Bills claim OT Sam Young off waivers

[Ickybaluky]

Recently cut by Cowboys. Big kid (6-8, 320#), raw. Played at Notre Dame. Book on him coming out was he was a little slow footed, but a good drive blocker. Big frame, pretty good motor.

[Forward_Lateral]

Championship!

[Shaggy826]

Bills have claimed OL Sam Young on waivers.
per @JasonLaCanfora

Anyone know anything about him?

[Dr. Lecter]

Thanks Icky.

Now go into the NFL forum and answer my question

[psubills62]

Yeesh. Probably the one guy I didn't want on the OL. Didn't like him in the draft, don't like him now. Who was let go to make room for him?

[Ed]

Is he a rookie?

[Goobylal]

Who gets released?

[Lone Stranger]

Another body for much needed depth. Who gets cut; probably a lb.

[psubills62]

Bills have claimed OL Sam Young on waivers.
per @JasonLaCanfora

Anyone know anything about him?
Out of ND, I believe this is his second year.

I didn't like him when he was drafted...seemed to be a tall kid who really lacked power and wasn't even that athletic. Not a fan.

[kingJofNYC]

This guy was one of the best tackle prospects/talents out of HS, guy never put it together.

[BillsWin]

Wasn't he a high rated prospect at one point?

[Uncle Jesse]

Pure RT. 6th round pick in 2010 by the Cowboys. Has slow footwork. Kinda "meh".

[mikemac2001]

ah man thought this was posted already....ya it was

[ddaryl]

started all 4 years at ND.. BIG man with a BIG wingspan.. A little slow footed with initial burst is knock against him. Has played both sides but looks to be a RT for Bills.

He is a mauler type...

[Ed]

Don't we still have one spot open on the practice squad?

[wmoz11]

Can't claim a guy and stash him on the PS. Has to be on the 53-man roster.

Wonder if Moats gets PUP'd or IR'd. Or if we just flat out waive someone.

[mikemac2001]

Can't claim a guy and stash him on the PS. Has to be on the 53-man roster.

Wonder if Moats gets PUP'd or IR'd. Or if we just flat out waive someone.


moats should get pup'd idk why this was not done to begin with

[X-Era]

He's a decent prospect but isn't very nimble on his feet.

I think we should remember that we have no depth so he's competing with other sub-par OL. This is a classic Nix OL move. We seem to have an endless parade of these types coming through here on the OL.

Here's my 2010 notes:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2919758#post2919758

And my comments from the 2010 BZ Draft Guide:

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<o:colormenu v:ext="edit" fillcolor="blue [1]" strokecolor="black [0]" shadowcolor="#ccc [4]"/> </o:shapedefaults><o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> "Sam Young is a mauler type right tackle prospect. Young has great height and a solid build. He isn't as muscular as one might like but he isn't weak. Sam benched 225, 29 times at the Combine. He has 34 and 1/2 inch arms and 10 and 1/8 inch hands. Sam has a nasty streak and can maul defenders by using his size, strength, and leverage. Young is a better run blocker than pass blocker due to his marginal quickness. He may not be able to slide and stay with some of the fast defensive ends that he may face in the NFL. If he plays right tackle this shouldn't be an issue. Sam has never missed a game due to injury. Sam Young is likely to be drafted in the 4th or 5th round."

[DraftBoy]

Wasn't he a high rated prospect at one point?

Yes until he had one of the worst senior years in recent memory.

[DraftBoy]

Slow, doesn't use good leverage, and has no tenacity to finish his blocks.

He has the size you want but like with a lot of other things, looks are very deceiving.

[cookie G]

Phew! That takes the pressure of next year's draft.

I was thinking we'd have to waste a high draft choice or something like that.

[Meathead]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246114

Pass blocking: Height, arm length and strong punch make it easy for him to engulf smaller ends. Keeps his feet moving after kick slide, taking a sharp angle back to protect the pocket. Stays with his man after initial contact to prevent secondary rush. Fair anchor, keeping his weight forward and hands working to maintain distance with defender. Cut blocks more quickly and efficiently than you would expect at his height, both on quick throws and when trying to protect the quarterback. A bit slow in his lateral movement, and may struggle to mirror against NFL speed on the edge. Must improve his awareness of late blitzers instead of focusing on inside double when it is unnecessary.

Run blocking: Good drive blocker despite his height, getting low and pushing back the line. Strong enough to turn his man inside or outside. Leans forward too far on the move, which causes him to lose his balance and struggle to do more than get a hand on his target - but most times that's all he needs to do at his size against linebackers and safeties.

Pulling/trapping: Lacks the footwork to pull or trap effectively. Inconsistent at sustaining on the second level, but usually gets a hand on a linebacker and safety when on the move. Has a tough time adjusting to fast-closing defenders.

[Dr. Lecter]

Moats can't be PUP'd.

Once a player practices in camp,he is not eligible.

[Beebe's Kid]

Yeesh. Probably the one guy I didn't want on the OL. Didn't like him in the draft, don't like him now. Who was let go to make room for him?

OF COURSE!!!!

Classic. It is nothing personal, but I have been saying this was going to be the case...if we signed nobody, that would be a problem. If we sign anybody, they are the wrong guy before they even get here.

[mikemac2001]

Moats can't be PUP'd.

Once a player practices in camp,he is not eligible.


ah i figured there was a rule but wasnt sure

thanks for the update

[wmoz11]

OF COURSE!!!!

Classic. It is nothing personal, but I have been saying this was going to be the case...if we signed nobody, that would be a problem. If we sign anybody, they are the wrong guy before they even get here.

