Building Via FA vs Draft

Ed · 12-02-2011, 12:25 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Seymour is 32 years old.
Gains Adams is dead.
Matt Cassel is garbage and Vrabel is retired.
Cowboys way overpaid for Roy Williams and then got rid of him 2 years later.
Jason Taylor is 37 years old and hasn't been a factor on any team in years.
Randy Moss would have given the same effort here that he did in Oakland.

**OpIv37** · 12-02-2011, 12:32 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

When was the last time a player came to Buffalo via a trade? I know we've traded players to get picks in return, but I can't remember the last time we got a player in return.

Our FO has sucked at FA and has sucked at drafting. I really don't think they would have been any better at trading for players.

Ed · 12-02-2011, 12:33 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by OpIv37

When was the last time a player came to Buffalo via a trade? I know we've traded players to get picks in return, but I can't remember the last time we got a player in return.

Our FO has sucked at FA and has sucked at drafting. I really don't think they would have been any better at trading for players.

We traded a 3rd and 5th for Stroud a few years ago.

**SabreEleven** · 12-02-2011, 12:52 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

With 10 years of drafts, don't you think the Bills should have lucked into one pick that contributed to them instead of 10 years of suckiness? It takes real skill to go for 0 for the decade in the draft. Congrats, Ralph. You are great at hiring people who fail.

**psubills62** · 12-02-2011, 01:18 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Why are the Patriots used as an example for building through FA? They won their SB's after building through the draft. They used a bunch of high picks on good DL, their OL are generally draft picks, Tom Brady was drafted, Asante Samuel and Deion Branch were drafted, etc.

They've certainly had some great FA pickups (Moss, Welker), but Adalius Thomas busted, Junior Seau was OK, and last I checked they hadn't won a SB since putting their eggs significantly in the FA basket.

**better days** · 12-02-2011, 01:26 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by Mike

There is an argument out there that its best to build by the draft and fans of this approach site the Steelers as an example. Other teams have more success building via FA like the Patriots. Obviously, any good team will take advantage of both FA & the Draft, so a combination would have been the best.

Now for the Bills, looking at their drafts of the last 10 years or so, you will notice how horrible they are. Just awful. Bust after bust, they just can not seem to get it right. Even when blue chipper falls to them like Orakpo they take Maybin! Ha,,,, that alone should speaks volumes. So its a team like Buffalo, who just can not get it right, better off trading those top picks for players that actually perform. Here is a list of players the Bills could have had, just over the last 4years, instead:

2009: Richard Seymour for 2010 1st rd pick trade
Gains Adams 2010 2nd rd
Jay Cutler 2009 1st&3rd 2010 1st
Matt Cassel & Mike Vrabel 2009 2ndr
Jason Peters 2009 1st rd
2008 Roy Williams 2009 1st, 3rd, 6th 7th (2010)
Jarred Allen 2008 1st & 3rd
Kris Jenkins 2008 3rd & 5th
Jason Taylor 2009 2nd 2010 6th
2007 Randy Moss 2008 4th
Darrell Jackson 2008 4th
Matt Schuab 2007 1st & 2nd 2008 2nd

Bills could have used their picks to land any one of these players or many of them & get an instant return that is nearly guaranteed. Many of these players remained studs, were considered studs, and are studs till this day. Lets see how it worked out for the teams getting the picks.

Here is a list of the corresponding picks chosen as a result of the above trades:
2010 Picks no included:
Denver Jay Cutler Traded
Knowshown Moreno (rookie)
2009
Buffalo Bills (traded Jason Peters)
Eric Wood (rookie)
2009
New England (traded Matt Cassell & Mike Vrabel)
Patrick Chung (rookie)
2008
Detroit Lions (traded Roy Williams)
Brandon Pettigrew (1st Rd - rookie)
Derrick Williams (3rd Rd - rookie)
Aaron Brown (6th Rd - rookie)
2008
Kansas City Chiefs (traded Jared Allen)
Brandon Albert (1st Rd - rookie)
DaJaun Morgan (3rd Rd - rookie)
2008
Miami Dolphins (traded Jason Taylor)
Pat White (rookie)
2008
Carolina Panthers (traded Kris Jenkins)
Charles Godfrey (3rd Rd)
Gary Barnidge (5th Rd)
2007
Oakland Raiders (traded Randy Moss)
John Bowie
2007
Seattle Seahawks (traded Darrell Jackson)
Braka Atkins
2007
Atlanta Falcons (traded Matt Schaub)
Jamaal Anderson (1st Rd)
Justin Blalock (2nd Rd)

When you look at both groups, its clear that the top group of veterans is far better than the bottom group. In fact, most of the bottom group are busts, some average players, and Zero All Pros!

Overall, drafting is very very difficult. I believe only a handful of teams and GMs really know how to draft. I would say the number of GMs that are great at it, can be counted on one hand! Now we know Buffalo does not have one of these 5 top drafting GMs. If anything, were are in the bottom 2-3 in our drafts. Knowing this, the Bills FO should instead focus on trading some of these top picks for all pros like Jarred Allen, Julius Peppers, Gains Adams, Randy Moss, Matt Schuab, etc... instead of drafting another Maybin, or Spiller, or even Wood.

