if the bills had tebow

[Billsfan3]

Would he make an impact on our team at all? or do you think he would not make a difference? i think he has a heart of a champion and he knows how to keep fighting till the games over and never gives up and i think he could make an impact on this bills team.

[Billsfan3]

but being said our defense sucks so i dont think we would be in the playoffs or anything

[G Wolly]

If the Bills had Tebow he would suffer slowly until his contract was up and would thrive elsewhere.

The story of Buffalo football.

[YardRat]

If we had Denver's defensive staff we would be leading our division.

[tampabay25690]

IF IF IF

[Night Train]

IF IF IF

Yup..

" If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.."

[Philagape]

Denver is nowhere and Tebow is irrelevant without their defense.

When you're winning games by scores of 18-15, 17-10, 17-13, 16-13, 13-10, which side of the ball is doing better?

[Forward_Lateral]

God would not allow his son to play for the Bills. He hates Buffalo, remember?

[better days]

Denver is nowhere and Tebow is irrelevant without their defense.

When you're winning games by scores of 18-15, 17-10, 17-13, 16-13, 13-10, which side of the ball is doing better?

Team game. The offense has scored more points than the defense has allowed for Denver. That is the recipe for winning. The Broncos had the same defense when Orton was QB & the record was 1-4.

Part of the reason the defense has played so well since Tebow became the starter is he does not turn the ball over like Orton did.

Also the Denver offense stays on the field MUCH longer than it did with Orton at QB which means the other team has less chance to score & the Broncos defense is rested when they go in the game.

[Forward_Lateral]

Honestly, I'd rather have Denver's Defense.

[Philagape]

Tebow doesn't turn it over because nobody on either team can catch his passes.

[trapezeus]

well, seeing that the Bills would be trying to convert him to OLB, i'm thinking he'd be struggling a little bit and not nearly "a winner" as much as he is right now.

[OpIv37]

It would make no difference whatsoever.

The guy's only managed more than 18 points one time in 7 games. With the way our D plays, that's not nearly enough.

[Philagape]

Denver's D also was missing Dumervil and Bailey for several games early in the year.

[better days]

Tebow doesn't turn it over because nobody on either team can catch his passes.

Well, the Broncos have caught 11 of his passes for TDs with only 2 INTs. In only 8 games so far. Not to mention his 3 rushing TDs.

I would take Tebow over Fitz all day long.

[better days]

Denver's D also was missing Dumervil and Bailey for several games early in the year.

Well Denver traded the only decent receiver they had when Tebow was made the starter.

I hear excuses about poor receivers on many teams including the Bills. You NEVER hear about the lack of quality receivers when Denver & Tebow are discussed.

Tebow is getting it done in Denver with two young guys that would probably be the #3 receiver at best on most teams.

[Philagape]

I'd take Tebow over Fitz for one drive per game.

[Bill Cody]

If Tebow came to Buffalo Fitz would probably convince him to grow a beard and he'd never win another game

[Bill Cody]

I'd take Tebow over Fitz for one drive per game.

One 60 minute drive, yeah.

[Figster]

The life and times of Tim Tebow is a powerful, spiritual story unfolding. I like many have become a huge fan of the man, and of course (as always) what he represents.

On the other hand and as been previously posted, without the Denver Defense who have bought into "there is something bigger then all of us going on here" lock, stock, and barrel, Tim Tebow is probably standing on the sidelines watching.

[Bill Cody]

Well, the Broncos have caught 11 of his passes for TDs with only 2 INTs. In only 8 games so far. Not to mention his 3 rushing TDs.

I would take Tebow over Fitz all day long.

You have a good point on this. Young QB's almost always turn it over a lot. Tebow isn't. That's a big part of his success. Fitz has settled back into his turnover machine past. It's a big deal in terms of wins and losses in the NFL.

And you cannot overestimate the impact these close wins has on the rest of the Denver squad. They are going to play for 60 minutes, another big deal in the NFL. It's easy to point to flaws in Tebow's game, some of them are glaring. But he is winning games. It ain't all him by a long shot but he's helping. Fitz? The Bills have quit on him.

[Philagape]

One 60 minute drive, yeah.

In Denver, he's only needed one drive after doing nothing for 58 minutes.

[OpIv37]

In Denver, he's only needed one drive after doing nothing for 58 minutes.

Tebow managed 13 points this past week.

I don't know why people are getting so excited about his game-winning drives but not acknowledging the fact that the game-winning drives are only necessary because he didn't do jack **** for the first 55+ minutes of the game.

I wish I could get on the Tebow plan at work. I'm not going to do jack **** from 9 am Monday until 12 noon on Friday. Then, from noon until 4 pm on Friday, I'm going to work really hard and do a great job. And after that, I'll spend the next 2 days sitting back listening to everyone talk about how great I am.

Makes perfect sense, right?

[better days]

In Denver, he's only needed one drive after doing nothing for 58 minutes.

Tebow did something in those 58 minutes. He kept the other team off the field which means they couldn't score for much of that 58 minutes. The Broncos rarely go 3 & out.

[Bill Cody]

In Denver, he's only needed one drive after doing nothing for 58 minutes.

Look at the Minnesota game. Denver had like 6 points at the half but won 35-32. I'll be very curious how Denver does against a great offensive team like NE. It will be tough to keep the Patriots under 30 points. So if Tebow only puts up 17 they'll get blown out. But will he?

