Bills sign G Keith Williams

[X-Era]

http://twitter.com/#!/buffalobills/status/116229635930464256

<s class="hash">#</s>Bills (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Bills) signed G Keith Williams 2 practice squad. 6-5,310-pd Nebraska product entered NFL as 6thrd(196th overall) draft choice of PIT in 2011

[justasportsfan]

Gailey likes em huge. Whats the 411 on him coming out of college? DB? Era?

[DraftBoy]

6'4, 318 lbs.

Typical Nebraska OL, big, strong, and has a mean streak.

Not technically or athletically gifted but he knows how to move the man in front of him. Not a bad pickup imo. Many thought he would make the Steelers 53 man as the last OL reserve.

Was Pitt's 6th round pick last draft.

[X-Era]

Here's some write up from a Pitt site:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/04/steelers-draft-g-keith-williams-with-31st-196th-overall-pick-of-the-6th-round/

[better days]

Looks like the kind of player Nix & Gailey like, BIG & NASTY.

[Mad Max]

http://www.footiewallpapers.com/pics/v/i/vince-lombardi-trophy-405x337px.jpg



But seriously, I'm down with picking up Stiller hand me downs when it comes to OL (LB would be fine as well). Especially a fresh draftee.

[Goobylal]

What happened with Antonio Coleman?

[The Jokeman]

What happened with Antonio Coleman?
Who cares? Yeah he was a feel good story who made the team last year as an UDFA but nabbed 12 tackles in 8 games played. Not really anything to write home about. He's a JAG (Just A Guy) and honestly I think it's a good sign when guys like Coleman don't return.

[TigerJ]

Buffalo can get away with interior linemen who are not great athlete's because they use more drive blocking rather than zone blocking. Zone blocking linemen have to be able to do a lot of lateral moving and on average tend to be a little lighter. He's probably not going to do a lot of pulling, but Andy Levitre and Eric Wood can provide that. He sounds a great deal like Urbik.

[ferg2butler]

By now I trust Nix dumpster diving abilities

[Oaf]

5 bucks says Keith Williams will start for us this year.

haha...... :ontome:

[X-Era]

By now I trust Nix dumpster diving abilitiesI don't. I want proven backups.

[TigerJ]

Proven backups are not generally eligible for the practice squad.

[X-Era]

Proven backups are not generally eligible for the practice squad.Of course they aren't. Right now we have no one behind Rhinehart or Levitre. If either gets injured, we have to shuffle another starter into that spot. Probably Wood and then start Colin Brown at C. Sorry, but I don't feel the situation is "solid" and I still feel we should add a vet who can play if we have an injury. I mean one injury to Wood, Levitre, or Rhinehart and we are starting Brown at C to go against Wilfork next week...

[better days]

Of course they aren't. Right now we have no one behind Rhinehart or Levitre. If either gets injured, we have to shuffle another starter into that spot. Probably Wood and then start Colin Brown at C. Sorry, but I don't feel the situation is "solid" and I still feel we should add a vet who can play if we have an injury. I mean one injury to Wood, Levitre, or Rhinehart and we are starting Brown at C to go against Wilfork next week...

Fergs post was not about OL depth, it was about Nix's ability to find players with potential from other teams castoffs.

Prior to the start of the season, many were saying how terrible Pears would be. Well, he won't make the Pro Bowl, but he is better than what was there before. That is dumpster diving.

[X-Era]

Fergs post was not about OL depth, it was about Nix's ability to find players with potential from other teams castoffs.

Prior to the start of the season, many were saying how terrible Pears would be. Well, he won't make the Pro Bowl, but he is better than what was there before. That is dumpster diving.Pears goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what? Hairston? OK. I'm not totally scared of that.

Rhinehart, Wood, or Levitre goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what?

[better days]

Pears goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what? Hairston? OK. I'm not totally scared of that.

Rhinehart, Wood, or Levitre goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what?

