Spiller

[Mike]

What do you think so far?

[Crisis]

CJ Drivekiller nickname needs to stick.

[Ed]

I wouldn't mind seeing the O-line open a hole for him.

[Luisito23]

Chan keeps running him inside where he has no chance.

Why not any tosses, sweeps, or screen passes?

[Mike]

To me he really needs open space to produce. It's going to be hard to get BIG holes in the NFl. He has to learn how to make 1st guy miss, take better holes. & angles, vision...

He could produce in a perfect situation on a great offense.

[Mr. Pink]

CJ Drivekiller nickname needs to stick.


I like it!

It has a ring to it.

[Mike]

In most of Jacksons big runs, he makes it happen by the angles & elusiveness. I remember one of his big runs, it was he & LB in the whole, he made the LB miss & took it to da house. I don't see this from spiller, instead he gets tackled & many fans blame the lack of whole.

[paladin warrior]

Got gave him a change and it take time to learn and getting better for while

[Crisis]

In most of Jacksons big runs, he makes it happen by the angles & elusiveness. I remember one of his big runs, it was he & LB in the whole, he made the LB miss & took it to da house. I don't see this from spiller, instead he gets tackled & many fans blame the lack of whole.

The main difference between Spiller + Jackson is vision and the ability to break arm tackles. Jackson will burst through a hole with his ankles/legs being tugged at for a big gain, while Spiller will go down. Jackson also sees openings a hundred times better.

Spiller goes down like a sack of bricks during any contact.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Chan keeps running him inside where he has no chance.

Why not any tosses, sweeps, or screen passes?
Because they've done that to death with everybody else this year.

[Mike]

I want to see him break one.

[Philagape]

Spiller's main weakness is running inside.

The Bills are missing their best inside blocker and o-line anchor.

So they run him almost exclusively inside.

:brilliant:

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Got gave him a change and it take time to learn and getting better for while
The excuse of losers. Running backs are a position of raw talent, unlike most NFL positions. Immediate impact can be-- and is-- expected. Spiller has not delivered.

[Dozerdog]

The best way to use him is in a Reggie Bush/Darren Sprolles role.

Basically- he's a 3rd round pick we grabbed at what- top ten somewhere?

[sqad5]

Chan keeps running him inside where he has no chance.

Why not any tosses, sweeps, or screen passes?
no f u c k i n g doubt

[Mahdi]

Spiller had a solid first game. Nothing special and against this defense he had some nice inside runs.

Pouha was in his face all day though, Urbik couldn't handle him.

[mrbojanglezs]

hard to say because fred jackson also got shut down by the jets.....

[Mr. Pink]

hard to say because fred jackson also got shut down by the jets.....


Jackson 18 82 4.6

Spiller 19 55 2.9


Just sayin'

[warsawbassman]

What do you think so far?

BUST....after all he is a Bills 1st round pick, how could he not be. It dosen't seem to matter who the GM, this team ought to trade the rights away for every 1st round pick it has, they just can't get them right.

[Crisis]

Jackson 18 82 4.6

Spiller 19 55 2.9


Just sayin'

Other than Miami, Freddie was only below 4 YPC once (3.9 vs cinci)

[Buddo]

Spiller's main problem is vision.
There was one play where Pouha rag-dolled him back past Fitz, where he cut back the wrong way.
If he had gone for the hole that was there to his right, he would have made at least a yard or two. He cut back straight into Pouha, who obviously just clobbered him.
As an NFL RB, he needs to realise that he has to hit those holes hard, even if they are starting to close, as his linemen might be able to maintain the crease long enough for him to spring through.
There's no way that Fred would not have gone for that hole.

Other than that, I thought he did ok - although letting Maybin get a sack, didn't endear me to him much.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Here's what I think of Spiller.

He's another Aaron Maybin.

Both of them high first-round draft picks. Both of them made against conventional wisdom (do I need to rehash how this team could've had Orapko and Bulaga?). Both are useless the moment an opponent so much as lays a hand on them.

[Philagape]

Other than Miami, Freddie was only below 4 YPC once (3.9 vs cinci)

He was only 2.4 in Miami before he got hurt. They really miss Wood.

[Mahdi]

He was only 2.4 in Miami before he got hurt. They really miss Wood.
Yup, HUGE HUGE loss.

Urbik was bullied by Pouha today.

[BigZ]

Didn't look too bad in the 2nd half. Offensive line is decimated.

[mrbojanglezs]

Jackson 18 82 4.6

Spiller 19 55 2.9


Just sayin'

no one is saying he is better than jackson. his negative yard plays hurts his YPC

[Forward_Lateral]

I thought Spiller did OK. He picked up a few short yardage first downs, which were huge in maintaining drives and ball control. I can't wait to see him break one soon.

[dannyek71]

Spiller = JP Losman of Rbs. You are going to hear people making excuses for him until we cut him.

[jills]

Another 1st round BUST

[BertSquirtgum]

Spiller has no lower leg power. He gets tackled by a finger. I saw magahee power through 3 guys to win the broncos the game.

[Extremebillsfan247]

What do you think so far?He didn't have a big break out 100 yard rushing game. But he was still effective enough to matter. That's about all you could ask for out of a guy filling in for Jackson. JMO

[kishoph]

Jackson 18 82 4.6

Spiller 19 55 2.9


Just sayin'



Jackson also had a 23 yd. run in garbage time on the BILLS last drive, BTW he also fumbled at the BILLS 22 and failed to pick up a 1st down on 4th and inches at the Jets 15 yd. line. You might also consider that JACKSON has the experience of more than 700 more attempts in the NFL alone.

Just sayin


SPILLER has 114 attempts in the year and a half he's been here, before yesterday never more than 7 attempts in 1 game. Most of his carries have come sporadically , never allowing him to get into any kind of rhythm and have come in obvious rushing downs where the Defense was keyed against a run, add to it that they have tried to make a speed back into a power back and you have no plausible way to judge him. I am in no way ready to give up on SPILLER, he has a lot to learn, that will come with experience add that to his speed and he will be a good back, JACKSON good, who knows, but a lot better than what some people are saying.

[jamze132]

Not many people in here are giving credit to the Jets front 7 who were in the box most of the day.

Just sayin'.

[TacklingDummy]

Another wasted 1st round pick.

[Figster]

Myself personally, CJ Spiller is a good RB who just played his 1st start this season behind one of the worst O-lines in the NFL, going up against one of the best Defenses in the NFL.

Is CJ as good as Fred, no, of course not, nobody is, but stick CJ behind the Patriots O-line and he rushes for over 100 yards.

Get CJ Spiller in space with the football and he will make plays...

[Ickybaluky]

It is too early to call Spiller a bust, give the kid some time. Still, there is a lot of sugar-coating going on here.

Say what you want, but 2.7 YPC is 2.7 YPC. That is not good.

Also, the Jets are 16th in the NFL in rush defense, giving up 114 yards a game on the ground. They are pretty stout up front, but they aren't as good as they have been in past years.

Spiller needs to be more patient and set up his blocking. He need to run with better power as well, because he doesn't break many tackles. That is particularly noticeable as a replacement for Fred Jackson, who is very difficult to bring down.

That said, you can't coach speed. Spiller should be making more plays in space, especially in the passing game. He should be more effective on draws. I think he isn't because he doesn't have the timing down. He isn't effectively setting up plays or being patient.

[Philagape]

Spiller does have his limitations, and it's safe to say he wasn't worth the ninth overall pick. He still has a lot to learn, and his physical stature will always be a disadvantage.
But he can still be useful if used right and with the right help. That does not speak well of him, but it does mean they shouldn't pound him inside for most of the game behind a disaster of a line.

[MattyNH]

The thing I notice about Spiller is as soon as there is significant contact made, his progress STOPS. Freddie will get another yard or two after contact routinely while Spiller is done. I think Spiller tries to change direction at contact and try to get out of the tackle even though there are 5 defensive players around him rather than put his head down and get what he can.

[Figster]

The thing I notice about Spiller is as soon as there is significant contact made, his progress STOPS. Freddie will get another yard or two after contact routinely while Spiller is done. I think Spiller tries to change direction at contact and try to get out of the tackle even though there are 5 defensive players around him rather than put his head down and get what he can.

Spiller relies heavily on his speed and you have to open up holes and get him into space. Fred on the other hand is much more powerful and can break arm tackles, he can run through you or around you, two different style RB's. This would be Fred Jackson going toe to toe with Maybin yesterday.

Maybin :*****slap: Fred Jackson

CJ with good Run blocking is something we just haven't seen yet, and when we do I have a feeling folks will be singing a different tune about CJ Spiller...

[Figster]

Spiller's main problem is vision.
There was one play where Pouha rag-dolled him back past Fitz, where he cut back the wrong way.
If he had gone for the hole that was there to his right, he would have made at least a yard or two. He cut back straight into Pouha, who obviously just clobbered him.
As an NFL RB, he needs to realise that he has to hit those holes hard, even if they are starting to close, as his linemen might be able to maintain the crease long enough for him to spring through.
There's no way that Fred would not have gone for that hole.

Other than that, I thought he did ok - although letting Maybin get a sack, didn't endear me to him much.

Spillers main problem is he needs better run blocking, hard to see a hole when it isn't there...

[Historian]

Trade him to Miami for a bag of pucks...

[better days]

To me he really needs open space to produce. It's going to be hard to get BIG holes in the NFl. He has to learn how to make 1st guy miss, take better holes. & angles, vision...

He could produce in a perfect situation on a great offense.

BIG holes? Spiller had NO holes yesterday. Freddie would not have done any better yesterday with Pouha in the backfield half the day.

[better days]

Spiller has no lower leg power. He gets tackled by a finger. I saw magahee power through 3 guys to win the broncos the game.

Tebow WON the Broncos game, NOT McGahee.

[Philagape]

CJ with good Run blocking is something we just haven't seen yet, and when we do I have a feeling folks will be singing a different tune about CJ Spiller...

Why would we sing a different tune about Spiller if it's the blocking that's different?

[Oaf]

I was satisfied w/ Spiller's play.

[justasportsfan]

With an OL that can't create holes, he's not going anywhere.

[better days]

With an OL that can't create holes, he's not going anywhere.

Even LeGarrret Blount 6' 247lbs & a GOOD STRONG RB for the Bucs can't get going without a hole to get through.

