The injury excuse

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

First let me say Im NOT discounting the impact of injuries....

But Last year the Packers were decimated with injuries and won the supberbowl with a fair number of 3rd stringers.

I am a bit grudging in my acceptance of the injury excuse for the collapse

I think it is more then that... but i dont know what other then our defense is soooo bad it is just mind boggeling

[Don't Panic]

Fair point. Even without our injuries we probably wouldn't be much better than 7-5 at this stage of the season. KWilliams was the only impact injury. Who knows the difference that made on the D this year.

AS for the GB comparison... they are a well-built and deep team. They have evolved to that point through years of good management. I still reserve judgement on Nix at this point. He needs another offseason to plug the remaining holes, but we need to be in the thick of the playoff hunt this time next year if we're going to consider what he's done to be successful.

[Philagape]

Wood and Wilson have been impact injuries too.

And how much better would the passing game have been with Parrish and Easley?

[Goobylal]

Good point about the Packers. I say the Bills should draft QB's in only the 6th round and start them, expecting them to be the next Tom Brady.

Sorry but when you lose your best DL, pass rusher, LT, C, and SS, a starting WR, starting lost WR, and kicker for long stretches, you're not going to win many games. And who did the Packers lose that anyone had ever heard about before the Bills signed Nick Barnett?

[Meathead]

packers also have one of the three best qbs in the league. probably 26 of the rest of the teams have no choice but to perennially do with less. an elite qb hides a ton but if you aint got one you aint got one and you probably wont for a long time

[Figster]

Fair point. Even without our injuries we probably wouldn't be much better than 7-5 at this stage of the season. KWilliams was the only impact injury. Who knows the difference that made on the D this year.

AS for the GB comparison... they are a well-built and deep team. They have evolved to that point through years of good management. I still reserve judgement on Nix at this point. He needs another offseason to plug the remaining holes, but we need to be in the thick of the playoff hunt this time next year if we're going to consider what he's done to be successful.

Well posted,

GB is well built with good depth that has evolved through years of good management.

[Philagape]

Go to the Colts board and say injuries are no excuse!

[ServoBillieves]

Wait, so losing the offensive focal point was nothing? You have 2 injured Left Tackles, who you fill the void with your starting left guard, who is then filled by a backup, THEN you try to find a player for your center, Wood, who is done for the year. You lose Merriman, you lose your best D-Lineman in Kyle Williams, you don't have Parrish or Easley, so we need a new WR? Oh wait, I'm sorry, we also lost Donald Jones!

The Bills, in a short offseason, and even before the coaches were allowed to talk to the players, had their plans set around these players. Anyone who doesn't get that aspect is a serious moron. Like, not even worth talking to moron. These things need to be taken care of ASAP with getting a new strength and conditioning coach, along with getting these players ready for the NFL.

Wow, it's really nice that these teams (other than the Colts) are doing great with their experienced players, but DUE TO INJURIES, we are starting a rookie LT, we're starting a rookie NT (moved from his LE position), a rookie ILB, a rookie CB (who is now injured), and a rookie S...

No, can't blame it on the injuries at all. Honestly, tell me we can't blame it on injuries, and I will laugh at you hysterically. This team was built around an initial 53 players, and they've had to fill cogs and pick up slack like no other team in this league.

But again, it's not the injuries.

[Mike]

Sorry but when you lose your best DL, pass rusher, LT, C, and SS, a starting WR, starting lost WR, and kicker for long stretches, you're not going to win many games. And who did the Packers lose that anyone had ever heard about before the Bills signed Nick Barnett?


Taxans have WON 6 Straight! The have lost their Pro Bowl QB & his back up, All Pro DE, All Pro WR, All Pro RB and still find a way to win.

Packers won SB last year with 3rd stringers!!!

Patriots managed to go 11-5 after Brady was injured!

GOOD Teams Find a Way to Win!

Part of being a well build team is having depth!

All Teams Suffer Injuries, the Good Ones Find a way to win despite them!