I knew this would happen. People ***** as every piece of **** project goes through unclaimed by us or unsigned, but the moment we grab someone it's sarcastic "championship" and ridiculous comments.

No credit for actually making a move. People act like we were letting Willie Roaf in his prime go unclaimed.

[X-Era]

OF COURSE!!!!

Classic. It is nothing personal, but I have been saying this was going to be the case...if we signed nobody, that would be a problem. If we sign anybody, they are the wrong guy before they even get here.I don't agree. It's a matter of what level of talent they are. Young has done zero in the NFL. We have two of those guys starting on the right side now... What's the point in adding more? They should be adding vet depth. The type of depth where we can still play solid if we have injury or the current starter regresses. Young is neither of those.

Money. Spend the money for a legit backup or possible starter... The Ravens have the right idea.

[X-Era]

Merged for your viewing pleasure.

[Uncle Jesse]

WR Ruvell Martin has been released to make room.

[Oaf]

Sounds like a Wang.

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't agree. It's a matter of what level of talent they are. Young has done zero in the NFL. We have two of those guys starting on the right side now... What's the point in adding more? They should be adding vet depth. The type of depth where we can still play solid if we have injury or the current starter regresses. Young is neither of those.

Money. Spend the money for AN INJURED backup or starter... The Ravens have the right idea.

Fixed. There are no studs just siting around unless they have an issue like injury. I'm guessing signing Merriman was a "classic" Nix move too?

PTR

[X-Era]

Fixed. There are no studs just siting around unless they have an issue like injury. I'm guessing signing Merriman was a "classic" Nix move too?

PTRThe guys the Ravens signed were injured? Brain Waters is injured? Leonard Davis is injured? Flozell Adams is injured?

[Jan Reimers]

Slow, doesn't use good leverage, and has no tenacity to finish his blocks.
Perfect for us. A friggin' bum.

[lightningbolt444]

I don't agree. It's a matter of what level of talent they are. Young has done zero in the NFL. We have two of those guys starting on the right side now... What's the point in adding more? They should be adding vet depth. The type of depth where we can still play solid if we have injury or the current starter regresses. Young is neither of those.

Money. Spend the money for a legit backup or possible starter... The Ravens have the right idea.

We dont have the luxury that the ravens do. They legit have a shot by adding these vets. What would it do for us? Make us a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team. To me that is counter productive considering these vets are going to be gone once the team is rebuilt. Let the young guys play this season see what we have and see if we have a diamond in the rough. Build the line through the draft next year and THEN fill in with vets once they are the only piece missing.

Problem is everyone on this board wants us to sign people like the pats,jets, ravens etc. We are not in the same spot as them and if anything it may hurt the team in the long run.

[lightningbolt444]

The guys the Ravens signed were injured? Brain Waters is injured? Leonard Davis is injured? Flozell Adams is injured?

What will they do for us in two years? Nothing this team is not built to win now and everyone needs to get it out of their head. This isnt madden where you can sign every FA out there and keep doing it every year.

Not one of those players could help us once this team is rebuilt.

[ServoBillieves]

He's white... Fits Chan's line!

[jamze132]

Sounds like he'll fit right in with our starters.

[X-Era]

We dont have the luxury that the ravens do. They legit have a shot by adding these vets. What would it do for us? Make us a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team. To me that is counter productive considering these vets are going to be gone once the team is rebuilt. Let the young guys play this season see what we have and see if we have a diamond in the rough. Build the line through the draft next year and THEN fill in with vets once they are the only piece missing.

Problem is everyone on this board wants us to sign people like the pats,jets, ravens etc. We are not in the same spot as them and if anything it may hurt the team in the long run.A vet who can start can teach them, and push them to be better. Who does Pears have to worry about right now? And if we suffer an injury, we have no one.

It is never smart to start a green player because you have no other choice. They should earn it and be constantly pushed by guys ready to steal there spot.

[trapezeus]

i'd like to get a well done line man. a lineman tar tar. i'm tired of these raw players. pick up an aging vetm, a has been, over a never has been.

[X-Era]

What will they do for us in two years? Nothing this team is not built to win now and everyone needs to get it out of their head. This isnt madden where you can sign every FA out there and keep doing it every year.

Not one of those players could help us once this team is rebuilt.This team will not be rebuilt in two years. And no one is saying we need to bench the guys we have starting right now. But you had better have a legit option if they falter or get injured.

Starting Urbik/Pears should not be the only option with no backup plan. The Pats and Ravens understand the importance of quality starters and quality depth on the OL. The Bills do not.

[B-DON]

The guys the Ravens signed were injured? Brain Waters is injured? Leonard Davis is injured? Flozell Adams is injured?

Cmon now X. U really think Waters would sign with us over the pats. I love when guys like you get pissed with out rationally looking at the situation.

[X-Era]

Cmon now X. U really think Waters would sign with us over the pats. I love when guys like you get pissed with out rationally looking at the situation.Maybe not. And what about the other guys? I mean they would rather be out of work?

Colin Brown is not a rational attempt at a quality backup... and really neither Urbik nor Pears is a rational attempt at a quality starter.

And who's pissed? I'm not pissed at all. I just think it's not adequate.

[trapezeus]

an additional 2 years on the rebuild? Are you crazy?

I give them 3 years. this last draft better have gotten us all the defensemen we need. if we need to spend picks on LB's, CBs, and DL next year, we will still have a **** offense. This team can suck all it wants this year, but it needs to stay competitive and then get the big picks for offense next year and then move into the wildcard hopeful position.

if they aren't even in the picture in November next year, nix and co got this dreadfully wrong again.

