Give Spiller the Ball More.

[BillsWin]

I love that Jackson has been lighting it up and I don't necessarily want to break his momentum by taking away carries. But Spiller has flashed some real good things in his 15 carries. Including a 7.1 yards per attempt and some hard fought third down conversions.

He seems to be more comfortable running in the NFL and behind a line that has performed well, I think giving Spiller some carries would be a good idea.

I am all for Jackson as the lead back. But here we have this explosive talent that seems to be getting better, and we simply don't use him.

It's not a case of the kid not performing so he stops getting chances. It's a case of him not getting chances.

Once again, I am in huge favor of Jackson getting a TON of carries. But Spiller needs to get more work.

[sqad5]

**** yeah

[kelly2reed4six]

I am playing Spiller in fantasy this week as a flex. Partly because I have next to no one else to play, but also because I agree with you here. I don't think freddie will see any less touches than normal, I simply think that we are going to ram the ball down the giants throat running! Spiller is due for a big play!

[RedEyE]

I like the idea of Spiller split wide and that spread offense or in redirect running plays. But Jackson is far better for short yardage runs and pass blocking. Its hard to implement a new factor when in doing so you have to cease what's currently working.

In other words, IMO, if its not broke, don't fix it. Keep giving Jackson the rock.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I'm beginning to wonder how likely it may get that Spiller ends up getting traded? With the way Fred Jackson is running the ball, it's hard to imagine that Spiller ( A former first round draft pick) will want to stick around once his contract runs out. As most players often point out, it is a business after all. JMO

[RedEyE]

I'm beginning to wonder how likely it may get that Spiller ends up getting traded? With the way Fred Jackson is running the ball, it's hard to imagine that Spiller ( A former first round draft pick) will want to stick around once his contract runs out. As most players often point out, it is a business after all. JMO

I don't think he's going anywhere. Jackson might be "the man" currently but he'll be 31 in February and hitting the down slide of his career. This is a two back league and Spiller is in a prime position to take RB 1 if Jackson starts to lose a step or falls to injury.

[MikeInRoch]

4-1. Keep doing what you are doing.

[TacklingDummy]

I'd play Spiller more if he didn't suck and Jackson was playing bad.

[Mski]

I'd player Spiller more if he didn't suck and Jackson was playing bad.thats just it, spiller hasnt sucked this year, then again jackson hasnt even come close to playing bad either

[justasportsfan]

play him more once we're leading by 21 pts.

[TrEd FTW]

I'd player Spiller more if he didn't suck and Jackson was playing bad.

Except Spiller hasn't sucked this year. Albeit, it's a small sample of touches.

[trapezeus]

bills are essentially giving Spiller more time to learn and less wear and tear for when freddie fizzles at somepoint.

spiller won't be traded. the bills don't really have another guy ready to go other than spiller. White seems a little too green to thrust into a major role.

[Night Train]

Change the Give term to Get...as in slot WR or swing passes.

Spiller in open space is a good thing but Fred Jackson should never leave the field unless he's exhausted after a big gain.

[Bulldog]

With as creative as Gailey is supposed to be, I really have a problem with the fact that C.J. has only touched the ball 21 times through five games. I get it that Freddy's playing well, but if the Bills thought enough of Spiller to draft him high in the first round, then you need to find a way to get him involved. Freddy won't be able to carry this offense by himself for an entire season, so the sooner you get C.J. going, the better. This week would be a great time to get him headed in the right direction in light of all the injuries to the WR's.

[madness]

No!... unless it's in the slot.

[Turf]

The problem with giving Spiller time AND the ball is due to the way the game plays out with Freddie in there all the time. The plays will be telegraphed, and CJ has no chance of being open in the flat. If he only comes in when hes going to get used he's not going to be open. If he can't be kept in the game long enough, which he can't be, then it makes it very hard to get him the ball in a good situation. He's a better decoy at this point. I want him returning punts AND kickoffs for the time being instead of throwing a bone to Smith on the kick returns.