I get your point about OL depth but as I said, Fergs point was about Nix's ability to find talent from castoffs not about the OL depth or lack thereof.

Chan has said the Bills OL is good but has NO DEPTH. I expect them to add an OL player or 2 in the draft next year.

[DesertFox24]

Pears goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what? Hairston? OK. I'm not totally scared of that.

Rhinehart, Wood, or Levitre goes down in the middle of the NE game... now what?

I have a feeling that Buffalo will be drafting two OL this draft and hopefully early. That and another Corner.

I know it is not the answer you want nor the answer I want, but it is going to be the answer.

[X-Era]

I get your point about OL depth but as I said, Fergs point was about Nix's ability to find talent from castoffs not about the OL depth or lack thereof.OK. What's your opinion? How will we deal with a mid game injury? Is it adequate for you?

[X-Era]

I have a feeling that Buffalo will be drafting two OL this draft and hopefully early. That and another Corner.

I know it is not the answer you want nor the answer I want, but it is going to be the answer.I agree. I think a OT is highly likely and a G may be a mid to late round move as well. It will be interesting to see whether we go after a LT or not. Nix and Gailey seem to think Hairston can play LT in the NFL. I don't agree, I think he should be a RT, but it's not up to me.

CB is yet again going to be under serious consideration. Flo is one player, McKelvin just got torched by a rookie and has really regressed overall, and McGee is long in the tooth at this point.

Folks may get pissed about drafting another CB but i think it's likely and it may even be earlier rather than later.

[better days]

OK. What's your opinion? How will we deal with a mid game injury? Is it adequate for you?

Fingers crossed, prayers said.

[DesertFox24]

Watched the draft videos on him. He is intriguing to me in that the guy said he has natural knee bend and movement skills and looks the part. With his frame can probably easily add another 10 to 15 pounds of muscle and if getting cut is the guys wake up call to get better and work hard we might have a good interior reserve.

Good thing we will have the full off season this year to develop him.

Rinehart and Urbik have been good pick ups maybe this guy could be another in the future and beat out brown next year.

[X-Era]

Fingers crossed, prayers said.Wow. Seriously? I know we have no choice anyway but "praying" isn't a great place to be against a team like NE.

Sorry, but the situation is scary to me. I hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.

[X-Era]

Watched the draft videos on him. He is intriguing to me in that the guy said he has natural knee bend and movement skills and looks the part. With his frame can probably easily add another 10 to 15 pounds of muscle and if getting cut is the guys wake up call to get better and work hard we might have a good interior reserve.

Good thing we will have the full off season this year to develop him.

Rinehart and Urbik have been good pick ups maybe this guy could be another in the future and beat out brown next year.I'm good with any prospect getting a chance to earn a spot.

But, I'd like more solid options as well.

On the draft, there are lot's of potential 1st round OT prospects so even if we draft mid-1 we still have some options.

[acehole]

They got him for his pulling ability.....
Short yardage package and runblocking.

He can hold a block for 3 seconds as thats all fitz needs.
They where going to draft him.




I'm good with any prospect getting a chance to earn a spot.

But, I'd like more solid options as well.

On the draft, there are lot's of potential 1st round OT prospects so even if we draft mid-1 we still have some options.

[better days]

Wow. Seriously? I know we have no choice anyway but "praying" isn't a great place to be against a team like NE.

Sorry, but the situation is scary to me. I hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.

Well, that is the point, Nix & Gailey knew before the season started that there was no depth on the OL. They thought it was more important to fix the defense first which I agree with.

I believe in the power of prayer because there is no logical reason I should be alive today. I believe the prayers of others for me has kept me alive. My Cancer Dr. tells all his new patients about me to give them hope.

All we can do is pray & hope the Bills don't suffer any serious injuries on the OL.

[X-Era]

Well, that is the point, Nix & Gailey knew before the season started that there was no depth on the OL. They thought it was more important to fix the defense first which I agree with.

