BoB: Refer a Friend

[The King]

The cap has eliminated a lot of people from playing the game, so I have been trying to think of a way to get more involved without cheating those who have played the game more catiously thus far.

I was thinking about implementing a Refer a Friend bonus... if you get a friend to join the game you'd receive a 20,000 cap increase.

Ultimately I want to get feedback from you guys to see if you think this is fair. If caught cheating you'll be banned from the game. We can track IP's. I thought this would be a good way to help the game grow and to get everyone back in the game. Thoughts?

[THATHURMANATOR]

NO NO NO NO NONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[THATHURMANATOR]

ok maybe....

[TacklingDummy]

My wife wants to play. We'll have the same ip.

[The King]

haha

[BLeonard]

Too many slippery slopes there that could be exposed, IMO...

Theoretically, I could give another board member some cash to play (or, even give them a card AND give them cash). Technically, they would then be in the game, I would have "recruited" them and, on top of freeing up the cap room by getting rid of a card, but also would get the $20k bonus cap... That's not exactly fair, IMO.

People knew the cap on day 1. They chose to blow it. Do you feel sorry for an athlete that gets a $50 million signing bonus, then ends up broke, because he couldn't manage his money? I don't.

-Bill

[Mski]

as one of the ones who is out of cap space, I am with Bill on this one.

[Ebenezer]

As nice as it would be to have "new players" all we will end up with is people creating an alias to "play" the game and get the bonus. Then, the alias never plays. Pass. People knew the rules. I think what is chasing people away is not the cap but the time it will take for all those people to accrue 10 cards.

[The King]

im not seeing the activity we used to see

[mysticsoto]

im not seeing the activity we used to see

Maybe it's the skanks you've been having lately. How about some top notch stuff???

[The King]

you dont think todays girl is top notch?

[hydro]

Yeah the cap has really made this game unplayable because even though the money has come down it still isn't enough.

My thought was to make it so that your final lineup when the game is "done" is 5 women. The cap on those 5 women would have to be below 200,000 but the kicker is that you could own more than 5 cards. When the game concludes you will set your 5 women lineup and you will have to use the values of each card to make it under the cap but make the best stable. Thoughts?

[bf1]

Maybe you said so in the beginning or not... But there really needed to be a kind of start date and end date to this, or # of women total (kind of think like nfl 53x32). so we could have budgeted better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you dont think todays girl is top notch?
I don't.

[Ebenezer]

you dont think todays girl is top notch?

She looks 15. Yeah, I know - I am older and prefer somebody who doesn't look 15 but most of the "women" you put up for bid could be my kids - and have the body for it, too.

[chernobylwraiths]

as one of the ones who is out of cap space, I am with Bill on this one.

I'll second that.

[jamze132]

im not seeing the activity we used to see
That's because the game is way too long to begin with. The majority of the ones who are on here pretty much everyday are close to their cap limit. I know I haven't even bothered to bid since I know I am not going to be able to buy anyone for 11K.

Maybe you could have a game last 2-3 months. You could also implement more or different changes more often as the game ends and a new one begins.

[The King]

The game will change to start 2012.

This version will end in Nov.

[TMu11]

Yeah the cap has really made this game unplayable because even though the money has come down it still isn't enough.

My thought was to make it so that your final lineup when the game is "done" is 5 women. The cap on those 5 women would have to be below 200,000 but you the kicker is that you could own more than 5 cards. When the game concludes you will set your 5 women lineup and you will have to use the values of each card to make it under the cap but make the best stable. Thoughts?

Wow, I really like that idea.

For the record, I'm with the others as far as the cap being the cap as was set forth in the beginning. Hydro's idea makes a lot of sense though. Unfortunately implementing a change like this halfway through the "season" would cause a lot of moaning and griping from people who could have bid higher on girls they wanted but were restricted by cap space, and others who have traded out girls to free up space.

[EricStratton]

I think the idea that Cher is pushing of trading cards and the values of them has a lot of potential to keep the game interesting and free up cap space for players.

If only the bastard would accept my offers.

[mysticsoto]

you dont think todays girl is top notch?

Not even close!!!