[Mr. Pink]

I see we have a new golden boy to make excuses about among the fanbase!

2.9ypc is enough for some people. Getting arm tackled at the ankle while entering the hole is satisfying. Not having the vision to properly find the hole is good too!

Just wow.

[trapezeus]

i thought for an inaugural game, he looked decent enough with upside. i'm not going to say i love him and i'm not going to say he's a bust. he had a couple good runs and he had a couple games where he ran right into the backs of people.

The do need to give him some counter tray movements so that he's one on one with a linebacker.

Im undecided, but he performed better than i had expected.

[Figster]

Why would we sing a different tune about Spiller if it's the blocking that's different?


When the O-line opens up holes the RB makes plays and scores TD's

[Philagape]

When the O-line opens up holes the RB makes plays and scores TD's

But then the credit should go to the line, no? We should be singing their tune.

[justasportsfan]

i thought for an inaugural game, he looked decent enough with upside. i'm not going to say i love him and i'm not going to say he's a bust. he had a couple good runs and he had a couple games where he ran right into the backs of people.

The do need to give him some counter tray movements so that he's one on one with a linebacker.

Im undecided, but he performed better than i had expected.

I'm not making excuses. Spiller IMO has disappointed. I still think our OL still isn't all that in the run game. Just like Fitz makes the OL look good in the passing game, Fred did the same for the run game.

[BertSquirtgum]

Tebow WON the Broncos game, NOT McGahee.
nope, magahee had the 24 yard run to set up the broncos field goal. therefore, he won the broncos the game.

during a baseball game that is tied in extra inning, who is called the hero? the guy who hit the homerun in the 9th to tie it? or the guy who hit the homerun in the 11th to win it?

[Figster]

But then the credit should go to the line, no? We should be singing their tune.


How about both

[Philagape]

How about both

What's more impressive? To open holes, or to run through open holes? Any RB should be able to do that. A RB doesn't impress me until he runs through tacklers.

[Figster]

What's more impressive? To open holes, or to run through open holes? Any RB should be able to do that. A RB doesn't impress me until he runs through tacklers.


Did Barry Sanders ever impress you?

[better days]

nope, magahee had the 24 yard run to set up the broncos field goal. therefore, he won the broncos the game.

during a baseball game that is tied in extra inning, who is called the hero? the guy who hit the homerun in the 9th to tie it? or the guy who hit the homerun in the 11th to win it?

NONSENSE. In the first place the Broncos would not even have been playing in overtime if Tebow did not throw that beautiful LONG pass to get them in position for the tying FG at the end of the 4th Qtr.

In the 2nd place Tebow ran for 11 or 12 Yds the play before McGahees run for a 1st down. It was 1st down with plenty of time left when McGahee ran. Had he not picked up those yards, Tebow would have gotten the Broncos in position to score anyway.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'm right, you're wrong.

[better days]

I'm right, you're wrong.

Keep telling yourself that, maybe you can get yourself to believe it. To compare football & baseball is crazy. The only thing those sports have in common is players in both make a lot of money, but if you were going to, I guess the kicker not Tebow or McGahee would be the hero. He is the one that hit the home run & scored the points.

No one player is responsible for a win or loss in Football, but Tebow had MUCH MORE to do with the win than McGahee did & in Football they talk about the WINNING QB, NOT the winning RB or Kicker. Kind of like they talk about the winning pitcher in baseball.

[SABURZFAN]

What do you think so far?

Ronnie Harmon with less production.

[SABURZFAN]

Tebow WON the Broncos game, NOT McGahee.


wipe off your face, yordad. you have Tebow's DNA all over it.

[Ickybaluky]

Did Barry Sanders ever impress you?

While Barry was elusive, you are kidding yourself if you think he never broke tackles. The guy had incredibly strong legs and could drive through tackles. He was all legs.

I don't think Spiller is anything like Barry Sanders. Sanders has balance, vision, run skills and surprising power when he ran. He had a lot of the run skills of Tony Dorsett, but probably was more elusive.

[Philagape]

Did Barry Sanders ever impress you?

Sanders destroyed tacklers. He had the strongest legs I've ever seen. The guy was 5-8 and it would often take gangs to bring him down.

[better days]

While Barry was elusive, you are kidding yourself if you think he never broke tackles. The guy had incredibly strong legs and could drive through tackles. He was all legs.

I don't think Spiller is anything like Barry Sanders. Sanders has balance, vision, run skills and surprising power when he ran. He had a lot of the run skills of Tony Dorsett, but probably was more elusive.

I think you & Philagape are confusing Sanders with Walter Payton. Now he could break tackles.

As a Bucs fan I saw them both play a lot while in their prime as the Bucs were in the same division with both.

Payton would get 2, 3, 4, 6 yds per carry & you thought he was not going to get anything at all then you look at the stats at the end of the game to see he ran for 130 yds.

Sanders was tackled in the backfield quite often. His average would be much higher if he did not have so many negative plays. He did not seem that difficult to tackle if you got your hands on him. That was the hard part. He was so elusive & quick, you thought you had him & you were grasping air. He was like tackling a ghost.

I saw many games where the Bucs would tackle him in the backfield a number of times & at the line of scrimmage then he would break one for 30 yds & a TD. He was good for at least 3 or 4 long runs a game, not because he broke tackles but because guys couldn't get a hand on him.

[Philagape]

No, I meant Barry Sanders.

[better days]

No, I meant Barry Sanders.

Well, how old are you? How much have you watched him play? Like I said he was tackled in the backfield all the time. Someone that breaks tackles does not have all the negative yds Sanders did.

You are just wrong.

[Philagape]

Well, how old are you? How much have you watched him play? Like I said he was tackled in the backfield all the time. Someone that breaks tackles does not have all the negative yds Sanders did.

You are just wrong.

I watched Sanders during the entirety of his career. He broke tackles. I didn't say all the time, I said often.
Your past comments about Evans, Tebow and Losman shows you're in no position to declare who's wrong about anything. You just might be the worst observer of talent in BZ history, so saying you watched the games means nothing.

[better days]

I watched Sanders during the entirety of his career. He broke tackles. I didn't say all the time, I said often.
Your past comments about Evans, Tebow and Losman shows you're in no position to declare who's wrong about anything. You just might be the worst observer of talent in BZ history, so saying you watched the games means nothing.

Yeah, LOL Tebow is playing terrible. He is only 5-1.

Evans was injured before getting a chance to show what he could do with a decent QB.

The only thing I said about Losman is he that he was & is MUCH better than Trent. The fact he has a job & Trent doesn't speaks to that. The Texans could use a QB, lets see if they sign Trent.

Thanks for playing but you LOSE.

[Philagape]

Yeah, LOL Tebow is playing terrible. He is only 5-1.

Evans was injured before getting a chance to show what he could do with a decent QB.

The only thing I said about Losman is he that he was & is MUCH better than Trent. The fact he has a job & Trent doesn't speaks to that. The Texans could use a QB, lets see if they sign Trent.

Thanks for playing but you LOSE.

Case closed.

[better days]

Case closed.

Yeah, you ran out of Quarters without winning a free game.

[Ickybaluky]

I think you & Philagape are confusing Sanders with Walter Payton. Now he could break tackles.

No, I'm not confusing anything. Payton was a great player as well and probably the greatest finisher of runs in NFL history, but Sanders would pinball off guys because his legs were so strong they couldn't wrap him up. You couldn't arm tackle the guy.

The reason Sanders got tackled for loss so much was because he was always looking to make big plays. That was his style, and it worked because he did rip off so many big runs. However, other than a couple years he played behind poor blocking in Detroit and he had to make a lot of yards on his own. He has some of the greatest 1-yard runs in NFL history.

Barry is one of my favorite all-time players, and I still watch games of his on the computer. One of my favorites is his first NFL games. He was a holdout all through training camp, signing just days before their first game. He got in so late he didn't get to practice, so they taught him 1 play during the walk-through before the game. He wasn't supposed to play, but they put him in during the game and he ripped off an 18-yard run on his first carry. They kept calling the one play he knew, and he finished the game with 9 carries for 71 yards and a TD. He took off from there, finishing 2nd in the NFL in rushing. He was only 10 yards away from leading the NFL, but said he didn't want to go back in during their last game just to get the rushing title. He won rookie of the year anyway.

Sanders was one-of-a-kind, and it isn't fair to compare Spiller or any other back to him. The idea he couldn't break tackles is a falsity, and if you dont' believe me just check these out (watch all the arm tackles he runs right through):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU

Dude was ridiculous.

[better days]

No, I'm not confusing anything. Payton was a great player as well and probably the greatest finisher of runs in NFL history, but Sanders would pinball off guys because his legs were so strong they couldn't wrap him up. You couldn't arm tackle the guy.

The reason Sanders got tackled for loss so much was because he was always looking to make big plays. That was his style, and it worked because he did rip off so many big runs. However, other than a couple years he played behind poor blocking in Detroit and he had to make a lot of yards on his own. He has some of the greatest 1-yard runs in NFL history.

Barry is one of my favorite all-time players, and I still watch games of his on the computer. One of my favorites is his first NFL games. He was a holdout all through training camp, signing just days before their first game. He got in so late he didn't get to practice, so they taught him 1 play during the walk-through before the game. He wasn't supposed to play, but they put him in during the game and he ripped off an 18-yard run on his first carry. They kept calling the one play he knew, and he finished the game with 9 carries for 71 yards and a TD. He took off from there, finishing 2nd in the NFL in rushing. He was only 10 yards away from leading the NFL, but said he didn't want to go back in during their last game just to get the rushing title. He won rookie of the year anyway.

Sanders was one-of-a-kind, and it isn't fair to compare Spiller or any other back to him. The idea he couldn't break tackles is a falsity, and if you dont' believe me just check these out (watch all the arm tackles he runs right through):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU

Dude was ridiculous.

Straight out of Wiki. Yes Sanders was one of a kind, but it was his elusivness & quickness that was the reason for that, not his strength. If you listed all the attributes Sanders posessed that helped him get in the HOF, Strength would be at the BOTTOM of the list.

He could not be arm tackled because guys couldn't get a good grip on him, he was too fast & elusive NOT too strong. To think Sanders was STRONGER than ALL the guys on Defense trying to tackle him is Crazy.

Yes it is true that the Lions did not have a good line for some of the time Sanders played, well I have been told quit making excuses for Bills that have been on bad teams so I quess you can say the same for Sanders.