[zone]

With as creative as Gailey is supposed to be, I really have a problem with the fact that C.J. has only touched the ball 21 times through five games. I get it that Freddy's playing well, but if the Bills thought enough of Spiller to draft him high in the first round, then you need to find a way to get him involved. Freddy won't be able to carry this offense by himself for an entire season, so the sooner you get C.J. going, the better. This week would be a great time to get him headed in the right direction in light of all the injuries to the WR's.
You know this team does not give a crap about draft status. We are doing what it takes to win you can't give everyone the ball all the time. I am sure Stevie, Nelson, Chandler, Smith, Naaman, and everyone else who has produced would love the ball more.

We are winning everyone gets a chance to contribute when they are called upon, it's a team game and the formula is working, why would we switch it?

[Mr. Pink]

Another first round wasted pick on a guy who won't be here passed his rookie contract.

[Bulldog]

You know this team does not give a crap about draft status. We are doing what it takes to win you can't give everyone the ball all the time. I am sure Stevie, Nelson, Chandler, Smith, Naaman, and everyone else who has produced would love the ball more.

We are winning everyone gets a chance to contribute when they are called upon, it's a team game and the formula is working, why would we switch it?

Do you honestly think Freddy is going to hold up for an entire season at the current pace? I don't. C.J. has been productive in the limited touches he's had, so why not try to get him more involved? Call me crazy, but I'd like as many weapons as possible available at all times. I'm not advocating for dramatically slashing Freddy's touches, but damn, giving Spiller roughly four touches per game isn't going to cut it.

[Bulldog]

Another first round wasted pick on a guy who won't be here passed his rookie contract.

Yeah, what a bust. He's can't beat out a guy that some have said is the most complete back in the game, so he must be a bust.

[Ingtar33]

since jackson is playing like a top 3 back right now... why would you take the ball away from him?

he doesn't fumble (spiller fumbled a lot last year), he blocks, he runs solid routs.... and he runs. until Spiller proves he can compete at jackson's level there is no reason to take the ball away from Jackson.

[Turf]

I have no problem carrying a legit backup HB. I fail to see the problem.

[The King]

I love that some still doubt Jackson.

[mayotm]

With all the suggestions being presented around here, (get Spiller the ball more, get Brad Smith more touches, etc) one would think that the Bills offense has really been struggling.

[stuckincincy]

4-1. Keep doing what you are doing.

Yep. Spiller's distinguishing characteristic is getting flattened. He's Maybin's offensive clone.

I'd like them to try and see if he can squirt through the middle - that might work - if not, he may as well get spattered into the turf there as well as the outside.

Bonus: He gets mashed into bite-size pieces and gets an injury settlement, saving Ralph a bundle.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, what a bust. He's can't beat out a guy that some have said is the most complete back in the game, so he must be a bust.


Apparently you don't understand the difference between wasted pick and bust.

Spiller was at that time and is right now a completely unnecessary and wasted draft choice by this franchise.

He is completely unneeded on this team and brings basically nothing to the offense.

There is absolutely no way he should be here passed his rookie contract barring injury to Fred Jackson.

[MikeInRoch]

The problem with giving Spiller time AND the ball is due to the way the game plays out with Freddie in there all the time. The plays will be telegraphed, and CJ has no chance of being open in the flat.

You know what happened when Oakland thought the same thing? Game winning touchdown.

[Bulldog]

since jackson is playing like a top 3 back right now... why would you take the ball away from him?

he doesn't fumble (spiller fumbled a lot last year), he blocks, he runs solid routs.... and he runs. until Spiller proves he can compete at jackson's level there is no reason to take the ball away from Jackson.

Spiller fumbled a grand total of two times last year, losing one.

[Bulldog]

I love that some still doubt Jackson.

I never doubted Jackson and still don't. I just think C.J. needs more touches.

[YardRat]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between wasted pick and bust.

Spiller was at that time and is right now a completely unnecessary and wasted draft choice by this franchise.

He is completely unneeded on this team and brings basically nothing to the offense.

There is absolutely no way he should be here passed his rookie contract barring injury to Fred Jackson.

Past.

I let it slide the first time in case it was a typo.

[Bulldog]

[QUOTE=FunTimesYaY!]Apparently you don't understand the difference between wasted pick and bust.

Spiller was at that time and is right now a completely unnecessary and wasted draft choice by this franchise.