[utmhead]

That's because the game is way too long to begin with. The majority of the ones who are on here pretty much everyday are close to their cap limit. I know I haven't even bothered to bid since I know I am not going to be able to buy anyone for 11K.

Maybe you could have a game last 2-3 months. You could also implement more or different changes more often as the game ends and a new one begins.


I bid almost everyday and I have plenty of cap room. :air:

[mysticsoto]

The game will change to start 2012.

This version will end in Nov.

November? How does that give anyone time to accumulate 10 girls??? That's only 1 month away. At this rate, we basically need to spend what we've got quickly b'cse nobody is going to get to 10 that fast!!!

[hydro]

November? How does that give anyone time to accumulate 10 girls??? That's only 1 month away. At this rate, we basically need to spend what we've got quickly b'cse nobody is going to get to 10 that fast!!!

That's where my idea would help the situation. Although with the amount of ZBs that some of these people have we would have to limit people to 10 girls total but in the end only 5 will be your final stable.

[The King]

November? How does that give anyone time to accumulate 10 girls??? That's only 1 month away. At this rate, we basically need to spend what we've got quickly b'cse nobody is going to get to 10 that fast!!!

Thats about 40 girls between now and the end of Nov

[chernobylwraiths]

I think the idea that Cher is pushing of trading cards and the values of them has a lot of potential to keep the game interesting and free up cap space for players.

If only the bastard would accept my offers.

I DON'T WANT LECTER'S CATS!!!

[mysticsoto]

Thats about 40 girls between now and the end of Nov
That's not alot. We've had like 30 people participating. Yeah, a few are in cap trouble and out of it now, but not that many. And yeah, I know that not all always participate each day, but still.

The initial talk of this game led one to believe that 10 girls would be possible, but not in this time frame. Some of our strategies have been predicated on the long run. Now you're saying there is no long run...

At the very least we should go thru X-mas.

[BLeonard]

November? How does that give anyone time to accumulate 10 girls??? That's only 1 month away. At this rate, we basically need to spend what we've got quickly b'cse nobody is going to get to 10 that fast!!!

Nobody is gonna get to 10, even if the game goes through the end of the year, as initially planned.

For someone to get 10 cards under $200k, they need to average no more than $20k per card. This game has been going for about 5 months and, to date, only 7 cards have gone for less than $20K... Take out my "Reward card" and that falls to 6... Take out the first five cards in the game and you're down to 4 (Diaz and Graham fall into this category). You're just not gonna get 10 cards under the $200k mark. Period.

I said this before and I think part of the issue is the fact that, while we have a maximum amount of cards that people can have (10) there is no minimum amount. I tend to believe nobody would have blown $80k on one card, if they knew they needed 5 cards in order to qualify (well, maybe clump would have...).

I think part of the issue is, earlier, there was sort of a "I have to win a card NOW factor. That's coming back to haunt some players now, as they are out of cap room. Of the 35 players that have a card, 11 have less then $20k in cap room.

Personally, I would end this "season" on Friday, November 18th. When you said "The game will end in November" I don't know if you mean November 1st or November 30th. November 18th is the last Friday before Thanksgiving. It will give us time to determine a winner (which we need to figure out exactly HOW to determine a winner, too) and give us the entire holiday season to prepare for the next "season." It will also allow plenty of time to implement suggestions and establish "new" rules.

I have a junkload of ideas to suggest for next season... I won't elaborate on them here, but I do have pretty detailed explanations on each idea. My ideas include:

1: Larger salary cap, pending on how long the "season" is.
2: A "draft," wth the cards weighted depending on round taken. 3 rounds max.
3: Require a minimum amount of cards needed to be "eligible."
4: Perhaps a "penalty" to a player outbidding others by X amount.
5: Set a minimum and a maximum amount that a card can be sold for. this would prevent the "Historian" purchases and also prevent someone simply unloading a card on someone (What prevents me from paying someone to take a card and free up some cap room?

Just a couple ideas off the top of my head.

-Bill

[BlackMetalNinja]

Jamze is dead on with the reason for reduced activity... The majority of those people that have been heavily active up until this point just don't have the cap space left to battle it out on a daily basis. There are a few people that are still "waiting" for the prices to come down, which has begun to happen... and there are even more that seem to just float in here every once in a while to take their shot, but aren't really active players on a daily basis.

