If Dareus Pans Out at NT and Kyle Comes Back

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I know Kyle just signed a big contract. But let's face it, the staff intend on running 3-4 and have drafted so consistently.

Kyle Williams can net us a low 1st round pick. We just might get a QB we want to develop in those spots.

Of course, it depends on Dareus and the rest DL to play well. For two years, Nix tried to rebuild our D-Line and we are sort of seeing it now. Carrington, Dareus, Edwards. With a depth of Troup, Heard, and Spencer Johnson (who is a better fit at 3-4 DE). We are seeing the change of the guards here.

[jamze132]

Easy killer.

I would rather have 2 Pro Bowl caliber DTs than 1. I'm sure most teams would too.

[Mahdi]

I know Kyle just signed a big contract. But let's face it, the staff intend on running 3-4 and have drafted so consistently.

Kyle Williams can net us a low 1st round pick. We just might get a QB we want to develop in those spots.

Of course, it depends on Dareus and the rest DL to play well. For two years, Nix tried to rebuild our D-Line and we are sort of seeing it now. Carrington, Dareus, Edwards. With a depth of Troup, Heard, and Spencer Johnson (who is a better fit at 3-4 DE). We are seeing the change of the guards here.
Heard was playing NT though. Dareus was at DE.

[Bangarang]

Heard was playing NT though. Dareus was at DE.

Dareus started at NT and played much of the game there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why trade Williams? Keep them both obviously....

[SquishDaFish]

Hell NO! Williams can play DE. NEVER trade either of them. Both elite

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Kyle Williams is elite at 4-3 under tackle. I don't know that he is elite at 3-4 NT.

So when the Bills go to 4-3 mode, he'll be at his best. But we know the majority of the time, we are playing 3-4.

The way I see it, this team is continue to draft 3-4 players and I certainly see the focus will be on linebacker positions the next draft. people like Kelsay will be gradually phased out.

Kyle Williams is a pro-ball player, just not at his best for the system the Bills deploy and I don't think he's a player you build your defense on. Dareus is potentially one, though.

We'll see how the staff use Kyle Williams. I know Belichick in NE mixed up his staple of DT/DE very well during their peak years. I just know so far in the first 5 games, our D-line was not as effective as we had hoped.

[clumping platelets]

I would only consider trading Kyle Williams if we got a player of equal value in return at a position of need (LB, OL, DB, etc)

[Philagape]

I think we're overconcerned about players being categorized in certain positions. The Bills this year have shown a lot of looks on the line, a lot of player combos.
I don't see how anyone can call them a prototypical 3-4, with all the times the outside "linebackers" have been on the line on all fours.

[Ebenezer]

Amen. Half of the league is using a 3-4 variant that actually puts the equivilant of four DL on the field. The Bills are technically playing a 5-2 with 2 standing ends (which is actually a varient on an older style of defense). The NT in essence is a NG with two DTs and two standing DEs. If it works they could wear pink tutus for all I care.

[OpIv37]

And there's no way we'd get a 1st round pick for Kyle anyway.

The only team that trades first-round picks for existing players is the Oakland Raiders, and they're out of first-round picks until like 2020.

[methos4ever]

Kyle Williams is elite at 4-3 under tackle. I don't know that he is elite at 3-4 NT.

So when the Bills go to 4-3 mode, he'll be at his best. But we know the majority of the time, we are playing 3-4.

The way I see it, this team is continue to draft 3-4 players and I certainly see the focus will be on linebacker positions the next draft. people like Kelsay will be gradually phased out.

Kyle Williams is a pro-ball player, just not at his best for the system the Bills deploy and I don't think he's a player you build your defense on. Dareus is potentially one, though.

We'll see how the staff use Kyle Williams. I know Belichick in NE mixed up his staple of DT/DE very well during their peak years. I just know so far in the first 5 games, our D-line was not as effective as we had hoped.
We can still run 3-4 over and under and use both Dareus at NT and Kyle at 3 tech and be a penetrating 3-4 like Wade had here. No trade needed. If anything we get more pressure!

[Skooby]

Trading away a pro-bowl player in a hope that a different / better player can be drafted at another position ? Are you kidding me here ?

[Saratoga Slim]

Guys, Kyle Williams made the Pro Bowl last year in our current system. Let's not translate this year's performance, while he's been playing hurt, into evidence that he can't perform at a top level in our system. To me, he's already proven he can. And he's still young.

Kyle Williams is not a guy you trade for a draft pick.

[Pinkerton Security]

What makes you think we can get a 1st rounder for Kyle? When Shaun Rogers was at the top of his game and was one of the dominant DT's in the NFL, the compensation was a 3rd rounder and leigh bodden. I dont think we'd get anything close to a 1st and prolly not even a 2nd rounder.

Just because we have 2 good players at 1 position doesnt mean we need to trade one of them. Also, Dareus can play 3-4 end so I personally think it would be terrible to trade away one of our most consistent players, and one that seems to actually want to be in Buffalo.

[Night Train]

The hell with picks. You either keep him and run a 4-3 or trade him for a front line starter.

Williams is not a 3-4 NT. Too small and gets washed out on most running plays.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Didn't we just give Kyle an extension? Keep him.

[trapezeus]

i'm all for piling on the "why cut our depth" arguement. But i think a trade becomes an option if the medical staff says, "williams needs to be shut down this season and frankly the "spurs" are a bigger issue."