I guess you haven't heard, Buffalo Hired Buddy Nix. The Chargers had some great drafts while he worked for them, since he left, not so much.

**Dozerdog** · 12-02-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Either way works, but you have to be good at one of those 2 ways.

We suck at both. The only thing we are really good at is getting UDFA's - and that's because UDFA's usually flock to rosters that stink and they can get a job.

Ed · 12-02-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

The current Packers are a great example of a team that has been built through the draft.

The best teams build the core of their team through the draft and use free agency to fill in key pieces at weak spots and add veteran depth.

You have to be effective at both drafting and signing free agents to be successful. I don't think you really give yourself an advantage by focusing on one more then the other. It's all about getting the right players. Big free agent signings or trades can be busts just like draft picks.

**better days** · 12-02-2011, 01:30 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by Ed

Seymour is 32 years old.
Gains Adams is dead.
Matt Cassel is garbage and Vrabel is retired.
Cowboys way overpaid for Roy Williams and then got rid of him 2 years later.
Jason Taylor is 37 years old and hasn't been a factor on any team in years.
Randy Moss would have given the same effort here that he did in Oakland.

I might add that Adams was a bust in Tampa & NEVER played a down for the Bears before dying.

Ed · 12-02-2011, 01:32 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by better days

I might add that Adams was a bust in Tampa & NEVER played a down for the Bears before dying.

Yeah, I have no idea why Mike would include him in his original list.

**madness** · 12-02-2011, 01:53 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by better days

I guess you haven't heard, Buffalo Hired Buddy Nix. The Chargers had some great drafts while he worked for them, since he left, not so much.

In fact many blame Smith for driving out Nix, who they credit for choosing the talent, from the organization.

From a recent article:

In terms of talent acquisition, and team-building in general, Smith is in as big a slump as his quarterback, perhaps even bigger.

Comment:

His recent drafts have been pure muck (relatively speaking). Personally I think the loss of Buddy Nix was massive, another guy who lost the battle of AJ Ego.

**Ickybaluky** · 12-02-2011, 01:54 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by Ed

The current Packers are a great example of a team that has been built through the draft.

The best teams build the core of their team through the draft and use free agency to fill in key pieces at weak spots and add veteran depth.

I think the best teams get good players by any means possible, be it the draft, FA, or trades.

For instance, while Green Bay has been primarily been built through the draft, they have a number of key pickups that came via FA or trades (Ryan Pickett, Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Ryan Grant, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Sam Shields, Erik Walden, Frank Zombo).

Similarly, the Pats SB teams had had a number of players acquired via FA or trades (Mike Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, David Patten, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Joe Andruzzi, Christian Fauria).

Every team has hits and misses in the draft, FA or trades, but the best teams get enough good players using any method possible. There is no one way to build the team, good teams use any method available to get good players.

**better days** · 12-02-2011, 02:10 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by Ickybaluky

I think the best teams get good players by any means possible, be it the draft, FA, or trades.

For instance, while Green Bay has been primarily been built through the draft, they have a number of key pickups that came via FA or trades (Ryan Pickett, Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Ryan Grant, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Sam Shields, Erik Walden, Frank Zombo).

Similarly, the Pats SB teams had had a number of players acquired via FA or trades (Mike Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, David Patten, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Joe Andruzzi, Christian Fauria).

Every team has hits and misses in the draft, FA or trades, but the best teams get enough good players using any method possible. There is no one way to build the team, good teams use any method available to get good players.

Yeah, I think you are just repeating what Ed said. I think the Redskins & Eagles however have both proven FA should be signed judiciously. Signing too many players or the wrong player can upset team Chemistry.

I think guys on a team that are looking for a new contract get really pissed off when the team spends a lot on FA & not taking care of their own. That is why I like Nix's plan to pay the CORE players on the Bills rather than sign high priced free agents.

**psubills62** · 12-02-2011, 02:14 PM

Re: Building Via FA vs Draft

Originally posted by Ickybaluky

I think the best teams get good players by any means possible, be it the draft, FA, or trades.

For instance, while Green Bay has been primarily been built through the draft, they have a number of key pickups that came via FA or trades (Ryan Pickett, Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Ryan Grant, Evan Dietrich-Smith, Sam Shields, Erik Walden, Frank Zombo).

Similarly, the Pats SB teams had had a number of players acquired via FA or trades (Mike Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, David Patten, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Joe Andruzzi, Christian Fauria).

Every team has hits and misses in the draft, FA or trades, but the best teams get enough good players using any method possible. There is no one way to build the team, good teams use any method available to get good players.

Most of the guys you listed for GB (Shields, Williams, Walden, Zombo), I would have a hard time characterizing as FA's. For example, Williams was an UDFA that signed with the Texans, was cut at roster reductions and ended up with GB afterwards. Technically, yeah, that's FA, but not what people normally think of when they think of "building through FA."