Good article about Stevie

[DesertFox24]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/16294148/tenpoint-stance-league-will-study-johnsons-escape-from-revis-island

You guys realize that if we won this game everyone of those people saying Stevie is an idiot would be all over him right now for doing what no one has done.

[Forward_Lateral]

Last time I checked, the only thing that matters is winning. The Bills didn't win, so who cares if SJ had 20 catches for 400 yards.

[OpIv37]

Once again, creating a hypothetical situation then basing an argument on your guess of how people would have reacted to a situation that never have occurred.

Once again, Stevie didn't do what it takes to win the game. Heaping praise on him because he beat Revis when he also took a mind-numbingly stupid penalty and dropped what was potentially the game-winning TD is accepting mediocrity. And for that, you earn the Krusty Brand Seal of Approval.

http://tomkorioth.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/krustybrandgif2.gif

Defending Stevie after that penalty is on par with the morons who defended Whitner after he got a penalty for tackling that WR 8 yards deep in the endzone. And that's not even mentioning the stupid drop.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's like the playoff game the Bills lost to Miami when Eric Moulds broke records. Nobody cared because the Bills lost.

[better days]

Once again, creating a hypothetical situation then basing an argument on your guess of how people would have reacted to a situation that never have occurred.

Once again, Stevie didn't do what it takes to win the game. Heaping praise on him because he beat Revis when he also took a mind-numbingly stupid penalty and dropped what was potentially the game-winning TD is accepting mediocrity. And for that, you earn the Krusty Brand Seal of Approval.

http://tomkorioth.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/krustybrandgif2.gif

Defending Stevie after that penalty is on par with the morons who defended Whitner after he got a penalty for tackling that WR 8 yards deep in the endzone. And that's not even mentioning the stupid drop.

I agree Stevie screwed the pooch in that game. I think he is still a good WR & want the Bills to resign him otherwise it is just another hole the Bills will need to fill.

Let's just hope he has learned his lesson & matures as far as celebrations go & that he learns to concentrate a little better.

[OpIv37]

I agree Stevie screwed the pooch in that game. I think he is still a good WR & want the Bills to resign him otherwise it is just another hole the Bills will need to fill.

Let's just hope he has learned his lesson & matures as far as celebrations go & that he learns to concentrate a little better.

I agree for the most part- I just hope we don't give him a ridiculous contract.

I think there are two different issues that somehow got combined in this Stevie argument that's been raging on this board this week: Should he be re-signed, and did he screw up on Sunday?

Some people who want him to be re-signed think they also need to defend him for Sunday, which isn't necessarily true.

[Pinkerton Security]

Last time I checked, the only thing that matters is winning. The Bills didn't win, so who cares if SJ had 20 catches for 400 yards.

My interpretation of this thread is to combat those other idiotic threads implying we should let Stevie walk. Did he do some stupid things in the game? Definitely. Did he also play very well for 95% of the game against the best CB in football? absolutely. But people are too frikkin stupid to realize, or else they are just pissed off because of the loss and his late drop and dont want to admit that he played well.

[EDS]

He would have been an idiot for what he did even if the team won. Celebrate when you score, sure, but to mock someone while doing so is classless.

Does Fred Jackson do stuff like this? No, because he is a professional.

[OpIv37]

My interpretation of this thread is to combat those other idiotic threads implying we should let Stevie walk. Did he do some stupid things in the game? Definitely. Did he also play very well for 95% of the game against the best CB in football? absolutely. But people are too frikkin stupid to realize, or else they are just pissed off because of the loss and his late drop and dont want to admit that he played well.

See Krusty seal above.

He played well, but not well enough. And keep in mind that he made two stupid mistakes- the drop and the penalty- that hurt the team.

Does that mean we should let him walk? Not necessarily (although the mental mistakes are infuriating and could be construed as a reason to let him walk), but it just irritates the hell out of me to hear supposed "fans" of the Bills defend a guy who made two crucial mental errors in a close game that led to the loss.

[DesertFox24]

My interpretation of this thread is to combat those other idiotic threads implying we should let Stevie walk. Did he do some stupid things in the game? Definitely. Did he also play very well for 95% of the game against the best CB in football? absolutely. But people are too frikkin stupid to realize, or else they are just pissed off because of the loss and his late drop and dont want to admit that he played well.

