Stevie Johnson lmost done in Buffalo?

[jamze132]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7353302/steve-johnson-buffalo-bills-ponders-future-talks-end

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Stevie Johnson could be down to playing his final games with the Buffalo Bills after contract talks broke off a few weeks ago.

Though the team's top receiver -- and most colorful player -- would prefer re-signing with the Bills, Johnson is now left pondering the future after the team rejected his last offer.

Based on how negotiations ended, Johnson said the ball is essentially in the Bills' court because there's no reason for him to re-open talks before he's eligible to become a free agent this offseason.

[Night Train]

OMG ! ( fake concern over an ESPN blog blurb )

[clumping platelets]

Bills have the franchise tag. They will not let him go for nothing

[dannyek71]

Bills have the franchise tag. They will not let him go for nothing


With the decisions this organization has made, nothing would surprise me.

[better days]

If they can't come to an agreement with Stevie, I would be fine with franchiseing him. The Bills need to spend some money & keep this guy.

The Pats* wasted over $6 Mill on Ocho this year & he has caught something like 13 passes. I would hate to see Stevie in N.E.

[trapezeus]

like i said before, if the bills walk from stevie, i most likely will not watch next season. it's just proof that they want to stay on this stupid circle of developing 3 players off a 52 man roster and let them go for nothing.

with the cap space they have, it's inexcusable if they don't sign him.

[Ickybaluky]

The Pats* wasted over $6 Mill on Ocho this year & he has caught something like 13 passes. I would hate to see Stevie in N.E.

The Pats need to re-sign or franchise Welker, so I doubt they sign a big-money FA WR.

That said, if they don't franchise him I would guess he would attract some interest from some WR-needy team. Franchising seems the best option if they can't extend him.

[elltrain22]

The real sad part of this story won't be that we let Stevie sign w/ another team, but the sad part of the story will be who we will replace him with.

This organization pisses me off so much!!

[Stewie]

My guess is he will get top 15 receiver money. Stevie earned a ton by publicly beating Revis

[Bill Cody]

My guess is he will get top 15 receiver money. Stevie earned a ton by publicly beating Revis

And that jet crashing thing had to be worth a couple mil right?

[jamze132]

Stevie is worth $6-8 mil per IMO. I would offer him that for 6 years with easily attained escalators based on games played. Obvious bonus for awards etc.

[BillsFever21]

Stevie is worth $6-8 mil per IMO. I would offer him that for 6 years with easily attained escalators based on games played. Obvious bonus for awards etc.
And that would be a very fair contract that myself and others have stated numerous times on this board. Some people are willing to give him whatever it takes to keep him even if it means giving him a 6yr-70 million dollar contract with 25-30 million guaranteed money which he obviously isn't worth at this point. I'd love to negotiate a deal for a house, car or pawn shop with them. They would just take the first offer given if they wanted it bad enough.

I would offer him 7-8 million a year and if he isn't willing to accept it then use the franchise tag on him. That would give us a chance to still negotiate with him, find a replacement for him while still having him on the team next year or trade him for a 2nd round draft pick. Either way you get something out of him.

If he thinks he is worth more then that right now or in the future I'd give him 10 million a year on average for a short contract for 2-3 with around 30-35% of it guaranteed.

If he is the real deal he is still very young that when that contract was up he would still be young enough at 27 or 28 years old to get a lucrative long-term deal for even more money on the next deal and would make out from it. If he isn't then we're not tied up in that much guaranteed money and years for him and he loses out on the extra guaranteed money.

We have the upperhand in the negotiations. If he is asking for more then fair market value and isn't willing to budge then we can just franchise him and go from there. It would hurt him more because he would be prolonging his chance to get a substantial amount of guaranteed money and if he gets hurt then he is SOL. So more less the ball is in your court Stevie and not ours. You don't have a say in the matter whether you are here next year or not since we can use the franchise tag on you.

[YardRat]

Stevie is worth $6-8 mil per IMO. I would offer him that for 6 years with easily attained escalators based on games played. Obvious bonus for awards etc.

He's looking for nine.

Now play the GM...do you cave and overpay, franchise, or cut loose?

[Goobylal]

He's looking for nine.

Now play the GM...do you cave and overpay, franchise, or cut loose?
Exactly. Is he worth $9M/year? I say no. But do you (over)pay him because he's a talented young WR and his loss creates another hole?