[Meathead]

go through any nfl roster and you will find two to three udfas starting, often for years and sometimes probowlers

the nfl is absolutely chock full of linemen that dont get drafted, bounce around early, and end up very solid starters

is this guy one of them? i have no idea. but chuddy waited three days to claim a tackle, telling me that he was one of the ones they were watching for

of course i still expect them to invest a high pick or two in the line next season, but these are exactly the moves you have to make to give yourself a good chance to find the gems you need to fill out a good starting oline

[Bill Cody]

Let's play hangman. Three letter word. I'll give you the first 2 letters.

B-U-_

[X-Era]

go through any nfl roster and you will find two to three udfas starting, often for years and sometimes probowlers

the nfl is absolutely chock full of linemen that dont get drafted, bounce around early, and end up very solid starters

is this guy one of them? i have no idea. but chuddy waited three days to claim a tackle, telling me that he was one of the ones they were watching for

of course i still expect them to invest a high pick or two in the line next season, but these are exactly the moves you have to make to give yourself a good chance to find the gems you need to fill out a good starting olineIt's possible that the guy becomes decent. I concede that. But, we haven't had much luck recently and have had a parade of guys like this. I'm fine with it if we also spend some money for insurance.

[YardRat]

Glad we picked up an o-lineman. Unfortunately he's from Notre Dame, so chances of him not sucking are pretty low.

[lightningbolt444]

It's possible that the guy becomes decent. I concede that. But, we haven't had much luck recently and have had a parade of guys like this. I'm fine with it if we also spend some money for insurance.


So we havent had luck doing anything. Remember Dockery he was supposed to be a great signing and we gave him a ton of money he is now bouncing around and couldnt stick with us. Hagartner was supposed to be solid vet signing that lasted until a few days ago. We have missed on EVERYTHING so we cant use that we have not had much luck. What about the development of Stevie or the improvement the d has shown so far. All we can ask form this team is to improve every year during the rebuild. NO ONE knows how they will do.

I think the issue here is everyone is calling for us to sign anyone. We have seen so many names thrown around that will "make this team better" but they are really scrubs. Once we sign someone no one is happy still. Best signing here probably not. But there was not much on the market either.

Bills fans have no patience and I get it we have been waiting years for a competitive team but lets still think from a realistic point of view and not forget the overall talent level on this team. One vet oline signing wll not help this team. They need to continue the course even though everyone will blast them while doing it.

I cant wait ( heres to hoping) until 3 years from now all the threads that said I knew nix was doing the right thing, I called this pickup in 2011 would be the future for the Bills.

[X-Era]

So we havent had luck doing anything. Remember Dockery he was supposed to be a great signing and we gave him a ton of money he is now bouncing around and couldnt stick with us. Hagartner was supposed to be solid vet signing that lasted until a few days ago. We have missed on EVERYTHING so we cant use that we have not had much luck. What about the development of Stevie or the improvement the d has shown so far. All we can ask form this team is to improve every year during the rebuild. NO ONE knows how they will do.

I think the issue here is everyone is calling for us to sign anyone. We have seen so many names thrown around that will "make this team better" but they are really scrubs. Once we sign someone no one is happy still. Best signing here probably not. But there was not much on the market either.

Bills fans have no patience and I get it we have been waiting years for a competitive team but lets still think from a realistic point of view and not forget the overall talent level on this team. One vet oline signing wll not help this team. They need to continue the course even though everyone will blast them while doing it.

I cant wait ( heres to hoping) until 3 years from now all the threads that said I knew nix was doing the right thing, I called this pickup in 2011 would be the future for the Bills.

Leonard Davis is better than Colin Brown, that isn't a tough one.

Flozell Adams is better than Sam Young, also not tough.

If you feel were fine on the OL, so be it. I hope you are right. But I am very worried and I think mid-season we may be real unhappy how it ends up. I hope I am wrong, trust me.

As far as the rest of that and what Bills fans think, I only know what I think.

[The Jokeman]

Recently cut by Cowboys. Big kid (6-8, 320#), raw. Played at Notre Dame. Book on him coming out was he was a little slow footed, but a good drive blocker. Big frame, pretty good motor.
Is the Mike Jasper experiment RT already over?

[Meathead]

a typical good nfl starting oline usually consists of one first rounder, one or two middle/late rounders, and two to three udfas

oline is the easiest (or least hard) position to get starters from low level picks/udfas. the bills have been wisely making pickups from other teams castoffs for two seasons now and have already found two starters that way in urbik & pears and a backup in brown. they missed on a couple others, wrotto and the other guy i cant remember right now, but this is the process you have to go thru to find the good ones from the bad ones

im confident this group will easily outperform fans expectations - which isnt saying much since most fans think they suck, but they will be an adequate average nfl line, which alone is much better than we had even last season. again, they will need to bolster this group with a high pick or two next year, but for now this is a reasonably functional group that they got mostly for free (in relation to spending picks) and at a low cost which sets them up to reward other positions of production and pay next seasons high draft pick. frankly, i think buddy has been smart about all this

[mysticsoto]

What's clear about this move is that this FO does not want older veterans on the team. They want young guys who'll stick around for awhile. Sam may not be creme of the crop, but they will give him a chance to develop.

Do I agree with this philosophy? Can't say that I do. There were better candidates out there and you take a better candidate if you have a choice - regardless of the age. You worry about long term by drafting good young guys. You worry about filling wide open holes in FA. They didn't do that, and as a result, we will still be on the bottom of the NFL roster.

It's why they got rid of Evans...and quite frankly, the writing is on the wall that once his contract is up (or they get a trade offer - possibly even a crappy one) FJ will also be gone. :(

[Tatonka]

What will they do for us in two years? Nothing this team is not built to win now and everyone needs to get it out of their head. This isnt madden where you can sign every FA out there and keep doing it every year.