He is completely unneeded on this team and brings basically nothing to the offense.

There is absolutely no way he should be here passed his rookie contract barring injury to Fred Jackson.[/QUOTE

Spiller will be around long after Jackson is gone. Freddy is no spring chicken. RB's hit the wall really quick in this league.

[YardRat]

Freddie is the man. Keep feeding him the rock. However, that doesn't mean you can't try to get the ball in CJ's hands a couple more times per game, split wide, whatever.

I'd really like to see both of them on the field at the same time a little bit more and let Fitzy swap them in and out of the backfield depending on what he's seeing with the defense.

[Mr. Pink]

Past.

I let it slide the first time in case it was a typo.


My bad. Tired. Need sleepy. :rofl:

[Mr. Pink]

Spiller will be around long after Jackson is gone. Freddy is no spring chicken. RB's hit the wall really quick in this league.

Spillers rookie deal ends in 2015. Freddy is under contract til 2013. If we extend Freddy, and we should, he'll be extended til at least 2017.

That means by the time Spiller is able to be the feature back around here, he's gonna want out long before that to try and get into a feature back role elsewhere sooner.

Problem is Spiller will never be a feature back in this league much like Reggie Bush isn't and much like Eric Metcalf wasn't.

We had no need for a RB in the 2010 draft, but we blew a 1st round choice on one anyways for no reason. Hence my point, wasted pick.

And yeah Fred may be 30 now but he has taken the pounding the average 25 year old NFL RB has. He's got 5 years left in the tank with how he was used in the past. 5 years runs passed Spillers rookie deal.

Now, do you really think in 3 years, based on the Bills extending Jackson like they should, Spiller is going to want to sign another contract here? Not likely.

[RoscoeMagic]

Spillers rookie deal ends in 2015. Freddy is under contract til 2013. If we extend Freddy, and we should, he'll be extended til at least 2017.

What the hell!!!!!!

He'd be 36! Not a chance.

He should be extended through 2014 and that's it. It's not really the length of the contract that he was griping about, but more the amount. If we give him a three/four year extension, but with a very hefty raise, that's all it should take.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'm beginning to wonder how likely it may get that Spiller ends up getting traded? With the way Fred Jackson is running the ball, it's hard to imagine that Spiller ( A former first round draft pick) will want to stick around once his contract runs out. As most players often point out, it is a business after all. JMO

You're crazy. Spiller is slowly learning from freddy. there's no way he gets traded.

[Mahdi]

Apparently you don't understand the difference between wasted pick and bust.

Spiller was at that time and is right now a completely unnecessary and wasted draft choice by this franchise.

He is completely unneeded on this team and brings basically nothing to the offense.

There is absolutely no way he should be here passed his rookie contract barring injury to Fred Jackson.
How old do you think Fred Jackson is? Just because he hasn't taken the same beating other backs his age have doesn't mean age won't affect him.

He will naturally be slower and less explosive over the next 2-3 years. Spiller will have established himself more over that period and should be ready to become his successor.

I am hoping for a Brees/Rivers situation.

[BertSquirtgum]

I feel like the Bills are doing to Spiller, what a lot of teams are doing with quarterbacks drafted to be the successor of their current franchise qb

[BillsFever21]

There is no doubt Spiller wasn't needed and it was another wasted pick at this time. Whether he learns the game and ends up as a feature every down back remains to be seen. He hasn't shown it yet outside of a few good carries against the Raiders.

As far as Jackson goes of course he should be getting most of the touches. Spiller could and should get the ball a little more depending on the situation for a chance of pace and to keep Jackson healthy and not wear him out over the course of the season.

As far as the long term. Whoever said keep Jackson for the next 6 years or so is crazy. It doesn't matter how much he has carried the ball in his career so far. His lack of carries has helped him come into his prime late in his career and be a much better running back at 30 years old then most are but the years will catch up with him.

No matter how little he has been used in a couple years from now when he's 32 or so he will be losing a step and won't be the same RB. That's like saying the age of the person doesn't matter much at all if he hasn't taken much of a beaten. I guess you could throw a 35 year old rookie out there then. He hasn't had any punishment and should be nice and fresh.

