Stop whining about the refs

[stuckincincy]

I viewed the play from numerous sources. Johnson snagged it. Clements tackled him, and stuck his hand in to try to dislodge it. When Johnson finally hit the ground, the ball contacted the ground. That's the NFL rule - no catch. I don't like that rule, but it exists.

Cripes, BUF was getting whipped at that point. Reasonable doubt would say that BUF would have done nothing with that 1st down.

A valid complaint was the review assistant's re-spot of Dalton's scramble in the final drive. I thought the original spot was short, but that the reviewer's spot was generous. CIN would have gone for it, and likely got it, given the way the 2nd half played out - CIN had 16 first downs, BUF, 4 in the 2nd half.

BUF scored 7 off of a bounce off a wr's shin, and 3 after a 28 yard gain by Roosevelt on a 10 yard deflection. Lady Luck favored the Bills to the tune of 10 points.

I've heard no complaints about the (unflagged) face mask on B. Leonard by Kelsey on his 14 yd scamp that set up the 42 yd fg by Nugent.

Everybody knows that Leonard is an excellent 3rd down specialist. Shame on the DC or the on-field play caller for not taking care.

Special teams did poorly. CIN got 69 yards' worth of field position off of punts, BUF got zero.


Head to toe, this was a team and coaching loss. The OL and DL performance was poor...you square up against a rookie qb, go to a 4 -3 and forget that fancy gap stuff.

Fred J. had to deal with a LB (Howard) that runs a 4.4. So run traps and off-tackle.


Spiller should be cut. He's the new Maybin.

[psubills62]

Do people realize that the rule is that the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains possession the entire time?

And since I haven't seen a single view that shows the ball hitting the ground...I'm doubtful you've found multiple ones.

Buffalo was up by 7...hard to say they were getting "whipped" at that point.

[ServoBillieves]

Who is B. Lenard?

[TMu11]

Who is B. Lenard?

I think he's a member on this board.... no?

[psubills62]

I think he's a member on this board.... no?
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=797

He's probably also Brian Leonard, the 3rd string RB for the Ben-Gals.

Anyone else think that there's something fishy about the name of a team if they don't even have to change the spelling to name their cheerleaders?

[ddaryl]

I'm not going to stop calling out the fact that the refs blew a very obvious catch call and even ignored an obvious replay from multiple angles.

if for no other reason but to bring it to the attention of the NFL and to belittle these hack refs.

BUT It shouldn't be looked at as a negative towards Cincy.. I tip my hat to the Bengals for playing a hard game

[justasportsfan]

Do people realize that the rule is that the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains possession the entire time?


guess not

[justasportsfan]

I viewed the play from numerous sources. Johnson snagged it. Clements tackled him, and stuck his hand in to try to dislodge it. When Johnson finally hit the ground, the ball contacted the ground. That's the NFL rule - no catch. I don't like that rule, but it exists.

.
Dungy said it was a catch but what does he know?


tackle.


Spiller should be cut. He's the new Maybin.

Actually Spiller has more yards/catches/TD's than Maybin has tackles/sacks/int

[Figster]

Do people realize that the rule is that the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains possession the entire time?

And since I haven't seen a single view that shows the ball hitting the ground...I'm doubtful you've found multiple ones.

Buffalo was up by 7...hard to say they were getting "whipped" at that point.
Good post,

Whats even worse, SJ actually appeared to keep his hand in between the ball and the ground from the looks of it.

[madness]

Stop whining about the refs

That's exactly what the NFL expects us to do. Then they'll never have to address there's a problem.

[SquishDaFish]

STOP POSTING because you dont know what your talking about whatsoever. That was a catch. We got ripped off plain and simple. And you should be Cut from this board

[better days]

guess not

Well, I think most people do, especially Bills fans because most are knowledgeable. It is clear Stuck in Cinci however does not.

[Billz_fan]

That's exactly what the NFL expects us to do. Then they'll never have to address there's a problem.

I certainly agree about the catch and understand what your saying however the NFL is not going to do anything anyway. The only places this is being so hotly debated is on Bills fan sites. It was barley mentioned on the post game shows on Sunday and has all but gone away now. The level of outrage right now is probably 1% and all that is Bills fans. The NFL cares not about that now.

[stuckincincy]

Do people realize that the rule is that the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver maintains possession the entire time?