Not one of those players could help us once this team is rebuilt.

just an fyi.. all the current "young" players are also going to be replaced every year.. because they weren't really put in a position to succeed.. they are surrounded by more young players and they will all struggle.. then when the new coach comes in and takes over 2 years down the road, we will be back and square one anyway.. ala the past 10 years..

either way.. it sucks..

[TigerJ]

Let's play hangman. Three letter word. I'll give you the first 2 letters.

B-U-_

He's a "bus?" "bug?" "bud?" "bun?" "but?" "buy?"

[B-DON]

Leonard Davis is better than Colin Brown, that isn't a tough one.

Flozell Adams is better than Sam Young, also not tough.

If you feel were fine on the OL, so be it. I hope you are right. But I am very worried and I think mid-season we may be real unhappy how it ends up. I hope I am wrong, trust me.

As far as the rest of that and what Bills fans think, I only know what I think.
No one wants flozell either or he would be signed by now. Also, Lots of players chose not to play rather than get their ass kicked every weekend by playing for the bills. Hell Randy moss just semi retired when he had several reported offers. I love how you act like you personally know what's going on in these players head. Maybe nix did call them and they simply turned him down to wait for an injury on a better team. Just because we didn't hear about trying to sign someone doesn't mean we didn't have interest. Feelings aren't always mutual

[Philagape]

OF COURSE!!!!

Classic. It is nothing personal, but I have been saying this was going to be the case...if we signed nobody, that would be a problem. If we sign anybody, they are the wrong guy before they even get here.

Of course. This is the Bills we're talking about. Most of the time it IS the wrong guy.

[Jan Reimers]

What's clear about this move is that this FO does not want older veterans on the team. They want young guys who'll stick around for awhile. Sam may not be creme of the crop, but they will give him a chance to develop.

Do I agree with this philosophy? Can't say that I do. There were better candidates out there and you take a better candidate if you have a choice - regardless of the age. You worry about long term by drafting good young guys. You worry about filling wide open holes in FA. They didn't do that, and as a result, we will still be on the bottom of the NFL roster.

It's why they got rid of Evans...and quite frankly, the writing is on the wall that once his contract is up (or they get a trade offer - possibly even a crappy one) FJ will also be gone. :(
We love guys like Young who will play for the league minimum. That's why we get rid of older veterans like Evans and Handgartner, and refuse to sign guys like McKinnie, Davis, Adams, Waters, Gerode et. al. You have to pay those guys.

There is a reason why we're $20M under the cap, and it's not that we want to develop crap like Young and C. Brown.

[Ickybaluky]

The other two teams that put a claim in for Young were Miami and the Jets, but Buffalo had waiver priority. At least you took him away from a division opponent.

Miami, the Jets and Buffalo are all teams that feature more of a drive-blocking run game (as opposed to zone blocking), so that should tell you what kind of scheme he fits.

[DesertFox24]

This team will not be rebuilt in two years. And no one is saying we need to bench the guys we have starting right now. But you had better have a legit option if they falter or get injured.

Starting Urbik/Pears should not be the only option with no backup plan. The Pats and Ravens understand the importance of quality starters and quality depth on the OL. The Bills do not.

I do not agree with you here. I believe the bills know and Buddy said the same thing a few weeks back when he said you can not fix everything in one offseason. The 2010 and 2011 drafts was about getting bigger and stronger on defense. This had to be done to even give us a chance in the future. Because jauron kept drafting cover 2 guys that kept getting blown off the line of scrimmage on running downs.

That said I expect the bills to draft an early tackle and another interior OL in the first 4 rounds.

That is unless the franchise QB is available. However, I think they intend to build the OL this draft and offseason and in the 2013 draft try to get a QB and some more skill positions and depth.

[better days]

I do not agree with you here. I believe the bills know and Buddy said the same thing a few weeks back when he said you can not fix everything in one offseason. The 2010 and 2011 drafts was about getting bigger and stronger on defense. This had to be done to even give us a chance in the future. Because jauron kept drafting cover 2 guys that kept getting blown off the line of scrimmage on running downs.

That said I expect the bills to draft an early tackle and another interior OL in the first 4 rounds.

That is unless the franchise QB is available. However, I think they intend to build the OL this draft and offseason and in the 2013 draft try to get a QB and some more skill positions and depth.

Unless the Bills decide Fitz is the long term answer, they have to draft a QB in the next draft.

[psubills62]

Unless the Bills decide Fitz is the long term answer, they have to draft a QB in the next draft.
I don't think that's a necessity. Look at Baltimore - how long did it take them to get their "franchise QB"? A decade? They started by building the team from the trenches out, and had a team ready to put a young QB in a position to succeed. I have no problem doing that exact same thing and while building a team, wait for a QB you really like to come along instead of desperately grabbing one ASAP.

[Bill Cody]

He's a "bus?" "bug?" "bud?" "bun?" "but?" "buy?"

All excellent guesses but no.....

[The Jokeman]

I don't think that's a necessity. Look at Baltimore - how long did it take them to get their "franchise QB"? A decade? They started by building the team from the trenches out, and had a team ready to put a young QB in a position to succeed. I have no problem doing that exact same thing and while building a team, wait for a QB you really like to come along instead of desperately grabbing one ASAP.
Same thing with the Jets.

[acehole]

He doesn't really fit our phallic system here...