[Mike]

Sorry but when you lose your best DL, pass rusher, LT, C, and SS, a starting WR, starting lost WR, and kicker for long stretches, you're not going to win many games. And who did the Packers lose that anyone had ever heard about before the Bills signed Nick Barnett?


Packers 2010 had 15 Players on IR
RB Ryan Grant ankle/IR 14
SS Morgan Burnett (R) knee/IR 12
ILB Nick Barnett wrist/IR 11
T Mark Tauscher shoulder/IR 11
TE Jermichael Finley knee/IR 10
OLB Brad Jones shoulder/IR

Key Reserves on IR
CB Josh Bell
foot/IR 16
G/T Marshall Newhouse (R) ba
DE Justin Harrell knee/IR 14
DE Mike Neal (R) shoulder/IR 13
FS Derrick Martin knee/IR 10
OLB Brady Poppinga knee/IR 9
LILB Brandon Chillar shoulder/IR 7
FS Anthony Smith ankle/IR 5
TE Spencer Havner hamstring/IR 4

That Does NOT include players that missed games because of injury, Like ROGERS, who were not IRed.

Way worst than anything the Bills have lost. They lost their whole LBers, 2 Safties, 2 TE, 2DEs, 2tackles etc.... 2010 was Crazy number of injuries for Pack!

How many players do the Bills have on IR? Nowhere near 15 & there is no chance were winning the SB

[ZEUS]

Green Bay didn't become what they are in one season. Jouron left this team a mess. Gailey and Nix said lack of experienced depth was a big concern for them going into the season. We got excited with a strong start to the season and were thinking playoffs prematurely. I am expecting this team to have a post season next year. No excuses.

[Jeff1220]

Taxans have WON 6 Straight! The have lost their Pro Bowl QB & his back up, All Pro DE, All Pro WR, All Pro RB and still find a way to win.

Packers won SB last year with 3rd stringers!!!

Patriots managed to go 11-5 after Brady was injured!

GOOD Teams Find a Way to Win!

Part of being a well build team is having depth!

All Teams Suffer Injuries, the Good Ones Find a way to win despite them!

Yeah, but as optimistic things looked early on, did anyone actually think that the Bills were one of those teams? Even when they started fast out of the gate, they always seemed a key injury or two away from being a bottom feeder again. That sort of depth doesn't usually build itself in a year or two. Next season is baby time.

[Jan Reimers]

We simply have too little talent, and far too little depth, to withstand injuries to key players like K. Williams and Freddie.

So it's a good excuse, but only because our FO has not put us in position to withstand injuries.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Taxans have WON 6 Straight! The have lost their Pro Bowl QB & his back up, All Pro DE, All Pro WR, All Pro RB and still find a way to win.
They're also in one of the weakest divisions in football. Remember that. Let's see the Texans do what they do in the AFC East.

Packers won SB last year with 3rd stringers!!!
Lions, Bears, Vikings. See above.

Patriots managed to go 11-5 after Brady was injured!
And still missed the playoffs.

GOOD Teams Find a Way to Win!

Part of being a well build team is having depth!

All Teams Suffer Injuries, the Good Ones Find a way to win despite them!

[jamze132]

We have had a lot of injuries, but it's not like our guys that got injured are all-stars, with the exception of KW.

[zone]

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Packers have had a sound organization and coaching in place for years. We have several rookies gaining valuable experience so in the future if they are not starters they will be solid depth.

The O line injuries were the biggest factor in what derailed the train.

[justasportsfan]

we have starters who should be back-ups. Our back ups right now are players who couldn't beat a bunch of nobodies to begin with.

[Extremebillsfan247]

First let me say Im NOT discounting the impact of injuries....

But Last year the Packers were decimated with injuries and won the supberbowl with a fair number of 3rd stringers.

