Is It Safe To Say Moats...

[Night Train]

..is the Maybin we never saw ?

[TacklingDummy]

..is the Maybin we never saw ?
Does he have more than 0 sacks?

[DraftBoy]

He's an almost identical style rusher. Up the field, circle back and get to the QB. He is still extremely raw.

[DBrown77]

He's an almost identical style rusher. Up the field, circle back and get to the QB. He is still extremely raw.

Maybin gets manhandled, but Moats can hold his own for the most part. Also Moats makes his turn a lot quicker.

[DraftBoy]

Maybin gets manhandled, but Moats can hold his own for the most part. Also Moats makes his turn a lot quicker.

I dont disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Moats like Maybin is a speed outside rush LB who can't use his hands well, and has little to no inside counter move. His sacks are based almost exclusively on good coverage because he takes a round about way.

[Spiderweb]

I dont disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Moats like Maybin is a speed outside rush LB who can't use his hands well, and has little to no inside counter move. His sacks are based almost exclusively on good coverage because he takes a round about way.

Moats can provide some bull rush capabilities as well as speed. Sure, he has to learn a few more pass rush techniques but has shown some ability, whereas the lasting image in my mind of Maybin was in preseason when he rushed and a RB knocked him airborne and onto his ass.

[Lone Stranger]

I believe there is one thing missing in a comparison to Maybin: the effort Moats put into the game far exceeds what I saw Maybin do.

[DraftBoy]

Moats can provide some bull rush capabilities as well as speed. Sure, he has to learn a few more pass rush techniques but has shown some ability, whereas the lasting image in my mind of Maybin was in preseason when he rushed and a RB knocked him airborne and onto his ass.

Havent seen it use it effectively yet. He gets some push but nothing that collapses the pocket. OT usually regains pretty quickly. Size is a factor in that.

[JoeMama]

Picking Maybin in the draft http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/facepalm-1.jpg

In what plane of reality did that pick make any sense, on any level?

That draft pick was Dick Jauron's final "**** you" to Buffalo fans - since he's the guy who lobbied to draft him.

Thanks Dick/Marv era for that gem.

[alohabillsfan]

Havent seen it use it effectively yet. He gets some push but nothing that collapses the pocket. OT usually regains pretty quickly. Size is a factor in that.

Please see last washington offensive play...

[Mr. Miyagi]

How's Maybin doing so far for the Jets?

[DraftBoy]

Please see last washington offensive play...

If you have to reference the last offensive play by a team that had already lost a game that's not a good example.

Context very much matters, which is why many people got excited but only to a certain extent by Merriman's great preseason.

I need to see him do it when we need a big sack or when the game is not in hand.

[Canadian'eh!]

How's Maybin doing so far for the Jets?

He's got 3 sacks and forced 3 fumbles.

[alohabillsfan]

If you have to reference the last offensive play by a team that had already lost a game that's not a good example.

Context very much matters, which is why many people got excited but only to a certain extent by Merriman's great preseason.

I need to see him do it when we need a big sack or when the game is not in hand.

here is your quote "Havent seen it use it effectively yet. He gets some push but nothing that collapses the pocket. OT usually regains pretty quickly. Size is a factor in that."

ROFL, ok bull rush of LT pushing the pocket, you asked for it Moats provided it. It was not a blitz, it was a 4 man rush. You are evaluating the player not the game. He displayed the ablity which is what you wanted to see. PS there are more examples. :air:

[DraftBoy]

here is your quote "Havent seen it use it effectively yet. He gets some push but nothing that collapses the pocket. OT usually regains pretty quickly. Size is a factor in that."

ROFL, ok bull rush of LT pushing the pocket, you asked for it Moats provided it. It was not a blitz, it was a 4 man rush. You are evaluating the player not the game. He displayed the ablity which is what you wanted to see. PS there are more examples. :air:

When evaluating the player the context of the game matters. It the LT blows a blocking assignment and Moats gets a free sack you don't credit Moats for making a great play.