[Bill Cody]

I wish I could get on the Tebow plan at work. I'm not going to do jack **** from 9 am Monday until 12 noon on Friday.

Based on your post count I'd say it's more like 9-5.

[Historian]

he's be another useless qb behind a swiss cheese O line.

He's be in Saskachiewan by 2013.

[Figster]

Something that perhaps goes unnoticed is that Denver is ranked number 1 in rushing yards per game in the NFL.

Willis McGahee has been very productive averaging 4.6 yards a carry for 920 yards so far this season. Tebow, 5.5 yards a carry for 517 yards.

[User Manuel]

if the Bills had Tebow?

A lot of people would have serious doubts about religion around here.....

[TigerJ]

I love Tebow's infectious confidence, but I don't covet him as a QB for the Bills at all. Denver is winning for three reasons IMO. 1. They have a solid defense. 2. Tim Tebow is a novelty, running the Denver offense in a way that opponents have not yet been able to adjust to, at least in the final few minutes when he engineers the expected comeback, and 3. Tebow does have a positive effect on his teammates on both sides of the LOS. Reason # 1 has nothing to do with Tebow. Reason #2 won't last forever. Oposing DCs will figure him out and start rendering that last minute comeback ineffective. I don't think #3 is enough to compensate for the detrimental effect Tebow has on the overal passing game.

It's possible that over time Tebow will become a better passer, though I'm not really expectng a significant change. That could change the whole equation, but for right now, while Tebow would have some kind of impact on the Bills, I don't know how to quantify it, and I don't expect it would be long term.

[Figster]

if the Bills had Tebow?

A lot of people would have serious doubts about religion around here.....


On the other hand, Tebow might break the curse,

Even the Football Gods have someone to answer to...

The Man :spanku: Football Gods

[Skooby]

Yup..

" If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.."

LOL, classic.

[better days]

Tebow managed 13 points this past week.

I don't know why people are getting so excited about his game-winning drives but not acknowledging the fact that the game-winning drives are only necessary because he didn't do jack **** for the first 55+ minutes of the game.

I wish I could get on the Tebow plan at work. I'm not going to do jack **** from 9 am Monday until 12 noon on Friday. Then, from noon until 4 pm on Friday, I'm going to work really hard and do a great job. And after that, I'll spend the next 2 days sitting back listening to everyone talk about how great I am.

Makes perfect sense, right?

In the 4th Qtr Tebow has outplayed most of the QBs in the NFL. I would rather have a QB that gets it done at crunch time to WIN the game than a QB like Romo that looks good most of the game but can't CLOSE.

Kind of like a guy on the phone all day long that doesn't close the deal with ANYONE & another guy that makes one or two calls & closes them both for big deals. The 1st guy may look like he is the better worker, but the reality is the 2nd guy gets the results while the 1st guy just spins his wheels.

[Historian]

Ralph would never pay for Tebow.

He might spring for a faith healer though....

[Philagape]

Tebow did something in those 58 minutes. He kept the other team off the field which means they couldn't score for much of that 58 minutes. The Broncos rarely go 3 & out.

Oh man are you about to get destroyed :rofl:

Here are the pertinent facts from the Broncos' seven wins with Tebow:
Offense third-down conversions
MIA 4-16 (four 3-and-outs)
OAK 3-12 (two 3-and-outs)
KC 5-14 (three 3-and-outs)
NYJ 3-13 (five 3-and-outs)
SD 5-16 (four 3-and-outs)
MIN 3-11 (four 3-and-outs)
CHI 2-15 (seven 3-and-outs!)
TOTAL 25-97, 25.8 percent
Over a full season, that would be worst in the NFL.

Defense third-down conversions allowed
MIA 3-14
OAK 4-12
KC 2-11
NYJ 3-14
SD 6-17
MIN 6-15
CHI 5-17
TOTAL 29-100, 29 percent
Over a full season, that would be second-best in the NFL

The Broncos have punted the second-most times in the league. (During the above wins, they've punted an average of 7.4 times per game.)
The Broncos' defense is tied for the third-most punts forced.

Denver's offense is 26th in the NFL in yards per drive.
Denver's defense is 10th-best in the NFL in yards per drive.
source (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats)

The reason for their TOP advantage is that the defense keeps giving the ball back to the offense.
In addition to points, where the defense also has been superior, Denver's defense is WAY outperforming its offense, regardless of turnovers.

The defense is indisputably the primary reason for Denver's winning. Slam-dunk proven.

[tampabay25690]

Well, the Broncos have caught 11 of his passes for TDs with only 2 INTs. In only 8 games so far. Not to mention his 3 rushing TDs.

I would take Tebow over Fitz all day long.

I would too but we dont have him...

Id take Aaron Rodgers as well but he isnt available....

[OpIv37]

In the 4th Qtr Tebow has outplayed most of the QBs in the NFL. I would rather have a QB that gets it done at crunch time to WIN the game than a QB like Romo that looks good most of the game but can't CLOSE.

Kind of like a guy on the phone all day long that doesn't close the deal with ANYONE & another guy that makes one or two calls & closes them both for big deals. The 1st guy may look like he is the better worker, but the reality is the 2nd guy gets the results while the 1st guy just spins his wheels.

I'd rather have neither. I'd rather have a QB who is consistent throughout the game and comes through at crunch time more often than not.

[Forward_Lateral]

Everyone gives Tebow credit for Denver's win vs the Bears. Nobody is acknowledging the kicker that kicked a ridiculous 59 yarder to tie it and then a 52 yarder to win it.
Nobody is talking about how Marion Barber basically handed the game to Denver either.

