Draft

[DesertFox24]

1. Indy - Luck
2. Min - Kahil
3. STL - Blackmon
4. Jax - Clairborne
5. Cle - Barkley
6. TB - Reiff
7. Was - Griffin
8. Car - Floyd
9. Mia - Devon Still
10. Buf -

Who would you take my 5 are below in order of who I want with this draft:
1. Coples
2. Martin
3. Kirkpatrick
4. Upshaw
5. DeCastro

[trapezeus]

i thought there is discussion in cleveland to stick with mccoy and give him some tools. if that happens, does griffin fall to us, or does barkley become our guy?

what are the pro's and cons in that hypothetical mccoy situation?

[Ed]

According to espn.com, Miami's SOS is .495 and Carolina's is .500. Buffalo's is .500 also. So I think Miami would pick ahead of Carolina, and Buffalo and Carolina would flip a coin.

I guess it doesn't really matter though either way. In this scenario I would probably take Kirkpatrick. I think at 10 you get better value with him then Upshaw. If we were going to more of a 4-3 I would consider Coples too.

[Ed]

i thought there is discussion in cleveland to stick with mccoy and give him some tools. if that happens, does griffin fall to us, or does barkley become our guy?

what are the pro's and cons in that hypothetical mccoy situation?
If Cleveland stayed with McCoy then Miami would grab RGIII or Barkley before we could.

[SpillerThrills]

I believe we would be picking before Miami based on our losses to them this season. had we split with them then it would come down to SOS. I could be wrong though.

[trapezeus]

If Cleveland stayed with McCoy then Miami would grab RGIII or Barkley before we could.

two games to go. we are falling below miami. we'll finish last in the division. you can guarantee that.

[Ed]

My understanding is that when it comes to the draft, SOS is the first tie-breaker. If SOS is tied then you default to playoff tie-breakers. As of right now Miami's SOS is slightly weaker then ours, so they would pick ahead of us.

[DraftBoy]

1. Indy - Luck
2. Min - Kahil
3. STL - Blackmon
4. Jax - Clairborne
5. Cle - Barkley
6. TB - Reiff
7. Was - Griffin
8. Car - Floyd
9. Mia - Devon Still
10. Buf -

Who would you take my 5 are below in order of who I want with this draft:
1. Coples
2. Martin
3. Kirkpatrick
4. Upshaw
5. DeCastro

Pretty solid though I don't think Miami goes back to PSU for Still after the disaster Odrick has been. They could take a guy like Coples or Upshaw though.

[mjt328]

According to espn.com, Miami's SOS is .495 and Carolina's is .500. Buffalo's is .500 also. So I think Miami would pick ahead of Carolina, and Buffalo and Carolina would flip a coin.

I guess it doesn't really matter though either way. In this scenario I would probably take Kirkpatrick. I think at 10 you get better value with him then Upshaw. If we were going to more of a 4-3 I would consider Coples too.

I've been looking for SOS for the last few weeks now.
Could you post the link where you found that on ESPN?

[Mr. Pink]

If Seneca Wallace plays these last two weeks and does what McCoy did or better, which isn't much considering how putrid Clevelands offense is, McCoy's days as the starting QB in Cleveland are over.

[better days]

According to espn.com, Miami's SOS is .495 and Carolina's is .500. Buffalo's is .500 also. So I think Miami would pick ahead of Carolina, and Buffalo and Carolina would flip a coin.

I guess it doesn't really matter though either way. In this scenario I would probably take Kirkpatrick. I think at 10 you get better value with him then Upshaw. If we were going to more of a 4-3 I would consider Coples too.

I think it is just STUPID that one team can lose to another TWICE, finish behind them in the division & still draft behind that team. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

[better days]

i thought there is discussion in cleveland to stick with mccoy and give him some tools. if that happens, does griffin fall to us, or does barkley become our guy?

what are the pro's and cons in that hypothetical mccoy situation?

Jax is starting over & I would not be surprised to see them draft a QB.

[YardRat]

Jax is starting over & I would not be surprised to see them draft a QB.

Even though they have Gabbert?

Once again, for the tiebreakers...