Like I said if he was SO STRONG he would not have been tackled in the backfield ALL the time. If you watch the ENTIRE game of Sanders, ANY game, I will guarantee you he is tackled in the backfield at least once.

[BertSquirtgum]

You can't get away from 3 guys every time. You're being unreasonable with your thoughts on Sanders

[Mike]

BIG holes? Spiller had NO holes yesterday. Freddie would not have done any better yesterday with Pouha in the backfield half the day.


Freddie did do better against the same Jets team only a few weeks earlier. Also, in that game, Freddie was the only one doing anything. The Bills offense could not move the ball. It was a game of 3& Outs which they scored 8pts -I think and got blown out. All this means, less opportunity to run, more Jets in the Box, more run blitzes, etc...

The Jets tried to Stop Freddie, they Game planned for him and they did a good job of containing him. I guarantee you that they did not game plan for Spiller.

[Mike]

Spiller did have some holes to run through. He also missed some holes, did okay with other holes, etc. He lacks in vision, and sometimes watching him, I could see that if he made such and such cut, he could get an extra 5yards or more. But he does not make the right cut, and instead its a 1yr gain. I could see it.

With Freddie, he made the right cuts! Also he was very elusive, he would make a tackler or 2 miss and before you knew it it was a 20yrd gain. In fact Freddie had a 20yarder in every game this year!

[Mike]

Spiller is only as good as his hole is big and obvious. He is not good enough, at this point, to set up defenders, create something out of nothing, elude defenders, etc... He depends on a huge, obvious hole with a lot of space!!!

[Mike]

Lastly, big hole and obvious hole, for Spiller do not mean long run. No matter how big the hole or how well he goes through it, if there is a defender somewhere on the other side, unless in open space, that defender will bring spiller down most of the time. He has a very hard time making players miss or breaking tackles. In other words, there are many many underrated RB with speed that could do exactly what Spiller could do...

[better days]

You can't get away from 3 guys every time. You're being unreasonable with your thoughts on Sanders

Sanders was tackled in the backfield MANY times by ONE guy that broke through the line.

I'm not saying Sanders was not a great player. He was GREAT. I'm saying he was great because of his SPEED, VISION, ABILITY to hit the hole fast & turn on a dime, ELUSIVENESS

There have been many backs in the NFL that were stronger than Sanders that are not in the HOF. And Sanders is not in the HOF because of his strength.

[Mike]

How Spiller should be used:
He can be used like a Daren Sprolles, or a Reggie Bush, Warrick Dunn, etc....
I would give him pitches to the outside, runs outside the tackles, counters, etc... runs that require speed. No up the middle stuff. Have him catch passes in open space, turn him loose with separation. I would love to see Spiller vs a LB in pass coverage, however I am disappointed that I have not see it to date....

[better days]

Freddie did do better against the same Jets team only a few weeks earlier. Also, in that game, Freddie was the only one doing anything. The Bills offense could not move the ball. It was a game of 3& Outs which they scored 8pts -I think and got blown out. All this means, less opportunity to run, more Jets in the Box, more run blitzes, etc...

The Jets tried to Stop Freddie, they Game planned for him and they did a good job of containing him. I guarantee you that they did not game plan for Spiller.

Well, Freddie played behind an OL that was in better shape the 1st time the Bills played the Jets. Wood was at Center & helped open some holes.

I have said before, that Freddie hits the hole as fast as any back in the NFL. Spiller is not as good, but Freddie is injured & with playing time we can hope Spiller improves. Players always say you have to play in the games to get better.

You have to be crazy to think the Jets did not game plan for Spiller. Why would they not when they knew he was starting?

[better days]

How Spiller should be used:
He can be used like a Daren Sprolles, or a Reggie Bush, Warrick Dunn, etc....
I would give him pitches to the outside, runs outside the tackles, counters, etc... runs that require speed. No up the middle stuff. Have him catch passes in open space, turn him loose with separation. I would love to see Spiller vs a LB in pass coverage, however I am disappointed that I have not see it to date....

Well, Warrick Dunn ran INSIDE all the time. Now that was a guy that was STRONG for his size.

[snow1989]

Spiller is nothing but a 3rd down back and most likely won't ever be more than that...he was simply drafted way too high.

[RedEyE]

Chan wanted a "Scat" style back going into that draft and voila in comes Spiller.

He is not a hard nosed, every down, pick up every inch, type of player. He is all flash and dance.

If you work him to the open field he might be able to break an ankle or two but he's not going to push a pair of linebackers over for a 1st down on 3rd and inches.

I think Gailey is utilizing Spiller's abilites incorrectly. He needs to unfold Spiller in the flats in that spread offense they were using early in the season. Spiller can do more damage out there and in the pass game.

The problem is that with Jackson out, Gailey's back is against the wall, he has no choice but to use Spiller every down.

[Figster]

I watched Sanders during the entirety of his career. He broke tackles. I didn't say all the time, I said often.
Your past comments about Evans, Tebow and Losman shows you're in no position to declare who's wrong about anything. You just might be the worst observer of talent in BZ history, so saying you watched the games means nothing.

In your dreams maybe, Barry Sanders for the most part made plays by dodging people not running through them. Sanders uncanny body balance and agility/ability to stop and go on a dime and make unheard of cuts is what made him special. Good grief, not running through people or breaking tackles. Sanders center of gravity was so low sometimes on cuts he was simply out of reach.

Sanders may have looked liked he was breaking tackles, but in truth defenders couldn't even get a good grip on him to begin with in my opinion.

Its amazing what folks will say sometimes in an effort to prove someone else wrong.:laughing:

[Ickybaluky]

You people are delusional if you don't think Barry Sanders was tough to bring down. Yes, he was very elusive, but he also had incredible balance and power in his legs.

Barry had some of the strongest legs in the history of the game, they were as big as his guards. When he was at Oklahoma State he set the weight-room record by squatting 650 pounds 23 times. He was legendary for his leg strength.

Just because Barry was elusive and it was hard to get your hands on him doesn't mean he was easy to bring down when someone did. The opposite was true. He wasn't a pile-mover in the Jerome Bettis style, but he was a strong guy who ran though arm tackles and kept his balance when people hit his legs.

Spiller is not that type of runner, he is about short-area quickness and long-speed. Spiller is not Barry Sanders.

[Ickybaluky]

Well, Warrick Dunn ran INSIDE all the time. Now that was a guy that was STRONG for his size.

Barry Sanders did as well. Barry was the best in the NFL at running draws right up the middle.

[Philagape]

In your dreams maybe, Barry Sanders for the most part made plays by dodging people not running through them. Sanders uncanny body balance and agility/ability to stop and go on a dime and make unheard of cuts is what made him special. Good grief, not running through people or breaking tackles.

Sanders may have looked liked he was breaking tackles, but in truth defenders couldn't even get a good grip on him to begin with in my opinion.

Its amazing what folks will say sometimes in an effort to prove someone else wrong.:laughing:

Nobody is saying that quickness and cuts weren't his primary skill. He was so good at that, that less observant watchers forget that he also had the strength in his churning legs to keep going when he was caught. Not all the time, but enough that knowledgeable observers noticed it.
I don't have to say it, here's the proof.
In this video, he runs through tacklers, not around them, at :30, 1:25 and 3:43. At 2:35, he shakes off two tacklers, and at 2:48 he gets caught in the backfield by Darryl Talley and Cornelius Bennett but stays on his feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtNbDOIDzg

Here he gets hit square in the gut and keeps going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yZ59xbYjio

Remember he was 5-8 and 200 pounds. How strong does a guy that small have to be to keep going after linebackers get him?

[Figster]

Nobody is saying that quickness and cuts weren't his primary skill. He was so good at that, that less observant watchers forget that he also had the strength in his churning legs to keep going when he was caught. Not all the time, but enough that knowledgeable observers noticed it.
I don't have to say it, here's the proof.
In this video, he runs through tacklers, not around them, at :30, 1:25 and 3:43. At 2:35, he shakes off two tacklers, and at 2:48 he gets caught in the backfield by Darryl Talley and Cornelius Bennett but stays on his feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtNbDOIDzg

Here he gets hit square in the gut and keeps going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yZ59xbYjio

balance, low center of gravity, and elusivness is how Sanders made a living,

I bet out of all of Spillers carries I could find a couple of him breaking tackles, it proves nothing...

[Philagape]

uuuhhh .... uhhhhhh ...... I'll just throw something out here like comparing Sanders to Spiller uuuuhhhhh

[Figster]

I asked If Sanders ever impressed you :laughing:

[Philagape]

I asked If Sanders ever impressed you :laughing:

You're the one who brought him up in a thread about CJ Spiller. OMG.

[Figster]

You're the one who brought him up in a thread about CJ Spiller. OMG.


:laughing:

[BillsWin]

I thought he played well against a good defense behind a jumbled offensive line full of second and third teamers.

[better days]

You people are delusional if you don't think Barry Sanders was tough to bring down. Yes, he was very elusive, but he also had incredible balance and power in his legs.

Barry had some of the strongest legs in the history of the game, they were as big as his guards. When he was at Oklahoma State he set the weight-room record by squatting 650 pounds 23 times. He was legendary for his leg strength.

Just because Barry was elusive and it was hard to get your hands on him doesn't mean he was easy to bring down when someone did. The opposite was true. He wasn't a pile-mover in the Jerome Bettis style, but he was a strong guy who ran though arm tackles and kept his balance when people hit his legs.

Spiller is not that type of runner, he is about short-area quickness and long-speed. Spiller is not Barry Sanders.

Show me the numbers of Sanders legs & the guards legs with authenticity & I will believe you. Sanders was brought down easily when in the backfield before he could make his moves.

If he had such strong legs why was he tackled so easily in the backfield & why could he not move the pile like Bettis with the Strongest legs in the history of the NFL?

I'm not saying Sanders did not have strong legs, but that is NOT the reason he will be remembered as a great back. He was a great back for all the reasons I already listed, not his strength.

I don't remember anyone saying Spiller compared to Sanders.

[BertSquirtgum]

Barry Sanders was the best running back ever.

[justasportsfan]

I think Spiller will be a probowl rb. 5 years down the road when he's no longer a bill.

[better days]

Barry Sanders was the best running back ever.

I totally disagree with that. Like I said he was tackled in the backfield for a loss far too often to be considered the best back ever.

