill of cap space says nothing to me..
I understand some of you think Ralph is cheap but what do u want them to do....
Over pay for a guy like POZ??????

[OpIv37]

Is everyone thinking what I'm thinking? How will the Bills FO screw this one up?

I'll tell you how.

Johnson and Williams are good, and re-signing them is a good thing. But, clearly, they are not enough to make us winners on their own.

They will use the fact that they signed Johnson and Williams as an excuse to not sign any FA's this year or next. Hence, we retain what little talent we have, but the team still fails to improve.

[ddaryl]

It's definitely interesting that all this comes out after the articles that ripped the Bills and said they are run by a bunch of penny pinchers.

Williams extension has been talked about for a couple of weeks.. Speculation on Johnson was also talked about...


The Bills aren't cheap.. they've spent massively before.. There just guilty of numeorus FO blunders... and I still believe Nix and Gailey are a good thing

[don137]

Is everyone thinking what I'm thinking? How will the Bills FO screw this one up?
My hunch is they will screw it up by making it a low salary the first two years of the contract with big money when the salary cap floor is in place so it will help them reach the cap floor. Most normal teams that want to win will front load it since they are so low against the cap to free up more money later

[better days]

fitz wont get extended before week 6. they will want to see him play better. he was serviceable last season but if you look at all 15 of his picks half were on horrible decisions by him. also i am not totally sold on the team seeing him as there long term answer. he is not a 10 million a year qb and that is the going rate for first big contract qbs. that is what brees got at first in NO that is what romo and rodgers got in dallas and GB. no way fitz has proved enough. lock up williams and johnson before the start of the season and let fitz play through the first 3rd-half of the season that make a decision. to be honest if tebow does get traded do not be surprised if it is to buffalo. gailey was a florida QB and its no secret if he fell to us with our second round pick we were taking him. i am not sold on his skills in a more traditional offense, but in gaileys gimmick spread offense he could excel. unless fitz takes like a 3yr 15million contract or 2 year 12million deal he is not getting signed. the bills will want him at a team friendly rate so when they do get someone they really like he is not overpaid and can step back into a backup role or be easily movable for a draft pick or picks. again this is just my opinion.

I pretty much agree with you. I just listened to Sals podcast & learned the Bills gave Thigpen $11 Mill for 3 years, that is more money per year than the 4 yr $12 Mill the Jags gave to Gabbert. Unless Fitz has a great year, I doubt the Bills resign him at all.

I think the Bills will go with Thigpen until the next QB, most likly a HIGH draft pick is ready to start. I would be happy to trade a 4th for Tebow. The Bills are ALWAYS happy to take a 4th, lets see if they could talk another team into that as well.

[justasportsfan]

does resigning both players mean we're better compared to when Lee was here? No. We still need more OL and chances are, we're waiting for teams to cut players before we grab some.

[OpIv37]

Williams extension has been talked about for a couple of weeks.. Speculation on Johnson was also talked about...


The Bills aren't cheap.. they've spent massively before.. There just guilty of numeorus FO blunders... and I still believe Nix and Gailey are a good thing

We are sitting at more than $20 million below the salary cap.
We traded our best WR with no plan on how to replace him.
We couldn't keep Poz (not that I wanted to, but it's not about what I want) or sign Clabo.
Our coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league, if not the lowest.

The Bills are cheap. Oh sure, on rare occasions they'll spend massively, but then they'll use that massive expenditure as an excuse to go YEARS without spending any money. Who was our last expensive FA? Dockery?

There is simply no way to intelligently argue that the Bills aren't cheap. And before you say it, it's not just me being critical or negative. Many other people- from posters on this board to national media writers, have said the exact same thing.

[Mad Max]

PHEW!

I read the words "Bills Extension" and automatically thought oh NO, they extended Kelsay again?!??!?!?

[OpIv37]

PHEW!

I read the words "Bills Extension" and automatically thought oh NO, they extended Kelsay again?!??!?!?

They're waiting until there's a cap floor in 2013 to extend Kelsay. Then they'll give him 8 mill a year through 2020 to make sure we never have to worry about being under the threshold.

[trapezeus]

these signings will be messed up because they won't give them anyone else to help them be a better team. they won't add legitimate players to the OL. they'll let other who contribute go.

it's not about signing one or two people. it's about getting the team to winning. and the fact that they can't do it still proves that its not just cheapness...it's total baffonery over at 1 bills drive.

[better days]

We are sitting at more than $20 million below the salary cap.
We traded our best WR with no plan on how to replace him.
We couldn't keep Poz (not that I wanted to, but it's not about what I want) or sign Clabo.
Our coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league, if not the lowest.

The Bills are cheap. Oh sure, on rare occasions they'll spend massively, but then they'll use that massive expenditure as an excuse to go YEARS without spending any money. Who was our last expensive FA? Dockery?

There is simply no way to intelligently argue that the Bills aren't cheap. And before you say it, it's not just me being critical or negative. Many other people- from posters on this board to national media writers, have said the exact same thing.

You forgot to mention the Bills only traded Evans for a 4th RND pick. That trade SCREAMS CHEAP. It did NOTHING to improve the team now or in the future. It was a SALARY DUMP without question.

And as you said, NOBODY in the National media has written or spoken anything but negative reviews about that trade by the Bills. All they say is how much it has helped the Ravens & they can't believe the Bills traded Evans for ONLY a 4th rnd pick.

[X-Era]

These are smart moves from the FO. But, they also are one any NFL FO should be making. This does nothing for the overall talent since these players were already here. And these moves were paid for in part by trading Evans.