Personally, I intentionally hit my cap at this point because I know between a 2nd child and starting work next week, I am more or less going to vanish from this place again. I chose the quality over quantity route, which was my plan all along anyways. Nobody is going to come close to10 as Bleonard mentioned, the way the game has been played so far just won't allow for it.

[BLeonard]

Yeah the cap has really made this game unplayable because even though the money has come down it still isn't enough.

My thought was to make it so that your final lineup when the game is "done" is 5 women. The cap on those 5 women would have to be below 200,000 but the kicker is that you could own more than 5 cards. When the game concludes you will set your 5 women lineup and you will have to use the values of each card to make it under the cap but make the best stable. Thoughts?

The problem I see with that is, richer players could simply outbid those without extra cash... I might not be able to "play" all of the higher priced cards, but I can certainly prevent someone else from playing them, simply by winning the card, then benching them.

In your sceanrio, what prevents clump from simply sitting Danica McKellar, essentially giving him his entire $200k cap back?

Now, if you implement a TOTAL CAP (total cost of all cards acquired) and then have a lesser TEAM CAP (in your suggestion, a cap for the 5 that you "play") it might be bale to work better, since nobody would be able to afford having a very high priced card just "sitting the bench."

On top of that, it would be tough to figure out who everyone is "playing" and who everyone is "sitting." Most of us put cards in our sigs, but not everyone does.

-Bill

[Static]

I liked this game better when it was just about buying chics.

[hydro]

The problem I see with that is, richer players could simply outbid those without extra cash... I might not be able to "play" all of the higher priced cards, but I can certainly prevent someone else from playing them, simply by winning the card, then benching them.

In your sceanrio, what prevents clump from simply sitting Danica McKellar, essentially giving him his entire $200k cap back?

Now, if you implement a TOTAL CAP (total cost of all cards acquired) and then have a lesser TEAM CAP (in your suggestion, a cap for the 5 that you "play") it might be bale to work better, since nobody would be able to afford having a very high priced card just "sitting the bench."

On top of that, it would be tough to figure out who everyone is "playing" and who everyone is "sitting." Most of us put cards in our sigs, but not everyone does.

-Bill

I think not knowing what someone final stable is could make the game a little more interesting. You could have all your cards in your signature but when the game ends you have to pick 5 of them that you deem the best while also fitting under the 200k cap.

[chernobylwraiths]

I also changed strategy midstream. At first thinking I would have plenty of time to bid when the values dropped, I noticed more and more people participating. And realized that there wasn't a whole lot more time till the end of the "season".

I also started to pick and choose more and tried to not bid too high on any cards. At a certain point, I decided to go with 4 or 5 women if I could get them, saving as much of my cap at the end for someone of high name recognition.

Lastly, I think boredom somewhat has set it with the game. Several months is a long time to try and keep people's attention and it shows with the low bids for people like Scarlett, Angelina and Halle. There is no way those women go for under 80 K early on.

Add to that the fact that the game got its own section has also gotten less traffic onto the game. With the change of structure now, it might even be less.

I think BL is almost creepy into this game, but I agree with him on almost all counts regarding everything except his ratings. I guess that makes me a little creepy too then, but people who know me are not surprised by this.

[The King]

This is why the original formula for BorB was perfect

[BLeonard]

That's because the game is way too long to begin with. The majority of the ones who are on here pretty much everyday are close to their cap limit. I know I haven't even bothered to bid since I know I am not going to be able to buy anyone for 11K.

Maybe you could have a game last 2-3 months. You could also implement more or different changes more often as the game ends and a new one begins.

Here's the problem I see with shortening the game...

If you only have it for 3 months (Lets say 60 cards) you'll end up getting repeats of the same 60 women up for auction. Just to emphasize this: Of the 100 women on this year's Maxim Hot 100, Today's auction (Emma Stone) is only the 19th one off of that list to even hit the market. Personally, I don't want to see the same cards recycled multiple times a year...