[better days]

Stevie is worth $6-8 mil per IMO. I would offer him that for 6 years with easily attained escalators based on games played. Obvious bonus for awards etc.

Well, like I said, the Pats* paid Ocho over $6 Mill this year for about 13 catches so I think the starting price for Stevie is at least $8 Mill. He is both MUCH younger & better than Ocho at this point in time.

[Skooby]

I'd start him at $6M a season & give him an extra Million for every game winning pass he catches as an escalator clause, he would end up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofoK_QQxGc

[more cowbell]

5 years 40 million...that's what Sidney Rice signed last year with Seattle...I'd put Steve Dropson on the same level as him and he should get a similar deal.

[BertSquirtgum]

If this ******* won't take 7 million a year with incentives then let him go **** himself. Franchise him and trade him for another receiver who wants to be here.

[PromoTheRobot]

We all have an idea what SJ13 is worth. Now all we have to do is tell him what deal to sign.

PTR

[mrbojanglezs]

John Clayton said no team will pay him 9 mill. Says nothing he does is elite

[better days]

John Clayton said no team will pay him 9 mill. Says nothing he does is elite

Well, for the last 8 weeks Clayton has said the Broncos will lose this week. Clayton doesn't know anything.

[DraftBoy]

I'd like to see his deal somewhere between 7.25 and 8 per year. Basically the upper half of tier 2 money.

I dont want to give him 9 and I dont know that the team wants to spend the franchise tag on him either. If you're not willing to spend 9 million a year on him then why keep him for another year for even more money than he's asking for?

WR franchise tag was 9.5 in 2011.

[Cleve]

If this ******* won't take 7 million a year with incentives then let him go **** himself. Franchise him and trade him for another receiver who wants to be here.

Yeah, pretty much. I don't see him being worth more than $6 million a year - one good game against Revis doesn't make him the new James Lofton. The last thing we need on our team, as bad as it is, are prima-donnas who think they're worth more than they are.

[jamze132]

He's looking for nine.

Now play the GM...do you cave and overpay, franchise, or cut loose?
That's the question of the hour. Stevie has just as much responsibility as the FO to meet in the middle and call it a deal.

[jamze132]

Well, like I said, the Pats* paid Ocho over $6 Mill this year for about 13 catches so I think the starting price for Stevie is at least $8 Mill. He is both MUCH younger & better than Ocho at this point in time.
You can't compare Ochocinco's contract with Stevie's. if anything, Ochocinco is the perfect example why you don't give him that much money gauranteed.

[ddaryl]

we can franchise him for 1 season at $9 mil so there would be no reason to sign him to multiple year contract for $9 mil until he produces liek a real #1 WR

right now I view Steve as a rock solid #2 WR.

[DraftBoy]

we can franchise him for 1 season at $9 mil so there would be no reason to sign him to multiple year contract for $9 mil until he produces liek a real #1 WR

right now I view Steve as a rock solid #2 WR.

No you can't. We can't just set the franchise tag price. It's already over 9 million a year.

[jamze132]

The WR tag is going to be over $10M next season. Is Stevie worth $10M for the opportunity to continue negotiating? Who's to say he would even negotiate after being tagged?

I was never a huge fan of the franchise tag.

[jamze132]

Can a MOD fix the friggin thread title? Looks like a crackhead spelled "Almost".

[OpIv37]

The WR tag is going to be over $10M next season. Is Stevie worth $10M for the opportunity to continue negotiating? Who's to say he would even negotiate after being tagged?

I was never a huge fan of the franchise tag.

This.

This team is screwed either way.

If we let Johnson walk, then we have a glaring hole at WR.

But does anyone really think this team- or any other team- can win if they are using $10+ million of cap space (and more importantly, Ralph's cash-to-crap space) on a player who can't be counted on when the game is on the line?

[trapezeus]

maybe the bills can ask fitz to hand over some of the money he isn't earning to stevie.

stevie had 41% of the yards last week. without him, this team that lacks talent lacks even more talent.

the bills should be ashamed of themselves if they let him go.

Next year if we don't have a satsified fred, a drafted QB, an upgrade at DC, a legitimate OLB by starting day, we should organize the walk out. This team is so uncommitted to winning, it hurts.