My point exactly.

Oh and these same people that want the bills to let him walk (Merril Hodge being the biggest) would destroy buffalo for letting him go when he becomes a super star for San Fran or some other team.

For the record it was a dumb penalty and it cost the team a win more than likely. Hopefully it never happens again and hopefully this team can rebound and win 3 to 4 more games and end the season on a high note and learn about being consistent.

They wanted to win early last year, proved they could late in the year
Believed they could win early in the year, got over confident in the middle, hopefully they remember they need to work and know they are supposed to win late in year

Next year hopefully that carries over and we have a much more consistent and hopefully more talented team.

[justasportsfan]

I would have rather have Stevie get one catch that would have won us the game over his nos. vs. Reevis.

[DesertFox24]

See Krusty seal above.

He played well, but not well enough. And keep in mind that he made two stupid mistakes- the drop and the penalty- that hurt the team.

Does that mean we should let him walk? Not necessarily (although the mental mistakes are infuriating and could be construed as a reason to let him walk), but it just irritates the hell out of me to hear supposed "fans" of the Bills defend a guy who made two crucial mental errors in a close game that led to the loss.

Name a HOF receiver who has not dropped a potentially game winning or game clinching catch. They all have.

No I am not saying Stevie is a HOF, but the guy is 25 and has at least 8 more seasons of potentially great play, and I want those seasons to be in a bill uniform.

[Philagape]

My interpretation of this thread is to combat those other idiotic threads implying we should let Stevie walk. Did he do some stupid things in the game? Definitely. Did he also play very well for 95% of the game against the best CB in football? absolutely. But people are too frikkin stupid to realize, or else they are just pissed off because of the loss and his late drop and dont want to admit that he played well.

To win a game like that, he needs to play well for 100 percent. He needs to finish.

It's like a goalie who's lights out for two periods but then lets in an inexcusable softie to lose the game 2-1.
Is he the sole reason they lost? No. Is he one of the reasons they lost? Yes.

[OpIv37]

Name a HOF receiver who has not dropped a potentially game winning or game clinching catch. They all have.

No I am not saying Stevie is a HOF, but the guy is 25 and has at least 8 more seasons of potentially great play, and I want those seasons to be in a bill uniform.

When Stevie puts up the numbers and makes the big catches that HOF receivers make, then you can make the comparison. But not until.

I think the lack of maturity is a big concern. He didn't take responsibility on Twitter last year after the drop and he did the same thing this year. And that penalty was inexcusable. Those are the reasons why I would hesitate on giving him a huge contract.

I'm not saying that we should definitely let him walk. It depends on a lot of factors: who else is available, how much he wants, how he finishes the season, etc.

[Stewie]

I'd rather Stevie learn his lesson now, rather than say throw his helmet during the superbowl. If he can find it. :P

[DesertFox24]

When Stevie puts up the numbers and makes the big catches that HOF receivers make, then you can make the comparison. But not until.

I think the lack of maturity is a big concern. He didn't take responsibility on Twitter last year after the drop and he did the same thing this year. And that penalty was inexcusable. Those are the reasons why I would hesitate on giving him a huge contract.

I'm not saying that we should definitely let him walk. It depends on a lot of factors: who else is available, how much he wants, how he finishes the season, etc.

Um yes he did take responsibility for both drops.

He worked all off season on that throw catch combo so it would not happen again.

He also said last week was a result of him not getting his head around fast enough.

Also I never said he was a HOF I said name one that has not had critical drops.

TO and Randy are the most recent WR that will go in the Hall and both had big time critical drops and big catches to win games.

Also stevie had some big time catches last year to keep us in games and win games.

KC last year to force OT, New England the first game he caught that long TD to keep game close in second half, Cincy, New England this year.

Yes I agree he should get some of the blame, I believe all 53 players and the coaches should. There were at least three occasions in the game where we called a run into an obvious all out blitz Fitz should have checked to something else. The most critical one was on the drive that could have iced the win and Choice was drilled for minus 4 yards. Everyone is at fault not just him. What about Raynor for the shank, or Gailey for calling the kick. They were afraid of the returner breaking one out past the jet 40, well kick it out of bounds and they have the ball on the jet 40 better than the bills 38.