I am a bit grudging in my acceptance of the injury excuse for the collapse

I think it is more then that... but i dont know what other then our defense is soooo bad it is just mind boggeling A good portion of those 3rd stringers would probably be 1st stringers on this team. That is the problem here. JMO

[Mike]

Yeah, but as optimistic things looked early on, did anyone actually think that the Bills were one of those teams? Even when they started fast out of the gate, they always seemed a key injury or two away from being a bottom feeder again. That sort of depth doesn't usually build itself in a year or two. Next season is baby time.


What you saw early in the year was a mirage. they faced a best case scenario:
WK 1: Played an injury riddled KC team that would have had a hard time beating LSU in week1
WK 2: Were down 18pts to the Raiders who are notoriously bad at east coast games. It took a perfect 2nd half and a few lucky brakes (like dropped int in end zone) to complete the comeback.
WK 3: Down 21 to Pats! They took gas off petal and it takes 4 Ints to pull of upset by 3pts. If you still think the Bills are better, go look at both teams records.
WK 4: Cinci shows world how easy it really is to beat Bills
WK5: Eagles...go look at their record. they just lost to the cards! it took 5 turnovers to win by 3pts
and the rest is history....

as far as depth, it can be built in 2 years. What should ALARM you even more is that we have so many injuries and have done nothing about it. They let one of the best Strength and Conditioning Coaches go a number of years back to the Bears and here we are a few years later!

High number of injuries year after year is indicative of poor conditioning which is indicative of a poor coaching staff/gm.

[Mike]

Taxans have WON 6 Straight! The have lost their Pro Bowl QB & his back up, All Pro DE, All Pro WR, All Pro RB and still find a way to win.
They're also in one of the weakest divisions in football. Remember that. Let's see the Texans do what they do in the AFC East.
What a crop of **** for an excuse. We just got pummeled by a team, Titans, that the Texans DESTROYED a few weeks back -with far more severe injuries than us. Texans are 9-3 as are the Pats 9-3; Jets are 7-5 and the Titans are 7-5. That division is on par with ours.

Packers won SB last year with 3rd stringers!!!
Lions, Bears, Vikings. See above.
Bears went to Championship Game! Not an Easy Team. Vikings were decent, not awful. Lions were talented but had an injured QB. ALL of those Teams were much better than the Bills Last Year!!! This Year, Bears, Lions, and Pack are still better than Bills...

Patriots managed to go 11-5 after Brady was injured!
And still missed the playoffs.
They still went 11-5 with a back up QB! Whens the last time the Bills went 11-5 with a starter??? Its been more than a decade. It goes to show that good teams find a way to win!

GOOD Teams Find a Way to Win!

Part of being a well build team is having depth!

All Teams Suffer Injuries, the Good Ones Find a way to win despite them!

[Goobylal]

Taxans have WON 6 Straight! The have lost their Pro Bowl QB & his back up, All Pro DE, All Pro WR, All Pro RB and still find a way to win.

Packers won SB last year with 3rd stringers!!!

Patriots managed to go 11-5 after Brady was injured!

GOOD Teams Find a Way to Win!

Part of being a well build team is having depth!

All Teams Suffer Injuries, the Good Ones Find a way to win despite them!
The Texans are in a weak division and have a weak schedule. They have 3 tough games and one creampuff (Indy) left, and could very well miss the playoffs.

As for the Patriots, they lost Brady and replaced him with a guy who had been with them for 4 years and won (system), but missed the playoffs.

And as for the Packers and their 15 IR'd players, outside of Barnett and Finley, the rest are a collection of nobodies. That team is all Rodgers and basically anyone else on offense is replaceable while their DL has been wholly intact, as has been their secondary, WRT the best players.

[Philagape]

We have had a lot of injuries, but it's not like our guys that got injured are all-stars, with the exception of KW.

Wood, Wilson and of course Jackson were having Pro Bowl seasons (not that I endorse the PB in any way, but you said "all-stars")

[jcdavey]

First let me say Im NOT discounting the impact of injuries....

But Last year the Packers were decimated with injuries and won the supberbowl with a fair number of 3rd stringers.