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING


Clubs not participating in the playoffs shall select in the first through 20th positions in reverse standings order.
The Super Bowl winner is last and Super Bowl loser is next-to-last.
The losers of the Conference Championship games shall select 29th and 30th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Divisional playoff games shall select 25th through 28th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Wild Card games shall select 21st through 24th based on won-lost-tied percentage. If ties exist in any grouping except (2) above, such ties shall be broken by strength-of-schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength-of-schedule, the divisional or conference tie-breakers, if applicable, shall be applied. Any ties that still exist shall be broken by a coin flip.

[YardRat]

Current league standings...

http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=league

[YardRat]

1. Indy - Luck
2. Min - Kahil
3. STL - Blackmon
4. Jax - Clairborne
5. Cle - Barkley
6. TB - Reiff
7. Was - Griffin
8. Car - Floyd
9. Mia - Devon Still
10. Buf -

Who would you take my 5 are below in order of who I want with this draft:
1. Coples
2. Martin
3. Kirkpatrick
4. Upshaw
5. DeCastro

I like Kirkpatrick and Upshaw...

[better days]

Even though they have Gabbert?

Once again, for the tiebreakers...

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING

Clubs not participating in the playoffs shall select in the first through 20th positions in reverse standings order.
The Super Bowl winner is last and Super Bowl loser is next-to-last.
The losers of the Conference Championship games shall select 29th and 30th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Divisional playoff games shall select 25th through 28th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
The losers of the Wild Card games shall select 21st through 24th based on won-lost-tied percentage.If ties exist in any grouping except (2) above, such ties shall be broken by strength-of-schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength-of-schedule, the divisional or conference tie-breakers, if applicable, shall be applied. Any ties that still exist shall be broken by a coin flip.

Yes, the new regime will have no ties to Gabbert & he has looked terrible this year.

[Mike13]

I think it is just STUPID that one team can lose to another TWICE, finish behind them in the division & still draft behind that team. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

Head to head wins and losses has never mattered in Draft Order.

[Philagape]

Kirkpatrick

Yeah like we need another guy with -patrick in his name!! :rolleyes:







DISCLAIMER: This post is satirical commentary on BillsZone logic

[Mike13]

If the Dolphins dont trade up for a QB I can see us drafting a FS in the first.

[Ed]

I've been looking for SOS for the last few weeks now.
Could you post the link where you found that on ESPN?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs/sort/conferenceRank/order/false

espn's playoff standings show SOS.

[better days]

Head to head wins and losses has never mattered in Draft Order.

I'm saying that it SHOULD matter.

[Ed]

I think it is just STUPID that one team can lose to another TWICE, finish behind them in the division & still draft behind that team. That makes NO sense whatsoever.
Yeah it would suck to get swept by the fins and have them pick ahead of us, but that's the way it's always been. It makes sense that they do it that way too if you think about it. Let's say you have a bunch of teams with the same record at the end of the season. You can't really use playoff tie-breakers. The only really fair way to do it is by SOS.

[Ed]

I'm saying that it SHOULD matter.
It does matter if SOS is tied. If Buffalo and Miami finish with the same SOS then Buffalo would pick ahead of Miami.

[better days]

It does matter if SOS is tied. If Buffalo and Miami finish with the same SOS then Buffalo would pick ahead of Miami.

Well, I think head to head should be the first consideration, then SOS could be used for tiebreakers.

[SABURZFAN]

Well, I think head to head should be the first consideration, then SOS could be used for tiebreakers.


i think it's obvious that the NFL doesn't care what you think... but you should be used to that in here. :up:

[Ickybaluky]

14 of the opponents of Miami and Buffalo are the same, so strength of schedule is easy to track. The 2 different games decide it.

Miami plays Houston and Cleveland, a combined 14 - 14

Buffalo plays Cincinnati and Tennessee, a combined 15 - 13

The weaker SOS picks first if record is the same, so Miami has the edge. If they finish with the same record and SOS, Buffalo would pick first because it would go to the divisional tie-breakers.

Thus, you need Houston and Cleveland to win games while Cincinnati and Tennessee lose games over the last 2 weeks (assuming they finish with the same record).