[better days]

I don't think that's a necessity. Look at Baltimore - how long did it take them to get their "franchise QB"? A decade? They started by building the team from the trenches out, and had a team ready to put a young QB in a position to succeed. I have no problem doing that exact same thing and while building a team, wait for a QB you really like to come along instead of desperately grabbing one ASAP.

Here is why, the better the team, the lower the draft pick. The Ravens were lucky they had a down year & had a decent pick the year they took Flaco. HE FELL IN THEIR LAPS...............PURE LUCK. Do you really want to wait another decade for the Bills to find a QB? I DON'T.

[psubills62]

Here is why, the better the team, the lower the draft pick. The Ravens were lucky they had a down year & had a decent pick the year they took Flaco. HE FELL IN THEIR LAPS...............PURE LUCK. Do you really want to wait another decade for the Bills to find a QB? I DON'T.
It was pure luck that Aaron Rodgers went to the Packers? Or that Josh Freeman went to the Bucs?

There are QB's who have question marks but end up getting drafted in the mid first round. Or if a team feels they're on the brink, they can trade up and draft a guy early (a la Jets). And while that QB may not be perfect, if the team has been built properly, they'll be in a fine position to win with him under center.

[The Jokeman]

Here is why, the better the team, the lower the draft pick. The Ravens were lucky they had a down year & had a decent pick the year they took Flaco. HE FELL IN THEIR LAPS...............PURE LUCK. Do you really want to wait another decade for the Bills to find a QB? I DON'T.
It might have been "luck" yet the Ravens understand what it means to build a team and get that a QB should be the last part not the first part. That's why I'm hoping the Bills aren't in position to take Andrew Luck next year instead hope we're in position to take Matt Kalil.

[Bill Cody]

It was pure luck that Aaron Rodgers went to the Packers? Or that Josh Freeman went to the Bucs?

There are QB's who have question marks but end up getting drafted in the mid first round. Or if a team feels they're on the brink, they can trade up and draft a guy early (a la Jets). And while that QB may not be perfect, if the team has been built properly, they'll be in a fine position to win with him under center.

Aaron Rodgers slid in the draft. There are 24 teams that would like a mulligan on that one. And Freeman has far exceeded expectations. You make it sound like the Ravens had some scientific approach to getting their QB. They didn't. Don't forget they traded up to draft Kyle Boller in 2003, that was a whiff. QB's are in high demand but often they bust. But if you have a chance to grab a guy you think is a franchise player you grab him, you don't wait.

[better days]

Aaron Rodgers slid in the draft. There are 24 teams that would like a mulligan on that one. And Freeman has far exceeded expectations. You make it sound like the Ravens had some scientific approach to getting their QB. They didn't. Don't forget they traded up to draft Kyle Boller in 2003, that was a whiff. QB's are in high demand but often they bust. But if you have a chance to grab a guy you think is a franchise player you grab him, you don't wait.

The Bucs actually knew what they were getting in Freeman because Raheem Morris the Bucs HC was DC of Kansas State in 2006 & knew Freeman. He sold the Glazers on drafting him.

[better days]

It might have been "luck" yet the Ravens understand what it means to build a team and get that a QB should be the last part not the first part. That's why I'm hoping the Bills aren't in position to take Andrew Luck next year instead hope we're in position to take Matt Kalil.

The Ravens had a VERY GOOD team, but FLOUNDERED for years because they did not have a decent QB. The same could be said for the Bucs. The Ravens & Bucs could both have won a few Super Bowls if they had a good QB on the team when they had everything else.

[Bill Cody]

The Bucs actually knew what they were getting in Freeman because Raheem Morris the Bucs HC was DC of Kansas State in 2006 & knew Freeman. He sold the Glazers on drafting him.

Kudos to the Bucs. But if the rest of the league could see what he would become he wouldn't have lasted until pick 17. And Joe Flacco played at Delaware, div 1AA, you can't know how a guy will make the big jump from 1AA to the pro's. Flacco and Freeman were shrewd moves but for every one of those there's a Brady Quinn and a JP Losman.

[Bill Cody]

It might have been "luck" yet the Ravens understand what it means to build a team and get that a QB should be the last part not the first part. That's why I'm hoping the Bills aren't in position to take Andrew Luck next year instead hope we're in position to take Matt Kalil.

ha ha if we're in a position to draft Luck the card will get turned in before we go on the clock.

[better days]

Kudos to the Bucs. But if the rest of the league could see what he would become he wouldn't have lasted until pick 17. And Joe Flacco played at Delaware, div 1AA, you can't know how a guy will make the big jump from 1AA to the pro's. Flacco and Freeman were shrewd moves but for every one of those there's a Brady Quinn and a JP Losman.

Quinn, Losman are probably more like 10 to 1 than Flacco & Freeman.

[Bill Cody]

Quinn, Losman are probably more like 10 to 1 than Flacco & Freeman.

You're right there are more busts than hits. The longer you wait to draft a player the higher the odds the player will bust. Not particular to QB's but since QB is the most important position on the team and if you don't have a good one you CANNOT WIN in today's league it only makes sense to maximize your chances. That doesn't mean you take a guy just to take him but if you have THE guy on the board turn in the card.

[psubills62]

Aaron Rodgers slid in the draft. There are 24 teams that would like a mulligan on that one. And Freeman has far exceeded expectations. You make it sound like the Ravens had some scientific approach to getting their QB. They didn't. Don't forget they traded up to draft Kyle Boller in 2003, that was a whiff. QB's are in high demand but often they bust. But if you have a chance to grab a guy you think is a franchise player you grab him, you don't wait.
Yes, Rodgers slid in the draft - what's your point? Because that's sort of one of the points I'm trying to make - good players fall (Dez Bryant is another example).