Even if Spiller comes around and he's not the starter for a couple more years it will still be a wasted 3 or 4 years. That would give him a year or two left on his contract and we wasted 3 years or so when we could have used a mid round pick for that role instead of the #9 pick.

Just think over the past 5 seasons we have wasted 3 of our first round picks. Lynch was traded in 3 years and was never a big play threat and had issues and then we traded him for basically nothing. A lousy late 4th round pick. The Maybin bust doesn't need an explanation. Then we waste another 1st round pick on a high drafted RB that touches the ball a few times a game on average and still doesn't fully get the NFL game. Plus we have Jackson who you can't take out of the lineup. Either way we didn't need him and was a wasted pick.

Just think if we had a competent front office and them three first round picks was Brian Orakpo instead of Maybin and then a couple other competent players where we might be as a team right now. We could have had another good offensive tackle instead of Lynch or Spiller and maybe another good defensive player.

Then McKelvin didn't pan out for being the 1st CB taken in the draft. Although he has played he hasn't been good and has been a wasted 1st round pick. We had need for a CB. Only if they could have hit on the pick though. Throw in another wasted pick on Hardy when we could also use another good #1/#2 WR to go along with Johnson. There were others too.

Them are basically 3 first round picks we haven't gotten out of to this point, another wasted 2nd round pick that we didn't get anything out of and another 1st round pick who has been average at best. That makes 5 players right there. Even if they would have hit on 3(or even two of them if they were star players) of them we could be a dangerous team right now.

[Cntrygal]

play him more once we're leading by 21 pts.


Especially if there's less than 5 minutes left in the game!

[Mr. Pink]

How old do you think Fred Jackson is? Just because he hasn't taken the same beating other backs his age have doesn't mean age won't affect him.

He will naturally be slower and less explosive over the next 2-3 years. Spiller will have established himself more over that period and should be ready to become his successor.

I am hoping for a Brees/Rivers situation.

Fred is 30 with the average wear and tear a 25 year old NFL RB has.

Someone should have told Emmitt Smith at 35 he was too old to still be the feature back of an NFL offense. Then told Marcus Allen, you're 36, go sit down these TDs are killing us! Hey James Brooks, you're 32 how are you still running for 5 yards a carry?

Meanwhile all of those guys were focal points of their teams offense from the time they were 22-23. So they can get 10 years + wear and tear on their body from being the featured guy and meanwhile you guys don't think Fred can get like 7?

Barry Sanders was 30 when he retired, was thought to be in the prime of his career and thought to have several good years left.

Then again, most of you folks around here thought Marshawn Lynch was the better back 2 years ago, so you doubting a guy who has the wear and tear of a 25 year old back on his body can't possibly be a feature back for 5 more years doesn't surprise me in the least.

The sad part is the 30 year old Fred Jackson is even better than the 28 year old Fred Jackson and still doubters. The only reason Fred Jackson isn't here in 2013 is because the front office dropped the ball and didn't pay the man.

[YardRat]

I am hoping for a Brees/Rivers situation.

What? Jackson goes to another team and wins a Super Bowl?

[Mahdi]

Fred is 30 with the average wear and tear a 25 year old NFL RB has.

Someone should have told Emmitt Smith at 35 he was too old to still be the feature back of an NFL offense. Then told Marcus Allen, you're 36, go sit down these TDs are killing us! Hey James Brooks, you're 32 how are you still running for 5 yards a carry?

Meanwhile all of those guys were focal points of their teams offense from the time they were 22-23. So they can get 10 years + wear and tear on their body from being the featured guy and meanwhile you guys don't think Fred can get like 7?

Barry Sanders was 30 when he retired, was thought to be in the prime of his career and thought to have several good years left.

Then again, most of you folks around here thought Marshawn Lynch was the better back 2 years ago, so you doubting a guy who has the wear and tear of a 25 year old back on his body can't possibly be a feature back for 5 more years doesn't surprise me in the least.

The sad part is the 30 year old Fred Jackson is even better than the 28 year old Fred Jackson and still doubters. The only reason Fred Jackson isn't here in 2013 is because the front office dropped the ball and didn't pay the man.
No one doubts how good Fred Jackson is. Not sure why you keep saying that as if you are his only fan.