[Cleve]

maybe the bills can ask fitz to hand over some of the money he isn't earning to stevie.

stevie had 41% of the yards last week. without him, this team that lacks talent lacks even more talent.

the bills should be ashamed of themselves if they let him go.

Next year if we don't have a satsified fred, a drafted QB, an upgrade at DC, a legitimate OLB by starting day, we should organize the walk out. This team is so uncommitted to winning, it hurts.

We won't draft a QB - Gailey came right out and said it the other day.

Are these guys stupid or what? Fitzpatrick's performance has clearly declined ever since he was given the security of a big juicy contract - his QB rating since signing the contract is 61.

Now Gailey wants him to feel even more content and secure? Gailey oughta just go get Fitzpatrick a binkey and a security blanket while he's at it.

His better response would have been "all the cards are still on the table" rather than say no or yes.

[Bill Cody]

This.

This team is screwed either way.

If we let Johnson walk, then we have a glaring hole at WR.

But does anyone really think this team- or any other team- can win if they are using $10+ million of cap space (and more importantly, Ralph's cash-to-crap space) on a player who can't be counted on when the game is on the line?

We have no cap issues even with Johnson tagged. But there's a high likelihod someone would take him in trade so it won't matter. If he won't sign he'll be tagged and traded IMO.

[OpIv37]

We have no cap issues even with Johnson tagged. But there's a high likelihod someone would take him in trade so it won't matter. If he won't sign he'll be tagged and traded IMO.

No one is going to give up draft picks AND spend $10+ million on Stevie.

And we don't have cap issues but we do have cash-to-crap issues.

[DraftBoy]

We have no cap issues even with Johnson tagged. But there's a high likelihod someone would take him in trade so it won't matter. If he won't sign he'll be tagged and traded IMO.

Its not about cap issues the idea that the Bills won't pay him $9 million but are willing to tag and potentially pay him $10 next year doesn't make sense.

[DraftBoy]

No one is going to give up draft picks AND spend $10+ million on Stevie.

And we don't have cap issues but we do have cash-to-crap issues.

If he's tagged and traded a team can make the deal contingent upon him signing a new deal which could be for less than $10 million but more than what the Bills are willing to pay.

[OpIv37]

If he's tagged and traded a team can make the deal contingent upon him signing a new deal which could be for less than $10 million but more than what the Bills are willing to pay.

1. If Stevie's franchised and knows he can make $10+ mil in Buff, why would he take a deal with another team for less than that?

2. Like you just said, the Bills won't pay him $9 million now, but if they franchise him and no one takes the trade bait, they're stuck paying him $10+ million.

[Bill Cody]

1. If Stevie's franchised and knows he can make $10+ mil in Buff, why would he take a deal with another team for less than that?

2. Like you just said, the Bills won't pay him $9 million now, but if they franchise him and no one takes the trade bait, they're stuck paying him $10+ million.

1) very simple: security. a franchise deal gets him 10m guaranteed. A long term deal could net him 2 or 3 X that. Think about it. Football injuries are a real concern for players. If he can get 8.5 mil for 5 years with 22m guaranteed he'll jump on that in a heartbeat.

2) So what? It's unlikely but if it happens it ain't coming out of your billfold. We're miles from the cap. So he's a couple mil overpaid for a year? no biggee.

[OpIv37]

1) very simple: security. a franchise deal gets him 10m guaranteed. A long term deal could net him 2 or 3 X that. Think about it. Football injuries are a real concern for players. If he can get 8.5 mil for 5 years with 22m guaranteed he'll jump on that in a heartbeat.

2) So what? It's unlikely but if it happens it ain't coming out of your billfold. We're miles from the cap. So he's a couple mil overpaid for a year? no biggee.

1. That's assuming someone is willing to give him that deal. I'm not convinced.

2. It ain't coming out of my pocket- it's coming out of Ralph's pocket. And it's well established that the man is not exactly a big spender. We were miles from the cap last year- the team wanted to re-sign Poz and let him walk over a couple of million. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same with Stevie.

[Bill Cody]

1. That's assuming someone is willing to give him that deal. I'm not convinced.

2. It ain't coming out of my pocket- it's coming out of Ralph's pocket. And it's well established that the man is not exactly a big spender. We were miles from the cap last year- the team wanted to re-sign Poz and let him walk over a couple of million. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same with Stevie.