I am a bit grudging in my acceptance of the injury excuse for the collapse

I think it is more then that... but i dont know what other then our defense is soooo bad it is just mind boggeling
some teams can get over their injuries, some can't

my chargers are ones that cannot

plus they play in a cursed city that produces alot of mentally weak players

[jamze132]

Wood, Wilson and of course Jackson were having Pro Bowl seasons (not that I endorse the PB in any way, but you said "all-stars")
Same thing.

[stuckincincy]

The current IR/PUP list:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/pup

[Extremebillsfan247]

The current IR/PUP list:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/pupAccording to that list, only Jacksonville has more players on IR than the Bills do. Jacksonville's record is 3-9. If this is accurate, than anyone using the Bills injuries as an excuse for why they are losing would have a legitimate argument. JMO

[stuckincincy]

According to that list, only Jacksonville has more players on IR than the Bills do. Jacksonville's record is 3-9. If this is accurate, than anyone using the Bills injuries as an excuse for why they are losing would have a legitimate argument. JMO

I think so.

You lose players, starters, it hurts. Fellow podunk team for years - CIN, lost much of their defensive backfield same as BUF, in this pass-biased league, and are in a 1 and 3 slide...and BUF has the added problem of having it's OL ripped to shreds, and now losing Fred's services. Raynor's an ok kicker, and I'm glad he was available for the call - but he's not Lindell. Lost KW - I can't say he's an ideal NT - but a starter somewhere on the DL, who makes a difference? - you bet. Big loss.

I know what depth means, and it's nice to see a club nourish that. But there's a fair gulf between your starters and that depth, although one comes of the bench and excels time to time - and players know it. Those good depth players know that they can get starting/better $ elsewhere, so they move on to greener pastures when the rules allow them to do so.

I've always felt that if the impossible happened - a dumpy team that went all season without losing a starter - well, they'd likely be playoff-bound.

JMO.

:calm:

[BillsFever21]

Wood and Wilson have been impact injuries too.

And how much better would the passing game have been with Parrish and Easley?
We were in collapse mode long before the Wood, Wilson and even Jackson injuries.

As far as Parrish and Easley goes they are irrelevant. Parrish hasn't played a game since the middle of last season and Easley has never played a regular season game.

To say that they would have made a huge difference is homeristic. Parrish has always been injury prone and has never been anymore then a luxury player and average slot WR. Easley has never even played a game so how can you even count or expect any of his production in the equation is baseless.

Outside of all that our passing game was good the first month or so before it went downhill. We didn't lose Johnson, Nelson or Chandler. The league caught up with our short passing game and Fitzpatrick came down to earth to play at his normal level and Gailey wasn't creative enough to adjust to the other teams catching up with our offense. We are a one trick pony in the passing game.

Our impact injuries outside of Williams didn't happen until after we collapsed anyway. We were losing and getting blow out with them.

Any realistic fan not riding the high of a lucky start could see that this team had flaws and couldn't sustain the victories they were having. Three of them were very lucky wins and two of them were the type of wins that might happen once a season. The other two wins were against teams that couldn't beat anybody at that time. I knew and stated many times after we were 3-0 and 5-2 that there wasn't any chance that we would keep up that pace and them type of victories and would come back down to earth. I just thought we had improved slightly enough since last year that it wouldn't get this bad. I thought we would finish the season 8-8 after the 5-2 start but it's even worse then that.

We are just bad team that is slightly improved from last year at best. If anything our defense is even worse so that's hard to say for sure. Some lucky wins, good bounces and extraordinary play in the redzone and creating turnovers that logically we couldn't sustain got us off to a good start. After everything leveled itself off and the wheels came falling off everyone wants to blame in on any game missed by any player. Even if they were injured while we were winning and returned when we started the downslide.

[Philagape]

"What difference would they have made if they weren't injured?"

"None!"

"Why?"

"Because they're injured!"