[sqad5]

Yup..

" If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.."
hahahahahahahahaha epic

[better days]

Oh man are you about to get destroyed :rofl:

Here are the pertinent facts from the Broncos' seven wins with Tebow:
Offense third-down conversions
MIA 4-16 (four 3-and-outs)
OAK 3-12 (two 3-and-outs)
KC 5-14 (three 3-and-outs)
NYJ 3-13 (five 3-and-outs)
SD 5-16 (four 3-and-outs)
MIN 3-11 (four 3-and-outs)
CHI 2-15 (seven 3-and-outs!)
TOTAL 25-97, 25.8 percent
Over a full season, that would be worst in the NFL.

Defense third-down conversions allowed
MIA 3-14
OAK 4-12
KC 2-11
NYJ 3-14
SD 6-17
MIN 6-15
CHI 5-17
TOTAL 29-100, 29 percent
Over a full season, that would be second-best in the NFL

The Broncos have punted the second-most times in the league. (During the above wins, they've punted an average of 7.4 times per game.)
The Broncos' defense is tied for the third-most punts forced.

Denver's offense is 26th in the NFL in yards per drive.
Denver's defense is 10th-best in the NFL in yards per drive.
source (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats)

The reason for their TOP advantage is that the defense keeps giving the ball back to the offense.
In addition to points, where the defense also has been superior, Denver's defense is WAY outperforming its offense, regardless of turnovers.

The defense is indisputably the primary reason for Denver's winning. Slam-dunk proven.

Well, I could not find those numbers on your source. What I did see was Denvers Defense was ranked 18 while the Offense was ranked 19. That would imply the defense for Denver is playing at about the same level as the offense. So you are WRONG that the defense is way outperforming the Offense.

If those numbers are correct, Denver went 3 & out 4 times or less in all the games you listed except 2. Against the Jets they did it 5 times & against the Bears 7 times.

Tell us what is the league average for three & outs. I know even Brady & the Pats* have one or two every game.

Against the Bears, the receivers dropped the ball many times before the last 5 minutes. The Broncos should have been ahead 10-0 at the half.

The NFL Network will broadcast the replay of the game with Tebow miked up tonight @ 8 PM. for anyone interested in watching it.

[better days]

I'd rather have neither. I'd rather have a QB who is consistent throughout the game and comes through at crunch time more often than not.

Well those are FEW & far between. I would be HAPPY with a QB that WINS 7 times out of 8 myself.

[better days]

I would too but we dont have him...

Id take Aaron Rodgers as well but he isnt available....

Yeah, I'd take Rodgers as well myself. I think he is the best QB in the NFL right now.

My point is that Tebow is playing better than Fitz now & Tebow keeps improving while Fitz is regressing.

[Philagape]

I couldn't find it for this season, but here are 3-and-out stats for 2010. Add them up, and there were a total of 1,371 3-and-outs last year.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2011/fo-mailbag-three-and-outs-forced

That's an average of 2.7 per team per game.

So by that standard, Denver's 3-and-outs have been below average in six of their seven wins with Tebow.

Tebow is not good at staying on the field. Proven.

[better days]

I couldn't find it for this season, but here are 3-and-out stats for 2010. Add them up, and there were a total of 1,371 3-and-outs last year.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2011/fo-mailbag-three-and-outs-forced

That's an average of 2.7 per team per game.

So by that standard, Denver's 3-and-outs have been below average in six of their seven wins with Tebow.

Tebow is not good at staying on the field. Proven.

Really? You are using last years stats to say it is proven? OK you were able to come up for the 3 & outs for the Broncos. Tell us the 3 & outs for the Pats* (which I would expect to be the best in the NFL) & the Bills for the last 8 games. Lets see where Tebow & the Broncos compare to them.

[Philagape]

Oh, the average might be up to 4 this year :rofl:

[stuckincincy]

CHI's RB Marion Barber should be shown the door.

[OpIv37]

Well those are FEW & far between. I would be HAPPY with a QB that WINS 7 times out of 8 myself.

Except on our team, Tebow wouldn't be in a position to win 7 out of 8. When he gets the ball back with 2:00 left, we'll be down by 17+. He'd be lucky to win 1 out of 8.

[better days]

Oh, the average might be up to 4 this year :rofl:

Well, how is it you could pull those numbers up for denver (I couldn't from the site you listed) but you can't pull them up for ANY other team? Sounds to me like you pulled those numbers out of your ass.

And if the number is 4 this year that means in 6 of the 8 games played Tebow had numbers at least as good as the average of the league so you were WRONG saying he was so bad at keeping his team on the field.

[better days]

Except on our team, Tebow wouldn't be in a position to win 7 out of 8. When he gets the ball back with 2:00 left, we'll be down by 17+. He'd be lucky to win 1 out of 8.

Yeah, well it is a team game. I saw a fantasy football show on NFL Network this afternoon. All the experts on that show said to play Tebow against the Pats* Sunday.

[Philagape]

Well, how is it you could pull those numbers up for denver (I couldn't from the site you listed) but you can't pull them up for ANY other team? Sounds to me like you pulled those numbers out of your ass.

And if the number is 4 this year that means in 6 of the 8 games played Tebow had numbers at least as good as the average of the league so you were WRONG saying he was so bad at keeping his team on the field.