What makes me mad is that you guys say our players suck and we should not pay them, and always talk about other guys. Then in three years when Stevie is let go you will ***** that we were cheap and should have resigned him.

You did with Fletcher and Winfield. Everyone wanted Pat Williams resigned. Peters was split 50/50 and to be honest I am not sure he is much better than Bell/Hairston, also he got us Wood which is our Center for the next 10 years.

[OpIv37]

What makes me mad is that you guys say our players suck and we should not pay them, and always talk about other guys. Then in three years when Stevie is let go you will ***** that we were cheap and should have resigned him.
.

You're getting mad about how you assume people will react in a hypothetical situation that hasn't occurred yet? You need to calm down.

Look, it's about winning. It doesn't matter what people say, or if they're right or wrong about whether the team should keep guys. It's the FO's job to make the best decisions so the team wins games. If the FO makes the wrong decision, fans are going to be upset. The FO gets paid millions of dollars to make the right decision and put a winning team on the field, not the fans. And the FO deserves the criticism when they make the wrong choice.

[Pinkerton Security]

See Krusty seal above.

He played well, but not well enough. And keep in mind that he made two stupid mistakes- the drop and the penalty- that hurt the team.

Does that mean we should let him walk? Not necessarily (although the mental mistakes are infuriating and could be construed as a reason to let him walk), but it just irritates the hell out of me to hear supposed "fans" of the Bills defend a guy who made two crucial mental errors in a close game that led to the loss.

I see what you're saying...im not defending his mistakes. As you said before this discussion has kinda combined the Stevie's contract situation and his play on Sunday...I am really not talking about his play Sunday.

I am simply pointing out that in terms of Stevie as an overall player, I personally think we should do whatever we can to lock up one of the only real playmakers this team has, even if he does have some boneheaded plays from time to time.

[TigerJ]

It's obvious Stevie Johnson has some physical skills. He has to get more consistent and grow up some (ie. stop taking stupid penalties, cut down on his drops, and stop disappearing in some games - the three games prior to the second game versus the Jets).

[Historian]

He would have been an idiot for what he did even if the team won. Celebrate when you score, sure, but to mock someone while doing so is classless.

Does Fred Jackson do stuff like this? No, because he is a professional.

"Be humble when you lose...be even more humble when you win." -Marv Levy

[DesertFox24]

You're getting mad about how you assume people will react in a hypothetical situation that hasn't occurred yet? You need to calm down.

Look, it's about winning. It doesn't matter what people say, or if they're right or wrong about whether the team should keep guys. It's the FO's job to make the best decisions so the team wins games. If the FO makes the wrong decision, fans are going to be upset. The FO gets paid millions of dollars to make the right decision and put a winning team on the field, not the fans. And the FO deserves the criticism when they make the wrong choice.

Trust me I know it is about winning 12 years no playoffs sucks monkey balls. However, I also know the only way for us to get to the playoffs is to keep quality talent in buffalo. For the past decade buffalo for reasons we may never truly know, can only make educated assumptions, always lets quality talent go. As a result we are constantly working with young players or old vets and hoping it works, and when we finally see a ray of light with the young players they are gone.

In other words I am sick and tired of rinse and repeat. We need to keep talent in Buffalo at all cost.

I understand we will never overpay for FA or sign guys at midnight or even the first week, but we better keep our stars in Buffalo, or do like the steelers and have drafted their replacement 2 years early so there is not a drastic drop off.

The steelers are already prepared for life without Aaron Smith, because they drafted Cam Heyward in 2010. He might not be as good as Smith or he could be better but he will be in his third year and has valuable experience that rookies and second year guys do not have. Also year three is the year the guys usually get it or dont.

[djjimkelly]

It's like the playoff game the Bills lost to Miami when Eric Moulds broke records. Nobody cared because the Bills lost.

i remember flutie choking

[Mad Bomber]

He would have been an idiot for what he did even if the team won. Celebrate when you score, sure, but to mock someone while doing so is classless.

