at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

[trapezeus]

With Erie county able to give $100MM to stadium renovations do you want that to happen or every household in erie county (~300,000) to divide the $100mm?

In years past i would say, "whatever to keep the bills" but at this point, i think i would rather get $333.34 back

What do you say? thoughts?

[Night Train]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

Most people agree with you.

Wilson wants a tax break/free ride but mismanages his professional football team. Upfront TV revenue makes it less important to try and compete.

Even with the new agreement that solidifies revenue sharing for a small market like Buffalo, he still worries far too much about the bottom line. Then donates $$ to have his name etched into buildings. Hmmm...now where did he get that $$ again ?

Profit is primary and winning is secondary.

So the threat of leaving doesn't carry the same weight it did..say, 12 years ago...you remember...when we actually cared about winning..

[Albany,n.y.]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

At least part of the $ should be raised with a special tax on all tickets sold. The ticket prices are below market. Just ask anyone who has put tickets on Ticket Exchange how much above face they can get for the good games (December is the exception when the season is down the drain & the weather gets colder). A friend of mine once paid for his whole season by selling about half the games on Ticket Exchange a couple of years ago.
Just add a tax to the tickets & lower the $ needed to a more reasonable level.

[Historian]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

Keep the money and issue me a share of stock

[jamze132]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

The county should give Ralph the money but with the stipulation he has to spend to the cap, and not cash to cap either. Show me the baby.

[Night Train]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

Keep the money and issue me a share of stock

Wait...Are we living in Green Bay ?

[BLeonard]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

Keep the money and issue me a share of stock

Ideally, that would be the best answer. It's how Green Bay is paying for their stadium upgrades. Unfortunately, the NFL currently doesn't allow it.

I've said them before, but here are my caveats for them getting the $100 Million:

1. Minimum 15 year lease. They have stated that $100 million would be recouped by player taxes, etc within 5 years. This means that the city/state will receive triple in their investment.

2. No out clauses in the lease. Period. They want the money, the team stays in Buffalo (OK, Orchard Park) for 15 years. No buyouts, no clauses for new owners, nothing.

3. No more Toronto Games. If they're wanting $100 million from the city and state, all home games must be played in the stadium that they are wanting the funds for. If they insist on playing 1/8 of the schedule outside of the stadium, they can pay that 1/8 for the upgrades, since the upgrades would basically be going to waste on an empty stadium, while they whore the team out to Toronto.

I've looked over the current lease multiple times and Ralph has it WAY too good. There are other things I would like to see Erie County get back in the new lease, but the above three things would be a nice start.

I know the majority of people would want some sort of "commitment to winning" clause(s) put in, but in a legal sense, that'd be tough to do... I'm as upset as anyone that they contantly have millions under the cap, but even if they spent it all, that wouldn't guarantee success, especially considering who the Bills have spent their money on in the past.

-Bill

[BillsFever21]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

This doesn't affect me any since I don't live in Erie County or NYS for that matter but as long as Wilson is the owner I'm sure there are many more people debating on whether it's worth paying all that extra money in taxes to keep upgrading the stadium and keeping the Bills around and deservingly so.

From my standpoint since it doesn't affect me any of course I would never want the Bills to lose. No matter how much more disgusted I get with them every season I am still a diehard fan and watching the NFL wouldn't be the same if the Bills were gone. Even though I haven't been to a game the past two seasons after attending at least one game for 13 straight years and every single game for 8 straight years up to a couple years ago I still watch every game and get excited for the season to start and root on the team even though my enthusiasm runs dry later in the season after my expectations of the team come to fruition. If the Bills moved I'm not sure if I would still be a fan of them. Especially if their games were not televised every week in my market.

Outside of the Bills games I'm just a casual NFL viewer until the playoffs and there are a lot of weeks I don't catch any other games due to having a life to live outside of football and my work schedule. Every Sunday when the Bills are on I make sure I'm there to watch it unless my work schedule dictates otherwise. Any other plans are out the window for that 3 hour period.

I never get to see any of the MNF games due to my work schedule and the two out of every three Sunday's I have off if I watch the 4pm or 8pm game it's just on a casual basis and if the matchup is crappy or the game isn't close or exciting I will watch or do something else.

If the Bills moved out of my market and the game were not televised every week I doubt I'd pay the almost $400 a year to order the Sunday ticket to see the games. Part of the reason is because it wouldn't be the same and worth the money if they were the LA Bills or wherever else they moved. I'd still follow and root for them since they would be the same players but as far dishing out hundreds of dollars a year to watch the games it's a 50/50 chance I would do it.

If the team name and identity changed and were no longer the Bills that would definitely be the clincher for me and it wouldn't even be a 2nd thought of spending all that money to watch them on the Sunday Ticket. I would just no longer have a favorite NFL team and would just casually watch the games on Sunday, etc.

I don't see me ever being able to become a diehard fan of another team after being a Bills fan since the day I started watching football as a kid if they moved under them circumstances. There would be some teams that I would follow and enjoy watching but it wouldn't matter to me if they won or lost.