IMO Jim Brown holds that title. He was the BEST RB ever. I would put Walter Payton & Emmit Smith ahead of Sanders myself.

[Ickybaluky]

Show me the numbers of Sanders legs & the guards legs with authenticity & I will believe you. Sanders was brought down easily when in the backfield before he could make his moves.

If he had such strong legs why was he tackled so easily in the backfield & why could he not move the pile like Bettis with the Strongest legs in the history of the NFL?

I forgot your fondness for hyperbole. I never said "strongest legs in this history of the NFL".

The squat number came out of a biography, but just looking at the SI archives:

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136467/3/index.htm)


The Lions, holding the third pick in the draft, had no problems with Sanders's size. Indeed, when you get beyond his height, there is nothing small about Sanders. "Look at the legs in the huddle," says Davis. "His legs are as big as the guards' legs."

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1143140/3/index.htm)


That talent, of course, was almost otherworldly—the kind of physical gift that could transform a two-yard loss into a frenetic ballet. At 5'8" Sanders didn't so much run as vibrate through the swarms of bigger men intent on crushing him; blessed with titanium ankles and massive thighs, his joints swiveling beyond normal human range, Sanders slipped, spun, juked and twisted through the tiniest holes.

Where do you get that Sanders was "brought down easily"? It was never easy to bring Sanders down. He got tackled for losses because he tried to make big plays and was fond of reversing the field. Occasionally, he got tackled behind the line, but he hit enough big plays to offset that. If Barry didn't try to hit the big plays he would not have lost yards on so many runs, but then he wouldn't have hit so many big plays either.

At any rate, some of Barry's most amazing runs were the ones that wen for losses. He would break more tackles running for no gain than a lot of guys did gaining a lot more.

At the end of they day, you just have to watch the guy play. Look at those videos. look how often there is contact and the guy keeps going. He was a strong runner. He often made the first guy miss, then he would run through tacklers.

[Mski]

i dont know how anyone can compare Sanders and Spiller, the only thing they have in common is the position they play.... The only record Sanders has is most rushes for a loss

FWIW the best runningback in NFL history was Bo Jackson

[better days]

I forgot your fondness for hyperbole. I never said "strongest legs in this history of the NFL".

The squat number came out of a biography, but just looking at the SI archives:

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136467/3/index.htm)



LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1143140/3/index.htm)



Where do you get that Sanders was "brought down easily"? It was never easy to bring Sanders down. He got tackled for losses because he tried to make big plays and was fond of reversing the field. Occasionally, he got tackled behind the line, but he hit enough big plays to offset that. If Barry didn't try to hit the big plays he would not have lost yards on so many runs, but then he wouldn't have hit so many big plays either.

At any rate, some of Barry's most amazing runs were the ones that wen for losses. He would break more tackles running for no gain than a lot of guys did gaining a lot more.

At the end of they day, you just have to watch the guy play. Look at those videos. look how often there is contact and the guy keeps going. He was a strong runner. He often made the first guy miss, then he would run through tacklers.

You said he had the "strongest legs in the history of the GAME" I thought that INCLUDED the NFL since the game is played in the NFL.


He was not looking to make a big play behind the line. He just got hit before he got a chance to get going & it was more than ocasionally, it was all the time. But yes, his long runs & big plays more than made up for any negative plays he had.

Like I said, ask ANYONE over the age of 40 that saw Sanders play their impression of him & you will NOT get a reply of "Strong Hard Runner" you will hear, " Fast, Shifty big play runner".

[Bill Cody]

Don't worry we're going to get value from Spiller- Nix has Overdorf making some calls, looking for a 4th

[Ickybaluky]

He was not looking to make a big play behind the line. He just got hit before he got a chance to get going & it was more than ocasionally, it was all the time. But yes, his long runs & big plays more than made up for any negative plays he had.

Like I said, ask ANYONE over the age of 40 that saw Sanders play their impression of him & you will NOT get a reply of "Strong Hard Runner" you will hear, " Fast, Shifty big play runner".

He was elusive, but a strong runner as well. Not a good short yardage runner, because he was not that kind of runner, but not a guy you could knock off balance with an arm tackle or by hitting his legs. Just the opposite, he pinballed off hits and kept his legs churning.

You are nuts if you think Barry went down easy. He was always looking to make the big play. People forget he played in an offense without a fullback or TE a lot of the time. He played in one-back sets with multiple WR until late in his career and had to make his own numbers. When Detroit put a fullback in front of him he ran for 2,000 yards. He got hit in the backfield a lot because there weren't a lot of guys to block for him. It is a miracle he didn't get caught more.

Barry was a home run back. He did take losses because of that, because he was always looking to make the big play and got caught. However, that doesn't mean the guy was tackled easily. He was a strong runner.

"All the time" is relative. Barry had 336 carries for loss for -952 yards out of over 3,000 carries. That means he was tackled for loss about twice a game for a total of -6 yards. I don't know if that qualifies as "All the time", expecially since is really was a product of his running style.

[Bill Cody]

I think you & Philagape are confusing Sanders with Walter Payton. Now he could break tackles.

As a Bucs fan I saw them both play a lot while in their prime as the Bucs were in the same division with both.

Payton would get 2, 3, 4, 6 yds per carry & you thought he was not going to get anything at all then you look at the stats at the end of the game to see he ran for 130 yds.

Sanders was tackled in the backfield quite often. His average would be much higher if he did not have so many negative plays. He did not seem that difficult to tackle if you got your hands on him. That was the hard part. He was so elusive & quick, you thought you had him & you were grasping air. He was like tackling a ghost.

I saw many games where the Bucs would tackle him in the backfield a number of times & at the line of scrimmage then he would break one for 30 yds & a TD. He was good for at least 3 or 4 long runs a game, not because he broke tackles but because guys couldn't get a hand on him.

The Lions offensive line was bad. That was a good piece of why Sanders got tackled for loss so often, their o line allowed a lot of penetration, that and he liked to reverse field. Sanders wasn't a true power back by any means but he could really do it all and he was not easy to tackle, you're wrong on that. I think he's underestimated because he played on a lot of godawful teams with no QB. Guess who the opposing D keyed on every play?

You put Emmit Smith or even Payton both of whom were very strong north south guys on the Lions and they'd have a lot more carries for loss than they did. As many as Barry? No. But that doesn't mean Barry went down easy, you're talking 2 HOF players there. I'd just like to look at Spiller some day and not think of a word that rhymes with "lust".

[better days]

He was elusive, but a strong runner as well. Not a good short yardage runner, because he was not that kind of runner, but not a guy you could knock off balance with an arm tackle or by hitting his legs. Just the opposite, he pinballed off hits and kept his legs churning.

You are nuts if you think Barry went down easy. He was always looking to make the big play. People forget he played in an offense without a fullback or TE a lot of the time. He played in one-back sets with multiple WR until late in his career and had to make his own numbers. When Detroit put a fullback in front of him he ran for 2,000 yards. He got hit in the backfield a lot because there weren't a lot of guys to block for him. It is a miracle he didn't get caught more.

Barry was a home run back. He did take losses because of that, because he was always looking to make the big play and got caught. However, that doesn't mean the guy was tackled easily. He was a strong runner.

"All the time" is relative. Barry had 336 carries for loss for -952 yards out of over 3,000 carries. That means he was tackled for loss about twice a game for a total of -6 yards. I don't know if that qualifies as "All the time", expecially since is really was a product of his running style.

I would say two negative plays a game is all the time & proof he was not all that hard to bring down. There are few RB's that averaged 2 negative plays a game that are in the HOF.

I won't argue he was difficult to tackle in the open field, but that had more to do with his vision, speed, elusiveness & ability to cut on a dime than his strength.

I think we can agree he was a great back & one of a kind.

[dannyek71]

Don't worry we're going to get value from Spiller- Nix has Overdorf making some calls, looking for a 4th
Who would be dumb enough to give us a 4th for him? We'd be lucky to get a conditional 7th. Who was going to trade us for Maybin?

[Figster]

The Lions offensive line was bad. That was a good piece of why Sanders got tackled for loss so often, their o line allowed a lot of penetration, that and he liked to reverse field. Sanders wasn't a true power back by any means but he could really do it all and he was not easy to tackle, you're wrong on that. I think he's underestimated because he played on a lot of godawful teams with no QB. Guess who the opposing D keyed on every play?

You put Emmit Smith or even Payton both of whom were very strong north south guys on the Lions and they'd have a lot more carries for loss than they did. As many as Barry? No. But that doesn't mean Barry went down easy, you're talking 2 HOF players there. I'd just like to look at Spiller some day and not think of a word that rhymes with "lust".

Funny you practically call better days right then call him wrong in the same sentence.

The whole point was Barry Sanders made a good living out of dodging the defense, not running through/ over them, or by throwing off tacklers which he did very little of in my opinion. Once you get a grip on Sanders, tackling him was never much of a problem, getting a hold of him on the other hand was not so easy.

[Figster]

i dont know how anyone can compare Sanders and Spiller, the only thing they have in common is the position they play.... The only record Sanders has is most rushes for a loss

FWIW the best runningback in NFL history was Bo Jackson


Good point, and not a record a power runner that sheds would be tacklers would even have in my opinion. ( I did not verify )

[Ickybaluky]

I would say two negative plays a game is all the time & proof he was not all that hard to bring down. There are few RB's that averaged 2 negative plays a game that are in the HOF.

I don't think you can say that at all. It says more about his running style. Barry was willing to reverse field and try to make the big play, and occasionally he got caught. The same reason he had a high number of negative plays led to his having so many long runs. He had more of those than anyone as well, because of his style.

That doesn't mean you could bring him down easy, that is completely different. He wasn't a pile pusher, as that has more to do with bulk. However, he ran through arms and took shots to the legs and kept on trucking. You had to wrap him up to tackle him, and usually it took more than one guy.

[Ickybaluky]

You said he had the "strongest legs in the history of the GAME" I thought that INCLUDED the NFL since the game is played in the NFL.

I said "some of the strongest legs in the game". That means he had very strong legs, stronger than most who played his position. That is true, he was built very low to the ground.

[Ickybaluky]

The whole point was Barry Sanders made a good living out of dodging the defense, not running through/ over them, or by throwing off tacklers which he did very little of in my opinion. Once you get a grip on Sanders, tackling him was never much of a problem, getting a hold of him on the other hand was not so easy.