:huh:

[Extremebillsfan247]

We have had a lot of injuries, but it's not like our guys that got injured are all-stars, with the exception of KW.You are right. They are not all-stars. However, 8 of the 19 Bills players currently on IR were opening day starters. Whats taking their place on the field is considerably worse than they are when healthy. It's not the only reason the Bills have lost 5 straight, but it definitely has played a big part in it. Why anyone would deny that is just foolish in my opinion.
Note: Edited for accuracy. Lindell was recently added to the IR list as of 12/08/2011.

[better days]

We were in collapse mode long before the Wood, Wilson and even Jackson injuries.

As far as Parrish and Easley goes they are irrelevant. Parrish hasn't played a game since the middle of last season and Easley has never played a regular season game.

To say that they would have made a huge difference is homeristic. Parrish has always been injury prone and has never been anymore then a luxury player and average slot WR. Easley has never even played a game so how can you even count or expect any of his production in the equation is baseless.

Outside of all that our passing game was good the first month or so before it went downhill. We didn't lose Johnson, Nelson or Chandler. The league caught up with our short passing game and Fitzpatrick came down to earth to play at his normal level and Gailey wasn't creative enough to adjust to the other teams catching up with our offense. We are a one trick pony in the passing game.

Our impact injuries outside of Williams didn't happen until after we collapsed anyway. We were losing and getting blow out with them.

Any realistic fan not riding the high of a lucky start could see that this team had flaws and couldn't sustain the victories they were having. Three of them were very lucky wins and two of them were the type of wins that might happen once a season. The other two wins were against teams that couldn't beat anybody at that time. I knew and stated many times after we were 3-0 and 5-2 that there wasn't any chance that we would keep up that pace and them type of victories and would come back down to earth. I just thought we had improved slightly enough since last year that it wouldn't get this bad. I thought we would finish the season 8-8 after the 5-2 start but it's even worse then that.

We are just bad team that is slightly improved from last year at best. If anything our defense is even worse so that's hard to say for sure. Some lucky wins, good bounces and extraordinary play in the redzone and creating turnovers that logically we couldn't sustain got us off to a good start. After everything leveled itself off and the wheels came falling off everyone wants to blame in on any game missed by any player. Even if they were injured while we were winning and returned when we started the downslide.

OK tell us when did the collapse begin?

[Goobylal]

According to that list, only Jacksonville has more players on IR than the Bills do. Jacksonville's record is 3-9. If this is accurate, than anyone using the Bills injuries as an excuse for why they are losing would have a legitimate argument. JMO
The only thing people are pointing to is the Packers winning it all last year despite 35 mostly scrubs being on IR.

[Goobylal]

We were in collapse mode long before the Wood, Wilson and even Jackson injuries.

As far as Parrish and Easley goes they are irrelevant. Parrish hasn't played a game since the middle of last season and Easley has never played a regular season game.

To say that they would have made a huge difference is homeristic. Parrish has always been injury prone and has never been anymore then a luxury player and average slot WR. Easley has never even played a game so how can you even count or expect any of his production in the equation is baseless.

Outside of all that our passing game was good the first month or so before it went downhill. We didn't lose Johnson, Nelson or Chandler. The league caught up with our short passing game and Fitzpatrick came down to earth to play at his normal level and Gailey wasn't creative enough to adjust to the other teams catching up with our offense. We are a one trick pony in the passing game.

Our impact injuries outside of Williams didn't happen until after we collapsed anyway. We were losing and getting blow out with them.

Any realistic fan not riding the high of a lucky start could see that this team had flaws and couldn't sustain the victories they were having. Three of them were very lucky wins and two of them were the type of wins that might happen once a season. The other two wins were against teams that couldn't beat anybody at that time. I knew and stated many times after we were 3-0 and 5-2 that there wasn't any chance that we would keep up that pace and them type of victories and would come back down to earth. I just thought we had improved slightly enough since last year that it wouldn't get this bad. I thought we would finish the season 8-8 after the 5-2 start but it's even worse then that.

We are just bad team that is slightly improved from last year at best. If anything our defense is even worse so that's hard to say for sure. Some lucky wins, good bounces and extraordinary play in the redzone and creating turnovers that logically we couldn't sustain got us off to a good start. After everything leveled itself off and the wheels came falling off everyone wants to blame in on any game missed by any player. Even if they were injured while we were winning and returned when we started the downslide.
The collapse started with the first Jets game. Take a look at the players that were missing. And it only got worse.