I have my doubts about williams coming back this year despite what you hear. if i'm in the GM chair, i'd consider the williams trade if i really don't think he's coming back into his earlier form.

[BertSquirtgum]

trade kyle williams? you're crazy :crazy:

[DraftBoy]

You're not getting a 1st for him so I dont see a reason to trade him.

[k-oneputt]

You're not getting a 1st for him so I dont see a reason to trade him.

At best your getting a 3rd. Keep him. You never have enough quality d-linemen.

[dannyek71]

Yea, let's talk about trading probably our best player after a single game against an awful QB/OL.

[Mahdi]

I think we're overconcerned about players being categorized in certain positions. The Bills this year have shown a lot of looks on the line, a lot of player combos.
I don't see how anyone can call them a prototypical 3-4, with all the times the outside "linebackers" have been on the line on all fours.
Because how a player sits in his stance does not indicate formation.

D.Ware stands up a lot and also rushes out of 4 point stances. Doesn't change the look of the defense.

[Philagape]

Because how a player sits in his stance does not indicate formation.

D.Ware stands up a lot and also rushes out of 4 point stances. Doesn't change the look of the defense.

It renders terms like formation irrelevant. Ware is not a 300-pounder like Carrington and Spencer Johnson, who are being called "linebackers." When a 300-pounder is right up on the line in a four-point stance, who cares if he's called a linebacker, or if it's technically a "3-4"? It's just semantics.

[DesertFox24]

Really this is a crazy thread and a crazy idea.

Buddy Nix has said he is trying to get the most talented 53 he can, so lets trade an under 30 DT who is a pro bowler?

Come on now, as another poster said we are a base 34 scheme but with Dareus and Williams we can align in different alignments and do different things. Also in nickle packages we go to 4 man fronts anyway.

NO TRADE. Look what trading good players did to the pats Defense.

Imagine if Kyle can get healthy now that Dareus is playing well, he can rest up and maybe be back for a late playoff push, or even the playoffs.

[Ebenezer]

It renders terms like formation irrelevant. Ware is not a 300-pounder like Carrington and Spencer Johnson, who are being called "linebackers." When a 300-pounder is right up on the line in a four-point stance, who cares if he's called a linebacker, or if it's technically a "3-4"? It's just semantics.

I used to have this discussion with my brother all the time. When the Bills were playing a 4-3 and couldn't get pressure he used to say that they should run the 3-4. Previous to yesterday, when they didn't get pressure and were running a "3-4" he wanted them to switch to a 4-3. I've been telling him all along that sometimes you need to bring more and capable bodies, not necessarily how you line up. Football arose from soccer and used many of the lineups and terms (full back, half back, etc). During the "gridiron" days they learned you couldn't stop a team by putting more than 5 guys in a down position primarily because defenses played "response". In 2011, it doesn't matter how you line them up. Formation = fashion. Defensives don't just "respond" they do "attack". These days, it is how many you bring and how you bring them that counts.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I know Kyle just signed a big contract. But let's face it, the staff intend on running 3-4 and have drafted so consistently.

Kyle Williams can net us a low 1st round pick. We just might get a QB we want to develop in those spots.

Of course, it depends on Dareus and the rest DL to play well. For two years, Nix tried to rebuild our D-Line and we are sort of seeing it now. Carrington, Dareus, Edwards. With a depth of Troup, Heard, and Spencer Johnson (who is a better fit at 3-4 DE). We are seeing the change of the guards here.Your talking about getting rid of an all pro NT because Dareus had a good game against a horrible Washington Oline? I'd slow that role a bit. You might have a different opinion after the Jets game. They are not the Redskins. Also, don't get your hopes up about the Bills drafting a QB, even as a development pick. That's not likely to happen for at least the next 2 years.

[Spiderweb]

Dareus started at NT and played much of the game there.

As the game wore on, Heard was getting more snaps at NT than Dareus. Yet, I loved the push he was getting early at NT, driving the Redskins interior line back into Beck's lap with some decent consistency.

However, the Jets and Mangold particularly pose much stronger competition as I suspect our pass rush will come back to earth quickly this coming Sunday.

[Oaf]

Not sure this is the right thread but.. 9 sacks.. while the "Lights were Out". Whouda thunk?

[Ebenezer]

Not sure this is the right thread but.. 9 sacks.. while the "Lights were Out". Whouda thunk?

Just remember: The Washington OL sucks. It could get beaten by the best college teams.

[BillsFever21]

There is no way you would get a 1st for Kyle Williams. IF you were lucky it would be a second round pick and most likely a 3rd round pick.

You would know after we sign him to a contract extension he gets injured and who the hell knows when he will be back.

The big waste of money was Merriman. I thought it was at the time and it proved out to be. We wasted away millions of dollars on a player that was a shadow of his old steroid playing self and couldn't stay healthy. Them millions he got this year could have went towards Stevie Johnson or Freddie Jackson.

[thenry20]

Easy killer.

I would rather have 2 Pro Bowl caliber DTs than 1. I'm sure most teams would too.

Xactly!

It's funny how people forget what Pat Williams and Ted Washington once did for this team.

We had the #1 D in 1999. Oh ya, that's right "fans" would like to credit a certain midget for that feat. :laughing:

[alnilla]

Mine as well package Freddie Stevie and Fitz too after they get their new contracts maybe we can get 3 first round's and a 2nd!!!!