And since I haven't seen a single view that shows the ball hitting the ground...I'm doubtful you've found multiple ones.

Buffalo was up by 7...hard to say they were getting "whipped" at that point.

Look around. It was jumbling in Johnson's right elbow, hit the left hand, then to ground. The NFL site replays, the local (CIN) stations, and the B'gals official site (call bias, if you like).

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Bills-Bengals-Highlights-10211/20f5cbe1-714f-4f97-b3dd-6d6b37a28f63

2:28 on the video.


Lest anybody paint me as a B'gals fan - I've never given them a penny, never went to a game; I lived in another county when the unwashed and not financially liable voted for their pleasure palace.

If it was a catch, do you think that in that half, BUF would have done something with it? It was on the CIN 47 if good.

Any comment on Kelsey's face mask non-call?

[justasportsfan]

Look around. It was jumbling in Johnson's right elbow, hit the left hand, then to ground. The NFL site replays, the local (CIN) stations, and the B'gals official site (call bias, if you like).

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Bills-Bengals-Highlights-10211/20f5cbe1-714f-4f97-b3dd-6d6b37a28f63

2:28 on the video.



looks like a catch to me.

[Forward_Lateral]

I believe it's called the Bert Emmanuel rule.

[stuckincincy]

That's exactly what the NFL expects us to do. Then they'll never have to address there's a problem.

Define the problem.

Refs have to make a call in the blink of an eye..what's the average length of a play after the snap...10 seconds?


Awaiting your solution...

[psubills62]

Look around. It was jumbling in Johnson's right elbow, hit the left hand, then to ground. The NFL site replays, the local (CIN) stations, and the B'gals official site (call bias, if you like).

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Bills-Bengals-Highlights-10211/20f5cbe1-714f-4f97-b3dd-6d6b37a28f63

2:28 on the video.


Lest anybody paint me as a B'gals fan - I've never given them a penny, never went to a game; I lived in another county when the unwashed and not financially liable voted for their pleasure palace.

If it was a catch, do you think that in that half, BUF would have done something with it? It was on the CIN 47 if good.

Any comment on Kelsey's face mask non-call?
I don't see it touching the ground at all in that video. And it's not at 2:28, either. I don't see jumbling (especially considering the other angles I've seen shows the ball not move at all as Clements comes in).

I don't know if Buffalo would have done something with it, but that would have been their second first down on the drive, and they seemed to be getting a decent rhythm going - as Eli Manning said after the 2007 Super Bowl (and his game-winning drive), the first first down is the hardest to get. It seems likely to me that they could have gotten a FG, which would have changed the game significantly.

Nope, because I never saw it. Show me a video and maybe I'll comment. Any comment on the numerous holding non-calls that even I saw from the third row in the end zone stands?

[sqad5]

Yep just like the ****ing Tuck rule ****ing bull mother ****ing ****

[better days]

I believe it's called the Bert Emmanuel rule.

Thats right. The rule states the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver has possession. The Bucs were jobbed in that game.

[better days]

Look around. It was jumbling in Johnson's right elbow, hit the left hand, then to ground. The NFL site replays, the local (CIN) stations, and the B'gals official site (call bias, if you like).

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Bills-Bengals-Highlights-10211/20f5cbe1-714f-4f97-b3dd-6d6b37a28f63

2:28 on the video.


Lest anybody paint me as a B'gals fan - I've never given them a penny, never went to a game; I lived in another county when the unwashed and not financially liable voted for their pleasure palace.

If it was a catch, do you think that in that half, BUF would have done something with it? It was on the CIN 47 if good.

Any comment on Kelsey's face mask non-call?

Well EVERY team has some CHEAP fans.

[Billz_fan]

Was reading this on bb.com. This is the take on it by Chan, Fitz, and George Wilson

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-put-loss-on-themselves-not-officials/18e3381a-6a39-4c88-b135-fb333254a5ef



Though the Johnson incomplete call and Dalton third down conversion appeared to hand the game to the Bengals, head coach Chan Gailey reiterated how Buffalo still had chances to win or extend the game.

“We’ve been in worse situations that that before and played better,” he said. “You’ve got to be able to handle that.”

“I think it had more to do with us flat out not showing up in the second half,” said Fitzpatrick in reference to the controversial calls. “Again I don’t want to take away from what they did because they did some good things on defense and I thought they outplayed us on that side of the ball.”