You are right that he didn't "run people over". However, he ran through arm tackles and bounced off guys who didn't wrap him up. Sanders wasn't a pile-pusher, but he was a very strong guy who had to be wrapped up. He didn't go down easy.

Just watch the video. Look how many guys make contact with him. He keeps his legs moving or spins off contact and keeps going. He runs through arms. That is strong running.

[trapezeus]

i didn't read all the discussion on barry sanders, but spiller doesn't come close to reminding me of sanders. Sanders was a squat man who was built to carry the load. Spiller is not. Sanders shiftiness was truly unique.Spiller looks like Reggie Bush. He seems to hvae the same issues that Mcgahee had his second year as starter here. Unwilling to hit a hole fast. Looking to dance.

There were one or two runs that spiller got into the second level and needed to make a cut one way or the other and didn't do anything. that may be that he needs more time, but it does suggest that he doesn't really have amazing vision inside tight spaces.

If the bills want to run him outside, they will need to be able to flip a couple reverses and the reverse motion just to slow down the outside contain guy. But the bills making the best of what they have, hasn't been their strength for oh say 10-12 years.

[better days]

I don't think you can say that at all. It says more about his running style. Barry was willing to reverse field and try to make the big play, and occasionally he got caught. The same reason he had a high number of negative plays led to his having so many long runs. He had more of those than anyone as well, because of his style.

That doesn't mean you could bring him down easy, that is completely different. He wasn't a pile pusher, as that has more to do with bulk. However, he ran through arms and took shots to the legs and kept on trucking. You had to wrap him up to tackle him, and usually it took more than one guy.

Well, I guess we will just disagree, but if a guy is tackled for a loss two times every game for his entire career, that does not equate to being hard to tackle in my book.

I doubt there is another RB in the HOF that was tackled for a loss twice a game for his career, but Sanders made so many yards with his vision, speed, balance, elusiveness & ability to cut on a dime that it more than made up for his negative plays.

[Ickybaluky]

The only record Sanders has is most rushes for a loss

I missed this before, but it isn't correct. Barry's style led to him taking more losses, but he had more long runs as well. I'd bet he holds the records for long runs as well.

I do know of a couple records he has:

- First player in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards in his first 10 seasons.
- Only player in NFL history to rush for 1,500 yards five times.

[Ickybaluky]

Tre is another RB in the HOF that was tackled for a loss twice a game for his career, but Sanders made so many yards with his vision, speed, balance, elusiveness & ability to cut on a dime that it more than made up for his negative plays.

How many guys in the HOF ran like Sanders? I agree with what you said, but you leave out strength. The most under-appreciated thing about Sanders was how strong he was in his legs. You make him sound like a scat back, but he wasn't.

Sanders wasn't a power back in the John Riggins sense, I'll give you that. However, watch him run and he is always running through arms or bouncing off contact. He had unbelievable balance, and if you didn't wrap him up he was gone. Just because he was elusive doesn't mean he wasn't strong.

[better days]

How many guys in the HOF ran like Sanders? I agree with what you said, but you leave out strength. The most under-appreciated thing about Sanders was how strong he was in his legs. You make him sound like a scat back, but he wasn't.

Sanders wasn't a power back in the John Riggins sense, I'll give you that. However, watch him run and he is always running through arms or bouncing off contact. He had unbelievable balance, and if you didn't wrap him up he was gone. Just because he was elusive doesn't mean he wasn't strong.

I will agree when Sanders got going he was tough to bring down & his strength played a part in that I will concede.

Having watched him as much as I did however, I can tell you if a player got his hands on him near the line of scrimmage or behind the line, he was MUCH easier to tackle than in the open field. The reason for that was all the attributes I listed IMO.

So the point is Sanders did not make his own holes like a Bettis or Alstott he needed that hole to get into the open field where he could work his magic.

[Ickybaluky]

I will agree when Sanders got going he was tough to bring down & his strength played a part in that I will concede.

Having watched him as much as I did however, I can tell you if a player got his hands on him near the line of scrimmage or behind the line, he was MUCH easier to tackle than in the open field. The reason for that was all the attributes I listed IMO.

I'll agree he was much harder to tackle in the open field, mainly because you couldn't even get your hands on him in the open field.

I really don't think we are far off, I just think people lose sight of how much strength Barry had when he ran. "Power" is probably the wrong word, because he didn't run with power. He didn't have the bulk to do that. That wasn't his style. However, his legs were incredibly strong, and that gave him his balance. He was much stronger than people give him credit for as a runner.

[stuckincincy]

I will agree when Sanders got going he was tough to bring down & his strength played a part in that I will concede.

Having watched him as much as I did however, I can tell you if a player got his hands on him near the line of scrimmage or behind the line, he was MUCH easier to tackle than in the open field. The reason for that was all the attributes I listed IMO.

So the point is Sanders did not make his own holes like a Bettis or Alstott he needed that hole to get into the open field where he could work his magic.

Remember that ad campaign several years ago. The player's name was "Leon".

If somebody jostled Sander's Grandmother into the street, a block in her behalf wouldn't enter his mind.

[dannyek71]

Trent Edwards can still be a good NFL QB. He just needs a good OL to play behind, a Barry Sanders type of Back in the backfield and he needs to throw to Jerry Rice and Chris Carter. He should be OK then.

Oh and throw in a Tony Gonzalez for good measure.

[better days]

Trent Edwards can still be a good NFL QB. He just needs a good OL to play behind, a Barry Sanders type of Back in the backfield and he needs to throw to Jerry Rice and Chris Carter. He should be OK then.

Oh and throw in a Tony Gonzalez for good measure.

I just read, the Texans just signed Jake Delhomme, looks like Trent is still looking for work.

[kishoph]

Trent Edwards can still be a good NFL QB. He just needs a good OL to play behind, a Barry Sanders type of Back in the backfield and he needs to throw to Jerry Rice and Chris Carter. He should be OK then.

Oh and throw in a Tony Gonzalez for good measure.

Plus a red jersey, that's the only one he ever was good in.

[better days]

Plus a red jersey, that's the only one he ever was good in.

LOL, he may have been a HOF QB if he could wear that red jersey on game day.

[Bill Cody]

Funny you practically call better days right then call him wrong in the same sentence.

The whole point was Barry Sanders made a good living out of dodging the defense, not running through/ over them, or by throwing off tacklers which he did very little of in my opinion. Once you get a grip on Sanders, tackling him was never much of a problem, getting a hold of him on the other hand was not so easy.

ok if you say so

[Mahdi]

Funny you practically call better days right then call him wrong in the same sentence.

The whole point was Barry Sanders made a good living out of dodging the defense, not running through/ over them, or by throwing off tacklers which he did very little of in my opinion. Once you get a grip on Sanders, tackling him was never much of a problem, getting a hold of him on the other hand was not so easy.
On this Barry Sanders point I definitely don't agree.

Sanders was not just elusive, he was very tough to bring down, not because he would run through people but because his legs were VERY powerful, he had a low center of gravity and he had amazing balance. So when tacklers grabbed hold of him he was able to throw them off, twist out of tackles and bounce of tacklers.

Barry was not just speed and moves. He could break tackles better than almost any RB who ever played.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

What does Barry Sanders have to do with anything? CJ Spiller couldn't sniff Barry Sanders's jock strap, and it's shown.

[Figster]

On this Barry Sanders point I definitely don't agree.

Sanders was not just elusive, he was very tough to bring down, not because he would run through people but because his legs were VERY powerful, he had a low center of gravity and he had amazing balance. So when tacklers grabbed hold of him he was able to throw them off, twist out of tackles and bounce of tacklers.

Barry was not just speed and moves. He could break tackles better than almost any RB who ever played.


Funny they were just showing Barry Sanders highlights during the Seahawk, Eagles game last night and almost everything they showed was Sanders Juking what would be tacklers so bad they barely get a finger on him. Was Sanders strong, yes, but the bulk of Sanders yardage was made eluding would be tacklers, not shedding tackles.

[Mahdi]

Funny they were just showing Barry Sanders highlights during the Seahawk, Eagles game last night and almost everything they showed was Sanders Juking what would be tacklers so bad they barely get a finger on him. Was Sanders strong, yes, but the bulk of Sanders yardage was made eluding would be tacklers, not shedding tackles.
Ok watch this and tell me how many times he bounces off tacklers or sheds guys off him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU

[Figster]

Ok watch this and tell me how many times he bounces off tacklers or sheds guys off him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVFZYYzHPU




We've been shown highlights of Sanders shedding tacklers already, it doesn't change the fact that even the bulk of his highlights are Sanders completely out Juking defenders and making them look foolish.

Couple of highlights proves nothing, going by the bulk of his work he was elusive, and thats what Sanders was known for, his elusiveness, good grief...

[Mahdi]

We've been shown highlights of Sanders shedding tacklers already, it doesn't change the fact that even the bulk of his highlights are Sanders completely out Juking defenders and making them look foolish.

Couple of highlights proves nothing, going by the bulk of his work he was elusive, and thats what Sanders was known for, his elusiveness, good grief...
Again, although he was known for being elusive, he was just as good at breaking tackles because he had the power and the balance to do it.

[Philagape]

Anybody knows what Sanders was known for. That was never at issue. Straw man.

It takes better observation and memory to know what he could also do, which was by implication denied.

[better days]

Again, although he was known for being elusive, he was just as good at breaking tackles because he had the power and the balance to do it.

The ORIGINAL point was that Sanders NEEDED a HOLE to get through. He could not make his own hole. Yes, he was TOUGH to tackle in the OPEN FIELD, but at or behind the line, not so much.

Averaging TWO NEGATIVE plays per game for his career speaks to that. And that does not include all the plays from 0-5 yds. The point is not how hard Sanders was to tackle in the open field, the point is he NEEDED a hole to run through at the line.

[Ickybaluky]

The ORIGINAL point was that Sanders NEEDED a HOLE to get through. He could not make his own hole. Yes, he was TOUGH to tackle in the OPEN FIELD, but at or behind the line, not so much.

Averaging TWO NEGATIVE plays per game for his career speaks to that. And that does not include all the plays from 0-5 yds. The point is not how hard Sanders was to tackle in the open field, the point is he NEEDED a hole to run through at the line.

