Lay the blame where it belongs.....

[HAMMER]

..on our crap defense, they flat out suck. I can't believe the number of people bagging on Fitz in here, it disappoints me greatly. He made two bad throws, one should never have been called. You DON'T throw the ball when you are in position to grind the clock and kick a game winning FG. You have a top shelf back who doesn't fumble, you DO NOT throw the ball. Without all the turnovers we have gotten, this team is closer to 2-4 because of the shnit DEFENSE. No if, ands, or buts.

[G Wolly]

Fair enough.

But the defense didn't throw those 2 picks.

[Skooby]

There is no one to blame because both sides of the ball helped & hurt us.

[HAMMER]

Fair enough.

But the defense didn't throw those 2 picks.

No, but they did let the Giants move the ball at will. If you can't see how bad they are then you aren't watching.

[SpillerThrills]

Fair enough.

But the defense didn't throw those 2 picks.


no, but they did drop a sure pick that would have stopped NY from kicking the game winning field goal.

[HAMMER]

There is no one to blame because both sides of the ball helped & hurt us.

When you score 24 points on the road you should win, nothing more to say. The offense is CLEARLY not the problem.

[kingJofNYC]

D has been a problem every single week except week 1, it's a given at this point. If they're not getting turnovers the team is toast.

[Skooby]

When you score 24 points on the road you should win, nothing more to say. The offense is CLEARLY not the problem.

Since the offense only scored 20 against Cincy, I guess you're clearly right :birds:

[HAMMER]

Since the offense only scored 20 against Cincy, I guess you're clearly right :birds:

I am right.

[Skooby]

I am right.

Mathematically, the offense failed to reach your road goal against Cincy. Therefore they clearly failed to perform, that's debunks your statement. Please think about it.

[zone]

Everyone thought Merriman being out would help us... wrong.

Williams being out hurt us the most.

[Crisis]

Everyone thought Merriman being out would help us... wrong.

Williams being out hurt us the most.

yeah because the D was so good with them in...

[kingJofNYC]

Williams hasn't done much this year, but yeah we needed him out there today. He's been battling that leg since preseason, probably the reason he hasn't been playing at last years pace.

[BillyT92679]

I LOOOOOOOVE Fitz but even think that pass was partially him. The other part was the dumb playcall by Chan. Still this d sucked a fat one with no pressure on Eli today. The Bills desperately need a 9 route running WR. They lack it with Jones out.

[HAMMER]

Mathematically, the offense failed to reach your road goal against Cincy. Therefore they clearly failed to perform, that's debunks your statement. Please think about it.

What are you talking about? My statement was when you score 24 on the road you should win. If you don't then the defense gets the blame. We scored 20 against Cincy and lost by 3, had we scored 24 we win. Clear enough?

[YardRat]

I don't blame anybody for the play call...that's part of the 'play to win' mentality versus 'play to not lose'. It was simply a terrible throw by Fitz, off of his back foot. He was harassed more than usual today, granted, but you still have to step into those throws, especially in critical situations.

As far as the defense, they actually were doing pretty well against the run today up until Bradshaw broke the long one on the Giants last drive but the pass defense continues to be pathetic. That's the direct result of piss-poor game-planning and lack of talent on the corners mostly, but today part of it was also NY taking advantage of Davis being a liability against the pass. He got flat-out abused just about every time he was on the field.

[Skooby]

What are you talking about? My statement was when you score 24 on the road you should win. If you don't then the defense gets the blame. We scored 20 against Cincy and lost by 3, had we scored 24 we win. Clear enough?

Your statement here is where I have an issue, I beg to differ & so do you.




The offense is CLEARLY not the problem.

[Dr. Lecter]

The play call was not bad. They have been aggressive all year. It was a bad pass. Johnson was open.

He has to make that pass and score the 6.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't blame anybody for the play call...that's part of the 'play to win' mentality versus 'play to not lose'. It was simply a terrible throw by Fitz, off of his back foot. He was harassed more than usual today, granted, but you still have to step into those throws, especially in critical situations.