“This game is about winning the situations,” said George Wilson. “Third down, red zone, two minute. It came down to the late fourth quarter stop that we needed and we didn’t get the job done. So you’ve got to tip your hat to those guys for finishing the ball game.”

[k-oneputt]

Was reading this on bb.com. This is the take on it by Chan, Fitz, and George Wilson

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-put-loss-on-themselves-not-officials/18e3381a-6a39-4c88-b135-fb333254a5ef

All true. Still doesn't change the FACT that the refs blew the calls.

[madness]

Define the problem.

Refs have to make a call in the blink of an eye..what's the average length of a play after the snap...10 seconds?


Awaiting your solution...

The problem is that the officiating has been horrible league wide this season. To compound that problem, it's the same officials repeating these mistakes. I don't know how to spell it out any clearer then by appointing the Red Queen as VP of officiating.

[stuckincincy]

looks like a catch to me.


Do you think it would have mattered if it was?

Folks that yelp about a bang-bang call on the 47, assuming that even though CIN was tanning the BUF offensive hide at the time, that somehow, this was the great moment that would allow a lousy offensive performance to grab the gold - jeeze...

BUF collapsed in the 2nd half. Nobody should paint a nice face on that.

[better days]

The problem is that the officiating has been horrible league wide this season. To compound that problem, it's the same officials repeating these mistakes. I don't know how to spell it out any clearer then by appointing the Red Queen as VP of officiating.

That is what we need! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

[Billz_fan]

All true. Still doesn't change the FACT that the refs blew the calls.

I agree as I said earlier in the thread.

However what you said still does not change the FACT the Bills lost the game and nothing is going to be done about the call.

[trapezeus]

if it stands, the bills take 3 more plays. waste another minute at worst. so that changes the bengals play selection. it changes a lot.

if the bills score as they were developing rhythm, then yes, the game is way different.

i like gailey's comments. "we've been in worse and performed better." great line from the coach. he doesn't let any of the players get away with complaining about it too much.

they just need to show up this coming week.

[stuckincincy]

Well EVERY team has some CHEAP fans.

Expand your point. At first blush, you seem to say that I have to obligate my funds to owners, lest I suffer opprobrium.

If I understand you, I'm a crumb, unless I fork over money to millionaires.

[psubills62]

Since when does poor play by one team excuse poor calls by the refs? That seems to be a theme.

Is there ever a game where a team has literally played perfectly? If not, then I guess the refs are off the hook for every call ever. Why bother paying these guys, since it really doesn't matter if they get it right or not?

[mysticsoto]

Do you think it would have mattered if it was?

Folks that yelp about a bang-bang call on the 47, assuming that even though CIN was tanning the BUF offensive hide at the time, that somehow, this was the great moment that would allow a lousy offensive performance to grab the gold - jeeze...

BUF collapsed in the 2nd half. Nobody should paint a nice face on that.
Ummm...the game ended by 3 pts with mere seconds left.

You're telling me a new 1st down beforehand, approaching field goal range, while gaining momentum and with more clock run down would have likely had zero effect???

At the very least, it might have changed the game to go into overtime...

[k-oneputt]

I agree as I said earlier in the thread.

However what you said still does not change the FACT the Bills lost the game and nothing is going to be done about the call.

Really ? I realize that.

[Billz_fan]

Really ? I realize that.

Of course you do, and in the end this is all that's going to happen from the play. A bunch of folks sitting on a message board playing "what if" and that's exactly what message boards are for. As I said before, The NFL is not going to do anything. This play was barely even mentioned on any Sunday post game show and now it's getting no mention. The 1% that are complaining the NFL will live with. hell they would live with it if it were 20%. The play during the Giants game got way more talk than this catch/no catch play and nothing will be done about that either. It's just part of football and will continue to be.

[k-oneputt]

Because it was the Giants. Sound familiar ? And that call was wrong too.

Is it a coincidence the same teams end up on the wrong side and the same on the rgiht side ? Usually.

[Billz_fan]

Because it was the Giants. Sound familiar ? And that call was wrong too.

Is it a coincidence the same teams end up on the wrong side and the same on the rgiht side ? Usually.

Nah, I don't see it that way. In 50 years of watching sports blown calls are all over the place. Baseball is worse. I could not be a fan if I thought it was fixed I would walk away.