[paladin warrior]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/988602-2012-nfl-mock-draft-matt-barkley-and-top-eligible-juniors-whove-yet-to-declare


<table border="0" width="400"><thead><tr><th scope="col">Player, Pos.</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>1.</td><td>Indianapolis Colts (1-13)</td><td>Andrew Luck, QB</td></tr><tr><td>2.</td><td>St. Louis Rams (2-12)</td><td>Justin Blackmon, WR</td></tr><tr><td>3.</td><td>Minnesota Vikings (2-12)</td><td>Matt Kalil, OT</td></tr><tr><td>4.</td><td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-10)</td><td>Morris Claiborne, CB</td></tr><tr><td>5.</td><td>Jacksonville Jaguars (4-10)</td><td>Matt Barkley, QB</td></tr><tr><td>6.</td><td>Cleveland Browns (4-10)</td><td>Trent Richardson, RB</td></tr><tr><td>7.</td><td>Buffalo Bills (5-9)
</td><td>Michael Floyd, WR
</td></tr><tr><td>8.</td><td>Miami Dolphins (5-9)</td><td>Robert Griffin III, QB</td></tr><tr><td>9.</td><td>Washington Redskins (5-9)</td><td>Landry Jones, QB</td></tr><tr><td>10.</td><td>Carolina Panthers (5-9)
</td><td>Quinton Coples, DE</td></tr><tr><td>11.</td><td>Philadelphia Eagles (6-8)</td><td>Alshon Jeffery, WR</td></tr><tr><td>12.</td><td>Kansas City Chiefs (6-8)</td><td>Riley Reiff, OT
</td></tr><tr><td>13.</td><td>Seattle Seahawks (7-7)
</td><td>Dre Kirkpatrick, CB</td></tr><tr><td>14.</td><td>San Diego Chargers (7-7)
</td><td>Alfonzo Dennard, CB</td></tr><tr><td>15.</td><td>Arizona Cardinals (7-7)
</td><td>Jonathan Martin, OT</td></tr><tr><td>16.</td><td>Tennessee Titans (7-7)</td><td>Vontaze Burfict, LB</td></tr><tr><td>17.</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals (via OAK) (7-7)</td><td>Lamar Miller, RB</td></tr><tr><td>18.</td><td>Chicago Bears (7-7)
</td><td>Peter Konz, C</td></tr><tr><td>19.</td><td>New York Giants (7-7)
</td><td>Devon Still, DT </td></tr><tr><td>20.</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals (8-6)</td><td>Janoris Jenkins, CB</td></tr><tr><td>21.</td><td>New York Jets (8-6)</td><td>Luke Kuechly, LB</td></tr><tr><td>22.</td><td>Detroit Lions (9-5)</td><td>David DeCastro, OG
</td></tr><tr><td>23.</td><td>Denver Broncos (8-6)</td><td>Brandon Thompson, DT </td></tr><tr><td>24.</td><td>Cleveland Browns (via ATL) (9-5)</td><td>Jarvis Jones, LB</td></tr><tr><td>25.</td><td>Houston Texans (10-4)</td><td>Mark Barron, S</td></tr><tr><td>26.</td><td>Baltimore Ravens (10-4)</td><td>Dont'a Hightower, LB
</td></tr><tr><td>27.</td><td>Dallas Cowboys (8-6)</td><td>Zach Brown, LB</td></tr><tr><td>28.</td><td>New England (via NO) (11-3)</td><td>Chase Minnifield, CB</td></tr><tr><td>29.</td><td>Pittsburgh Steelers (10-3)</td><td>Courtney Upshaw, DE</td></tr><tr><td>30.</td><td>San Francisco 49ers (10-3)</td><td>Kendall Wright, WR</td></tr><tr><td>31.</td><td>New England Patriots (11-3)</td><td>Mohamed Sanu, WR</td></tr><tr><td>32.</td><td>Green Bay Packers (13-1)</td><td>Cordy Glenn, OG </td></tr></tbody></table>

[mjt328]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs/sort/conferenceRank/order/false

espn's playoff standings show SOS.

Thank you.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

i always thought head to head was first tiebreaker

[Ed]

Well, I think head to head should be the first consideration, then SOS could be used for tiebreakers.
Head to head doesn't work though if you have multiple teams. Let's say Buffalo, Miami and Philly all finish with the same record. Miami beat Buffalo, Buffalo beat Philly, but Philly beat Miami. So who picks ahead of who?