1) the thing is if we allow Johnson to check the market and he finds no takers at his price why not resign with Buffalo? Our exposure here is small.

2) Poz is not a similar situation. No chance anyone thought Poz is a franchise player. And the deal Poz got from Jacksonville was way more than he was worth or that we should have even considered matching, let's be serious. Jacksonville overpaid for a guy that was too small to play 3-4 ILB anyway. If you have proof that we let him walk for "a couple of million" I'd like to see it. Bet you don't.

[Ed]

If the Bills and Stevie can't come to an agreement before free agency begins then they have to franchise him. That gives the Bills the ability to continue negotiations or get value in a trade if another team is willing to make a deal that benefits the Bills.

The Bills may not be willing to give Stevie 9+ mil a year for 6 years or whatever, but that's not nearly the same as only committing 9.5 mil for one year. If he did end up playing next season under the franchise tag, it would still be manageable without the large long term investment. So I don't think we can just assume that the Bills won't be willing to pay him the franchise tag number because it's not the same situation as a long term deal. I would think that if he does get franchised though, they would be able to work out a deal. It's not like he wants out of Buffalo, he's just trying to maximize his earning potential, which is what all players do. He has no reason to cave at this point with the season almost over.

[BillsFever21]

I'd like to see his deal somewhere between 7.25 and 8 per year. Basically the upper half of tier 2 money.

I dont want to give him 9 and I dont know that the team wants to spend the franchise tag on him either. If you're not willing to spend 9 million a year on him then why keep him for another year for even more money than he's asking for?

WR franchise tag was 9.5 in 2011.

It would be worth it because you are not committing long term to him with 2-3 times the guaranteed money.

It would give us the chance to either still negotiate a fairer market value contract with him, keep him for one more season while we find/groom a replacement for him or even trade him for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick for him. We would most likely only get a 3rd out of him though with another lower round draft pick or another 3rd round pick the following year or maybe even a conditional 2nd round pick based off performance.

There is not a chance I would not let him walk for nothing though and the Bills would be stupid to let him. If they can't sign him to a fair contract extension or they don't want to then they need to at least franchise him and trade him. He is a young WR with enough value to get a 3rd round draft pick for give or take. We can't let him just walk for nothing though.

[DraftBoy]

1. If Stevie's franchised and knows he can make $10+ mil in Buff, why would he take a deal with another team for less than that?

2. Like you just said, the Bills won't pay him $9 million now, but if they franchise him and no one takes the trade bait, they're stuck paying him $10+ million.

1. Long term deal, guaranteed money, and signing bonus are awful nice incentives.

2. Agreed

[ddaryl]

Its not about cap issues the idea that the Bills won't pay him $9 million but are willing to tag and potentially pay him $10 next year doesn't make sense.

Makes total sense.. A $9 mil contract will be multiple years and will cost the team probably $25 million in guarantees.

Where as a franchise will pay him maybe $10 mil and that's it and he gets another year to prove he is really worth top $$$$.

Has Stevie actually played at a high enough level to be paid as a top 10 WR for multiple years.. Or should we lock him up with a franchise tag , hope his price comes down a couple million per for a long term deal and see what happens from there.

But if Stevie is demanding $9 mil I don't think he has played at a $9 mil level this year.

So would Stevie be willing to play all of next season on a franchise rate and chance a major injury or would he be willing to take a few million less, get a lot more guaranteed money and have some security ?

[streetkings01]

John Clayton said no team will pay him 9 mill. Says nothing he does is eliteWe knew this already, but if he's one of the top FAs available as far as WRs go teams will overpay for his service.

[DraftBoy]

It would be worth it because you are not committing long term to him with 2-3 times the guaranteed money.

It would give us the chance to either still negotiate a fairer market value contract with him, keep him for one more season while we find/groom a replacement for him or even trade him for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick for him. We would most likely only get a 3rd out of him though with another lower round draft pick or another 3rd round pick the following year or maybe even a conditional 2nd round pick based off performance.

There is not a chance I would not let him walk for nothing though and the Bills would be stupid to let him. If they can't sign him to a fair contract extension or they don't want to then they need to at least franchise him and trade him. He is a young WR with enough value to get a 3rd round draft pick for give or take. We can't let him just walk for nothing though.