I believe in the power of prayer because there is no logical reason I should be alive today. I believe the prayers of others for me has kept me alive. My Cancer Dr. tells all his new patients about me to give them hope.

All we can do is pray & hope the Bills don't suffer any serious injuries on the OL.I'm good with being hopeful, don't get me wrong.

But, it's not like the Bills couldn't do something about it.

[better days]

I'm good with being hopeful, don't get me wrong.

But, it's not like the Bills couldn't do something about it.

Well, the Seahawks signed Robert Gallery to a big contract & he is out injured. There were no QUALITY FA OL players to be had this year.

The draft also had many more defensive players rated highly than OL players so I don't know what else could be done but what they did, pick through the scraps & hope to find a little meat left on the bone.

[X-Era]

Well, the Seahawks signed Robert Gallery to a big contract & he is out injured. There were no QUALITY FA OL players to be had this year.

The draft also had many more defensive players rated highly than OL players so I don't know what else could be done but what they did, pick through the scraps & hope to find a little meat left on the bone.Leonard Davis and Flozell Adams are both quality backups.

[Ed]

Wow. Seriously? I know we have no choice anyway but "praying" isn't a great place to be against a team like NE.

Sorry, but the situation is scary to me. I hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.
If someone gets hurt then Brown has to step in and we do the best we can. How's it any different then the Pats situation? They already lost their starting center and now their only backup interior lineman is a 290 lb nobody, Ryan Wendell. They also have a rookie backing up both tackle spots.

Stop overreacting to the what ifs. If we suffer injuries then that sucks and it will make things harder, but that's life in the NFL and it's the same for all teams.

[better days]

Leonard Davis and Flozell Adams are both quality backups.

Well, they are both also old. Adams has been injured a number of times. Both played for the Cowboys who have higher aspirations than the Bills of making the playoffs (at least up to this point) yet the Cowboys got rid of both of them.

[X-Era]

Well, they are both also old. Adams has been injured a number of times. Both played for the Cowboys who have higher aspirations than the Bills of making the playoffs (at least up to this point) yet the Cowboys got rid of both of them.Both have experience starting and Adams was starting for the SB Pitt team last year.

I'm good with supporting our team, but let's not get crazy here. Colin Brown has done zero in this league. Both the guys I mentioned would be very solid backups.

And, the Pats have Brian Waters as a backup. If anything the Pats are showing us how to do it. The Ravens have a proven starter as their primary backup C/G. I don't think we can say every team has the lack of depth that we do.

[Ed]

Both have experience starting and Adams was starting for the SB Pitt team last year.

I'm good with supporting our team, but let's not get crazy here. Colin Brown has done zero in this league. Both the guys I mentioned would be very solid backups.

And, the Pats have Brian Waters as a backup. If anything the Pats are showing us how to do it. The Ravens have a proven starter as their primary backup C/G. I don't think we can say every team has the lack of depth that we do.
Brian Waters is starting for them because of the injury to Koppan. Their only backup right now is Ryan Wendell. They're in the same situation we are.

[X-Era]

Brian Waters is starting for them because of the injury to Koppan. Their only backup right now is Ryan Wendell. They're in the same situation we are.They suffered an injury to Connolly and signed Waters... we suffered an injury to Urbik and started Rhinehart. They signed a guys with years of pro-bowls behind him, we went with Rhinehart.

Vollmer- started 16 games last year, 25 total starts
Solder- their 1st round draft pick is the backup

Connolly (injured)- started 13 games last year, 18 total starts
Brian Waters- started all 16 games last year (KC), 151 total starts

Dan Koppen- Started all 16 games last year, 121 total starts
Ryan Wendell- 2 total starts

Logan Mankins- Started 9 games last year, 91 total starts
Brian Waters- see above

Matt Light- Started 16 games last year, 121 total starts
Nate Solder- See above

They did exactly what I'm saying we should do. Have a proven vet as a backup. Waters is starting due to injury. If we lose any G or C we are starting Colin Brown.