Your ability to read web pages is as bad as your ability to analyze football. The page listed all the teams' numbers. "Yds/Dr" means Yards Per Drive. I know that might be confusing for you.

I did pull the 4 out of my ass to show what a joke it would be if the three-and-out rate increased by over half in one year. And you tried to make a point off it. :rofl: You are a riot!

[Philagape]

Except on our team, Tebow wouldn't be in a position to win 7 out of 8. When he gets the ball back with 2:00 left, we'll be down by 17+. He'd be lucky to win 1 out of 8.

If Tebow had started the whole year for the Bills, they'd be 2-11 now. No way he scores enough to beat the Pats, Raiders or Eagles.

It's been overwhelmingly proven that he needs great defense to win, therefore he wouldn't win in Buffalo.

[YardRat]

Yup..

" If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.."

Are you from North Carolina too? Small world...

[better days]

Your ability to read web pages is as bad as your ability to analyze football. The page listed all the teams' numbers. "Yds/Dr" means Yards Per Drive. I know that might be confusing for you.

I did pull the 4 out of my ass to show what a joke it would be if the three-and-out rate increased by over half in one year. And you tried to make a point off it. :rofl: You are a riot!

Well, I still don't see how you are getting the 3 & outs for the individual games for Denver from that site. I see they had about 26 yds/ drive.


I see NOTHING about individual games on that site.

In any event, you said the Denver Defense was outplaying the Denver Offense by a wide margin. I would not call the difference between 18 & 19 a large margin.

[Philagape]

Well, I still don't see how you are getting the 3 & outs for the individual games for Denver from that site. I see they had about 26 yds/ drive.


I see NOTHING about individual games on that site.

In any event, you said the Denver Defense was outplaying the Denver Offense by a wide margin. I would not call the difference between 18 & 19 a large margin.

That's because you're being very simple-minded and superficial in your analysis, if it can even be called that. First, I listed just the wins with Tebow, not every game, because the reasons for winning are what's at issue.
Second, the defense has improved over the year, because they got key starters back from injury, and because their numbers are skewed by playing the Packers early. You said it was because Tebow kept them off the field, when clearly he didn't.
Which brings up No. 3: The Broncos' defense has to come back onto the field frequently, which means their total numbers are not as telling as their per-drive performance.

And individual game stats are available on any major site, CBS, ESPN, etc. Here are the drive stats from the Bears game: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/drivecharts/NFL_20111211_CHI@DEN
It's still so funny that you said they "rarely" go 3-and-out right after they do it seven times.

[Philagape]

Breaking it down further, in yards per play, the offense is 24th while the defense is 12th-best. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/

[imbondz]

Denver is nowhere and Tebow is irrelevant without their defense.

When you're winning games by scores of 18-15, 17-10, 17-13, 16-13, 13-10, which side of the ball is doing better?

I agree to an extent, I don't think this Denver run will last, but I hope it does. My only thought against yours is that Denver got rid of their best long ball WR threat, and Tebow does not have a lot of solid targets accept Decker. They did beat the Vikings 35-32.

[imbondz]

it's very strange the angst against Tebow. I've never heard of finding out last years 3 and outs to prove that a QB isn't doing good. If you have to go that far, I don't know, doesn't seem legit. I still don't think this run will last, but I also think Tebow is improving and could be a great QB.

[imbondz]

the intangible is what if Tebows leadership is the reason for Denvers insane defensive turnaround? then it's a discussion that's goes around in circles on if Tebow is a good QB.

[Philagape]

I agree to an extent, I don't think this Denver run will last, but I hope it does. My only thought against yours is that Denver got rid of their best long ball WR threat, and Tebow does not have a lot of solid targets accept Decker. They did beat the Vikings 35-32.

Obviously that's an exception, and it's worth noting that one of their TDs was by the defense and another one was a 24-yard McGahee run. The others show they do have a big-play threat at WR; Thomas scored TDs of 21 and 41 yards. He's a great athlete and more talented than Lloyd; he was the first WR drafted last year. He's just had trouble staying healthy.

[better days]

Obviously that's an exception, and it's worth noting that one of their TDs was by the defense and another one was a 24-yard McGahee run. The others show they do have a big-play threat at WR; Thomas scored TDs of 21 and 41 yards. He's a great athlete and more talented than Lloyd; he was the first WR drafted last year. He's just had trouble staying healthy.

If Thomas were on MOST teams he would be the 3rd WR, not the #1.

[Philagape]

it's very strange the angst against Tebow. I've never heard of finding out last years 3 and outs to prove that a QB isn't doing good. If you have to go that far, I don't know, doesn't seem legit. I still don't think this run will last, but I also think Tebow is improving and could be a great QB.

Most people don't have to see the numbers to know the reality, but a mouthy fanboy will bring out the argumentative side of me, along with a ridiculous media hypestorm fueled by the sorry state of celebrity-driven, shallow sports "journalism."
All I've done is present the most relevant facts. Denver is winning because of their defense (and a rather soft schedule), and it's unjust and outrageous to heap all the glory on someone who doesn't deserve it.

[better days]

If Tebow had started the whole year for the Bills, they'd be 2-11 now. No way he scores enough to beat the Pats, Raiders or Eagles.

It's been overwhelmingly proven that he needs great defense to win, therefore he wouldn't win in Buffalo.

Well, when the Bills played the Pats*, the Bills defense played WELL, intercepting Brady 4 times.