As far as the defense, they actually were doing pretty well against the run today up until Bradshaw broke the long one on the Giants last drive but the pass defense continues to be pathetic. That's the direct result of piss-poor game-planning and lack of talent on the corners mostly, but today part of it was also NY taking advantage of Davis being a liability against the pass. He got flat-out abused just about every time he was on the field.


The pass rush (or lack thereof) is a bigger problem than the corners.

[Novacane]

no, but they did drop a sure pick that would have stopped NY from kicking the game winning field goal.


Did you even see the replay. Mckelvin reached in with his right hand to knock that pass away. It was not a dropped INT unless you expect him to make 1 handed INT's.

[Novacane]

The play call was not bad. They have been aggressive all year. It was a bad pass. Johnson was open.

He has to make that pass and score the 6.


Thank you! All you guys saying it was a bad call are crazy. The call worked. It should have been a TD. Players have to execute!

[Meathead]

sh|t happens

it was a bad pass for sure but fitz is the top reason the team is where its at so i cant dog him too much. every qb in history has bad games every season, this was his first one, and other than the two underthrown picks it wasnt even that bad at all

note: fitz is currently over 66% compl pcent for the season (!). i didnt think he would be able to break 60-ish% for the entire season but if he can keep this up the entire year, along with his traditional td/int ratio, he absolutely has to be considered franchise material. the compl% was always the thing holding him back, if he really has fixed that then the bills must consider him the man

defense is admittedly starting to concern me. either they have to stiffen up or they have to keep getting the takeaways cuz without the latter they are just not sturdy enough to overcome a couple bad throws, which a good team has to have regardless of who you have taking snaps. however, the defensive injuries are giving development time to the rotational guys so in the long run it will make the unit stronger

as long as this team doesnt blow it and makes the playoffs from here i will be happy. realistically, they just dont have the team yet to be a real contender, but you typically have to lose in the postseason before you win there. so playoffs or bust this season, and then hopefully next season is when the good poop really hits the fan

[Skooby]

Thank you! All you guys saying it was a bad call are crazy. The call worked. It should have been a TD. Players have to execute!

We lost in all kinds of phases today, so pegging one as a bigger one than another is a problem. No turnovers today & we lose was about the only thing we missed.

[ZEUS]

I like the score touchdown mentality. It sucks Fitz threw the pick. But he does more to win games than to loose them. He's a good QB. This defense is better against the run than last year. But, they still give up way too many plays. Because of the "D" I think we're still a season away from the playoffs.

[BertSquirtgum]

This loss belongs to Fitz. The defense played poorly but they didn't completely blow the game.

[Skooby]

This loss belongs to Fitz. The defense played poorly but they didn't completely blow the game.

How exactly did Fitz's INT blow the game ?? Would we have scored for sure or even had a chance to try & re-tie it ??

Fitz had multiple great throws & he underthrew a few balls, these things happen. No one is perfect & he was under pressure today, it was a tough road for our O-line to play against. The bye came at the perfect time for us.

[BertSquirtgum]

How exactly did Fitz's INT blow the game ?? Would we have scored for sure or even had a chance to try & re-tie it ??

Fitz had multiple great throws & he underthrew a few balls, these things happen. No one is perfect & he was under pressure today, it was a tough road for our O-line to play against. The bye came at the perfect time for us.

must i really bring up the fact that he cost the bills the field goal? He caused this loss in more way the one.

[Skooby]

must i really bring up the fact that he cost the bills the field goal? He caused this loss in more way the one.

We weren't in the redzone yet, what's to say he didn't get sacked out of FG range & we punted in the endzone to give the Giants the ball at the 20 (where they ended up after the INT).

What happened if the Giants had a pick 6 or stripped a ball or we fumbled the ball there, then would we have had a FG chance ? Being at the 27 & kicking a FG assures nothing, see SB XXV versus the Giants (Ironically).

[BertSquirtgum]

The defense played like trash, as usual, but they had a big stop when they needed it. They needed the rest. Then Chan trying to be too cute calls a pass on a 1st down in the giants end. Then stinky fitzpatrick throws ANOTHER bad pass on the exact same play that was intercepted earlier in the game. Giving the defense about a 1.5 minute rest.