If you can't see the difference in these two squads, I can't help.

[TigerJ]

I generally get what you're saying, X-Era, and I agree, it would be nice to have a proven line with proven depth. Perhaps there are things Nix could do to to have that depth. It seems like we're moving in that direction. Last year we had Cornel Green at right tackle and he was admittedly a disaster. We signed scrubs to be able to get through the year in Mansfield Wrotto and Cordaro Howard. The line is better this year than last. Our starters seem to be performing pretty well even though they aren't all blue chippers. The depth is still thin. I think Chris Hairston will do a decent job if he has to go in for Pears or Bell. Sam Young might be OK at RT. As you remind us, if one of the interior linemen go down we're going to call on Collin Brown. I remember reading that he was not awful when he went in during the preseason, but of course he was playing against other scrubs. I hope it doesn't come to that. So we're still proceeding on something of a wing and a prayer this year, and it would be nice to have something a little firmer.

Looking ahead, though, if Nix's assessments are accurate, the Bills could be building a solid stable of big young linemen who will keep the line situation solid for a lot of years.

[Ed]

They suffered an injury to Connolly and signed Waters... we suffered an injury to Urbik and started Rhinehart. They signed a guys with years of pro-bowls behind him, we went with Rhinehart.

Vollmer- started 16 games last year, 25 total starts
Solder- their 1st round draft pick is the backup

Connolly (injured)- started 13 games last year, 18 total starts
Brian Waters- started all 16 games last year (KC), 151 total starts

Dan Koppen- Started all 16 games last year, 121 total starts
Ryan Wendell- 2 total starts

Logan Mankins- Started 9 games last year, 91 total starts
Brian Waters- see above

Matt Light- Started 16 games last year, 121 total starts
Nate Solder- See above

They did exactly what I'm saying we should do. Have a proven vet as a backup. Waters is starting due to injury. If we lose any G or C we are starting Colin Brown.

If you can't see the difference in these two squads, I can't help.
It's Koppan that is injured. Connolly moved to center and Water has taken his spot at guard.

I'm not saying that our O-line is as good as the Pats, but they are in the same exact situation as us. You keep saying that if we lose a G or C then we are starting Colin Brown. If the Pats lose a G or C, they are starting Ryan Wendell. Neither of those situations are good for either team. Both teams have one third stringer backing up the interior of the line. The situations this week for both teams are the same. That's my point. Your biggest concern is that we're one play away from Brown playing. The Pats are one play away from Wendell playing.

[justasportsfan]

They did exactly what I'm saying we should do. Have a proven vet as a backup. Waters is starting due to injury. If we lose any G or C we are starting Colin Brown.

If you can't see the difference in these two squads, I can't help.

they already have a core .We are still establishing a core. Should we get TO to replace Parrish?

[mysticsoto]

they already have a core .We are still establishing a core. Should we get TO to replace Parrish?

TO is in Korea getting stem cell treatment on his knee...

X-era's point is valid. There were decent veterans that we could have gotten and we didn't. If another inside Guard goes down we could be in trouble.

[X-Era]

It's Koppan that is injured. Connolly moved to center and Water has taken his spot at guard.

I'm not saying that our O-line is as good as the Pats, but they are in the same exact situation as us. You keep saying that if we lose a G or C then we are starting Colin Brown. If the Pats lose a G or C, they are starting Ryan Wendell. Neither of those situations are good for either team. Both teams have one third stringer backing up the interior of the line. The situations this week for both teams are the same. That's my point. Your biggest concern is that we're one play away from Brown playing. The Pats are one play away from Wendell playing.
Waters >>>> Rhinehart. Both are starting due to injury.