[Mahdi]

What? Jackson goes to another team and wins a Super Bowl?
Not that part, but at least for Spiller to become a PB RB for us when Jackson is gone.

[RoscoeMagic]

Fred is 30 with the average wear and tear a 25 year old NFL RB has.

What do you think he was sitting on his ass during college? He got pounded for four years at Coe College, then he got pounded in the Indoor Football league where he ran for 1700 yards and 41 TDs in two years after school. Then in 2006 he got pounded in NFL Europe. And in 2007 he came to the Bills.

Does he have less wear and tear than the average 30 year old RB in the NFL? Yes. Absolutely. 100%. But let's not make it seem like he was just on his couch eating nachos this whole time. He was taking a pounding, albeit not a 16 game 300 carry NFL pounding, but a pounding nonetheless.

No chance in hell, heaven or purgatory he has the wear and tear of a 25 year old. 28 year old? OK, I'll say it's more like that. 3-4 year extension with a big pay raise. That's all it should take. A six year contract? You're out of your ****ing mind. Chris Johnson just signed a 4 year extension a week before he turned 26. You're out of your mind if you think Jackson's getting six years.



The sad part is the 30 year old Fred Jackson is even better than the 28 year old Fred Jackson and still doubters.

I disagree vehemently. He's the same back he's always been. He runs the same, he blocks the same, he catches the same. He's always been a beast. We've just always tried to kick him to the curb because of Lynch and Spiller. If Jackson's been getting 20 carries a game since 2007, he'd be a household name by now. Plus our line is better this year, and Gailey's playcalling certainly doesn't help. But if you ask me, he's always been great, just underutilized. Fred is the same man week in and week out.

[BillsFever21]

Fred is 30 with the average wear and tear a 25 year old NFL RB has.

Someone should have told Emmitt Smith at 35 he was too old to still be the feature back of an NFL offense. Then told Marcus Allen, you're 36, go sit down these TDs are killing us! Hey James Brooks, you're 32 how are you still running for 5 yards a carry?

Meanwhile all of those guys were focal points of their teams offense from the time they were 22-23. So they can get 10 years + wear and tear on their body from being the featured guy and meanwhile you guys don't think Fred can get like 7?

Barry Sanders was 30 when he retired, was thought to be in the prime of his career and thought to have several good years left.

Then again, most of you folks around here thought Marshawn Lynch was the better back 2 years ago, so you doubting a guy who has the wear and tear of a 25 year old back on his body can't possibly be a feature back for 5 more years doesn't surprise me in the least.

The sad part is the 30 year old Fred Jackson is even better than the 28 year old Fred Jackson and still doubters. The only reason Fred Jackson isn't here in 2013 is because the front office dropped the ball and didn't pay the man.

You named a few of the best RB's of all time and only a few because there isn't many that played well or was a feature back at 35 years old. There is many more good RB's that wasn't even playing anymore long before then. Now unless you feel Jackson is on the same level of them handful of all-time greats which I hope not.

You look at 90+ percent of the RB's and even ones that were top RB's when they were young and they started to dry up around 30. Some didn't even make it much past 30 or even to 30. YOu had some that were still decent role players around 32 like Jerome Bettis and then you have many that wasn't even at that level at that age. Guys like Eddie George barely made it past 30 let alone still being a productive starter. And last I checked Emmitt Smith wasn't a major feature back when he was still 35. He was a shadow of his former self heading for Arizona for a short time.

Jackson doesn't have the wear and tear so his body isn't like a normal 30 year old RB right now but either way age is going to catch up to him. I guess if you assume he will be one of them rare breeds where he is still a top RB in the league when he's in his mid 30's then I guess that would be correct in a perfect world.

RB's are a dime a dozen outside of a few great ones that can do it for years and into their early to mid 30's. Even the best by their mid 30's were either a shadow of themselves or just role players by then. Fred Jackson at 33 or so isn't going to be the same Fred Jackson as he is at 30.

Either way Spiller was a wasted pick even if he ends up starting and being a decent RB in a couple years or so and we kept him around. That is about 4 years you wasted on a part-time RB when the pick could have been used for something else and you could have drafted a RB several years after that to take the helm by that point.