[TacklingDummy]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/988602-2012-nfl-mock-draft-matt-barkley-and-top-eligible-juniors-whove-yet-to-declare


<table border="0" width="400"><thead><tr><th scope="col">Player, Pos.</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>1.</td><td>Indianapolis Colts (1-13)</td><td>Andrew Luck, QB</td></tr><tr><td>2.</td><td>St. Louis Rams (2-12)</td><td>Justin Blackmon, WR</td></tr><tr><td>3.</td><td>Minnesota Vikings (2-12)</td><td>Matt Kalil, OT</td></tr><tr><td>4.</td><td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-10)</td><td>Morris Claiborne, CB</td></tr><tr><td>5.</td><td>Jacksonville Jaguars (4-10)</td><td>Matt Barkley, QB</td></tr><tr><td>6.</td><td>Cleveland Browns (4-10)</td><td>Trent Richardson, RB</td></tr><tr><td>7.</td><td>Buffalo Bills (5-9)
</td><td>Michael Floyd, WR
</td></tr><tr><td>8.</td><td>Miami Dolphins (5-9)</td><td>Robert Griffin III, QB</td></tr><tr><td>9.</td><td>Washington Redskins (5-9)</td><td>Landry Jones, QB</td></tr><tr><td>10.</td><td>Carolina Panthers (5-9)
</td><td>Quinton Coples, DE</td></tr><tr><td>11.</td><td>Philadelphia Eagles (6-8)</td><td>Alshon Jeffery, WR</td></tr><tr><td>12.</td><td>Kansas City Chiefs (6-8)</td><td>Riley Reiff, OT
</td></tr><tr><td>13.</td><td>Seattle Seahawks (7-7)
</td><td>Dre Kirkpatrick, CB</td></tr><tr><td>14.</td><td>San Diego Chargers (7-7)
</td><td>Alfonzo Dennard, CB</td></tr><tr><td>15.</td><td>Arizona Cardinals (7-7)
</td><td>Jonathan Martin, OT</td></tr><tr><td>16.</td><td>Tennessee Titans (7-7)</td><td>Vontaze Burfict, LB</td></tr><tr><td>17.</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals (via OAK) (7-7)</td><td>Lamar Miller, RB</td></tr><tr><td>18.</td><td>Chicago Bears (7-7)
</td><td>Peter Konz, C</td></tr><tr><td>19.</td><td>New York Giants (7-7)
</td><td>Devon Still, DT </td></tr><tr><td>20.</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals (8-6)</td><td>Janoris Jenkins, CB</td></tr><tr><td>21.</td><td>New York Jets (8-6)</td><td>Luke Kuechly, LB</td></tr><tr><td>22.</td><td>Detroit Lions (9-5)</td><td>David DeCastro, OG
</td></tr><tr><td>23.</td><td>Denver Broncos (8-6)</td><td>Brandon Thompson, DT </td></tr><tr><td>24.</td><td>Cleveland Browns (via ATL) (9-5)</td><td>Jarvis Jones, LB</td></tr><tr><td>25.</td><td>Houston Texans (10-4)</td><td>Mark Barron, S</td></tr><tr><td>26.</td><td>Baltimore Ravens (10-4)</td><td>Dont'a Hightower, LB
</td></tr><tr><td>27.</td><td>Dallas Cowboys (8-6)</td><td>Zach Brown, LB</td></tr><tr><td>28.</td><td>New England (via NO) (11-3)</td><td>Chase Minnifield, CB</td></tr><tr><td>29.</td><td>Pittsburgh Steelers (10-3)</td><td>Courtney Upshaw, DE</td></tr><tr><td>30.</td><td>San Francisco 49ers (10-3)</td><td>Kendall Wright, WR</td></tr><tr><td>31.</td><td>New England Patriots (11-3)</td><td>Mohamed Sanu, WR</td></tr><tr><td>32.</td><td>Green Bay Packers (13-1)</td><td>Cordy Glenn, OG </td></tr></tbody></table>

If the Bills pass on Griffin... I don't know what I'll do.

[BillsFever21]

A couple lucky wins gave us an exciting start to the season but it will cost us somebody like Matt Barkley when it comes time to draft in April.

We are one of the worse teams in the league. We are barely better then the Rams and probably about the same as the Vikings if that. I doubt we could even beat the Colts right now. Especially if it was in Indy.