Koppen started 13 games last year and moved to C. If we lost Wood, we would start Colin Brown. Instead, Koppen moved to C and Waters moved up to G. They sustained an injury and had a viable, proven NFL player who can start to back him up.

They did exactly what I have been saying we should do. Get a solid vet. They dealt with the situation totally different than us. It's not the same man, sorry.

I sincerely hope it doesn't matter and that we don't end up with another injury. I honestly hope we don't.

[X-Era]

TO is in Korea getting stem cell treatment on his knee...

X-era's point is valid. There were decent veterans that we could have gotten and we didn't. If another inside Guard goes down we could be in trouble.His point is that the Pats would be in the same boat if they lost another G too. The point is they had two quality, proven players in Koppen who went to C and Waters who then started at G. We started with 2, unproven guys as our primary backups. No matter how you look at it, they were one proven vet deeper then us as far as backups and I won't even touch who is more proven as a whole.

[better days]

His point is that the Pats would be in the same boat if they lost another G too. The point is they had two quality, proven players in Koppen who went to C and Waters who then started at G. We started with 2, unproven guys as our primary backups.

Well, as Justa has said, the Pats* are an established team, WELL ESTABLISHED, the Bills are in the process of getting established. You have to have quality starters before you worry about quality back ups.

[X-Era]

Well, as Justa has said, the Pats* are an established team, WELL ESTABLISHED, the Bills are in the process of getting established. You have to have quality starters before you worry about quality back ups.No. I really don't think you do. What you should do is have both. Have young guys competing for jobs who represent your future and some quality vet backups so you're not forced to start guys that may not be ready. We are green as the hills on the right side and for backups. So far we have been fine and it appears that Nix was right that these guys are better than some of us thought they were. But it's too risky for my taste and many teams look at it differently. Right now we are one injury, at any of 3 positions away from playing Colin Brown against Vince Wilfork.

I mean Leonard Davis would somehow hurt the development of a practice squad guy like Keith Williams? I don't see that.

[justasportsfan]

X-era's point is valid. There were decent veterans that we could have gotten and we didn't. If another inside Guard goes down we could be in trouble.

It is valid but you are comparing a team (bills) that is still in the process of developing and finding out what they have as opposed to a team (pats) that only needs band aids. Bills are still in year 2 of rebuild. You can't develop players by taking away playing time by plugging in guys who won't be here next year anyways.

[X-Era]

It is valid but you are comparing a team (bills) that is still in the process of developing and finding out what they have as opposed to a team (pats) that only needs band aids. Bills are still in year 2 of rebuild. You can't develop players by taking away playing time by plugging in guys who won't be here next year anyways.What playing time will we be taking away by having Leonard Davis, for example, as a backup?

[justasportsfan]

What playing time will we be taking away by having Leonard Davis, for example, as a backup?

Grabbing guys like Waters will take a roster spot from someone we are trying to develop regardless of position. Why do you think Nix let Evans go? Thats because he knew Lee wouldn't be here anyways when his contract expires but we all know that we'd still be better with Lee than without Lee. Nix would rather use Lees spot to develop guys like Jones or anyone who he hopes will be here for the long haul.

[X-Era]

Grabbing guys like Waters will take a roster spot from someone we are trying to develop regardless of position. Why do you think Nix let Evans go? Thats because he knew Lee wouldn't be here anyways when his contract expires but we all know that we'd still be better with Lee than without Lee. Nix would rather use Lees spot to develop guys like Jones or anyone who he hopes will be here for the long haul.
Having a backup doesn't hurt anyone's playing time. I don't even think it hurts practice time.

But OK. Sounds like you agree with the youth movement philosophy and are willing to risk wins to develop players. Personally, I'm not dead set against it, but I'm not a huge fan.

[justasportsfan]

Having a backup doesn't hurt anyone's playing time. I don't even think it hurts practice time.

But OK. Sounds like you agree with the youth movement philosophy and are willing to risk wins to develop players. Personally, I'm not dead set against it, but I'm not a huge fan.