Does Fred Jackson do stuff like this? No, because he is a professional.

How about David Nelson? He hands the ball to the ref. He acts like he's been there before.

[better days]

i remember flutie choking

When was that? The Bills could have made it to the Super Bowl if Johnson did not play against the Titans because Flutie would have put that game out of reach.

[justasportsfan]

"Be humble when you lose...be even more humble when you win." -Marv Levy


"Without ME ,I'd only be Aweso" - justa

[better days]

"Without ME ,I'd only be Aweso" - justa

You should get that line to TO, he would love to take it as his own.

[RoscoeMagic]

He's 3rd tier league-wide, but 1st tier compared to the other WR's on this team.

Man, how did a third tier WR beat Revis?

Op, you know everything, care to answer?

[OpIv37]

Man, how did a third tier WR beat Revis?

Op, you know everything, care to answer?

He didn't beat Revis when it counted the most. He choked.

Once again, accepting mediocrity. Putting up numbers against Revis means nothing if we don't win the game. Stevie also got a stupid penalty and dropped a game winning TD for the second time in a year, but according to you it doesn't matter because he put up numbers against Revis. In 2 losses.

I will never understand why people insist on defending players who keep us from getting wins.

[RoscoeMagic]

He didn't beat Revis when it counted the most.
Yes he did. He was clearly wide open. He, by definition, BEAT Revis. He just dropped the ball.

I didn't quote the rest of your post because it's another one of your more than lame attempts to dodge the question again by putting words in my mouth. You believe Steve Johnson is third tier. Yet he made the best cornerback in football look very very very average the entire game.

Either find me a 3rd tier WR that can make Revis look human or change your original stance that Stevie is 3rd tier.

[OpIv37]

Yes he did. He was clearly wide open. He, by definition, BEAT Revis. He just dropped the ball.



Oh, he ONLY dropped the ball when he was WIDE OPEN when the GAME WAS ON THE LINE.

Thanks for clarifying.

Another lame attempt to defend a player who didn't do what it takes to win the game.

[RoscoeMagic]

Oh, he ONLY dropped the ball when he was WIDE OPEN when the GAME WAS ON THE LINE.

Thanks for clarifying.

Another lame attempt to defend a player who didn't do what it takes to win the game.
I'm going by the book definition of "beating."

How often do we say, "Florence got beat badly! Good thing Sanchez overthrew the pass so it was incomplete, but Holmes was wide open."

Yeah, interchange the names if you'd like, but the concept remains the same.

If you wanna say, Stevie dropped the ball, then yes he dropped the ball. If you wanna say he didn't get the best of Revis on the route he ran, then no, that would be false. He beat Revis, hence he was wide ****ing open. He just dropped the pass.

Am I defending him? What planet are you on? DROPPED PASSES ARE BAD. HE DID A BAD THING. Do I need to send this to you in a PM as well?

Thanks for dodging the third tier conundrum again, though. You make yourself look more and more like an ass in each post. :up:

[OpIv37]

I'm going by the book definition of "beating."

How often do we say, "Florence got beat badly! Good thing Sanchez overthrew the pass so it was incomplete, but Holmes was wide open."

Yeah, interchange the names if you'd like, but the concept remains the same.

If you wanna say, Stevie dropped the ball, then yes he dropped the ball. If you wanna say he didn't get the best of Revis on the route he ran, then no, that would be false. He beat Revis, hence he was wide ****ing open. He just dropped the pass.

Am I defending him? What planet are you on? DROPPED PASSES ARE BAD. HE DID A BAD THING. Do I need to send this to you in a PM as well?

Thanks for dodging the third tier conundrum again, though. You make yourself look more and more like an ass in each post. :up:

Look, you're arguing semantics. He screwed up regardless of whether or not he beat Revis. He screwed up and made stupid mistakes in a close game that contributed greatly to the loss. If you want to let that go because he has better numbers than 3rd tier WR's and because he put up numbers against Revis in 2 losses, go right ahead, but don't be surprised when he continues to make mental mistakes and we continue to lose.