We also probably wouldn't have committed so much money to Fitzpatrick in the process too because Nix probably wouldn't have jumped the gun. It also might give Wilson and them a false sense of hope that Nix and Gailey have some potential and we will end up being stuck with them for at least another year instead of finding a real GM and coach to run this team.

The wins were exciting but we are definitely one of the worse 5 teams in the league and are not even any better then last season. This team has regressed let alone progressed.

[LtFinFan66]

1. Indy - Luck
2. Min - Kahil
3. STL - Blackmon
4. Jax - Clairborne
5. Cle - Barkley
6. TB - Reiff
7. Was - Griffin
8. Car - Floyd
9. Mia - Devon Still
10. Buf -

Who would you take my 5 are below in order of who I want with this draft:
1. Coples
2. Martin
3. Kirkpatrick
4. Upshaw
5. DeCastroNo way the Dolphins take a DT

[cgbm]

anyone that thinks we need matt barkley needs to take another look.

he is not worth a top ten pick. much less a first round pick.

im a bit scared of rg3 also. hes a good player but he was never really tested in that conference. oklahoma and ok st were the only teams that were really good. and ok st has no defence.
again he is a good player who has alot of accolades but lacks size to go with his speed. what he looks like to me is a weaker, smaller, cam newton.
cam newton is so awesome for alot of things, one of the biggest is his size. and RG3 doesnt have it. he weighs 220lbs. a 250 - 270 lb lb,de will destroy him in a quick second.

fact is he has alot of risk and i dont see much reward in him. huge potential to bust. and i think he will.

we need a qb bad. and i think we all know that. now what are the options?

as far as taking floyd, i have always liked him, hes big, and a playmaker (on a team who cant make plays). hes a little slow at 4.54 but quick enough to play on our team. he has the size and skill we need in a no.1 wr. I LIKE HIM.

[TigerJ]

I do know SOS is the first tiebreaker for non-playoff teams. After that I'm not real sure, but they may go straight to a coin flip. I don't expect Buffalo to win versus Denver or NE, and I do expect one or two of the other five win teams will win at least on more.

Thus, I think Buffalo will be picking eighth or ninth. There is an outside chance Buffalo gets a crack at RG3. Miami will almost certainly go with a QB if one of the top 3 are still there when they pick, as will Washington. Jacksonville is very much up in the air regarding QB. Gabbert was a first round pick and he struggled, but the new coach, whoever that turns out to be, could conceivably decide he struggled because the talent around him was lousy. We know Cleveland has lousy skill position players on offense, and that makes whoever is playing QB look bad. Thus, it's possible Cleveland gives McCoy another chance. So, to me it looks like either Miami or Washington has to win one more game for Buffalo to get a crack at RG3. Personally, I think Barkley would probably appeal to Shanahan in Washington more than RG3.

[better days]

Head to head doesn't work though if you have multiple teams. Let's say Buffalo, Miami and Philly all finish with the same record. Miami beat Buffalo, Buffalo beat Philly, but Philly beat Miami. So who picks ahead of who?

Good point.

[djjimkelly]

anyone that thinks we need matt barkley needs to take another look.

he is not worth a top ten pick. much less a first round pick.

im a bit scared of rg3 also. hes a good player but he was never really tested in that conference. oklahoma and ok st were the only teams that were really good. and ok st has no defence.
again he is a good player who has alot of accolades but lacks size to go with his speed. what he looks like to me is a weaker, smaller, cam newton.
cam newton is so awesome for alot of things, one of the biggest is his size. and RG3 doesnt have it. he weighs 220lbs. a 250 - 270 lb lb,de will destroy him in a quick second.

fact is he has alot of risk and i dont see much reward in him. huge potential to bust. and i think he will.

we need a qb bad. and i think we all know that. now what are the options?

as far as taking floyd, i have always liked him, hes big, and a playmaker (on a team who cant make plays). hes a little slow at 4.54 but quick enough to play on our team. he has the size and skill we need in a no.1 wr. I LIKE HIM.


landry jones

[better days]

anyone that thinks we need matt barkley needs to take another look.

he is not worth a top ten pick. much less a first round pick.

im a bit scared of rg3 also. hes a good player but he was never really tested in that conference. oklahoma and ok st were the only teams that were really good. and ok st has no defence.
again he is a good player who has alot of accolades but lacks size to go with his speed. what he looks like to me is a weaker, smaller, cam newton.
cam newton is so awesome for alot of things, one of the biggest is his size. and RG3 doesnt have it. he weighs 220lbs. a 250 - 270 lb lb,de will destroy him in a quick second.

fact is he has alot of risk and i dont see much reward in him. huge potential to bust. and i think he will.

we need a qb bad. and i think we all know that. now what are the options?

as far as taking floyd, i have always liked him, hes big, and a playmaker (on a team who cant make plays). hes a little slow at 4.54 but quick enough to play on our team. he has the size and skill we need in a no.1 wr. I LIKE HIM.