I would be right there with you if the bills were set on making a sb run like the Pats. We're not there yet.

[mysticsoto]

Grabbing guys like Waters will take a roster spot from someone we are trying to develop regardless of position. Why do you think Nix let Evans go? Thats because he knew Lee wouldn't be here anyways when his contract expires but we all know that we'd still be better with Lee than without Lee. Nix would rather use Lees spot to develop guys like Jones or anyone who he hopes will be here for the long haul.

Except that the Oline is a place where lots of injuries occur. As such, you need to plan ahead and have good backups there. It is not sufficient to have just anybody signed just b'cse they are young and "have potential". That was why we had Wang here. And he was a waste - I said it when we drafted him that I didn't like it at all. Drafting someone that is young doesn't make them good insurance. A vet does provide insurance. And it's not like we don't have the money. Yes, it is a roster spot. But what happens if Levitre goes down this wk? Rhinehart would probably move to LG and Brown to RG. That's not exactly something I'd feel comfortable with.

Remember that all it took was one hit/concussion for Trent Edwards never to be the same again...

[X-Era]

Except that the Oline is a place where lots of injuries occur. As such, you need to plan ahead and have good backups there. It is not sufficient to have just anybody signed just b'cse they are young and "have potential". That was why we had Wang here. And he was a waste - I said it when we drafted him that I didn't like it at all. Drafting someone that is young doesn't make them good insurance. A vet does provide insurance. And it's not like we don't have the money. Yes, it is a roster spot. But what happens if Levitre goes down this wk? Rhinehart would probably move to LG and Brown to RG. That's not exactly something I'd feel comfortable with.

Remember that all it took was one hit/concussion for Trent Edwards never to be the same again...An injury to a lineman could cost an injury to our starting QB if the replacement isn't adequate. Brown vs. Wilfork scares the **** out of me.

[justasportsfan]

Except that the Oline is a place where lots of injuries occur. As such, you need to plan ahead and have good backups there. It is not sufficient to have just anybody signed just b'cse they are young and "have potential". That was why we had Wang here. And he was a waste - I said it when we drafted him that I didn't like it at all. Drafting someone that is young doesn't make them good insurance. A vet does provide insurance. And it's not like we don't have the money. Yes, it is a roster spot. But what happens if Levitre goes down this wk? Rhinehart would probably move to LG and Brown to RG. That's not exactly something I'd feel comfortable with.

Remember that all it took was one hit/concussion for Trent Edwards never to be the same again...


I see your point but like Chan said he is confident with Reinhart. Until we are down to zero back ups, I can't argue with their thoughts since up to this point, they have been right.

Having older back ups does not gurantee anything either.

MY argument is not that one way is better than the other but comparing us to the patriots. Apples and oranges.

[DesertFox24]

His point is that the Pats would be in the same boat if they lost another G too. The point is they had two quality, proven players in Koppen who went to C and Waters who then started at G. We started with 2, unproven guys as our primary backups. No matter how you look at it, they were one proven vet deeper then us as far as backups and I won't even touch who is more proven as a whole.

Waters in his prime is way better than Rinehart in his prime. However, Waters is no longer in his prime. I have no idea who is better at this point in their careers.

X-era, I just do not think this team really wants to sign older vets anymore. If you look at the guys we have signed with the exception of Andra Davis they are still right around 30 or younger.

Right or wrong it is what they are going to do.

Hopefully in time we not have to worry about this because we will have drafted quality depth, we are just not there yet with the OL.

[X-Era]

Waters in his prime is way better than Rinehart in his prime. However, Waters is no longer in his prime. I have no idea who is better at this point in their careers.

X-era, I just do not think this team really wants to sign older vets anymore. If you look at the guys we have signed with the exception of Andra Davis they are still right around 30 or younger.

Right or wrong it is what they are going to do.