Sanders was the last guy that needed a hole, he was so elusive he ran around until he found space. For half his years in Detroit he had terrible blocking in front of him, but managed to average 5 yards a carry over 10 years and 3,000+ carries.

He took so many negative plays because he reversed field so much. However, those 2 negative plays a game were offset by the long runs he broke off, and he broke more than anyone.

Really, some of Sanders best runs were plays where he lost yardage or gained minimal yardage, because he would make about 4 guys miss before he was finally able to tackle. It was rare that one player would tackle Barry Sanders, because rarely could one guy do it.

[better days]

Sanders was the last guy that needed a hole, he was so elusive he ran around until he found space. For half his years in Detroit he had terrible blocking in front of him, but managed to average 5 yards a carry over 10 years and 3,000+ carries.

He took so many negative plays because he reversed field so much. However, those 2 negative plays a game were offset by the long runs he broke off, and he broke more than anyone.

Really, some of Sanders best runs were plays where he lost yardage or gained minimal yardage, because he would make about 4 guys miss before he was finally able to tackle. It was rare that one player would tackle Barry Sanders, because rarely could one guy do it.

One guy couldn't catch Barry, thats why it took more than one. If you look at actual games instead of highlights like I have, you would know he NEEDED a HOLE. If he did not have one, he was tackled at or behind the line. That is the FACT.

[Mahdi]

The ORIGINAL point was that Sanders NEEDED a HOLE to get through. He could not make his own hole. Yes, he was TOUGH to tackle in the OPEN FIELD, but at or behind the line, not so much.

Averaging TWO NEGATIVE plays per game for his career speaks to that. And that does not include all the plays from 0-5 yds. The point is not how hard Sanders was to tackle in the open field, the point is he NEEDED a hole to run through at the line.
Let me first say that I don't think the blocking was there for Spiller. I believe Spiller is a very talented RB and will show that in the weeks to come assuming we open holes for him.

Second, Barry was known to be running behind very poor OLs throughout his career. If he had Emmitt Smith's line or Thurman's, his records would be untouchable.

Third, Barry was hard to tackle ANYWHERE not just in space. The reason he had many negative plays was because of two things.
1. He had a weak OL

2. He was often trying to make BIG PLAYS, so he would spend a lot of time in the backfield breaking tackles and juking guys out only to get back to the LoS or lose a yard. That's why commentators would often say that Barry had the prettiest runs for no gain or losses.

[Mahdi]

One guy couldn't catch Barry, thats why it took more than one. If you look at actual games instead of highlights like I have, you would know he NEEDED a HOLE. If he did not have one, he was tackled at or behind the line. That is the FACT.
Friend, this is really not true. I loved watching Barry so I would make it a point to watch Detroit games whenever possible.

Barry did not need a hole to make something happen. He very very often created space for himself by breaking a tackle or making someone miss first, then breaking a long run.

[better days]

Let me first say that I don't think the blocking was there for Spiller. I believe Spiller is a very talented RB and will show that in the weeks to come assuming we open holes for him.

Second, Barry was known to be running behind very poor OLs throughout his career. If he had Emmitt Smith's line or Thurman's, his records would be untouchable.

Third, Barry was hard to tackle ANYWHERE not just in space. The reason he had many negative plays was because of two things.
1. He had a weak OL

2. He was often trying to make BIG PLAYS, so he would spend a lot of time in the backfield breaking tackles and juking guys out only to get back to the LoS or lose a yard. That's why commentators would often say that Barry had the prettiest runs for no gain or losses.

I agree he did not play behind a good line for much of his career. But like I said he COULD NOT make his own holes like The Bus or the A Train. He was not big enough to do that. It is that simple. Once past the line he did have the strength to break tackles, but he did not have the size to make his own holes.

[Ickybaluky]

One guy couldn't catch Barry, thats why it took more than one. If you look at actual games instead of highlights like I have, you would know he NEEDED a HOLE. If he did not have one, he was tackled at or behind the line. That is the FACT.

Actually, by definition, that is not a fact. A fact is an established truth, not something you just say. Barry did more with less blocking than any guy in NFL history.

Also, you fall back into trying to tell me something about myself, like how much I have watched Barry Sanders play. I know this is a tool you use because you don't have the actual football knowledge to make a coherent argument, but it really isn't necessary. I suppose if you were to to stick the actual argument and not engage in hyperbole or trying to deflect it to something else you would have little to say, so I understand it. However, it makes your posts look stupid.

For the record, I have been watching college and NFL football since the early 1970's. I don't really follow other sports, and watching games is what I do, whether live, collecting old games, or watching on NFL Game Rewind (a must for any fan). Apparently you feel you are the only person in the world who watched this guy play a lot, but you are not.

I have watched Barry play more than 95% of the people out there. The guy was elusive, but was also very strong. His legs and balance were incredible, which is why it took more than an arm tackle to get him. You had to wrap the guy up or he would spin off and be gone. He was incredible, and I'm sorry you can't appreciate that.

[Ickybaluky]

Check out this video:

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d801b364d/Barry-Sanders-Backward-Runs)

That has highlights from Barry's runs that lost yardage. Notice how many times he is reversing field or trying to make a bigger play and he gets caught. Risk/Reward.

Also, notice how many times more than one guy gets his hands on him. Rarely to do you see one guy make the tackle, usually it takes several. He runs through numbers of arm tackles, which takes incredible strength. Guys grab him and have to ride him down, because he is too strong to just go down.

No, he doesn't "make his own hole". He isn't a pile-mover. Yes, he is very elusive. However, he is a very strong runner. His style wouldn't work if he wasn't. Look how many tacklers he is able to escape from after they touch him. Look how many guys grab him, but he is able to get away because he is too strong.

Look at the 2:10 mark where he runs through tackle attempts by Darryl Talley and Cornelius Bennett and keeps his feet. Buffalo fans can tell you how good those guys were. Look at the 3:55 mark when he runs through tackles of about 4 Bears.

Dude was incredible.

[better days]

Actually, by definition, that is not a fact. A fact is an established truth, not something you just say. Barry did more with less blocking than any guy in NFL history.

Also, you fall back into trying to tell me something about myself, like how much I have watched Barry Sanders play. I know this is a tool you use because you don't have the actual football knowledge to make a coherent argument, but it really isn't necessary. I suppose if you were to to stick the actual argument and not engage in hyperbole or trying to deflect it to something else you would have little to say, so I understand it. However, it makes your posts look stupid.

For the record, I have been watching college and NFL football since the early 1970's. I don't really follow other sports, and watching games is what I do, whether live, collecting old games, or watching on NFL Game Rewind (a must for any fan). Apparently you feel you are the only person in the world who watched this guy play a lot, but you are not.

I have watched Barry play more than 95% of the people out there. The guy was elusive, but was also very strong. His legs and balance were incredible, which is why it took more than an arm tackle to get him. You had to wrap the guy up or he would spin off and be gone. He was incredible, and I'm sorry you can't appreciate that.

I don't care how strong Sanders was, he was not BIG enough to make his own holes. That is the fact. You have already said yourself he was not as big as Bettis to do that.

I don't care if you have watched football since the 70's. There was no direct TV or internet back then so unless a game was shown in your area you could not watch it. I moved to Fla in 1984 & became a Bucs fans because the only 2 teams I could watch were the Bucs & Fins.

Sports bars started in the early 90's with the HUGE dish on the roof & most had a limited number of games they showed. Direct TV Sunday ticket started in 1994 but was nowhere near as popular as today.

[better days]

Check out this video:

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d801b364d/Barry-Sanders-Backward-Runs)

That has highlights from Barry's runs that lost yardage. Notice how many times he is reversing field or trying to make a bigger play and he gets caught. Risk/Reward.

Also, notice how many times more than one guy gets his hands on him. Rarely to do you see one guy make the tackle, usually it takes several. He runs through numbers of arm tackles, which takes incredible strength. Guys grab him and have to ride him down, because he is too strong to just go down.

No, he doesn't "make his own hole". He isn't a pile-mover. Yes, he is very elusive. However, he is a very strong runner. His style wouldn't work if he wasn't. Look how many tacklers he is able to escape from after they touch him. Look how many guys grab him, but he is able to get away because he is too strong.

Look at the 2:10 mark where he runs through tackle attempts by Darryl Talley and Cornelius Bennett and keeps his feet. Buffalo fans can tell you how good those guys were. Look at the 3:55 mark when he runs through tackles of about 4 Bears.

Dude was incredible.

Well, FINALLY we have a resolution. Yes I agree Sanders was STRONG for his size & very tough to bring down once past the line of scrimmage.

The origional point that dog made & he was right is that EVEN Barry Sanders needed holes to go through. He was not the Bus or A-Train that could move the pile.

The games I saw Sanders play for the most part were against the Bucs. If you can find them on computer, the ENTIRE game watch them. You will see Sanders contained most of the game in some games & break a few long runs. Other games he just ran wild all game.

[Figster]

Well, FINALLY we have a resolution. Yes I agree Sanders was STRONG for his size & very tough to bring down once past the line of scrimmage.

The origional point that dog made & he was right is that EVEN Barry Sanders needed holes to go through. He was not the Bus or A-Train that could move the pile.

The games I saw Sanders play for the most part were against the Bucs. If you can find them on computer, the ENTIRE game watch them. You will see Sanders contained most of the game in some games & break a few long runs. Other games he just ran wild all game.

My original point to Philigape was you don't have to be a power runner to produce at the RB position, that speed and elusiveness can be just as impressive/productive as breaking tacklers with power running.

It was never a Spiller, Sanders comparison...

[Ickybaluky]

The games I saw Sanders play for the most part were against the Bucs. If you can find them on computer, the ENTIRE game watch them. You will see Sanders contained most of the game in some games & break a few long runs. Other games he just ran wild all game.

Sanders destroyed the Bucs probably as much as any other team. I bet he was better against them than any other team in the division, and I bet if you looked it up his YPC against them was in the top 10 of all teams he played (despite playing them so many times).

Sanders didn't need great blocking, he proved that throughout his career. Look at that highlight tape, his negative runs were him reversing the field and getting caught. Rarely did you see one guy bring down Barry.

[Ickybaluky]

My original point to Philigape was you don't have to a power runner to produce at the RB position, that speed and elusiveness can be just as impressive/productive as breaking tacklers with power running.

It was never a Spiller, Sanders comparison...