You may be right about both Barkley & RGIII but as much as the Bills could use a WR, they need a QB & OLBs much more than a WR IMO.

It is much easier to find a good receiver or RB in the middle rounds than a OLB. That is the position I would like to see the Bills target in rnd one if one of the top three QB prospects is not there when the Bills pick.

There have been MANY high rnd QBs that have busted & some like Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees & Tom Brady that fall through the cracks of the draft.

The good news is mistakes are much less costly with the new rookie cap. If the Bills draft a QB in the 1st & he sucks, it is much easier today to move on than it used to be.

[psubills62]

Pretty solid though I don't think Miami goes back to PSU for Still after the disaster Odrick has been. They could take a guy like Coples or Upshaw though.
Disaster? Odrick isn't exactly a star, but I'd have a very hard time saying he's a disaster. Though I do agree that they won't grab Still.

I just want to say that regarding the draft overall, I'm 99.9% certain the Bills will draft a CB within our top two picks. Just my opinion based on our needs and Buddy Nix's draft history.

[TacklingDummy]

If 1 of the top 3 Qb's is not there, draft the best DE, Cb, or Lb available.

[tampabay25690]

i thought there is discussion in cleveland to stick with mccoy and give him some tools. if that happens, does griffin fall to us, or does barkley become our guy?

what are the pro's and cons in that hypothetical mccoy situation?

I think that may happen.
Lets face it McCoy has no weapons at all....
They should draft a playmaker and let 1 of the top QB'S fall to us...

[cgbm]

landry jones

very good idea.

i have liked him this year.

previous years i thought he wasnt very good. (last year, and the year bradford went out) but then again alot of that is in the fact that he didnt get many runs with the first o. well at least some of it.

but he looks pretty good this year.

he has a pretty quick release, GREAT SIZE (6-5), and plays well under pressure (wich we all know our qb is going to have pressure. hahha)

landry is a great option. and if luck busts like i think he really may, jones will be the best qb in this draft in my mind.

lets not forget to mention that out of all the qbs coming out this year that are potential first rounders, he is the only one that had a tough schedule, in and out of conference, he is the only one with big wins against high ranked teams.

[cgbm]

You may be right about both Barkley & RGIII but as much as the Bills could use a WR, they need a QB & OLBs much more than a WR IMO.

It is much easier to find a good receiver or RB in the middle rounds than a OLB. That is the position I would like to see the Bills target in rnd one if one of the top three QB prospects is not there when the Bills pick.

There have been MANY high rnd QBs that have busted & some like Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees & Tom Brady that fall through the cracks of the draft.

The good news is mistakes are much less costly with the new rookie cap. If the Bills draft a QB in the 1st & he sucks, it is much easier today to move on than it used to be.

i will never say that we need any position more than we need a qb.

our d isnt very good, but if we get a 2nd round cb or lb i think we can play. dont forget that williams was out for most the year. and next year he should play well.

WE NEED A QB. WE HAVE NEEDED A QB FOR A LONG TIME, AND UNLESS WE DRAFT ONE NOW, WE WILL NEED ONE NEXT YEAR.

[DesertFox24]

i will never say that we need any position more than we need a qb.

our d isnt very good, but if we get a 2nd round cb or lb i think we can play. dont forget that williams was out for most the year. and next year he should play well.

WE NEED A QB. WE HAVE NEEDED A QB FOR A LONG TIME, AND UNLESS WE DRAFT ONE NOW, WE WILL NEED ONE NEXT YEAR.

I am not sure that is completely accurate. Fitz was great the first 8 weeks of the season, and then got worse after Woods injury. I am not saying that is the reason, but everyone can agree he is getting a lot more pressure now and pressure up the middle.