[k-oneputt]

Nah, I don't see it that way. In 50 years of watching sports blown calls are all over the place. Baseball is worse. I could not be a fan if I thought it was fixed I would walk away.

I'm not saying fixed.
I'm saying certain teams are favored or get the benefit of the doubt on calls. Just my opinion, but something I truly beleive.

[Billz_fan]

I'm not saying fixed.
I'm saying certain teams are favored or get the benefit of the doubt on calls. Just my opinion, but something I truly beleive.

Sorry but if Team A is getting the benefit of the doubt on calls that means fix in my head. It means they are not trying to call it fair and one side gets the benefit of the doubt. Just the way I look at it. If it is happening it will come out at some point. One of the guys giving the benefit of the doubt calls will get disgruntled about something and talk. :laughter:

[justasportsfan]

Do you think it would have mattered if it was?

In terms if it would have made a difference in the outcome. Don't know. Don't like woulda,coulda,shoulda. Which is why I havent been arguing much about whether we would have won that game if it the refs didnt screw it up.

It terms of whether we deserved to lose. No . We were horrible. We deserve to lose with the way we played .


But it was still a catch.

[SabreEleven]

Cripes, BUF was getting whipped at that point. Reasonable doubt would say that BUF would have done nothing with that 1st down.


I stopped reading your crap after this line. Weren't the Bills winning when this play happened? Bengals won a last second FG. I wouldn't exactly calling that "getting whipped". Go back to the Bengals board.

[k-oneputt]

Sorry but if Team A is getting the benefit of the doubt on calls that means fix in my head. It means they are not trying to call it fair and one side gets the benefit of the doubt. Just the way I look at it. If it is happening it will come out at some point. One of the guys giving the benefit of the doubt calls will get disgruntled about something and talk. :laughter:

Why ? Refs make good money for a part time job.

[k-oneputt]

NBA official already talked.

[stuckincincy]

if it stands, the bills take 3 more plays. waste another minute at worst. so that changes the bengals play selection. it changes a lot.

if the bills score as they were developing rhythm, then yes, the game is way different.

i like gailey's comments. "we've been in worse and performed better." great line from the coach. he doesn't let any of the players get away with complaining about it too much.

they just need to show up this coming week.


Valid point.

But they were up by 7, it was 3rd and 1, 8:49 left in the 4th, they were at CIN's 47.

Tossing a pass was...dumb. Try a run, perhaps a sneak or roll-out with the mobile Fitz. They ended up punting into the EZ - good, that, given their poor punt coverage so far.

But this wah-wah about catch/no catch irks me. That's how things roll in the NFL. Every team can relate the same crying. Such happens to all.

Bottom line - BUF rolled the dice on a pass and it didn't work. Still waiting for someone to pull up a vid of Kelsay ripping Leonard's facemask...

[TheBrownBear]

Valid point.

But they were up by 7, it was 3rd and 1, 8:49 left in the 4th, they were at CIN's 47.

Tossing a pass was...dumb. Try a run, perhaps a sneak or roll-out with the mobile Fitz. They ended up punting into the EZ - good, that, given their poor punt coverage so far.


Ok, why was a pass attempt dumb? Johnson was open and he clearly caught the ball. It was a good playcall and good execution.

Secondly, you fail to note that the Bills were coming off of a long 75 yard drive for a field goal on the previous possession where they were actually beginning to dictate to the Bengals defense. They were finally in rhythm and they looked like they were well on their way to, at worst, another field goal attempt on that possession. Also, keep in mind that the Bills only had a total of 4 second half possessions, so to have one of them robbed from you by the refs definitely makes an impact in a game where you lose by 3 points.

[zone]

Ok, why was a pass attempt dumb? Johnson was open and he clearly caught the ball. It was a good playcall and good execution.

Secondly, you fail to note that the Bills were coming off of a long 75 yard drive for a field goal on the previous possession where they were actually beginning to dictate to the Bengals defense. They were finally in rhythm and they looked like they were well on their way to, at worst, another field goal attempt on that possession. Also, keep in mind that the Bills only had a total of 4 second half possessions, so to have one of them robbed from you by the refs definitely makes an impact in a game where you lose by 3 points.
It wasn't just one...