And, I'm not convinced they will get a deal done with Stevie before he becomes a UFA next year. Hes going to want Santonio Holmes type money and I think the Bills will be scared by an 8-10 mill a year price tag.

The key point should remain, the overall talent isnt good enough and we continue to ignore it. Extending these guys is nice but it also is simply keeping what you have, not getting better.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Again, think from a GM's viewpoint - NOT a fan's view:

The Bills are not contending this year --- :check:
Who will be here in two years when we are contending, other than players we drafted? Answer: Kyle William, Steve Johnson.

I'm not sure about Fitzpatrick, even less sure about Jackson.

To me, regardless how Fitz does this year, we are spending a high draft pick on QB next year, probably the first pick we have. Here is what I think the likely scenario: they will ask Fitz to sign a practically high-end backup contract. If he does, great. If he balks, he walks. The Bills will find a veteran to bridge for a year - remember what San Diego did with Flutie.

Jackson has the leverage now because of the underwhelming performance of Spiller so far and he is using it to his advantage. But business is business. Jackson is signed to 2013 and he'll be 32 by that time. There is zero chance he gets another extension.

[mysticsoto]

You forgot to mention the Bills only traded Evans for a 4th RND pick. That trade SCREAMS CHEAP. It did NOTHING to improve the team now or in the future. It was a SALARY DUMP without question.

And as you said, NOBODY in the National media has written or spoken anything but negative reviews about that trade by the Bills. All they say is how much it has helped the Ravens & they can't believe the Bills traded Evans for ONLY a 4th rnd pick.

Personally I think it screams DUMB more than cheap...

[Night Train]

Fred Jackson may be 30 but he hasn't taken a pounding like most his age have.
He's the heart and soul of this Offense and anyone thinking otherwise is not even watching the games.

Give Fred his $$.

[Mad Max]

Fred Jackson may be 30 but he hasn't taken a pounding like most his age have.
He's the heart and soul of this Offense and anyone thinking otherwise is not even watching the games.

Give Fred his $$.

I'm usually not a fan of signing old guys, but I agree with this one. FreJack needs to be re-signed to a 3 year deal. Spiller is still suckling on the teet (and may never get off of it), so without Freddy we are a complete disaster on an already bad offensive team.

In addition we'll need his blocking skills to help keep our next QB upright while he learns. Finally, we need not let him fall into Belichek's grubby little paws lest he become Antowain Smith part deux...helping them win yet another Super Bowl.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

It's smart to finding ways to increase your value, like Chris Johnson of the Titans trying to include wide receiver stats to establish his worth rather just being the top paid RB now. But from the management viewpoint, you just can't do that.

Fred Jackson is 30, the best the Bills have. But league wide, where is he ranked? I don't believe just because you are the starting RB, we have to pay you starting money. I pay talent. If you are a super star, I pay super star money. If you are average player, i pay you average player money.

[better days]

Personally I think it screams DUMB more than cheap...

I think is screams both DUMB & CHEAP. It was CHEAP to dump Evans, it was DUMB to only get a 4th in return.

[HAMMER]

Again, think from a GM's viewpoint - NOT a fan's view:

The Bills are not contending this year --- :check:
Who will be here in two years when we are contending, other than players we drafted? Answer: Kyle William, Steve Johnson.

I'm not sure about Fitzpatrick, even less sure about Jackson.

To me, regardless how Fitz does this year, we are spending a high draft pick on QB next year, probably the first pick we have. Here is what I think the likely scenario: they will ask Fitz to sign a practically high-end backup contract. If he does, great. If he balks, he walks. The Bills will find a veteran to bridge for a year - remember what San Diego did with Flutie.

Jackson has the leverage now because of the underwhelming performance of Spiller so far and he is using it to his advantage. But business is business. Jackson is signed to 2013 and he'll be 32 by that time. There is zero chance he gets another extension.

I tend to agree, I love Freddy, perhaps as much as any player ever. But I doubt he sees any kind of extension or new money. They just gave him an extension in May 09, and they certainly want Spiller to play a larger role.

[kingJofNYC]

If Fitz gets an extension it will be well after the season is over, and that's if he performs exceptionally.

Ralph was already burned by one mid-season extension in recent years, anyone can get off to a hot/fast start.

[psubills62]

Good to hear. I think they'll re-sign both Williams and Johnson, and probably Fitzpatrick. I don't believe for a second that this FO sees Fitz as the future. He'll be around to start for another year, maybe two while whatever kid we draft develops behind him.

I would not mind Fred getting a raise and a small extension (1-2 years added). I personally think the guy deserves it, although I think his whole situation has been overblown.

[trapezeus]

the bills are aware Tiki Barber is trying to get back into the league right? I mean we already have an angry locker room. and we are short on running backs, and this could mean jersey's could be sold. Anyone want to sign the man and his fumbles to a big contract?

that's how the bills typically deal with PR issues.

[jimbohastle51]

I pretty much agree with you. I just listened to Sals podcast & learned the Bills gave Thigpen $11 Mill for 3 years, that is more money per year than the 4 yr $12 Mill the Jags gave to Gabbert. Unless Fitz has a great year, I doubt the Bills resign him at all.