You're operating under the assumption that we are close on the numbers. We know Stevie want 9 but what if the Bills are only offering between 6 and 7? There is alot that we don't know that greatly clouds the issue.

Also when is the last time a NFL team franchised a guy thus paying him more than he was asking for annually?

[Ed]

You're operating under the assumption that we are close on the numbers. We know Stevie want 9 but what if the Bills are only offering between 6 and 7? There is alot that we don't know that greatly clouds the issue.

Also when is the last time a NFL team franchised a guy thus paying him more than he was asking for annually?
Franchising Stevie wouldn't be much different then when the Bills franchised Peerless Price. They were offering Peerless about 3 mil a year, which he rejected. They franchised him, which would have paid him just over 5 mil, and he ended up signing a long term deal with the falcons for a little over 5 mil per year. The Bills didn't want to pay him 5 mil a year, but they franchised him anyway so that they could continue negotiating or trade him.

[DraftBoy]

Franchising Stevie wouldn't be much different then when the Bills franchised Peerless Price. They were offering Peerless about 3 mil a year, which he rejected. They franchised him, which would have paid him just over 5 mil, and he ended up signing a long term deal with the falcons for a little over 5 mil per year. The Bills didn't want to pay him 5 mil a year, but they franchised him anyway so that they could continue negotiating or trade him.

I understand that but Peerless Price was considered by many people to be a lock to breakout into a top flight WR. I'm not sure Stevie has the same market.

[YardRat]

I say piss on it, offer him 8.5 (even though that may be over-paying still) and hope he compromises a little. At this point, I'd rather the team wasted the money on the chance that he overcomes the critical drops than let him walk.

[ServoBillieves]

How miserable can this organization be? I ask that sincerely. We draft these players or sign these players to be breeded in to the role of a great player, and we immediately give up on them and let them walk.

Sign Fred, sigh Stevie, sign Scott, SIGN THE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE DEVELOPED IN TO GREAT PLAYERS.

This team can suck it if they don't resign these players, and they truly don't want to win if they don't. Just a miserable... miserable institution.

[Bert102176]

If this ******* won't take 7 million a year with incentives then let him go **** himself. Franchise him and trade him for another receiver who wants to be here.



doesn't seem like anyone wants to be here unless we over pay them to be here even then it's no certain thing, personally I give him 7.5 mil a year with incentives to earn upto 9mil a year, one of them incentives is he must catch 90+ balls a year, would make him catch more drop less I think.

[BertSquirtgum]

How miserable can this organization be? I ask that sincerely. We draft these players or sign these players to be breeded in to the role of a great player, and we immediately give up on them and let them walk.

Sign Fred, sigh Stevie, sign Scott, SIGN THE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE DEVELOPED IN TO GREAT PLAYERS.

This team can suck it if they don't resign these players, and they truly don't want to win if they don't. Just a miserable... miserable institution.

Fred is the only one I would consider great.

[better days]

I understand that but Peerless Price was considered by many people to be a lock to breakout into a top flight WR. I'm not sure Stevie has the same market.

Well, no other WR has had a game against Revis as good as Stevie. I think teams will notice that.

[BertSquirtgum]

One game doesn't mean ****. Worst arguement ever.

[mjt328]

In my opinion, the Bills should do whatever it takes to keep their top players, even if it means overpaying them.

1) They are nowhere near reaching the salary cap, so spending a few million more on Johnson, Jackson, etc. won't hurt us from being able to sign plenty of other names. In my opinion, a team that isn't at least close to the spending max isn't really trying very hard.

2) Buffalo is not an attractive place for coaches or players right now, because we suck and aren't showing any signs of turning it around. If we start keeping our better players, then we have a better chance of getting better - and suddenly we become a better option for free agents. Then we won't be forced to overpay, because people will actually WANT to play here.

[JohnnyGold]

resigning stevie should be priority number 1-2 and 3 this offseason.

say what you want about him not being a legit number 1, and i partially agree, but i think next season we're going to see quite a bit from marcus easley, we'll have parish back in the slot, and spiller and freddie in the backfield.

with the way our tight ends were playing at the beginning of the season, as well as our backup receivers, this offense will be DEADLY when healthy.

ALSO, it will be third season that stevie, fitz and gailey will have been together.

the last time the bills had that much consistancy on offense was with kelly reed and marv.

it is absolutely, 100% imperative that we resign stevie. nix knows this.