We will see soon how Tebow plays against the Pats* but Fantasy football experts are saying to play Tebow against the Pats* so they must think he will put up numbers.

[better days]

Most people don't have to see the numbers to know the reality, but a mouthy fanboy will bring out the argumentative side of me, along with a ridiculous media hypestorm fueled by the sorry state of celebrity-driven, shallow sports "journalism."
All I've done is present the most relevant facts. Denver is winning because of their defense (and a rather soft schedule), and it's unjust and outrageous to heap all the glory on someone who doesn't deserve it.

You are the MOUTHY one. Show a LINK to the stats with Tebows 3 & outs against individual teams. You have not yet.

You posted the stats & provided a link that had nothing to do with 3 & out against individual teams.

[Philagape]

If Thomas were on MOST teams he would be the 3rd WR, not the #1.

I've been very patient with your repeated ignorance, but you're getting to be too ridiculous to take seriously. Over and over and over again, you simply have no idea what you're talking about, and you keep digging and digging further, making yourself look more like a fool with each new stupid comment. I'm putting you on ignore to avoid the temptation to call you the names that you deserve.

[Jaydog57]

One thing I'm curious about is how teams will respond to Denver's offense next year, after major adjustments have been made to opposing teams defensive schemes. Three years ago Miami employed the then rarely used (in the NFL) 'wildcat' offense, using it regularly throughout games. It helped immensely and we went 11-5. The next year teams were wise to it, and a lot more teams were using it more frequently. Defenses saw it before it started. I wonder if that's going to happen to Tebow & the Broncos next year. :peace:

[better days]

One thing I'm curious about is how teams will respond to Denver's offense next year, after major adjustments have been made to opposing teams defensive schemes. Three years ago Miami employed the then rarely used (in the NFL) 'wildcat' offense, using it regularly throughout games. It helped immensely and we went 11-5. The next year teams were wise to it, and a lot more teams were using it more frequently. Defenses saw it before it started. I wonder if that's going to happen to Tebow & the Broncos next year. :peace:

Well, since more teams started using the wildcat, it made sense for teams to take the time to scheme & practice against it.

Few teams would have the ability to run Denvers offense because few QBs have a similar skill set as Tebow. There are QBs that are as mobile as Tebow, but the only QB I can think of that is as tough is Roethlisberger & he doesn't have Tebows mobility.

With only Denver running this offense it would be a case of diminishing returns to invest a lot of time to try to defend against it except for the teams in their division.

The big thing is if you watch Denver, the offense looks different from week to week. The OC is doing a great job mixing things up. It will be interesting to watch what the Broncos do against the Pats*.

On the one hand the Broncos will need to put points on the board & the Pats* have a suspect secondary so you would think they may pass a lot. On the other hand the Broncos need to control the clock as much as possible to limit the time Brady spends on the field. That would suggest a heavy dose of the run game.

Belicheck has been called a defensive genious many times. I guess we will see Sunday if a week is enough time for the genious to game plan against the Broncos Offense. He has more than enough film of Tebow & the Broncos to study.

[Figster]

Most people don't have to see the numbers to know the reality, but a mouthy fanboy will bring out the argumentative side of me, along with a ridiculous media hypestorm fueled by the sorry state of celebrity-driven, shallow sports "journalism."
All I've done is present the most relevant facts. Denver is winning because of their defense (and a rather soft schedule), and it's unjust and outrageous to heap all the glory on someone who doesn't deserve it.


While I agree with you that the Defense has played a big part in Denvers success, the only real thing that stands out about the Denver Broncos is they lead the National Football League in rushing.

Tim Tebow at 5.5 yards a carry,(517yards) good leadership abilities, and exceptional play at crunch time is still a big part of the equation in my opinion.

All of this glory you speak of Philigape, (and this is just me) but I think its being channeled in the right direction and its not really Tebow thats getting it.

[better days]

While I agree with you that the Defense has played a big part in Denvers success, the only real thing that stands out about the Denver Broncos is they lead the National Football League in rushing.

Tim Tebow at 5.5 yards a carry,(517yards) good leadership abilities, and exceptional play at crunch time is still a big part of the equation in my opinion.

All of this glory you speak of Philigape, (and this is just me) but I think its being channeled in the right direction and its not really Tebow thats getting it.

There is no question Denvers defense deserves credit for the wins as much as anything else. The fact is Football is a team game The defense, offense with Tebow & special teams ALL deserve credit for Denvers winning streak.
Along with the Coaching.

As far as the Glory, there is nobody more humble than Tebow. He constantly says his teammates make him look better than he really is.

[Philagape]

While I agree with you that the Defense has played a big part in Denvers success, the only real thing that stands out about the Denver Broncos is they lead the National Football League in rushing.

Tim Tebow at 5.5 yards a carry,(517yards) good leadership abilities, and exceptional play at crunch time is still a big part of the equation in my opinion.

All of this glory you speak of Philigape, (and this is just me) but I think its being channeled in the right direction and its not really Tebow thats getting it.

Must be some other guy named Tebow ...
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/274/463/TebowSIcover_original.jpg
And maybe it's the other Tebow who gets an entire one-hour TebowCenter on ESPN ....
http://deadspin.com/5866144/every-tebow-uttered-on-espns-tebowcenter-today


I give Tebow credit for being a leader and for playing the best when the pressure is highest (which seems to be the only time he plays well). I've said before, he's a fine running back.
But like I said, none of this happens on a team (like the Bills) that doesn't have a defense.