I think the Bills will go with Thigpen until the next QB, most likly a HIGH draft pick is ready to start. I would be happy to trade a 4th for Tebow. The Bills are ALWAYS happy to take a 4th, lets see if they could talk another team into that as well.

precisely, giving thigpen that money was exactly what the bills did with fitzpatrick when we had edwards. you get a guy how can manage for a reasonable deal while seeing if what you have is worth investing in. so if fitz is sub-par than they let him walk thigpen is getting right around what fitz gets paid to take over in a system he knows while we draft a guy to sit for a year or 2 behind thigpen. or if we took that 4th that we got from balt and used it with a late round pick in the 13 draft bring in tebow (hypothetically of course) and then he plays sparingly behind thigpen for a year or 2. the bills qb position is in a very manageable position RIGHT NOW. i am not saying that its a great spot but if fitz sucks gailey has the 1 of the guys he wanted once he came back into the league anyways and if fitz is good they can force him into a team friendly deal or let him walk.
as far as jackson goes we got so lucky with him being a ERFA a couple years ago we basically bullied him into taking a long term horrible contract 4yrs at around 1.50million per. but since he was a ERFA he could either take it or not play in the NFL because the bills exclusively had his rights. now he has 2 years left is on the wrong side of 30 and IS playing this year out so next year in a contract year he will be almost 32 and the even if the bills do extend him he wont get a huge raise. fred jackson has been the bargain of all bargains for the buffalo bills and will continue to be until the bills are done with him. thomas jones after consecutive 1000 yard seasons on the wrong side of 30 only got 2million per from the chiefs.... freddy isnt getting a huge raise.
again i do firmly believe (and i am not saying i like it but i do believe gailey fantasizes about the kid) that if tebow hits waivers or gets released the bills pick him up imediately and will be the 1st team able to do so that would have interest and if he goes on the trade market because again in my opinion after seeing the thigpen contract, the bills will give up a 3rd-4th rounder for him and they have put themselves in position to bring him in and let him sit for a year or 2 behind thigpen. of course there is the chance that fitz blows it up this season but gentlemen this is year 2 in the sytem for fitz and he has 88 yards 1int and a 48rating against the bears and broncos. it may just be preseason but the guy is throwing and handing off to the same teammates and the same line in front of him from last year (urbik and pears did start the end of last season) so i dont think anything beyond serviceable is going to happen which will not garner a new deal.

[DraftBoy]

Im all for extending Williams but Id hold on Johnson (and especially Fitz) till after this season.

[BillsWin]

Yeah..... Still waiting on offensive tackle help.

[BillsFever21]

I like the Williams extension but not sure about the Johnson one yet. If it's for a fair value then I will be happy for it but if he ends up with a Lee Evans type of contract it would be a bad deal. One decent season doesn't warrant a long-term high priced contract just yet. Especially until you can see what he does as the #1 WR. I could handle around a 4yr-24 million dollars with maybe 10 million guaranteed right now but that would be it.

What the Bills usually do is end up doing is overpaying any players they do re-sign for their overall value. Guys like Evans, Kelsay and others.

[BillsFever21]

I definitely wouldn't give Fitzpatrick a contract extension just yet. You need to wait and see how he plays this season. I would like to wait until midseason for Johnson and see how he is doing. He is a FA after this year and they are probably worried if he has a good season he will cost even more or leave as a FA.

[cordog]

We are sitting at more than $20 million below the salary cap.
We traded our best WR with no plan on how to replace him.
We couldn't keep Poz (not that I wanted to, but it's not about what I want) or sign Clabo.
Our coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league, if not the lowest.

The Bills are cheap. Oh sure, on rare occasions they'll spend massively, but then they'll use that massive expenditure as an excuse to go YEARS without spending any money. Who was our last expensive FA? Dockery?

There is simply no way to intelligently argue that the Bills aren't cheap. And before you say it, it's not just me being critical or negative. Many other people- from posters on this board to national media writers, have said the exact same thing.

The Bills were at the salary cap maxium, regularly between 1995-2001. Do you remember signing Speilman and Quinn Early, both at the time were prize free agents. They also traded for Bledsoe in 2002 who had a HUGE deal at the time. In 2003 they signed probably the biggest FA in Takeo Spikes and signed Sam Adams and Troy Vincent. How quickly we forget that Ralph was ready to pay Shannahan, Cowher, or Gruden whatever they wanted two years ago. Who exactly would you like to spend all this money on? Their drafts prior to Nix have absolutely sucked. Would you have liked to wasted money on Nate Clements and Willis McGahee? No thanks. Buddy has said many times that you build through the draft. Thats what they are doing. How many free agents can you name that the Steelers have signed in the past decade? They draft well and sign their own players. Once (Hopefully) when the draftees start developing they will spend money to keep their own players. I know its been a long ten years, but don't blame this current administration for past failures. And how can you ***** about the Bills not signing Clabo? They offered him a contract and he decided to stay with Falcons...how is that the Bills fault?

[X-Era]

The Bills were at the salary cap maxium, regularly between 1995-2001. Do you remember signing Speilman and Quinn Early, both at the time were prize free agents. They also traded for Bledsoe in 2002 who had a HUGE deal at the time. In 2003 they signed probably the biggest FA in Takeo Spikes and signed Sam Adams and Troy Vincent. How quickly we forget that Ralph was ready to pay Shannahan, Cowher, or Gruden whatever they wanted two years ago. Who exactly would you like to spend all this money on? Their drafts prior to Nix have absolutely sucked. Would you have liked to wasted money on Nate Clements and Willis McGahee? No thanks. Buddy has said many times that you build through the draft. Thats what they are doing. How many free agents can you name that the Steelers have signed in the past decade? They draft well and sign their own players. Once (Hopefully) when the draftees start developing they will spend money to keep their own players. I know its been a long ten years, but don't blame this current administration for past failures. And how can you ***** about the Bills not signing Clabo? They offered him a contract and he decided to stay with Falcons...how is that the Bills fault?This OL, right now, is sub-par. The Bills know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Yet they made a total of one attempt to make it better from FA. There are still players out there who are better than our current backups and starters. Not making that investment may cause losses.