Here's my solution to that: Split the year into quarters. Then, have a cap for each quarter of the year. So, Jan-Mar, Apr-Jun, Jul-Sep, Oct-Dec. A different colored border for the cards could easily indicate which quarter the card was bought in. Have a $250k cap for each quarter. That way, everyone has the same amount to spend, but, if they blow their wad in the first three months, they'd get a new cap to work with on April 1st. That way, we don't just recycle the same women in all the time.

-Bill

[utmhead]

Hey BL,
With Knox being set free I think that the value on your card should go down. IMO

[BLeonard]

I think not knowing what someone final stable is could make the game a little more interesting. You could have all your cards in your signature but when the game ends you have to pick 5 of them that you deem the best while also fitting under the 200k cap.

In a way, you're right... But, based on the prices of the cards, it could become pretty easy to determine who will be "played" and who will be "benched."

For instance, what then stops me from simply bidding $50K every time? No, I won't win every card and I can only hold 10 total, but a guy like Chern (who only has about 50k in ZB TOTAL) will be outbid by me every single time, until I win 10 cards. Is that really fair to him to be out of the bidding every day, until my team is full, just because I have the ZB to do so?

Being limited because you are too close to the cap is one thing. Being outbid all the time, simply because you have less ZB than someone, is completely different.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

Hey BL,
With Knox being set free I think that the value on your card should go down. IMO

She's been in jail how long??

How good do you think getting banged looks to her right now...?

I lose the "convicted murderer" advantage, but now, she's free and searching for bangage... :)

-Bill

[BLeonard]

I think BL is almost creepy into this game, but I agree with him on almost all counts regarding everything except his ratings. I guess that makes me a little creepy too then, but people who know me are not surprised by this.

Most people are worse than this when it comes to fantasy football... I won't apologize for wanting to look at Laura Prepon or Jamie Chung's ass, as opposed to Tom Brady or Arian Foster's...

As for the ratings, they're as accurate as they can be, without implementing a "hotness factor." Currently, the only way one could be implemented is if I solely decide the "hotness factor" for each woman. I don't consider my opinion on women to be the end-all be-all decision for judging hotness, as most of my "favorites" haven't even been up for auction yet.

I'd rather have NO hotness factor than have a FLAWED or BIASED one.

-Bill

[chernobylwraiths]

My suggestions:

1. have a definite start finish date
2. have a set amount of players
3. have a set amount of cards
4. large penalty for dropping cards
5. allow trading of cap room (IE if someone wants to trade a card but the person trading for them doesn't want to take the whole cap hit, allow the person trading the card to keep some of the cap hit)

Biggest suggestion, have someone help with the whole process as it is probably difficult enough with the current rules

[TacklingDummy]

So my wife can't play?

[TacklingDummy]

One suggestion I'll make is let us know all the girls that will be up for bid, just not when. Some of us would save cap room if we knew one of the chicks we love is going to be coming out at some point.

If the games 100 days long, let us know the 100 chicks that will be going up at some point.

I cleared cap room hoping Aniston will come up. Don't know if she ever will.

[BLeonard]

My suggestions:

1. have a definite start finish date
2. have a set amount of players
3. have a set amount of cards
4. large penalty for dropping cards
5. allow trading of cap room (IE if someone wants to trade a card but the person trading for them doesn't want to take the whole cap hit, allow the person trading the card to keep some of the cap hit)

Biggest suggestion, have someone help with the whole process as it is probably difficult enough with the current rules

1: Agree. The more I think about it, the more I like my "quarterly cap" proposal... if people burn their cap, they'd be back in the bidding in the next quarter.

2: Then, you risk excluding people. Pretty sure Bedard doesn't want to intentionally exclude anyone.

3: Most weeks, there are 6 (5 days, 1 Flash). Extra cards (such as multiple girl days) shouldn't be discouraged, IMO. It's not like there's 10 cards one week, then 2 the next... It's pretty consistent, with extras popping up every so often.

4: On a $200k cap, $10k is pretty harsh... Also, take into account that the person is out of the bidding for the next two days of auctions.

5: Problem is, the price on the card would then need to be changed, creating more work. Keeping track of who has what cap room could also get tough to follow.