[Jaydog57]

Must be some other guy named Tebow ...
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/274/463/TebowSIcover_original.jpg
And maybe it's the other Tebow who gets an entire one-hour TebowCenter on ESPN ....
http://deadspin.com/5866144/every-tebow-uttered-on-espns-tebowcenter-today


I give Tebow credit for being a leader and for playing the best when the pressure is highest (which seems to be the only time he plays well). I've said before, he's a fine running back.
But like I said, none of this happens on a team (like the Bills) that doesn't have a defense.He gets plenty of coverage, no question about it. He's also on the premiere issue of NFL Magazine. :peace:

[blackonyx89]

Most people don't have to see the numbers to know the reality, but a mouthy fanboy will bring out the argumentative side of me, along with a ridiculous media hypestorm fueled by the sorry state of celebrity-driven, shallow sports "journalism."
All I've done is present the most relevant facts. Denver is winning because of their defense (and a rather soft schedule), and it's unjust and outrageous to heap all the glory on someone who doesn't deserve it.

The way things are right now and the way Fitz is playing, I'll take Tebow's heart over Fitz's brain any day. He would make this team at least 2 games better if the game was close and there were a couple of games he could've pulled out that Fitz couldn't. Still, the franchise is in disarray thanks to old Ralphie boy! Sell Ralph, sell this franchise to someone who cares to win!!!

:help!: SOF (Save Our Franchise)!!!!

[better days]

He gets plenty of coverage, no question about it. He's also on the premiere issue of NFL Magazine. :peace:

Of course Tebow gets coverage. He has MANY fans & he also has haters, but few people are ambivalent about him. He sell mags & drives up viewership. That is exactly what the Media craves.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/274/463/TebowSIcover_original.jpg
He's toast.

[trapezeus]

wht is the difference between tebow and Charlie Sheen's Wild thing character from Major league? the sex?

tebow is just as inaccurate. and yet, still getting it done. maybe he needs glasses.

[Figster]

Must be some other guy named Tebow ...
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/274/463/TebowSIcover_original.jpg
And maybe it's the other Tebow who gets an entire one-hour TebowCenter on ESPN ....
http://deadspin.com/5866144/every-tebow-uttered-on-espns-tebowcenter-today


I give Tebow credit for being a leader and for playing the best when the pressure is highest (which seems to be the only time he plays well). I've said before, he's a fine running back.
But like I said, none of this happens on a team (like the Bills) that doesn't have a defense.


Point taken

[imbondz]

Most people don't have to see the numbers to know the reality, but a mouthy fanboy will bring out the argumentative side of me, along with a ridiculous media hypestorm fueled by the sorry state of celebrity-driven, shallow sports "journalism."
All I've done is present the most relevant facts. Denver is winning because of their defense (and a rather soft schedule), and it's unjust and outrageous to heap all the glory on someone who doesn't deserve it.

I think you're missing the point. It's not about that I don't think. It's about this kid who every single NFL sports analyst said would absolutely fail, and he's not...at least yet. Doesn't matter how he's getting it done, it's a great sports story of all those cliches. Believe, have faith, don't every give up, there's no i in team...whatever. Tebow reflects all of those and more and it's just a great story no matter how Denver is winning. And I have no problem with the media focusing on him, who any parent in America should want their kids to turn out like, at least in his character, and drive to be successful. I'd rather hear about Tebow than Suh, Harrison, Rothleseberger...etc.

[Bill Cody]

I give Tebow credit for being a leader and for playing the best when the pressure is highest (which seems to be the only time he plays well). I've said before, he's a fine running back.
But like I said, none of this happens on a team (like the Bills) that doesn't have a defense.

It's tough to win in the NFL with a 1st year starting QB, look around the league. Mostly because they tend to turn the ball over. You have to give Tebow credit for not doing that, that's rare.

And you also have to say confidence is a factor. The Bills descent this year has been partly rooted to our pitiful depth when injuries hit but also Fitz was playing a lot better earlier in the year. Winning is contagious just like losing. Tebow is a very competitive guy. The Broncos have bought in. To think he's not a big reason they're winning is pretty silly. That same defense was losing games in the beginning of the year under Orton. Of course Orton was turning it over.

[better days]

wht is the difference between tebow and Charlie Sheen's Wild thing character from Major league? the sex?

tebow is just as inaccurate. and yet, still getting it done. maybe he needs glasses.

Well Kurt Warner had Tebow rated as the 5th best QB in the NFL on his list this week.

Also, I just saw today on Profootballtalk.com that Doug Flutie said he is a Tebow fan & he gives Tebow credit for helping the Bronco defense by keeping the offense on the field so long during games.

I already posted Fantasy Football experts on NFL Network said to play Tebow this week against the Pats*

But you haters can keep on hating, I love how he keeps proving you all WRONG.

[Bill Cody]

Also, I just saw today on Profootballtalk.com that Doug Flutie said he is a Tebow fan & he gives Tebow credit for helping the Bronco defense by keeping the offense on the field so long during games.



People didn't get Doug Flutie around here either. Robosack had better stats. But Flutie was a winner.

[Philagape]

I think you're missing the point. It's not about that I don't think. It's about this kid who every single NFL sports analyst said would absolutely fail, and he's not...at least yet. Doesn't matter how he's getting it done, it's a great sports story of all those cliches. Believe, have faith, don't every give up, there's no i in team...whatever. Tebow reflects all of those and more and it's just a great story no matter how Denver is winning. And I have no problem with the media focusing on him, who any parent in America should want their kids to turn out like, at least in his character, and drive to be successful. I'd rather hear about Tebow than Suh, Harrison, Rothleseberger...etc.