This thread is silly to say the least, go back and watch the game again if you think anyone is whining, the tape doesn't lie. People are here stating the facts and the facts are the ref's did everything they could to hand Cincinnati the game and the Bills were not able to overcome a combination of Cincy's D, the ref's, and there own sub par (by this years standards) play.

[stuckincincy]

Since when does poor play by one team excuse poor calls by the refs? That seems to be a theme.

Is there ever a game where a team has literally played perfectly? If not, then I guess the refs are off the hook for every call ever. Why bother paying these guys, since it really doesn't matter if they get it right or not?

Well, It's a stab at some degree of order.



No doubt there are calls made with respect to reputation and $ for the league. An example is the Steelers - the 2005 SB win over SEA - I like to call it the "Jerome Bettis Victory Tour" - was notable. The franchise still gets away with murder, IMO.

And the NBA - Jordan should have been whistled for traveling and palming most every time he touched the ball. If he played against the likes of Chamberlain, Thurmond, Unseld, Cowens, Russell etc., his distinguishing features would be a 9 in. bulge in is throat after the ball was rammed down his throat, as well as two broken forearms.

Back to favoring CIN over BUF by the refs...both have been podunk clubs for over 20 years. I can't see any reason why a crew would favor on over the other.

[stuckincincy]

Well, It's a stab at some degree of order.



No doubt there are calls made with respect to reputation and $ for the league. An example is the Steelers - the 2005 SB win over SEA - I like to call it the "Jerome Bettis Victory Tour" - was notable. The franchise still gets away with murder, IMO.

And the NBA - Jordan should have been whistled for traveling and palming most every time he touched the ball. If he played against the likes of Chamberlain, Thurmond, Unseld, Cowens, Russell etc., his distinguishing features would be a 9 in. bulge in is throat after the ball was rammed down his throat, as well as two broken forearms.

Back to favoring CIN over BUF by the refs...both have been podunk clubs for over 20 years. I can't see any reason why a crew would favor one over the other.

[paladin warrior]

Stuckincicy! Ref was BAD CALLED ..He was catched the ball and his knee was touch the ground.. LOOK at the picture ur freakin MORON!!!Cinn going to big lose Vs 2 game with Pitt and 2 game with Bal and 1 game Tennhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkfaL7WxFYQ/TopWOGiaISI/AAAAAAAAAC8/LZJAV5gs2-Y/s400/stevie1stframe.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkfaL7WxFYQ/TopWOGiaISI/AAAAAAAAAC8/LZJAV5gs2-Y/s1600/stevie1stframe.jpg)

[psubills62]

Guys, just catching the ball and getting a knee down doesn't complete a catch. The receiver has to maintain possession while going to the ground. That being said, it was a catch - Johnson maintained possession the entire time.

[stuckincincy]

Stuckincicy! Ref was BAD CALLED ..He was catched the ball and his knee was touch the ground.. LOOK at the picture ur freakin MORON!!!Cinn going to big lose Vs 2 game with Pitt and 2 game with Bal and 1 game Tennhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkfaL7WxFYQ/TopWOGiaISI/AAAAAAAAAC8/LZJAV5gs2-Y/s400/stevie1stframe.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkfaL7WxFYQ/TopWOGiaISI/AAAAAAAAAC8/LZJAV5gs2-Y/s1600/stevie1stframe.jpg)


That's a nice picture - as the play ended, the ball hit the ground, and the whistle blew.

I'm no fan of the NFL's rules about control and the turf aiding an offensive player. But they reviewed it, and didn't reverse the call.

Sometimes you get bit, sometimes the other team gets bit.

I guess we can speculate that it would have changed the outcome. I just don't think so - BUF fell into the toilet in the 2nd half - they garnered something like 4 or 5 first downs and CIN popped off something like 12.

The special teams on punting coverage did poorly - their returner garnered 69 yards. That's a lot of field position for punt returns.

The Bill's def performance in CIN's last two drives was abysmal. Every team knows that Leonard is a very good, late-game 3rd down player. He has hands of glue, and fights for the extra yard. He's not a particularly good hole picker from the git-go, but if he gets past the LOS, he can juke.

Duh - they tossed him a screen for something like 22 yards in their final drive, and ran him up the middle (rare for their running scheme) for 14. Kelsey's full-hand face mask infraction wasn't called.

The front 3 didn't distinguish themselves with their gap choices. CIN's Leonard comes in late in the game, I go to 4 DLs.