As far as having someone help... as you might have guessed, I keep a simple spreadsheet on the game. It literally takes me 2 minutes a day to update the daily auction(s). I would assume Bedard has some sort of way to track everything as well.

I can also personally say that I have told him multiple times that if he needs someone to host an auction when he's not around, or wants any sort of help, I'd be willing to do whatever he needed.

-Bill

[Slim]

Someone give my ZB's and I'll play.

[BLeonard]

One suggestion I'll make is let us know all the girls that will be up for bid, just not when. Some of us would save cap room if we knew one of the chicks we love is going to be coming out at some point.

If the games 100 days long, let us know the 100 chicks that will be going up at some point.

I cleared cap room hoping Aniston will come up. Don't know if she ever will.

Kinda part of the reason I suggested a "Wild Card" auction on occasion: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=206183

The winner would get to see some of the names on the list, thus giving them a heads-up on some of the names to come.

Also would be an advantage of my "quarterly cap" idea... If you blow your cap quick, you're only out for the rest of that quarter, not the entire year.

But, not knowing who's coming up is part of the risk... With my wild card idea, you'd get a peek at a small portion of the list, but still wouldn't know when they're gonna be up.

I'm not against seeing a portion of the list, but I think you should have to risk something in order for that privledge (hence, winning the wild card auction).

But, if he puts the entire list up on day one, then people will say "Why isn't so-and-so in?"

Now, if he decides to do a draft, I'd suggest he put a list up of, say 50 cards that will be in the game and not eligible for the draft. That way, he can still keep a chunk of "big names" out of a draft and players can pick cards that they want that might not have been on his radar at all.

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

Now, if he decides to do a draft, I'd suggest he put a list up of, say 50 cards that will be in the game and not eligible for the draft.
If we do a Draft I vote BLen having the #1 pick. With his stable of mules there's no doubt he's finishing last.

:snicker:

[YardRat]

No to the 20k bonus.

hydro has a decent idea, but a hard cap of some kind is necessary to try to keep bids down.

The main idea, I believe, was to get the most/best bang for your buck, and without limits there would be far less strategy.

I like the idea (I don't recall who proposed it) of having a shorter season, fewer girls, a preset line-up (the total pool, not an exact schedule of when they go up for bid...that should still be a 'surprise'), and a minimum roster requirement.

The preset line-up doesn't have to be dead nuts either...If your season is going to have 100 auctions, have 125 (or whatever) total pool to draw from.

[BLeonard]

If we do a Draft I vote BLen having the #1 pick. With his stable of mules there's no doubt he's finishing last.

:snicker:

I'll bet me taking Kristen Bell or Jennifer Aniston with that pick would wipe the snicker off of your face...

For the record, I think you're bluffing with Aniston... You cleared cap room to get someone... that much I believe... But, I don't think you'd be foolish enough to announce who you were going after. :duel:

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

For the record, I think you're bluffing with Aniston... You cleared cap room to get someone... that much I believe... But, I don't think you'd be foolish enough to announce who you were going after. :duel:

-Bill

Don't know who I will go after because I don't know who is coming out.

My top 5 list of women in no particular order are, Bell, Wagner, Aniston, Beckinsale, and Brewster.

[BLeonard]

No to the 20k bonus.

hydro has a decent idea, but a hard cap of some kind is necessary to try to keep bids down.

The main idea, I believe, was to get the most/best bang for your buck, and without limits there would be far less strategy.

I like the idea (I don't recall who proposed it) of having a shorter season, fewer girls, a preset line-up (the total pool, not an exact schedule of when they go up for bid...that should still be a 'surprise'), and a minimum roster requirement.

The preset line-up doesn't have to be dead nuts either...If your season is going to have 100 auctions, have 125 (or whatever) total pool to draw from.

That's kind of a mix between mine and TD's ideas... he wants to know the entire lineup on day 1 and I wanted the minimum requirement.

The reasons I don't like the entire list being presented on day 1:

1: People will complain about women that aren't on the list. If say, Halle Berry isn't on, but Hope Solo is, people will say "Hope Solo is on the list, but Halle Berry isn't?" You could swap the names with anyone on and not on the list and it would be a big *****fest of who is and isn't on the list.