I think it does matter how they're winning. Not only because the credit should go where it's most due, but for some of the reasons you stated. Yes, it is a good story ... I mean, just look at the Bears game. Barber running out of bounds?? Then fumbling?? A 59-yard FG?? That's what suggests to me that something bigger is happening here, because God says He uses the weak and foolish things of the world. It would be just like Him to make a team win with a QB who sucks for 58 minutes. That, in addition to a general fervency for truth, is why I don't like the vessel getting the glory.

[Philagape]

It's tough to win in the NFL with a 1st year starting QB, look around the league. Mostly because they tend to turn the ball over. You have to give Tebow credit for not doing that, that's rare.

And you also have to say confidence is a factor. The Bills descent this year has been partly rooted to our pitiful depth when injuries hit but also Fitz was playing a lot better earlier in the year. Winning is contagious just like losing. Tebow is a very competitive guy. The Broncos have bought in. To think he's not a big reason they're winning is pretty silly. That same defense was losing games in the beginning of the year under Orton. Of course Orton was turning it over.

Like I said in another thread, it's not the same defense. Dumervil, Bailey and DJ Williams missed several games early in the year.
Tebow contributes with his one big drive a game, but he's not the primary reason they're winning. In fact, he's the primary reason they need to come back in every game. He does NOT stay on the field.

[mjt328]

We did have Tim Tebow on our team (well, at least someone very much like him).

His name was Doug Flutie.


Just like Tebow, Flutie was not known for his accuracy. He had a weak arm by NFL standards, and was so short that he was almost worthless as a pocket passer. The Bills had to adjust the entire offense to compensate for his lack of conventional NFL skills.

Just like Tebow, Flutie got a lot of ridiculous media attention for his "magic" at the end of games, and regular comebacks. And just like Tebow, the media liked to ignore Buffalo's outstanding defense that dominated opponents and kept the team in games.

Just like Tebow, the Bills coaches and front office hated having Flutie under center and looked for any and every opportunity to send him back to the bench.


BUT JUST LIKE TEBOW...
The Bills kept winning with Flutie. And winning. And winning.
The same team couldn't win with Rob Johnson. They haven't been a winner since Flutie went back to the bench.


See, the thing about guys like Tebow and Flutie is that they know how to operate under pressure. They might not have the greatest passing skills or physical talent. But when it's the fourth quarter and the team needs a drive, some guys (Tony Romo for instance) start making mistakes and choking in the heat of the moment. Guys like Tebow and Flutie elevate their play and the play of those around them. They simply know how to win.

It's the same reason that guys like Tom Brady and Joe Montana have tons of Super Bowl rings and are considered the greatest of all time, when more talented quarterbacks (Peyton Manning and Dan Marino) have the stats, but not so many championships.

[Philagape]

They haven't been a winner since Flutie went back to the bench.

Neither was Flutie. He went 8-14 in San Diego. His time was done. He got his 15 minutes in the NFL and fizzled out.

[Figster]

I think it does matter how they're winning. Not only because the credit should go where it's most due, but for some of the reasons you stated. Yes, it is a good story ... I mean, just look at the Bears game. Barber running out of bounds?? Then fumbling?? A 59-yard FG?? That's what suggests to me that something bigger is happening here, because God says He uses the weak and foolish things of the world. It would be just like Him to make a team win with a QB who sucks for 58 minutes. That, in addition to a general fervency for truth, is why I don't like the vessel getting the glory.


You just said it yourself , theres something bigger going on here. Despite the vessel receiving all the attention, God has still chosen to use him as an instrument of communication so it makes Tebow something really special.

If Tim Tebow keeps winning and wins a Championship he would probably do more for God in one season then all of our Churches combined...

[Philagape]

You just said it yourself , theres something bigger going on here. Despite the vessel receiving all the attention, God has still chosen to use him as an instrument of communication so it makes Tebow something really special.

If Tim Tebow keeps winning and wins a Championship he would probably do more for God in one season then all of our Churches combined...

The whole point of God using weaker vessels is that they're not special.
And the Gospel hasn't needed football for 1,900 years, and I think it's survived. If Tebow preaches the unadulterated Gospel of forgiveness through faith and repentance, wonderful. But him being a famous QB will get no one saved. Only the Gospel itself does that.
Celebrity and Christianity are almost never a good mix.

[Mad Bomber]

The whole point of God using weaker vessels is that they're not special.
And the Gospel hasn't needed football for 1,900 years, and I think it's survived. If Tebow preaches the unadulterated Gospel of forgiveness through faith and repentance, wonderful. But him being a famous QB will get no one saved. Only the Gospel itself does that.
Celebrity and Christianity are almost never a good mix.God doesn't care about football (there are plenty of Christians on losing teams). He does care about people giving him praise and bearing witness to Him. That's what Tebow does.

[SABURZFAN]

if the Bills had Tebow, yordad, aka better days, would be jerking off to his jersey every night. then again, he probably does that to the Broncos jersey he has.

[mjt328]

Neither was Flutie. He went 8-14 in San Diego. His time was done. He got his 15 minutes in the NFL and fizzled out.

Good point. But I think you forget how incredibly bad San Diego was when Flutie signed.