Just as if the starting LT is out and Moats beats a third string LT again that's not going to impress...well...anybody.

Context matters when evaluating the player. Otherwise preseason superstars would be regular season players but they aren't.

If you have another example Id be glad to hear it and review it.

[kingJofNYC]

He showed plenty of bull rush throughout the Washington game. Counted 3 pressures in the Giants game as well, with a QB hit which forced an errant pass by Eli. Moats has looked good his last two games.

[DraftBoy]

He should plenty of bull rush throughout the Washington game. Counted 3 pressures in the Giants game as well, with a QB hit which forced an errant pass by Eli. Moats has looked good his last two games.

Nobody is arguing he hasn't looked good. He's just a player that has a similar skill set to Maybin. Speed rusher to the outside who gets up the field. He lacks the counter and power move to become an elite level rusher. Part of that is a size issue he can't generate proper leverage. Does that mean he sucks? No, not at all. Its simply an observation and evaluation of what he can and can't do well.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

He showed plenty of bull rush throughout the Washington game. Counted 3 pressures in the Giants game as well, with a QB hit which forced an errant pass by Eli. Moats has looked good his last two games.

including a big pressure against the eagles that almost was a fumble but was picked off, and a pressure vs cincy that resulted in a td to gresham. hes was really getting outside pressure big time vs wash...:air:

[Oaf]

I dont disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Moats like Maybin is a speed outside rush LB who can't use his hands well, and has little to no inside counter move. His sacks are based almost exclusively on good coverage because he takes a round about way.

Disagree. He has shown the hand strength to force his way in-and-over from the outside position. I've seen this against Tackles and RBs. In comparison, maybin didn't exhibit this "force-in" (IMO).

Though I agree he doesn't have an inside or bull-rush move at this point.

[DraftBoy]

Disagree. He has shown the hand strength to force his way in-and-over from the outside position. I've seen this against Tackles and RBs. In comparison, maybin didn't exhibit this "force-in" (IMO).

Though I agree he doesn't have an inside or bull-rush move at this point.

Eh, I can see what you're saying though I still think he lacks the hand strength to consistenly disengage at the point of attack when going againt the TE or OT. Against RB's though he's done it.

[alohabillsfan]

Nobody is arguing he hasn't looked good. He's just a player that has a similar skill set to Maybin. Speed rusher to the outside who gets up the field. He lacks the counter and power move to become an elite level rusher. Part of that is a size issue he can't generate proper leverage. Does that mean he sucks? No, not at all. Its simply an observation and evaluation of what he can and can't do well.


DEAD WRONG:laughing:

[alohabillsfan]

When evaluating the player the context of the game matters. It the LT blows a blocking assignment and Moats gets a free sack you don't credit Moats for making a great play.

Just as if the starting LT is out and Moats beats a third string LT again that's not going to impress...well...anybody.

Context matters when evaluating the player. Otherwise preseason superstars would be regular season players but they aren't.

If you have another example Id be glad to hear it and review it.


Sure, Orakpo verse 3rd string LT named Levitre... :refuse:

[Oaf]

Eh, I can see what you're saying though I still think he lacks the hand strength to consistenly disengage at the point of attack when going againt the TE or OT. Against RB's though he's done it.
"Consistently" is a matter of definition, or we can always agree to disagree as well.

GW's INT on Vick was a good example of Moats using hand strength to force his way in-and-over on the RT. Against the Giants, it was mostly against TEs/RBs when he got pressure (from what I recall).

[thenry20]

Maybin gets manhandled, but Moats can hold his own for the most part. Also Moats makes his turn a lot quicker.

It makes you wonder why he was moved inside after his successes on the outside. But then again I'm not shocked they played KW at the nose and Darius on the end. Our DC doesn't have a clue it seems.

[RoscoeMagic]

How awesome would it be if King Arthur injures Dirty Sanchez?