Hopefully in time we not have to worry about this because we will have drafted quality depth, we are just not there yet with the OL.I totally agree. It is what they are doing. I wouldn't do it this way, but that's just my opinion.

And I agree with Justa that our OL situation is nothing like the Pats OL situation. I've been making that argument as well.

I hope our plan works out for us and so far it has.

[Ed]

Waters >>>> Rhinehart. Both are starting due to injury.

Koppen started 13 games last year and moved to C. If we lost Wood, we would start Colin Brown. Instead, Koppen moved to C and Waters moved up to G. They sustained an injury and had a viable, proven NFL player who can start to back him up.

They did exactly what I have been saying we should do. Get a solid vet. They dealt with the situation totally different than us. It's not the same man, sorry.

I sincerely hope it doesn't matter and that we don't end up with another injury. I honestly hope we don't.
Koppen is INJURED. They moved Connolly to C and Waters stepped in at guard. Their only depth at C/G is now Ryan Wendell. If Mankins, Conolly, or Waters gets hurt this week, Wendell has to step in and play. That's the same exact thing as Brown having to step in this week if we suffer an injury. Both the Pats and the Bills have the same exact issue with depth this week. The problem you're having is that you're trying to compare our third string guy to their second string guy.

[X-Era]

Koppen is INJURED. They moved Connolly to C and Waters stepped in at guard. Their only depth at C/G is now Ryan Wendell. If Mankins, Conolly, or Waters gets hurt this week, Wendell has to step in and play. That's the same exact thing as Brown having to step in this week if we suffer an injury. Both the Pats and the Bills have the same exact issue with depth this week. The problem you're having is that you're trying to compare our third string guy to their second string guy.No. Let's make it clear. Who is their primary backup to Koppen at C? Connolly. Who is their primary backup at Connolly at G? Waters.

Connolly > Colin Brown
Waters > Rhinehart

All are primary backups.

Brown is our primary backup at C, Connolly is theirs
Rhinehart is our primary backup at G, Waters is theirs

In both cases they have quality, proven, vets as primary backups... we don't.

[DesertFox24]

Waters > Rhinehart



Again I am not sure this is accurate, it used to be, but I am not sure it is today.

Bruce Smith was not the same for the skins as he was for us, also if Waters was the all pro waters do you think KC would have cut him?

No doubt he still has some game, but I am not sure he is better than a 25 year old this year.

[X-Era]

Again I am not sure this is accurate, it used to be, but I am not sure it is today.

Bruce Smith was not the same for the skins as he was for us, also if Waters was the all pro waters do you think KC would have cut him?

No doubt he still has some game, but I am not sure he is better than a 25 year old this year.Well having the experience alone makes him more valuable IMO. But that's at this point. If Rhinehart progresses, he may quickly become a better option. At this point we will just have to agree to disgaree.

[justasportsfan]

Well having the experience alone makes him more valuable IMO. But that's at this point. If Rhinehart progresses, he may quickly become a better option. At this point we will just have to agree to disgaree.

Not all the time. Rhinehart has more experience in Gaileys system and playing with the same cast than Waters. If Waters is too old to pull and not familiar with the system, then we may have to revise what we're doing while we can continue with our gameplan with Rhinehart.

[mysticsoto]

Not all the time. Rhinehart has more experience in Gaileys system and playing with the same cast than Waters. If Waters is too old to pull and not familiar with the system, then we may have to revise what we're doing while we can continue with our gameplan with Rhinehart.


Rhinehart is not going to be pulling much. He's a road grater. The left side has more capacity for pulling than the right side. And judging by the type of Olinemen they are getting lately, they seem more interested in road graters given that Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly and doesn't need long pass protection.

[justasportsfan]

Rhinehart is not going to be pulling much. He's a road grater. The left side has more capacity for pulling than the right side. And judging by the type of Olinemen they are getting lately, they seem more interested in road graters given that Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly and doesn't need long pass protection.

whether it's pullingor not, he still has an advantage knowing the system than a Waters would.