My point was that if you build a team the right way, then you can afford to grab a QB at the right time, when he's an appropriate value, and maybe one that isn't necessarily a top-level QB (like Luck, Bradford, etc.). Roethlisberger is another example of a guy who slid out of the top 5.

The key is to set a QB up to succeed. Is it guaranteed that any of them will do well? No, but if you build a dominant defense and dominant OL, you have the convenience of selecting a QB when the chance comes along. It's not a matter of HAVING to grab a quarterback THIS DRAFT. It's building a team and getting the right QB.

[psubills62]

You're right there are more busts than hits. The longer you wait to draft a player the higher the odds the player will bust. Not particular to QB's but since QB is the most important position on the team and if you don't have a good one you CANNOT WIN in today's league it only makes sense to maximize your chances. That doesn't mean you take a guy just to take him but if you have THE guy on the board turn in the card.
That's also a reason you need to have good scouting and trust the scouting reports.

[Bill Cody]

Yes, Rodgers slid in the draft - what's your point? Because that's sort of one of the points I'm trying to make - good players fall (Dez Bryant is another example).



Green Bay was in a very different situation than we're in- they had Favre when they took Rodgers, it was a luxury pick for the future. And noting that players at other positions often fall is irrelevant to QB, if you're going to win a race you don't hang around to order the motor. We have a bottom third guy that we can't win with. It boggles my mind that you think we can just hope a league MVP candidate like Rodgers just slides into our laps, you can't plan that way. Rothlisberger was from a small school, he was the 3rd QB taken that year and he was STILL a top ten pick.

I couldn't disagree more. The Bills fan base is hanging on by it's fingernails. A franchise QB is the life ring. If we are picking when one is available next year you can bet the house we'll take him as we should.

[Bill Cody]

That's also a reason you need to have good scouting and trust the scouting reports.

Without a doubt

[better days]

Yes, Rodgers slid in the draft - what's your point? Because that's sort of one of the points I'm trying to make - good players fall (Dez Bryant is another example).

My point was that if you build a team the right way, then you can afford to grab a QB at the right time, when he's an appropriate value, and maybe one that isn't necessarily a top-level QB (like Luck, Bradford, etc.). Roethlisberger is another example of a guy who slid out of the top 5.

The key is to set a QB up to succeed. Is it guaranteed that any of them will do well? No, but if you build a dominant defense and dominant OL, you have the convenience of selecting a QB when the chance comes along. It's not a matter of HAVING to grab a quarterback THIS DRAFT. It's building a team and getting the right QB.

The point you don't get is GOOD QB's are FEW & FAR BETWEEN. If one is there you better grab him when you can.

Like I said BOTH the Ravens & the Bucs had very good teams & won the Super Bowl with a mediocre QB. BUT if either of those two teams had a Brady or Manning or even a Flaco, they would have won MULTIPLE Super Bowls.

[ServoBillieves]

The point you don't get is GOOD QB's are FEW & FAR BETWEEN. If one is there you better grab him when you can.

Like I said BOTH the Ravens & the Bucs had very good teams & won the Super Bowl with a mediocre QB. BUT if either of those two teams had a Brady or Manning or even a Flaco, they would have won MULTIPLE Super Bowls.

Flacco*

QB is important, but defense is 1/3rd of the game too. If you have a great QB against an even better defense, that QB is probably boned. If it's Manning? Why has he only won 1 SB? Sure he makes it to the playoffs almost every year, but he isn't the head of the defense, doesn't coach, doesn't coordinate the offense, nor the defense, doesn't motivate his line, doesn't create schemes.

I'm so sick of this whole "If we had a good QB we'd be great!" Bull****. Who is going to block for that QB? Who is he handing the ball off to? Who is he throwing to against what defensive coordinator in the league? Gameplan, 22 good starters is the key. Some positions are more important than others, sure, but you still need that solid line, capable receivers, RB, cover corners, safeties, linebackers, D-Line...

Ugh...

[better days]

Flacco*

QB is important, but defense is 1/3rd of the game too. If you have a great QB against an even better defense, that QB is probably boned. If it's Manning? Why has he only won 1 SB? Sure he makes it to the playoffs almost every year, but he isn't the head of the defense, doesn't coach, doesn't coordinate the offense, nor the defense, doesn't motivate his line, doesn't create schemes.

I'm so sick of this whole "If we had a good QB we'd be great!" Bull****. Who is going to block for that QB? Who is he handing the ball off to? Who is he throwing to against what defensive coordinator in the league? Gameplan, 22 good starters is the key. Some positions are more important than others, sure, but you still need that solid line, capable receivers, RB, cover corners, safeties, linebackers, D-Line...

Ugh...

EVERY other position is EASIER to Fill than QB. The problem the Colts have had is they PAY Manning so much they can't afford to pay anyone else.

You get a good QB, & it is much easier to build around him than it is to add a QB to a good team. The Bills already have a good start on the rebuild. They need the QB NOW. Before everyone gets OLD like Ray Lewis did in Baltimore.

[X-Era]

No one wants flozell either or he would be signed by now. Also, Lots of players chose not to play rather than get their ass kicked every weekend by playing for the bills. Hell Randy moss just semi retired when he had several reported offers. I love how you act like you personally know what's going on in these players head. Maybe nix did call them and they simply turned him down to wait for an injury on a better team. Just because we didn't hear about trying to sign someone doesn't mean we didn't have interest. Feelings aren't always mutual
I love the logic. The players won't come to the Bills, and if they are out there and we haven't gotten them, no one must want them.

Using that circular argument, you're right we have no choice but to sign and start any sub-par player.