[RoscoeMagic]

Look, you're arguing semantics. He screwed up regardless of whether or not he beat Revis. He screwed up and made stupid mistakes in a close game that contributed greatly to the loss. If you want to let that go because he has better numbers than 3rd tier WR's and because he put up numbers against Revis in 2 losses, go right ahead, but don't be surprised when he continues to make mental mistakes and we continue to lose.
You dodge again. First of all, I'm arguing your own exact words. If you don't want to drag the possibility of semantics into it, don't be so damn vague when you say something. You claimed he "didn't beat Revis." Clearly he beat Revis.

"He screwed up regardless of whether or not he beat Revis." That's better. See? Everyone agrees and your whining is actually justified for a change.

"If you want to let that go because he has better numbers than 3rd tier WR's and because he put up numbers against Revis in 2 losses, go right ahead" NO. How thick are you? Clearly that's not what I want.

Remind me why I posted in this thread to begin with. You dodged this issue in the other thread, so I came here.

You claim Steve Johnson is clearly a third tier WR around the NFL. He is more like a 3rd or 4th you claim, yet somehow cannot elaborate on how such a third tier player could possibly beat the best cover corner in the game.

Why does this little issue bother me so much? Well, because it proves you have absolutely zero accountability in your posts and run amuck bashing Bills fans for their "acceptance of mediocrity."

Hey, pal. You're a hypocrite. You know why? Because you clearly accept mediocrity in your own posts. You have zero accountability for your accusations. Your claim that Stevie is third tier is a mediocre one at best. If you don't want to be mediocre, man up to your claim, and say you were wrong.

Or if you don't think you're wrong, by all means, stop dodging my question and tell me which other third tier WR in the NFL can make Revis look like an average player.

[OpIv37]

You dodge again. First of all, I'm arguing your own exact words. If you don't want to drag the possibility of semantics into it, don't be so damn vague when you say something. You claimed he "didn't beat Revis." Clearly he beat Revis.

"He screwed up regardless of whether or not he beat Revis." That's better. See? Everyone agrees and your whining is actually justified for a change.

"If you want to let that go because he has better numbers than 3rd tier WR's and because he put up numbers against Revis in 2 losses, go right ahead" NO. How thick are you? Clearly that's not what I want.

Remind me why I posted in this thread to begin with. You dodged this issue in the other thread, so I came here.

You claim Steve Johnson is clearly a third tier WR around the NFL. He is more like a 3rd or 4th you claim, yet somehow cannot elaborate on how such a third tier player could possibly beat the best cover corner in the game.

Why does this little issue bother me so much? Well, because it proves you have absolutely zero accountability in your posts and run amuck bashing Bills fans for their "acceptance of mediocrity."

Hey, pal. You're a hypocrite. You know why? Because you clearly accept mediocrity in your own posts. You have zero accountability for your accusations. Your claim that Stevie is third tier is a mediocre one at best. If you don't want to be mediocre, man up to your claim, and say you were wrong.

Or if you don't think you're wrong, by all means, stop dodging my question and tell me which other third tier WR in the NFL can make Revis look like an average player.

No, now you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that a 3rd or 4th tier receiver makes that drop. A first tier receiver does not. So, go ahead and argue with your own fake interpretation of what I said all day. I don't care.

[RoscoeMagic]

No, now you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that a 3rd or 4th tier receiver makes that drop. A first tier receiver does not. So, go ahead and argue with your own fake interpretation of what I said all day. I don't care.

No, now you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was that a 3rd or 4th tier receiver makes that drop. A first tier receiver does not. So, go ahead and argue with your own fake interpretation of what I said all day. I don't care.
I see. Now that you're backing into a corner you run from your words. Gee, not the first four times I've asked you how he could be third tier. You stood by it then, and continues to spin away and dodge about how I somehow accept mediocrity because I think Steve Johnson is clearly better than third tier.

Let me remind you for the second time in five posts.



He's 3rd tier league-wide, but 1st tier compared to the other WR's on this team.

I apologize for the "fake interpretation" that I drew from this statement.

[unpaid_bills]

Replace the name "Stevie Johnson" for your favorite Bills player. If 'Stevie Johnson' woud have made this play (or done this or that) Bills could have won. Its a team game we dont have a good enough team - we dont make plays in the clutch.