That is a failure of this current regime.

[Night Train]

We can keep giving Kelsay these insane extensions but Fred Jackson can't get 3 years 15 Mil while basically carrying our Offense ?

Which relative of Overdorf are some of you ?

[cordog]

This OL, right now, is sub-par. The Bills know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Yet they made a total of one attempt to make it better from FA. There are still players out there who are better than our current backups and starters. Not making that investment may cause losses.

That is a failure of this current regime.


And I agree with that but I would be willing to bet that Nix will be combing through the cuts when they are made. As far as FA's go....other than Clabo, there really wasn't much out there worth spending money on.

[BLeonard]

How quickly we forget that Ralph was ready to pay Shannahan, Cowher, or Gruden whatever they wanted two years ago.

The rest of your points, I won't fight you on... But this one, I will.

Just because the Bills SAY they are willing to do something, such as sign a Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, etc, doesn't mean that when push comes to shove they will do WHAT IT TAKES to make it happen.

There were reports out that the Bills talked to Shanahan and Cowher. My guess is, if the Bills had offered either of these guys what they wanted, as far as compensation, one of them would be our Head Coach today.

Let me ask you this: Why didn't the Bills go after Marty Schottenheimer, or Brian Billick? Say what you want about them, but they are both more successful head coaches than Chan Gailey. Shottenheimer, apparently, was interested in the position: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/9487/marty-schottenheimer-wanted-bills-gig



Schottenheimer had a strong desire to return to coaching after three years away from the sidelines and had an ally in former Bills general manager Buddy Nix. They became close while working together with the San Diego Chargers.

But the Bills couldn't consider Schottenheimer a candidate because Wilson wasn't comfortable with him, the sources said.


So, what was it Wilson wasn't "comfortable" with? My guess would have to be his asking price.

Point is, it's real easy for a mouthpiece to go out and say that they will spend $10 million on a Head Coach... it's a completely different thing to actually go out and DO it. It's also another thing to give a big-name coach the sort of decision making choices he wants to have included in a potential deal.

One final point: I recall hearing Russ Brandon on the radio, just after the lockout ended, stating that Ralph Wilson would "spend every dollar of the salary cap." Now, I can't link it, cause it was on the radio, but here's a link to the thread created, mentioning the statement: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=204019

Do you HONESTLY think that they'll be spending "every dollar of the cap?" Because, I, for one, highly doubt it. But, it sounds good to say...

-Bill

[cordog]

The rest of your points, I won't fight you on... But this one, I will.

Just because the Bills SAY they are willing to do something, such as sign a Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden, etc, doesn't mean that when push comes to shove they will do WHAT IT TAKES to make it happen.

There were reports out that the Bills talked to Shanahan and Cowher. My guess is, if the Bills had offered either of these guys what they wanted, as far as compensation, one of them would be our Head Coach today.

Let me ask you this: Why didn't the Bills go after Marty Schottenheimer, or Brian Billick? Say what you want about them, but they are both more successful head coaches than Chan Gailey. Shottenheimer, apparently, was interested in the position: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/9487/marty-schottenheimer-wanted-bills-gig




So, what was it Wilson wasn't "comfortable" with? My guess would have to be his asking price.

Point is, it's real easy for a mouthpiece to go out and say that they will spend $10 million on a Head Coach... it's a completely different thing to actually go out and DO it. It's also another thing to give a big-name coach the sort of decision making choices he wants to have included in a potential deal.

One final point: I recall hearing Russ Brandon on the radio, just after the lockout ended, stating that Ralph Wilson would "spend every dollar of the salary cap." Now, I can't link it, cause it was on the radio, but here's a link to the thread created, mentioning the statement: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=204019

Do you HONESTLY think that they'll be spending "every dollar of the cap?" Because, I, for one, highly doubt it. But, it sounds good to say...

-Bill

Russ Brandon flew to Denver to try and sell the Bills to Shannahan. It was reported that they were offering 13 mil/yr and a percentage of the franchise (I don't recall the amount). So yes they were going after him, Cowher wasn't coming back, and we know now that unfortunetly his wife had cancer, which I'm sure had some bearing on his decision, and Gruden has turned down everything because he is happy doing Monday Night Football. As far as Marty goes, your guess is as good as mine, but I don't think it was his asking price. He hasn't had alot of interest since he was fired so I doubt he's asking for alot of money. No one has had any interest in Billick. So why hasn't any other club went after Marty or Billick? Is Tennessee, Minnesota, Dallas, SF, Oak, Denver, Carolina,etc cheap also?

[BLeonard]

Russ Brandon flew to Denver to try and sell the Bills to Shannahan. It was reported that they were offering 13 mil/yr and a percentage of the franchise (I don't recall the amount). So yes they were going after him, Cowher wasn't coming back, and we know now that unfortunetly his wife had cancer, which I'm sure had some bearing on his decision, and Gruden has turned down everything because he is happy doing Monday Night Football. As far as Marty goes, your guess is as good as mine, but I don't think it was his asking price. He hasn't had alot of interest since he was fired so I doubt he's asking for alot of money. No one has had any interest in Billick. So why hasn't any other club went after Marty or Billick? Is Tennessee, Minnesota, Dallas, SF, Oak, Denver, Carolina,etc cheap also?