I'm not comparing them either. However, the point was Sanders was more than just fast and elusive. He was strong and hard to bring down. He wasn't a pile-pusher, but you had to have him wrapped up or he would break the tackle. Guys got hands out him, but he legs were so strong he would power his way out. He much much more than a home-run hitter.

Yeah, he wasn't Jerome Bettis, but he sure as hell easy to get a grip on. He didn't go down easy.

[Figster]

I'm not comparing them either. However, the point was Sanders was more than just fast and elusive. He was strong and hard to bring down. He wasn't a pile-pusher, but you had to have him wrapped up or he would break the tackle. Guys got hands out him, but he legs were so strong he would power his way out. He much much more than a home-run hitter.

Yeah, he wasn't Jerome Bettis, but he sure as hell easy to get a grip on. He didn't go down easy.


Between the two choices wouldn't you say Sanders was better known for his speed and elusiveness then his power running?

[mikemac2001]

....just bumping what did people think of him today

he seemed to run fast and hard i only saw some of the game (xs while at work)

[Philagape]

Running was much improved, but man he's gotta wipe the butter off his fingers

[Mahdi]

Running was much improved, but man he's gotta wipe the butter off his fingers
Yeah true he had a couple drops. But Spiller is trying to feel his way into being an every down RB while managing the expectation of being the 9th overall pick.

I think this kid is going to be amazing and he showed big time skills today in only his second start.

Not sure what happens with FJ now, what a tough spot for the FO to be in. Either you sign FJ to an extension and put Spiller back on the bench or you carry a disgruntled RB into next season without a new contract and lose him after next season.

As crazy as it might sound, it might be worth our while to trade FJ in the offseason for a high pick or player and improve other areas of the team.

We desperately need more picks or players anyway. We have Jonny White, Choice and Spiller. Nice combo of Rbs with various skill sets.

Kinda sad though to lose a player like FJ, especially with his character.

[EDS]

Yeah true he had a couple drops. But Spiller is trying to feel his way into being an every down RB while managing the expectation of being the 9th overall pick.

I think this kid is going to be amazing and he showed big time skills today in only his second start.

Not sure what happens with FJ now, what a tough spot for the FO to be in. Either you sign FJ to an extension and put Spiller back on the bench or you carry a disgruntled RB into next season without a new contract and lose him after next season.

As crazy as it might sound, it might be worth our while to trade FJ in the offseason for a high pick or player and improve other areas of the team.

We desperately need more picks or players anyway. We have Jonny White, Choice and Spiller. Nice combo of Rbs with various skill sets.

Kinda sad though to lose a player like FJ, especially with his character.

Yeah, lets trade away the teams best player . . .

[2slowtogofast]

Yeah, lets trade away the teams best player . . .

If you look to the future it makes sense. Spiller is probally going to be our RB in the future. It does him no good to waste away on the bench. Fred Jackson has limited time left in the league. Might as well get something for him now when his value is high.

[k-oneputt]

I thought Spiller played well. [outside of a couple of drops}.
Running the ball we are starting to see him get it and with his speed he is a threat to go the distance.
As much as I like Freedie I would be on board for moving him if the price is right. Minimum 3rd rd though. Not giving him away and I don't know if anyone would give a 3rd at his age honestly.

[mikemac2001]

Yeah, lets trade away the teams best player . . .


he is also one of the leaders its hard for me to say trade him just because of that leader

he was the best RB in the league in the first 6-7 games then injuries to our oline and D started to hurt us. i say pay him he earned it, but if a team offered us a good package idk how you can turn it down.

overall its a win/win lose/lose situation

keeping him you have great depth and leadership
trading him you can fill holes and give spiller (who looked good) his time

[justasportsfan]

As crazy as it might sound, it might be worth our while to trade FJ in the offseason for a high pick or player and improve other areas of the team.



what??? Trade away more proven players and stick with non-proven players? I guess some people love losing around here.

[Ickybaluky]

what??? Trade away more proven players and stick with non-proven players? I guess some people love losing around here.

Spiller's potential is pretty high. You can't coach speed, and the kid is explosive. I can't believe Gailey didn't get him more than 3 carries in the 2nd half. He would have had an even bigger day if he hadn't had a long run called back, and when you have a hot back you have to keep feeding him the ball.

I agree the Bills should probably hold onto Jackson, because you don't know if Spiller will reach his potential. But Spiller has electric, and he has to get more touches, even if Jackson is brought back.

[pats-were-right]

Eh -

• Buffalo Bills running back C.J. Spiller(notes) had a decent day if you’re looking at it only from a statistical standpoint. He had 83 yards rushing on 14 carries and caught three passes for 19 yards. This is nothing close to what the Bills expected of him when he was the No. 9 overall pick in the 2010 draft. Spiller’s biggest problems: he doesn’t run that hard and rarely breaks a tackle. Throw in that he’s not nearly as explosive as Sunday counterpart Chris Johnson and it’s getting real close to declaring Spiller a bust.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AqAZOaHN6R7AevtVLQ8_DyRDubYF?slug=jc-cole_winners_losers_tim_tebow_broncos_passing_120411

I'm sensing Laurence Maroney version 2.0

[Figster]

what??? Trade away more proven players and stick with non-proven players? I guess some people love losing around here.



I love Fred Jackson , but he is getting up there in age and If CJ proves he can carry the load and score TD's like he did in college then we may have an opportunity to improve the team with a trade/ high draft pick.

It does us zero good to have two capable RB's, both needing touches to be productive, and have one of them sitting on the bench. Be nice to have the luxury of not having a lot of holes to fill, or positions we need added depth but the Buffalo Bills are not there yet, not even close.

FJ may become expendable IF CJ continues to play well in my opinion

[better days]

If you look to the future it makes sense. Spiller is probally going to be our RB in the future. It does him no good to waste away on the bench. Fred Jackson has limited time left in the league. Might as well get something for him now when his value is high.

Well, the Bills only got a 4th for Lynch. I doubt they can get anymore than that for Jackson who is OLDER, was injured this year & only has one year left on his contract. Aside from being MUCH younger, Lynch had a couple years on his contract when the Bills traded him.

[EDS]

I love Fred Jackson , but he is getting up there in age and If CJ proves he can carry the load and score TD's like he did in college then we may have an opportunity to improve the team with a trade/ high draft pick.

It does us zero good to have two capable RB's, both needing touches to be productive, and have one of them sitting on the bench. Be nice to have the luxury of not having a lot of holes to fill, or positions we need added depth but the Buffalo Bills are not there yet, not even close.

FJ may become expendable IF CJ continues to play well in my opinion

Clearly no teams view having two capable backs as important. Clearly.

[Philagape]

Eh -

• Buffalo Bills running back C.J. Spiller(notes) had a decent day if you’re looking at it only from a statistical standpoint. He had 83 yards rushing on 14 carries and caught three passes for 19 yards. This is nothing close to what the Bills expected of him when he was the No. 9 overall pick in the 2010 draft. Spiller’s biggest problems: he doesn’t run that hard and rarely breaks a tackle. Throw in that he’s not nearly as explosive as Sunday counterpart Chris Johnson and it’s getting real close to declaring Spiller a bust.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AqAZOaHN6R7AevtVLQ8_DyRDubYF?slug=jc-cole_winners_losers_tim_tebow_broncos_passing_120411

I'm sensing Laurence Maroney version 2.0

Add 41 yards and a touchdown that were called back on a penalty that did not make a difference on the play, and he had 121 yards and 2 TDs in the first half. He ran hard and broke tackles. He does better the more work he gets, which makes it maddening that he got only three carries in the second half.
If Gailey didn't have such a hard-on for the pass, there would be room for two backs.

[justasportsfan]

Spiller's potential is pretty high. You can't coach speed, and the kid is explosive. I can't believe Gailey didn't get him more than 3 carries in the 2nd half. He would have had an even bigger day if he hadn't had a long run called back, and when you have a hot back you have to keep feeding him the ball.

I agree the Bills should probably hold onto Jackson, because you don't know if Spiller will reach his potential. But Spiller has electric, and he has to get more touches, even if Jackson is brought back.


Until Spiller reaches his potential, we keep Jackson. Thats all I'm saying.

[justasportsfan]

I love Fred Jackson , but he is getting up there in age and If CJ proves he can carry the load and score TD's like he did in college then we may have an opportunity to improve the team with a trade/ high draft pick.

It does us zero good to have two capable RB's, both needing touches to be productive, and have one of them sitting on the bench. Be nice to have the luxury of not having a lot of holes to fill, or positions we need added depth but the Buffalo Bills are not there yet, not even close.

FJ may become expendable IF CJ continues to play well in my opinion


If we get rid of Freddie and Spiller gets injured, what then? I don't think FJ gets expendable because he can also catch . They become a big headache when both can run and catch. Right now Spiller hasn't proven to be able to run consistently.

[madness]

Clearly no teams view having two capable backs as important. Clearly. Then there's Chan Gailey who isn't cable with three backs....

Lynch's return allows Coach Gailey to utilize the multiple-back sets that he has commented on throughout the off season. The Bills are very deep at the running back position, and we saw certain packages with both C.J. Spiller and Marshawn Lynch on the field at the same time against the Washington Redskins. Having Lynch back gives more options for the Buffalo offense, who will try to make the best use out of the weapons at their disposal, due to the lack of quality depth at the wide receiver positions.
Fred Jackson's return to practice is a good sign, and he even took the first rep with the first team offense, but it is important that he returns to full health before taking the field, as the team can't afford to sustain another injury to a key member of the squad. I mean... two backs...

This deal removes some clutter from the depth chart in Buffalo, which of course helps CJ Spiller (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/23984/)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/23984/news). The rookie had a spectacular preseason for the Bills, but he's only received 6.5 touches per week through four games. He gets a friendly home match-up with Jacksonville on Sunday, then a bye. Fred Jackson's (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8063/)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8063/news) stock also rises here, as the Bills clearly prefer not to use Spiller as a full-workload back. Expect both players to see 12-15 touches per game. While Jackson will likely handle the early-down work, the Bills will try and get the ball in Spiller's hands in the open field through screens and outside runs, giving him chances to break a long gain at every turn.
oh screw it. That bastard Cowher lied to us... you too Herman Edwards. :mad:

Cowher told us a lot of OC's say they want to run the ball but Gailey is the only man who means it.