I just hope it never does happen but seeing that I'm only in my 30's I could easily see the Bills playing somewhere else in my lifetime. Hopefully it never comes to that but I wouldn't blame the taxpayers of Erie County if they no longer wanted to dish out all that money to pay and keep them there anymore. Although they don't really have a choice in the matter if the county and Wilson(or future owner) agrees on a deal to keep them in Buffalo for decades more to come.

One thing is for sure as long as Wilson is the owner we will continue to be a losing team every season or an average team at best with an outside chance of making the playoffs in a given season but even that is asking a lot. As long as he is the owner the team will stay in Buffalo though but since he is over 90 years old it's only a matter of time. Once we get a new owner all bets are off the table as far as the team staying in Buffalo goes. We will have to wait and see how it plays out.

[YardRat]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

I know the majority of people would want some sort of "commitment to winning" clause(s) put in, but in a legal sense, that'd be tough to do... I'm as upset as anyone that they contantly have millions under the cap, but even if they spent it all, that wouldn't guarantee success, especially considering who the Bills have spent their money on in the past.

-Bill

It'd be easier than you think. Certainly easier than trying to enforce a no-out-clause contract with an owner that wants to move the team (all it'd take is the Art Modell move; contract the Bills and pick the new team up where they want to put it).

Just put a clause demanding a certain number of wins by a certain threshold, or else face severe financial penalties and/or termination. By focusing on tangible results instead of causes, it puts the burden on the team directly to win. And if they fail, well, we rid the region of losers.

[BLeonard]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

It'd be easier than you think. Certainly easier than trying to enforce a no-out-clause contract with an owner that wants to move the team (all it'd take is the Art Modell move; contract the Bills and pick the new team up where they want to put it).

Just put a clause demanding a certain number of wins by a certain threshold, or else face severe financial penalties and/or termination. By focusing on tangible results instead of causes, it puts the burden on the team directly to win. And if they fail, well, we rid the region of losers.

I gotta disagree with that. They've already stated that they were willing to put a clause in the lease that would pay back the entire amount funded if they broke the lease at any time dueing the term and that such a clause would be transferable in an ownership change.

Modell only moved the Browns after many years of Cuyohoga county refusing to help provide funds to improve Municipal Stadium and then, that same county funded construction for both Jacobs Field and Gund Arena.

As long as Erie County (or New York State) provide the funds, The Bills (or a new owner) would not be in the position that prompted Modell's move to Baltimore.

In the end, the lease has to be agreed on by both ends. There's no way any sports team on any level would contractually agree to, in essence, "guarantee" a certain winning percentage over a given period of time, especially not an NFL franchise. The three caveats I had, if the Bills are getting the funding, should be very agreeable:

1. Minimum 15 year lease. They've already said they would do a 10 year lease, to be in concert with the current CBA... Highly doubtful Ralph lives out the entirety of that deal... 5 more years wouldn't be that much of a compromise. Even at 10 years, the county and state would be getting back at least 2x the amount of money they put into the deal.

2. No out clauses in the lease. As I said, they've already said that they would be willing to agree on a clause that, if the lease was broken early, the team would be on the hook for the full amount of money given for the project. This is basically the same thing, just worded differently and gives Erie County and NYS a bit more security that the Bills will be around for the duration of the lease.

3. No more Toronto Games. Don't see why this would be an issue, either. If Erie County and NYS gives them the money they want, they really have no excuse to play games away from that stadium. If they want to play games in Toronto, they should then be responsible for that percentage of the cost, as they would be then voluntarily leaving the stadium in Orchard Park empty during those times. Erie County and NYS should not have to pay for an empty stadium, when the only reason that it would be empty is due to the Bills wanting to get more income elsewhere.

-Bill

[BertSquirtgum]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

I live in Niagara County and would give 500 dollars to guarantee the Bills stay in Buffalo for at least another 10 ten years. I don't care how ****ty they are. I love to hate them and hate that I love them.

[Michael82]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

I would happily pay another $20-30 per game for my tickets if it meant that the Bills were guaranteed to stay in Orchard Park/Buffalo.

As for the thread itself, Erie County needs to give Ralph and the Bills whatever they need to ensure that the team stays in Orchard Park. They can't let them leave at all! Or they might as well say goodbye to what's left of the economy.

[better days]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

With Erie county able to give $100MM to stadium renovations do you want that to happen or every household in erie county (~300,000) to divide the $100mm?

In years past i would say, "whatever to keep the bills" but at this point, i think i would rather get $333.34 back

What do you say? thoughts?

If the County does not spend the money on the Stadium, you don't really think you will see a penny of that $333.34 do you?

I can guarantee they will find somewhere else to spend that money & it won't be going in your pocket.

[YardRat]

Re: at our lowest lows as a fanbase, here is hypothetical

It'd be easier than you think. Certainly easier than trying to enforce a no-out-clause contract with an owner that wants to move the team (all it'd take is the Art Modell move; contract the Bills and pick the new team up where they want to put it).

Just put a clause demanding a certain number of wins by a certain threshold, or else face severe financial penalties and/or termination. By focusing on tangible results instead of causes, it puts the burden on the team directly to win. And if they fail, well, we rid the region of losers.

It would be easier to negotiate a contract with a teacher's union that was based on merit pay than it would to get a team to agree to financial concessions based on wins and losses.

In other words...It ain't happenin'...Ever.