And I have no idea what goes on in players heads. Some may have no interest in playing for us, some do, because we sign players almost every year.

I'm left with this. The right side of the line is sub-par. We have money and have not spent it to make it better. And there were and IMO are players who are better than what we have at the backup positions at least. I'm not angry with us bringing in Sam Young but I also don't feel it's adequate in addressing the situation. A situation that IMO could cost us wins.

[psubills62]

The point you don't get is GOOD QB's are FEW & FAR BETWEEN. If one is there you better grab him when you can.

Like I said BOTH the Ravens & the Bucs had very good teams & won the Super Bowl with a mediocre QB. BUT if either of those two teams had a Brady or Manning or even a Flaco, they would have won MULTIPLE Super Bowls.
Elite QB's are few and far between. Good QB's aren't as rare as people think they are (especially in the first round overall).

Here's what I'm saying: finding a QB to carry the team on his shoulders is VERY, VERY difficult. However, finding a QB to lead an already great team outside of the QB position is NOT that difficult.

IMO, it's not absolutely necessary that we find a QB immediately; it would be really nice, but not absolutely necessary. I think Fitz is a good enough veteran, and honestly I'd love to see him behind a capable OL. I don't think Fitz is the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl, but I think we could certainly become playoff contenders with a good enough team around him.

[psubills62]

Reportedly, the Dolphins and Jets both put in waiver claims on Sam Young (getting back to the OP). Not sure what any of those teams see in him, but it makes me feel a tiny bit better that they wanted him.

[better days]

Elite QB's are few and far between. Good QB's aren't as rare as people think they are (especially in the first round overall).

Here's what I'm saying: finding a QB to carry the team on his shoulders is VERY, VERY difficult. However, finding a QB to lead an already great team outside of the QB position is NOT that difficult.

IMO, it's not absolutely necessary that we find a QB immediately; it would be really nice, but not absolutely necessary. I think Fitz is a good enough veteran, and honestly I'd love to see him behind a capable OL. I don't think Fitz is the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl, but I think we could certainly become playoff contenders with a good enough team around him.

If finding a QB to lead an already great team is NOT that difficult, EXPLAIN why both the Ravens & Bucs could not find one to lead either team for more than ONE YEAR. BOTH those teams were ELITE FOR YEARS.

[psubills62]

If finding a QB to lead an already great team is NOT that difficult, EXPLAIN why both the Ravens & Bucs could not find one to lead either team for more than ONE YEAR. BOTH those teams were ELITE FOR YEARS.
Didn't you just tell me how they each won the Super Bowl with average at best QB's? I personally don't think Flacco is an elite QB at all (thus far, anyway). But he's good enough to help win some games they wouldn't have with just an average QB.

[kingJofNYC]

I want this team to suck absolute balls this year, but they won't, they'll win more game than last year, end up with a lower draft pick, and may miss out on a franchise QB.

Not sure why people are worried about spending money when we aren't competitive. The retort will be, well we aren't competitive because we don't spend, when the real answer is that we have no QB threat.

You need top flight talent at the QB position to have a shot at winning this thing. Look at the Colts, they'll go from perennial playoff team and SB contender, to the worst team in the game. They'll probably end up with Luck if Manning misses the year.

[Mad Bomber]

He's a "bus?" "bug?" "bud?" "bun?" "but?" "buy?"
BUM?

[YardRat]

Of course elite QB's are hard to find...that's why when you go back through the history of any NFL team, you can only come up with a couple, maybe three at the most.

Buffalo with Kemp/Kelly isn't the exception...it's the rule.

[better days]

Didn't you just tell me how they each won the Super Bowl with average at best QB's? I personally don't think Flacco is an elite QB at all (thus far, anyway). But he's good enough to help win some games they wouldn't have with just an average QB.

Yes they both won ONE Super Bowl with average QBs. BUT they BOTH could have won MANY MORE with a GOOD FRANCHISE QB.

Both teams were ELITE for MANY years but aside from that one magical year could not win again. Because of NO QB ALL of that Talent on BOTH teams was WASTED.

And you still have not EXPLAINED why they could not find a decent QB after the Ravens got rid of Dilfer or the Bucs Johnson. If it is not hard to do EXPLAIN why they didn't do it.

[psubills62]

Yes they both won ONE Super Bowl with average QBs. BUT they BOTH could have won MANY MORE with a GOOD FRANCHISE QB.

Both teams were ELITE for MANY years but aside from that one magical year could not win again. Because of NO QB ALL of that Talent on BOTH teams was WASTED.

And you still have not EXPLAINED why they could not find a decent QB after the Ravens got rid of Dilfer or the Bucs Johnson. If it is not hard to do EXPLAIN why they didn't do it.
Easy on the caps. First of all, yes they could have won many more. How many Super Bowls has Peyton Manning won? He's an elite QB. Having an elite QB guarantees nothing. And choosing a QB early guarantees nothing.

The talent was not wasted. They've been contending for a Super Bowl each year for years. I would not say that's wasted. And as for your DEMAND that I EXPLAIN...it seems to me the Ravens have managed to find QB's that kept them competitive. The Bucs, well, they haven't been built the right way for a little while now.

So let me get this straight - are you arguing that teams should languish in last as much as possible until they get a top QB early? What the hell is your problem with building a good team filled with talent in the trenches and then taking a QB? If you take a QB simply because you think you need one, that's when you end up with the Jamarcus Russell's and Alex Smith's. If a good QB comes along, there's no problem with drafting one. There's no way I think we should draft one just because, though. Focus on the trenches and if a QB you like drops to you, take him.