How many heart-breaking losses as a Bills fan have you personnaly witnessed? I have lost count. Some say its a curse, others say choke. We just need to get guys that can make plays consistently and in the clutch -- obviously easier said than done.

On a side note how about coaching are the coaches stressing and practicing these things in practice - putting our guys in situations? For the love of God i hope so. Scares me when Fitzpatrick said they drew this play up in the dirt? WTF we don't have a money play at the end of the game to get a 20-30 yd TD? I mean come on i coach 10-12 yr old boys and have plays we dont "draw plays up" at the end of the game -- are you kidding me?

Bottom line Stevie should have made the catch but there is plenty of blame to go around. Personally i think its just a curse is all then i dont have to analyze.

[Beebe]

This drop hurts more than the one from last year,and seeing stupid AARON MABYN dance after his two sacks,that catch, that win would of redeem him and the Bills.:dead:

[BillsFever21]

My interpretation of this thread is to combat those other idiotic threads implying we should let Stevie walk. Did he do some stupid things in the game? Definitely. Did he also play very well for 95% of the game against the best CB in football? absolutely. But people are too frikkin stupid to realize, or else they are just pissed off because of the loss and his late drop and dont want to admit that he played well.

There is not many people who flat out doesn't want Johnson on the team. You have to weigh his talents, production and maturity with the type of money he will want to re-sign with us.

Everyone who has questions about re-signing him wants to keep him around but has reservations on what his value is worth. Some of you are willing to make him the 2nd highest paid WR in the NFL behind Fitzgerald to keep him in Buffalo when his talent, maturity and production hasn't warranted that type of contract.

Almost everyone agrees they would be more then willing to re-sign at 7 million a year give or take. Some of you guys are overrating his value and are willing to give him 10+ million a year when he hasn't earned that type of contract yet.

If he is looking for a huge contract then franchise him for next year and see how he plays before committing to a long-term deal worth 10+ million a year. If he matures and makes some improvements after another season then he should have proved himself to earn that type of a contract.

As of right now he hasn't earned 10+ million a year. A team like the Bills that spend on a budget can't afford to overspend foolishly. We already drastically overpaid for Fitzpatrick after having a few good games to start the season.

The facts are his is going on his 2nd above average season where he might finish with around 1,000 yards receiving give or take and maybe 10 TD's again if he finishes strong or has a couple good games.

Is that bad? Of course not but it's also not elite and doesn't warrant being paid as one of the top 5 WR's in the game or higher. Especially in our offense where he rarely faces any double teams because of the spread offense. The elite WR's put up huge numbers while facing double teams. He also hasn't proven to be a clutch player yet either and if anything he has folded under pressure more then he has excelled.

He only ranks in the Top 10 in one category and that is in receptions. The only other category that he ranks in the Top 15 in is TD's and he's tied with other players along with David Nelson. He ranks in the Top 25-30 in yards. As far as his rankings in YAC and YPC it's not even Top 50.

He has a great first move and is very good at getting open in press coverage or on short quick passing plays but he hasn't proved to be able to consistently get open on intermediate/deep routes and he doesn't do much with the ball after he catches it. He doesn't take them short passes he is good at getting open for and break them for longer plays. His YAC is putrid. This is all with mostly single coverage and hasn't proved to be able to beat double teams on a consistent basis yet either.

He is an above average WR with the ability to get better but he isn't an elite WR and should be paid as an elite WR like some of you are willing to pay him. I'd pay him Top 15 money and around 7 million a year on average and that would be more then generous. Boldin who is an established #1 signed a contract last year for 7 million a year on average. That would be more then fair for what Johnson has proven so far.

You also need to have reservations about his maturity and how he will handle himself and perform once he gets paid. There is no need to get extensive on this subject. Everyone should realize that some players still perform or get better after getting paid and others don't like Haynesworth just to name one.. He hasn't proven how he will handle it once he gets a big contract.

Either way it's in our best interests and I think everyone agrees we need to have him on the team next year. We can either use the franchise tag if his contract demands are outrageous and see how another season plays out or sign him to a reasonable contract extension that is worth his current value.