The bolded part is the issue... Just because that's what was REPORTED, doesn't mean that's what was offered.

As for Cowher, his wife wasn't diagnosed with cancer until February, 2010... Which was well after the Bills had talked to Cowher and then, went and hired Gailey. If Cowher's wife was a major issue, I don't see why Cowher would have even talked to the Bills about the position. Make sense?

Say what you will about Brian Billick, but the man has a Super Bowl ring. The complaint about Schottenheimer is "he can't win in the payoffs." Well, damn, you know how much I'd like to see the Bills even IN the playoffs?

As for other teams, the ones you listed weren't looking for head coaches prior to the 2010 season, so I don't see the relevance. But, Dallas, Carolina, Minnesota and Oakland all promoted from within. especially with Dallas and Minnesota, the new head coaches (Garrett and Frazier) have been candidates for HC jobs in the past. Rivera (Carolina) too, to an extent. Denver got a head coach with a good amount of experience. San Fran got one of the better college coaches out there in Harbaugh, who also has NFL experience, playing and coaching. Munchak has been with the Oilers/Titans for 30 years as a player and coach.

Obviously, I don't know all the details and neither do you, but when I hear the Bills making these "money is no object" claims, while throwing names like Shanahan, Cowher, etc out there... Then, they trot out Chan Gailey? Then, they proclaim "we'll spend every dollar of the cap," yet they sit $20 plus million under and have possible the worst offensive line in the NFL and haven't made any significant upgrades since Nix and Gailey got here 2 offseasons ago? What they're saying doesn't add up to the on-field product.

-Bill

[cordog]

The bolded part is the issue... Just because that's what was REPORTED, doesn't mean that's what was offered.

As for Cowher, his wife wasn't diagnosed with cancer until February, 2010... Which was well after the Bills had talked to Cowher and then, went and hired Gailey. If Cowher's wife was a major issue, I don't see why Cowher would have even talked to the Bills about the position. Make sense?

Say what you will about Brian Billick, but the man has a Super Bowl ring. The complaint about Schottenheimer is "he can't win in the payoffs." Well, damn, you know how much I'd like to see the Bills even IN the playoffs?

As for other teams, the ones you listed weren't looking for head coaches prior to the 2010 season, so I don't see the relevance. But, Dallas, Carolina, Minnesota and Oakland all promoted from within. especially with Dallas and Minnesota, the new head coaches (Garrett and Frazier) have been candidates for HC jobs in the past. Rivera (Carolina) too, to an extent. Denver got a head coach with a good amount of experience. San Fran got one of the better college coaches out there in Harbaugh, who also has NFL experience, playing and coaching. Munchak has been with the Oilers/Titans for 30 years as a player and coach.

Obviously, I don't know all the details and neither do you, but when I hear the Bills making these "money is no object" claims, while throwing names like Shanahan, Cowher, etc out there... Then, they trot out Chan Gailey? Then, they proclaim "we'll spend every dollar of the cap," yet they sit $20 plus million under and have possible the worst offensive line in the NFL and haven't made any significant upgrades since Nix and Gailey got here 2 offseasons ago? What they're saying doesn't add up to the on-field product.

-Bill

Well I am going by the ONLY thing ANY of us have to go by...reports. Unless you are the son or a relative of either Russ Brandon or Mike Shannahan, then you don't know what was offered either. The fact that Russ Brandon flew out to Denver to meet with him shows that the Bills must have been in the ballpark of what he was looking for. You were just speculating about how much Schottenheimer was asking, but you don't want to believe a report about how much the Bills were offering Shannahan?

Cowher DIDN'T talk to the Bills....they called and he wasn't interested, but told them to go after Gailey, because he felt he was a good coach. That doesn't mean that the Bills wouldn't have offered him alot of money, he just wasnt interested in returning to the NFL, and has turned down every position that has been offered.

I guess you dont understand what I was saying about Billick and Shotenheimer........THEY ARE STILL UNEMPLOYED! So what I am saying is the clubs that were looking for coaches, even this year, didn't hire them. It really has no relevance if they hired within like Minnesota and Dallas or went outside the organization, they still weren't looking to hire either of those two. If your saying that the Bills are cheap for not signing Marty or Billick, why arent the other clubs that passed on them cheap?

Look, I don't know if they will spend to the cap, I'm not going to rush to judgement based on this year alone. I would rather them spend smartly than to just throw money at guys like Dockery and Walker again. I guess we shall see what happens with the cap in the coming years.

[BLeonard]

Cowher DIDN'T talk to the Bills....they called and he wasn't interested, but told them to go after Gailey, because he felt he was a good coach. That doesn't mean that the Bills wouldn't have offered him alot of money, he just wasnt interested in returning to the NFL, and has turned down every position that has been offered.


To quote the great Willy Wonka... Wrong, sir... Wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792467



Even before Buddy Nix was named the Buffalo Bills' general manager, league sources say there was a "stealth meeting" with Bill Cowher last week.

Another source said the Bills' meeting with Cowher occurred in his hometown, Raleigh, N.C.


There's also an interesting little tidbit at the bottom of that link I provided before, regarding Schottenheimer:



The Bills did extend an interview request to Schottenheimer's son, New York Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. The Jets granted permission last week, but Brian Schottenheimer declined the invitation.


So, Ralph "wasn't comfortable" with Marty... But, his kid was alright to interview?