There is a reason why most RB's start from just about day one as a rookie. It's the easiest position to step in and play out of college, most are a dime a dozen and they have less of a shelf life so teams play them right away.

There is also a reason why most starting RB's especially top notch ones want a new contract or hold out for one after 2 or 3 years in the league while they are still in their rookie contract. Most of them only get the chance for that one big contract and after their 5 year rookie deal they are already 27=/- and won't get that huge long-term deal then because they start breaking down by 30 if not sooner for a lot of them and they won't be every down RB's at that same level for much longer after that.

You have your few rare exceptions and that is it. And when I say a few it's literally a few. As good as Jackson has been he most likely is not one of them rare breeds.

[BertSquirtgum]

fred needs to be signed so that he is with the Bills for three more years beyond this year and paid 5 million a year.

[RedEyE]

I also think Spiller is used more as a scatback in Gailey's offense, much like Reggie Bush was utilized in New Orleans. I don't think he will ever take the full load with the exception of Jackson going down to injury.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't think you go into a game with a plan to give one player more opportunities.
If, during the flow of the game, the opportunity presents itself, then you give that guy the ball because it looks like a good call at that time.
If there is a better play and players better capable of executing that play, you don't try to force the use of a different player because it looks good on paper. You use the better player, which is, in this case, Jackson.

[Mr. Pink]

My whole point is running back shelf life is cut shorter than other players because of the wear and tear their body gets from being pounded on 275-325 times a season. Fred hasn't had that. So to expect him not to be able to produce at a high level for 5 more years is asinine.

5 more years takes him passed Spillers rookie contract. I doubt Spiller resigns with us if Fred is kept around to sit on the bench longer. Honestly it wouldn't shock me to see Spiller want out if Fred is extended.

Of course all of what I said is moot if the front office drops the ball and lets Fred walk after next year.

[kishoph]

The problem with giving Spiller time AND the ball is due to the way the game plays out with Freddie in there all the time. The plays will be telegraphed, and CJ has no chance of being open in the flat. If he only comes in when hes going to get used he's not going to be open. If he can't be kept in the game long enough, which he can't be, then it makes it very hard to get him the ball in a good situation. He's a better decoy at this point. I want him returning punts AND kickoffs for the time being instead of throwing a bone to Smith on the kick returns.

This is a problem with SPILLER not seeing the field much, when he does get carries the Defense is usually keyed on him because when he's in he usually gets the ball, this is why so many of his runs are blown up in the backfield. I'd like to see a little more 2 backs sets with SPILLER and JACKSON, both are very capable of flanking out into the receiving game. Make teams guess a little more.

[Turf]

I think Fred has a couple more years left, and should be paid for his present and past accomplishments for this team. He deserves better monetarily.

[Oaf]

I disagree vehemently. He's the same back he's always been. He runs the same, he blocks the same, he catches the same. He's always been a beast. We've just always tried to kick him to the curb because of Lynch and Spiller. If Jackson's been getting 20 carries a game since 2007, he'd be a household name by now. Plus our line is better this year, and Gailey's playcalling certainly doesn't help. But if you ask me, he's always been great, just underutilized. Fred is the same man week in and week out.


:clap:
Excellent post my friend.

[TacklingDummy]

You named a few of the best RB's of all time and only a few because there isn't many that played well or was a feature back at 35 years old.

Since Action Jackson is only 30, there's no need to worry about being 35 years old for another 5 years. Sign the guy for 5 years and worry about being 35 at the end of the contract.

One thing about Action Jackson, I've never seen him take a hard hit.

[Figster]

Since Action Jackson is only 30, there's no need to worry about being 35 years old for another 5 years. Sign the guy for 5 years and worry about being 35 at the end of the contract.

One thing about Action Jackson, I've never seen him take a hard hit.

Fred Jackson is a punishing runner and more often then not is delivering a hard hit, not taking one.

Gailey will find ways to keep CJ happy...

[YardRat]

If the Bills win today, Spiller will have a big game (by his standards).

[TacklingDummy]

FRIGG SPILLER, ACTION JACKSON IS THE MAN

[sqad5]

Give spiller the ball more,we all ****ing know freddy is good