2: People would then "target" certain women to bid on, which is fine on the surface... Until someone misses the auction of someone they "targeted" and throws a fit about it.

3: if he releases a list of 125 for a 100 card "season," that means 25 cards won't be used... Another thing people can (and will) complain about.

I still like my idea of a "wild card" day. Winning that type of auction would get the winner a look at a portion of the list, but not all of it.

Again, my problem with a "shorter season" would be that we'd then get the same women up for auction multiple times. if a season is, say, 100 cards long... How many seasons are we gonna see the same card go up for bid time after time?

That's why I like breaking the year down into 4 "quarters," each of which you'd get a set salary cap for. People wouldn't run out of cap space and, if they did, they'd only be out until the start of the next "quarter" and it also allows more women to be introduced into the game.

I'm gonna actually draft up a "proposal" on how to handle everything I've suggested... Hopefully, I'll have it up by the end of the week.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

Don't know who I will go after because I don't know who is coming out.

My top 5 list of women in no particular order are, Bell, Wagner, Aniston, Beckinsale, and Brewster.


Fair enough, although I still think you dropped the ball on Kristen Bell's picture...

I can honestly say, none of the cards I have are in my "Top 5," per se. Hell, I had only even heard of Laura Prepon and Hope Solo before I won them... If I'm being generous, only one of my "Top 5" has even been up for auction. I like a lot of the ones that have been up, but nobody I "HAVE" to have...

Part of the reason I haven't submitted a "wish list" is because, if some women I want are "off the radar" and we have a draft, I certainly don't want to put them "on the radar," until I draft them. :whistling:

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

Fair enough, although I still think you dropped the ball on Kristen Bell's picture...



-Bill
What picture would you of used?

[BLeonard]

What picture would you of used?

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2010/6/3/99%20The%20Force%20Is%20Strong%20With%20This%20One%20_thumb.jpg

That one...

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

eww

[jamze132]

HOW DID BL GET A MILLION Zbs?

[jamze132]

I technically won't even be able to play the next season since I don't have the Zbs unless I asked someone to give me some.

[chernobylwraiths]

I technically won't even be able to play the next season since I don't have the Zbs unless I asked someone to give me some.

This would be another rule.

This is why I think it should be a set amount of teams over shorter cycles, but I think every team entering should receive the cap figure in zbs

[EricStratton]

I think to avoid this the ZB's spent should just be the 200K number and players shouldn't have to cover the number unless they are trading/buying from another player.

You shouldn't be excluded for not collecting ZB's or for not begging for donations.

[BLeonard]

Jamez: I've had them for a while now... Where have you been?

Regarding ZB's: While I agree that not having ZB's shouldn't exclude you from the game, it's really the only tangible thing to transfer between players. You could give everyone "imaginary money," but then, that could potentially lead to arguments about what deals were made and what deals weren't. By using the ZB's, there's a log of them being transferred, so you can easily see if money changed hands or not.

That was another positive of me suggesting having a cap over 3 months... I would imagine it would be easier for Bedard to hand cash out to those who needed it at the end of the 3 month period, so that they could play in the next quarter. The cash that he is paid for card purchases could be banked, collect interest and be redistributed to those who need it at the start of the next quarter.

-Bill

[The King]

I think to avoid this the ZB's spent should just be the 200K number and players shouldn't have to cover the number unless they are trading/buying from another player.

You shouldn't be excluded for not collecting ZB's or for not begging for donations.


No one has to beg... just ask and I'll distribute.

[EricStratton]

No one has to beg... just ask and I'll distribute.



That alone defeats the reason for having the zonebucks in the first place.


Use a 200000 cap and whether the player has the money of not they have to hold true to a 200000 number.

If they want to do outside deals then ZB's get involved but that is with very few players.

[Slim]

No one has to beg... just ask and I'll distribute.

ZB's please.

[jamze132]

No one has to beg... just ask and I'll distribute.
Can I have 1 million ZBs please?

[jamze132]

I think all prospective players in the next game should be known by all, to prevent someone from jumping in the game out of no where when it gets down to the wire.