The Chargers were 1-15 the year before Flutie signed. He helped them improve to 5-11 in 2001. The season after, Drew Brees took over and Flutie went back to the bench.


I'm not trying to say that Tebow is taking the Broncos to the Super Bowl any time soon. All I'm saying is that certain guys know how to step up and help their team win games.

[better days]

Like I said in another thread, it's not the same defense. Dumervil, Bailey and DJ Williams missed several games early in the year.
Tebow contributes with his one big drive a game, but he's not the primary reason they're winning. In fact, he's the primary reason they need to come back in every game. He does NOT stay on the field.

Well, Orton started the first five games & led the Broncos to a 1-4 record.

Here is a question to anyone that thinks Tebow is getting too much credit for the Broncos 8-5 record. Does anyone that watched Orton play the first 5 games think he would have taken that team from 1-4 to 8-5 had he remained the starter?

If Orton could have done that, then Tebow is getting too much credit. But I can't believe ANYONE that knows Football & WATCHED how TERRIBLE Orton was the first 5 games can honestly answer yes the Broncos would have been 8-5 with Orton at QB.

[Philagape]

Good point. But I think you forget how incredibly bad San Diego was when Flutie signed.


The Chargers were 1-15 the year before Flutie signed. He helped them improve to 5-11 in 2001. The season after, Drew Brees took over and Flutie went back to the bench.


I'm not trying to say that Tebow is taking the Broncos to the Super Bowl any time soon. All I'm saying is that certain guys know how to step up and help their team win games.

2001 was Tomlinson's first year too, btw. And Flutie is certainly an upgrade over Ryan Leaf.

By saying Flutie didn't win because he was on a bad team just goes to show that he needed help to win, just like Tebow. Of course they contribute, but our ESPN fanboy culture makes it all about the QB and nothing else.

[better days]

Neither was Flutie. He went 8-14 in San Diego. His time was done. He got his 15 minutes in the NFL and fizzled out.

Yes Fluties time was done when he got to the Chargers, he was about 40 years old. Tebow on the other hand is just starting out & getting better by the week.

[Jaydog57]

Of course Tebow gets coverage. He has MANY fans & he also has haters, but few people are ambivalent about him. He sell mags & drives up viewership. That is exactly what the Media craves.Yeah, he has tons of fans, that's for sure. I'm from Gainesville, and grew up with Gator mania. It was hard, lol. He's like Jesus there, but after seeing him in the pro's, you can see he's a good guy. He ALWAYS gives props to his team, and never takes credit for wins himself. I get tired of hearing about him in the press, but he is a 'feel good story,' and the press eats it up. That's no fault of his, he's just playing football, what the media does with it is not up to him. I'm not a hater, just tired of the coverage, and like I said, that's not his problem. He's just doing the best he can. You can't ask for anything more than that. :peace:

[Figster]

The whole point of God using weaker vessels is that they're not special.
And the Gospel hasn't needed football for 1,900 years, and I think it's survived. If Tebow preaches the unadulterated Gospel of forgiveness through faith and repentance, wonderful. But him being a famous QB will get no one saved. Only the Gospel itself does that.
Celebrity and Christianity are almost never a good mix.


Right, and young kids don't look up to high profile athletes as an example to follow.

If God has gotten involved as you suggest why not ask yourself what his motive would be, Fun? Or saving Souls?

Celebrity and Christianity are never a good mix? hehe, what because they might reach more people?

Get real...

[Philagape]

Right, and young kids don't look up to high profile athletes as an example to follow.

If God has gotten involved as you suggest why not ask yourself what his motive would be, Fun? Or saving Souls?

Get real...

If God is getting involved, then it's about Him and what He's doing, not football players. He alone saves. When we stand in judgment, no one can appeal to Tim Tebow, but only how we responded to the call of Christ to repent, believe, obey and persevere in our own lives.
Ultimately, Christ is our example, not athletes, not any man.

[Philagape]

Celebrity and Christianity are never a good mix? hehe, what because they might reach more people?

Depends on what you mean by "reach."
Someone who repents and believes because they know they're a sinner in need of salvation has been reached.
Someone who thinks God is cool because Tim Tebow wins football games has not been reached.

[Figster]

If God is getting involved, then it's about Him and what He's doing, not football players. He alone saves. When we stand in judgment, no one can appeal to Tim Tebow, but only how we responded to the call of Christ to repent, believe, obey and persevere in our own lives.
Ultimately, Christ is our example, not athletes, not any man.


So you say Tim Tebow is getting all the glory and fame yet you yourself admit its really more about God and the message he is sending. How will everyone know what example to follow without men like Tebow?

Someone has to spread the word...

[Figster]

Depends on what you mean by "reach."
Someone who repents and believes because they know they're a sinner in need of salvation has been reached.
Someone who thinks God is cool because Tim Tebow wins football games has not been reached.

Thinking God is cool is a step in the right direction,

Lead all the sheep to water, so that they may drink...:trance:

[Philagape]

How will everyone know what example to follow without men like Tebow?

By reading the Bible.

Men will always fail. We are not to put our trust in them. They can spread the word, but the results will depend on the word being spread, not the messenger.

[Figster]

By reading the Bible.

Men will always fail. We are not to put our trust in them. They can spread the word, but the results will depend on the word being spread, not the messenger.


Do you even live in the real world?

[Philagape]

Do you even live in the real world?

We're in the world, but not of it.

[Figster]

We're in the world, but not of it.


Men will always fail, but mankind will continue to triumph...