Sorry, something doesn't jive there... If they had hired Marty, there was a good chance Brian might have come along with him, as an OC and taken over in a few years or something, when Marty was ready to hang it up, or take a Front Office position or something.

On top of that, Nix was already familiar with Marty from their time in San Diego... They did ok together out there, unless 14-2 isn't good enough for you.

We might just have to agree to disagree, but I've watched these "rebuilding" stages for over a decade now, with no real progress made, a dumpster fire at offensive line and $20 plus million available to spend under the cap.

-Bill

[cordog]

To quote the great Willy Wonka... Wrong, sir... Wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792467



There's also an interesting little tidbit at the bottom of that link I provided before, regarding Schottenheimer:



So, Ralph "wasn't comfortable" with Marty... But, his kid was alright to interview?

Sorry, something doesn't jive there... If they had hired Marty, there was a good chance Brian might have come along with him, as an OC and taken over in a few years or something, when Marty was ready to hang it up, or take a Front Office position or something.

On top of that, Nix was already familiar with Marty from their time in San Diego... They did ok together out there, unless 14-2 isn't good enough for you.

We might just have to agree to disagree, but I've watched these "rebuilding" stages for over a decade now, with no real progress made, a dumpster fire at offensive line and $20 plus million available to spend under the cap.

-Bill

I'm pretty sure that "stealth" meeting was bullcrap, but even if it did happen, if Cowher was interested in the job, why would he recommend his friend, Gailey for the job? Doesn't make alot of sense.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article30782.ece

Yes, I am very aware of what Shotty did in San Diego, while Nix was there, but for some reason Wilson didn't want to hire him. In fact, every team with a vacancy over the past 4 seasons has passed on him. That is also the reason his son turned down the request for an interview. He didn't want to take a job that his father wanted

It has been a frustrating 10 years, but Nix and Gailey have only been here for a year and 8 months. This team had virtually no talent thanks to Jauron. Its going to take more than 2 offseasons to right the ship.

[cordog]

To quote the great Willy Wonka... Wrong, sir... Wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792467




-Bill

Right back at ya......Wrong, sir....Wrong.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article23376.ece

The Buffalo Bills made contact with former Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher over the weekend and he told them he's not interested in interviewing at this time, according to a league source.

[YardRat]

To quote the great Willy Wonka... Wrong, sir... Wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4792467



There's also an interesting little tidbit at the bottom of that link I provided before, regarding Schottenheimer:



So, Ralph "wasn't comfortable" with Marty... But, his kid was alright to interview?

Sorry, something doesn't jive there... If they had hired Marty, there was a good chance Brian might have come along with him, as an OC and taken over in a few years or something, when Marty was ready to hang it up, or take a Front Office position or something.

On top of that, Nix was already familiar with Marty from their time in San Diego... They did ok together out there, unless 14-2 isn't good enough for you.

We might just have to agree to disagree, but I've watched these "rebuilding" stages for over a decade now, with no real progress made, a dumpster fire at offensive line and $20 plus million available to spend under the cap.

-Bill
This went around the boards at the time also, and Marty came out and said himself he wasn't interested in the job. Case closed.


This OL, right now, is sub-par. The Bills know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Yet they made a total of one attempt to make it better from FA.
You don't know that and are assuming/guessing.

I will agree, however, that not being able to address the o-line up to this point in the new regime is a failure,


OpIv37[/b]] We are sitting at more than $20 million below the salary cap.
We traded our best WR with no plan on how to replace him.
We couldn't keep Poz (not that I wanted to, but it's not about what I want) or sign Clabo.
Our coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league, if not the lowest.
It's early in the season still.
You are assuming there is no plan, or the plan isn't working as attended.
42mil is insane...Wouldn't is more like it, and justified. You are assuming the team was serious about Clabo.
Do you have a link to coaching salaries in the NFL, because if so that would be interesting to see?

[BLeonard]

Right back at ya......Wrong, sir....Wrong.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/article23376.ece

The Buffalo Bills made contact with former Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher over the weekend and he told them he's not interested in interviewing at this time, according to a league source.

Look at the date: November 27, 2009... Also, note the "not interested AT THIS TIME."

If he was so uninterested in the job, why did he AGAIN talk to the Bills in January... The link I provided was published on January 4th, 2010... Over a month after your link. People change their minds...

I also don't see anywhere in your link about Gailey that Cowher reccomended him... yes, Gailey has history with Cowher and yes, Cowher said it was a "good hire" (like he would say "God, what a stupid hire that was"). But nowhere in there did I see that Cowher actually reccomended him. But, regardless, that's all water under the bridge now.



It has been a frustrating 10 years, but Nix and Gailey have only been here for a year and 8 months. This team had virtually no talent thanks to Jauron. Its going to take more than 2 offseasons to right the ship.

A year and 8 months and NO progress on the offensive line WHATSOEVER? It was a weakness when they got here... They've stated as much, yet have done NOTHING, except play musical tackles and guards. Is Gailey such an offensive genius that he doesn't feel he needs an offensive line?