[John Doe]

It is no wonder why the Dolphins got a lot better during this season.

Their backup QB needed some reps that he did not get in training camp and now he is probably better than Henne.

Only one other player suffered a season-ending injury.

[Mike]

As for the Patriots, they lost Brady and replaced him with a guy who had been with them for 4 years and won (system), but missed the playoffs.

Basically what your saying is that the reason the Pats overcame such a devastating injury & went 11-5 was because they are good.

[Mike]

The Texans are in a weak division and have a weak schedule. They have 3 tough games and one creampuff (Indy) left, and could very well miss the playoffs.]

Their division & schedule is on par with ours

[Mike]

And as for the Packers and their 15 IR'd players, outside of Barnett and Finley, the rest are a collection of nobodies. That team is all Rodgers and basically anyone else on offense is replaceable while their DL has been wholly intact, as has been their secondary, WRT the best players.

First off those players would be starters for us. Second look @ their injury list. They basically won SB without their starting LBers, Safties, lineman, etc...

What your forgetting is that they WON the effin SB!!! They played other Great Teams to get that SB. Teams that had very few injuries. They were not out there beating up bad teams like the Bills! No they beat real teams. To put it perspective, the Bills could not win 1SB with healthy teams. In 3/4 SB the best Bills teams of all time were dominated. Their closest game, they played & lost to a team with a backup QB! Think about it. The Pacs ackomplshed something special last year, something the very best Bills teams could not do even when healthy.

[BillsFever21]

The collapse started with the first Jets game. Take a look at the players that were missing. And it only got worse.

Wood, Jackson and Wilson were all playing then. They have missed the past couple games. We were totally blown out for three straight games prior to that.

Williams was still injured before the collapse and he was the only main player. That is unless you think a collection of backups and marginal starters who were missing like Williams, Bell, Harriston, Kelsay and Merriman would've made up about 80+ point difference in them 3 games. Kelsay, Harriston and Williams were all back a few weeks ago. A lot of difference that has made.

Our major injuries happened over the past couple games when Wood, Jackson and Wilson were missing from the lineup. We played the Jets tough but blew that game. The Titans beat is fairly easy. The final score was close due to a late prevent defense style TD but they had the lead all game and a two score lead for most of it.

Our collapse started with the Jets game but we were only playing average after the first few weeks leading up to that game. Most could see we wouldn't keep that pace up. We were 2-2 over that span after a couple lucky miracle wins. Both wins were against losing teams at home and one of them was against the Redskins who couldn't beat anybody and then we were lucky to hold onto a 21 point lead at home against the Eagles even after 5 turnovers.

For those discounting the Texans injuries who have lost major impact players like Mario Williams, Andre Johnson and their starting RB injured for a lot of the season a long with other players and they are still 9-3 but blaming our collapse on injuries even before we lost two of our biggest players in Jackson and Wood is being a homer and using excuses. In fact I think every year many or the same people blame our losing season on injuries.

As far as the Texans "easy" schedule being the reason they have overcame their impact injuries they have still seemed to beat teams like the Titans(who we lost to), the Steelers, Dolphins(bad team but we got blown out against them), and even last week with a rookie 3rd string QB in the lineup they beat the Falcons.

We have beat only two winning football teams all season and they were lucky comeback wins. Two of are other wins were against teams in KC and the Redskins who were getting blown away by everyone at the time and then barely holding onto the Eagles game.

But go ahead and blame our collapse and them huge losses of Williams, Harriston, Kelsay for a few game, etc. That was even before we lost any major players. We're just a bad team. Losers blame them on injuries.

[better days]

Their division & schedule is on par with ours

Ridiculous. The Texans & Titans are nowhere near as good as the Pats* & Jets & the Jags & Colts are nowhere near as good as the Bills & Fins.