[mysticsoto]

whether it's pullingor not, he still has an advantage knowing the system than a Waters would.

Maybe, maybe not. You have to be able to execute also. It is up in the air which can execute better. However, imagine the result of having Rhinehart AND Waters on our team. I think this is the point X-era is complaining about. Why didn't we go out and bring in a veteran to complement what we have as assurance. Instead, now we may have to rely on Brown by the end of the year. Maybe he's ok, maybe he's not. But the last thing we want on a team that is on an upswing, is to be derailed by injuries and have rookies become turnstiles. And again, I'm not saying he's another pucillo, nor am I saying he's not. A veteran is not an unknown, however, in as much as a new rookie is.

And as for the argument that Brown is working right now with the team and learning, taking reps in practice, etc...he could have still done that on the PS.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe, maybe not.
exactly. It's the same thing with Waters' experience. Maybe ,maybe not. In other words wboth sides have their merit.

[better days]

No. I really don't think you do. What you should do is have both. Have young guys competing for jobs who represent your future and some quality vet backups so you're not forced to start guys that may not be ready. We are green as the hills on the right side and for backups. So far we have been fine and it appears that Nix was right that these guys are better than some of us thought they were. But it's too risky for my taste and many teams look at it differently. Right now we are one injury, at any of 3 positions away from playing Colin Brown against Vince Wilfork.

I mean Leonard Davis would somehow hurt the development of a practice squad guy like Keith Williams? I don't see that.

Well, we will see after Sunday where the Bills are heading, but with this YOUNG team, I would rather see them develop a young guy that may become a QUALITY back up for YEARS or maybe even a starter, than a guy on his last legs that a team like the Cowboys no longer wants.

[X-Era]

Well, we will see after Sunday where the Bills are heading, but with this YOUNG team, I would rather see them develop a young guy that may become a QUALITY back up for YEARS or maybe even a starter, than a guy on his last legs that a team like the Cowboys no longer wants.It could be fine. I'm worried but I also can't see the future. But, you should admit that this could go horribly bad.

[Ed]

No. Let's make it clear. Who is their primary backup to Koppen at C? Connolly. Who is their primary backup at Connolly at G? Waters.

Connolly > Colin Brown
Waters > Rhinehart

All are primary backups.

Brown is our primary backup at C, Connolly is theirs
Rhinehart is our primary backup at G, Waters is theirs

In both cases they have quality, proven, vets as primary backups... we don't.
I understand what you're saying about Connolly and Waters being better players, but they are not depth. They are both starters right now. So who's their primary backup? Ryan Wendell. That's their depth right now, which is what I thought was the point of this whole discussion. Depth. The Pats may have a better O-line then us, but they still have the same depth concerns as the Bills right now.

On a side note, how do we know that Levitre isn't the primary backup to Wood?

[X-Era]

I understand what you're saying about Connolly and Waters being better players, but they are not depth. They are both starters right now. So who's their primary backup? Ryan Wendell. That's their depth right now, which is what I thought was the point of this whole discussion. Depth. The Pats may have a better O-line then us, but they still have the same depth concerns as the Bills right now.

On a side note, how do we know that Levitre isn't the primary backup to Wood?Dude. This is my last post with you on this. you are comparing the Bills primary backup to the Pats 3rd stringer. I've shown you that. They have solid, proven starters across the board and added a proven player to be a backup. That is the difference.

[Ed]

Dude. This is my last post with you on this. you are comparing the Bills primary backup to the Pats 3rd stringer. I've shown you that. They have solid, proven starters across the board and added a proven player to be a backup. That is the difference.
No, you're comparing a starter, Connolly, to Colin Brown. Connolly is still a starter even when Koppen is playing C.

As of right now, who are the primary backups at center for both teams? Colin and Wendell. Those are the facts.