[BertSquirtgum]

Quarterbacks have bad games, i understand that. But all the fitz butt lickers need to realize that he is the sole reason this game was lost. I still think he can be the quarterback the Bills need but he needs to come back after the bye and prove that these past three weeks of stinky play are behind him and that he is the real deal that everyone thought he was in the first three games.

[Skooby]

The defense played like trash, as usual, but they had a big stop when they needed it. They needed the rest. Then Chan trying to be too cute calls a pass on a 1st down in the giants end. Then stinky fitzpatrick throws ANOTHER bad pass on the exact same play that was intercepted earlier in the game. Giving the defense about a 1.5 minute rest.

Stevie was one on one, I think you take your chances throwing to him & locking the game down. DJ would of set up for the FG, I couldn't take that type of mentality again.

[Skooby]

Quarterbacks have bad games, i understand that. But all the fitz butt lickers need to realize that he is the sole reason this game was lost. I still think he can be the quarterback the Bills need but he needs to come back after the bye and prove that these past three weeks of stinky play are behind him and that he is the real deal that everyone thought he was in the first three games.

The Giants 414 total yards didn't help us much either.

[Dr. Lecter]

This loss belongs to Fitz. The defense played poorly but they didn't completely blow the game.
It was more than Fitz

This insane idea that the loss is all on one person has to stop.

[BertSquirtgum]

I like the killer instinct but why try that play on first down. why did gailey abandon the run in the second half? i said this in an earlier thread. 80% fitz's fault 20% gailey's.

[Dr. Lecter]

I like the killer instinct but why try that play on first down. why did gailey abandon the run in the second half? i said this in an earlier thread. 80% fitz's fault 20% gailey's.
And you are wrong

400 + yards given up by the defense. No pass rush.

One DB gave up a 60 yard pass and was called for 3 PIs.

And there was nothing wrong with that call. Johnson was open. It was a bad pass.

[Skooby]

I like the killer instinct but why try that play on first down. why did gailey abandon the run in the second half? i said this in an earlier thread. 80% fitz's fault 20% gailey's.

DJ sets up for that FG & gives the Giants a chance to go ahead, Chan / Fitz's go for the throat. Pick a way to play & stick with it, the defense hadn't done much to help today as well. It was a team loss.

[Dr. Lecter]

Quarterbacks have bad games, i understand that. But all the fitz butt lickers need to realize that he is the sole reason this game was lost. I still think he can be the quarterback the Bills need but he needs to come back after the bye and prove that these past three weeks of stinky play are behind him and that he is the real deal that everyone thought he was in the first three games.
Saying he is the sole reason they lost is dumb and a complete lack of actually watching or understanding the game.

[Syderick]

yeah because the D was so good with them in...


Kyle Williams is a good DT, and him being out didn't help.

[Dr. Lecter]

Kyle Williams is a good DT, and him being out didn't help.
And since about week 8 of last year Kelsay has been a productive player. Missing him did not help either

[Skooby]

And since about week 8 of last year Kelsay has been a productive player. Missing him did not help either

Goodtime for a bye-week.

[Spiderweb]

Quarterbacks have bad games, i understand that. But all the fitz butt lickers need to realize that he is the sole reason this game was lost. I still think he can be the quarterback the Bills need but he needs to come back after the bye and prove that these past three weeks of stinky play are behind him and that he is the real deal that everyone thought he was in the first three games.

Florence was toasted repetitively and then he presses and get hit with two stupid PI's. He needs to share the loss with Fitz .

[Night Train]

It's a combination of both but the D is getting shredded every week, completely dependent on turnovers.

Fitz is gritty but limited. I still see a QB drafted early next April.

That's who we are. The blame game is for blind fanboys.

[Jan Reimers]

More than any other problem, we have no pass rush. And we will not win consistently without one. Pressure on Manning would have made this a much different game.

With our totally non-existent pass rush, we will be very fortunate to finish 8-8.

[methos4ever]

More than any other problem, we have no pass rush. And we will not win consistently without one. Pressure on Manning would have made this a much different game.