In another year or so, if this "new regime" doesn't produce results, people will probably start calling for another change and we'll get the "build through the draft" and "it takes three years" mantra all over again. if there isn't improvement this season, it might happen even sooner.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

The Bills were at the salary cap maxium, regularly between 1995-2001. Do you remember signing Speilman and Quinn Early, both at the time were prize free agents. They also traded for Bledsoe in 2002 who had a HUGE deal at the time. In 2003 they signed probably the biggest FA in Takeo Spikes and signed Sam Adams and Troy Vincent. How quickly we forget that Ralph was ready to pay Shannahan, Cowher, or Gruden whatever they wanted two years ago. Who exactly would you like to spend all this money on? Their drafts prior to Nix have absolutely sucked. Would you have liked to wasted money on Nate Clements and Willis McGahee? No thanks. Buddy has said many times that you build through the draft. Thats what they are doing. How many free agents can you name that the Steelers have signed in the past decade? They draft well and sign their own players. Once (Hopefully) when the draftees start developing they will spend money to keep their own players. I know its been a long ten years, but don't blame this current administration for past failures. And how can you ***** about the Bills not signing Clabo? They offered him a contract and he decided to stay with Falcons...how is that the Bills fault?

Ralph SAID he was ready to pay Shanahan, Cowher or Gruden. But none of those guys are here, are they? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, but we can't discount the possibility that money was a factor.

And I'm sick of this "The Steelers don't sign FA's" argument. We're terrible at drafting, we draft for BPA and not for need, and then we don't sign FA's. How the **** are we ever going to fill needs with that ridiculous "plan?" The Steelers don't need FA's because they draft well then spend money to keep the guys that they drafted. If they had a couple of more misses in there, then they'd have to bring in some FA's.

And it's not the past administration that's sitting on $20 million in cap space when the OL and the LB's are ****ing horrible. It's not the past administration that gave away our best WR for a 4th round pick as a salary dump. It's not the past administration that failed to sign Clabo and is hanging Fitz out to dry. It's not the past administration that drafted an RB early when we had two good RB's on the roster, only to watch the guy they drafted piss away his rookie season doing nothing. I could keep going but I think I've made my point.

Stop trying to blame all the problems of the Bills on the past. The current administration has made more than their share of mistakes.

[jimbohastle51]

And I agree with that but I would be willing to bet that Nix will be combing through the cuts when they are made. As far as FA's go....other than Clabo, there really wasn't much out there worth spending money on.

the oline is sub-par as a zoner previously stated but the prob is they are all SO young. i would imagine that is why you havnt seen the bills make a move yet. they are trying to give the inexpensive VERY young guys a chance. remember after the last pre season game a TON of cuts will happen and guys like brian waters and ect. that havnt caught on with a team will be alittle cheaper as well as guys that get cut that are trying to get on a roster. the bills WILL add a vet or 2 def a G and maybe a tackle as well but you wont see it till after cuts are made. with a shortened camp and no mini camps they are giving guys a chance cause they know that in SOME and VERY FEW cases is not completely there fault as far as blocking schemes and treating some injuries go.

[HAMMER]

We can keep giving Kelsay these insane extensions but Fred Jackson can't get 3 years 15 Mil while basically carrying our Offense ?

Which relative of Overdorf are some of you ?

I hear you brother, and I agree, but I don't think we're going to see any extension or new money.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's definitely interesting that all this comes out after the articles that ripped the Bills and said they are run by a bunch of penny pinchers.


Yeah! It's like the front office is reacting to all the negative criticism. Of course people complain about the Bills 365 days a year so I guess we can say every move is a reaction.

PTR

[X-Era]

You don't know that and are assuming/guessing.
Can only go by what's reported. Do you have reports to the contrary?

And even if they did try, they didn't get it done.

[X-Era]

Ralph SAID he was ready to pay Shanahan, Cowher or Gruden. But none of those guys are here, are they? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, but we can't discount the possibility that money was a factor.

And I'm sick of this "The Steelers don't sign FA's" argument. We're terrible at drafting, we draft for BPA and not for need, and then we don't sign FA's. How the **** are we ever going to fill needs with that ridiculous "plan?" The Steelers don't need FA's because they draft well then spend money to keep the guys that they drafted. If they had a couple of more misses in there, then they'd have to bring in some FA's.

And it's not the past administration that's sitting on $20 million in cap space when the OL and the LB's are ****ing horrible. It's not the past administration that gave away our best WR for a 4th round pick as a salary dump. It's not the past administration that failed to sign Clabo and is hanging Fitz out to dry. It's not the past administration that drafted an RB early when we had two good RB's on the roster, only to watch the guy they drafted piss away his rookie season doing nothing. I could keep going but I think I've made my point.

Stop trying to blame all the problems of the Bills on the past. The current administration has made more than their share of mistakes.
This current administration has a sub-par OL and has done nothing to make it better outside of Hairston who hasn't seen the field yet. Starting Urbik and Pears is not adequately building an NFL caliber line. It's not doing your job.
This administration continues to make moves to dump salary and not replace the loss to the overall talent at the same position or any other. Making the overall talent worse to save money is not doing your job. Unless Ralph has told them that winning is not the job, saving money is (which is possible)
This administration has a 4 and 12 team and chooses to not use it's 26+ mill in cap space to make it better. The job is to build a winner, if that move does not equal a winning team, it's not doing your job.Can their plan work? Sure. But, I don't expect it to. They continue to take the hoard-our-dollars-and-dream approach to building a team.

They "try" to be better. But ensure that they keep there spending at a lower level. The spending freeze must happen, the winning is optional. That is the way the organization is currently operating. It's a business, they operate with a model to make money, even at the expense of wins. It is very likely to perpetuate a losing team which is not doing your job. If your job was to make a winning team... And that is the biggest point, the job should be to win, and we have been failing.