That being said they gave him a big deal and he will be unquestioned starter next year. We will draft a qb later though because of Smiths full time move to WR.

Hopefully with the new defensive players we have a middle of the league defense that is good enough to be a playoff defense.

Fitz gets 2012 to either sink or swim as far as I am concerned.

Hopefully the full offseason can keep us healthier. We have had way to many critical injuries.

Kyle, Woods, WRs (falling like flies), LT revolving door, OLB, corner.

[cgbm]

hahahahah classic answer.

its the same thing every year on here.

"we have to give him another chance"

"give him just one more year"

when does 5-11 record become not good enough for one more year.
i guess our standards are really low.

and to watch the games all year and see his horrible decisions, passes, and defence reading. yet still try to place any blame on the ol injuries is just bad.

im not going to win this argument with you or anyone else that feels the same as you.

but i would like to point out that i said the same thing last year. and everyone said. "there are no qbs worthy of the no3 pick in this draft"

as far as im concerned cam and andy both have played better than fitz this year. and when these two games play out, they will have WON more games too.

so we need to quit giving mediocrity more chances. he STINKS. and we need to move on

[DesertFox24]

hahahahah classic answer.

its the same thing every year on here.

"we have to give him another chance"

"give him just one more year"

when does 5-11 record become not good enough for one more year.
i guess our standards are really low.

and to watch the games all year and see his horrible decisions, passes, and defence reading. yet still try to place any blame on the ol injuries is just bad.

im not going to win this argument with you or anyone else that feels the same as you.

but i would like to point out that i said the same thing last year. and everyone said. "there are no qbs worthy of the no3 pick in this draft"

as far as im concerned cam and andy both have played better than fitz this year. and when these two games play out, they will have WON more games too.

so we need to quit giving mediocrity more chances. he STINKS. and we need to move on

LOL if we had not given him a 6 year deal then yes we draft a QB.

I want Ralph to spend money but that would be dumb.

Also the defense has played bad with the exception of last week which was arguable their best game.

[DesertFox24]

hahahahah classic answer.

its the same thing every year on here.

"we have to give him another chance"

"give him just one more year"

when does 5-11 record become not good enough for one more year.
i guess our standards are really low.

and to watch the games all year and see his horrible decisions, passes, and defence reading. yet still try to place any blame on the ol injuries is just bad.

im not going to win this argument with you or anyone else that feels the same as you.

but i would like to point out that i said the same thing last year. and everyone said. "there are no qbs worthy of the no3 pick in this draft"

as far as im concerned cam and andy both have played better than fitz this year. and when these two games play out, they will have WON more games too.

so we need to quit giving mediocrity more chances. he STINKS. and we need to move on

Also I am not debating Fitz is a super bowl winning QB, because I agree he is not. The only way he wins a super bowl is if we have the Raven defense of 2002.

We had no shot at Cam and would have taken Cam if he was available Buddy pretty much said so.

Andy Dalton was a guy I liked and wanted in the second round, but that was before we paid Fitz that huge money.

Hopefully Buddy and Chan are smarter than us and are correct for giving Fitz that money, and if they are wrong I hope the rectify in the 2013 draft.

However, the biggest issue on this team is not the offense because for 10 games this year they played well enough to win. The defense has zero pass rush and can not stop the run, and can not get three and outs or stop TDs in the red zone.

This has put our offense in bad positions and has caused our offense to have to press more than we did early in the season when we were getting turnovers all the time, and then we scored TDs and forced the other team to press.

Look I agree with you this season has sucked and Fitz is probably not the guy, but we need to fix this defense and when we fix our defense I think we will be a lot better.

Look what the jets have done with a running game and great defense and their QB is worse than fitz.

[k-oneputt]

Doesn't matter. They can dump Fitz after next year.
Fitz isn't good enough. That should be clear to everyone by now.

Barkley, Griffen, or Jones. One of those three will be available. It's time to build around a real prospect.

[k-oneputt]

Rd. 1 - qb
Then they need two olb's if they are going to play a 3-4 next year.
Then the db.

[cgbm]

Also I am not debating Fitz is a super bowl winning QB, because I agree he is not. The only way he wins a super bowl is if we have the Raven defense of 2002.

We had no shot at Cam and would have taken Cam if he was available Buddy pretty much said so.