With our totally non-existent pass rush, we will be very fortunate to finish 8-8.
As much as the board loves Moats and Batten, it doesn't matter who the DC is, there is no pressure. So 3-4, 4-3, there was nothing. Rex Ryan could have had this defense and still had the same issues.

I will say with Merriman and Williams, the turnovers were there, so pressure can return.

Think of it this way - on several of the picks we've gotten, the QB was either hit or threw before he got hit. Would you rather have 4-5 more sacks or those 4-5 picks?

[k-oneputt]

i'll still take Merriman over Moats and Batten.

[mysticsoto]

i'll still take Merriman over Moats and Batten.

You're crazy!

Batten had contain on run all day. In fact, in an early possession, I think it was the 1st hold called on the Giants...it was Batten who was held, or would have had perfect contain on Bradshaw.

Merriman has been doing adequate in run support, but not much of anything else. At this point, I'd take Moats & Batten over him as they are young and can still get even better!

[Philagape]

The are few things as indicative of Dumb Fan Syndrome than trying to lay the blame on one factor in a three-point loss. That perpetuates the stereotype of couch potatoes playing MMQB in their mom's basements, Internet crazies and talk-radio lunatics.

Fitz's INTs?
No pass rush?
Secondary failures?
Injuries?
ALL OF THE ABOVE

[Jan Reimers]

The are few things as indicative of Dumb Fan Syndrome than trying to lay the blame on one factor in a three-point loss. That perpetuates the stereotype of couch potatoes playing MMQB in their mom's basements, Internet crazies and talk-radio lunatics.

Fitz's INTs?
No pass rush?
Secondary failures?
Injuries?
ALL OF THE ABOVE
Call me any of your names, but the complete lack of a pass rush was the biggest factor in this loss, by far.

[mysticsoto]

Call me any of your names, but the complete lack of a pass rush was the biggest factor in this loss, by far.

Not only that, but this is not a 1 game occurrence - which to me is the big deal. This has been consistent the entire season. I keep saying that there is no way you can allow 450 yds to opponents and expect to win games. We were getting lucky with all the INTs happening, but realistically, without those INTs, we'd be more like 2-4. And while some may argue that our D cause those INTs...alot of it involves luck also.

I know we had key people out this wk, but even previously, our Pass Rush has just not been there the way we need it to be to not put so much pressure on what appears to be a slightly under avg secondary.

[Philagape]

Call me any of your names, but the complete lack of a pass rush was the biggest factor in this loss, by far.

You said "biggest" and not "only" like some are, so I don't have as much a problem with that. The point is, in a close loss, any one of several factors could have changed the outcome, so there's little point in ranking them.

[Jan Reimers]

I really think our ineffective pass rush was a major cause of the pass interference penalties and other secondary breakdowns. Manning is not nearly as good when he is pressured.

I believe we could have weathered Fitz's interceptions had we gotten a few picks or sacks of our own, instead of allowing Manning all the time in the world to hit his receivers.

[Spiderweb]

..on our crap defense, they flat out suck. I can't believe the number of people bagging on Fitz in here, it disappoints me greatly. He made two bad throws, one should never have been called. You DON'T throw the ball when you are in position to grind the clock and kick a game winning FG. You have a top shelf back who doesn't fumble, you DO NOT throw the ball. Without all the turnovers we have gotten, this team is closer to 2-4 because of the shnit DEFENSE. No if, ands, or buts.

Can't disagree with you more as for whether the Bills should have thrown that pass to Stevie with a bit over 4 minutes to go. That was not a real deep pass. Stevie has single coverage, and had his man beat. Bottom line, it was there and Fitz putz'ed that one away. That was ALL on Fitz. I take that call every time. It was a good call and the right one.

As for running the ball and settling for an FG, I would say in this day and age, settling for FG's is a losers bet, unless there's 3 seconds left on the clock. We did that a few years back against Cleveland and Lindell missed the kick. The Cowboys did exactly what you asked for and lost the game to the Pats.

Fitz should not be blamed totally for the loss either. Florence and our lack of a pass rush were equal contributors for the loss.

[ddaryl]

Our D during the last 5 games we played

28 ppg allowed.
462 ypg allowed.

Our O is more then capable.. Our D is a disaster in the stats column