[X-Era]

the oline is sub-par as a zoner previously stated but the prob is they are all SO young. i would imagine that is why you havnt seen the bills make a move yet. they are trying to give the inexpensive VERY young guys a chance. remember after the last pre season game a TON of cuts will happen and guys like brian waters and ect. that havnt caught on with a team will be alittle cheaper as well as guys that get cut that are trying to get on a roster. the bills WILL add a vet or 2 def a G and maybe a tackle as well but you wont see it till after cuts are made. with a shortened camp and no mini camps they are giving guys a chance cause they know that in SOME and VERY FEW cases is not completely there fault as far as blocking schemes and treating some injuries go.You could be right about adding players after cuts. I can only comment on right now. And right now the OL is sub-par and it appears this is who we will take into the season. And to me that is not doing your job.

In a sick way I would have been happier if they stuck by their comments about thinking more of their guys than we do. They abandoned that in recent weeks. Which means they are telling everyone they know they aren't good enough but also won't do something about it.

That's like the Plant Manager at GM saying, we know our cars will break down but were not going to do anything about it... But hey, keep buying them.

The product is the wins and losses from the team... Not the team itself. It's the quality of the product. It's not acceptable to produce a piece of crap and call it your product.

[jimbohastle51]

You could be right about adding players after cuts. I can only comment on right now. And right now the OL is sub-par and it appears this is who we will take into the season. And to me that is not doing your job.

In a sick way I would have been happier if they stuck by their comments about thinking more of their guys than we do. They abandoned that in recent weeks. Which means they are telling everyone they know they aren't good enough but also won't do something about it.

That's like the Plant Manager at GM saying, we know our cars will break down but were not going to do anything about it... But hey, keep buying them.

The product is the wins and losses from the team... Not the team itself. It's the quality of the product. It's not acceptable to produce a piece of crap and call it your product.

i agree with this. however it plays out i just hope the oline improves by week 1 of the regular season.

[ChristopherWalken]

Here is my dilemma with extension offers to Williams.

His production on the DL is no doubt the best the Bills have seen in recent years, but let us not forget that he was just extended in 2008 and he agreed to the money he now receives.

Williams is due $1.8 a year for the next 3 years. This makes him the 26th highest paid DT in the NFL (near current). Quite honestly, I don't think he is too far off that mark. Its the details of his contract that are probably more suspect - guaranteed money. His current contract probably has less guarantees than he would prefer.

Regardless, he isn't an RFA until 2013. So the Bills need not rush on the negotiations of this contract.

The biggest problem I have with renegotiating is there are two other DTs on the team that make more money than Williams does and they do so by contributing far less.

Dwan Edwards is the 18th highest paid DT in the league. And Spencer Johnson is the 16th highest paid DT in the league.

My dilemma with renegotiating Williams is that obviously he deserves more than Dwan Edwards and Spencer Johnson. But just becasue the Bills have over paid for these 2 guys does that make them obligated to push Williams contract to or over that same base salary? I'm not sure it does. With the addition of Marcell Dareus and a rengotiation of Kyle's contract, and if Edwards and Spencer Johnson remain Buffalo Bills this year, the Bills will have the highest paid DLine in the league. That's not just starters but back ups too.

I would easily say that Kyle Williams is a Top 20 DT. But paying him like a Top 20 DT compared to what he is making now is a difference of about 600k-1mil annually. That's not a huge difference in the grand scheme of all things salary cap but I'm sure that makes a giant differnce in Kyle's lively hood.

Does Kyle deserve a new contract? Probably something more with guaranteed money to include a better signing bonus than he received last time. The issue is how much is enough.

His agent is going to say that he is worth more than what Spencer Johnson is worth. In propelling his salary past Johnson would make Williams a top 15 DT. To keep things in perspective, that puts him in the general arena with Terrell Suggs. Suggs is making around $5million a year and when he signed with the Ravens in 2009 he netted a whopping $10 million dollar singing bonus. That would make Williams hit on the salary cap between 8-11 million a year depending on length of contract.

Call me crazy but I don't think the Bills are going to bite on this unless they plan on parting ways with Edwards and Johnson before the start of the regular season. And I don't think they can afford to lose that kind of depth.

It probably means very little but my prediction is that negotiations will stall and the Bills will push this off until next season.

[jamze132]

They're waiting until there's a cap floor in 2013 to extend Kelsay. Then they'll give him 8 mill a year through 2020 to make sure we never have to worry about being under the threshold.
I hear Kelsay is also going up on the Wall of Fame very soon.

[Bill Cody]

So, at the start of the week, all these articles come out, talking about how cheap the Bills have been... Now, they have signed a WR, a LB and are working on extensions for two guys already on the team...

Maybe it's me, but maybe all of those articles woke the Bills' FO up a bit...? I know the Williams deal had been discussed before, but, after the initial report, we didn't hear anything for a couple weeks, these articles come out and now, we're seeing moves made and deals being worked on??

Don't get me wrong, extensions for Williams and Johnson are good things, as is the new LB signing... But, the timing is a bit peculiar.

-Bill

No

[jimbohastle51]

kyle williams is the best hybrid DT/NT in the game today. he takes up 2 blockers (sometimes 3) stops the run and penetrates and sacks the qb as a NT in our version of the 3-4. as a DT when we ran a 4-3 and the 3-4 version of the 4-3 (which entails a LB basically coming right of the line and it pushes the front 3 over) he blows through his gap assignments and stops any ball carrier in his way. he is the surest tackler on the team and an higher motor and more strength at his position you cannot find in any other player. to be honest and fair... it is not stevie johnson in league circles who is the new face of this franchise. it is kyle williams. he is our franchise player and deserves to be paid as such.