"But if he could have it his way, he's an old-time football coach," Herm Edwards said. "He wants to run the ball and control the clock. Stay out of third and long. He's going to do that. He doesn't like to see his team make penalties or turn the ball over offensively."
"I think at the end of the day he'd love to be a power running football team," Huard said. "That's what we tried to do in Miami. At the end of the day he'd also love a quarterback who's very mobile, which I wasn't, so I don't think I was one of his favorite quarterbacks. But he's got the flexibility in his system to adjust to what he has."

[better days]

If we get rid of Freddie and Spiller gets injured, what then? I don't think FJ gets expendable because he can also catch . They become a big headache when both can run and catch. Right now Spiller hasn't proven to be able to run consistently.

Well, I said when Fred was injured NOW is the time for CJ to show us what he has. His 2nd game as a starter was better than his 1st. Hopefully he keeps improving.

That said, the Bills could not get anything worthwhile for Jackson in a trade & Spiller can not carry the load alone over an entire season.

Maybe Chan knew Spiller needed the rest in the 2nd half & thats why he didn't give him the carries then.

[Figster]

Well, I said when Fred was injured NOW is the time for CJ to show us what he has. His 2nd game as a starter was better than his 1st. Hopefully he keeps improving.

That said, the Bills could not get anything worthwhile for Jackson in a trade & Spiller can not carry the load alone over an entire season.

Maybe Chan knew Spiller needed the rest in the 2nd half & thats why he didn't give him the carries then.

I believe FJ would be worth a 3 to the right team and we should have/could have obtained a 3 for Marshawn.

CJ might be an excellent starter and like I said, they both want to start and they both need touches in an Offense that likes to throw the ball so one of them gets wasted. Take that 3rd round draft pick and draft something we need more.

Lots of holes to fill right now...

[better days]

I believe FJ would be worth a 3 to the right team and we should have/could have obtained a 3 for Marshawn.

CJ might be an excellent starter and like I said, they both want to start and they both need touches in an Offense that likes to throw the ball so one of them gets wasted. Take that 3rd round draft pick and draft something we need more.

Lots of holes to fill right now...

There is no way the Bills could get a 3rd for a 31 year old RB. I doubt they could get a 4th.

[Mahdi]

Clearly no teams view having two capable backs as important. Clearly.
Two capable RBs, yes, one All-Pro and a top 10 pick in the wings, no. It doesn't work, you can't bench Spiller and you can't take FJ off the field half the time.

A choice will have to be made:

1) You pay FJ and keep him as your work horse that doesn't come off the field except to take a breather

2) You start Spiller because he is the future and let FJ walk for free after next season

3) You trade FJ for assets, use your top 10 pick as the starter.

4) Trade Spiller.

[Ed]

I don't see why we can't just keep both. Everyone around here complains about our lack of depth, but it seems like every time a young player does something good, everyone's a little too eager to start getting rid of people. RB's take a pounding and get hurt all the time, so why shoot ourselves in the foot by getting rid of a talented player? You need two good RB's these days, and we seem to have a couple right now. Both can bring something a little different to the table too, which gives us more flexibility in play calling. I can't see CJ getting 300-400 carries a year, and there's no reason to have Freddie pound the ball 30 times a game when we have a player like CJ. You can use both and use both effectively.

So I say just give Freddie a decent raise with a front loaded deal, and re-evaluate where we're at in a couple years.

[Philagape]

I don't see why we can't just keep both. Everyone around here complains about our lack of depth, but it seems like every time a young player does something good, everyone's a little too eager to start getting rid of people. RB's take a pounding and get hurt all the time, so why shoot ourselves in the foot by getting rid of a talented player? You need two good RB's these days, and we seem to have a couple right now. Both can bring something a little different to the table too, which gives us more flexibility in play calling. I can't see CJ getting 300-400 carries a year, and there's no reason to have Freddie pound the ball 30 times a game when we have a player like CJ. You can use both and use both effectively.

So I say just give Freddie a decent raise with a front loaded deal, and re-evaluate where we're at in a couple years.

Agreed. The benefit of keeping Fred would outweigh whatever pick they manage to get for him. The wild-card is if Gailey can finally figure out how to use both

[Beebe's Kid]

Agreed. The benefit of keeping Fred would outweigh whatever pick they manage to get for him. The wild-card is if Gailey can finally figure out how to use both

I have it all figured out on Madden....what the hell is Chan's problem?

Also Kirk Morrison is a 78, why isn't he playing?

[k-oneputt]

The bottom line is the Bills will not want to pay the 31 yr. old rb, so unless Spiller falls on his face the next four weeks expect the following to happen,

1. They move Freddie
2. They keep both but don't give Freddie an extension and he plays next season on the last year of his contract along with Spiller. {pissed off}
3. They extend and pay Freddie with Spiller going back to 2nd fiddle. { Can't see this happening}

[djjimkelly]

I have it all figured out on Madden....what the hell is Chan's problem?

Also Kirk Morrison is a 78, why isn't he playing?


lol i miss playing madden

[EDS]

Two capable RBs, yes, one All-Pro and a top 10 pick in the wings, no. It doesn't work, you can't bench Spiller and you can't take FJ off the field half the time.

A choice will have to be made:

1) You pay FJ and keep him as your work horse that doesn't come off the field except to take a breather

2) You start Spiller because he is the future and let FJ walk for free after next season

3) You trade FJ for assets, use your top 10 pick as the starter.

4) Trade Spiller.

Tell that to Houston. Every team needs two good backs these days. Obviously it is a shame Buddy wasted such a high pick on a RB, but that does not mean you trade the best, most professional player on your team. That is moving backwards.

I would much rather trade Spiller who has not come close to justifying his lofty draft position.

[SABURZFAN]

I have it all figured out on Madden....what the hell is Chan's problem?

Also Kirk Morrison is a 78, why isn't he playing?


i think we have Edwards' replacement right here. :up:

[kingJofNYC]

C.J. Spiller picked up just 30.9% of his 123 yards after contact. Get that man in space and he’s hard to get a hand on.

From PFF

[Mahdi]

Tell that to Houston. Every team needs two good backs these days. Obviously it is a shame Buddy wasted such a high pick on a RB, but that does not mean you trade the best, most professional player on your team. That is moving backwards.

I would much rather trade Spiller who has not come close to justifying his lofty draft position.
Houston didn't draft Tate 9th overall, not even Foster.

Maybe White will be our Tate, or even Choice.

[Figster]

There is no way the Bills could get a 3rd for a 31 year old RB. I doubt they could get a 4th.

I respectfully disagree and I believe FJ would be worth a middle to late round 3 for the right football team.

Myself personally, taking Fred Jacksons leadership abilities into account along with Fred's exceptional running and receiving skills and he could be the final piece to the Championship puzzle for a team thats real close in my opinion.

[Mahdi]

Just to clarify, as a fan, I don't want FJ traded. Class act, great player, hard worker.

But a GM will have to make a tough decision...

[TigerJ]

One difference between Jackson and Spiller is that Jackson had Eric Wood Blocking for him in the middle of the line for most of the season. While Jackson certainly has unusual vision for a running back, once injuries force substitutions and shuffling of the line around he wasn't as effective as he was earlier in the season. I think to say Spiller can't be effective running the ball is debateable.

[better days]

I respectfully disagree and I believe FJ would be worth a middle to late round 3 for the right football team.

Myself personally, taking Fred Jacksons leadership abilities into account along with Fred's exceptional running and receiving skills and he could be the final piece to the Championship puzzle for a team thats real close in my opinion.

Well, I thought the Bills should get at least a 3rd for Lynch, more likely a 2nd................they didn't. Lynch will be a FA after this season along with some other RBs. He is only 25.

I doubt any team will give up a 3rd for a 31 year old RB that was injured the year before & will want a contract that PAYS him. Draft picks are much cheaper, may turn out to be better & will play for more years.

[stuckincincy]

There is no way the Bills could get a 3rd for a 31 year old RB. I doubt they could get a 4th.

Doubtful, but possible. Perhaps some team with a fistful of picks - including a 3rd round supplemental...

Priest Holmes was just shy of 28 when traded to KC for the 2001 season. He had no carries in his 1st season with BAL (1997), and 459 in the subsequent three - ave. of 115 carries/year, FWIW.

When he retired in Nov 2007 after six years with KC, he held the Chief's records for attempts (1,275), rush yards (5,933), rush TDs (76) and total TDs (83), and three all-pro awards.

Fred has 817 carries over six years, ave. of 136. He also had no carries his first season.

So if the "low mileage on the body" concept is bought into, Fred looks ok.

[sqad5]

Anybody have the video of cj spiller's 41 yard touchdown called back for a penalty,i just wanna see it

[User Manuel]

I think he has been pretty good and his big play ability, shown on both TDS (even the one called back) really opened up play action. I really like what I have seen. Ya cant blame him for 3 carries in the 2nd half.

[justasportsfan]

Just to clarify, as a fan, I don't want FJ traded. Class act, great player, hard worker.

But a GM will have to make a tough decision...


Nix screwed up by letting Evans go and went with an unproven cast in Jones and co. That blew up in his face.

He's at risk making the same mistake if he thinks getting rid of the ONLY consistent player on the team is the way to go. Chan has said it repleatedly, he doesnt care who was drafted where.

Spiller and FJ can coexist on this team.

[Mahdi]

I think we saw yesterday why CJ is a top 10 pick. Nothing he can't do and that is why you draft the second all time leader in yards from scrimmage when you get the chance...

His explosiveness was fun to watch and if our passing game would get on track and he wasn't on the bench he would be leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage also.

Imagine Spiller in the Saints offense.... it would be Marshall Faulk all over again. And I know he isn't Marshall Faulk, yet, but he has that skill set to run inside, outside, make big plays, catch the ball from anywhere on the field etc.

I'll say again that I love FJ, but Spiller and Fred cannot co-exist on this team seeing as how both of them can do everything and will want to be on the field.

The second problem is that you don't want to lose FJ for nothing. The Giants would love to have FJ.

[Night Train]

Overdorf (from orders by Wilson/Littman) screwed up by letting Evans go and went with an unproven cast in Jones and co. That blew up in his face.

He's at risk making the same mistake if he thinks getting rid of the ONLY consistent player on the team is the way to go. Chan has said it repleatedly, he doesnt care who was drafted where.

Spiller and FJ can coexist on this team.

Corrected.

[better days]

Corrected.

You may have a valid point.