[better days]

Easy on the caps. First of all, yes they could have won many more. How many Super Bowls has Peyton Manning won? He's an elite QB. Having an elite QB guarantees nothing. And choosing a QB early guarantees nothing.

The talent was not wasted. They've been contending for a Super Bowl each year for years. I would not say that's wasted. And as for your DEMAND that I EXPLAIN...it seems to me the Ravens have managed to find QB's that kept them competitive. The Bucs, well, they haven't been built the right way for a little while now.

So let me get this straight - are you arguing that teams should languish in last as much as possible until they get a top QB early? What the hell is your problem with building a good team filled with talent in the trenches and then taking a QB? If you take a QB simply because you think you need one, that's when you end up with the Jamarcus Russell's and Alex Smith's. If a good QB comes along, there's no problem with drafting one. There's no way I think we should draft one just because, though. Focus on the trenches and if a QB you like drops to you, take him.

The Ravens did nothing aside from that one Super Bowl. The Bucs have been bad in the recent past, but from the time Warren Sapp was drafted until he left for Oakland the Bucs had an elite team but could do nothing because of lack of a good QB.

I already addressed the Colts & Manning. The Colts have paid him so much there was no money left to pay the rest of the team so the Colts had to settle for lesser talent.

I agree you don't take a QB just because you need one, I am happy the Bills did not draft Claussen for example but if A QB you think will be good you take him when you can.

The Fins made the mistake of passing on Matt Ryan to draft An OT, Jake Long. Do you think they are better with Long & Henne than they would have been with Ryan & a different LT? You are just WRONG.

[psubills62]

The Ravens did nothing aside from that one Super Bowl. The Bucs have been bad in the recent past, but from the time Warren Sapp was drafted until he left for Oakland the Bucs had an elite team but could do nothing because of lack of a good QB.

I already addressed the Colts & Manning. The Colts have paid him so much there was no money left to pay the rest of the team so the Colts had to settle for lesser talent.

I agree you don't take a QB just because you need one, I am happy the Bills did not draft Claussen for example but if A QB you think will be good you take him when you can.

The Fins made the mistake of passing on Matt Ryan to draft An OT, Jake Long. Do you think they are better with Long & Henne than they would have been with Ryan & a different LT? You are just WRONG.
I'm just WRONG? Haha, not exactly. As you said, if we went by what you seem to be a proponent of, we'd have Clausen right now. I'm sure that would turn out great.

So basically, in your post you named one situation where your philosophy doesn't work (Clausen and Buffalo), and one where it didn't (although I'd strongly contend that Long is not the reason Miami is struggling). I don't think you've proven anything. As I've continued to say, building a foundation along the lines and building your core there is where the key is. Yes, if you think a QB is good then draft him, but I believe that happens a LOT less often than people think (that a QB you think is good enough to draft in the 1st or 2nd round falls to you).

Teams should never take a QB just to take one.

[better days]

I'm just WRONG? Haha, not exactly. As you said, if we went by what you seem to be a proponent of, we'd have Clausen right now. I'm sure that would turn out great.

So basically, in your post you named one situation where your philosophy doesn't work (Clausen and Buffalo), and one where it didn't (although I'd strongly contend that Long is not the reason Miami is struggling). I don't think you've proven anything. As I've continued to say, building a foundation along the lines and building your core there is where the key is. Yes, if you think a QB is good then draft him, but I believe that happens a LOT less often than people think (that a QB you think is good enough to draft in the 1st or 2nd round falls to you).

Teams should never take a QB just to take one.

I agree & have said a team should not draft a QB just to draft one, & I cited Claussen as just such a QB. Learn to read.

What I have said is that a QB is there that looks like he will be GOOD, you need to draft him when you can.

Miami is not struggling because of Long ( he is a Pro Bowl LT) they are struggling because they took Long instead of Matt Ryan. Which PROVES your theory WRONG.

[psubills62]

I agree & have said a team should not draft a QB just to draft one, & I cited Claussen as just such a QB. Learn to read.

What I have said is that a QB is there that looks like he will be GOOD, you need to draft him when you can.

Miami is not struggling because of Long ( he is a Pro Bowl LT) they are struggling because they took Long instead of Matt Ryan. Which PROVES your theory WRONG.
However, you said the Bills HAVE to take a QB next year. That sounds like taking one just to take one, without even knowing which QB it might be.

Haha, it doesn't prove my theory wrong. One example proves it wrong? And you have no idea how Ryan would have turned out in Miami, so there's absolutely zero proof in your argument.

[Bill Cody]

BUM?

ding ding ding we have a winner!

[Bill Cody]

I'm so sick of this whole "If we had a good QB we'd be great!" Bull****.


I'm with you. The din of posters yelling we can win with a franchise QB and 44 CFL guys is deafening- make them stop.

[Bill Cody]

Focus on the trenches and if a QB you like drops to you, take him.

no

[Bill Cody]

However, you said the Bills HAVE to take a QB next year. That sounds like taking one just to take one, without even knowing which QB it might be.

We were prepared to take Cam Newton this year. But we passed on taking Gabbert. So I think our front office knows we need a QB but they won't just take any guy. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree we will be praying a franchise QB is there in the 1st round next year. How likely that is depends on our record.


And you have no idea how Ryan would have turned out in Miami, so there's absolutely zero proof in your argument.

:laughing:

[better days]

However, you said the Bills HAVE to take a QB next year. That sounds like taking one just to take one, without even knowing which QB it might be.

Haha, it doesn't prove my theory wrong. One example proves it wrong? And you have no idea how Ryan would have turned out in Miami, so there's absolutely zero proof in your argument.

OK good point. I said that thinking there will be a number of GOOD QBs in this draft as I have read & heard.