Andy Dalton was a guy I liked and wanted in the second round, but that was before we paid Fitz that huge money.

Hopefully Buddy and Chan are smarter than us and are correct for giving Fitz that money, and if they are wrong I hope the rectify in the 2013 draft.

However, the biggest issue on this team is not the offense because for 10 games this year they played well enough to win. The defense has zero pass rush and can not stop the run, and can not get three and outs or stop TDs in the red zone.

This has put our offense in bad positions and has caused our offense to have to press more than we did early in the season when we were getting turnovers all the time, and then we scored TDs and forced the other team to press.

Look I agree with you this season has sucked and Fitz is probably not the guy, but we need to fix this defense and when we fix our defense I think we will be a lot better.

Look what the jets have done with a running game and great defense and their QB is worse than fitz.

i agree.

except.....

there are no prospects in this draft at defense that will be an immediate answer and put us in that 2002 ravens d. or any great d for that matter.

but there are prospects at qb that could give us that edge at o that pushes us over the top and plays well enough to win despite our d.

btw our d is better than last year in alot of ways. our pass d is ranked 18th this year according to espn. and our rush d isnt last in the league.

so we are making changes and if we draft a few players PAST RD.1 we should be even better. not to mention the return of two marquee rookies (darius and williams) that will be all that much better.

fact is.... we both agree fitz isnt tha answer. we need a qb and i think everyone HAS TO AGREE that the best chance for a elite qb is in the first round and early. this is our second year in a row with a pick that has us in position to draft one of 3 top tier qbs. arguably 4.

we have to take one.

[cgbm]

btw we can just cut fitz and take the hit. but not pay him the rediculous money for 6 years as a back up.

[DraftBoy]

Rd. 1 - qb
Then they need two olb's if they are going to play a 3-4 next year.
Then the db.

You're asking a lot of any QB to perform without outside help or line help.

[k-oneputt]

You're asking a lot of any QB to perform without outside help or line help.

You gotta start somewhere and I know you can't win w/o a qb.

Start with Fitz next season then go to the new qb. Kinda like what Tenn. is doing with Locker.

[better days]

You're asking a lot of any QB to perform without outside help or line help.

Well, I'm glad to see you defending Tebow.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I'm glad to see you defending Tebow.

Huh?

[DraftBoy]

You gotta start somewhere and I know you can't win w/o a qb.

Start with Fitz next season then go to the new qb. Kinda like what Tenn. is doing with Locker.

Im not opposed to the idea just saying its asking a lot. Don't forget Tennessee has a very good OL, and had Kenny Britt.

[DesertFox24]

i agree.

except.....

there are no prospects in this draft at defense that will be an immediate answer and put us in that 2002 ravens d. or any great d for that matter.

but there are prospects at qb that could give us that edge at o that pushes us over the top and plays well enough to win despite our d.

btw our d is better than last year in alot of ways. our pass d is ranked 18th this year according to espn. and our rush d isnt last in the league.

so we are making changes and if we draft a few players PAST RD.1 we should be even better. not to mention the return of two marquee rookies (darius and williams) that will be all that much better.

fact is.... we both agree fitz isnt tha answer. we need a qb and i think everyone HAS TO AGREE that the best chance for a elite qb is in the first round and early. this is our second year in a row with a pick that has us in position to draft one of 3 top tier qbs. arguably 4.

we have to take one.

Way to early to determine no defense studs yet.

Aldon Smith was a bottom of the first round guy this point last year. Heck so was Cam Time

[cgbm]

Way to early to determine no defense studs yet.

Aldon Smith was a bottom of the first round guy this point last year. Heck so was Cam Time

no its never to early to state that there isnt a stud out there in ncaa that will turn this team around.

there could be a qb.

i had this same argument last year and it seems like im about to have it again.......

you HAVE TO HAVE a great qb to be a great team EVERY year.

i know were just looking for one year at this point. but there are options just about every year at qb in the draft that become that elite player.

CAN WE PLEASE GET ONE ONCE.

I PROMISE I WILL SHUT UP IF WE DO....

[better days]

Huh?

Your previous post I replyed to describes the situation Tebow is in to a T....ebow.

[tampabay25690]

If 1 of the top 3 Qb's is not there, draft the best DE, Cb, or Lb available.

Cant disagree with you on that